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| F-Lo sees Valuev wearing down Haye. EM thinks Haye will land that massive thumper that topples the giant for the stoppage win. What do you foresee, reader? |
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Does This David Have A Chance Against Goliath?
By Frank Lotierzo
You’ve got to give David Haye credit for picking his giants carefully. While fishing this past summer he caught two big ones. In the process of reeling them in, he realized that they’d be too much to handle once he’d gotten them onto the boat. He quickly cut bait and bailed out. He waited for a little time to pass, cast his line again, and wound up hooking a still bigger fish. The difference this time is that his latest catch doesn’t put up much of a struggle.
So the question is: Does little former cruiserweight champion David Haye have what it takes to land the WBA heavyweight championship from boxing’s biggest ever title holder, Nikolay Valuev?
That’s the first and last of a lot of unanswered questions about this fight. In many ways, we know more about what each of these guys can’t do than about what they can.
But we’ll start with what they can do.
David Haye can punch, especially with his right. Although not a fluid mover, he’s able to get around the ring fairly quickly and certainly much more quickly than the immobile Valuev. And frankly, that’s about all Haye has as a fighter. Apart from that, he’s a great talker and he’s been taking his vitamins, to boot.
Nikolay Valuev is able to throw a near ring-length jab with some pop from the first bell to the last. For a man his size, he’s in incredible condition. He’s physically strong too, but he's not a big puncher. And that’s about it. Actually, his jab may be tapering off some. He barely threw any during the later rounds of the dance marathon that was billed as a fight last December against Evander Holyfield. So maybe he’s just in shape and strong. That’s not much for a heavyweight champion to brag about, is it?
Valuev, who wasn’t very good to begin with, seems to be going through a fairly rapid decline. A couple of years ago, when winning questionable decisions against good fighters like John Ruiz and Larry Donald and more recently an indisputable one against Sergey Lyakhovich, Valuev kept up an unimaginative but steady stream of left jabs. Because of his immensity, this punch alone was enough to make it difficult for opponents to get near enough to cause him any damage. But against Holyfield, the jab was no longer in evidence. And his conditioning, which has always been a staple for him, didn’t factor in against a forty-six year old man who was outweighed by nearly one hundred pounds and who has a career history of terrible conditioning. Furthermore, I think that Valuev’s chin, once reached, is very unreliable. In what was supposed to be his US coming out party (he’d fought in the States a couple of times earlier in his career), he was rocked on a number of occasions by light hitting Monte Barrett. And before he conveniently bowed out in the third round of their 2007 fight, obedient Jameel McCline hurt him.
A lot of this may stem from Valuev’s being a reluctant warrior. It’s clear that he doesn’t enjoy boxing, has no natural aptitude for it, and is simply trying to earn a good living before settling into middle age. It seems many Eastern Bloc fighters view boxing as a means to set them up for whatever they're going to do for the rest of their lives.
These are all good signs for David Haye. But Haye has problems of his own. Although he’ll probably come into the fight at about 215 pounds, he’s really a cruiserweight with some nutritional supplement assistance. He’ll be outweighed by 100 pounds anyway, but if he were in true boxing shape, it’d be more like 120. Haye has boxed—this isn’t a typo— only 84 professional rounds. He has gone over ten rounds once. Although I don’t believe that he’s intending to go more than a few rounds this time out, he’s going to have a major problem if Valuev doesn’t prove cooperative. And while it’s true that the champion is no puncher, Haye’s chin is very poor. He’s been knocked out by Carl Thompson, who’s a good banger, but who has fought nearly half of his career at light heavyweight. Light hitting Jean Marc Mormeck also had him on the deck.
As if all this isn’t enough of a deterrent, Haye will be fighting Valuev in Germany , where Wilfred Sauerland has kept the champion as protected as a newborn. In order to knock the big guy out, Haye is going to have to make sure that the punch that does it doesn’t stray out of the face area.
At first, I didn’t understand why David Haye would withdraw from two huge paydays in favor of a much smaller, although still lucrative, one. But I’ve figured it out. David Haye is thinking, "I might actually beat Valuev! And then I’ll make even more money when Wlad or Vitali knocks me out.”
He probably should have taken the Wladimir Klitschko fight first though. Wlad is by far the brother more susceptible to being kayoed by a good, unpredictable puncher. The likelihood is that Haye himself would have been knocked out by Klitschko in a round or two, but he would have collected bigtime for the privilege. Reassured by that loss, Sauerland and company would have still given Haye a call. If he loses to Valuev, the option of fighting either Klitschko will be off the table. That’s what I expect will happen on November 7th.
Look for Nikolay Valuev’s size and conditioning to be too much for David Haye to overcome, he’ll be worn down and stopped somewhere around the 8th or 9th round.
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deepwater:
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haye wins easy.
Monday Oct 26, 2009 02:28:10 PM
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Frank Z:
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I 'll have to watch more of valuev, but if those people you named can hurt him, i can definitely see haye putting his lights out. haye's raw but he is powerful and fast. PS: i'm dont' claim to be a big fashion guy, but isn't that bandana on haye about 10 years out lol?
Monday Oct 26, 2009 02:45:19 PM
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Joe:
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It's worth $24.99. I hope Haye wins, he's much more exciting for the division. Someone should have gotten rid of the "Hairy Giant" before now!!
Monday Oct 26, 2009 02:53:59 PM
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dr3r42:
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I believe Haye backed out against Wlad, because he ran the risk of getting KO'ed for nothing. He gave the Klitchkko's a huge favor in the purse, along with rematch clauses not only for Wlad to fight him in a rematch if Wlad lost, but for Vitali to fight him as well if Haye beat Wlad twice in a row (I've heard of rematch clauses, but never one that included the big brother). Haye's only money maker in the contract was that he would get 100% of the TV rights from Setana Sports (I think), who was the British distrubuter of the fight. Setana was rumored to be on the verge of bancruptcy this summer, and Haye suddenly had a back injury.
Monday Oct 26, 2009 02:57:24 PM
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dp69 relaxing at home:
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I agree with EM...i think is all gonna come down to that one lucky KO punch....and i think that lucky guy is gonna be haye....i say haye by 9th round KO...holla back!!!
Monday Oct 26, 2009 02:59:34 PM
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dr3r42:
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Business-wise, I think it was a smart move by Haye. The Klitchkko's had him by the gnads in negotitations (like they have practically everyone else) since they're his only money fight. They knew he didn't want to take any risk by fighting a contender, so they stuck it to him in negotiations. He was going to get a couple million for getting KO'ed by Vitali, but as F-Lo mentioned along came Valuev. Now he'll get a decent payday and is in a winnable fight. If he beats Valuev, then he'll have some leverage on either brother- right now he has none. I think the dumbest move was when Valuev listened to King and Saurland and turned down a 50-50 split with Vitali. That was crazy; he'd make more in that fight than his WBA merri-go-round of Chagaev, Ruiz, and now Hollfyfield. Plus he may lose to one of them or Haye. I can't see him ever getting more than 50-50 with Vitali (as if he had any business getting that offer in the first place). Valuev can't even get US TV to show any of his defenses, not even against Haye (who you'd think there would be US interest because of his mouth).
Monday Oct 26, 2009 03:09:29 PM
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Robert Curtis:
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Yet another fight between a mountain and a midget. At least we were in on the joke when Money May fought Big Show for Vince McMahon. Doesn't anybody fight guys there own size anymore? Neither of these fighters have proven anything, not even to their own mamas. They aren't now and never will be natural born world-shakers. My prediction: A long boring-a$$ fight. A waltzing moose versus waltzing mouse. The photograph above tells all. They look like a couple on Jerry Springer.
Monday Oct 26, 2009 04:23:26 PM
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brownsugar:
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Jerry Springer,.. what an apt description,..can't add anything to that,..lol....
Monday Oct 26, 2009 04:35:19 PM
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gb:
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Not sure I'd describe Mormeck as "light hitting." Haye's chin is suspect for reasons that have nothing to do with him getting decked by Mormeck.
Monday Oct 26, 2009 05:41:02 PM
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Mike M:
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I tell you what an intriguing fight would be win or lose for Haye. Haye versus Adamek is a fight i think would be fun to watch. While i don't think Adamek has a shot against either Klitschko i would pay to see Adamek versus Haye. I have never seen Haye or Valuev fight live so i have no idea how this fight will go. Other heavyweight fights i would like to see and would be wars are:
1) Povetkin v. Arreola
2) Tua v. Arreola
3) Boystov v. Chagaev
4) Boystov v. Arreola
5) Wlad Klitschko v. Haye
6) Tua v. Ruiz II (just to see if Tua can beat his 19 second KO)
7) Sam Peter v. Arreola or Boystov
There is nobody out there who can beat Vitali right now and only see Lennox Lewis as being a fight i would consider somewhat competitive. If Valuev beats Haye then that is who Vitali should gun for but i seriously doubt Valuev's team will make that fight. Anyone got some other matchups out there at heavyweight?
Monday Oct 26, 2009 06:27:48 PM
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Isaiah:
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Are you serious?! Haye turned down a 50/50 split with Vitlai? What an idiot! Haye better start making people care about him again. Vitali could have easily made that purse a 60/40 split for a Klitschko favor and it still would have been very reasonable for Haye. Anyway, it woudn't shock me if Valuev beat Haye. Stranger things have happened, but my official prediction is Haye wins a boring UD.
Monday Oct 26, 2009 06:29:59 PM
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dr3r42:
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No, I said Valuev turned down a 50-50 split (I should have made it clearer) with Vitali. Vitali desperatly wanted to unify the titles with his brother, probably so he could retire (unless a big money fight was out there) so his company (K2 Productions) offered Valuev 50-50, but the big stiff turned it down. Not sure what they offered Haye, probably around 2 or 3 million (about the same that Arreolla got and KJ probably will get.
Monday Oct 26, 2009 07:07:13 PM
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Wayne:
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The picture looks like Randy "Macho Man" Savage against Andre
"The Giant".
Monday Oct 26, 2009 07:13:00 PM
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Isaiah@dr3r42:
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My mistake, I was busy working and just kind of glanced at your comment. Oh well. No harm, no foul. I do think that elite fighters are getting to spoiled though if a couple million dollars for one fight isn't good enough. HA!
Monday Oct 26, 2009 07:59:01 PM
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Eggs:
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Haven't a clue but it should be fun. I just like the Hayemaker so I'm rooting for him.
Monday Oct 26, 2009 09:05:36 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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Growing up in Philadelphia, we were raised with boxing. There were so many great warriors to watch fighting real ring wars, I never acquired much taste for things like the the circus or the carnival. Movies maybe...but the carnival, not. It is no coincidence that Stallone shot Rocky in Philadelphia. Haye versus Valuev is neither a war....nor a film I care to see. I am reminded however of another of my favorite movies; one featuring Bruce Willis as the not-so-fortunate boxer. Pulp Fiction. And my favorite scene, where
Zed says 'Bring out the Gimp'. Maynard answers: Gimp's sleeping. Zed replies: "Well, I guess you're gonna have to go wake him up now, won't you?" Wake me up when this Carnie act is over.
Monday Oct 26, 2009 10:30:41 PM
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Pete steward:
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HAYE!....In 1rd
Monday Oct 26, 2009 11:34:14 PM
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arturo:
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was that really fe'roz or Larry Merchant?
Tuesday Oct 27, 2009 01:16:28 AM
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Isaiah/LookingToBeCivil:
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Using your analogy MisterLee, hope you don't mind. Boxing Hater throws football, Isaiah intercepts, passes to MisterLee, MisterLee is at the 50! Passes to dr3r42, He's at the 40, passes to Eggs, he's at the 30, passes to Fe'Roz, he's at the 20, passes back to Isaiah who passes it immediately to Kountedout, Don King trys to tackle Kountedout, Radam G tackles Don King, Bob Arum tries to tackle Kountedout, MisterLee tackles Bob Arum! Kountedout is at the 10! Oscar De La Hoya tries to tackle Isaiah and OSCAR TRIPS OVER HIS FISHNET STOCKINGS!!! 3 Seconds left! Can KOUNTEDOUT GO ALL THE WAY?!!!
Tuesday Oct 27, 2009 02:56:12 AM
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James:
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"And then I’ll make even more money when Wlad or Vitali knocks me out.”
This is not the mindset of any professional boxer, especially a former undisputed world champion. Any boxing writer who makes such a statement really doesn't boxing, boxers, or deserve to be published.
Tuesday Oct 27, 2009 04:47:28 AM
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Fistic Fury:
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In neutral territory Haye could of boxed his ears off for 12 rounds but in Germany he will need a KO and i'll be amazed if he doesn't get it. Haye the new champion and eventual Klitschko victim...
Tuesday Oct 27, 2009 05:25:25 AM
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Sam Kurt:
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Close fight.
Tuesday Oct 27, 2009 05:41:47 AM
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Isaiah Looking:
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Boxing lover throws football, Isaiah instercepts, passes to Caesar and RuPaul. they pass it to Pee-wee Herman and Boy George, I trip over my fishnet stocking and Tennessee Williams, Emile Griffine and Kontedout tackles me. We didn't go all the way.
Tuesday Oct 27, 2009 05:53:51 AM
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bill m.:
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somehow valuev always seems to get the win in what always is a boring match. to beat him you have to dog him,stay close and throw those overhand rts non stop.you have to hand it to nico,what the hell else would he do at 7ft +? jockey?
Tuesday Oct 27, 2009 09:59:23 AM
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Matthew:
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This fight has very little appeal to me, but at least John Ruiz isn't involved, so I guess it could be worse. Valuev is absolutely dreadful, and the fact that his chin is suspect plays in Haye's favor. He also is not a terribly hard puncher, and is pathetically slow. If Haye doesn't get caught cold (not an absolute certainty), I think he wins.
Tuesday Oct 27, 2009 10:16:04 AM
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Scott M:
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I have a bad feeling that Goliath may be too much for David. Valuev is so damn big, Haye will have to use a lot of movement to stay clear of Valuev's jab. If he doesn't, the bigger man will jab, tie Haye up, and lean on him. Either way, I think Haye will eventually tire, and he may get stopped, as he did in the Carl Thompson fight . But, I'd love to see Haye land a big bomb just to see how Valuev reacts to it. Heavyweight boxing needs an exciting, charismatic puncher, but I just don't think Haye will live up to his own hype. I'm rooting for Haye, but I'll be surprised if he wins- and even if he does, he won't get past the Klitschkos.
Tuesday Oct 27, 2009 12:24:35 PM
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Freemore:
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This is a terrible article. Similar to the last article of this nature most probably written by someone who has watched Haye fight once or twice. James knocks the nail on the head mentioning the stupid statement this writer makes regarding Hayes mentality.
Haye stops Valuev and Wlad no problem. He will make a big splash in the heavyweight division on the 7th.
Tuesday Oct 27, 2009 01:35:55 PM
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Chuck Norris:
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This article and people who use other people's logins as their own displease me. Keep this up and I will delete the internet.
Tuesday Oct 27, 2009 08:17:44 PM
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AFN:
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Evander was robbed. Haye may not have Evander's chin, but he is a decade or so younger, faster, fitter, and has a bucket of self belief. He may weather a few clubs, but will likely be able to land a flush one and KO the giant (then get DQ as he won't be able to tell that Valuev is down as he'll still be taller than him). EL TOONOY
Wednesday Oct 28, 2009 09:36:21 AM
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Kieran:
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You wrote that David Haye has never boxed beyond the 10th round. That's wrong; he won a 12 round decision against Ismail Abdoul.
Wednesday Oct 28, 2009 03:14:17 PM
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LeRoy A. Peters:
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Valuev wins by 6 round KNOCKOUT, THEN it will Vitali Klitschko vs. Nicolay Valuev to unify the WBC/WBA Titles next summer in a fight of the year!!
Wednesday Oct 28, 2009 04:30:17 PM
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hinduw:
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as much as i despise haye, what valuev has never faced is someone like mayweather. this is gonna be paul williams vs mayweather really, only both heavyweights. valuev doesnt know how to fight someone with speed who potshots, which is what valuev will do..sigh...
Wednesday Oct 28, 2009 05:02:37 PM
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2009 Reader Of The Year Weighs In On Legacies Of Pacquiao And Mayweather
"Pacquiao has proven....in the ring... time and time again that he is the greatest of this time. He has earned his respect. He begs for nothing. He is a man content with his growth, his family and his achievements. A man the world has now turned it's eyes to behold. Floyd Mayweather is not even close in stature. He may possess the greatest skills but he is not the Face of Boxing today. Google Manny Pacquiao. There are 20 million searches. Google Floyd. There are 6.5 million. Look at the NYTimes, the Wall Street Journal and Time. Count how many words were used these past years to mention Floyd Mayweather. Then count the words still being printed about Manny. And keep counting. As I've said many times, Floyd has been too clever by half. He has short changed his public.....and has out-smarted himself. Manny will fight but a few more times. Enjoy it while you can. He is an all time great pugilist. Floyd, with all of his remarkable skills lack the will to be truly great in the biggest sense of the word. His legacy will look more like Holmes that Ali. He has earned it." ---November is half-way gone, but we don't need to keep counting ballots. It's a landslide. Fe'Roz has won the 2009 Reader of the Year award. His comments add to the website immeasurably, and he epitomizes the thoughtful, respectful, educated fan of pugilism we strive to cater to at TSS. Congrats, Fe'Roz, and please accept my thanks for being the valued member of this community that you are. Sincerely, Editor Mike
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