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Borges Take On Pacman/Mayweather Debacle
By Ron Borges
First understand this – there is no high ground here in this argument over blood tests and performance enhancing drugs. Some ground is lower than others but there is no one standing for purity or righteousness or even for the good of boxing. This is an argument about one of two things or maybe both but nothing else – it is about power and gamesmanship.
The rest, all of it from both sides, is smoke and mirrors and boxing bullshit designed to confuse the public but if the people representing Floyd Mayweather, Jr. and Manny Pacquiao aren’t careful what they are going to succeed in doing is what they’ve done so many times in the past – they’ll turn the public off to the point that a great spectacle will become just another example of how the suits who have run the sport into the ground continue to throw a little more dirt on the coffin every chance they get.
On the surface the issue is about performance enhancing drugs and Floyd Mayweather, Jr.’s alleged insistence that both he and Manny Pacquiao agree to random blood tests right up to the day of the fight. Mayweather’s father has insisted Pacquiao is a drug cheat but has offered not one scintilla of evidence to prove it except that he knocked his fighter, Ricky Hatton, cold in two rounds. That was not a blood test. That was a beating administered by one class of fighter to another several rungs below him.
Now it is Golden Boy Promotions, who represent Mayweather in these negotiations, that is insisting on random blood tests for PEDs. That they are the ones demanding this is laughable because little more than a year ago they were on the other side of the issue and saying nearly the same words Pacquiao’s promoter, Bob Arum, is now using to refuse such testing when Zab Judah demanded it before fighting GBP’s Shane Mosley.
The only difference is Mosley had already admitted using PEDS, albeit claiming unknowingly. He also was found to be a client of BALCO, the disgraced San Francisco company at the center of the steroid scandal that sent Marion Jones to prison and cast a dark shadow over the baseball accomplishments of Barry Bonds and others.
Yet despite all of that, Richard Schaefer, CEO of Golden Boy, told the Associated Press at the time that while Mosley would agree to any tests required by the Nevada State Athletic Commission “we are not going to do other tests than the Nevada Commission requires. The fact is Shane is not a cheater and he does not need to be treated like one.’’
The facts however argue otherwise. He was a cheater, although he claimed unwittingly so, and he did need to be treated like one but the fight never came off so it didn’t matter until now, where Schaefer and Golden Boy find themselves arguing the exact opposite side while Arum is saying his fighter will adhere to any tests the NSAC wants but does not need to be treated like a cheater.
Arum is right because there is no evidence of Pacquiao using steroids, HGH or other performance enhancing drugs. He has grown from a 106 pound fighter to a world champion at as high as 147 pounds but he is not the first to move up in weight and win and won’t be the last.
Schaefer keeps insisting Golden Boy is not accusing Pacquiao of anything when Mayweather’s father already has and their continued insistence on putting the biggest fight in years in jeopardy over the issue implies they have concerns. In essence, they’re telling the public the fight might not be on the up and up unless drug testing labs are involved. If that’s true, why should they pay $55 or more to watch it?
Meanwhile, Arum and Pacquiao argue he’s willing to be tested when the first press conference is held in January and any time up to 30 days before the fight as well as immediately after it. That sounds reasonable enough unless you know anything about PEDs. If you do you would understand that that much time between the testing and the event would render the tests worthless.
Masking agents and the men and women who create them are already far ahead of the testing agencies. Jones, for example, is one of many dirty athletes who never tested positive. That’s because if you know when the tests are coming and the people around you know what they’re doing you’d have to be an idiot – or James Toney – to get caught.
Toney did get caught after defeating then heavyweight champion John Ruiz, thus vacating his victory and allowing Ruiz to retain the title. In his corner that night was Freddie Roach, Pacquiao’s trainer. There is not one hint of evidence Roach knew a thing about it but it happened any way, the point being only the fighter and his druggist really know what’s going on so the only way to be sure is random testing as close to the event as possible as well as immediately after it.
Pacquiao has claimed he doesn’t want to have blood taken so close to the event yet HBO’s 24/7 show prior to the Hatton fight clearly showed him having blood drawn two weeks before they fought. Apparently his aversion to blood tests so close to a fight is a recent phenomenon.
Arum keeps changing what he’ll agree to, now saying the Pacquiao camp would agree to whatever the Commission says. That may sound noble but NSAC executive director Keith Kizer said during the Judah-Mosley flap that “Our inspectors aren’t qualified or licensed to draw blood.’’ Nevada Athletic Commission rules make no mention of blood testing, using only urine testing which is useless for discovering most forms of PED use because they are so rudimentary.
So he’s agreed to that knowing the NSAC isn’t going to order random blood testing in the final week or two before the fight. There is a question if they could even legally do so if they wanted to because it would require a change in the state regulations, which would need to be approved in advance and there isn’t time enough for that.
If Pacquiao is clean and knows he’s clean why not just agree and be done with it? Well, one could argue the same way Schaefer did for Mosley and much more effectively since unlike Mosley he has no priors and hence deserves the full presumption of innocence.
Then again, if he knows he’s clean, why not just say “Sure, let’s make this the most tested sporting event in history. Let’s be leaders in what has become professional sport’s dirty little secret. Let’s be cleaner than the Olympics, which wouldn’t take much. Let’s be cleaner than baseball and football, which wouldn’t take much. Let’s both be tested right up to the morning of the fight.’’
He could but instead he’s said “I’m willing to be tested as long as they’ll be done at a time when they’ll be meaningless.’’ It is reasonable to ask why but then again it’s just as reasonable to ask why Golden Boy is demanding this testing of a guy never implicated in PED usage after having been so adamantly opposed to it when Mosley, an admitted cheat, was involved.
What it tells me is somebody for some reason doesn’t want the fight. Is it Mayweather? Is it the people around him? Is it Pacquiao? Is it the people around him? No one knows but if it doesn’t happen because of blood testing the public will turn up its nose, close its eyes and return to ignoring a sport that has earned their disinterest by just this kind of stupidity.
The NBA has a gambling scandal with an official and the same day he’s busted Commissioner David Stern is screaming the guy is a rogue official. Every sport works to keep their reputation unsullied. Boxing works at heaping dirt upon itself and one of its greatest ambassador’s – Manny Pacquiao. Why? They can’t help themselves that’s why.
Golden Boy issued a press release on Monday saying if the fight doesn’t come off don’t blame them. They also said “nobody from Team Mayweather or Golden Boy Promotions is accusing Paquiao of anything.’’ That is simply a bald-faced lie. Every one of their actions accuses Pacquiao. It is, as they say in the ghetto, a classic case of throwing a rock and hiding your hand. The guy’s father puts the accusation out there. His promoters then say they’ll call off the biggest fight in boxing history if he Pacquiao won’t agree to random blood testing, which is not required in Nevada, right up until days before the fight.
No, they’re not accusing him of anything. That would take some courage…and a good lawyer. They just put it out there and let it, and him, hang.
But before you canonize Pacquiao and Arum, hold on a minute. They know the testing they have agreed to would be useless in catching anyone using PEDs efficiently to prepare for this fight. It would be less than a take home exam.
They also know if he’ll be clean or not. If he is he could just throw it back in Mayweather’s face and say, “All right Little Floyd, you want blood tests we’ll take blood tests. We’ll take a test two weeks before the fight, a week before the fight, at the weigh-in and then a last one a minute after you wake up from after I knock you stiff.’’
Now that would drive some interest.
In the end who knows how this will go. The money interests in all sides would seem to demand a settlement but Arum claims he’s already making plans for an alternate March 20 fight for Pacquiao against Paulie Malignaggi. Now that’s interesting because Malignaggi long ago accused Pacquiao of using performance enhancing drugs and Bob Arum isn’t threatening him. Maybe that’s because he knows he’s no threat to Manny Pacquiao.
That’s boxing. The theatre of the absurd and a sport that, even on the cusp of one of its brightest moments in years, couldn’t help but sully itself once again.
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uruk-hai:
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the problem with this writer is that he lacks common sense. No offense but really no common sense at all. Seems to be common in ur part of the yard. Pac is willing to abide by set standards. Floyd is making his own standards and is trying to impose them on Pac. So ur saying the set standards in boxing is corrupt and incompetent? Mr Avila again no need to post this... just make sure this borges guy gets to read this. My 18 year old cousin writes better journalism than this judgemental borges.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 01:53:53 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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Ron, I usually disagree with your hyperbole but I am in total agreement here. The suits have once again dug themselves a deep hole. With their heels. And it's Boxing that will suffer.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 01:57:43 PM
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The Saint:
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This is the most balanced article on this matter yet.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:08:58 PM
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SALT lover:
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Actually aside from the few Floyd fans, this writer's the ONLY one with common sense. Exactly, this fight should be the most deepest tested, and not only that but Pacquiao's chance to shut Mayweathers' mouth. The Olympic tests is the ONLY DAMN demand from the Mayweather Camp, the rest has been demanded by the Pacquiao Team (glove size, weight, ring size, date, money, everything). The blood testin's the only thing Floyd wants, and now the World stoppeed spinnin' for that. And then some readers here, and some of the most respected by me, have the crazy nerves to say that this is Floyd tryin' call the shots. How it can possibly be Floyd tryin' to control everythin, when it's the ONLY THIN' he's demandin'?! Like I've been sayin' for the last weks, there's absolutely NO REASON not to take the test if one is clean. And yes, the usual testin' is INCOMPETENT; Shane Mosley, and Roy Jones are the best examples. And Pacquiao's trainer has been linked to illegal stuffs with James Toney and with a female boxer too (Don't remember her name). People here think they know a lot and they dare to write a bunch of nonsense behind a computer, attackin' them, but these guys (Mayweathers) have been in boxing before any of us have been born, and they know what's goin' on there. I was completely shocked the I first read that Pacquiao was not gonna accept the testings, and then I just laughed hard at all the contradictions he made of why not takin' the tests (Scared of needles, "personal superstitions", feelin' weak). And now finally, the last move made by his bosses is a fight with Paul Malignaggi, who also expressed his thinkin' of Pacquiao usin' somethin'. Pacquia FANATICS, fans, and lovers were boastin' their man would take on Mosley, or Bradley, and it's Malgnaggi who he's most likely gonna fight if Pacquiao doesn't accept the testin'. If the tables were turned and it was Pacquiao demandin' Floyd a test, all the bigmouths of TSS would be sayin' exactly that: "Take the test Floyd!", "He must be cheating". But no, it's Pacquiao, fine, he doesn't have to. And if it was Floyd choosin' Malignaggi, again, the attacks would be endless.............................I'm not gonna write anymore to the FANATICS, and to a lot of ignorant who simple have no remedy, and the dumb Floyd haters who write garbage like callin' people "primates" just cuz they are with a different opinion. That's stupid. Anyways, I'm glad at least one writer here knows exactly what's goin' on, and is not biased, like Frank Lotierzo, that people here wanna kiss his feet, all cuz he trashes Floyd in a fancy way. Good job Ron Borges.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:12:35 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Salt:
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Salt, as a friend, let me suggest that you undermine everything else that follows... and lose all if not most of your intended audience... when you begin a post with "Actually aside from the few Floyd fans, this writer's the ONLY one with common sense." I'm serious. Now before you jump back at me, Try it first. Consider it a tip from your corner. And you know as well as I that ... Skills pay the Bills". In boxing and in writing . pc
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:24:49 PM
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The Saint:
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Actually, Mayweather fans do NOT want this fight to happen. They want the negotiations to end here as this will be right up Mayweather fans' alley. They'll win hypothetical fights and that's it. My personal take on this is that Manny's throwing a red herring. At the end of all this, Mayweather would've left himself no room to back out of the fight honorably. After Goldenboy and Mayweather have spent all their time and focus on the bloodtesting issue and Pacquiao actually agrees to it 100%, Mayweather will be trapped and have no place to go but fight.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:25:06 PM
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MisterLee:
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Quite balanced borges, with some great cross-athletic dimensions and using good premises and flow and some scientific and real life cases. I still feel in my heart that Pacquiao is clean. Also, how is directly after the fight not gonna work? Is he somehow gonna clean his blood? Holler!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:31:15 PM
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The Saint:
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The thing is, what matters in the end is getting your desired result. Pacquiao's desired result is to get the elusive Mayweather in the ring with him, regardless of how he manages to do that. Mayweather's and Goldenboy's desired result is to smear Pacquiao's name and hope to raise Mayweather's stock in the process, with no intent to actually fighting Pacquiao. Sure, this matchup is going to be the biggest money-making fight for Goldenboy and Mayweather, but they could easily make as much , if not more, in two or three fights against no risk opponents. Goldenboy and Mayweather have put all their eggs in one basket, and that is the bloodtesting. Once Arum "convinces" Pacquiao to take the tests, it will be over for Mayweather as he would have no way out of this.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:32:07 PM
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mortcola:
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Floyd's demands are unjustified and illegitimate. Pac's demands are standard fight-night negotiating points. There is simply a failure of logic in any defense of GBPs actions. Pac COULD just go along with it. But not to do so is not a moral failing, or an admission of anything other than a refusal to concede to unjustified demands and tolerate guilt-by-gossip defamation. Occam's razor and a little clear reasoning: The simplest answer is the best one, provided that all variables have been considered. GBP went too far with the gossip and the insinuating demands. Pac is under no moral, ethical, athletic obligation to comply, and has chosen not to. In the absence of any evidence (any - need I repeat myself?) that Pac is dirty, then GBPs, and Floyd's and his Daddy's public statements that he must be dirty, and their negotatiating demands, are the fatal flaw in the whole works. It cannot be put on Pac and still make any sense. And, Salt - Frank's not biased. He starts with clarity and judges what he sees. The Mayweather clan are bottom barrel in their behavior - I don't care about their opinions. They foul up a beautiful sport, with the exception of Floyd's beautiful boxing, which almost, but doesn't quite, make up for it. And, Salt - No One has to comply with what Floyd is demanding. No One Ever In Boxing. Got nothin' to do with it being Pac, or kissing his a--. There's no case against him, just public insinuations. If he ever comes up dirty, I'll criticize Pac like I have the others. I'll support a plan to up the testing standards in the sport. But I'll never support bullies and bs-artists. I call it integrity and clear values. So far, that's what Pac's ACTIONS have shown me. Clean until proven dirty, by the standards of the sport - not by Team Mayweather's gossip.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:36:17 PM
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mortcola:
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Deserved props for Borges, who has annoyed the H out of me lately. But, while I question his reasoning on a few points, he's laying out details on both sides that deserve to be considered, and his writing is decent this time.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:37:39 PM
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MisterLee:
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Mortcola is my hero!!!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:39:07 PM
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Robert Curtis:
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Yeah, Ron hass the calmest voice in the room here. But why do I think that if Manny agreed every kind of testing imaginable, Floyd and his pops would find other reasons to squawk and stall?
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:39:13 PM
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The Saint:
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@mortcola: You bring tears of joy in my eyes the same way Bill Pullman did in his speech from "Independence Day." You nailed it right on the head.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:39:26 PM
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MisterLee:
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Floyd is on Steroids! After dominating "6 different weight divisions", he's only passed the crappy state commis. tests. He MUST be guilty! But we all know he'll be clean when he's ready for his "drug tests". Wow classic illogic logic REALLY works!!!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:43:44 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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There is one thing here that is certain. This is a battle for Control. For precisely what end, I cannot say for sure. But, as most of us know, with our wives (and other loved ones) sometimes we just won't do something because the other one wants us to. And vica versa. It doesn't make sense necessarily. Nor is it productive. In fact, it's usually the opposite. And yet we do it. I don't see either Team giving in here. Not now at least. I will be surprised if this fight happens in March..... although I do believe it will happen. After some time to cool. And a visit to a marriage counselor.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:45:24 PM
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MisterLee:
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USING THAT SAME LOGIC, EVERY ATHLETE IS ON STEROIDS! WE NEVER KNOW WITH THOSE CRAPPY STATE RUN TESTS. Paulie Malignaggi is on steroids! But just like Wolverine has reinforced steel in his skeletal structure surgically applied, Paulie has pillows that cover his knuckles when he's angry. Holler!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:45:42 PM
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MisterLee:
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In other news, watching the Mayweather Judah fight on good quality for the first time. 58 punches in 2 rounds for mayweather. With that low punch output he ain't gonna hang with pacquiao's speed and power punching for sure!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:48:19 PM
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Fe'Roz @ TSS Brothers:
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I want to officially put forward Mortcola's name as candidate for ROTY, 2010. Keep it coming my friend. You're a pleasure to read.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:50:16 PM
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MisterLee:
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B-sug, the saint, yuvie, ultimo shogun are on my ballot for' sure!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:59:17 PM
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MisterLee:
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And dr1r142 and blue4cor fo' sure!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 02:59:53 PM
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SALT lover@Fe'ROZ:
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No, no, there's no jumpin' back at you, dude. I appreaciate the advice and all. But it's the Truth, man. I'm not tryin' to be a writer, nor much less tryin' to get audience. Being on the Floyd Mayweather side by itself alone takes away audience. If I was a Pacquiao fan and on his side, and it Pacquiao whom I be kissin' his feet, it would be me and not mortcola whom you name for TSS ROTY 2010. I'm here to wirte the Truth, and that's what my comment is full of. It's not what people wanna read, but it is what it is. When the time comes, when Floyd does somethin' wrong, then I write the Truth. And I was prepared to write it when Pacquiao had taken the tests and resulted negative, I was already prepared to say how bad that made the Mayweathers look and all. But he didn't. Don't worry about writin' to me how you feel. You're the only Floyd antagonizer here that write with sense, even though sometimes you lose when Floyd is on topic. Latezzzzz....
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 03:07:36 PM
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SALT lover:
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sometimes you lose when....
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 03:08:45 PM
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SALT lover:
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sometimes you IT lose when.......(damn)
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 03:09:23 PM
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mortcola@mybudshere:
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Thanks for the kind words. I love this sport, and I LOVE having TSS to dig into it with my fellow leatherheads. As for the Bill Pullman thing, Saint - Love that speech! But I'd rather be Will Smith dragging alien a--- across the sand. You're obsessed with the fat lady...
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 03:15:13 PM
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Jason:
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“I’ll take any random test requested — blood, urine, even the SATs. My name is Timothy Bradley, not Milton Bradley and I’m not playing games. I’m ready to fight in March, April or May next year.” Kudos to Timothy Bradley! SALT lover, those are good points, and there's no doubt, you're in the VAST minority here as a Floyd guy (I'm neither Floyd nor Pacquiao, just a boxing fan that would like the fight to come off, although I'd rather see Mosley-Pacquiao). The Mayweather camp has succeeded beyond their wildest dreams in that people are now saying, "What does Manny have to hide? Why doesn't he want to take the test that almost certainly CANNOT be beaten? Unless and until Pacquiao agrees to the stringent testing, he will bear the stench of steroids (not by me, per se, but by many in the public). Again, Floyd hit a grand slam here, no question.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 03:39:23 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Salt:
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Well said. And heard. Now touch gloves..and let's get back to hatin' !! Just foolin'.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 03:41:05 PM
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The Saint:
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@Jason: Mayweather only hit the "grandslam" if his intention is to look for a halfway valid reason to not have to fight Pacquiao. It's a double-edged sword. On one hand, he did succeed in smearing Pacquiao's name, but in doing so, it provides more ammo for Pacquiao's lawsuit.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 03:57:20 PM
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SALT lover@Fe'ROZ:
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XD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Aaight, man.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 04:12:43 PM
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Robert Curtis:
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TSS is getting like the Oscars & Golden Globes what with all these lovefests and everyone giving each other nominations and awards.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 04:15:18 PM
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mortcola:
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I'd like to pummel, I mean, thank the academy...
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 04:22:26 PM
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MisterLee:
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It comes down to two things that lead to one word: B E L I E F. 1.) Does Floyd believe another human being can do what Manny did? Can another human being top what Floyd has done/does (second quest. is insinuation). 2.) Does Floyd Believe he can actually beat Manny? ... All roads to negotiations lead to those two questions... the rest is academic. Holler!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 04:24:43 PM
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MisterLee:
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*cue music...*
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 04:25:29 PM
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@mr lee:
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IS SUCKING AND KISSING UP YOUR BEST TALENT, GEEZ
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 04:28:59 PM
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Solo:
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Like I said way back when the fight negotiations were announced. "I have a funny feeling about this one". Meaning, I don't think the fight is going to happen, at least not soon, if at all. And to the fellow posters, thanks for keeping my days interesting, some of you dudes really know your stuff. You know who you are.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 04:36:10 PM
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Jason @ The Saint:
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I think that is Floyd's intention (avoiding Pacquiao). Again, look at his record. He hasn't fought a legitimate, dangerous guy (or a guy that wasn't handpicked and/or undersized) since December 7, 2002, in his rematch with Castillo. Floyd is risk-averse. Even his most ardent supporters would acknowledge that. As for his hitting a grandslam, just look at the press. 7 of the last 8 articles on TSS have dealt with the Pacquiao PED's subject. ESPN and CNNSI are heavily covering it. Hell, even the New York Times has had 4 articles on the subject this week. The average, mainstream boxing fan doesn't pull up TSS as soon as his computer boots up. He reads the stuff on the aforementioned sites, and he asks himself, "What is Pacquiao hiding? Why won't he submit to the strictest, masking agent-proof tests out there?" He probably concludes that Pacquiao is taking PED's. That's where Floyd hit the grandslam. He started the rumor and it has now risen to a Tiger Woods-esque crescendo in the boxing world. As for the libel suit, we'll see what happens, but I think Floyd probably has the dough to handle that (although I'm aware of the rumors that he has big-time money/IRS problems). Oh, and one last thing, do you know who Floyd is targeting if this fight falls through? None other than Matthew Hatton. Yes, Matthew Hatton. Matthew Hatton. A win over Ricky's brother would do wonders for his legacy and help shed the notion that he's unwilling to fight the best.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 04:46:09 PM
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Radam G - up early n da morning eatin & drinkin steroids -- I mean Pinoy food and juice:
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OMG! This breakfast of manak adoba, mga itlog ng pato, maya-maya, ubod, malagkit, tsa,kpe and tuba have given me so much whup-arse that Floyd nut suckas would accuse me of doing the steroid thing. What a bunch of ______ ______! The game has dropped from being the scum-sucking theatre of the unexpected to the seedy one "of the absurd."By George, da blooy ole superfightwriter is spot on. Paulie Malignaggi just sd in an interview that PacMan would knock Money May out. Holla!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 04:57:57 PM
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Jason:
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What Floyd should do is challenge Pavlik for the middleweight title now that this fight is dead. He should NOT fight
Matthew Hatton. As for fighting KP, yes, I know, he's too small, he'd be giving up too many advantages, etc. But Sugar Ray Robinson wasn't too small to move from welterweight to middleweight. And he also wasn't too small to fight for the light heavyweight title (he retired on his stool after the 13th round due to heat exhaustion; SRR weighed 157 1/2 to Joey Maxim's 173, NO CATCHWEIGHT). The list of welterweights that moved to middleweight is too long to list here, so to consider it preposterous is wrong.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 04:58:32 PM
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MisterLee:
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Man, I bet some crow that Manny will beat Floyd in and out of the ring! He's 2-0 agst. two of the biggest superstars in boxing: Hatton and Cotto. If he negotiates and navigates another victory, and grant you, Floyd is QUITE an opponent outside of the ring whether I agree with him or not, I'll put Pacquiao as an ATG negotiator. May 2nd, Pacquiao got the bigger share AND entered the ring 2nd despite not being the world title holder at jr. welter. Manny basically did some peek-a-boo defense and then saw what Golden Boy and Mayweather throw out and empty their ammo, then he countered like no other. Mayweather staggering like Hatton round 1, and the flash knockdown in Judah round 2 which wasn't ruled a knockdown by Richard Steele for some reason even though it was a perfect counter right hook and he staggered and his glove hit the canvas (See! He's not a machine! Drago is hurt!) Actually it'll be the 2nd "L" of Floyd's career, Rugged Man being number 1. Caveman out, time to hunt for my dinner! Holler!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 05:00:54 PM
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The Saint:
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@Jason: I disagree with you. Mayweather has fought the very best welterweights. You must've forgot about Zab Judah, who secured his fight against Mayweather by losing to Carlos Baldomir. Baldomir was a beast that only 11 other fighters were able to defeat before Mayweather got in the ring with him. And let's not even talk about Gatti, the man possessed the best right jaw to the left fist I have ever seen.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 05:02:40 PM
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MisterLee:
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Floyd never even defended his 154 title belt ONCE! Martinez would box his ears off, then go to a modelling shoot. Floyd will have a shoulder roll defense, Martinez will have his hands to his sides and smiling. Holler! Floyd's never knocked down nor knock out a true welterweight! Holler!!!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 05:02:43 PM
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Da Unknown Comic:
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Nice try author. But you are wrong. Pacquiao is juicing and the Mayweather camp got it from a good source. They'll still fight him but they want the best opportunity to catch him. Trust me. Just like Nasim Richardson got the Margarito and Trinidad tips from an inside source, the Mayweather camp got the same kinda tip. It was from a former sparring partner of Manny. That's all I can say at this point...
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 05:08:02 PM
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MisterLee:
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Soooo.... I didn't get an answer.... where are Cotto's allegations and theories regarding this matter? Cintron, Malignaggi, and Mayweather Sr. and Jr. have one on record in siting Manny's "steroid use". They have no ring experience with Manny themselves. IN FACT, neither Oscar De La Hoya, David Diaz, Ricky Hatton, NOR Miguel Cotto have on record in accusing Manny Pacquiao of steroid use. Sound fishy to you? Floyd is full ______ (u fill in the blank!) Holler!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 05:08:21 PM
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MisterLee:
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Wow! Real credible, especially since Radam is IN the Pacquiao posse, wouldn't you think he'd know by now? And if "Wild Card Gym" is a steroid breeding place does that mean Gerry Penalosa and Amir Khan are not clean either? Just curious too, how many other world champions has Roger Mayweather produced? Holler!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 05:10:54 PM
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The Saint:
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@Da Unknown Comic: So when are these "good sources" going to step up and testify against Pacquiao?
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 05:13:22 PM
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Da Unknown Comic:
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I mean think about it. The guy tells you he is scared of needles but he has like 6 tattoos. Lie. Then he says taking a test so close to the fight will drain him. But if YOU WATCH Pac/Hatton 24/7, you see a guy CLEARLY GIVING HIM A NEEDLE about 2 weeks (or less) before the Hatton fight. Another lie!
So if Manny is lying to you about these two things, WHY WOULD YOU TRUST HIM? Don't tell me cause he never got caught. Yeah, neither did Mosley or Margarito until people got the inside info. Trust me, its the SPARRING PARTNERS that will tell you. I'm not gonna tell you which one. But I'm sure it will come out.
Lastly, look for Bob Arum to apologize VERY SOON because the 24/7 tape don't lie baby!!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 05:16:56 PM
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MisterLee:
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"Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds." ~Ralph Waldo Emerson.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 05:24:25 PM
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The Saint:
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When did Pacquiao say he is scared of needles? Like a typical Mayweather goon, you fabricate words and twist it. Pacquiao doesn't like his blood drawn because he claims it makes him weak. Getting your blood drawn two weeks before a fight is not the same as getting your blood drawn the day before the fight. Pacquiao has no problem getting blood drawn immediately after the fight. Are you telling me that whatever was in Pacquiao's blood during the fight will be untraceable minutes after? James Toney got caught after the fight, I'm not sure what type of testing it took. But how would Pacquiao get away with it when Toney didn't? Again this is all pointless because Mayweather's intention is to duck Pacquiao. Like I said, Pacquiao is setting a trap for Mayweather to commit to the fight. Not that Mayweather's demands aren't already beyond ridiculous at this point, but after Pacquiao agrees to the blood tests, there's no other excuse Mayweather will be able to come up with to not fight Pacquiao.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 05:26:06 PM
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SALT lover@Da Unkown Comic:
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I agree 100% with you on the majority of the things you are sayin': that all the reasons that Pacquiao's givin' cuz of not givin' the test is simple BULL$^H!T. You forgot to mention about the "personal superstitions" when he's boastin' to be a "man of faith", and cuz of feelin' weak, when it's only a spoon worth of blood. Also yeah, Mosley and Jones were always negative in the results so the argument that Pacquiao has been clean is completely nonsense and out of point. And finally I also agree with you that the majority of athletes caught usin' illegal supplements have been cuz of allegations and claims that turned out to be Truth, and not cuz of testin'. All you just wrote, it's EXACTLY what I've been writin', and you forgot that the blood testin' is THE ONLY (Like I've written 1000 times already), the ONLY demand from the Mayweather Camp, and now people are startin' to make look as if Floyd wants to call the shots, when it's the Pacquiao Team doin' all kinds of demands. Floyd Mayweather and his people are in their right to demand a clean fight. The only thin' I'm not gonna go with you, is just sayin' that Pacquiao's juicin'. Two weeks ago, I wuld've said "No. He's not usin' steroids". But after Pacquiao's refusal I have to say I simply don't know. Pacquiao could've used this blood demand to KO the Mayweathers outside the ring, instead he has made it difficult for himself. It doesn't matter what the Paclovers, FANATICS, and fans say: there's no reason not to accept that test if one is clean. And about the source you got from the inside and stuff, I'm sorry, but talkin' stuff here in a computer is easy, so I'm not buyin' it. But the rest of the things you wrote.........HELL YES!!!!!!! Latezzzzzzzzzz!!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 05:31:05 PM
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MisterLee:
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If Floyd's negotiating were like a Mexican fighter, he'd take one to give three.... then there you have it... Manny can say whatever he wants b/c in the end it's HIS preference... but mind you preference doesn't equal PED. Floyd has told a FEW lies before... he was gonna retire permanently from the sport, that he has fought the best, that he ducks no fighters (except Mosley who called him out 3 times this year), that he will never work with Bob Arum, that he will never agree to a 50/50 split, that he's the number 1p4p fighter in the world out of retirement, that Marquez is a "great little man" at welterweight, that he is the HBO cash cow, that he will show up to the Marquez weigh in at 144 lbs, that calling out a fighter on the post-fight is rude (he announced return to ring on May 2nd, and called out Pacquiao the same night he fought Cotto), that he ISN'T bankrupt nor owes the IRS $5-6 million (though he deposited about that amount to the IRS after the Marquez fight)... so yeah Floyd has told one lie, he TOLD MANY LIES. Does that mean we should trust him?
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 05:31:37 PM
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The Saint:
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Regarding claims that Pacquiao has dictated all the terms, well the welterweight limit is 147. That's not Pacquiao dictating the terms. This is for the welterweight title. It's one thing to make a catchweight WITHIN the weight limit, but to fight for Pacquiao's welterweight belt at ABOVE 147 is ridiculous. For the glove size, 8 oz is the STANDARD size used by fighters in this weightclass. Mayweather wants to wear pillows. For the ring size, there's a standard size that is dictated by the NSAC. So again, Mayweather fans have been proven liars.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 05:39:29 PM
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Da Unknown Comic:
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Manny is boxer of the decade because people tend to remember the last part of the decade. For example, the NFL play of the decade was David Tyree's catch against New England. How can that be when the best Super Bowl play ever was the Steller's linebacker scoring against Arizona. Pac beat May's leftovers (Hatton and Chicken De La Hoya). They both beat Marquez (even though manny is REALLY 0-2 against JMM). May beat Corrales when he was a MONSTER. Mosley ducked him so he couldn't claim that. But he beat Gatti, Judah, Corley, Sharmba, Famoso Hernandez and, Jesus Chavez, Castillio twice (and he fought the rematch right away to prove himself against Castillo). Unlike manny who made JMM wait a few years. he beat Sosa, N'dou and Corley. NONE of these guys were chumps until AFTER Floyd beat them. NONE!! Pac lost to a shot Eric Morales and then beat him twice. He beat a shopworn barrerra. He beat a HIGHLY overrated david Diaz. Look at the first 10 guys Pac fought in 2000. How many names can you pronounce? Fighter of the decade? Please. He's had some good wins lately (some were May's leftovers) but I hate when one person says something and we all go ahead. LISTEN AND LISTEN GOOD!!! FORTY OPPONENTS HAVE HAD A PLAN AND FORTY HAVE FAILED!!!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 05:41:39 PM
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Da Unknown Comic:
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Uhh, I meant Steelers not Stellers
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 05:43:27 PM
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The Saint:
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@Da Unknown Comic aka Floyd Mayweather: Floyd was an excellent LIGHTWEIGHT, but he should've stayed a lightweight if he had no intention of fighting the best welterweights. He's been a welterweight for half the decade and has fought NOBODY. And yes, Corley was a chump who'd already got chumped by fellow chump Zab Judah when Mayweather fought him. And sorry to break the news to you, De La Hoya was Mosley's and Hopkins' leftovers, not Mayweather. Mosley, Hopkins and Pacquiao beat De La Hoya a lot more convincingly, and even Floyd Mayweather Sr. went on record to say that DLH beat Floyd. lol. The only other fighter who deserves to be fighter of the decade is Bernard Hopkins, whose amazing victories spread across the entire decade, beginning with Trinidad and ending with Pavlik. Sure, he lost a few fights but that's what happens when you fight the best, something that Mayweather hasn't done since he fought Corrales.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 05:51:04 PM
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SALT lover@Da Unkown Comic:
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Good luck man....EVERYTHING you're sayin' right now, I've been tryin' to tell these haters, and FANATICS. Imagine, one of them told me givin' Floyd cedit for the Diego Corrales win is givin' too much credit for Floyd!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! XD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I found that boxin' mentality in here, it's almost impossible to make these kids get to their sense. But anyways, good luck man. I agree 100% with almost everythin' you've written so far. Latezzzzz!!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 06:01:43 PM
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MisterLee:
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Wow, we've now separated the cream from da' crap. Da Unknown Comic is really a closeted Floyd fan! Ya know Cotto knocked Corley and Judah TFO!! Floyd took them to the park and back, and Floyd couldn't or wouldn't finish a guy who came up 2-4 divisions, depending on how you look at it, to fight him at welter. How was Oscar "leftovers", a split decision and not a single stagger nor knockdown does not count to me like someone who got their ____ beat. Ya MUST be a noob here. At least most of the Floyd fans here have reduced Floyd's glowing victories to castillo twice, corrales, judah, and MAYBE hatton, tho it's a scam, as Hatton got beat by Luis Collazo and Ricky is not a tru welterweight. Speaking of, I want to rewatch Berto Collazo tonight. What a fun fight! All ya'll FLOYD FANS: answer this question: Has Floyd EVER faced an "A" fighter in his division? Waiting on the answer...
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 06:08:15 PM
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MisterLee:
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I said Corrales was not a GREAT fighter fo' sure! This is just like Roy Jones Jr. He ducked a lot of fighters and some of his biggest names or "most impressive victories" include Bernard Hopkins, and James Toney, both of whom he fought before 1995 I believe, and the guy retires in 2009! So he went 14 years not fighting the best... going to heavy was kinda cool, tarver and johnson are not bad fighters, nor calzaghe, but there you have it... if you guys can only list me Floyd's accomplishments at light weight or jr. welter, and none of them are either active or have accomplished much since, it means: Floyd has NEVER fought an "A" fighter in his division. Holler!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 06:11:25 PM
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Jason:
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@Da Unknown Comic. I agree with you that people tend to remember only recent events. For example, Shane Mosley's win over Margarito was, in my opinion, the most significant fight of the year, but it gets lost in the shuffle because it happened in January. And your points about Pacquiao are solid (although hugely unpopular as this is a pro-Pacquiao crowd), especially the fact that he lost to an absolutely shot Erik Morales in March 2005. And remember, Morales would follow up his win against Pacquiao with a loss to Zahir Raheem in one of the most putrid performances by a fighter of note of the decade. But Floyd's opposition has been terrible. There's no way around that. Without question, the biggest win of Floyd's career was against Diego Corrales. It was a dangerous fight for him, and he took it, which is shocking in retrospect. And remember, Floyd lost on one card to De La Hoya, which is ugly (Tom Kaczmarek scored the fight 115-113, De La Hoya).
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 06:22:58 PM
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SALT lover@Jason:
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Completely agree with you also. Man, finally good INTELLIGENTE comments. Yeah, what Da Unkown Comic has been writin' is SPOT ON. I agree with, and I had written it before, Morales was declinin' when he first met Pacquiao. I don't believe he was completely shot, but he was declinin', and the Zahir Raheem blunder's a clear example that his skills were diminishin'. And I also agree with the recent performances being heavier than the recent ones. Hell yes Floyd Mayweather Jr (40-0)'s TKO Victory over the legendary, and great fighter of Diego Corrales in 2000 was a solid a win for Floyd. That Victory was a great Victory, and completely solidify his status as a P4P fighter. Anyone with common sense knows this. Any Floyd hater with a right mind gives Floyd huge credit for that Victory, it's so kindergarden obvious. 90% of the experts were pickin' Corrales to KO Floyd, and Floyd just looked like magic (Same thin' the lame rapper Rugged Man, whjo tired to ruin Floyd in that interview, said). It WAS amagic performance against a great warrior in Corrales, may he rest in peace. Good writin' guys. Keep it up!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 06:30:52 PM
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Jason @ MisterLee:
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"All ya'll FLOYD FANS: answer this question: Has Floyd EVER faced an "A" fighter in his division?" ----- I'm not a Floyd fan, but I'll answer. Yes. Twice. Diego Corrales on January 20, 2001, and Genaro Hernandez on October 3, 1998. Those are the best wins of his career by MILES. Remember, when Floyd fought Castillo, he'd already been KNOCKED OUT 4 times in his career. Castillo was a good fighter though and it can be argued he's in there too. But Corrales and Hernandez are the best wins of his career. He's done NOTHING above 135 though.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 06:31:27 PM
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d duck:
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can pac man beat floyd without steroids? if not he better back out of the test and the fight and take on malignaggi. come on pac stay clean and fight mean take the test.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 06:35:18 PM
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Tex:
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"Equality" as its worst. The press shouldn't just treat both sides the same because of superficial wishes for "balance". There IS a high ground here. Mayweather is calling for something to be used for this fight out of the clear blue. Arum and Pacquiao are rejecting the method of control. Floyd's wrong, Pac's right... What's sad is that Floyd has basically hijacked the press with his public relations skills.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 06:42:46 PM
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temper proof:
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Blood drawn 14 days before the Hatton Pacquiao fight. No substance was found. Pac fought Hatton without steroid/performance enhancing drugs. Pac demolished Hatton with his natural power. What is the point of questioning Pacman he is taking illegal substance when nothing came out on the numerous urine tests he had. Floyd Sr and Jr, Ellerbe and Golden Boy are unreasonably deamanding this stuffs. And while they are demanding they are announcing Pac is refusing to take the kind of test they want. Pacquiao did not say no. They don't know any about testing and how urine testing worlks effectively and that is not their job.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 07:03:26 PM
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RANCHERO_AFAMADO:
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HA!!!! 24/7 finnaly paid off... pacman took a drug test mighty close to the cotto fight so whats the deal? Lets just get this fight going!!! Take the test if you gots nothing to hide! I would love to see Floyd lose, but I do find it incredible how Pacman has gone up in weight so easily. ...... lets get it going!!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 07:20:29 PM
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RANCHERO_AFAMADO:
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TEMPER PROOF.... HATTON IS NO FLOYD. FLOYD CAN BOX, RUNS LIKE HELL BUT CAN BOX! JUST CAUSE NOTHING CAME OUT POSITIVE ON THAT FIGHT DOESN'T MEAN HE WONT BE ON IT NOW. IM JUST SAYING ..... PACMAN WOULD'A BEAT HATTON WITH ONE HAND.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 07:24:55 PM
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Jason:
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Another thing about Floyd and his lack of opposition. One of the better wins of Floyd's career was against Arturo Gatti (RIP), and even Floyd referred to him as a "C-level fighter." These are Floyd's own words! Again, a C-level fighter. Other than Genaro Hernandez and Diego Corrales -and remember these fights were a LONG time ago- he's fought B and C-level opposition, admitted by Floyd himself.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 07:25:20 PM
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Yuvie:
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Floyd's a smart man. Not only has he managed to avoid the fight but he's also made Pacquiao look like the villain in this mess. Nothing is certain in boxing. All I know is that this whole argument brings the sport into disrepute. Thanks very much for that, The Mayweather's and your fans. Let's face it, any one side can argue for their fighter and each can bring up great view points, but we ain't doing sh*t but theorising. I really don't care or want to take sides in this anymore because the longer this goes on, the worse it looks for boxing. If this is the best we can do for those watching from the outside (meaning casual sports fan) then I think we just need to re-name our sport the WWE or WWF, whatever that fake soap opera wrestling BS was because that's what it's becoming. Come to think about it, Mayweather's had experience, maybe that's where he got the idea. Again, I don't know who or what to believe anymore. I think it's time to take a break, stay away from boxing until Jan 31, Mosley/Berto. Maybe then these two clown factions will have sorted that stupid crap out.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 07:38:50 PM
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Yuvie:
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PS I've never seen so much crap from the sport I'm meant to love. How pathetic it's become.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 07:40:31 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Yuvie:
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I share your disgust.... but look forward to seeing Juanma and Gamboa at the Garden in January and then Shane v Berto at the end of the month. The holiday season has no doubt been poisoned by incredible, or should I say unconscionable, BS. Hopefully, after two or three fights early this season you will feel better.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 08:14:16 PM
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insideinformation:
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After all the friendship and sports comradeship that existed between Miguel Cotto and Manny Pacquiao for their 2009 mega fight this past November 14th in Las Vegas, Cotto was dismayed with Manny Pacquiao’s position towards the proposal for Olympic type drug testing requested by Floyd Mayweather. “I am in complete awe with Manny’s reaction to this matter. He has always been a great athlete and a gentleman. Why in the world would he require restrictions or conditions for the tests? It is a golden opportunity for him to dissipate all worldwide rumors surrounding his figure and the use of enhancement drugs. His refusal to commit to the tests without conditions raises questions. Olympic type drug testing is the most efficient tool for the sport to secure fair play. My recommendation to all boxing authorities in the world is to implement it across the board. I would agree to it without hesitation or reservations. It is the only way to ensure that the outcome of a bout is the strict result of conditioning and ability. To magnify your talent with drugs is repulsive,” Miguel Cotto stated.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 08:14:51 PM
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brownsugar@aol.com:
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Cotto has always been a righteous guy,.. and other than being a master of the low blow and a possible former victim of loaded gloves,. his slate is clean... I think Manny should consider his words carefully.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 09:14:39 PM
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brownsugar:
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I'd like to see Floyd fly to the P. I. (Manilla) and have a sit down with Manny on Phillipino National TV and discuss thier differences like gentlemen... no bashing or cursing,.. just straight talk.. just give him enough security to make it to the airport and back in one piece...
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 09:27:56 PM
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brownsugar:
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it would be the greatest prefight PR move in history.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 09:28:48 PM
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SALT lover@brownsugar:
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..................................you're kiddin', right? That's a joke. A joke from you. You can't possibly be serious, man.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 09:31:53 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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He should go there and fight him. In Manila. Now that would be history.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 09:50:01 PM
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Jay Ari Yin:
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The irony of it all is that Golden Boy Promotions has a promotional stake in Manny Pacquiao and none in Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Although Manny has offered the blood drug tests to be done during the press conference, 30 days before the fight and right after the fight, I noticed that in all his live interviews, he is only against the taking of blood samples on the day of the fight and up to 2 days before the fight.
And both parties should consider what NSAC Kizer said that blood samples should be taken only in sterile location.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 09:50:39 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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Read Kevin Iole at Yahoo if you like irony.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 09:52:49 PM
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brownsugar@Salt L:
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Seriously and could you imaging a fight there,...that would eclipse the thrilla in Manilla,... people would be talking about it for decades... I can see it now...
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 09:58:32 PM
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brownsugar:
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Freddy Roach throws in the towel at 10:56 of round 10,.. and Floyd passes out briefly from exhaustion in the hot humid Manilla air... the army has to rush him to the airport... as someone tries to snipe him from the stands...
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 10:04:21 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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Maybe for just this fight they should make it, say....15 rounds. Or better yet, until one man can't continue. I mean why not. This is after all the biggest match in years. Why not just make up some 'special' new rules. The whole world is watching. Let's make this a one off. Anything goes. The higher the bar the bigger the gate.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 10:11:45 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Brownsugar :
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We should be promoting this one. We'd have to be 'tards to not make this fight. pc
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 10:13:35 PM
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dino da vinci:
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Yeah, have to agree. Mortcola is a monster.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 10:18:19 PM
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SALT lover@brownsugar:
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If Floyd goes to The Philippines, he'll return in a body bag. Not cuz of Pacquiao, though. After he kicks Pacquiao's a$$, people will murder that dude. Their woman president will have couple snipers on the roof just in case Floyd wins XD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 10:22:23 PM
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brownsugar@at Fe'Roz:
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yeah,.. the fans know best,... but can you imagine Manny or Floyd,.. going to the bank and thinking,.. damn,.. I've got to fight 4 more people and 2 more years to make that same 25-30million I would have made in one night...money has to be stronger than pride to a prize fighter.. the perfect spin machine has to be set in place... to do some type of compromise without causing either fighter to lose face...I'm surprised Arum and Schaeffer can't figure that out... who ever still has a beef,.. can add it to the hype machine... I'd be shocked if they don't find a way to squash this... although some ego's may have been bruised... both Floyd and Pac want to rule the world... eventually the money will prevail.. (Arum already made a brief statement that's no longer available to see that he's going to ask Manny to test).. Arum has one foot in the grave and still can't get enough cash...Roach has been uncharacteristically quiet,.. because it hurts him so bad,.. he can't even sleep at night,.. knowing those millions could possibly be flushed down the toilet,.. Oh Pharoah,.. let my people GO....
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 10:29:41 PM
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brownsugar@Salt L:
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yeah,.. they would call it the shortest reign in history,.. Lol,. but Floyd is usually very gracious after he wins,.. maybe he could follow Pac's example by inviting him over to one of his "Make it Rain-Rap-Party-Bar-be-ques" if he wins.. Holla'
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 10:33:40 PM
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brownsugar:
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but boxings not dead yet,.. take a look at the amazing new prospects on ESPNBoxings "New Prospects" story,.. these guys will eventually inherit every division from the welterweights to the super middle weights and they are only a year away from hitting the big time.. well,.. time to get some rest ... pc out....
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 10:39:05 PM
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isidro:
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The article is bordering into screaming ang crying out loud seemingly not to anybody, but on Pacquiao.Probably it is still too early to give the itchiness to lambast Manny in all angle once the fight won't materialize.Being a Filipino and a third world p4p champion and holder of seven championship belt into seven classes seems counter productive when talking about the intricacies of of boxing in the USA .Well let history decide on that,however we all know how it works when it comes to control in media let alone if the person is not an insider as some says.The only sure thing that will happen is Pacquiao legacy won't come out very clean but with cloud of doubt forever if possible.Once again hopes of a nation will be shattered as all the eggs lies in one basket as it says.If the happens ,it is not as beautiful as it was once imagine.I think and it doesn't matter ,i know that,let this page to turn over and give the fans another offer of to somewhat lessening the hatred and be entertain in boxing which is the case before Mayweathers started the negatives and the rest is history that nobody cares about.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 10:49:27 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Brownsugar :
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Seriously, we have to be able to talk some sense into these two. Manny must need the bread to run his Campaign. Roger and Pops will/must need it for their defense lawyers. Freddie must want his. Floyd needs the cash, well, because he likes it. And to keep the Feds off his back. So who's holding this thing up. The suits. She'aat. I'll wear a damn guayabero or a dashiki or some Adida sweats. Whatever it takes. I'm ready. Talking is my game. In G-ddamn Manila! Can you imagine !?! Seriously, I am finding it hard to believe that this is not going to happen.... but at the same time they have all publicly dug in their heels. All this in the middle of a damn recession. Somebody better hurry up and find the glass slipper fast if or else we're not going to get our Cinderella Man. Or this coach is going to turn back into a pumpkin.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 10:51:24 PM
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brownsugar:
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damn well said...
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 11:00:32 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Brownsugar :
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I was traveling before Christmas and missed the live telecast of the Pavlik fight with Espino. I just watched it now on YouTube. How do you think he'll match up with Martinez if they meet. Arum and DiBella are tight so I expect this one to be made.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 11:18:22 PM
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MisterLee:
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Wow... yeah boxing was doing fine without floyd. he fights one featherweight and the world is amuck. In eve of floyd's retirement there was a bit of a "void" in the boxing world. Then we got joel casamayor vs. katsidis, miguel cotto stepped up as boxing's new super star in 2008 after having just beaten Sugar Shane Mosley and disposing of Alfonso Gomez, cotto margarito was mexico vs. PR, we had calzaghe attempting to seal his legacy, Nonito Donaire stepping up to the plate as he beat Darchinyan (tho evil vic still carried the torch as a big little guy in the sport), Pacquiao fought marquez for the second time, then he fought diaz and de la hoya to seal the deal as the reigning p4p champion and superstar, tho golden boy was gone pacquiao carried the torch, the heavyweight division was still sagging, there were a few exciting juan diaz fights in between, then bhop also took apart pavlik... then 2009 came around, obama was newly elected, our economy was sagging, pple were complaining about crappy HBO PPV cards and a series of awesome boxing after dark events highlighted the beginning of the new year, 2009, when mosley marg took off, then juan diaz vs. marquez, floyd was still being mentioned but in passing, angulo and ortiz and even kirkland were pushed in boxing cards every 2 months, andre ward was set to fight edison miranda in his biggest fight, ricky was feeling good about his dominant win over malignaggi, and boxing looked like it was finally, despite a poor economy, was gonna stay afloat with great BAD events, emerging stars in the Oscar and Floyd void, and I feel that period peaked with Cotto fighting Clottey on free HBO BAD, and Manny facing Hatton, then Floyd came in, basically muscling out mosley, williams, and clottey from the welterweight negotiations b/c it became all about pacquiao. Floyd hyped up Marquez in another 24/7, fooled some fans into being interested and wondering about the outcome, created a stir, and once again beat an over matched opponent easily and tried to bank on it. Then we got pacquiao finishing off the year agst cotto, and the kick off the super six tournament, i think boxing is doing just fine without floyd, and floyd's presence caused mosley a year off from boxing b/c mosley (who woulda got a shot at pacquiao OR cotto) was muscled out of a rematch with cotto, marg was suspended and was outta the picture, floyd was unavailable b/c he was fighting marquez, pacquiao obviously tango-ed with hatton and cotto (even tho mosley made it clear he wanted winner of pac hatton) and finally settled on a December date with Clottey, but HBO pulled out due to a short budge (see what happens when HBO spends all the money on a featherweight catchweight? you muscle out a glen johnson vs. tomas adamek match up, a better fight if you ask me)... oh yeah 2008-2009 were good years for Dawson too... anyway... so HBO pulls outta clottey,then quintana clottey doesn't happen... and mosley finally fights again a year later all b/c floyd muscles him out. Oh yeah, and williams moves up in weight and leaves the welter division b/c he's the dark horse. Martinez vs. Williams was an early Christmas present IMO. ALSO, juanma beats up my hero penalosa, but he gets 60-40 arse-whooped by Mtagwa! Holler! 2008-2009 were good non-oscar non-floyd years (no hyped up PPV events with bad undercards, but good youthful boxing). Bring back kirkland! Holler!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 11:23:30 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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So here we are with great year for the hurt business coming to an end. Then Santa promises us Mayweather vs Pacquiao for Christmas....and we wind up with an old version of Fantasy Boxing. Someone please tell us this is a joke. Please. Hello !! Anyone listening? Anyone!!
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 11:45:26 PM
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Jason:
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Reports are surfacing that Pacquiao's out and that Floyd Mayweather will be fighting Matthew Hatton in Wembley Stadium. Pacquiao is deserving of a stay-busy fight against a Malignaggi type. Hopefully Shane takes care of business against Berto (absolutely no guarantee) and Mosley-Pacquiao can be made in the late summer.
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 11:48:26 PM
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MisterLee:
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I hope so! Scareweather is so predictable. Pple been talking about his fronting for longtime. #1 pacsage said back in summer if pacquiao wins the cotto fight then may would either fight hatton (of course he meant the ricky one) oscar or go into retirement. So tru...
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 12:34:12 AM
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Misterlee:
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Wow, just read Kevin Iole article, pple on TSS be' regurgitating his stuff for' sure! Come up with your own original thoughts or at least reflect and write down your opinions on the matter, some of you guys are as original as white bread. Holler!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 12:52:25 AM
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Isaiah@MisterLee:
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Cmon man. You know you'd love to see a Mayweather/Matthew Hatton match like all of us. I'm trying to get tickets lined up, but it just so happens that whatever day it falls on, I have to get my teeth pulled all at the same time because it's less painful to go through. Besides, the annual paint drying and grass growing competition is on this day. Mayweather obviously has plenty of options. The CURRENT version of Roberto Duran would call him out. We also have Ivan Calderon to look forward to. Oh wait... This just in! Roberto Duran is too still too much of a threat!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 12:59:28 AM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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@MisterLee, I'm telling you this is not how he imagined it coming back. He expected Manny to get his arse kicked by either Hatton or Cotto. That didn't happen so he had to save face by agreeing to disagreeing to make it look like he really wanted to fight him. My exact words were that if he came back he wouldn't fight any of the big boys. He goes and fights JMM which made laugh as hell. I don't know what else to say man I mean you, Fe'Roz, Radam, Saint, Isaiah, and all the notable pacfans make so many great points but it's not enough. "Tell me the truth!" "You can't handle the truth!" They can't handle the truth I tell ya.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 12:59:39 AM
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Radam G --____Nobody will take a hair on PBF in da PI:
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Money May would be very safe in the Philippines. We Pinoys know the different between the boxing ring and respecting and showing max luv for a guest to our country. We will give Money May the royal treatment. What happens in the fight game stays there to real boxers. We don't take that $hit personal. Pera Pac and is going to sue or get a cash settlement and whup Lil' Floyd arse. We Filipinos have to much civility to let anything happen to a great boxer like Money May on a visit to our Islands. Though he will not ever need it, we will give him 10,000 elite bodyguards to protect him, Holla!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 01:01:28 AM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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@Yuvie, I'm gonna have to agree with you on that one. I'm about as worn out as can be. All this back and forth is useless. You hear the same ol song and same ol story. It starting to sound like broken records when I read all these comments. I've said about all I can say regarding these issue so I'm going to think about other stuff.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 01:06:32 AM
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MisterLee:
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@ #1 pacsage, yeah man, most Floyd fans religiously follow EVERY word that comes off his lips. Yeah, inside info on manny, I also heard he once stole a toy from a classmate in kindergarten, and I also heard he had two protein shakes in a row! I heard with an "inside source" that Lamont peterson knocked out Floyd cold!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 01:08:13 AM
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MisterLee :
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@ Floyd fans (GOAT, kounted out, ali, real talk, salt lover, SOHK, ben o' connor) can you please answer this question (please stop accusing "pac fans" while you are selective in your choice of answering questions). Someone said Manny is basically untrustworthy b/c he told one lie and made a statement that wasn't tru. So how does this make floyd with this laundry list:? ... "Floyd has told a FEW lies before... he was gonna retire permanently from the sport, that he has fought the best, that he ducks no fighters (except Mosley who called him out 3 times this year), that he will never work with Bob Arum, that he will never agree to a 50/50 split, that he's the number 1p4p fighter in the world out of retirement, that Marquez is a "great little man" at welterweight, that he is the HBO cash cow, that he will show up to the Marquez weigh in at 144 lbs, that calling out a fighter on the post-fight is rude (he announced return to ring on May 2nd, and called out Pacquiao the same night he fought Cotto), that he ISN'T bankrupt nor owes the IRS $5-6 million (though he deposited about that amount to the IRS after the Marquez fight)... so yeah Floyd has told one lie, he TOLD MANY LIES. Does that mean we should trust him? "
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 01:11:27 AM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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HAHAHA Great stuff MisterLee! They think Floyd's some genius by living his life around the media. They try to put Manny in that category as well but he doesn't revolve his life around the media. The media revolves around him(MP). That was a knockout blow Caveman.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 01:21:47 AM
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Isaiah:
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Let me go ahead and respond for the Floyd fans. They have no facts, just speculation, unjustified at that. Oh, according to a select few of Floyd's blind followers, who wouldn't know what honor and dignity where if Manny Pacquiao shook their hand, you must be a racist if you have anything to say negative about the great Mayweathers and must ignore all the actual facts that put them in a bad light. I'm just saying, I actually look at all the facts instead of automatically declaring my allegiance for Manny and I've got to say, it doesn't look good for the Mayweathers.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 01:28:04 AM
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Isaiah@MisterLee:
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Keep up those posts man and everyone including me, will have no choice, but to put you in the #1 spot for sure. No offense Fe'roz.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 01:30:10 AM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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I haven't had the chance to say this but great article Ron Borges. Laying it out in both views is the best way to settle an argument. Okay...let's talk about Mosley-Berto. I think Mosley going to dominate Berto in a lopsided fight. Mosley is just too strong for Berto who is game but he had problems with lesser opponents. Mosley TKO in 6.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:17:35 AM
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MisteRLee:
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Borges is contending with F-lo for that number 1 spot! This defines greatness. Keep it up! You guys are coming neck to neck, unless Toledo drops one of his poetic bombs to the chin, then you guys will be treading water for two weeks! :) Friendly competition brings out the best out of us. Soo... it's been an hour ... no answer ali, GOAT, kounted out, ali, SOHK, salt lover, real talk? Holler! Wow! I just named Floyd's entire fan club! Gots too much respect to lump B-sug and ultimoshogun in, nor arturo (arturo talks boxing, not nuthuggin'). Holler!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:29:06 AM
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BLUE4COR:
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The enthusiasts among the boxing fans for this megafight is SEEMINGLY DECREASING. Unreasonable drug tests demand is the ones that is causing it. How can people view the fight as a huge one when one party's demand is GOING BEYOND REASONABLE LIMITS? There is a saying that goes "STRIKE WHILE THE IRON IS HOT". Well, the Mayweathers and the GBP's are dousing water in it. The dilly-dally tactics being caused by the drug t issue is pissing off many. Why should we draw a blood from an athlete so close to his his scheduled strenous physical and mental tasks? Who can say that this test that hasn't been done yet in boxing is not going to affect both fighters performance on the night they will go to war? How can we expect a good fight when the test would weaken them? Are we putting on a show or are we putting on a feud? Put a halt to this absurd inapropriate timing of blood drawing, SAVE THE FIGHT WHILE WE CAN.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:44:36 AM
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arturo:
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yuvie and feroz are feeling the same as i did two weeks ago, I went to the hospital and the Dr. said that a lot of people are feeling ill and told me to wear a mask next time I read another article . After seeing how people defend their fighter blindly I will stop before It gets out of control also. The truth is that I love this sport and I would be mad as hell at the politics and pride that could stop the fight from happening.What a great opportunity to show the world all the hard work that these men have gone through to fight for the right to be The Best Prizefighter. I have never anticipated a fight so much in my life and it might not even happen.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:57:12 AM
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Isaiah:
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Here to start off the TSS award ceremony is none other than Floyd Mayweather... (Floyd steps up to the podium) "I would like to thank my fans. All 10 of them. Manny is obviously ducking me. I mean, why wouldn't he just let me go ahead and jab a needle deep in him whenever I felt like it so I can start draining his blood? See, he's ducking me. He's on steroids because my dad told me he was, and believe me, dad knows his drugs. I mean, people want to point out to me that when you get a tattoo, it only goes a quarter inch into your skin and you'd be much more relaxed during this then being interrupted during training. I say, Logic has no place here dawg! Now, I'm going to throw a temper tantrum for awhile until you each pay me $50 dollars on PPV to watch me smack around the even less talented Hatton brother, Mathew. In fact, make it $60 dollars. Why? Because I'm the greatest ever, that's why. I know Paulie Malignaggi looks like an all time great compared to Matthew Hatton, so I'll take him on in a wussy slap fest 12 round decision in my last fight to see who can hurt eachother the least. Don't tell me how Sugar Ray Robinson fought Jake Lamotta twice within a couple weeks. Don't tell me how Willie Pep's record was once 134-1-1. I said I'm the greatest ever! See, I beat Carlos Baldomir and Zab Judah coming off a loss. See, I'm the best that ever was because I'm undefeated. Don't tell me how there is threats at 147. Look. Manny Pacquiao only agreed to 3 blood tests above and beyond what he HAD to do. If I make up a rule I decide to enforce for no reason and no proof, then you have to do what I say or I'm throwing a temper tantrum and going home. Remeber my FOOLS, er... I mean, fans. I must be the best ever and don't have to prove it, well, because I say so... No matter what, I win by default. Sorry, the other guys have losses, so I WIN! Now time to go and use your all's money as toilet paper." "Okay tell you what, I challenge Oscar De La Hoya to come back out of retirement for a rematch, but, he can't weigh more then the Lightweight limit and he has to wear 16 oz. gloves. Of course, I can do what I want."
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 05:45:13 AM
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ian11rukawa:
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You want this fight to be tested because it is one of the biggest fight in history..? In the PBF-DLH fight is there a blood testing like this..? In the Holyfield-Tyson fight is there a blood testing.. In every biggest boxing fight there is no blood testing..! You only want blood testing because PBF make you believe Pacman is on PED.. Common sense people.. Common sense..
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 06:34:55 AM
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SALT lover@Isaiah:
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Dude, the one who created the speculations, and the mystery was Pacquiao himself. He's the one who made people suspicious by not takin' the tests like he was SUPPOSED to. And it's not just the Mayweather fans, it's a whole bunch people, it's just that not everybody talks out loud like they do. I'm not interested in shakin' Pacquiao's hands ever in my life, but I wouldn't be chasin' after Floyd if I see him in the streets either.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 08:22:31 AM
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mortcola@SALT:
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SALT - There's usually one little glitch in an argument if you can find it. Yours is that Pac was "SUPPOSED to" take the tests. That has no basis in reality. The Mayweathers made above-and-beyond tests a demand. Pac agreed to a different schedule of testing - one that was beyond what any boxing agency in the world requires. Not good enough for the Great Warrior Floyd (and the head of his promotion agency, who happened to have been humiliated and retired by Pac). The cesspool rises.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 09:14:46 AM
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The Saint:
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@SALT lover: You keep getting pwned by mortcola but you're not on a flaming basis with him like you are with me so you can't hide behind your usual nonsense like you do against me. try refuting what he says. lol
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 09:26:47 AM
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The Saint:
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Mayweather and his fans have no class, plain and simple. Goldenboy's strategy is to instigate the mob mentality by rousing up feeble minded people emotionally with no basis whatsoever in hopes of bullying pac.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 09:29:23 AM
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insideinformation:
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How is it the Mayweathers made above-and-beyond tests a demand when Miguel Cotto said he would take the test with the quickest and he has never been accused of steroids. Statement from Shane Mosley "I'M NOT GOING TO SAY PACQUIAO IS DOING ANYTHING, BUT HE IS A LITTLE QUESTIONABLE!"
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 09:34:25 AM
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Fe'Roz :
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The unproven speculative Bile that comes from the Mayweather clan in their attempt to drag the most dynamic force into a cesspool of their making is as relentless as it will be proven libelous. Get ready for the fight of the decade. Roger, Floyd Sr and Floyd, with Richard Schaefer, not in.. but facing the corner for bad behavior, fighting for the biggest purse they have ever imagined, against Dan Petrocelli, the lawyer who beat OJ in civil court, in the corner for Manny and Top Rank. In that arena, the burden of proof in will soon be cast where it belongs. Upon them. The Mayweather Legacy is sealed for this generation and generations to come. The best they can do is try to defend themselves in the short term. Long term, they will be known for what they are. Talented fighters in the ring and low lives outside. Before Mayweather (s) started their defamation campaign, there was one standard. That of the NSAC. It was good enough for Floyd v Marquez this year. Good enough for Shane v Berto (next year). Good enough for every fight fought in Mayweather's Las Vegas backyard. And now, just when the first real challenge... or should I say genuine threat...to Floyd's record (forget legacy) presents itself, he, NOT his opponent, moves the goalposts to a place determined solely by him. For one purpose. To defame the man that stole forever his glory. And with it our sport. The Mayweathers, their varied criminal records in hand, have besmirched for no reason whatsoever, the dignity of not only Boxing's Ambassador, Manny Pacquiao, but of Boxing itself. The punishment should be where it hurts the most. In their pocket. For us it is their very presence....
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 09:45:52 AM
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Fe'Roz :
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Isaiah is right. Try to answer one question at a time. I, and I am sure I speak for many others here, will be happy to to the same. One question. One answer.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 09:49:27 AM
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The Saint:
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@Fe'Roz: OUCH! Take it easy on the mayweather fans on these boards. Their incoherence is entertaining. If you hit them too hard we might not see them ever again. Even smart people need dumb people to make themselves look even smarter. Pull your punches a little!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 09:54:18 AM
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Fe'Roz :
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Does that mean I get to wear ten ounce gloves?
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 09:58:12 AM
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brownsugar:
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Fighters by nature are callous,.. abusive,..sadistic and agressive...(or how else could they succeed at thier trade??),.. even though some,..like Manny have a very circumspect and positive public image,..but I can barely comprehend the thought of a fighter taking another fighter to court for libel because of comments spoken leading up to a fight,.. Fighters talk about yo' momma,.. yo fat wife,.. yo busted haircut,.. and anything else they can think of leading into a fight... But Pacman leaves posts on the internet about his legal proceedings... ain't no way a fighter goes to court or calls a cop when he's been supposedly wronged by another fighter,... NO,... a fighter saves and savors the animosity and makes his opponent pay in the ring with a righteous beatdown,.. like the one we saw when Evander made Tyson pay for all his talk leading up to the fight(or Lewis),.. and it was very satisfying for the public to see (almost spirtual,..like hearing and excellent sermon in church),.. even Tyson said he felt cleansed by the beatdowns,..Tyson even went as far as saying he deserved to punished (publically)....But he don't take a fighter to court... what a punk a$$ move... what if Lennox Lewis took Tyson to court for threatening to eat his children... or Nate Campbell took Juan Guzman to court for calling his wife an ugly ho b!tch,.. come on man,.. these are fighters and they are going to fight anyway,.. and it's all legal...plus they get paid... all this talk about lawsuits is unbelievable,.. Manny should be chomping at the bit to get at Floyd in the ring... not leaving links to Floyd Senoir's latest youtube follies,.. Hearns said all kinds of things to Leonard,... some of it could have been considered a felonious verbal assault if it was reportedly said to another human being by anybody else..Manny says he and his country suffered agregis harm by Team Floyds comments,.. and his response is "lawsuit"???,... the public don't wanna hear that,.. not from fighters...it's worse than when 50 cent filed a restraining order against some rapper he was beefin' with( try to picture gun wielding dope boys applying for restraining orders,... what a joke)... but fighters fight,.. that's what they are trained and bred to do... so please Man-up Manny sir... and take the test.. clear your name,.. and punish Floyd for his transgressions,.. if you can....
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 10:31:07 AM
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Fe'Roz :
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Sugar, assuming you were arguably the biggest name and there fore the biggest draw in the game today. If someone defamed you (in this fashion) after all that you had achieved, would you give him a chance for a payday of a lifetime? Or... might you consider this: Take all the tests. But fight every other big name in the meantime. Make your accuser wait. Deny him. Earn your fortune. Then make the 'plaintiff' pay dearly in the ring. Not simply with your hands.... but with the one thing that hurts even more. A less favorable purse split.
Because that is what I think Manny is doing. He wants the fight, I have no doubt. But I don't think he and Arum are going to give it to him. Not now.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 10:49:18 AM
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Fe'Roz :
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Sugar, And by the way, I am now thinking that Manny will hurt Floyd in ways that he has never experienced. That doesn't mean win necessarily. But I do think he will hit/beat him hard. And that is one thing Floyd hates. He has said it many times. So I say, drop the stupid demands, and Man Up Floyd. You father and uncle both said (today) that you could beat Manny with our without steroids. So let's get it on.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 10:53:42 AM
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Fe'Roz :
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FACT: Ninety percent (93%) of Northerners, Ninety (90%) of Midwesterners and Eight-Seven (87%) percent believe that Barack Obama WAS born in the USA. FACT: Forty-Seven (47%) percent of Southerners believe he is NOT a US citizen. Forty-Seven percent. An interesting alliance has been formed between Floyd's fans and Southern voters. Does anyone else see the irony in this? For those that don't, allow me. Floyd Fans, meet your Southern brothers.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 11:02:31 AM
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SALT lover@mortcola:
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Yeah, and there's one in yours too: "Pac agreed to a different schedule of testing - one that was BEYOND what any boxing agency in the world requires." Wrong! The schedule he demanded was after the fight, and not before, in other words, before the fight where it is the most critical time anybody would put anythin' in their bodies. And the reason I said supposed (I knew it gonna bring the attention) was cuz first of all you and the rest of the Floyd haters are accusin' Floyd of anythin', and this whole thing started when Pacquiao REFUSED to. NOBODY had any problems with the USADA testin' when it was announced. Nobody here was attackin' Floyd for, it all started when Pacquiao refused to. That's what brought the cesspool you're talkin'. Had Pacquiao accepted the ONLY demand from the Mayweathers, there would be no problems like they are right. That's why Pacquiao was SUPPOSED to, and also to finally put doubts aside if he's clean, or not, and he brought more doubts.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 11:11:32 AM
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SALT lover@The Saint:
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Don't waste your time talkin' to me. The way you referred to the Mayweathers and his fans as "Primates" show what a imbecile way of thinkin' you have. You and some people here I ain't gonna answer nor talk to no more. I'm not gonna waste my time with someone with a mentality as yours. Good-bye.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 11:13:28 AM
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SALT lover@brownsugar:
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Takin' the test would've been enough. But he didn't. That says a whole lot about him, regardless of how the Floyd haters/Pacquiao lovers and FANATICS wanna fix it. A clean fighter NEVER has any problems in provin' clean and shut his critics wrong, in this case the critics being the Mayweathers. And like I had written before, if it was Floyd who was refusin' to take the test, what you think the Floyd critics here would be sayin'? "He doesn't have to"? HELL NO! I for one, would be questionin' Floyd, and criticizin' him.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 11:17:25 AM
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Fe'Roz @ Salt:
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No hate just respect between the two of us .... but you are wrong when you state that: " this whole thing started when Pacquiao REFUSED to." It started when Floyd Sr made his totally unfounded accusations. It became an issue when Leonard Ellerbee and Al Haymon wrote it into THEIR list of demands. Not the other way around
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 11:19:47 AM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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@Salt, sometimes I wonder if you really aren't a Pachater like you say you are. As much as I dislike Floyd at the moment I would not miss a chance of shaking a hand who is as famous as he is. How did Manny start off the speculations? By his dominance in the last decade? His easy disposal of Floyd's previous opponents? Or is it his record breaking 7 world title in different divisions and four lineal worl title in as many divisions? This record is breakable maybe not in our lifetime but not impossible. Floyd fans such as yourself don't want to wake up in this horrible nightmare of Manny being the face of boxing. So you go along with whatever that can downgrade Manny's career. If Floyd Sr. didn't run his mouth, Floyd Jr. to demand this Olympic-style testing, and GBP to tag along with this that no such speculations would have surfaced.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 11:20:45 AM
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Fe'Roz @ Salt and Sugar:
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S'up my brothers. I'm typing faster than two lawyers trying to break a deal ...and you guys aren't responding to me. Forget your jobs. AS the Godfather said: "This is the business that we've chosen." Bring it on...
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 11:25:38 AM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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@Salt, Pac signed the contract first. Floyd agreed to fight him only in public. There was no paper that stated that Floyd had already signed the fight. He gave Shaefer a list of demands for Arum. Arum felt confident which is why he ran/teleported to the Philippines to show Manny. Manny signs with no hesitation and it did not have the random testing on the paper. If Floyd had already signed the contract then the fight would have been sealed. It was Pac who signed the contract first and Team Mayweather made their changes.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 11:27:53 AM
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MisterLee:
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You k now what? IF floyd signs and fights either Shane Mosley or Manny Pacquiao in 2010, just one or TWO fighters, mosley, even by early 2011, I'll forever stop calling him "Scareweather". If he somehow goes through another year of boxing WITHOUT fighting these guys (be it "business reasons") I"ll call him the biggest waste of talent I've seen yet. Ali, Kounted out, Salt, Real Talk, SOHK...sorry guys for putting you on the spot. I realize we 've all had our differences, BUT also similarities depending on the subject, this subject just happens bring out heated emotions,but I still gots lots of respect for your boxing knowledge. (and btw- no one has defended Mayweather's many lies that i listed. Should i drop it?) Pc!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 12:06:45 PM
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mortcola@SALT:
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#1 is right. That's just the order in which the events occurred. Pac agreed to BEFORE and AFTER in response to Mayweather demand, but on a schedule GBP wouldn't accept. And, GBP's demand was something there was no justification for.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 12:14:36 PM
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MisterLee:
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The premise of the drug test was the accusation, and not the other way around. It's symbolic, it's like forcing an arrest without a warrant... what's the reason? What's the cause?
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 12:26:43 PM
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Jason @ Fe'Roz:
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"FACT: Forty-Seven (47%) percent of Southerners believe he (Obama) is NOT a US citizen." Maybe 47% at a Ku Klux Klan rally. I live in the southeastern US, and that figure is wildly overblown (approximately HALF of the American South believes that the President is NOT a legal citizen??). @MisterLee: What will you call Floyd if he fights none other than Matthew Hatton? 'Scareweather' may be too kind. In retrospect, the BEST thing that could have happened to Floyd would have been a decision loss in the first Castillo fight. Perhaps then he would have taken some risks as opposed to fighting, in his own words, nothing but C-level opposition for the last 8 years.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 12:27:58 PM
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MisterLee:
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B/c some crap sparring partner who was sloppy seconds for Amir Khan was jealous and ousted by the wild card gym? There were "allegations" of Lance Armstrong doping... it mainly came from the fact that nobody believed his and manny's accomplishments are humanly possible, more so than any real proof. There will always be cynics, and Sr. who never made it as a fighter nor a trainer is one of them. Holler!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 12:28:47 PM
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MisterLee:
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Well, I'll give Scareweather all of 2010 to really try to fight manny or mosley. if he avoids them, and i know his fans will back him up, then you know he scared. COME ON.... Mosley and Mayweather are BOTH in GBP, Mosley shouldn't have to call him out 3 times publicly when they both work for the same promoter... it's like Cotto Clottey or Cotto pacquiao running into "tough negotiations" even tho they both have Top Rank as a boss... can you guys tell me how hard negotiations were for cotto clottey, or cotto pac.... or pacquiao hatton? Hatton was tough negotiating but NOT that tough...they manned up and signed the papers. Serious, we're not talking about dental appointments from 2003, WHY would mayweather NOT take a Mosley fight in 2009-2010? Someone please explain that to me. Number 2 & 3 on the p4p list, #1 ranked welter vs. #3 ranked best welter in the world, a battle for ring magazine title (manny should NOT be #1 welter on ring magazine). Holler!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 12:34:24 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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Jason, I'm just quoting a US News and World Report article from July 31, 2009. Those numbers are just as astounding and surprising to me are they might be to you. But they are the numbers. Let's say for argument sake that there is a margin of error of ten percent. The numbers are still as astounding. But it's not the numbers that interest me. It's the irony. Southern voters in larger numbers believe the "Birther" lie intended to undermine Obama's credibility. And Floyd Fans enjoy perpetuating the same type of unfounded foolishness. Brothers of like kind? I don't think so. Food for thought.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 01:14:00 PM
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SALT lover@mortcola:
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First of all I'm not gonna read, nor respond to that FANATIC ever again. It's obvious the fanatism makes him blind beyon' comprehension, and he'll defend his idol no matter what. Even if Pacquiao is proven to have used steroids, he's gonna still defend Pacquiao, so there's no reason to read, or respond to a fanatic like that; it's a waste of time. Second, between you and me, it doesn't matter who demands the schedule: a lcean fighter's a clean fighter ALWAYS, so what's the problem? Why not submit to the tests? And besides, OBVIOUSLY before the fight is where the most critical point to put anythin' in one's body is, and not after. That's the Truth. If it was Floyd who was refusin' to take any tests, I would've been suspicious of him, and I would criticize Floyd.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 01:15:59 PM
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SALT lover:
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*a clean fighter's a clean fighter ALWAYS
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 01:16:59 PM
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SALT lover@Fe'ROZ:
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Hehehehehehe, I sorry, I'm sorry, man. I always read your stuff, dude. I was away for amoment, but I'm back. XD!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah, I can see you're fully dedicated. That's cool. I'ma be respondin' pretty soon, man. Keep up the good work!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 01:19:01 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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@Saltlover, I guess I always get the best of you. YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!! If Manny was to ever turn out guilty of using any illegal substance I would no longer be #1 PacFan, I would just be #1. It's all good Salt, we'll find some other topic that you can hang with. NEXT!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 01:24:39 PM
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brownsugar@Fe'Roz:
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one of the biggest names in boxing,... Smokin Joe FRazier,.. was called an "uncle Tom" by Muhammad Ali... that's even worse than being called a cheater,.. Joe is still angry to this very day,... BUT WOULD SMOKIN JOE CALL A LAWYER????,...no way man,... he took it out of Ali's arse,.. with an incredible upset,.. even flooring the Greatest with his patented left hook,.. what Pac is doing would have been considered a feminine trait in the 70's,... as far as Pacs punching ability is concerned,.. there's no denying it's effect on Hatton,.. but I have long maintained that Hatton had grown too large years ago to keep forcing himself into the jr welter weight class,.. Hatton looked dead before he even entered the ring... I also watched some footage of Pacman last night,.. I watched his mitt work and training footage along with tapes of Pacman getting knocked out when he was a kid,... then I watched his fight with Morales,.. even though Morales won,. he looked more hurt than Pac even though Pac's eye was busted,.. there's no denying that Pac hits hard even when it seems like he's not getting any leverage to his punches (but an over the hill Berera and Morales survived him),.. and Floyd takes a hell of punch too,.. his training is such that he has incredible recuperative powers,.. and Floyds win over a 154lb DLH was an incredible feat when you consider Oscars world class chin,.. and first rate jab combined with his devastating hook,..Oscar KO'd a lot of difficult boxers,.. nothing Pac has done to date has quite equalled that,.. although his win over Cotto was impressive,.. don't be surprised if Mayweather is standing in the pocket with Pacman,... shoulder to chest by the middle rounds,.. if he survives Pacs furious early rounds assaults(Pac comes out like a ball of fire in the early rounds),.. and Mayweather is standing right in front of Pacman,.. it means that Floyd has him timed and measured,.. and under control..
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 01:47:26 PM
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SALT lover@brownsugar:
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Damn man! You really got it nailed down! I agree Floyd would toy Pacquiao and outbox him easily, but I think it would to a wide Unanimous Decision. And about Frazier and Ali, yeah man, that thing did offended Frazier even to this day. Muhammad Ali had a big mouth back then,and it was 'Smokin' Joe who took back in the ring. I still have that left-hook in my mind in the later ounds, that dropped Ali. But you have to remember, boxin' today is way softer and less competitive than the boxin' in the 70's, 60's, and downward. Today's much more easier to become a World Champion than in those days, considerin' today there are more Weightclasses, and more World Titles. A boxer back in those days dominate EASY against anybody here today. Good writins man!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:00:04 PM
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The Saint:
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@Fe'roz: Actually it'd probably better if you get subjected to a urine test, blood test and have to provide stool samples first before you can throw a punch. lol
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:09:50 PM
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brownsugar@Salt L:
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how true Salt,.. could you picture Howard Cosell interviewing Joe Frazier?,.. after Joe just announced that he was going to sue Ali for defamation of character??,.. Cosell would have said "Surely you jest?",........Manny is very dangerous,.. for sure,.. especially early,.. because he's a compulsively aggresssive fighter who never stops attacking,.. not like a volume puncher like Paul Williams or Aaron Pryor,.. but he attacks in intervals,. behind a very awkward and arythmic head bob,.. while darting in and out with a cobra of a left hand and an equally viperous right hook,.. Floyd is going to get hit,.. maybe even cut,.. but by then,.. both of Pacs eyes should be nearly swollen shut..Floyd just has to watch the first 4-5 rounds very closely...(if they ever fight)
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:17:15 PM
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The Saint:
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@#1 PacFan "P4P Legend": I must disagree with you regarding SALT lover. EVERYBODY gets the best of him. lol
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:18:28 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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@brownsugar, I thought Oscar won that fight against Floyd and it would have been UD if he listen to Roach and stucked with the jab. And that was a fallin hill Oscar that night. Pac beat a pruned Oscar I agree. I totally disagree when you say Oscar ko'd more difficult boxers. Who?
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:18:38 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Brownsugar :
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Now we're talking some boxing ! If you will recall I am on record as saying that I believe Floyd can and very well might stand in the pocket and fight with Manny. And if he doe o that he is as good or better than almost everyone at doing so. His timing is beautiful and he sees what few others see. He can hit (not so often as he likes to be parsimonious) without being hit there as well. If and when they do fight.....and i now absolutely do not believe they will in March....it would be a great fight if Floyd chose that route. Then it coul be a Fight for the ages. A la Duran/Leonard...or Hearns and Leonard. That said, I think you will agree that the one thing very hard to gauge in watching tapes (or watching fights for that matter) is speed. And bot of these guys have it. Cotto was not hit so hard as he was often. He said it himself. So did Oscar (although now he contradicted himself). Miguel said he "couldn't see where the punches were coming from". Oscar said: "it was like there were ten of him". These are quotes from immediately after their respective beatings. Not revisionist rationalizing. Thn there is defense. Floyd's we all know is impeccable. But Manny's, at least in Manny Steward's opinion, is much better than most have credited him for. His coordination (plyometrics, not PEDs) i astounding. He has done some things recently that all the drugs in the world (I should know, I've done almost all of them before I quit them all 25 years ago) could not help him do. That move where he hits (hard) and dips completely out of harm's way is a thing of absolute slo-mo beauty. Now ask me, do I think Floyd can beat Manny. Of course. Do I think it will be a barnburner? No. Would I love to see it? Absolutely!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:22:37 PM
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Fe'Roz @ the Saint:
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Stool Samples !! Now that is a great idea. Then we can test to see how full of sh*t everyone is. You lose either way. If you don't take one, everyone accuses you of being full of it. And if you do, then you know.......
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:27:18 PM
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SALT lover@brownsugar:
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Yeah, I agree with you about the early stages of the fight. Floyd's vulnerability will be the most high in that part of the fight, but after the fourth round, Floyd has him all figured out, and that right hand lead will be the order of the day all night long. PAcquiao has not response to counter-punchers, and I also believe he'll so frustrated by Floyd's foot-work, we're gonna see plenty of times Pacquiao standin' in the middle of the ring, invitin' Floyd to trade, like he always does when he gets hit in the face, somethin' Floyd will not fall that little children's trap, neither in that "catch-weight" games of Freddie "JOKE COACH" Roach, which was a expressed in his weigh-in with Juan Manuel. And about Cosell's interbiew with Frazier XD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You imagine Frazier sayin' he was gonna sue Ali? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! Man, Ali would've had a great comedy show sayin stuff like "The judge better have eye glasses, cuz my defense is just too fast for 'em naked eyes!" and everybody laughin' LOL!!! Good stuff man.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:28:05 PM
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Fe'Roz on ALI/FRAZIER:
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Ali called everyone starting with Liston names. Joe took it personally. The political climate made it worse. So did Joe by standing toe to toe with Richard Nixon along with Sammy Davis Jr. Those were volatile times culturally and politically. But being called an "Uncle Tom" did not do the kind of damage to Joe's reputation that would have professionally impaired his ability to earn his rightful living. Floyd may have just crossed that line. I leave that for Dan Petrocelli to find out. The good news is ....and this is true of all of the artist's that I represent.... that the higher personal expenses, the more we can expect to see them work. With the spectre of an expensive lawsuit and an IRS that, once on, never lets you off their radar...you/we can expect to see a lot of Floyd for many years.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:37:24 PM
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The Saint:
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This is what's happening to Pacquiao. It's like someone accusing him of cheating on his wife when nobody has ever seen him with another woman, and they are asking him to put a camera in his bedroom that could be remotely turned on at any given time, to prove to everyone that he is not cheating on his wife. Just because he doesn't agree to that, it doesn't necessarily mean he's guilty. Maybe he has a small male part and he doesn't want people to know.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:39:13 PM
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The Saint:
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This is what's happening to Pacquiao. It's like someone accusing him of cheating on his wife when nobody has ever seen him with another woman, and they are asking him to put a camera in his bedroom that could be remotely turned on at any given time, to prove to everyone that he is not cheating on his wife. Just because he doesn't agree to that, it doesn't necessarily mean he's guilty. Maybe he has a small male part and he doesn't want people to know.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:39:18 PM
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brownsugar@Fe'Roz:
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the thing is nobody seems to ever throw the right when Floyd is in the pocket,.. but Mannys quickness and short arms may help disrupt the Mayweather cocoon,. in close Mayweather holds his chin down and watches his opponents torso and elbows.. what he doesn't see,... he can feel... that's why he seems to have a crystal ball when he's on the inside and knows which way to cover... Roach will teach Pac some strategy to penetrate his shell... but once Floyd figures out the programming,.. it could be business as usual again... to be truthful Pac has to go all out Kamikaze in there,.. but he has the conditioning to do it... Garcia tried it,. and was nearly successful,..he was throwing a punch every second against Floyd until the uppercuts got to him...as far as Pac is concerned he still must be considered deadly dangerous because of his speed and power,.. now if Floyd skips around the ring allnight,.. we may see a boring potshot kind of close victory that you would expect from Floyd...I'm hoping Floyd goes in to make a statement,.. which he sometimes does in big fights... then we'll see a barnburner....
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:41:03 PM
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MisterLee:
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@ B-sug, you are right, Ali was VERY insulting beyond simply a press conference. HOWEVER, we're not talking about degrees here, making an insult and namecalling is different from making false illegal accusations. They're just not different categories, there are different legal conditions for those two things. So are you saying Mosley sued BALCO b/c his feelings were hurt and they called him names? We're pretty much talking about similar issues here, except BALCO had Mosley on a client's list and Mayweather Sr. don't have anything but that void of a feeling Sunday morning, May 3rd and bad poetry. Also, you may or may not be right about Floyd vs. Manny fight in the ring, but I would LOVE floyd to sign the contract, they can work out details later. Didn't you say if Floyd doesn' t take on a tough opponent (ie- Pacquiao, Mosley, or Williams) you'd start to question his level of competition yourself? If not those 3, cotto, clottey, margarito out of suspension. andre berto, or luis collazo are still out there. What I'm asking is for him to at least take on a top 5 or top 10 welter for a tune up or small time PPV event early 2010 and set up 1-2 mega fights later on. I heard Matthew hatton is like ricky without the punch power and aggression. Then what's the point, Floyd is just catering to a fan base, (he's aiming for a Miley Cyrus pop song, not a Jimmi Hendrix riff by comparison) not aiming for legacy. So what if he'll be 41-0. He'll keep hyping his fights like RJJ, and 24/7 will once again full the idiots into thinking the fights will be competitive... with a couple press conferences, some inside look at pad work, some trash talk... some "I didn't this far to lose".... "I worked real hard in the gym we'll be ready... I'll be using a secret in the fight... you'll see (didn't rubio say this?!)" .... I wish men's boxing were like women's boxing, all heart and no talk... or heck, men's boxing like the lower weight classes.... darchinyan or donaire will have NO qualms with getting in the ring with anyone, even a larger Juanma. Those guys are so hungry. The welters and up have bigger purses and therefore have the luxary of some cotton feet negotiating... tho it is a huge generalization as.. pacquiao, mosley, williams, cotto, clottey, collazo, quintana, heck even cintron, gomez, berto would absolutely do NO weird negotiating tactics and would be up for fighting the best at 147. It's only Insecure Floyd. If he's such a businessman let the business side do the talking and stop making it personal. Holler!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:42:34 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Brownsugar:
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Now you got me excited ! In those first scenarios we have ourselves a fight. In the latter, we might have a "No Mas" without the "No".
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:45:21 PM
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SALT lover@Fe'ROZ:
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The IRS thin' is for real, but that so-called lawsuit is all bluff, and I dare to say it at this point. Pacquiao's not gonna sue Floyd. If he was serious about suing Floyd, he'd probably prepared it quietly, and done the lawsuit as a surprise. Besides, he would've done before. XD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know that's probably what you want, but nobody can't talk about as if it is real, cuz it ain't.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:45:52 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Salt:
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Salt, what I want is for these two to sit down quietly, out of the public's eye and ear, and negotiate their differences. Then get it on. What we have is a mess. From the very beginning. First the allegations. Then, and a pox on all their house, the principals for taking this negotiation into the public arena. They should all just chill. Let it stew in public.... but work it out and get it on. March, May, September, I don't care. But not doing so is a travesty fo' sho'
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:52:50 PM
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brownsugar@#1 PacFan:
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#1, the fight was very close... Oscar had some lapses in there where he was just watching Floyd without doing anything,.. and Floyd managed to potshot him from the outside. I watched it about 5 times.. as boring as it was,.. but the punchstats shows Floyd throwing fewer but landing about a 80 more punches overall. as far as Oscars KO power,.. he was always known to be more likely to KO his opponent,.. than to win on points,.. like Mayorga for example... and very tough bully who was terrorizing the division... Oscar would knock those type of guys out without breaking a sweat...he was so dominating,.. (he easily beat Tito even though he was robbed) that DLH thought he was ready for BHOP,.. and was actually winning,..before Bhop finally saw an opening for the liver shot... and truthfully,.. Bhop was waiting the whole fight for that one opportunity... because he was being out boxed...Oscar was a beast... and sometimes he got some poor decisions.. but he was definitely elite...
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:54:30 PM
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SALT lover@Fe'ROZ:
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Yeah, it's a mess, but they ain't gonna do that. These two are bitter enemies in and outside the ring. But yeah, let's get it on!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:55:24 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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@B-Sug, regarding your Ali-Frazier namecalling. Frazier did get affected throughout his career but not by his fans. Most of the fans knew it was just to get to Frazier's skin and it sure did. But namecalling and false accusation are two different things. Frazier never got downgraded with his legacy by the namecalling but Pacquiao's legacy is being tarnished by the false accusations. It's like the opposite, Manny can shrug off the false accusations if he could but can't cause too much damage already done while Frazier can't shrug off the namecalling because it wasn't about his career it was about his personal dignity.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:58:15 PM
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Jason:
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Good points brownsugar. Joe Frazier is on record as saying he tried to kill Ali, literally, for all the very personal and hurtful insults (I wish I had the exact quote on hand, but it's in Thomas Hauser's biography of Ali, and elsewhere I presume). Ricardo Mayorga is another one that crossed the line of decency (understatement), but most guys did as Joe Frazier and punished him as opposed to hiring Roy Black, etc. The only area I disagree with you is in calling Floyd's win over Oscar "an incredible feat." It was a moderately good and unspectacular win. Remember, going into the fight with Mayweather, Oscar was 7-3 this century (should have been 6-4 because he lost to Sturm), with his best win against a post-Trinidad never-the-same-again Vargas in 2002. Oscar was barely active and his best days were behind him (as evidenced by the terrible Forbes fight that would follow the Mayweather loss). I suppose Floyd deserves credit for beating a durable 154 pounder (which Oscar was), but that's about it. At the time of that fight, Oscar was at best a lower-tier top-10 junior middleweight.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 02:58:49 PM
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MisterLee:
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@ B-sug... Floyd IS a great welter weight, I'll admit that, has he fought "the best" in his division? I would say no, did he before in 05-06? Some would say so, it's arguable. Has he faced the best in 07 and out of retirement in 09? I would say no. Most of you said "he JUST came out of retirement, he's scare of no one, he's a pro fighter, just give him time and he'll PROVE you. If he doesn't fight anyone good next, then I'll say he's ducking, LET'S WAIT and SEE". I'm using the floyd fans' words before, and waiting and seeing is hopefully what will happen and hopefully floyd will fight pac mosley or williams next. So now it's 2010, and it's been half a decade since Floyd challenged the best in the welterweight division, what are WE to expect next? What are you takes if Floyd avoids: Cotto, clottey, williams, berto, pacquiao, mosley, quintana, cintron, collazo for another year, what can we say? ANYWAY... on the fight... here's my take: Floyd's punches have angles, but his footwork moves in straight lines. He's most comfortable moving forward and back, measuring his distance, hitting his opponent when he comes in, or throwing lead lefts and rights... but what happens with two scenarios: 1.) pressure fighter with good head movement 2.) quick boxer who has power. Castillo can be said as one guy got to bang on Floyd, and Oscar DIDN'T do that bad with Floyd for an aging fighter. The over hand right over top the lowered left hand of the shoulder roll, and the left hook to the body was pretty nice tactic. Manny Pacquiao is literally 6 times faster (no hyperbole) than 154 oscar of 2007. Zab Judah did GREAT agst Floyd for 5 rounds. His speed made Floyd uncomfortable b/c it was comparable, his STRAIGHT left hit floyd square on the chin many times b/c Floyd likes to move his feet in straight lines. The reason IMO is that neither Roger Mayweather nor Floyd May Sr. had good lateral footwork, and They were the only ones to ever train Floyd, and the only ones that ever will (could ever imagine Floyd hiring a veteran trainer like Manny Steward, Nasim "The Genie" Richardson, or Jack Loew *cough*? His ego is too big...he thinks he's already the best, what he does already work, why change? [notice Jermaine Taylor and Cotto have the same mentality with reference to their refusal to hire a new veteran trainer]). Have you seen any evolution of Floyd Mayweather since 2005? Zab Judah gave floyd his first legitimate knockdown at 1:59 of the 2nd round, off a counter right that Richard Steele counted as a No-Knockdown. The instant replay shows it was a clear right hook to the temple, that Floyd staggered and put his right glove down. Floyd has unofficially lost to Castillo and has been unofficially knocked down by Judah. Pacquiao punches harder and faster than Judah, is smarter than Judah, is in better shape than Judah, has better defense than Judah, doesn't lose his cool or focus like Judah, and has more skills than Judah. Floyd hasn't shown anything new since 2005, and I have a feeling he'll duck all top 5 welters in 2010, but I could be wrong, and I hope I'm wrong. I LOVE how Mayweather fights, I HATE how he negotiates. For me, Pacquiao negotiates like Cotto, doesn't duck anyone, let's the company make the right decisions for him, and fights his heart out in the ring. Holler!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:04:06 PM
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brownsugar@Mister Lee:
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MisterLee I don't condone that type of talk,.. or justify it,.. but these are fighters for Christsakes,.. if Manny just punishes Floyd in the ring,.. after he's taken the bloodtest and has been deemed "Clean",.. his ATG stock rises,.. and his accomplishments will never be doubted again... his popularity and acclaim will be unmatched,.. people will stand him shoulder to should with Leonard, Hearns,.. Duran and the like,.. Manny has to know this,.. and he can still pursue the litigation... what better way to make his legal case,.. an ironclad one,.... and gain public redemption too??? he'll be the first boxer to make the Wallstreet times in years...
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:04:49 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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@B-Sug, Yes the fight was close but I had the fight for Oscar. One of the rounds could have been a draw but I gave to Oscar because of his body language and wanting to engage. Remember that we can rely on the punch stat numbers if one is throwing the crispier punches. If that was the case then both of the fights with Pac-Marquez should've belonged to Pac. Mayorga was a punching bag and Vargas was flat-footed. Oscar was great up until he meet Trinidad, he gave that fight away and he lost me a couple hundred bucks. A prime Oscar at 147 would still lose to Pac of today. I don't think Mayweather is going to stand in the pocket and try to make a statement. He will get hurt cause the only way I see Mayweather winning is if he keeps finding on his toes moving backwards or turning him.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:08:26 PM
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mortcola@SALT:
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Hi SALT - Which fanatic are you talking about? Anyway, to me, the whole point is that there was never any reason for Floyd's people to make the demand. All honesty - I've followed PBF since the amateurs. I saw him as the most gifted of his generation, up there is SRL, Don Curry, Hearns - someone we'd be talking about in amazed terms for years. Its just that, no matter how great his performances are - even his low punch outputs are part of his mastery, doing so much so efficiently - there's so much BS in the promotion of every fight, so much bad acting, acting bad, crazy family and entourage, and no apparent HUNGER to fight the best, that I could no longer root for the guy. And then this testing thing just put it over the top. Goes against what I personally believe a man and a champion does. Some people have made it about race - that pisses me off too, especially since most of my heros just happen to be black, and besides, it distracts from the boxing. That's what this is about - the boxing. If you have to go through a whole swamp of WWF-style yelling, finger-pointing, playing the bad guy, hyping by playing the evil-fool, the boxing's not fun anymore. What PBF does is on a whole different level than an Ali or even a Bernard Hopkins- two guys whose antics were offensive, but who I always rooted for. They had, and have, a work ethic that makes the fight-selling bs tolerable. I don't need everyone to be a gentleman, like Arguello, or like Tim Bradley. But the combination of the Lindsey Lohan -style scandals and I'm-a-diva-and-my-familys-insane-and-everyone-has-to-dance-to-my-tune just makes me ....not a hater...but, truly, a disrespector. And, you know what else? Someone that gifted doesn't need it. The other side of that coin is that it makes me think that if he weren't so insanely gifted, he wouldn't be a fighter. Some guys - Hagler, for instance - go in with decent athletic ability, courage, and a blue-collar willingness to learn the craft and take the pain better than the other guy. For PBF, its a circus act, and while you have to be amazed at the high-wire performance, I didn't get into boxing because I love the circus. I just hope this helps explain what might look like "hatin'". Boxing is about life, for me, I believe in the honor and sacrifice part of it, and some kinds of behavior just offend me like someone farting out loud in church and then laughing about it. Happy New Year, and thanks for spicin' up the dialogue.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:14:17 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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You just know that Roach has to want this fight ... just for the challenge. Nobody knows better what Oscar can and cannot do....... or should I say did or did not do. You know Freddie must want this opportunity to try to beat Floyd. And Manny is his best weapon.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:14:26 PM
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brownsugar@Jason:
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Good research Jason and an excellent rebuttal,.. but if Oscar was somewhat used up and limited at 154 .... 4 years ago.... then what version was Manny fighting 4 years later,.. a 145 lb resurrected zombie?? that got lumped up against 2lbs Forbes.... and Manny couldn't drop him for the count... yet he gets more acclaim than Floyd.. I know I'm shifting issues here,.. but Floyd was a natural 143 lbs then and the last thing on a fighter to go is his power... it's a known fact that a clean blow from Oscar at nearly any point in his career,.. could do damage. and if Oscar didn't have the credibility of being super dangerous.. 2.4 million fans wouldn't have tuned in to watch the boring affair...
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:15:34 PM
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The Saint:
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@brownsugar: Only Mayweather fans and jealous fighters "doubt" Pacquiao's accomplishments. In reality, they don't doubt it, they DENY reality. Pacquiao doesn't need to bother himself with proving those doubters wrong. TRUE boxing experts and historians will never question Pacquiao's accomplishments and talent. @Misterlee: I always say that Mayweather was a great lightweight, but as a welterweight he's proven to so far to be just better than average. As you said, he hasn't fought any top welterweight and the ones he has beaten have been beaten more convincingly by other fighters who fought them before Mayweather did. De La Hoya brutally beat Gatti and stopped him quicker than Mayweather did. Judah was stopped in 2 rounds by KT (not even gonna try to spell that). De La Hoya was spanked my Mosley when De La Hoya was at or very near his prime, and got knocked out by Hopkins. Mayweather hasn't proven anything as a welterweight besides his ability to avoid getting in the ring with the likes of Cotto, Mosley, Margarito, Williams and now, Pacquiao. Also, as I've said many times before, Ray Leonard took 3 years off and moved UP in weight to challenge the cream of the crop in Marvin Hagler, whereas Mayweather took less than two years off and challenged a 36-year old, battle-worn, bloated lightweight to move up to welterweight.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:19:21 PM
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brownsugar@#1 PacFan:
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I thought Floyd fought a tactical fight and deserved the win... in fact it looked like he won to me,.. Oscars shoe shine work didn't yield any fruit because he didn't land any thing... but we'll have to agree to disagree on that one... if the fight does happen,.. I hope that Floyd moves in on Manny like he did against N'dou, Corrales,.. Hatton, Garcia,.. and Gatti... I hope he makes it personal and fights to the highest of his potential...if he doesn't want to... I have a feeling Pac will force it out of him anyway...Pac's pressure will be the key.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:24:05 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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The common denominator of fan loyalty through the ages has been performance in the ring. Where the real battle are fought. That is the only test of a man. Ali, Frazier,Leonard, Hearns, Duran.... will always be remembered for his first and foremost for their battles in the Ring. Jordan, with the flu, for his final shot. For the ring. The list is as long as the history of man. The media will always find new faces, new stories, new stars. But glory is won in the arena of one's choosing. In boxing, it is in the ring; testing yourself against the very best.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:29:17 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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@mortcola, great post man. I think we have some similarities here. I followed Mayweather's career as well and I've seen him and first discovered him in the amateurs. I've seen clips when he was in the Olympics. My ATG fighter is SRL and I thought he was the next closes thing like Kobe similar to MJ. Mayweather had enormous talent still do and I was so excited about him. I was in awe when he took out two of the top guys at 130 and 135. I still followed his career at 140 hoping he would fight Tzyu. That's where I lost him because he never wanted to fight the best. I always said to myself that with his talent he could've have fought better opponents.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:31:26 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Brownsugar/Jason:
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Don't you think it's a bit suspicious that Floyd went up to 154 so easily... Just foolin'
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:32:14 PM
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The Saint:
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@brownsugar: The version of De La Hoya that Pacquiao fought was the version that was viewed by experts to be deserving of being the 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 favorite, whatever it was, despited being "lumped up by Steve Forbes." Are boxing analysts that stupid to not see beforehand that Pacquiao would annihilate Oscar? Or are they just so biased against a small fighter from the third world that they won't allow themselves to give him any credit at all? Had Pacquiao followed De La Hoya's script and layed down like all the previous featherweights DLH had fought, DLH would've been vindicated and nobody would've suspected DLH of being weight drained. But since Pacquiao did what he did, the consesus was that DLH was washed up and weight drained. Pacquiao gets more credit than floyd because 1) Floyd was favored to beat DLH. 2) Oscar lost more convincingly to Shane Mosley when Oscar was till at the top of his game. The #1 pound for pound fighter should've schooled a post-prime DLH but instead escaped with a controversial split decision that even his own father said should've gone to De La Hoya.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:32:51 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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@Fe'Roz, I have that on tape when MJ pressed on the brakes to make the final shot. The best to ever played the game hands down.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:34:20 PM
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MIsterLee:
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Yo dudes! How come no Floyd fans responded to my last comment. I'm not trying to be a jerk and I'm not trying to start an argument. I just want to know what happens IF Floyd goes thru 2010 without fighting Berto, Mosley, Williams, Quintana, Pacquiao, Cotto, Clottey, and Collazo? If nothing else can he still admit he's "fought the best"? Just a simple question. Thanks!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:34:56 PM
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brownsugar@The Saint:
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Saint,.. please dont try to use that tired PacTards vs Floyd Nuthuggers manipulation on me,.. it doesn't work... I like both fighters immensely ,.. but refuse to buy into the commercially popular or so called politically correct view..that says because Pac beat certain starved and washed up fighters he is now elevated to ATG status,... Floyd is the door,.. the portal,.. that Pac must go thru to reach ATG supremacy,... (or at least Mosely before he gets any older) and none of Floyds wins come by way of beating starved fighters. if he doesn't,.. the asterkist will always remain... like it does next to Joe Calzaghes name...
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:35:47 PM
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MisterLee @ #1 pacfan:
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MJ's work ethic, competitive spirit, and team work was bar-none. I was a teenager during his reign in the 90's, got to witness 2 different three-peats. What a feat! Like Kobe is to Jordan, Floyd's personality and ego gets in the way of his greatness. Jordan was able to transcend the self, Kobe will always be remembered as a great player, but an icon he is not.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:37:59 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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I know my idols and they always seem to succeed. SRL, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Michael Jordan, and now Manny Pacquiao. Almost one in every sport.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:38:59 PM
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MisterLee @ B-sug:
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Which one was more vulnerable? Cotto at 145, or Marquez at 144? That's a fight I woulda loved to see... Cotto vs.Marquez at 144.5 lbs. I feel Cotto at 145 could still have been dangerous for anyone, Clottey, Mayweather, Berto, Collazo, Gomez again, Quintana again etc. Marquez at 144 woulda gotten beat by Collazo, gomez, berto , mosley , wiliiams etc. So to be objective, Floyd's accomplishment over marquez pales to pacquiao's over cotto. Sooo... anyone like Ali Funeka? He got way more muscular and looked like he power punched more than the twig who fought Nate, but i'm wondering as tall as he is how he lets shorter fighters get inside to him so fast whereas the Klitschkos can keep their opponents at a distance (besides the fact that the average lightweight is much better than then best contender at heavyweight). Holler!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:43:34 PM
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The Saint:
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@brownsugar: How is Floyd Mayweather "the portal" when he hasn't beaten any top welterweight?
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:44:31 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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@MisterLee, MJ's legacy is beyond compare. He proved he is a menacing one man player by dunking on every player available and in his prime was the best team player in his era. He made everyone around him play better. I think if he hadn't retire he would have won those title consecutively. He was an icon worldwide and I mean WORLDWIDE. You were from a different planet if you didn't know MJ.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:44:49 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Brownsugar:
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I think you have it the other way around. Manny is Floyd's portal. That may not be fair but it's the truth. Manny has won acclaim. In the ring. Worldwide. He's got more that boxing glory. He's got TIME-Magazine fame. I think that is the pill that makes it so hard to swallow for Floyd fans. After all, they are effectively the only ones defaming him. Oh, and Joe Calzaghe! Seriously, you can't really compare either one of these two to Joe. I mean he had a perfect record and.....
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:45:10 PM
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MisterLee @ #1 pacsage:
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youtube Yuan wen qing and Yang shi wen and Zhao chang jun for' sure! They are my idols for wushu. They're like the michael jordans of modern wushu. I used to LOVE the 49'ers. I had a 49'ers jacket too! Remember bo jackson? Bo knows! Holler!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:45:49 PM
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brownsugar@Mister Lee:
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if Floyd can beat Pacman,.. he can retire with full honors as far as I'm concerned... he's been fighting for about 17 years now,.. so I'll let the young guns carry the banner,..it's all about continuity let the next generation take over..I don't like Floyd that much,.. bring on the next Duran, Leonard, Pacman and Hearns and maybe Calzaghe
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:45:50 PM
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The Saint:
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@Misterlee: Floyd fans don't answer anything based on facts and you won't get a straight answer for them. They still can't answer why Floyd is the top dogg when he hasn't fought any of the top fighters in his weightclass for the LAST FIVE YEARS. If Floyd doesn't fight any top fighters in 2010, I'm sure it's because everybody's afraid to fight him. lol.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:48:08 PM
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MisterLee:
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@ B-sug, I would still want to see more from Floyd whether or not he wins or fights pac. Cotto's fought : judah, quintana, mosley, clottey, and margarito, pacquiao within a 3 year span, why can't all fighters prove themselves this way? You spat some truth tho, 'nuff said!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:49:00 PM
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MisterLee @ the Saint:
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Let's be easy on B-sug, he's the most logical and objective of all the Floyd fans, and he spits some righteous boxing most the time. You should see when he's hot. But you are dropping bombs tho. Let's try not to antagonize the pple for their thoughts. Ali, real talk, and salt lover are real good p4p'ers , but they get real emotional over floyd that's all. Salt used to be Marg's number 1 fan, so he 's a very passionate fan. Where's Anony? If any fight gets stuck, we can always count on Anony Promotions to get the job done.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:52:44 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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@MisterLee, LMAO! Bo was the shiznitz! Remember the MJ coke commercials? MJ gliding in the air like E.T.. Everyone wanted to be like Mike I played a little ball myself. Still a niner fan but they have don't crap since 94.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:54:39 PM
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MisterLee:
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Yo Saint, your shiz be universally acclaimed here, and we have a tough crowd, fo' sure! We oughta start a thread sometime talking about our involvement with the sport and special highlights in our involvement (ie- gatti ward 1 etc where were you?) @ Fe'roz the pharaoh. I just morales barrera 1 & 3 last week. What a F**cki'n GREAT FIGHT! OMFG. Those guys were going at it, unbelievable. Holler!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:55:02 PM
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MisterLee @ #1 pacsage:
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Bball was m y number one love before i took up martial arts. I used to ball all the time... remember Tim Hardaway's "baby crossover". Remember Harold Miner aka: "Baby Jordan" and Penny Hardaway or Nick Anderson's "MJ just dosen't have it any more" in his coming out of retirement... john stockton... the general, the mailman, patrick ewing...
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:57:10 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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I agree with MisterLee, brownsugar is one if the best out of the Floyd fans to know their stuff. He's a fan of both which I used to be and I totally respect him for that. RealTalk is too.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 03:58:41 PM
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brownsugar@Fe'Roz & The Saint:
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Manny has yet to beat a real welterweight,.. so far he's beaten a junior welter (Hatton),.. and 2 starved battle wearied Catch Weights... Floyd has already beaten more and better challengers at 147,.. by disposing of Oscar, Baldomir, & Judah,.. Baldomir and Judah may not be on anybodies P4P list,.. but they didn't have to starve below they're optimum weights and came into the fight without having been hamstrung by malnutrition...and who was David Diaz??,.. Pacmans most notable win to date has been Marquez and Cotto,.. most people thought Marquez won,.. I watched the fight last night and it could have been a draw,. and we know Cotto came into the fight with sunken eyes that were wider that golf balls... I'm not saying anything negative about Pacs fighting abilities,.. but those fights were designed to build confidence and win fan approval.. now it's time to face the REAL WELTERWEIGHTS,.. in their own element... (at least one good one before he retires)
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:00:09 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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You forgot Spud Webb 5'5" and winning the dunk contest. Remember Shaq breaking the court not one but two and three. He should have stayed retired because I couldn't bare watching him play at that age.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:03:04 PM
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Jason:
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"...but if Oscar was somewhat used up and limited at 154 .... 4 years ago.... then what version was Manny fighting 4 years later,.. a 145 lb resurrected zombie?? that got lumped up against 2lbs Forbes.... and Manny couldn't drop him for the count." Absolutely right sugarman. Even Pacquiao's most zealous supporters admit that his win over De La Hoya did two things: (1) It set himself up for life financially and (2) it introduced him to the mainstream public in the States. As far as legacy, it did very little for PacMan, considering the man he beat was a 145 pound resurrected zombie, or an 'empty vessel' (as Bernard Fernandez best put it). My problem with Floyd is that he's the self-proclaimed best ever P4P, better than SRR, Ali, Joe Louis, etc, and yet, as Saint said, he chose 'a 36-year old, battle-worn, bloated lightweight to move up to welterweight' as his so-called comeback fight. I don't know how good Floyd is. I suppose he has tremendous self-doubt masked behind the arrogance and chutzpah he exudes, because otherwise he'd have already fought any number of the top-tier guys that are available in the talent-laden welterweight division. Moreover, he certainly would NOT have taken on a pudgy JMM as his 'comeback' fight, and he'd SHOUT to the world that he is absolutely NOT considering a fight with Matthew Hatton in the event this fight dies. If he's as good as he proclaims, then he'd say 'Look, the Pacquiao fight fell through for reasons that need not be rehashed here, and I'm looking to bolster my legacy and tackle the biggest challenge available, and that's a fight with Kelly Pavlik, the undisputed middleweight champion of the world. I want to follow in the footsteps, and replicate, what the great Sugars, Ray Robinson and Ray Leonard, did before me.'
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:05:23 PM
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brownsugar@Mister Lee:
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you guys have me on the defense now,... but I shall return after a much needed water bottle and cold steel to apply to my shiner.. pc out fellas..
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:05:41 PM
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MisterLee:
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He won a dunk contest? Spud webb, mugsy bogues... wow.. amazing. Larry johnson, shawn kemp, clyde the glide! Yeah, "Never lose the funk of a nasty dunk" or something... @ b-sug, oscar wasn't at 147, anyone strong fighter at 147 woulda been quite dangerous.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:07:44 PM
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MisterLee @ b-sug:
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I ain't tryin' to attack, but I see there is some backlash from others in the forum, i got nothing but respect for you, i feel it's more healthy discussion than attacking, but enjoy your break :).
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:09:49 PM
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brownsugar@Jason:
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Jason I can't argue with a single word of that,..it would be a legacy fight for sure,.. and would certainly insure his place in the pantheon of boxing heroes fo sho,..I think he could pull it off.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:10:48 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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@brownsugar, a fight between 141-147 is considered a welterweight fight. Oscar would have said something after the fight if he wasn't feeling 100%(now he is trying to redeem his lost by the accusations) but he didn't. He went along with the critics when they said he was dehydrated. That was a shell shocked Oscar that night but not a dehydrated one. Cotto was in his best shape and I say this because he never looked so conditioned. If you think just because he didn't weigh in at the exact Welterweight that he's weight drained then think again. Most of the past Welteweights have weighed in between 145-147, I guess we can say they were dehydrated. SRL, SRR, Homicide Hank, Duran, etc. were all weight drained because they weighed in at 145.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:12:46 PM
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The Saint:
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@brownsugar: There's nothing about the way Cotto fought that would indicate that he wasn't in great shape. Anything over 140 is legit welterweight. If you claim that the two pounds Cotto had to shed made him significantly weaker, then I say the two pounds Mayweather refused to shed and never had any intention of shedding against Marquez made Mayweather significantly stronger, thereby making him an official cheater. Baldomir better than Cotto? LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. I'm going to sue you. I almost broke my hip as I fell on the floor laughing.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:14:22 PM
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the Roast:
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Dont fake the funk on no nasty dunk! The Roast used to run the floor a little bit back in the day. Coast to coast.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:15:26 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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@MisterLee, yes Spub Webb who is 5'5" tall but MJ didn't enter the contest on that year. I think he outjumped his height. I think I'm going to take a break, this week I have wins over Salt, Frank Z, and t dogg. Boya!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:18:44 PM
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SALT lover@Jason:
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I completely agree with you, dude. Almost everythin' you say is True. Floyd's my favorite fighter, but he's dead wrong when he self-proclaims the best ever. 'Sugar' Ray Robinson IS THE BEST BOXER EVER still today. And I also agree that at 140lbs he didn't fought True competition, and should start to step it up in 147lbs. However, Floyd is the most skilled fighter in this closin' decade, and I would even dare to say the past decade, when he first became a World Champion. He just can do it all i the ring, excpet KO with one punch an opponent. But the rest he does it all well, even brawl if he has, or wants to. But about being the best that ever lived, I have to disagree with him. Good writin' Jason, and same for brownsugar. Later dudezzz!!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:20:08 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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Whaddup Roast?! Man you have been MIA for the last what? Year. Join the festival we having a field day over here.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:21:26 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Brownsugar:
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Floyd could've called out cotto. And he never had a problem setting a 'catchweight' as long as he was the catcher.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:29:01 PM
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brownsugar@#1 PacFan:
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and this is directed at The Saint too,.. I was at a fight party at my sons house for Cotto vs Pac,.. my son's girl friend is Asian and also a fan of Manny's,.. she's not hard core,.. but she and the other young ladies in attendance commented that Cotto's face looked real sunken in,.. they started asking me want was wrong with him... it's my belief that if Cotto could have brought in that extra pound and half worth of calories,.. then he would have been much more competitive... to Cotto's credit he says he was in the best shape ever... but he would never supply an excuse no matter what happens in the ring... I think the weight loss affected his mental focus as well. cause after having a good round one,.. he abandoned his strategy and let Pacman close the distance where he hit him and turned him repeatedly ...
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:31:48 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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It must be tough in there fightin' off all these punches in bunches. I wish I could help you. My wife told me to try more 'empathy' but I'm still struggling. Meanwhile, you might tell L'il Floyd what it feels like when you're getting hit from who knows where... peace
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:32:55 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Brownsugar:
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That last one was for you. And so is this one. That look on Cotto's face. That was the look of a man confident in one of two things. Either that his punch was bigger than the smaller man...or that he was going to get beat. That same 'I'm-not-sure-far-away" stare was the one Hatton wore to the Executioner.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:37:33 PM
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brownsugar@Fe'Roz:
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well at least none of his opponents had to starve... and for the record.. Mayweather fought some of his best fights where his opponent outweight him... like Corrales... Castillo by 9 pounds,. and Oscar... but I though JMM would have been more competitive,.. he looked as desiel as Holyfield... and had been drinking Quail eggs and tossing boulders off the sides of volcanoes,.. I thought for sure he would catch Mayweather with something decent... but it seemed like Mayweather didn't even feel his punches... one thing I noticed about JMM,... when he's under attack,. he becomes extremely dangerous even when he's been shaken,.. in fact he fights better after being hurt... strong little guy,... I see now how he got up and fought Pac to a standstill after getting decked 3 times... I'm looking forward to seeing Marquez against Hatton... I think he'll find some redemption by finishing off Hatton for good if the fight,..
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:41:47 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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@brownsugar, Cotto looked strong that night more than ever. Manny punch him with every punch he threw and Cotto took them. Cotto looked the same way on the night of the fight with Marg. Just that Marg swelled up his cheeks so bad from the loaded gloves. Watch that fight and you'll see the same look on Cotto.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:43:22 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Brownsugar:
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Agreed. On JMM
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:46:06 PM
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brownsugar@Fe'Roz:
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Yeah,.. regarding the look on Cotto's face... my son who is better than me at calling fights said that ever since Cotto was "submitted" by Margarito,.. he said Cotto can now see his own mortality,.. the aura of invicibility he once had irreversably cracked... and Cotto's threshold for punishment had been lowered along with his will to win... only his dedication to the sport and years of mental conditioning that says never quit but go out on your sheld kept him in the fight as long as it did... My son said that every time Cotto looked at Pacman,.. he saw the image of Margarito and accepted his inevitiable fate as champions do... Well I'm really going to take a break now... pc...
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:50:08 PM
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brownsugar@#1 PacFan:
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yeah we often wondered by Cotto seemed to be suffering from punches that looked like they were being thrown almost casually by Margarito.. while Cotto was twisting his whole body to avoid them so he wouldn't have to take the punch in the same place.... pc...
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 04:52:54 PM
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MisterLee:
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Cotto vs. mosley was definitely a different cotto. Tho cotto didn't completely beat up mosley nor whoop him, and mosley did have his moments... cotto's mentality was always to be patient and to break down his opponent step by step. His punches to the body were hammers, his left hook head shots were well timed. After marg, with only the clottey and the manny fight to watch, he no longer sought to break opponents down slowly. He fought like a patient brawler waiting to explode, he had two modes, offense or defense. Whenever mosley rallied in their fight, cotto would bang to the body. The new cotto fought more to win rounds, and not necessarily to see his opponents drop their hands and limp in round 8. I think the 2007 version of cotto at 147 would have had a decent chance of beating 2009 pacquiao, heck even the april 2008 cotto for that matter. Also, i think cotto needs a new trainer. Joe "el nuevo" Santiago is not his best match. Put him in the nazim camp, train with mosley for' sure! Holler!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 05:01:08 PM
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MisterLee:
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Also, post Marg, cotto would always backpedal at round 6. To cotto's credit in pac fight, he coulda finished round 12 on his feet in my opinion, in what condition? I dunno, but the boricua has no quit in him (whoever thought he was a "quitter" in marg fight.) Holler!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 05:02:39 PM
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Radam G -- _____most people r not n da loop, others r n da dark:
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For the record, GOAT Ali never called anybody anything that would be grounds for a lawsuit. You have to lie about an act that will or may cause damage to one's livelihood. Calling someone ugly or a gorrilla or an "Uncle Tom or any racist or ethnical epithet is not court action. You can do character assassinations about looks and commitments. GOAT Ali use to call just about all his black opponents "polk-chop-and-pig-feet eatin' [the N-word]. He called the white ones "white devil(s) and the P-word. GOAT Ali was no saint. He even talked about some fighters "momma." GOAT Ali was the archmaster of smash talk -- psy-ops. It is all part of the game. But outright damaging a person's rep is not. Lou DiBella won a lawsuit against B-Hop for doing that. Yall musta' fo'got. Losing that lawsuit may be one of the reason that B-Hop is still fighting and working for GBP. And there will be a lawsuit filed against Family Mayweather and GBP, rightfully so. If somebody believes that it is a bluff, that is because people don't know this hurt bitnezz. Those are tons of lawsuits and settlements that are deliverly clouded for them to go over the fans' and fanfaronades' and haters' heads. Such as GBP lawsuit against Manny, Manny lawsuit against GBP and Murad Muhammad Production, Bob Arum lawsuit against Big Money Oscar, Terry Norris lawsuit against Don King, Mike Tyson lawsuit against Don King, and a certain ex-boxer who I know so well that I see him shadowing me 24-7 lawsuits against Don King, Murad Muhammad, the IBF, the WBF, the WBO, and the California and Texas commissions. Manny is going to whup Money May twice in civil court and in the legal mayhem squared jungle. Holla 4 dolla! Cry for some pie! Sue! Manny! Sue! If you don't believe that he will, Money May has made another BIG FOOL out of YOU! Holla!
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 05:26:36 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Radam:
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And he shall reap what he has sown. Amen.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 05:47:47 PM
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Raye Mitchell:
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Mosely was a client with Balco while he was fighting and being tested by the nevada commission and never tested positive. But his use of PED's is a matter of public record. This kind of testing could be a great thing for an indiviualised sport such as boxing. Take the test fight and end all this uninformed worthless debate among spectators.
Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 10:46:20 PM
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Angie And Goody...23 Years Later
Twenty three years later after they seconded Marvin Hagler and Ray Leonard in Las Vegas, Goody Petronelli and Angelo Dundee crossed paths again. This time, it was at Foxwoods. Photo/friend of TSS "The Iceman" John Scully reports there were only pleasantries exchanged. Goody didn't debate the split decision victory enjoyed by Leonard, which to this day Hagler disputes.
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