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Pacquiao Seals "Fighter Of The Decade" With Victory Over Cotto
By Frank Lotierzo
Heading into 2009 the debate as to who was the "Fighter Of The Decade" was still up for grabs between Manny Pacquiao 50-3-2 (38) and Floyd Mayweather Jr. 40-0 (25) as both had a legitimate claim to the honor. Both Pacquiao and Mayweather captured multiple division titles over the last ten years and were considered the best pound for pound fighter in boxing circa 2000-2009.
Mayweather has remained undefeated since making his pro-debut in 1996 and Pacquiao's only defeat in the last 10 years came in 2005 against Erik Morales who he later defeated in two subsequent rematches. Another commonality that Pacquiao and Mayweather shared during the decade is they both defeated Juan Manuel Marquez, Oscar De La Hoya and Ricky Hatton in three of their biggest and most high profile bouts fought between featherweight and junior middleweight.
This past weekend Pacquiao took apart Miguel Cotto, a fighter many boxing aficionados believe Floyd Mayweather had no intention of fighting since Cotto moved up to welterweight. And it's Pacquiao's victory over Cotto to capture the WBO welterweight title that erases any doubt whatsoever as to who has earned the distinction as the fighter of the 2000's.
No matter how you try to twist and spin it, there isn't one case that can be made favoring Mayweather over Pacquiao for the Ring Magazine award that Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard earned for their body of work compiled during the 1970's and 1980's. Roy Jones was voted the fighter of the 1990's, but the case supporting him wasn't as overwhelming as it was for Ali and Leonard. Although Jones did dominate two undisputed all-time greats when he beat Bernard Hopkins and James Toney, who were a combined 66-1-2 when he fought them.
Boxing fans and observers understand that it doesn't matter how many fights a particular fighter has won, it comes down to who did he/they beat? Nobody goes undefeated if they constantly fight the best available opposition they can once they've achieved the championship/superstar level.
Muhammad Ali lost the biggest and most anticipated fight in history to "Smokin" Joe Frazier and was still voted "Fighter Of The Decade." And that's because he came back and beat Frazier twice, fought Ken Norton three times going 2-1, beat George Foreman for the undisputed title, beat Jerry Quarry twice and also beat Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers in between 1970-77.
Sugar Ray Leonard defeated hall-of-famers and all-time greats Roberto Duran, Thomas Hearns and Marvin Hagler who were a combined 166-3-2 when he fought them. And two of those three losses were Marvin Hagler's and he hadn't lost in 11 years before fighting Leonard.
The same applies to Pacquiao when it comes to beating first tier opposition. Manny is 5-1-1 versus Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales and Juan Manuel Marquez. All three are absolute hall-of-famers along with being great fighters. Add to that Miguel Cotto at 145 and Mayweather's resume simply doesn't compare to Pacquiao's as far as depth. Sure they both defeated Marquez, but Pacquiao fought him at his more natural weight and at a time when he was clearly closer to being at his best.
Mayweather also had his share of big wins during the 2000's beating Jesus Chavez, Diego Corrales, Jose Luis Castillo twice and Zab Judah. That said, Mayweather cannot claim a victory during the last ten years over a certifiable great fighter who wasn't past their prime or fighting out of their natural division when he fought them.
During the years 2007-09 both Pacquiao and Mayweather beat Oscar De La Hoya and Ricky Hatton. However, Oscar was an empty package with a big name when they beat him. And beating Ricky Hatton is a wash and doesn't justify "Fighter Of The Decade" for either Manny or Floyd. In order to make the case for Pacquiao over Mayweather or the opposite, it requires going deep into their body of work over the last ten years to build the case.
When all is said and done and in spite of him not going undefeated the entire decade, Manny Pacquiao's body of work is deeper and more impressive than Floyd Mayweather's. Forget about who is the more technically sound and proficient fighter, or who's the most exciting and more entertaining to watch; none of that comes into play for this honor.
Many will argue that Pacquiao's strongest claim over Mayweather is the fact that he won more titles in different weight divisions than Mayweather did. But titles aren't the be all end all to resolve or settle this debate. They both worked the system in some ways to gain a couple of those titles. What carries the most weight and is the truth detector here is, Pacquiao beat better opposition in big fights than Mayweather did.
And if it were close heading into their last fight of 2009, Pacquiao erased all doubt with his dominant performance against Miguel Cotto - who happens to be superior to any welterweight Floyd Mayweather has ever fought.
It's undeniable - Manny Pacquiao is the "Fighter Of The decade" circa 2000-2009.
Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com
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GOAT:
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Much props to the Pacman! Can't wait for him to fight a REAL Master. Like the movie Kung Fu Hustle, Pac is the BEAST but PBF is the ONE. Everyone will see how Pac handles a defensive master who makes you pay for your mistakes and is just as fast, if not faster, than you. But enough of that, this is Pacman's day and I want to give him all credit! Pacman really suprised me how he was able to take Cotto's shots, man Pac is a BEAST but PBF is the ONE
Monday Nov 16, 2009 06:20:24 AM
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deepwater:
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Wow.Manny is #1.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 06:23:34 AM
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arturo:
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That two year layoff didn't help Floyd either.I think Manny is the greatest TOE TO TOE fighter to ever step in the ring.The way Mayweather fights would give Roach a hard time trying to come up with a gameplan.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 06:55:55 AM
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Radam -- I:
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And when PBF crumbles, all the Pac-haters will come up with another alibi. PacMan can really put ______in a choke hold and one helluva frenzy of ______. Go to movie when your hero cannot win in real life. On the Big Screen, he will become an adversary's fans'dream. Da party is moving from Sin City to around about Hollywood.In the script of squared jungle whup-a$$ of real life, PBF stumbles. Holla!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 07:05:10 AM
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MadFriar:
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Pretty Boy took on The Big Show...therefore he must be #1.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 07:33:28 AM
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Carl:
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I wonder Manny stood there just to take Cotto hits. What a stupid act!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:04:42 AM
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bill major:
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goat,come on please.floyd will end up like cotto .he knows it and pac knows it. all those little men and wash ups he fought are all going to come back and bite him in the ass. its the law of who payed the price to be the best .pacquiao is the ONE
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:09:45 AM
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swinging dis:
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Pacman and Roach dont need a gameplan against Mayweather. It's the other way around. Both fighters are fast as hell, but the power of Pacman will destroy Mayweather's defense. If this statement is true, Mayweather needs to talk to Miguel Cotto.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:17:56 AM
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Timnaik:
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GOAT, your name says it all. Pacman is/was and will always be considered the better man and fighter as compared to Pretty fag Floyd. Not until PBF gets off his pedestal and fight real competition eg Mosley, Berto, and the Pacmeister and beat them convicingly then he can start talking about being great. Otherwise put a sock in it Floydy coz u got nuthin' on Pac.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:19:23 AM
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bc45:
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mayweather is a fighter with a huge bike that runs around the ring. While manny is a damn nasty very sharp chainsaw!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:20:06 AM
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GOAT @ bill major:
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PBF's style is completely different than Cotto's style. Pac's win was very imppressive but PBF is a bigger, faster, stronger, and technically better version of Marquez and we all know how much trouble JMM gave Pac. I'm a fight fa and I appreciate Pac's abilities and skills. He will go down as one of the best to ever fight but PBF is a grade above him. In 2010 PBF will beat Pac and Mosely/Berto winner. Remember, offense wins fights but defense wins championships.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:22:31 AM
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My Paduan View:
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Manny will definitely win over Mayweather. It is not known to everybody that that Pacman does not like PBF for being arrogant. Manny will surely train hard for the fight with Floyd. It will be his final fight before he will retire. Floyd will suffer more than what Cotto had suffered. Pacquiao will not give Mayweather any little chance to hurt him during the fight. PBF will try to commit suicide thereafter for being so embarrassed. Hehe. How I long for that day!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:24:10 AM
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GOAT:
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It doesn't matter who Pac fought before PBF or who PBF fought before Pac so lets not make that arguement. The only thing that matters is that they fight sometime in the spring and the winner will be looked at as the superior fighter. If Pac is being considered as one of the greatest ( justfiably so) then PBF will be the GOAT after he smashes Pac.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:25:12 AM
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fred:
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The fighters of the decade for the 70's were Duran and Monzon along w/ Ali. And Ali didn't even belong in the vote. But ALL 3 were voted such.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:25:20 AM
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MisterLee:
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To me, beating ricky hatton meant something, b/c manny beat him in his natural weight when defending his belts. Just like beating oscar at 147 was less meaningful than beating him at 154 with floyd, but when manny destroyed him that was unexpected. There's no denying manny's dominance, even if cotto was handpicked for manny, but cotto had many things that would have lent him a victory his jab and left hook. once those were gone and he was cotton feet dancing, it was a matter of time, b/c you can't outdance pacman. His foot speed is too fast to outrun. It was cool at the 2nd half, it was like a mongoose cornering a cobra, or a 20lb. wolverine chasing down a grizzly or wolf. Amazing and vicious. Cheers to cotto for taking the fight, fighting his heart out, and at the very least, he's coming home with a big ARSE paycheck. See ya! Holler! Great article as always F-lo writa'! This time without the haterade! Could the grain of truth you always spout be seeping into pple's system? F-lo writa' certifed ATG at this point! Anything more at this point is just padding on your resume! Holler! Keep up the good writing! Your lyrical footspeed and head movement is unheard of! Holler at the XY's, and you know who you are!!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:27:53 AM
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sweet science my a??:
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Floyd will end up with broken shoulder, loss teeth like his uncle, cracked ribs, bloody face like Cotto. This time, he will retire for good. He better be in good shape or else he will end up in hospital.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:28:11 AM
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Master Snake:
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I'm not quick to give praise. True greatness overcomes strong adversity and measured doubt. But I have to say, Manny Pacquiao has done it! He is an all-time great! Hell of a fight. Now, I want to see him accomplish just one more thing before hanging up the gloves. Defeat Floyd Mayweather convicingly at 147.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:34:59 AM
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Dana:
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YEAH PBF THE ONLY ONE!!!
NO DOUBT RUNNING THE REAL FIGHT.... HE COULD BEAT PAC REALLY.
BUT I GUESS PAC IS MORE CREDIBLE FIGHTER THAN PBF.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:35:14 AM
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Pretty ugly:
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Mayweather is technically very sound but is not a real fighter. He grabs and holds when in trouble instead of fighting back. He uses his forearm. He can't claim to be the best when he doesn't fight even.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:39:25 AM
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MisterLee:
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Fighitng Mayweahter, technically it's WIN/WIN for Pacquiao. Pacquiao will be seen as a warrior whether he fights mayweather or mosely. if he fights mosley, he will completely shame mayweather without even having to fight him, b/c this represents the second fighter that mayweather has been avoiding for years that pacquiao is taking on. If pacquiao takes on mayweather, he'll also be seen as a warrior win or lose, b/c up this point his resume has been so amazing that, a win or loss to hagler or hearns, could never hurt him, but further glorify his position. Floyd thinks that by fighting marquez he could earn #2 position, get millions, get an easy fight, and one up marquez at 147. This sort of happened, but it was very empty, and this is seen by pacquiao's victory which eclipsed mayweather's empty win. Now "Money" is begging the "Pacman" for a fight b/c he's scared, his options are : Mosley, pacquiao, fighting a real welter for less money, or retirement. The public backlash has beeen too much including the collective catharsis called Rugged Man Interview, so he can't even take on a tune up fight unless it's a real welter. if he takes a rematch with hatton, sure, 24/7 will fool those houligans again, and pple after eps. 2 will swear ricky has a chance and is "revived" after taking on Amir Khan or something, but in all reality, mayweather's back is agst the wall. That's why he's avoided the media since the Rugged Man Interview and knew he permanently F'ed up his career by arguing with a Radio DJ who's also a boxing expert. There's no way a loss in pacquioa's case could lose him anything or accolades, just like SRL's losing to duran 1, and technically losing to hearns 2 did not lose his place in history, or ali losing to norton, frazier didn't lose his place in history. Floyd would be just seen as "the guy who beat him", not as a great standing on his own but floyd doens't konw this, he feels a simple win can "catapault" him to being the next "beatles" which is won't. He'll just be as unpopular as ever, and most fans except the groupies will dismiss it as a slick big guy beating a speedy small guy. BUT, if pacquiao wins, like has floyd mayweather laying on the ropes from a right hook, pacquiao will be Elvis NOT just in Philipines, but world wide and in the US, and if that happens, Manny will officially be the next oscar. He'll have burst thru pop culture not just as a great boxer, but an icon and personality and his product and name will spread worldwide. He'd become a household name, video games will be named after him, he'll host TV shows worldwide, he'll lead his own promotional company or brand of gyms, he'll reign like tyson's short reign of the 80's and 90's. Even a mandatory defense could be potential PPV event, everything he does or says will be wonderful. Even Jim Lampley will say stupid things like "Again, emerges the Pacman of OLD!" (cotto clottey) haha. So yeah, win win for pacquiao. And you best believe if there's a clear decision or victory on either side, there's gonna be a rematch, hopefully one or both will fight mosley in between rematches so mosley can get his and whoop both their tales before they meet again. I see pacquiao outboxing floyd. If floyd's lead left hook, check hook, lead right, and 1-2 are nullified, he'll be stupified! Then he'll only have his shoulder roll, and oscar who was trained by freddie back in the day executed a decent counter to the shoulder roll despite ineffectively pressuring, cutting off the ring, and utilizing his jab for 12 rounds! Think what manny would do! Unlike marquez fight, floyd wont be able to control the distance, b/c manny has the foot speed, hand speed, and power advantage, what would floyd do if by round 5 he realizes he's being outboxed! He'll flip out! He's got no bags of tricks up his sleeve, he'll just be invalid. Manny gonna pressure and bang to the body and right hook to the head! he'll slip those lead left hooks, he'll corner floyd smart and effectively, and his hands will be faster than Uncle Roger's little pad work, so watch out! Manny is gonna UD or KNOCKOUT Floyd Joy Scareweather Jr! Holler!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:41:54 AM
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Matthew:
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You really can't argue with Frank's logic here. Mayweather fanatics will still believe their guy is the fighter of the decade, but I think the reasoning behind choosing Pacquiao is sound. Pacquiao has simply fought the better opposition. Being undefeated doesn't mean a whole lot if you're not fighting the best fighters out there. Pacquiao wants to fight the best, while Mayweather simply wants to remain undefeated. While I am reluctant to pick against Pacquiao again (sadly, I picked Cotto to win on Saturday), I do think that Mayweather's excellent fundamentals and limited punch output will be tough for Pacquaio to deal with.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:48:04 AM
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Frank Z@misterlee:
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I don't think we can jump to predictionsn on pacquiao and maywaether yet. we still have to see which mayweather we're really seeing. against a fat slow JMM he looked great, and he does have the same body speed as he did before he retired, but his punches have lost a little snap since 2007, and it makes you wonder if he'll hold back on combinations more for fear of getting caught in the exchanges by pacman's harder punches, and make no mistake pacman now hits harder than floyd ever did. on the other hand, cotto had the most success after the 4th round when he was moving and circling, and occassionally jumping in to throw a few shots. this doomed him because it's not his preferred style, but it's floyd's specialty to create space and utilize his one-two shot accuracy. however this version of floyd can easily get swamped by pacquiao's higher output o f punches, and it's likely that pac can slow floyd with rough and tough tactics, simply being physical and hitting him in the arms shoulders, anywhere that makes contact. can floyd's slickness and footwork overcome pacquiao's speed of hand speed of food, and awkward punch angles? this is the matchup of the decade, much more so than tyson vs. lewis, i think any serious observer of boxing at the time would have b een able to tell that tyson would have had to get a lucky punch a la rahman to beat lewis. remember too though floyd is more than capable of infighting, as he showed against hatton and way back against chop chop corley. both guys are gonna have to pull out every trick in their bag.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:53:14 AM
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Fe'Roz @ TSS Universe:
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Imagine for a moment stepping into the ring with a powerful puncher like F-Lo, a man with great experience and ring generalship. And a chin just as strong. Then getting pummeled mercilessly by punches in bunches from every angle with a speed thus far never experienced. Power and Volume....with precision. And there you have it. What Cotto felt, you've all been dealt. F-Lo and Mister Lee have nailed this subject shut with blistering power, volume and speed. Take a knee.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:56:08 AM
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GOAT @ Matthew:
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Matt, fighter of the decade is a subjective argument made by writers to elicit responses one way or the other. The FACT is that they will fight, probably early spring and the winner will be judged as the greater of the two. If PBF beats Pac and then Shane he will be considered as one of the GOATS. If Pac beats PBF and Shane he will be considered as one of the GOATS. And if Shane beats Berto, PBF, and Pac he will be considered as one of the GOATS. So arguing who is the best is non sense because by this time next year, we will know without a shadow of a doubt who is greater between PBF, Pac, and Shane. Personally from me, my money is on money.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:56:31 AM
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Fe'Roz (repost):
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Manny has set the new standard for Greatness. Every time he fights he moves the bar higher. So if Floyd wants to catch him, let's see how high he can jump.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:58:13 AM
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GOAT:
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Not to take anything away from Pac, that was a very impressive destruction of Cotto. Everyone here knows that I believe PBF is the ONE and the GOAT, that's my personal opinion. But, before I was a fan of PBF, I was a boxing fan and I have to give credit where credit is due and all credit is due to Pac for his performance. I'm not taking anything away from Pac who is one of the best I ever saw, but I beleieve PBF IS the best I ever saw and a grade above Pac. We will all see this in early spring when they fight. No catchweights or other bs, split the money down the middle and get it on.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 09:01:20 AM
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joshua:
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cotto is the best..you need to fight the best to be the best..and thats wat he is doing
Monday Nov 16, 2009 09:03:45 AM
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Real Fighter:
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Agree with this article 100%.. sad to say, as much as I want to settle this argument in the ring I think it will never happen with all Floyds excuses. He faked to retirement before because he has no balls to fight Cotto, Mosley and Margarito. What more to Manny after what he just did to Cotto. Floyd will use every possible excuses possible just not to fight Manny. Let them retired both w/o fighting each other, Manny will be remembered with his great legacy while Floyd will be remembered as the best ducker of all time.
With all the insult Floyd is recieving from fans and media, still he doesn't find yet his balls to fight real opposition.. he has no balls indeed.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 09:04:46 AM
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retri alban:
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Believ in Pacman! He is the real thing...everyone he foghts will look ordinary and retireable because he really is that good. Most pundits thought Oscar, Hatton and Cotto were going to beat hom. That meant they all believed they were still competitive. After the foght, everyone was either dehydrated or overmatched.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 09:06:11 AM
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riverside:
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not many cotto posters writing this morning, cotto is a great fighter, manny is just awesome, it's unusual how manny can carry his punch and chin while moving up in weight, cotto is one of my favorite boxers, there is no shame in losing to fighter of the decade
Monday Nov 16, 2009 09:23:08 AM
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mortcola@goat:
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No one in his right mind doubts Floyd's skill. But his accomplishments and his willingness to seek challenges are not in the same league as his skill. Therefore he cannot be considered "The One". He's holding out so as not to risk his Big Zero - money is only one good excuse for it. It is the same as if Ali had avoided Frazier, Shavers, Norton, and Foreman. His skill would have been praised on high, but he justifiably would have prevented from reaching that high summit as an all-time great. Floyd has not earned "One" status with his deeds. Deeds, not words, and not deeds against smaller, older men who were not the top challenger. I will personally admit agreement with you after Money takes on Pac, Shane, and Paul Williams, win or lose.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 09:26:55 AM
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Heatman:
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yeah, PBF is the ONE
the ONE and only COWARD
the ONE who's afraid to get a LOSS so he only fight weak oppositions
the ONE who is self proclaimed
the ONE who doesn't acknowledge that there is a better figther above him
the ONE who couldn't be a real champion
the ONE who couldn't win the hearts of many people
Floyd is no match to the PACMAN
Monday Nov 16, 2009 09:29:47 AM
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Francis:
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Remember! pacman is a different fighter now. He has a stronger right hand that he didnt used on Marquez when they fought. So dont compare how Floyd beat Marquez. Remember also that Cotto is stronger than Floyd.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 09:43:56 AM
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BuLB:
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@GOAT we respect you for being a mayweather fan..but the topic is pacman challenge hottest fighter out there and he is from 106 lbs climbing to bigger weight division and getting them pay . He is a clear example that bigger guys can't bully smaller guys and remind us of a david and goliath.now for your idol mayweather, He avoided big names and challenge them to a duel when they are no longer capable. he eluded those best fighter. I hope you still appear when mayweather and pacquiao meet. :)
Monday Nov 16, 2009 09:46:52 AM
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SALT lover:
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GOAT, I'm another huge, die-hard Floyd Mayweather Jr (40-0) fan, alongside you, ali, browngsugar, and many others here in TSS, and I can say to you, even if Floyd defeats Pacquiao at this point, he'll never get credit he's due. People don't want to see him fight the best, they want to see him lose. If he fights and beats Pacquiao, people will say he didn't fought Mosley. If he fights Mosley, people are going to say he didn't fought Pacquiao. If he fights them both and beats them, they're gonna say he should fight Paul Williams, and so forth. I think people just wanna see him lose badly. I agree with you on Floyd having the edge over Pacquiao, but we'll have to wait and see. One thing I Truly, Truly want to see aside from the fight are the negotiations. BOY they're gonna be vey interesting, but that depends if Pacquiao-Cotto made more than 1 millioin buys; if they did, the negotiations are gonna be as battle as the fight itself. Later dude!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 09:47:29 AM
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WinningEdge@GOAT:
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yeah i do agree with everybody here. PBF is great, but not yet there. and about Manny? yeah he just checked in in the hotel of boxing legends. being undefeated doesn't mean you are an all time great. come to think of it PBF also fought boxers past their prime but he just did it extra crispy that's why he became no.1 at that time. now, with this humble little 7 world titles in 7 divisions champion in pacquiao, it is just plain stupid to argue that he ain't a so called "GOAT" and that PBF still eclipses him because the string of their accomplishments over the past ten years, PBF is nowhere near Pacquiao. yes, PBF is undefeated. but it's not the numbers, it's whom you have fought and earned the victory that really counts. PBF could've been something what you've said, if only he defeated those big names like cotto/mosley instead of ducking them. the only reason why he is COMPELLED to fight Manny now is that... he has nowhere else to go.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 09:48:13 AM
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MisterLee @ GOAT:
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I think the marquez fight has just thrown the "catchweight" term out the window. Pacquiao will be lucky to get Fat weather down to a catch weight of 147 or 148 hahaha... it's as professional as a kellerman interview. But hey, it's good that you've finally come around with Pacquiao, too many pple have criticised him unfairly when no one else is doing the same things he did. You could nit pick anyone's resume. Holler!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 09:51:03 AM
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timbuang:
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One word for Floyd.... SCARED !!!!!!!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 09:54:45 AM
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Cyril Ybanez:
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Kudos to Manny "Pacman" Pacuiao!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 09:58:45 AM
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Jason:
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In 1999, the FOTD was Roy Jones. This year, the choice is as clear and one-sided as last Saturday night's fight: Manny Pacquiao. Floyd Mayweather doesn't even deserve consideration. Why? Go to boxrec, and see for yourself. Floyd's first fight this decade was a March 2000 decision victory over Gregorio Vargas. Look at the roster of names from Vargas to JMM. Completely mediocre. The best win of his career was his impressive stoppage of the then undefeated Diego Corrales. After that, it goes downhill in a hurry. Castillo in 2002 was a worthy opponent (Floyd was given a gift decision in their first fight). Baldomir is the best welterweight he's fought, and he was 43-9-6 when they met. I don't know, after that I suppose Gatti, Judah, and Bruseles top the list. It's a JOKE to consider Floyd, with that roster of guys, FOTD. I'd rank Wladimir Klitschko above Floyd. Calzaghe and Floyd deserve equal consideration (minimal competition). It's Pacquiao by miles.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 10:00:06 AM
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Gil P. Acosta:
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The warrior spirit in Floyd has left him a long time ago. I really believe he will price himself out to avoid clash with the Pacman. After seeing Pacquiao absorbed power punches from Cotto and he just walked through it, I do believe Mayweather will not and cannot hurt the Pacman. Mayweather can win on points because he will run and potshot the Pacman. But let me remind you, Pacquiao was able to grab his first belt from Sasakul who fights the same way as Mayweather and was even better than Mayweather. Pacquiao was one dimensional fighter then but he was able to knock Sasakul out. Mayweather can run but he cannot hide.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 10:02:09 AM
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VT:
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Floyd is very much talented but he choose not to showcase his skills against quality opponents, plus the fact that he's been 2 years doing nothing. Being a boxer is not enough to become a "Fighter of the Decade" one should be a great fighter and not just a mere skilled defensive boxer.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 10:06:01 AM
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ram:
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your article is good..excellent..you r even for both pac n mayweather...but mayweather fans they dont want accept the reality.....just like their idol.....big ego.....im not pacmans fans or mayweather fans ......its just i read the book...of BOXING.....is easy accept the reality,stop hatin,stop pretending,,,,,n lets unite one another,,,,,pacman is the fighter of the decade.......period....
Monday Nov 16, 2009 10:10:43 AM
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#1 Pacfan "P4P Legend":
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Brillian piece F-Lo! Couldn't agree more with this article. I think if Floyd would've took the Sugar Shane challenge I think he would've been the FOD hands down. But Floyd is a smart man who still believes in taking the easy way out. He's always believed that he can crush Manny ever sinced a possible fight between the two surfaced. I know for sure Floyd was hoping to fight Pacquiao instead of Cotto. Styles makes fights. Atleast we can really seal the issue as to who really taken their careers into the next level. Both Pac and Floyd are highly skilled in their own right. Manny being a great boxer-puncher and Floyd a superb slick boxer. Great match up ahead and I can't bear the wait.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 10:18:34 AM
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the good doctor:
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I am a big Cotto fan and I am the first to admit that Manny systematically took Cotto apart like I thought he would. As for my comments on Cotto, Joe Sanitago is not a good trainer. To his credit, Cotto was in great shape but He gave him no tactical advice or adjustments. Good trainers see what the fighter is missing. He should got get Teddy Atlas or see if he can get Steward away from HBO. I applaud Cotto for trying to last but Manny was to much. Hopefully, he can pull a Shane Mosely and rejuvenate his career. Now as for Manny, brilliant fight plan as well as Manny showing he can take a punch. On top of that he punches in more ways than I have ever seen. He has easily earned the accolades he is receiving. As for Manny v. Mayweather, it would be very interesting. If you ask me right now, I have absolutely no idea. Manny has never faced a guy that good defensively and Floyd has never faced a guy who can attack the way he does. For some reason though, my gut tells me this fight is a long way off.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 10:18:59 AM
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fogfrogblog:
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Great defense against great offense. Equal in speed. Bigger man vs stronger man. Smarter man vs tougher man. Good business man vs heart. I say 50-50 Anything goes. Go Pacquiao Mayweather fight! yeah
Monday Nov 16, 2009 10:31:01 AM
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GOAT @ Mister Lee:
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I'm a Pac fan also because I am a boxing fan. I just believe PBF is better. It's no need to get into the tiring arguments of who fought who, who beat who more convincingly, and who ducked who because those arguments don't produce outcomes. PBF and Pac will knuckle up around spring and we will know who is better. I am imperssed with Pac but PBF is that dude.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 10:33:36 AM
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IRONHAND:
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For me, there' no hurry to fight PBF, I would like manny to fight for 8th world title in 8 weight division, and I think, it's not hard for him to knock yuri foreman out for 8th. Go Manny. Let's go 8th first andcement the 8th for 8th record. Forget PBF this time, let him beg, you are more marketable than him at this time. To all manny fans and loyalists let's convince manny, roach and bob arum to go for 8th championship in 8th weight division by fighting yuri foreman. GOOOOOOO MAAAAAANNNNNNYYYYY!!!!!!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 10:37:37 AM
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Edgar A. de Dios:
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Frank, you're perfectly correct. Manny Pacquiao is definitely the Fighter of the Decade. There is no denying the fact that he has beaten the best and strongest boxers in his weight class than any boxer of this era of 2000 to 2009. Again, thanks for the nice article.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 10:39:53 AM
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Rick:
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I was not a huge Pac man fan. But he has made a believer out of me. A great fighter and a person with a big heart...wow.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 10:41:17 AM
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Matthew:
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@GOAT. Certainly, boxing is a subjective sport by nature, especially when considering who is the best of an era. IF (and it's a big if) Floyd decides to fight, and then beats, Pacquiao and Mosley, he could make a case for being the best of his era. Right now, based on what Pacquiao has accomplished and who he has beaten, I think Pacquiao is clearly the right choice. Pacquiao has taken on and defeated a far better level of opposition than Mayweather. The Cotto fight, in my eyes, has solidified Manny's status as an all-time great, and I believe he could have competed and been successful in any era. Mayweather has not beaten anyone at 147 as formidable as Cotto. Certainly, Mayweather has been a dominant fighter (particularly at 130 and 135 where I believe he was the man), but he has squandered opportunities to cement his legacy, much like Roy Jones did. Even though I am hesitant to pick against Pacquiao (he has proven me wrong before), I think Mayweather's slickness and limited punch output would probably earn him a decision win over Pacquiao. As a fight fan, I hope the fight is made and the debate can be settled in the ring. It's the fight we all want to see, but nothing is a given when you throw Arum, Al Haymon, and a reluctant PBF in the mix.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 10:42:26 AM
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Chris:
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Chris@riverside: I am a Filipino and a huge Manny Pacquiao fan but Miguel Cotto has earned my respect and a lot of boxing fans out there. He is a great fighter and a person. He doesn't make any excuses. He is a very humble individual like Manny. He fought a great fight but lose and he'll move on. All boxing fans should be proud to have a boxer like Miguel. Thank you!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 10:48:33 AM
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mervyn:
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before i rank Mayweather in the pound for pound (note: only in the PFP consideration not in the fighter of the decade) I would definitely rank Cotto ahead of him. Cotto fought all the tough fights that he can handled and ducked no one, Mosley, Margarito, (two of the boxers PBF avoided that includes cotto himself, Williams, et al, and i can go on and on...)Clottey, and the Pacman who i believe is the only one who defeated him, Mosley is anybodies guess depending on how one sees it. Mosley is also one i ranked higher than Money considering he fought the better opposition. Money? who he really fought? Hatton defeated more convincingly and more savagely by The Pacman so was Dele Hoya. No argument can be made by Mayweather except his undefeated but closely guarded and opponent chosen record. What is compelling is that many people buys his self proclaimed greatness, which is obviously just to up his price. He is a very good salesman though, same thing with his marketing team. He is paying them a very stiff fee, that's what promotional teams do.
Now The Pacman, he never ducked anyone, he may never have fought them all, but who can? fights are now made 3 to 6 months to better promote one. But, he fought better opposition than the ones claiming they were avoided by Pacman, (JMM, Pacman fought DIAZ, Dela Hoya and Hatton, than supposedly avoid a small JMM who was dominated by a semi retired PBF). On the undeafeated part of the argument, i would rank Chavez higher than PBF(sarcasm included). Pacman being defeated by JMM, PBF was defeated by Castillo the first time, so no argument there.
Pacman fighter of the decade and an ATG. Top 5 if i can vote
Monday Nov 16, 2009 10:57:10 AM
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Cox's Corner:
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Manny is an all time great. He proved it beyond a doubt showing that he has both physical and mental toughness as well as all the other attributes everyone hails such as speed and power. I do not think 140+ is his best weight but clearly that is where the money is. He is more of a natural 140 pounder which is why we had the small controversy over catch weights. There is nothing he cannot do but he would never beat Ray Robinson in his prime who is the # 1 all time GOAT and a true 147 pounder. Mayweather will present technical problems since he will not want to engage Manny and step back and try to counter and do just enough to win. It may not work we just don't know. It is the fight we all want now tho.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 11:06:40 AM
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ganiRends:
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I'M A MAN WHO HAS FEW WORDS TO SAY..MANNYS BELTS WERE HEAVIER THAN HIS WEIGHT.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 11:20:25 AM
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Menace:
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floyds defense only protects his face ( shoulder roll) while his body is open for hooks and straights, he has the handspeed to match pacquiao but he often fights flat footed whereas pacquiao possess good foot speed and lateral movement. I also believe that the shoulder roll is only effective against the right handed fighters, b/c floyds tendency is to roll his shoulder away from the straight or over hand right. Nevertheless, i'm sure pbf will make some adjustment to that. But i really think that the pacman will focus on punishing pbf's body as he tries to protect his face if they ever gonna fight. I also believe that pacquiao has the power to hurt pbf with body shots.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 11:27:32 AM
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ali -Pac vs Mayweather no catchweight:
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Pac fans no excuses if Mayweather beats him just give the man his props just like im going to give Pac if he win. Don't say Mayweather was too big I won't say he's using steriods lets not do any of that.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 11:54:25 AM
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ali -Pac vs Mayweather no catchweight:
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GOAT... made a great point lets not talk about who beat who any more lets just focus on the head to head match up and who ever wins that is the greater fighter period.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 11:58:10 AM
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GOAT:
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@ Ali. I agree. Pac just to rest the notion of a catchweight. He should not ask for or be given a catchweight for a fight with PBF. People say PBF's slickness will cause Pac problems, well I say he is not a "slick" fighter but he is a great technician and very disciplined. He won't run from Pac, but he won't stand there like Cotto and take punches. he will set Pac up with some fast accurate counters and get him out of there. Remember, PBF has good power but it's a different type of punching power. Fast accurate punchers have deceptive power whereas big guys i.e. Marg, Cotto, Clottey have power from there strength. Something stopped Marquez, ODH, and other fighters from walking down PBF. Hatton pressed the issue and got KTFO with a hook while PBF was moving backwards, that's punching power.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 12:07:40 PM
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mayweather sr.:
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pacman is great my son is stupid!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 12:08:26 PM
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GOAT:
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As great as Pac is (and he is definately an all time great) he has many flaws that a real master can expose. PBF has no flaws. He sets fighters up for counters and he deadly accurate. PBF will give Pac a boxing lesson. This doesn't negate the fact that Pac is an ATG, but PBF is the GOAT.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 12:09:48 PM
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p'Noy:
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"...Interestingly, Cotto was Pacquiao's first fight since he began campaigning at 147."
correction: Cotto fight s not the 1st welterweight bout of Pacquiao. He fought De La Hoya at 147. Pacquiao came at 144lbs at the weigh-in in that fight.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 12:18:43 PM
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The Saint:
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@GOAT: Pacquiao has no flaws. Did you see his fight against De La Hoya? Did you see his fight with Diaz? Did you see his fight against Hatton? Pacquiao did not lose a single round against any of those guys. Oh, wait. Maybe you've seen Pacquiao take some hard shots against Cotto, Morales and Marquez. You're right. Pacquiao does have flaws. Flaws have a tendency of showing up when you fight the TOP fighters in your weightclass but are practically undetectable when you fight CHUMPS like Mayweather does.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 12:24:22 PM
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GOAT @ The Saint:
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He lost 3 fights and had a draw in another so he has flaws. There is a game plan of how to beat Pac. Past fights don't matter anymore because they are going to fight. Saying Pac fought the best and PBF didn't won't mean anything when Pac is getting check hooked to the canvas. Leave past fights alone and focus on the upcomming fight of the century.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 12:28:51 PM
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Matthew:
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Even though I think Mayweather can beat Pacquiao, I don't see him stopping Pacquiao. Floyd's offensive output will not be high enough to score a kayo, and let's face it, he doesn't like to take chances (at least not since he moved up to welterweight). In order to score a knockout, you have to be willing to take some chances. He could have put Marquez away, but showed no inclination to finish the job once he had him hurt. Yes, he kayoed Hatton, but Hatton rushed straight in with no jab and no head movement (just like he did against Manny). Pacquiao's head and upper body movement continue to improve, and he took Cotto's best shots without any noticeable effect. Floyd will fight a cautious fight, and probably do just enough to win a decision and stay out of harm's way, but I don't see any way he stops Pacquiao.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 12:34:26 PM
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oscar:
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Mr. Lotierzo, Cotto is the second Pacman fought at 147, Dela Hoya was the first in welterweight div. although its a dream match not a title fight. Pacman is one of the greatest of all time
Monday Nov 16, 2009 12:35:45 PM
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mortcola@The Saint:
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Nice one about flaws. Every fighter has flaws. But getting hit isn't a flaw because it happens as part of normal business in the ring. Some guys have the flaw of having too good a defense, taking them out of offensive range, rhythm, or balance. A "flaw" is anything the other guy can capitalize on....unless you're talking about a novice who doesn't know how to move, who lacks basic technique. Pac is a pretty good defensive fighter, but if you factor in the defensive value of his offense - not just that brutalizing the other guy keeps him from hitting you much, but that he establishes fast, unpredictable angles from which to land power shots the other guy doesn't see - then his ability to avoid punishment is wrapped up in his offensive attack. When Pac fought JMM, he lunged - his punches came from strange angles, but the chin and upper body were always right where JMM's laser could find them. Since Roach, Pac's attack is combined with lots of deception and movement that unravels a rhythm-based conventional fighter. Floyd is simply the best at anticipating and slipping/blunting the other guy's attack. But he has never seen the sorts of things Pac does, at that speed and power. Pac's offensive arsenal is huge now, and is delivered the way I just described. So PBF will have to dig, and if he wants the decision, he'll have to engage, either enough to shut Pac down offensively (unlikely, but possible), or by slugging with him. And since Castillo and DLH were able to put a decent amount of leather on him, I expect that Floyd will feel more pain than he's experienced in the ring. By the way, that's what makes someone great - being great even when you're exhausted, in pain, and the other guy keeps bringing it. So, all the talk of "flaws" is nonsense. It's the chemistry of these two fighters, what happens when two different kinds of great collide in the same ring.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 12:52:21 PM
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Eastar:
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Don't believe the hype. Fanny will lose to any real boxer. He avoids black fighters all together. He has yet to fight a true 147 pounder in his weight class ( no Coocho don't count, he was forced to fight at 145lbs or Fanny would'nt fight him ) and he will avoid Floyd by asking for a catchwweight and asking for equal pay. So stop the Mrs Pacman nut hugging...
Monday Nov 16, 2009 01:21:49 PM
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Scott M:
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I think of Pacquiao as the sport's greatest fighter, and Mayweather as it's greatest boxer. Usually the better boxer wins, but not always. Look at the first Leonard-Duran fight. Pac Man, like Duran, will have to force the better boxer to fight. If he can, it will be interesting. If not, he probably gets outpointed. Definitely an intriguing matchup, and probably the first one among the top two pound for pound fighters since Sweet Pea Whitaker And Chavez. I hope it happens! Can't wait!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 01:24:17 PM
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Master Snake:
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Manny is really a 5-division world champion. most don't recognize the IBO belt as a true world championship. I'd have to agree. I like the way it looks. But I don't think it is up there with the WBC, IBF, WBA, WBO (the last two are sometimes questionable!). When Manny won the IBO belt from Hatton earlier this year I can name at least three other jr welters who are superior fighters: Tim Bradley, Juan Urango, Devon Alexander. Also, Pac would have an interesting fight with another aggressive southpaw, Kendall Holt.
Just an observation, Pac doesn't have any wins over a black top flight boxer. This is a mysetery in his career I'm surprised nobody ever mentions. You know a lot of people believe blacks and latinos are the best boxers. Yet, he hasn't fought any good black boxers. I think there are several out there around his size that would give him hell.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 01:45:51 PM
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mortcola:
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Eastar, at last some genuine insightful fight analysis! We needed a little comedy to lighten it up here. Thanks.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 01:59:56 PM
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Eastar:
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lol @ Motorola: lmfao Mrs Pacmans defense is his offense. What do you do with someone with superior defense, and an all around offense not just lunging in every now and then to through a flurry? Mrs Pac ducks black fighters for a good reason. Most Black fighters unlike most latinos tend to use good foot work and head movement. You see how Eric Morales got beat by Zahir Raheem? Why didn't Mrs Pacman fight Raheem after his victory instead of Morales? Hmmmmmmm???!!! Fanny wants none of Floyd that's why when they asked him three times if he wanted to ightf "Money" he refused to answer. Scared.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 02:17:07 PM
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stopclaiming ur champ:
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Floyd the SCARED ONE..HA HA HA HA . U WANT A BIG PIECE OF CAKE FIGHT COTTO....HE HE HE ...
Monday Nov 16, 2009 02:24:12 PM
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mortcola@eastar:
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I don't think the black/white/latino thing matters once you're in the ring. That's statistics. Take ten fighters of each race at the same level of their career, and, yes, the black fighters are likely to have the strengths you mention. Manny appears to lunge, too, but his balance is perfect and he ends up able to throw with leverage, with his head being off the center line. He also has very, very quick feet, even though he doesn't glide like black American fighters can. Morales was a lead-foot. I think you really under-rate Pac technically. He's got a whole tool bag, and its getting better. As far as fear, Manny has never called out a fighter - look at all of his post-fight interviews. I really don't see fear in him. He seems like a calm, modest guy who thinks it is foolish to talk it up. There were other fighters like that - Arguello was one. Donald Curry was another, if my memory is on. I think the fight against PBJ is a lot more competitive than you do. And I think Pretty-Boy is nervous about having an actual battle on his hands. I'll talk to you after and we'll see how it went down!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 02:31:56 PM
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ultimoshogun:
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I'm enjoying reading the Pacman and Mayweather fans go back and forth on this thread....both sides have brought up good points but I can sense a lil bias from both sides. I don't believe Pacman can KO Mayweather nor do I think Mayweather will give Manny a boxing lesson. This fight will be very close from the start to the final bell..perhaps so close a rematch will be necessary. The whole issue with their common opponents should cancel eachother out cuz although Pacman's stoppage wins over DLH and Hatton were more impressive, Mayweather pitched a shut out against Marquez. Like some of you have stated...Pacman hasn't faced a fighter with Mayweather's defensive skills and ring IQ and Mayweather hasn't faced a style like Manny's which I would describe as controlled chaos with all the angles and volume of punches he attacks with. Both fighters will be encountering an animal they've never faced before and that is what makes this fight so intiguing.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 02:39:22 PM
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Teng:
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Superb fight Manny! You made us all happy in the Middle East!
Now it's time to party!!! Glory to God for Manny!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 02:55:50 PM
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zenitram:
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ok fight fans, the stage as been set----you are looking at the fight of the year when its set---- this will be a chess match. the pac crew is special when exposing flaws of fighters-- freddy has the eye and the fighter to execute what is needed-- mayweather is a great fighter- the king of defense---great air and speed.========= i usually can pick a fighter to lean towards, but this is one that makes me go-----hummmmmmmmmm!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 02:57:25 PM
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vegasxxx:
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Mayweather got a split decision over ODLH and a KO over Hatton. Manny is neither of those two. NO KO or split decision for Floyd against Pac. RUN FLOYD RUN!!!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 03:05:12 PM
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Eastar:
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I'm not biased at all. I actually like Manny. I'm just not a nut hugger like most of these guys here, and I definitately am not a "Money" hater like most of these guys on this site, including the writers and editers.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 03:08:29 PM
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maruc:
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hey mr goat,,if ever floyd and manny fights, i want you to be with floyd in the ring with boxing gloves too. manny won't back off with you two fighting together against him. you will surely find what you are looking for,,,finding yourself and floyd either in a hos[ital room or laid in the casket after the fight.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 03:12:46 PM
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PinoyPower:
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RUN FLOYD RUN!!!!!!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 03:21:02 PM
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john a:
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let the truth be told I like manny , manny got style, amnny got a lot of monster in him But" But" too each his own he has at least ten more fights than Mayweather but so what look who undefeated, Mannny greatest gift is moreso his chin than his overall boxing abilities. He's improved from that wild slugger he was years back to a more polished spound boxer via great work by Freddie Roach. But Floyd is a more sound technician hands down who will beat you to the punch standing still or backing up his defenses are nearly impenetrable. But to each his own. people can't settle on fighters 60 years ago let alone on who's the best today and the racist component added to the furor makes forums like this a tasty treat to add some juvenile ad'libs just to be heard. Go Floyd Go Manny
Monday Nov 16, 2009 03:45:27 PM
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Eastar:
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I apologize to all you pacquiao fans. I really think my boy mayweather dont want to fight manny. he's gonna risk that "0" if he fights manny. mayweather should fight haye next! if mayweather can beat haye, he will be consider the best of alltime. im out. peace!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 04:03:29 PM
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SyanongKa:
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Goat, Manny Pacquiao is the hands down favorite Fighter of the Decade. How come he's got one loss in 2004 and still end up the favorite. PBF has zero loss but it seems a lot of the boxing sportswriters are more intelligent than you think. During the last 2 years, Mayweather is the TWO and MP is the ONE.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 04:10:08 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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Let the debate begin! The fight hasn't even been announced and we already have chaos in the building. This evidently shows the type of magnitude this fight is going to create. Hardcore PacFans vs Diehard Mayweather fans. Let's keep it clean no low blows no rabbit punches, now touch em up. Ding! Ding!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 04:45:26 PM
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#1floydfan:
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best of the decade? for sure.....best of our generation? i don't know about that......theres talk of this cherry picker wanting to move up to try claim an 8th.....and i guarntee you it wont be paul williams.....just like it wasn't shane mosley.....it's our turn....cotto had his chance it ends with floyd.....50-50 @ 147
Monday Nov 16, 2009 04:51:04 PM
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#1 PacFan "P4P Legend":
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This is what bothers me, Floyd Jr. hasn't done a thing in the ring but keep his well protected and pampered unbeated record. He's no GOAT and that's a fact. He's not the ONE and that's a fact. What kind of facts do you have to back up that statement? Because he's undefeated? Rocky Marciano was undefeated but he's not considered GOAT. Calzaghe was undefeated and he's not even considered an ATG. Does beating Jesus Chavez, Diego Corrales, Jose Luis Castillo twice and Zab Judah enough to place him as GOAT? Hell no! If you have the right facts for me then give me a holla.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 04:52:50 PM
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brownsugar,..:
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Some really good comments,.. like Ultimoshogun,.. and some of the typical drivel of so-called fans who claim to know boxing,.....Because some of us like one fighter does it mean we have to hate the other??,..I think Manny is deserving of the title because Floyds been on vacation for a while...SO you can call the Excellent Manny Pac,.. the best fighter who ever lived and it wouldn't mean diddly once these two face off...all bets will be off when these two meat in the ring,.... Manny's best fight was against a weight restricted Cotto,.. who virtually died after round 5,... Berto or Mosely,..or Clottey would have had their way with him that night too and you can't deny it,.. although I think Manny could have beat him at the full 147 anyways,.. because Manny is working with a bit more ability than the proud Cotto,.. but I doubt he would have stopped him,.. I just have a problem with him losing the title when the weight limit was shaved just enough to take away Cotto's edge,.. but it is what it is,.. Cotto signed the contract,... and Ambiguous ATG Titles notwithstanding,.. did you hear the audience screaming Mayweather's name after the fight???,... because the whole world knows the only fight that matters is Pac vs Floyd,... the Boxing World is demanding a fight between 2 of the best boxers of their generation,.. Floyd vs Pac baby,... The whole world knows who the best P4P boxers are,.. and will settle for nothing less then to see them compete for the crown in the ring,.. not some opinion poll,....MAKE IT HAPP'N CAP'N,... IT'S TIME TO THROW DOWN BABY AND LET THE PIECES FALL WHERE THEY MAY,......I like both fighters immensely so let the best man win....
Monday Nov 16, 2009 04:56:14 PM
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granite chin:
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@Carl --you said packy was stupid in standing in front of cotto allowing himself to get hit. For you it was stupid, but for packy he just showed us that he can take a hit from a guy like cotto. And do you remember Ali doing that? It was some kind of Ali for a moment in that ropes. Packy said after the fight that he was testing Cotto's punches, maybe weighing on the pros and cons of going after Cotto aggressively.
Do you have the balls to withstand those cotto punches? If not, don't call packy stupid. They are professional boxers and they know what they are doing inside the ring. Better yet, don't make stupid comments here as you are as stupid as yourself.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 04:59:31 PM
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#1floydfan:
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i can't belive i need aproval now haven't i been pretty good lately? you need to release that tight hold you got on pacs n@ts so the man can breath lol......boxer vs brawler....current #1 vs former #1.....it's unavoidable.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 05:00:54 PM
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Anonymous user:
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manny is no. 1
Monday Nov 16, 2009 05:05:49 PM
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Whatafight:
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Your article is one of the very few that provides an honest perspective to the hottest topic out there. Manny was just phenomenal last Sat.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 05:11:28 PM
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granite chin:
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Floyd is always talking of Packy's losses. I think the better point is that who is the better fighter TODAY, not yesterday or tomorrow. So, Packy's losses and Floyd's undefeated record doesn't mean a thing because that is already done with. We talk of the present tense, and we ask the question...who is the better fighter today? And the only way to answer that is to get them in the ring and fight. Maybe for a while, we could even forget who they fought and beat. Just let them fight and let us see who wins.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 05:17:08 PM
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BenPung:
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You give Floyd Jr. too much credit.
Who has he fraught that is worth mentioning without a foot note?
He is to be commended though as a "GREAT PROMOTER". He promotes himself and thus has the luxury of fighting only the old, washed up (ODLH), the one moving up in weight and the smaller opponents (Hatton, Judah & Marquez); where he is sure to win convincingly. He avoided the Cotto, Mosley, Margarito and the other heavy hitters in his weight class.
As to his record, his only claim to greatness is his unblemished record. Not like Manny Pacquiao where he made his name with the destruction of hall of fame opponents...
Monday Nov 16, 2009 05:44:10 PM
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buzzass686:
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TO GOAT.... yeah i would like to see that too.. but the problem is... you cant find any boxer as fast as pac is so... bring the PBF on... and find out how NOT pretty he will be after the fight...
Monday Nov 16, 2009 05:46:43 PM
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Menace:
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Hey Eastar!!!...pacman won his first world championship against a black fighter, his name is Ledwaba. Get your facts straight.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 05:46:52 PM
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josh:
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Pacman VS. Floyd should happen coz the world want's it. The problem is
, is the world or is floyd will give pacman a fair terms during negotiations
specially on weight? It's obvious floyd is bigger than pacman and the problem lies in there as floyd is equally faster as the pacman and I believe floyd will cheat again in weight during weight-in. Personally, given floyd's penchant on making sure that almost advantages will be on his side before he fights..I don't want pacman to fight him anyway coz pacman had already achieved a good career than any boxer in history. If the fight will be made it should be at a catch weigth of 144lbs with $5M penalty for each excess pound. $500,000 for each pound? c'mon floyd will pay that just to take advantage.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 05:47:22 PM
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SALT lover:
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Jesus Chavez was just a Title defense before leaving Super Featherweight Division, and he was a good fighter in the 130lbs, but then again he was just a Title Defense. Diego Corrales and Jose Luis Castillo were the best men in their Division when Floyd fought them. Diego Corrales was a warrior and everybody knows that, and Floyd beat him in his prime. Jose Luis Castillo was the best Lightweight in the Division when he fought Floyd. Zab Judah was also the best Welterweight in 2006 when Floyd fought him, and he also beat Baldomir, who, OK, was not that great but he beat Judah for the 147lbs Crown, and Floyd beat them both. At that time Mosley was in 154lbs with his fights against Fernando Vargas, Cotto was just starting to go up to 147lbs, Paul Williams, Berto, Clottey and all the others were not big names at that time, so, yes. The answer is beating Chavez (In 2001 at 130lbs), Judah (In 2006), and Corrales (In 2000 at 130lbs) were great things? Yes they were. It doesn't neccessarily make the him Greatest of All-Time, but yeah those are great things. And Calzaghe was a great fighter too. And even if he beats Pacquiao, still nobody's gonna give him credit but his family, friends, and his fans.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 05:51:31 PM
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Eastar:
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Listen, Mrs Pac is overrated. His resume better than Mayweathers? Only in a Fanny Wacquiao nut huggers dreams. When you talk about greatest fights ever you talk about Gatti/Ward, and or Castillo/Corrales. Floyd mopped the floor with three out of four of those guys. Who did Fanny beat? Barrera? ( old ), Morales? Zahir Raheem beat him in between his trilogy with Wacman. Marquez? You saw what Floyd did to that dude. So what resume is this writer talking about. He's just another Wacman nut glove trying to stir controversy for his little article. lmfaoooooooooooo. Ya dig?
Monday Nov 16, 2009 05:54:51 PM
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Romiel Casanova:
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Good analysis Mr. Frank Lotierzo! I agree
Monday Nov 16, 2009 05:58:43 PM
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eric brun:
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Pacquiao has proved to the world he is the best by fighting and defeating the biggest, strongest and best welterweight in Cotto. Did mayweather fought any welterweight who is as strong and as big as Cotto? He cant even make a fight with Cotto or Mosley! If mayweather wants to fight Pacquiao he must challenge Mosley first and defeat him.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 06:11:32 PM
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fred vil:
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One basic criteria of being chosen as fighter of the decade (FOTD) is that the boxer must be active the whole of the decade. Mayweather went into retirement under dubious circumstances. Some are saying he was avoiding boxers who he thinks can defeat him and at the same time preserving his unbeaten records.This is what matters to him the most,preserving his clean record and wait for mismatches but with huge prizes. Another criteria of being FOTD is the candidate must excite fans in all his fights. Mayweather failed this one big time. You can remember his fight against Baldomir when he was booed because he was pre-occupied with defenses and even running away from the chasing Baldomir. The fans felt they did not get their money's worth. With Manny Pacquiao it is a whole lot different, he never fails to satisfy all the fans, pro or con of Pacquiao. Another criteria is: Boxing is a sport, and it should bring out the best skills in a boxer and the best human character of champion by being a class act and friendly. Manny Pacquiao become the symbol of boxing by being good and by being friendly to all media, boxing fans and other other sport fans. The retirement of Mayweather only shows the boxing community can easily forget him. When he left boxing did not die but on the contrary it has even grown in terms of the new found level of interest of the fans. When he left, fans from all sports, fans from other sectors of entertainment crossover to boxing just to see why Pacquiao is such a huge spectacle as a boxer inside and out of the ring. One can not deny that even popular actors and actresses and other famous artist are star struck of Manny Pacquiao. What can we say more. I will do in another day.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 06:25:08 PM
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SALT lover@Eastar:
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Dude, you and I are in the same boat concerning Floyd and Pacquiao; I 100% support Floyd, cuz he's my favorite fighter. But I disagree about Barrera being old, or washed up (By the way those two things are completely different things, since a fighter who's old doesn't neccesarily means he's washed up, ex. Hopkins, or he's young doesn't mean he's at his best, ex. Fernando Vargas). Barrera was young, at 29 when Pacquiao fought him, and he was at his best at 126lbs. But I agree with you that Morales was in the decline when Pacquiao fought him, and I agree with you about Marquez. People don't give credit to Floyd for that fight saying Marquez's punches weren't able to hurt Floyd, but still Floyd landed 59% of his punches, which is the highest anybody has scored on Marquez, and Floyd did it after being 21 months off the ring, which is not the same thing as training. Training is one thing, but actually keep fighting fights is what keeps you on top of your game. But Pacquiao has also proven already he's an all-time great with this performance against Cotto. Dude, we have to accept Pacquiao's greatness and his entering to the legends club. But still, I believe Floyd will take him if they fight, and I think they will fight.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 06:26:54 PM
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Nono:
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Your analysis makes a lot of sense. But for the period 2000 - 2009, Mayweather Jr. should also be given accolades. It would be fitting that he be named "(SCARED) RUNNER of THE DECADE" for two (2) compelling reasons. First, Floyd runs away from better oppositions and always found "pretty" and "petty" excuses. Second, when he was in the ring, even with the "not-so-good" oppositions, he did not engage and the audience simply got so bored with his "running" skills. With the second compelling reason being said, I wish to see a showdown between FLOYD JR and USAIN BOLT not in the ring but in the track where FLOYD has all the freedom to RUN scared.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 06:34:10 PM
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ali @ #1 Pacfan:
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If Mayweather beats Pac will that make him a GOAT or does he have to beat Pac and Mosley
Monday Nov 16, 2009 06:51:58 PM
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Pranzer:
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Before you declare Mayweather The One or the GOAT, he should fight the elite welters first. Until that time he is just all show, all techniques, self- anointing bore of a fighter. If he fight the big ones he may not look good coz he will be running awkwardly and possibly getting pummeled. After that you will have a new and different opinion.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 06:55:34 PM
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LuCas:
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The irony of all even Pacquiao is not claiming that he is great or simply that he is that good. He respects other fighters and never put them down. Again and again he says he's just an ordinary boxer trying to let the fans enjoy his bout.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 07:08:32 PM
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mabii:
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Good article. Well, the drums have started beating for a pacman/mayweather showdown. Manny Steward was spot on. A Mayweather/Pacman fight will be more technical because Floyd does have the ability to make fighters adjust to his pace not because they want to but because he makes them miss so much that they become wary of hitting the air. make no mistake though, manny will make Floyd fight which I believe is what will turn the tide in Mayweathers favour. When Floyd fights aggresively he is simply a beauty to watch. the fight will be close with a high connect rate for both fighters and could possibly end in a draw with both fighters fightinga sequel within a year.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 07:27:09 PM
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#1 PacFan P4P Greatest Of All Time!:
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@brownsugar, I really think the excuses of why Pac won the fight is really coming out. A weight restricted Cotto? The guy look more in shape at that weight than previous fight. He was ripped. I think if he was 147 I really believe he would have been stopped a lot earlier. Manny would've stopped two Cotto's in there. He was so freakin relentless everyone other than myself was so surprise of his performance. @Ali, If May beats Pac then he surpasses Manny as the better fighter. All time great is where I can rank Floyd, I don't think anyone can take the place as GOAT. If only Floyd let his career unfold by taking on Margarito a few years back and stuck to facing stiff competetion then I would've rank him as the GOAT. Imagine if Floyd faced Marg then Cotto and finally Mosley I surely would've ranked him up there. But that never happened which was his own fault because of him being his own promoter.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 07:29:20 PM
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Mon:
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There's no question that the Pacman is the greatest boxer of all time. Mayweather is no match against the power of Pacman. Mayweather will look like an amatuer if he choose to face Pacman and he knows that. That is why he will ask for a bigger share just to avoid fighting the best. He cannot even choose cotto. Bcoz cotto is a far more better than the running and scared Floyd. No more pretty boy if Pacman hits you in the face. That's for sure.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 07:51:28 PM
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yajs:
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mayweather needs to fight mostly first, if he wins to mostly then unification to manny pacquiao...
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:02:44 PM
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Matt:
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fair article! I think no matter what happens between Mayweather and Pacquiao, Manny has proven himself by constantly fighting bigger opponents in more challenging fights. As good as Mayweather is, he needs to prove his case by not only beating Pacquiao but also guys like Mosley, Margherito, Williams?, then inevitably he will gain mainstream public respect!
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:14:27 PM
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floyd'safraud:
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@Easter: Castillo gave floyd a lot of trouble before floyd got a controversial split decision. Hatton was able to get to floyd before getting careless in the 10th. Floyd seems to employ the same fighting style every single fight and that is "Hit and Run - Hit and Run" but will the 20 foot ring be enough for him to avoid the PAC's onslaught?. PAC showed his granite chin by walking through Cotto's punches, what made you think that he will not walk through floyd's punches while hunting floyd down and dishing out his PAC version of punishment?
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:22:52 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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The only way this conversation will cease is if these two meet in the ring. And that is the very same and only place for Floyd to re-gain the status and stature that Manny has achieved....and that he so desperately seeks. In the Ring! What we saw happen Saturday to Miguel Cotto was not an illusion. It was not the result of great promotion and/or better PR. It was not fantasy boxing. It was the destruction, in no uncertain terms, of one of the best fighters of this decade. Total and summary annihilation. Those are the performances that make the man; that mark their place in history. In the five years since destroying Diego Corrales (RIP), Floyd has no such accomplishments. In fact, Oscar aside, he has no such opponent. For me, until Floyd contracts to fight one of the elite welterweight fighters of this time, not only can there be no comparison..... this conversation is moot.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 08:41:23 PM
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Marco Polo:
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If floyd landed good counters pac will return strong punches. i dont see pac gettin KO'd by floyd after the cotto fight.
If pac will lose to pbf, its because PBF is more skillful,has brilliant defense and great tactician. I will never doubt his brilliant gift again.
Pac is a gifted human being, he comes in and surprises you. He tricks you and makes you like you can beat him
easily. But when the sound of the bell started, he will show you his gift and you must be ready for it.
I really like floyd with his skills but the way he talks and bash people(makes me wanna hire someone to shut him up forever).
believe me, most people here in our place are awed by pbf defense and boxing skills but eager to see him with good
quality opponents. Nway, if i were to choose pbf and mp, its clear il go with MP. I believe speed,power,stamina,heart
and FAITH of MP will break the brilliant defense of floyd. Again, hope this fights materialize before global
warming eats up the world. geez
Monday Nov 16, 2009 09:05:32 PM
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The Saint:
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@Eastar: Pacquiao "avoids" black people, while Mayweather avoids Asians (Pacquiao), Latinos (Cotto/Margarito) and black people (Paul Williams, Shane Mosley, Andre Berto, unless you count that little pip squeak zab judah). Also, if there were any black welterweights besides Mayweather that people actually cared to see, then maybe you have a case. You don't.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 09:56:32 PM
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#1 PacFan P4P Greatest Of All Time!:
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@Saint, don't pay attention to Easter Bunny, he knows nothing about boxing. Just on here to cause chaos. He came back from his hole.
Monday Nov 16, 2009 10:20:19 PM
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arturo:
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this fight might happen in YANKEE stadium.I have never attended a big fight but I am going to try to make it wherever they do it.Before the Cotto fight I thought that Floyd would easily beat the winner.Now I see a even fight, just hope there is no catchweight .Floyd by UD
Monday Nov 16, 2009 10:27:03 PM
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Maharlika:
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bc....wahaha so said it right..nice dude!!! (mayweather is a fighter with a huge bike that runs around the ring. While manny is a damn nasty very sharp chainsaw! )
Tuesday Nov 17, 2009 12:50:54 AM
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Britannia:
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F. Lo, you hit the nail right on the head! 100% boxing fans all ocver the world agree with you on this one, no questions about it!
Tuesday Nov 17, 2009 01:29:51 AM
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joobs:
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If floyd's argument is true that 40-0 makes him better than pacquiao, then fraud Julio Cesar Chavez jr is as good as floyd because he is also undefeated!!haha. floyd is an excellent defensive fighter.. best of our time probably. he COULD BE a GOAT.. but until he has proven that he could handle the BEST OF HIS DIVISION, he's nothing but an excellent technical boxer who markets himself well. it would be great fight. BEST OFFENSE VS BEST DEFENSE!! PAC vs FLOYD!!! i see pac beating floyd by sheer volume of power shots. of course because of floyd's excellent defense only a fraction of pac's power shots would land, but those power shots thant land on floyd.. that's pain dude!! haha.
Tuesday Nov 17, 2009 01:42:47 AM
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kountedout:
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@saint you have to be delirious, your insight is incredible. manny has no flaws. a guy who picks his left foot off the ground and throws a left has no flaws. did you say david diaz? the david diaz who was knocked by kendall holt! lets see when they fight. I know floyd is better then a midget with cauliflower ears. 40-0
Tuesday Nov 17, 2009 08:14:18 PM
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Arnel Banadera:
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It's a fact Manny has not fought a big name African-American boxer - yet. But please name one who was a super featherweight or in a lighter weight division. Mexicans/Latinos usually dominate these divisions. And Pacman has started boxing in the heavier divisions when, about 4 fights ago? Arum did hand-pick Diaz for him. But they were still testing if Manny can fight above his weight division. He did not call out DLH. DLH cherry-picked him, thinking he could get back at Manny for not signing with Golden Boy Promotions. Too bad it was a retirement move for him. And Hatton was one of the men, if not the man, in junior welterweight. And who was lording it over in the WW division? Cotto, then Margarito (with some tricks), and now Mosley. And Mosley's time with the Pacman will come, I think. He just has to wait for his turn. It'll just be the Pacman's 3rd fight at WW if the bout with PBF will happen. So, there it goes. It's gonna be the black man's turn for manny now. Let's just wait and see how it goes.
Wednesday Nov 18, 2009 12:01:59 AM
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The Saint:
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@Floyd Mayweather Jr aka Kountedout: I know I own you, but if you keep making a fool of yourself I might have to trade you in. Find somebody else to read for you and explain to you what sarcasm is. Here is what I originally posted: " Pacquiao has no flaws. Did you see his fight against De La Hoya? Did you see his fight with Diaz? Did you see his fight against Hatton? Pacquiao did not lose a single round against any of those guys. Oh, wait. Maybe you've seen Pacquiao take some hard shots against Cotto, Morales and Marquez. You're right. Pacquiao does have flaws. Flaws have a tendency of showing up when you fight the TOP fighters in your weightclass but are practically undetectable when you fight CHUMPS like Mayweather does. " My point is, it's easy to look perfect when you fight tomato cans like Mayweather does. Got that? I doubt it.
Wednesday Nov 18, 2009 09:58:46 AM
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JOSE EL MALDITO!!!!!!!!!!!:
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pac boy pound 4 pound dont think so yeah is a great boxer not pound 4 pound. he only jumping weight to weight he is not defending hes tittles he dont stay in to defend the tittles.last tittle he did was at 135 pac boy dont give young boxers a break pac boy only pick a easy fight with cotto y not fight shane floyd or margarito,berto .wat is he going to do not defend welter tittle he cant go 154 he get killed. defendddddddddddddddddddddd uuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr tittles pac boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wednesday Nov 18, 2009 03:37:55 PM
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JOSE EL MALDITO:
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PACBOY P4P DONT THINK SO A REAL P4P DEFENDS TITTLES HE DOES NOT DO THAT PACBOY JUST JUMPING AROUND WEIGHTS HE SHOULD FIGHT AND DEFEND TITTLES NOT WIN A TITTLE AND TO NEXT WEIGHT. DONT GET ME WORNG HES GOOD BOXER BUT NOT P4P.
Wednesday Nov 18, 2009 09:51:28 PM
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Manny Pacquiao:
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It's official. I won fighter of the decade, you know. Nothing personal, just doing my job.
Tuesday Feb 2, 2010 10:41:29 PM
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Angie And Goody...23 Years Later
Twenty three years later after they seconded Marvin Hagler and Ray Leonard in Las Vegas, Goody Petronelli and Angelo Dundee crossed paths again. This time, it was at Foxwoods. Photo/friend of TSS "The Iceman" John Scully reports there were only pleasantries exchanged. Goody didn't debate the split decision victory enjoyed by Leonard, which to this day Hagler disputes.
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