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For Pacquiao It's Not The Drug Test, It's Relinquishing Control
By Frank Lotierzo
The on and off again “super fight” between Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Jr. has turned the boxing world and community upside down more so than it even was just a month ago. It's no secret to anyone who has observed Mayweather and his minions that they've purposely created a controversy to hold up the fight in which there is not a shred of evidence that one exist.
One last time, there's not a morsel of evidence that Pacquiao has ever taken PED's/HGH. On top of that there's no such drug or supplement that can give a fighter more than he has physically; and if you think differently you haven't been around that many ranked or upper-tier professional boxers/fighters. Isn't it something how David Diaz, Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton and Miguel Cotto had no qualm about fighting Pacquiao and then created a false smoke screen regarding steroid usage after losing to him in somewhat convincing fashion?
For those who forget, both Shane Mosley and Fernando Vargas tinkered with some sort of supplements at a particular point in their careers. And it just so happens during that precise period they both suffered defeats. In fact it can be said during the period they were believed to taking different banned substances they never looked worse suffering their most conclusive defeats of their careers.
Pacquiao's body or actions haven't shown anything that would suggest he's juicing or beating the system in any way shape or form. He just happens to be a physical phenom like former five-division and all-time great Thomas Hearns. Hearns, like Pacquiao, was a string bean when he turned pro but put on muscle and retained his hand speed and power as he moved up in weight.
The ruse Mayweather is attempting to pull over on the boxing community is all about power and control. It boils down to nothing more than Mayweather, who is the lesser draw at the gate than Pacquiao; trying to dictate the terms to the fighter who has more leverage and needs him less to make a ton of money. Mayweather thinks if he makes enough accusations that Pacquiao is using PED's/HGH that people will begin to think it's true. And sadly some of those who show blind loyalty to Mayweather and act as if it's his birth right to go down as one of the greats - give him cover.
Today the Mayweather faction tries to paint anyone who doesn't worship at the throne of Mayweather as being a hater. That's great and if they think that they can dismiss the bull-crap that Mayweather is doing by simply painting those who know the game of boxing and stating the truth, great. They'll get no where and will continue to fight and make excuses for a fighter who has cried, begged and pleaded for homage more than any supposed great fighter during the modern era of professional boxing.
The bottom line is Manny Pacquiao isn't concerned about passing a drug test regardless of whether it's done by the Nevada State Athletic Commission or the Olympic committee. It's the idea that who is Floyd Mayweather to dictate the terms and conditions of it above and beyond any other championship fight in history? Why should Pacquiao let the fighter who needs the fight more for his career in an historical sense call the shots?
He shouldn't.
Pacquiao knows he can submit to any style drug test without worrying about passing it, but why should he? Simply because Floyd Mayweather Jr. insist on it? Pacquiao has smartly refused to give in and let Mayweather dictate the terms and circumstances surrounding the bout when he has more leverage of the two fighters.
Hopefully, Arum or Pacquiao will soon announce that they're going in a different direction since the Mayweather faction isn't serious about making the fight. And that they'll try and make a fight with the Mosley-Berto winner. If Mosley does beat Berto, every boxing observer alive knows he and Pacquiao would be a better and more exciting fight than Pacquiao-Mayweather.
Not to mention it would be conducted between two great fighters who are truly interested in finding out who the better fighter is more than just playing the system and fans.
Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com
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MisterLee:
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The PED accusation is a backhanded compliment for' sure! Shows that Pacquiao's performance, and nothing else was so impressive that "he must be on drugs!" If Pacquiao's performance is the ONLY evidence, WOW, what a compliment! Freddie Roach is champ! Floyd Mayweather Sr. is a tramp! He's only at his son's place b/c no fighter wants him to be his trainer, he an orphan trainer! He only knows how to shoulder roll trolls that like to fight on the north pole fo' sho! Holler! Who wants to be treated like a criminal anyway when they're the bigger draw and clean?
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 05:48:52 PM
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ultimoshogun:
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I agree that heart and skill will trump PED's most of the time when it comes to a fight...there's even a statistic out there that proves that. My problem is that in this age of cheating in sports I think Manny has a moral obligation as a pro athlete to prove to the fans he's clean. After what happened with Marion Jones and A-Rod I don't think fans should just take someones word for it. The reason I use those two as examples is cuz like Pacman, they were the darlings of there sports and they flat out lied when asked if they ever cheated. I don't understand how Manny thinks in his head that drawing roughly a tablespoon or less of blood will weaken him. I read a statement from a doctor who says the human body normally has about 380 tablespoons of blood and there's no way losing one weakens you. Walking away from a potentially $40 million dollar payday over a random blood sample just makes it look suspicious. If it is control thing with Pacman like F-LO states in the article how many of you would let your foolish pride get in the way of $40 million? Hopefully Floyd says the hell with the test and fights him anyway.
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 05:51:13 PM
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Radam G:
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Nice super piece, Superelitefightwriter F-Lo. I know that you know when you see a not-sure-about-himself con man. And there is a lot of boxers -- always have been -- who are that textbook con man. Quite a few people -- including me -- knew and said that Money May would do this -- find fantasies to get out of the bout. I saw it coming when he took the Marquez-bout, stepped out of it with a fake injury and then came back to it being a couple pounds overweight. Money May really believes that he is controlling the important bouts and money or the game. He is just as delusional as the juice -- O.J. Simpson -- was. All that the powers that be need to do is stand up against Money May as Max Kellerman did in the post Mayweather-Marqeuz bout and the dude that embarrassed and torn apart Money May on that talk show. Radio, I think. I never heard the interview -- and don't care too -- but I understand that the guy did a job on Money May. Manny would do a severe beatdown on Money May. This is the reason for taking the most effective way of testing for drugs to Money May's way, so he could get out of the bout. But now when the lawyers start eating up his money as his bad habits and the IRS have, he will come to his senses and settle out of court and pretend to his audience of fools that everything worked out and went his way. Money May is going to end up being dissed by boxing promotions and end up tangling in the MMA/UFC to making a living. Nothing else for me to spit. Holla!
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 05:57:48 PM
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MisterLee:
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Floyd is a clown, trying to turn this TSS world upside down, but he only gives boxing fans a frown, when he goes to town with his unprofound sounds,why does the joker keep joking, why does the poker keep poking? He better give it up and fight Matthew Hatton, he thinks he's all big and bold, give it two months and Mayweather will be out in the cold! For sure!
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 05:59:09 PM
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ali:
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Is it really about control or is he trying to hide somthen why don't he just pull Mayweather card and do it. Now if he has another excuse then you got every reason to think Mayweather scared. If it doesn't get in the way of his traning he should just go ahead and do it matter of fact he should ask Mayweather to do the same thing and make the fight happen.
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 06:13:29 PM
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Radam G -- _______:
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For once and forever, maybe TSS fightwriters need to scribe the whole truth -- and nothing but the truth -- about the Marion Jones and A-Rod fiasco. Corruption at the top just didn't tell about the two athletes testing positive for a long while because of deals that they struck. Olympic-style testing messed Jones, not professional track and field. And Baseball powers that be knew that A-Rod was positive for years. The information about A-Rod was leaked like some other TSS reader said. It is purely BUNK that professional boxing commissions are not effective, but Olympicp-style dope testing is. Maybe Money May should influence the Olympic Games powers that be to let him in for 2012. I predict that Money May loses to PacMan like a MAN for 40mil or get upset for lesser money by another opponent. He may even get robbed. Money May has surely marked himself. Holla!
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 06:14:44 PM
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SALT lover:
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I really don't understand. If I was a clean athlete, and the other side was sayin' they think that I was usin' steroids, and that would bring questions to the World, and to add things up, they tell me to take USADA tests, I would gladly, GLADLY take those tests ANYTIME of the day: before, after, hell, even durin' the fight if it was possible. I know that's not possible, but the point is, there's ABSOLUTELY NO REASON not to take those tests, and shut their mouths. But then Pacquiao says he's afraid of needles. A man with a bunch of tattoos is afraid of needles. Then he has personal superstitions....a "man of faith" has personal superstitions. Then he only wants to be taken blood after, and no before the fight, which is obviously the critical time to be testin'. And now he boasts that he'll sue. If I'm not mistaken, those kinds of lawsuits are brought in surprise. Defamation lawsuits are usually prepared quietly, and then take legal action out loud. Let's see if Pacquiao really does this. If he really sues the Mayweathers, then there's a pretty good point that he's clean, but even so, it could still be possible he may be doin' somethin' wrong. However, if this so-called lawsuit does not take action, then he was bluffin' and that'll bring even more questions. I really thought Pacquiao was gonna take the tests, which are the ONLY demand from the Mayweather Team, since every other demand was made by the Pacquiao Team, and Floyd accepted it all of them (Thus provin' Floyd is not tryin' to "dictate" whatever), and shut the Mayweathers. But now he's bringin' excuses, after excuses of why not provin' he's clean with the BEST anti-dopin' agency in the World, and puttin' dates to when he's willin' to do so when that doesn't help his credibility at all. Let's see if he's serious about this....////...."lawsuit".
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 06:45:22 PM
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Guy:
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This is typical Mayweather. He doesn't want to fight Manny so he's trying to make it look like Manny's ducking him. At 130, Floyd was the man and and beat quality fighters like Chicanito Hernandez, Manfredy, and he destroyed Deigo Corrales. At 135, he had a tough first with J.L. Castillo, and to his credit, he took a rematch and proved his superiority against the best 135 pounder at the time. Since then and as he's moved up, he's been reluctant to face the best fighters. Instead, he's handpicked fighters he knew he could beat and has made a career of fighting older or lighter fighters. You need look no further than his last fight. He beat a career featherweight and failed to come in at the agreed upon weight, then during the post fight interview, he punked out on Mosley who challenged him to his face.
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 06:48:20 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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Frank, there are many time that I agree with your premise and yet differ certain aspects of your argument. Conversely, as you might expect, the opposite is equally true. But in this case, I agree one hundred percent. Not only is Manny the bigger star, he is the bigger draw. Everyone wants to fight him. And they call his name with a reasonable hope and/or expectation that he will take them up on their offer. Unlike Floyd, who they have come to learn is not interested in continually proving himself against the very best and thus would not even consider their challenge/offer. Start with Shane Mosely, the most deserving challenger at both Manny and Floyd's weight.....or more accurately, the true Welterweight Champion. I have always contended that a fight with Manny would stylistically be a much more exciting fight than a fight with Floyd. And that Floyd, having 'retired' and then returned to beat JMM at a weight dictated by him has done nothing in years to deserve a match with Manny. Under no conditions should Floyd be allowed to dictate anything to Manny; certainly not a test that he has designed specifically and exclusively for this one fight. I would love nothing more at this point than to wake up on Monday morning and read that Arum/Pacquiao have walked away from this fight, signed to fight any top level opponent in March with a commitment to meet the winner of the SSM/Berto fight. And to watch Floyd pound the one thing of which there will be plenty left behind in Manny's Dusty Trail: Sand.
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 06:51:03 PM
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riverside:
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good article, manny is on top of the world and he should not bow to mayweathers demands, the boxing fans demanded floyd vs pacman, and pacman did his job like he always does to make sure fight would of happened, looks like floyd did not do his part
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 06:51:22 PM
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Smiley C:
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Money May lives in his own world of Alice in Wonderful. Everything that is not done his way to him is upside down. He sees the drug testing of professional boxing amateurish and the tesing of amateur boxing Olympic-style drug testing professionalish. Money May suffers from mental problems fo' sure!
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 07:32:33 PM
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dud:
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Well Floyd will find out if pac is juiced up. hehehe But to his own expense thru Court!! The court will order a steroid test (blood, urine & hair test) to cover all the possible steroids, hgh & etc..... Once the Court finds pac free of steroids. MULA JACKPOT FOR PAC $100million lawsuit won. Lawyer: Do you have proof of pacs steroid use? Mayweathers Sr. : I cant believe how great he is fight thats my only proof!! Judge: I order you to pay XXX dollars and a gag order for you & your family & Golden Boy or else 1 yr in jail till pac has retired from boxing. Pac: Oh judge I plann to fight 4 more yrs!! Judge: then change that to 4yrs in jail!!!(Fantasy recreation of Trial)
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 07:49:16 PM
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Jason:
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We live in an era where if one launches an accusation against someone enough times, people will believe it (and unfortunately, the guy on the receiving end has to respond). Sad. Just like I said under the Bradley-as-sub article, Mayweather is actually COMPLIMENTING PacMan by hurling this assault on his professionalism. Indeed, he's saying 'my God, Pacquiao looks so (expletive) good that he must be taking PED's!' Pacquiao should take it as a compliment, and say thanks Floyd, yeah, you're right, I have looked pretty good lately. But Manny Pacquiao has too much class and integrity for that. ----- Manny could also lower himself and say to every media outlet/writer/person who will listen that Floyd is a fraud, that he hasn't fought a legitimate opponent in years, and that he's a wife-beater (he pled guilty to misdemeanor domestic violence in 2002). In 2004, he also beat up a couple of women outside a Vegas nightclub and pled guilty to that. Pacquiao could sully Floyd to no end, saying that he won't give such a lucrative opportunity to a degenerate wife/woman beater that is, incidentally, undeserving of the fight based on his resume. But again, Pacquiao has too much class to engage in that nonsense. ----- And why hasn't Floyd asked any of his previous opponents to submit to Olympic-style drug testing?? Maybe because he's fought nothing but undersized and/or C-Level opposition for the last 7-8 years. ----- Here's to Mosley-Pacquiao, provide Mosley beats Berto, this summer.
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 08:00:41 PM
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mortcola@ultimoshogun:
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Hi Ultimo - How do you make a moral argument that Pac has a moral obligation to prove he hasn't done something there is no evidence he has ever done? What moral obligation can he possibly have to submit to the demands of his adversary that he undergo testing no champion in history has ever been required to undergo? How, by what logic or moral philosophical position, can you justify this? It's backward, a__-backward, sheer confusion and gullibility to say otherwise. Guilty until proven innocent is wrong even if there is evidence. Here there is none. So, what gives?
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 08:14:40 PM
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temper proof:
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The proposal was submitted but it did not wait for a response and acceptance. It seemed whether it was acceptable or not it must go on. Pacquiao camp disagreed and submitted their own. GBP and Mayweathers did not seem to look at it. Talk between people of the context of both proposals should have taken place until the final agreement was reached. If this megafight fight won't push through,fans are the bigest losers. Fans deserve to see what maybe the greatest boxing match of all time. Hopefully they sit down again in their humblest self , be apologetic if need be. There is nothing to lose. People will understand. And the main goal is to save the mega event for the people whom they owe their success (the fans). I am optimistic they can work things out. Peace on Earth.
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 09:46:41 PM
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donputo69 :
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Great piece Frank...we all know that scareweather is trying to duck pacman...HE DOESNT WANT NO PART OF THE BEST P4P FIGHTER OUT THERE RIGHT NOW...scarefeather should go away...and fast.....lets see pacquiao vs bradley on march 13....the winner taking on the winner of mosley and berto.....2010 is gonna be a great year for boxing....we dont need fraud scareweather in 2010....lmfaooooo.....holla back!!!
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 09:48:59 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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Mortcola is spot on. There is absolutely no 'moral' obligation to disprove an unsupported accusation, moreover one that borders on libel and slander. In fact, the two Floyd's might soon find the opposite to be true. In court. If we, at some future date, want to engage in a conversation about a new set of testing guidelines, I am all for it. They must be fair, accurate and most importantly, enforceable. And here is the rub. They must be Universal. All commissions and boxing organizations must have the same standard .... highly improbable at best if not a near impossibility given the alphabet soup of Boxing worldwide. So for the moment, we must use and respect that laws that already have governed and continue to govern the game; in this case those of Nevada State. It is no small irony that this is Floyd's backyard and home state; the very same that he so desired this now-in-jeopardy fight to be fought. No one is above boxing. No one. Not Floyd nor Manny nor Dasher nor Dancer. The game has and will live without this fight. Of this I have absolutely no doubt.
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 09:50:05 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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Meanwhile, as Arum plays his far greater options, he and Lou DiBella are having some fun planning matches between their respective fighters. Forget Malignaggi and Manny. That is one I really don't really care to see. Except maybe to see how long it takes for Paulie to wake up after Manny pays him back for all the trash he has been talking. But Pavlik vs. Martinez is a fight I would love to see. I think Martinez gives Kelly fits in a battle that stands to be much better than it may look on paper.
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 10:10:50 PM
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FACTS:
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I am a massive fan of both fighters and have never written on a forum in my life, but have had to write about this. Manny has gone way down in my estimation throughout these negotiations and il try and stick to the facts, and not just the haters opinions that seem to rule on here;
FACT- Floyd has agreed to their opening offer instantly
FACT- Floyd also agreed straight away to the weight fine which is also one of "Never done before" stipulations that mannys camp seem to take offence to.
FACT- Manny DOESNT have a fear of needles, or become affected by a blood test before a fight (he's done it before)
FACT- Mannys camp are looking at other opponents already
FACT- While Manny has passed every drug test he has ever taken, these have all been on pre determined dates!! While i pray it isnt true, what Manny seems scared of is RANDOM drug testing during his training. Funny thing that for a guy who has won world titles at 7 weights and never lost a fraction of his speed, punching power or endurance.
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 10:39:12 PM
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GEORGE:
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many here criticizing about Manny's refusal to take a blood test which in fact it's just a table spoon of his blood to be taken from him. First, Manny is not avoiding the test as long as it will be taken only trice for blood tests, one on Jan 6, 2nd not later than Feb 12 and last right after the bout. are these three tests with only a month interval is not enough for the commission to detect the substances? The NAC has already tested him negative for any of those prohibited substances for several years already, are you saying they were not doing their job? that their tests can be cheated as simple as you think? are those substances can make a man robot or machine? then why Floyd doesn't take it if he really think those can make him invincible to Manny's 105mm howitzer.
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 11:19:32 PM
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Fe'Roz @ FACTS:
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Fact One: Both fighters agreed to the broad terms originally set down. Fact Two: Floyd paid a relatively marginal fine for the right to weigh in Above the originally contracted weight against Marquez. And did so to great advantage. Team Pacquiao was making it prohibitive to so again. Fact Three: We agree in principle but do not how for fact how he and/or any individual is 'affected' by needles. Nor does prior experience tell us. In other words, taking them doesn't mean liking them. Fact Four: Manny has a panoply of choices who to fight. Exploring them gives him enormous leverage. That is a fact . Fact Five: He has , like Floyd and/or any other fighter, always passed his prescribed tests. Like his peers, they have always been pre-determined. One more fact: you are absolutely entitled to your interpretation of your facts. Welcome aboard!
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 11:21:56 PM
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GEORGE:
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you know what, next time around Floyd Jr will demand Manny should only use his right hand
Saturday Dec 26, 2009 11:33:29 PM
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junicks:
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ultimoshogun u still didnt know why taking a blood will not make u weak? u must be on drugs man! wake up!
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 12:36:39 AM
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DaveB:
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I'm glad Pacquaio is standing his ground and not succumbing to Mayweather's demands. Like stated in the article - Who is Mayweather anyway? He is not someone who can dictate the terms here. From what I understand Freddie Roach said he would be okay with testing up to five days before the fight and even right after the fight. If Manny gives in to him, Manny loses face and power. Manny has many directions he can go in. Mayweather could too but he will have to fight a viable opponent this time. It is sad but if someone accuses you of being a theive, some people will believe it even if you are known to be an honest person. Boxing isn't weightlifting, track, football, or baseball where steriods help you anyway. I think this fight will come off eventually but Mayweather needs to learn he will not dictate terms to Manny and never will. Now he is trying to smear the man's good name without justification, just manipulation.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 12:40:04 AM
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Eastar:
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Minny Crackuaio is suing me for all of my TSS comments... I spoke to me lawyer and he said Crackman is insane and the steroids finally got to his brain. I lol'd
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 02:07:53 AM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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Atleast Woods and F-Lo seeing the right picture. I couldn't add anymore to this article. No proof of evidence whatsoever. Someone mentioned that Marion Jones lied to the public about her allegedly using peformance enhancement drugs. You are wrong, she was never asked, she confessed using it. She went through the same drug testing that Mayweather is pursuing and she never tested positive. That shows you right there that the USDA is not 100% accurate.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 02:23:49 AM
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Kool-Aid:
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I'm really starting to lose respect for my boy Floyd. Homeboy really making it difficult for boxing fans especially myself. I hope that this stunt he pullin' is just for the sake of leverage but he aint winning it that's for sure. I'm not going to include myself in the bunch who believin' Manny is on juice. If you think about it F-Lo is right on when he said Mosley lost while on P.E.D. and will just take that glory out of a Floyd victory.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 02:36:14 AM
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in touch:
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There are still ignorant people out there. Those that believe someone innocent should have to prove they are not guilty. Why should a 7 time world champ, who has never been found guilty of using drugs, have to prove that he is innocent?
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 02:42:44 AM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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Very well said DaveB!
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 03:10:41 AM
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TANGINANG MAYWEATHER:
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TANGINA! MAYWEATHER CAMP ONLY WANTS TO JUICE MORE MONEY FROM THIS FIGHT BUT NO BODY'S LISTENING!
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 03:49:33 AM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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@kool aid, it's no longer about leverage, all that was already agreed upon. I think it's all about diminishing Pacquiao's good name and sadly it's working. Many people are starting to believe he was on something just because he won't agree on the Olympic-style testing.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 03:52:31 AM
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Fe'Roz:
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It's great to see cooler heads are prevailing here at TSS as out top regulars begin weighing in. There are so many other sites where childish name-calling and insults seem to be acceptable or standard fare. We owe it to ourselves and EM to keep that kind of nonsense out of our space. It might be wise that we all resolve for the New Year NOT and/or NEVER respond to personal attacks, race baiting, homophobia and the like here at TSS. Those violators ultimately find they are talking to themselves .....and will find other places to spew their nonsense and bile. pc
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 09:42:41 AM
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Fe'Roz:
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Gentlemen, please take time to read the article written by Jake Donovan just posted on Boxing Scene about Golden Boy and their role in this debacle.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 09:55:13 AM
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vjoe:
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If PBF's camp had not made the accusation that Pac was using PED, then it would have been easy for the public to accept the condition (OIympic-style drug testing) as part of the fight contract and hard for Pac to decline. But once PBF made the accusation (with no evidence to support it) and the demand, Pac's reaction as totally reasonable.
Advice to Pac, fight someone else and make enhanced drug testing part of the contract for that fight....maybe this would teach PBF some much needed lessons concerning sportsmanship and business negotiations.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 10:20:05 AM
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ultimoshogun@mortcola:
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That's just my opinion regarding athletes today...I'm not saying they're all cheating but I'm not just gonna take someones word for it when they refuse to take a simple blood test to clear their name. The public has been lied to by honorable athletes before and Pacman is not the exception. Here's an analogy...If you were working out at a gym and someone was telling people you couldn't bench 120lbs wouldn't you go to the weight bench and lift 120lbs to leave no doubt? @junicks, I'm not sure I understand your question. I've had plenty of nose bleeds and cuts/scrapes growing up and I was never weakened by the loss of blood. I'm willing to believe a doctor if says drawing a tablespoon of blood has no effects on the body. For the record...there are reports of Marion Jones repeatedly denying using PED's...the whole reason she was sentenced to six months was for lying to federal agents.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 10:34:14 AM
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kountedout:
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if you dont say anything good bout manny you are a hater! there is a really good article on bragging rights corner and right cross entertainment bout victor conte the guy who created balco and why he said random test is mandatory and thats the only way it works. he also talks about how the regular boxing medical test are worthless if you are trying to find steroids and that is not what they should be looking for its EPO what they should be looking for and i guess victor conte doesnt know what hes talking about according to all the brilliant mind of tss
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 10:43:54 AM
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Fe'Roz @ ultimateshogun:
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The issue here, as I hope you can now see more clearly, is not really about Testing. It is about Floyd's tactics in character, promotional and business skills. He and his team, since the minute he destroyed Miguel Cotto, have used the public to negotiate this contract. Since Sr's accusation and Floyd and GBP's press released comments, a man's character has been unjustly maligned. Unjust because there was never a stitch of reason for such innuendo and accusation. Not one. If, and I believe Floyd's camp believed, there was the hope that knocking Manny off the public's pedestal would give them greater leverage in negotiations they were wrong. They have negotiated in bad faith and now are in jeopardy of losing the business at hand. And lastly, if they believe that maligning the fundamental integrity of a decent man is good promotion for this fight and/or boxing jn general, then may God help them. VJoe is correct. As I have said since I first entered these page, Floyd Mayweather Jr's approach to Life and Business is 'small potatoes'. Relative to the riches that could have been his ....respect, legacy, endorsements, etc....he will leave on the table much more than he will receive. That is a very small bore way of approaching the bigger picture in Life, where talent and hard work combined with dignity and respect are gift that keep on giving. Forever.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 11:00:22 AM
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mortcola@ultimoshogun:
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The issue of whether the STANDARD for testing in boxing as a whole should be changed is a whole 'nuther issue. I would agree with you if you made that case. But that is about having a level playing field and honest adherence to community standards. The problem facing those making the "Manny must come clean! argument is about confusing the need for better testing standards with Golden Boy's transparent manipulation. For the self-supposed greatest fighter in the world to demand an extraordinary (=beyond the norm) level of proof from a fighter ABOUT WHOM THERE IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN A SHRED OF EVIDENCE OF CHEATING is a cowardly and/or subversive act meant to gain an advantage unrelated to boxing, and/or to provide a backdoor to avoid the fight. The moral responsibility - and the test of character - is on Floyd...to accept the challenge of a dangerous opponent and live up to historical standards, instead of demanding concessions and advantages that no champion has ever needed before. Pac's moral responsibility is to do precisely what he has been doing: give it his clean best, according to current accepted standards. And, to KountedOutOver&Over - Manny is clean according to everyone except those who fear him, and they have no evidence to back up their claim. But plenty to fear based on ring-related evidence. They must man up and face the challenge or go elsewhere. If they want to help raise the testing standard across the board, I have no objection.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 11:15:01 AM
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mortcola:
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To reiterate a point made by many others: Manny's growth, physically and as a fighter, is consistent with someone who began at 106 as a teenager (such as Floyd), and made large strides through maturity and improvements in technical and conditioning-related training. It is inconsistent with other boxers who have been caught doing PEDs. He does not fit the known pattern.
No probably cause, and not enough evidence to generate even a plausible hypothesis that includes PEDs as a likely explanation. The more likely explanation is public suggestibility to PBF's self-created charisma and authority, plus a media-gullible mindset that gets turned on by rumor and scandal (Lindsey Lohan undergoes sex-change!!!!!).
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 11:22:00 AM
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Radam G:
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This whole fiasco will be a very bad outcome for Family Mayweather, and GBP CEO (the man behind the curtain) Dick Schaefer will become deeply marginalized, if not asked to resign. Don't be surprised to see him go the way of IBF founder and former chairman and CEO Bob Lee, or Murad Muhammad, Carl King and/or maybe be totally destroyed as the original World Boxing Federation was, which got it so badly that it had to come back in the hurt bitnezz as the World Boing Foundation. If somebody does not see the dark clouds of lawsuits, ________._______ for free. Knowledge is power. Bluffing is like magic, its works on others until they learn the trick. Holla!
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 11:42:45 AM
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bill major:
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i have to say i was wrong on testing ,i thought that urine would pick up all the peds but this guy who knows a heck of alot more than us said " Blood tests, Tygart added, detect prohibited substances like human growth hormone, synthetic hemoglobin, designer EPO and blood transfusions, while urine tests do not."
so i humblely admit i was wrong . as to whether he should go through all this crap ,i dont know as long as mayweather does the exact same things at the exact same times .screw em,he should for the pleasure of knocking the yellow belly out. i still think its not going to happen so floyd can preserve his meaningless record.it only is meaningful if you fought the best to get it and we know thats not true.he couldnt even come in at the right weight to fight a smaller guy in marquez.thats just terrible!and the real sad part about this is he has all the tools and skills in the world but has chosen not to use then to the fullest . i COULD have loved this guy .
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 11:54:56 AM
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Radam G -- Ditto dat fact, jack:
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Shoulder rolling off what TSS sharp reader mortcola scribed, PacMan and Money May were both106 pounds as16-year-old boxers. The difference in the two is that Money May quit starving himself earlier than PacMan did. The culture of the game is starving youself down. It is nothing for a fighter to jump up in weight and keep the power and speed as Superelitefightwriterdeluxe F-Lo stamped about Thomas Hearn. I can also use Evander Holyfield who people claim is on steroids because of his rapid growth. Right at his16th birthday, Holly was boxing at 132 pounds at the National Golden Gloves and 147 three months later at the National AAU; and three years later winning it all and going to the Olympic Games, he was barely making weight at 178. There are tons of other boxers who I could name. But you guys get my point. Holla!
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 12:19:31 PM
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kountedout:
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how can any of you say that Manny's growth, physically and as a fighter, is consistent with someone who began at 106 as a teenager (such as Floyd), and made large strides through maturity and improvements in technical and conditioning-related training when you have never trained a fighter or most have never boxed. you dont know the first thing about what a fighter goes through. what do you teach a kid the first time he comes into a gym?
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 01:03:50 PM
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kountedout:
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you are a complete embicile if you dont think evander wasn't on steroids.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 01:16:34 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Radam:
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I am beginning to believe precisely what you have suggested regarding Schaefer and Golden Boy. If this fight is taken off the table tomorrow, his tactics may indeed cost him his job. He is backtracking and apologizing (on behalf of Team Mayweather) faster than "Floyd-May-Not-Be-Making-So-Much-Money-Afterall-Mayweather". Their (GBP) hyperbole of their accusations and innuendo is matched only be their historic hypocrisy on the issue of testing. Bigger men by far have fallen greater distances in every sector of business and life just this year alone. If Schaefer falls, he has no one to blame but himself. In the end, it was his choice to support and defend the people responsible for shouting "Fire" in the theater. Mortcola, I could not agree more..... but are you seriously telling me that Lindsay Lohan did NOT undergo a Sex Change. pc
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 02:21:28 PM
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ultimoshogun@Fe'Roz & mortcola:
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So the two of you are ok with Pacman missing out on the biggest payday/fight of his life just cuz Floyd's a jerk? I ask you both, would you honestly walk away from a huge payday instead of taking a simple blood test that would shut the Mayweathers mouths knowing it will not put you at a physical disadvantage like Manny believes? I don't see how demanding a drug test is an attempt by Mayweather to gain an advantage when he too will be subject to the same blood tests.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 02:34:00 PM
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brownsugar:
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for once I'd like to read a non-biased article about the upcoming fight,.. instead of one that tries to divide readers into the Pro Manny or Pro Floyd groups as Frank has done,.. by saying fans of Floyds have to be "minions" or part of a "faction" instead of just boxing fans,.. I like Floyds style of boxing,.. but also appreciate what the image and popularity of Pac brings to the sport,... do I think he's cheating,..,.. would hate to even think that he does,... but Marion Jones fooled Olympic style test for years and even had the audacity to file a libel suit when she was initially accused,.. I'm not a mind reader,.. and neither do I claim to have any personal knowlege of the true nature and character of either fighter,...unlike so many on these forums due,.. Holyfield proclaimed his love for God on camera and by his generous actions off camera many times,......yet was the father of many illegitimate children... fans say the Pacman wouldn't ever tell a lie,.. but he cheated on his wife,.would a man that would Cheat on his own wife,.... lie to his fans??,... dunno,.... while Floyd who is a single father with custody of his kids always comes to fights ready to work,... without the help of the ref and puts in quality performances every time,.. Yet he's demonized like the spawn of the devil himself..,.. it all comes down to what happens in the ring,.. I could care less about Pac getting a little nookie on the side or Floyd gambling away millions of dollars with a stripper on his lap ...But dont anyone try to tell me Pac is a perfect man,.. they're both HUMAN,..... hate is so thick in here some folks say they dont even want to see the fight,.. hoping that Floyd will become a penniless beggar,..(not going to happen even with a law suit,.. these things can be delayed and appealed so long that half of TSS's readers won't even around to see the results) so I'll stick to boxing,.. Shaeffer did relinquish a strong position on the testing issue by issuing a public statement before negotiations were finished,...which he wasnt supposed to do,.. the subsequent libel suit and backlash by the Pac Camp sent Schaeffer scrambling,. he buckleld and it appears the fight will probably continue under the normal Vegas testing criteria anyway... to Floyds credit even though his camp got some egg on his face.. he never threatened to begin negotiations with another boxer,.. and still maintained his willingness to continue with the fight ... Yes Floyd does have an inclination to push back... and play mind games... so what ,.. it's part of boxing,. if the fight does go thru which I think it will. ...Mayweather will eventually capitulate to regular testing (especially with 3 or 4 guys saying they would fight Manny even if he had some "juice" in his water bottle),.. Maybe Floyd will be getting the last laugh by soundly defeating Pacman,.. or if Pacman wins,.. he'll certainly get my highest praise... it's only boxing,,... and it's time to close this deal..
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 02:36:25 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Brownsugar:
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Nobody here is saying Manny is perfect..... but he is a damn sight better than a man who claims to be his own boss and then fails to shut down his entire team from making unsubstantiated claims and accusations against another man. Ultimately, we all make the beds that we sleep in. If Floyd was suddenly uncomfortable last night, he needn't look far to mend it.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 03:59:37 PM
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mortcola@ultimoshogun:
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1. No - but Pac is set for life, there are other big fights, and there are things money just won't compensate
2. See #1
3. Its not just drawing a little blood. But beyond this, I direct you back to the post you're responding to, and also to think of the psychological negotiating purpose of, as I detailed earlier, demanding something no champ has ever demanded of another champ, without cause, while waging a public defamation campaign to go along with it.
4. To brownsugar - Floyd has always performed well in the ring - when he has come out of money-land to fight someone relatively low-risk. But he has been one of the historically most tasteless, preening, jack-sses in modern-day boxing with respect to his public and negotiating behavior. Pac is his Duran, in comparison to Sugar Ray Leonard. And while Leonard was a player in negotiations, he always sought and fought the best, full-out. As far as cheating is concerned, more than 60% of all men (as an average of three major studies) have cheated on their spouses at least once. F---ing another woman, though a regrettable choice, is different from metaphorically f--ing the public, on so many levels I don't want to spend the time breaking it down.
5. I don't read it as bias. I read it as a judgment about actual, blatant, public facts. Bias is what you start with. Judgment is what you render after considering what's under your nose, and Frank is both one of the least biased and most uninhibitedly honest journalists I've read in sports. Even when I don't favor the same fighter he does. Floyd and his camp are bottom-barrel in their dealings, no matter how brilliant Floyd is in the ring. That's a judgment they have earned.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 04:04:12 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Ultimateshogun:
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The answer is a definitive Yes if there are alternative means of earning similar monies. It is done all the time. And if anyone has options, it is Manny Pacquiao. That is exactly why Schaefer is groveling today trying to save the day. Consider these for example. Manny could stop fighting today and earn a fortune on endorsements alone. Or he could electrify fight fans and fight Shane Mosely, earn a huge paycheck (he made 20 fighting Cotto)... and then move on to capture a title at 154. Then retire. The checks would keep on coming.
So yes, the answer is Yes.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 04:06:55 PM
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Fe'Roz @ mortcola:
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You obviously can type faster than I can. Either way, the two of us are on the exact same wavelength. pc
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 04:09:47 PM
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RED:
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The ironic thing is that the man who calls himself "money" and has managed to trademark his arrogant laughter is dangerously close to laugh himself out of $25 million dollars. Pre-fight hoopla and antics are as common as overpriced Yankee Stadium hotdogs. Floyd admitted that he crossed the line when he said that he would beat Diego Corrales like Chico beat his wife, making reference to Corrales' domestic abuse charges. He added that he wanted Corrales' wife to be present to witness a wifebeater being stumped. After his crushing victory over Corrales, Floyd apologized to him. As low as those comments were, they did not call into question his opponent's integrity or sportmanship inside the ring. Floyd's people have outright disputed the authenticity of Manny's livelihood. Not a prizefighter but a common cheater. Manny is correct in answering that affront by commencing legal action against Floyd and his camp. I still believe the fight will materialize. I only hope Manny doesn't lose sight of the target and become too distracted by this nonsense. Just like the Corrales fight, or the De la Hoya fight ( where Floyd entered the ring in Mexican regalia in order to mock Oscar's Mexican heritage) Floyd can add injury to his insults. Of course, if his barbs get out of hand the only thing that may truly be injured is Floyd's pocket.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 04:38:12 PM
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ultimoshogun@mortcola & Fe'Roz:
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I understand Pacman's got more than enough money but a lil extra cash never hurts either....especially when you have a chance to make history while doing so. This will be the definitive fight of Pacman's great career should he hand Mayweather his first loss....it would be by far his greatest achievement in the ring. It's a shame there's a chance we may not get to see the fight.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 04:42:13 PM
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Radam G @ B-Sug:
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You are a very competent ex-boxer, as is the article of this piece, -- F-Lo. You know that rapid weight gain in a boxer, while keeping his speed and power, is the norm. For the simple fact that the culture of the game is massive weight lost until the fighter cannot stand it anymore or wake up. If you just think back to your era, there are tons of fighters in the U.S. Navy and other military branches who joined the Armed Forces as 18 and 19-old teenagers and won military championships from 106lbs to 175lbs, or 119lbs to super heavyweight by the time they were close to 30. How many athletes do you know that got pass military testing for steriods? Probably none! Of course, you have those wacko liars who claim that they can beat it all. Back to Marion Jones, she cheated the Olympic Games (level of steroids allowed for a female -- not being steroid-less,), not Professional Track and Field at all. It caught her from the jump. This is why she came clean and admitted to it and and sued and settled with the trainer who misled her about giving her alleged flaxseeds and flaxseeds oil. (Her ex-hubby spilled the beans when she broke up with him.) There is steroids in American foods, water and medicines, and our bodies naturally make steroids, so it is a level that the powers that be are concerned about. I predict that Money May is more steroid-filled than Manny could ever be from natural island and mountain foods and juices from ______. Money May is using reverse psychology before he is caught. So when he is caught, he will claim a conspiracy by the ____ ___ man. You know the type, B-Sug. Pops Joy May is a cunning archmaster of conning and an ex-drug pusher who believes everybody is on some type of drugs or "They (sic) lying," in his words. "It is just if they are legal supplements or not. Koolaid is supplement fo' me. But that $hit is legal." Bottomline, the fight will happen eventfully because according to ESPN, "Mayweather camp dropped its demands that the testing be administer by USADA." Holla!
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 04:49:30 PM
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SALT lover@brownsugar :
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Yo brownsugar! Why you're always, like, trying to stay in the middle and never get to either side? Everytime I read you, it's like you're on one side, then the other, one side, and then return to the other XD!!!!!!!!!!! Is it cuz you don't wanna make anybody angry? Anyways, I agree with a lot of what you said, man. People, most especially his FANATICS, treat, and talk about Pacquiao as if he was an angel, and appareances are deceiving. I wouldn't be SURPRISE AT ALL if he's cheatin', especially now more than ever since he don't wanna step in and take random tests. I don't care what the media, the boxin' fans and his craved FANATICS say, that brings more suspicion on him, and there's no valid, nor a good reason not to do it. And don't come and say that he don't wanna do it cuz he doesn't have to, or cuz he doesn't wanna be actin' like Floyd callin' the shots, nor cuz this or the other baseless, pointless, garbage argument his people here have been bringin' all this time, cuz I don't care what the case is, if there's an opportunity to shut the Mayweathers' big mouths I KNOW he would do it. You can call it mind games, you can call it tryin' to "dictate" whatever, that move he just did with the lawsuit stuff is strange, and says lot about him. Just like when the negotiations began with date stuff, if the tables were turned, and it was Floyd whom the Pacquiao Team demanded to take random tests, and Floyd files for lawsuit for defamation, the "Floyd-IS-a-cheater" would flow here like a river, where the "His-father-is-a-drug-addict-so-it-makes-sense" arguments would be the order of the day in TSS, and FANATICS puttin' "Take the test Floyd!" next to their pseudonym talkin' nonsense, and BS about their idols. Oh I forgot! It's Pacquiao, he doesn't wanna do anythin', not take the BEST drug test in the World so it's OK, he doesn't have to..........he's gonna take the test? Then is OK, he will take the test like he should...........Pacquiao doesn't wanna fight in March? It's OK, he doesn't have, he "has a good readon" (XD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)........Pacquiao wants to fight in March? Great! Get ready Floyd...........See? No matter what he does, he's a saint for his boxing fans, FANATICS, and the sick World. And I agree 100% with you man, people not only wanna see Floyd lose (Which is boxing's biggest attraction, not Pacquiao. Boxing's biggest attraction today is seein' Floyd lose a fight) but also they wanna see him destroyed, and penniless. And finally, hell yes Floyd will outbox that small dude, and make him look bad, just like all technical sounded fighters have done to him. Latezzzzzzzzz!
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 04:56:13 PM
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SALT lover:
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he "has a good reason
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 04:58:03 PM
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ali @ Brownsugar:
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Well said!!! People think Pac can do no wrong they need to think again. So many times we have been fooled by sports heros and people are still falling for it. I don't know if he's using steriods but there are signs just like it was with Sosa, Mcgwire, Jones ect. Never in the history of boxing has someone been able to be so small and more up as far as he has and not lose no speed or power. Now Roach & PAc should have known this is coming if not Mayweather somebody was going to bring it up if kept beating up all of these very good bigger fighters. Just take the damn test Pac if you don't people like me are going to think your hiding something. I've been many times pass about this steriods $hit not again the hell with that ,
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 05:17:17 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Radam:
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I am beginning to believe precisely what you have suggested regarding Schaefer and Golden Boy. If this fight is taken off the table tomorrow, his tactics may indeed cost him his job. He is backtracking and apologizing (on behalf of Team Mayweather) faster than "Floyd-May-Not-Be-Making-So-Much-Money-Afterall-Mayweather". Their (GBP) hyperbole of their accusations and innuendo is matched only be their historic hypocrisy on the issue of testing. Bigger men by far have fallen greater distances in every sector of business and life just this year alone. If Schaefer falls, he has no one to blame but himself. In the end, it was his choice to support and defend the people responsible for shouting "Fire" in the theater. Mortcola, I could not agree more..... but are you seriously telling me that Lindsay Lohan did NOT undergo a Sex Change. pc
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 05:58:54 PM
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Radam G -- ____ ___ humble and honest:
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No! No! No! Red! Floyd did not - I REPEAT DID NOT - ever enter the ring wearing any ethnicities' "regalia...to mock (a) heritage" of any pugilist, less alone Big Money OSCAR "Golden Boy" De la Hoya. The Mayweathers do that as a form of respect to the fateful crowd and the ethniicity of the boxer. Other fighters do it, too. But they are not noticed or noted like a Mayweather. The Mayweather are not bigots or racists, just psy-ops archmaster and paranoid crybabies about a "belief of persecution by the white man." I have personally been at the Mayweather gym in Vegas when they booted someone -- black or white -- out for the stupidity of latent or obvious bigotry. Pops Joy May started wearing "Mexican regalia" years ago every time that he fought where Mexicans were the dominant fans as an appreciation for being butts in those seats. The senior Mayweather was even know as "Mex May" in Houston Texas where he fought in the 1970s. He teased the "Mex-Tex" fans, who were crazy about him that he was a "Mexchigan"-- a play on being from Michigan. The Mayweather who is the most famous for wearing Mexican regalia in the squared jungle is Uncle Roger Mayweather. Holla!
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 06:08:39 PM
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SALT lover@Fe'ROZ:
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What's hypocrisy got to do with askin' a blood test, dude? I don't what's wrong with that, at the contrary, I see it as an opportunity to shut the Mayweathers' mouths off real good. If Pacquiao would've taken the test, and resulted clean, that would make the Mayweathers look real bad. And by the way:.......""Floyd-May-Not-Be-Making-So-Much-Money-Afterall-Mayweather"?????? $40 Million not so much money, man????!! That's a lifetime worth of money, though it can be spent stupidly, but still, C'mon, man! XD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 06:31:58 PM
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SALT lover:
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*CORRECTION: I don't see what's wrong with that
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 06:32:43 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Salt:
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When you are insinuating and/or accusing someone of an action for which you have no proof whatsoever... and then asking them to prove that they are not guilty, you better be squeaky clean. Golden Boy is far from it. You have as much knowledge as anyone on this site, so I leave it in your hands to do the research. You should start with the Judah/Mosely match and GBP's refusal to allow Shane Mosely to be submitted to extra testing. And their insistence that the NSAC testing being more than adequate. Ask yourself: Would you want these charges being made against you. And if so, would you want an outfit such as GBP to be either be prosecuting or testifying against you. I think I know the answer.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 07:16:57 PM
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SALT lover@Fe'ROZ:
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Well, then you and I will both go back to where we discussed if Floyd was he own boss or not. I remember when I told you, Floyd don't have a boss, and that Golden Boy Promotions was just representin' him. Same thing I can respond with what you just wrote. Yes, the Golden Boy Promotions did a different thing with Mosley, but then again, they were representin' a different fighter, and with a different background than Floyd in terms of legality, since Mosley WAS usin' steroids, so obviously they're gonna behave differently. I think that company's job (Same goes with Top Rank, Don King's, and all the other companies) is to protect those who they are representin'. It'smay seem like hypocrisy, but it's just business to them. I know that sayin' you are usin' somethin' illegal is wrong. I agree with that in many cases and stuff, but not when you're given the chance to prove the other guy wrong. If it was me, and they were sayin' I was usin' steroids, but then they bring the testin' procedure they feel comfortable with, I'd be more than happy to prove them wrong, and make them look bad. Whoever it is. That's just the way I see it, man.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 07:26:39 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Salt:
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Let's agree that although you and I agree on many things... on this one we will probably have to agree to disagree. With Juanma, Gamboa, Shane and Berto ready to start the year, we have plenty to look forward to. Unless of course, someone demands their opponent drop his drawers and prove he's a man...... pc
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 07:38:36 PM
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SALT lover@Fe'ROZ:
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! C'mon man! I could be wrong about this, I'm talkin' with all the certainty. I have no problem discussin' this. It's just that really don't see what's the problem in acceptin' the clean testin' if one is clean. But I could be wrong, I'm opened to accept when I' wrong, man. Don't think that you and I will be playin' a Yo-yo game of responses. At least not on my part. And HELL YES!!!! 2010 will be another great year, for boxin'.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 07:47:08 PM
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SALT lover:
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*CORRECTION: I'm NOT talkin' with all the certainty
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 07:47:49 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Salt:
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BTW, I had meant to say: He is backtracking and apologizing on behalf of Team Mayweather faster than (you can say): "Floyd-May-Not-Be-Making-So-Much-Money-Afterall-Mayweather". Thanks for catching the mistake.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 07:48:40 PM
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JohnJackson:
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Pacquiao and Top Rank never wanted to fight Floyd or a black fighter from the get go. They are negotiating with Paulie Maglinaggi instead of Timothy Bradley. Maglinaggi said that he think something is up with Pacquiao. Timothy Bradley has never said Manny was on any kind of steroids. Why not give Bradley the opportunity. They talk about fighting Yuri Foreman. He's not black either. They don't want to fight a slick black fighter period.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 07:57:25 PM
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SALT lover@Fe'ROZ:
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Hehehehehehehe, I read cha'.
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 08:00:41 PM
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brownsugar@Salt:
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Salt I like both fighters,.. .. and truthfully I expected at least a few folks to get at least a little heated by my comments,.. but I never expected to be called out by somebody who is a fan of Floyd,..I just like to see the whole picture,.. I don't come here to cheer lead or huddle up with folks who like a particular fighter,.. there's no need for me to be abrasive,.. and wear myself out beefin about fights that are not even 100% made yet,.. like a good boxer I conserve my best for the later rounds while keeping it close in the early going,.. peace...
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 09:05:05 PM
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brownsugar@Salt:
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thanks for the comments,.. I feel that Floyd is the more skillfull man,.. if they fight,.. I'd be surprised if he loses...
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 09:07:56 PM
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brownsugar@Radam G:
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Radam,.. when I was in the Navy,.. we didn't even know what steroids were,.. but I read an earlier post where you said that Pac had been staving himself down for so long,.. when they finally aloud him to eat,.. he expanded into his natural weight,.. all those years of suppressing his natural weight could have caused his sudden growth spurt,.. and the guy is almost built like a midget,.. heavy downstairs and head like a lion,.. compact torso,.. but stronger than what he looks like,... if he was on the juice,.. his body will self destruct when he gets into his 40's and 50's,.. but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt,... hate to say it ,.. but Floyds team has foiled they're gambit...(not because of the drug testing request,.. but the way it was handled)... Floyd SR and Schaeffer should know that a good card player never exposes his hand untill the right time,... well,.. it's done .. the only thing to do now for the Mayweather camp is to just do the fight and have the last word with a victory...........that is if everybodys feelings and pride aren't too bruised to sit down like men and get the deal done....
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 09:23:44 PM
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SALT lover@brownsugar:
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Hehehehehehe, yeah I hear cha'. It's a great idea to see the whole perspecive of things in a general way. I try to do that everytime. But anywyas, I agree 100% with you. Latezzzz!
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 09:31:25 PM
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brownsugar@ali:
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yeah ali,.. it's a valid concern,... and I don't fault the Mayweather camp for bringing it up... Floyd is always known for saying what folks dont want to say but stuff that needs to be said,.. and he's also good with the mind games too... the thing with Floyd is,.. you sometimes can't tell which is which.... but you have to know that there are some serious abuses going on... somewhere,.. the media stirred the pot,.. and the issue blew up larger that life for a few days,.. if these guys (Pac and Floyd) have any sense,.. they will get this deal done,... the publicity for the contraversy alone is worth an extra 2 million buys,... Floyd ought to get a bonus...
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 09:33:58 PM
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SALT lover:
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DAMN RIGHT Floyd should get a bonus for puttin' publicity on this!!!! XD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 09:42:22 PM
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Radam G -- ____ ____:
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Wow! I'm glad that John David Jackson -- the two-time world champion and now great trainer -- doesn't this make-believe nonsense about "Pacquiao and Top Rank never wanted to fight Floyd or a black fighter from the get go." I guess he just spar with them. So when and if the bout is made with "The Galaxxy Warrior" Nate "Grandpa" Campbell, there be no changing of his race to Indian or Rican or something. Oh, I musta fo'got! John David Jackson is bi-racial. This cyberspace never fail to amaze me. It is below crazy that bigots with disturbed imaginations of superiority would think that an elite pugilist is scared of a race. Whup-a$$ has no color, just a couple of loud sounds when that arse is getting spanked: "Oh $HIT! and OUCH!" Holla!
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 09:43:31 PM
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Radam G @ B-Sug:
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Just so that you know, Floyd Mayweather Sr And GBP CEO Dick Schaefer cannot stand one another. :Pops Joy May will tell you in rhyming sec "I'm the great boxing trainer of all times, I don't like that m___erf__ker." And Joy will not say why! You can go to "Floyd Mayweather Sr got Jokes" on Youtube and see Joy fanning Schaefer out of his face. Man, Schaefer is strangely sneaky and big-time rude. His days as CEO of GBP are numbered if Big Money O is smart and want to lessen the lawsuits that are coming. Holla!
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 09:57:28 PM
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Radam G @ B-Sug:
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Nobody but the Navy medical crop called it steroids. Other people probably referred to the jive as growth hormone pills, power, shots or drink. I hollered at three Navy ex-boxers, who became All Navy coaches. You may know them. They were involved in boxing and/or fighting for the Navy from 1942 to 2002, so you probably know KIrkland "KJ" Johnson, a coach out of Subic Bay, Philippines, Solomon Johnson, a coach out of Oxnard, Califonia at Point Pyuenme (misspelled) and John Hunter, a coach and barber out Virginia Beach, Va at Naval Base Little Creek,. They kicked guys who came from All Navy wrestling and weight lifting teams off their team for messing around with "human and animal hormones," -- nowadays called steroids.Holla!
Sunday Dec 27, 2009 10:16:16 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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Nobody here is saying that Pacquiao is a perfect man. But for the last 4 years in the ring he has been untouchable. Just because he lies or has cheated on his wife has nothing to do with him being guilty of cheating in the ring. You guys base you accusations on pure generic facts. Tiger Woods and Kobe Bryant have both cheated on their wives, does that give us a reason they are on performance enhancement drugs as well? Why use his physical attributes? Henry Armstrong was smaller standing at 5'5" tall and able to go all the way up to Middleweight. So it shows that it can be done naturally by HARD WORK, HARD WORK, AND HARD WORK!
Monday Dec 28, 2009 12:51:38 AM
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Radam G -- :
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Especially it can be done, #1 PacFan, It's boxing culture to fib about the fighter's height, so Armstrong was probably less than 5'5. Tommy Burns (I may have his name wrong), former heavyweight champion of the world who lost to Jack Johnson was listed at 5'7 or 5'8, but was actually 5'5 1/2. Boxing has never been by height. And height is the least advantage. It is hype over reality. Rocky Marciano, Floyd Patterson and Mich Tyson were all listed at 5'11 1/2 during their boxing days, But all are barely touching 5'9 and now in their aftercareers they are strangely listed at 5'10. Holla!
Monday Dec 28, 2009 02:01:55 AM
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brownsugar@Radam G:
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I entered a few wrestling tournaments while I was in the navy,.. did pretty well,...but I only sparred with the boxers,. since wrestling was my primary sport then,. but this was back in the Reagan days,.. so if it was happening,.. I was outside of the loop,.. now you'll have me reseaching this stuff... you never fail to surprise me Radam G..
Monday Dec 28, 2009 06:23:11 AM
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Radam G @B-Sug:
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One of the wrestlers of your period that come to mine is a little guy name TJ Jones. He won some many championships at whatever weight classes is between 110 to about 122 pounds. This dude is now homeless and a little crazy walking the streets of San Diego, California. But I haven't noticed him walking around in a few years whenever I'm in Diego, so the guy make be deceased. He was kind of messed up on serious drugs. As a wrestler, this guy was pretty donimant during the Reagan era between 1980 to 1988. Jones was in the style of Greek Roman (wrong name, but it was something like that) jive. Wow! And this cat was kicked out of the Navy with 17 years in. Holla!
Monday Dec 28, 2009 07:59:38 AM
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The Saint:
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@ all pacquiao haters: Answer me this and I'll worship at your feet. Why does Pacquiao have to prove himself "clean?" Why does Pacquiao have to prove his innocence? Why can't anybody produce any evidence that Pacquiao is indeed on some sort of PED or ever used them? Why should the burden of proof be on Pacquiao? Don't bother answering, Mayweather fans are the dumbest primates on the planet.
Monday Dec 28, 2009 10:35:09 AM
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boxing fan:
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i'm more of a pacquiao fan than a mayweather fan but i have to admit, pacquiao should take the tests. it will even more solidify his status in the ATG even if he loses to mayweather because mayweather does not rely on power but pure defense unlike cotto & hatton. steroids will be obvious in the public's eyes if the opponents are brawlers who rely on power & durability / great chin. if pacquiao will not take the tests, it will cast doubt on the people & will degrade him in the ATG even if he's innocent. his legacy will be destroyed. he should agree at least 4 days before the fight because as what i read (i'm not sure if it's accurate), specialists says steroids will be effective up to 4 days.
Monday Dec 28, 2009 10:41:24 AM
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Paul M.:
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I'm a fan of Mayweather but i enjoy watching Pacquiao. I don't think he should take the test. Give it a month or two and the clouds will clear. RJJ, Mosley, and Holyfield have all been caught using illegal substances but they still are seen as one of the best. Manny Pacquiao is only being falsely accused with no evidence that can easily be forgotten.
Monday Dec 28, 2009 11:05:26 AM
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boxing fan:
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i think the fight will be made later next year that's why pacquiao is choosing malignaggi instead of fighters who can brawl. he can choose foreman, bradley, valero, etc but prefers malignaggi because he is the only available boxer who has the fighting style closest to mayweather. he can choose guzman but he is a lightweight & he is in golden boy promotions. mayweather can have his supposed to be scheduled tuneup fight in UK. but i hope pacquiao will take the tests if he wants to prove that he's clean.
Monday Dec 28, 2009 11:08:43 AM
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Fe'Roz @ boxingfan:
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Agreed.
Monday Dec 28, 2009 12:36:30 PM
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SALT lover:
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After brownsugar's responses, boxingfan and Paul M are the only ones writin' with intelligence. I agree 100% with boxin' fan, in Pacquiao Team's choosin' Malignaggi. He has been fightin' brawlers and punchers, and then to land straight at Floyd? That's a no-no right there. Malignaggi, or Foreman would be a great match-up to polish Pacquiao's skills against a SLICK, technical superior fighter like Floyd Mayweather Jr (40-0), but the problem is that it definitely won't be enough. Floyd is a thousand light-years ahead of Malignaggi, and Foreman together. But it's better than any other brawler. However, if the tables were turned, once again, and if it was Floyd would've fought another brawler to get ready for Pacquiao, the same lame haters of this site would attack Floyd for "duckin'", or whatever. And about the tests, I agree again with boxingfan, and with Paul M, Pacquiao should've taken the test. And I write should've cuz it's clear he's not gonna take the test, for whatever reason. And I disagree 100% with Fe'ROZ on another article sayin' that Pacquiao's refusal is good cuz he's not gonna allow the Mayweathers call the shot. This test is the ONLY demand Pacquiao would've accept, after Floyd has accepted like 3, or 4 of Pacquiao's bosses. Good writin' guys!
Monday Dec 28, 2009 03:12:56 PM
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deepwater:
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bye bye floyd.your legacy sucks.get out of the way so we can watch real men fight.
Monday Dec 28, 2009 04:05:16 PM
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Smiley C:
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Mayweather is ducking Pacquiao hands down. There is no doubt about it fo' sure!
Monday Dec 28, 2009 04:21:07 PM
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SALT lover:
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See? No matter what happens, the same ol' lame argument of the two guys above me will never disappear from ther mentalities. No matter what.........
Monday Dec 28, 2009 05:05:28 PM
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ultimoshogun:
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I get what you mean Salt...Pacman is the one refusing the blood test....the ONLY thing that's holding back this fight and he's already shopping around for another opponent while negotiations are still goin on but somehow Mayweather is the one ducking this fight. Makes no sense to me how Mayweather can be thought of as the one who's looking for a way out.
Monday Dec 28, 2009 07:07:46 PM
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MisterLee the smart ____ :
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Wow! Floyd fan club, Population: 5. Holler1
Monday Dec 28, 2009 07:46:08 PM
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SALT lover@ultimoshogun:
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That's right. That's the sad condition of what boxin' is today. Full of rookies, with little minds and huge mouths. Full of expectators that think boxin' is sluggfest, and very few TRUE fans of boxin' who appreaciate th sweet science which Floyd is the BEST in the World performin'. No matter what happens, Floyd is the one who's wrong,and Pacquiao's the one who's right. That's the sad thin' about boxin' today. That's how people view it. It is only a handful of us who think with our heads, and not our hearts. If it was Floyd who wouldn't had taken the test, then I would definitely think there was somethin' suspicious about him, and begin to doubt him. And the haters would say he's cheatin'. That's how it works. Floyd's just gonna have to outbox and beat Pacquiao, so the level of hatred remains (Cuz it will remain. That hatred doesn't have remedy), but at least a lot fo mouths will be shut. Peace dude!
Monday Dec 28, 2009 09:50:29 PM
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ben o'connor:
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so this writter feels it ok that mosley and vargas were accused of drug use because of the fact they looked bad and lost!!!?? we all know manny has outstanding ability so lets do the testing before fight to leave no doubt of the fairness!! my opinion
Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 10:15:53 AM
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You Me:
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Stop mucking around Pacman Submit to constant blood test and get on with the fight.Whats the lawsuit?Mayweather is not accusing youof cheating or using drugs.HE WANTS LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.Both of you have constant Blood Test before the fight.Then face each other in the ring.No big deal.Submit Pacman
Thursday Dec 31, 2009 01:23:24 AM
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Briggster:
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let manny fight again a bigger & stronger opponent. let him demolishes that opponent & try to test him after the fight. if the accusations are false, then he's been all clean in the past.
Thursday Dec 31, 2009 01:38:05 AM
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ITS ME MAN:
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Its immeterial whether Pacman has outstanding ability or a Pound For Pound King SUBMIT to CONSTANT DRUG TEST before the fight,likewise Mayweather so both of them will be on a level playing field before they Rumble in the ring.
Thursday Dec 31, 2009 01:48:10 AM
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Tone megga:
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Just take the blood test and get on with it. If you have nothing to hide then take the test, as if Floyd sat down with Oscar and said hey lets start this rumor and prolong this match up because if we do Manny wont take the test. Take the test and lets get ready to rumble.
Friday Jan 1, 2009 06:14:33 PM
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Angie And Goody...23 Years Later
Twenty three years later after they seconded Marvin Hagler and Ray Leonard in Las Vegas, Goody Petronelli and Angelo Dundee crossed paths again. This time, it was at Foxwoods. Photo/friend of TSS "The Iceman" John Scully reports there were only pleasantries exchanged. Goody didn't debate the split decision victory enjoyed by Leonard, which to this day Hagler disputes.
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