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Thirty Five Years Later The Magnitude Of Ali Over Foreman Realized
By Frank Lotierzo
It took twenty years before the fistic magnitude of Muhammad Ali’s eighth round title winning knockout of George Foreman emerged fully. Historically, culturally, and iconically, the moment referee Zack Clayton reached the ten count of a fight that took place in the dead of night in Zaire, another element of the Ali legend was cemented. But for the picture to be complete, it still had to be evaluated in terms of its boxing value. And in 1974, it wasn’t known exactly where Foreman stood on that front. In 1994, when at age 45 he knocked out Michael Moorer to claim both the WBA and IBF heavyweight titles, the enormity of Ali’s accomplishment finally came completely to light.
Back in the fall of 1974 reigning heavyweight champion George Foreman 40-0 (37) really believed he couldn't be beat as he readied himself for his October 30th showdown with former champ Muhammad Ali. Foreman won the title from "Smokin" Joe Frazier 29-0 (25) in two rounds roughly twenty-two months after Frazier had defeated Ali in the "Fight Of The Century." Foreman not only defeated Frazier - he put him down six times in just four and a half minutes of fighting. Remember, Ali had to fight Frazier twice before he could claim victory over him. In his second title defense Foreman destroyed the then second ranked contender, Ken Norton, in just two rounds. And as it was the case with Frazier, Ali had to fight Norton twice before he could claim victory over him.
The 25 year-old Foreman who faced Ali in the "Rumble In The Jungle" was a man-child, who due to his overload of natural punching power and physical strength never bothered to learn boxing's basics. George and his head trainer, Dick Saddler, were convinced no fighter — including Muhammad Ali— could stand up to his punch. At that time Foreman coined the names "Deep Sleep" for his left hand and "Instant Death' for his right hand as he was certain Ali would be a sure victim to either punch.
It's been thirty-five years (October 30, 1974) since Ali rumbled in the jungle and by virtue of his eighth round stoppage of Foreman became the second fighter in heavyweight history to lose and regain the title at age 32. And it wasn't until after Ali defeated Foreman that history began to consider him one of the greatest of the greats. As for Foreman, he began to question his punch and stamina, and with the exception of an exhibition where he boxed five different opponents one after the other, he went into seclusion for 15 months.
Foreman finally emerged in January of 1976 with a new trainer, Gil Clancy, and a new style. Under Clancy, Foreman won five straight bouts and then lost a unanimous decision to the then third ranked contender Jimmy Young. George retired in the dressing room immediately after the fight with a career record of 45-2 (42). Ten years later after preaching the Bible and marrying couples at his church in Houston, George Foreman returned to the ring. George wanted to re-write history and change the false perception in some boxing circles that he quit against Ali and lacked the heart of an all-time great heavyweight champ. Not to mention he was nearly broke.
At first Foreman was mocked and his comeback was considered nothing more than a pipe-dream. That all changed on the night of January 15th 1990, when Foreman destroyed 6'6," hard-punching Gerry Cooney in two rounds. A little over a year later Foreman challenged undisputed and undefeated heavyweight champ Evander Holyfield. Holyfield was making his first defense of the title since stopping former champ Buster Douglas in the third round to win it six months earlier, and was a huge favorite to retain it versus Foreman. And to the surprise of many Foreman shook Evander a few times early in their bout and was competitive for most of it. The fight went the distance and Holyfield won a non-controversial 12-round unanimous decision to retain the title.
Three years later Foreman the HBO commentator talked his way into another title fight when he admonished Michael Moorer's performance during his title winning effort against Evander Holyfield in April of 1994. Foreman remarked during the fight that there was something physically wrong with Evander Holyfield, yet Moorer still had his hands full and fought as if becoming heavyweight champion of the world didn't mean much to him. Afterward Moorer took exception to Foreman's words and said he was nothing but a big fake and a phony. A war of words through the media escalated between Moorer and Foreman, resulting in Moorer agreeing to make his first title defense against the 45-year old Foreman.
On November 5th 1994, after losing every round, Foreman knocked Moorer out at 2:03 of the tenth round to win the WBA and IBF heavyweight titles. Exactly twenty years and six days after losing his title and cloak of invincibility to Muhammad Ali in Kinshasa, Zaire, he got it back.
During Foreman's second career 1987-97, he was never knocked off his feet, compiled a record of 31-3 and became the oldest man to ever win the heavyweight title at 45, just two months shy of turning 46. George proved beyond all doubt during his comeback that he certainly didn't lack heart and was as physically and mentally tough as any heavyweight in history.
Looking back over the last 35 years, Ali's upset victory over George Foreman seems like an even greater feat for the then 32-year old ex-champ now than it did then. Ali didn't just out-box Foreman early that morning in Zaire, he out-toughed him and as a result of that it took Foreman years to recover mentally.
For Muhammad Ali it took him beating George Foreman to receive the well deserved accolades he now gets for being the great fighter he's viewed as being through the prism of history. And for George Foreman, losing to Muhammad Ali provided him the want and desire to come back and make history twenty years later and prove he too is among the greatest of the great all-time heavyweight champs.
Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com
NOTE: You can purchase a reprint of that SI cover here www.sicovers.com/product.aspx
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Matthew:
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Spot on again, Frank. It seems kinda hard to fathom in retrospect, but many people generally feared that Foreman might literally kill Ali in the ring that night. Foreman was considered to be a younger, bigger, and even meaner version of Sonny Liston. This fight epitomized Ali's ring genius and his ability to adapt his strategy during the fight. It was ungodly hot, the canvas was soft, the ropes were loose (not Dundee's doing, by the way), and thus, the rope-a-dope was born. Foreman was outfought and outsmarted, and it took him 20 years to exorcise the demons of that night in the jungle.
Friday Oct 30, 2009 10:52:41 AM
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bill m.:
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frank,a great write as usual.what an amazing time it was to be a boxing fan and to have been an ali man to boot.to me,its like all those times in history that you remember where you were when a certain thing happened.when ali beat forman ill always remember where i was and how i felt when he knocked out george forman. you had to be around to understand how feared he was . people were begging ali not to fight him and begging forman not to hurt ali ! here i was 20 years later rooting for george forman to knock out moorer,lol
Friday Oct 30, 2009 10:54:09 AM
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dr3r42:
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Another magnitude of the Ali-Foreman fight was that it cemented Ali's legacy as an ATG. Despite Ali's first war with Frazier, many of the so called experts didn't think he was that tough and believed that he couldn't take a punch (Henry Cooper and Joe Frazier). That was the 1960's view of Ali and it held over until the 1970's. Plus many oldtimers back then gave Foreman more respect than they usually gave modern fighters. Some actually said that he had more raw power than anyone. Almost all the ex-champs picked Foreman to destroy Ali as well (ex-champs were usually polled before big fights back then). Once Ali, who they all claimed was old and shot, beat George, the Ali critics really didn't have a leg to stand on, and sort of had to admit that he was great (either that or they'd have to admit that they didn't know what they were talking about with Foreman). The notion that Ali wasn't tough, or a "pretty boy" who couldn't take a punch or didn't like to get hit, also went by the wayside.
Friday Oct 30, 2009 05:24:54 PM
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dr3r42:
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Another issue about that fight was that "Foreman was outsmarted by the "rope-a-dope." Lots of fighters, usually older ones, had gone into shells or tried to lay on the ropes hoping to tire out there opponent. LaStarza tried it on Marciano, Eddie Machen tried it on Frazier. In fact Ali tried it on Frazier in Manilla and got KILLED on the ropes. After the fight, Dick Sadler and Archie Moore tried to throw Foreman under the bus; giving the usual excuses that people use today "he didn't give him angles." What a crock. They trained Foreman to fight Ali like they did every other boxer, cut the ring off, force him to the ropes or better yet, in the corner, then beat the hell out of Ali on the ropes. The problem was that Ali was mentally and physically tough enough to absorb the beating to his body (and forearms, elbows, ect). It's not like any heavyweight off the street can simply lay on the ropes and cover up, allowing a puncher like Foreman to unload on him round after round. Thing is, George wasn't going to beat Ali in the center of the ring that night either, and he lost about every exchange with Ali in the center of the ring. Ali's a bad style match up for George, just like Frazier/Norton were bad ones for Ali. I serriously doubt if George could have beaten Ali by fighting him at a measured pace, as the Jimmy Young -Foreman fight showed.
Friday Oct 30, 2009 05:39:25 PM
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Robert Curtis:
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It was realized back then! Just listen to the ringside commentary, especially from Jim Brown. Only someone living under a rock didn't know Ali shook up the world a second time.
Friday Oct 30, 2009 07:02:10 PM
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Fe'Roz:
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Great article and great comments above. Many excellent points made. Keep in mind, we are talking about fights being fought globally....but in very remote parts of the world. And the case of Zaire and the Philippines, countries ruled by a dictators looking for legitimacy and willing to pay for it. And still the world, absent new media, was watching. That speaks to a magnetism that boxing has since struggled to and/or been able to sustain. This was a period marked by a plethora of superior talent at the elite level in the Heavyweight division. All eyes...and ears ..were focused on these Bouts. Casual and avid fans alike. The former understood skill and strategy; the latter thought principally of speed and power. And pure braun. What we all learned that night was that boxing is as much if not more about the mental as it was the physical. It was about intelligence. The ability to adapt. The ability to out-think....not simply out-box or overpower. That was a revelation. Ali always prided himself on his intelligence and wit outside the ring. That night he proved beyond question that he possessed it in every arena. He added new dimension to his legacy.....and revealed greater dimension to boxing in general. Both men paid a great price that night.....and we have them to thank. For they have made us richer.
Friday Oct 30, 2009 08:50:23 PM
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brownsugar:
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just watched the fight again,. it's playing in tribute on ESPN (website),.. fell asleep because I've seen that fight so many times I know every punch by heart,.. like the words to a favorite song,.. Ali wasn't supposed to have that much left,.. but the look in his eyes as he trash talked Foreman during the staredown told it all... there was fire in his eyes,.. that wasn't evident since he fought Liston and Cleveland Williams,..It took the best to bring out the best in Ali,... he thrived on it......
Friday Oct 30, 2009 09:15:27 PM
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Robert Curtis:
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Nothing to read into this fight. Ali was supreme and spiritually majestic. Foreman was a bully who learned a lesson. dr3r42 is talking way too much as usual. Friggin' geezer needs to humble himself.
Friday Oct 30, 2009 10:12:34 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Robert Curtis:
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RC, don't mince words. Say what you really mean. pc
Friday Oct 30, 2009 10:15:48 PM
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Isaiah:
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This will always be an epic fight and should be shown to some guys nowadays that you can both be able OUTBOX and OUTTOUGH your opponent in the same fight. I can think of a name or two. HEH HEH.
Friday Oct 30, 2009 10:21:18 PM
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Robert Curtis:
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This is a fight I don't debate. The count was fast, yes, but Foreman was completely outclassed and outfoxed. Anyone can watch it. The fight is on DVD and the net.
Friday Oct 30, 2009 10:32:59 PM
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floyd jones d greatest:
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guys guys hold your horses please!big george was dehydrated that night by his trainer.perhaps something dirty was planned by the other camp don't you think?plus george asked for a rematch but this were all turned down by ali.perhaps fearing that a fully hyydrated george would kill him in the ring.however, ali, sugar ray,rjj, floyd are still my all time greats.hahahaha
Friday Oct 30, 2009 10:47:51 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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Foreman was done before he fell. He thought he could take Ali early and he thought wrong. After a hellacious early set, his power quickly diminished. Near the end, he was punching and pawing. With his arms. The jig was up..... before he went down
Friday Oct 30, 2009 10:56:38 PM
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Robert Curtis:
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The magnitude at the time is what counted. Nothing today compares. Ali was the most dynamic figure of the civil rights movement still alive in 1974. Malcolm and Martin had been murdered. Ali inspired us all.
Friday Oct 30, 2009 11:00:30 PM
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dr3r42:
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I am still under 50, so I doubt if the geezer tag's legit, but whatever. At least I try and use some facts to back up my opinions, like Sonny Liston wasn't an old man when he fought Ali, or Cus D'Amato/Jacobs/ Clayton used Mike Tyson like everyone else did
Friday Oct 30, 2009 11:06:04 PM
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Robert Curtis:
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Aww, Mr. R2D2 doesn't like me. Why doesn't he use his real name? I'm bored. Are we really letting his fly-speck opinion change our view of this historic fight?
Friday Oct 30, 2009 11:27:53 PM
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Alokwe:
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Can we talk about how Ali ducked a Foreman rematch?
Saturday Oct 31, 2009 02:01:34 AM
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The Greatest's Greatest Fan:
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Yeah, why not? Go ahead, Alokwe! Tell us exactly when Ali supposedly ducked Foreman. Tell us just when Ali was suposed to fight him and then I will tell you why you are oh so wrong! Also, let me know if you are actually old enough to remember the actual events as they occured.
Saturday Oct 31, 2009 03:53:44 PM
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The Greatest's Greatest Fan:
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What has dr3r42 said that is so controversial? Maybe I missed something. It seems that what he has said has made sense to me.
I was lucky enough to live close enough so that I could watch all of Foreman's public workouts before they left for Africa. The mistake they made was that they only trained Foreman for general conditioning and cutting off the ring. As soon as he got a sparring partner on the ropes, Saddler blew a whistle to call him off. Foreman was a mean-spirited bully back in those days and sometimes wouldn't stop. He punched the hell out of his sparring partners whenever he got the urge. I talked to them all and to a man his sparring partners hated Big George's guts. The point I am trying to make -- if it isn't clear-- is that they never gave Foreman any advice on how to finish the guy on the ropes because they thought it was simply a foregone conclusion that Ali would fall like everyone else had. NOT!
Saturday Oct 31, 2009 04:04:45 PM
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Alokwe:
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Ali ducked a rematch with Foreman, of course it isn't PC to say so these days and that aspect of history has been totally erased but it happened. He tried to get Norton and other guys to face Foreman instead and did everything to avoid facing him again. Are you arguing now that Foreman didn't actively chase a rematch?
Saturday Oct 31, 2009 04:51:38 PM
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The Greatest's Greatest Fan:
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Ali was fighting one big fight a year after regaining his championship. Foreman was inactive for 13 months after being kayoed by Ali and during this time Ali whupped Frazier in the Thrilla in Manila. This was the fight that both the public and history demanded. Do you have a problem with Ali settling his score with Frazier in the fall of 75? I kinda doubt that you do. Now in 76 Foreman begins to get his career back on track beating Lyle and Frazier, both of whom Ali had recently kayoed. But if you were around in 76 (you never told me if you were), the big fight everyone wanted to see was the rubber match between Ali and Norton. Norton was on a seven fight winning streak many of the "experts" were e predicting a Norton victory. Ali won and nobody said that Ali had taken an easy fight that night. Foreman was considered a head case at the time and Norton was universally considered Ali's toughest possible opponent and that is the fight he too. Then, in March of 77 when all Foreman had to do to get a title fight with Muhammad was to beat Jimmy Young, he LOST! Is that Ali's fault? Therefore, in the Fall of 77 Ali fought a very deserving Earnie Shavers. Was that an easy fight? So I disagree with you, I think it is very PC these days to say Ali ducked a Foreman rematch. Dumping on Ali has always been in vogue for small-minded people.
Saturday Oct 31, 2009 07:17:09 PM
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brownsugar:
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Foreman was never the same after Ali,..Foremans greatest asset next to his incredibly powerful punches was his confidence... his aura of invincibility,... once that was shattered he was no longer himself,.. he doubted himself and tried to be more of a boxer,.. instead of a savage puncher,... he became so tentative that Jimmy Young gave him a quick fisted thrashing,.. Ali crushed Foreman spiritually,.. it would take a decade for the wounds to heal,..
Saturday Oct 31, 2009 07:17:49 PM
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Twik:
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You get them, the greatest's greatest fan. What I write cannot seem to stay posted. Maybe they think I'm somebody that they don't like no more.
Saturday Oct 31, 2009 08:07:19 PM
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Alokwe:
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The Greatest's Greatest Fan: of course I was around in 1976- I was born in 75! But seriously Ali was very reluctant to face Foreman again, I'd try to find articles to back this up. I even heard Foreman took out full page ads calling Ali out but Ali declined.
Sunday Nov 1, 2009 10:24:04 AM
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Alokwe:
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By the way guys, if you haven't discovered it already, sports illustrated has an online vault (si vault in google) that has loads of reports, you can read about all the past fighters and fights, the intrigues of the time and everything else concerning that period if and more. Check them out, I believe they give a better idea of what the perception was at the time as opposed to what is now being fed to us (not taking anything away from The Greatest' Greatest fan).
Sunday Nov 1, 2009 10:41:46 AM
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The Greatest's Greatest Fan:
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Yes, I agree that Foreman would have liked a rematch, who wouldn't. Ali, for example, would have loved a rematch against Frazier after their fight in 71. Even though this was THE FIGHT that the whole world wanted to see, Frazier fought Stander and Daniels instead. But in this case, Ali-Foreman II was never THE FIGHT that the public demanded. In 75, when Foreman was inactive, THE FIGHT the public wanted was a third fight with Joe Frazier. In 76, when Foreman finally was beginning to get his act together, THE FIGHT the public wanted was a third fight with Ken Norton. Then in 77, Foreman was already retired before Ali chose his opponent for his big Fall title defense against Earnie Shavers. Therefore, if you analyze it, there never was a time when a rematch with Foreman was THE FIGHT that the public demanded. It would likely have been the big fight of 77 if Foreman had defeated Young, but he did not. Sure, Ali could have fought Foreman again, but if he had, he wouldn't have fought a third fight with either Norton or Frazier. If that had been the case, we would be writing here 35 years later that Ali had ducked one of them. It is a no-win situation. The truth is that Foreman never put himself into the position of being the challenger that the public demanded. There are, of course, multitudes of subjects in which I do not shine, but if the subject is Muhammad Ali you can forget consulting Sports Illustrated, just give me a call. If you don’t want to call me, just call Frank Lotierzo. He is the greatest Aliologist I know.
Sunday Nov 1, 2009 03:45:02 PM
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Isaiah:
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Unfortunatly, I wasn't born until "83. A Foreman rematch I'm betting would have been great, but sadly it wasn't meant to be. A few months back when Ali was at the Ali Center and they were replaying the Ali/Foreman match in front of a live audience and they showed Foreman getting knocked out, the crowd cheered. Foreman was on the phone at the time and JOKINGLY said he wanted a rematch. Trust me, this was all in good fun, but the truth is that fight and "Big George" never getting the chance again to show the world he could be Ali, will haunt him until the day he dies. Ask yourself this question. If we could somehow magically put them back in their prime, both young, healthy, strong and of course Ali disease free, the rematch would be on like Donkey Kong and would do like 3 million PPV buys. All credit to Ali though who still beat the best and ducked no one, but he is still behind Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano in my opinion, and I'll always wonder how the rematch would have been. Too bad the world will never know.
Sunday Nov 1, 2009 03:50:19 PM
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Isaiah:
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TYPO. Show the world he could BEAT ALI, NOT BE ALI! HA!
Sunday Nov 1, 2009 03:52:54 PM
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Stop the big R:
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Donkey Kong is a TYPO too. NOT! You are just a racist. I'm beginning to believe that Eastar is right about this site. Subtle racist comments about African American are always appearing. Give Don King so respect as a human being, promoter and entrepreneur. What i write will probably not see the light of day.
Sunday Nov 1, 2009 05:27:40 PM
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Isaiah:
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SHUTUP FOOL!!! Fools quick to scream about what they know nothing about. An obviously highly used term like, on like Donkey Kong has only to do with the build of a fight. Children like yourself need to stop making stuff up and trying to start trouble. Don King is an evil, back stabbing a$$ who would gladly take your last dollar. I think N. Valuev looks like a gorilla too and I bet since that man is white, you''re going to just sit in your corner and say nothing, aren't you? You fools who want people to walk on egg shells and make a fight about anything are the ones who keep hate alive and keep races against eachother for fear that any word they use will be used against them. YOU, STOP the subtle racism. Ali and Foreman are awesome REAL MEN for life and don't give a rat's behind what you have to say, brownnoser. Quick, get me, I used the word brown, you idiot.
Sunday Nov 1, 2009 06:48:07 PM
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MR. ALI IS THE BEST:
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THE BEST FIGHT IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT. PERIOD.
Sunday Nov 1, 2009 08:40:08 PM
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Isiah b:
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Those shoes and that ice cream cone hat fit.
Sunday Nov 1, 2009 09:27:21 PM
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Matthew:
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The Greatest's Greatest Fan is on the mark here. There was mild public interest in an Ali-Foreman rematch, but it was never the fight the public demanded. George was like a little lost puppy during all of '75, and then decided to stage that ridiculous exhibition in Toronto where he fought 5 guys in one night. Did people really think that Foreman, after being knocked down twice and nearly out against Lyle, would beat Ali in a rematch? I think not. Rematches with Frazier and Norton were what the public wanted, and then Foreman retired after losing to Jimmy Young, so it never came off.
Monday Nov 2, 2009 08:08:28 AM
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Joe:
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It was a beautiful fight, Ali's best performance of all times. I could watch it a thousand more times.
"Am I the greatest fighter of all times"
"Everybody stop talking attention"
"Was it a close fight"
Tuesday Nov 3, 2009 08:07:42 AM
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2009 Reader Of The Year Weighs In On Legacies Of Pacquiao And Mayweather
"Pacquiao has proven....in the ring... time and time again that he is the greatest of this time. He has earned his respect. He begs for nothing. He is a man content with his growth, his family and his achievements. A man the world has now turned it's eyes to behold. Floyd Mayweather is not even close in stature. He may possess the greatest skills but he is not the Face of Boxing today. Google Manny Pacquiao. There are 20 million searches. Google Floyd. There are 6.5 million. Look at the NYTimes, the Wall Street Journal and Time. Count how many words were used these past years to mention Floyd Mayweather. Then count the words still being printed about Manny. And keep counting. As I've said many times, Floyd has been too clever by half. He has short changed his public.....and has out-smarted himself. Manny will fight but a few more times. Enjoy it while you can. He is an all time great pugilist. Floyd, with all of his remarkable skills lack the will to be truly great in the biggest sense of the word. His legacy will look more like Holmes that Ali. He has earned it." ---November is half-way gone, but we don't need to keep counting ballots. It's a landslide. Fe'Roz has won the 2009 Reader of the Year award. His comments add to the website immeasurably, and he epitomizes the thoughtful, respectful, educated fan of pugilism we strive to cater to at TSS. Congrats, Fe'Roz, and please accept my thanks for being the valued member of this community that you are. Sincerely, Editor Mike
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