Mtagwa has rocketed up the list of TSS-EM's list of favorite fighters. The heart on this guy, a mile wide. The cajones, bigger than bowling balls. Mtgawa, boma yaye!
Could Rogers Mtagwa Get A Rematch With Juan Manuel Lopez?
By Michael Woods
The calls for a rematch will be loud and consistent, but it is doubtful we will see JuanMa give Roger Mtagwa another shot at his WBO super banamweight title.
Promoter Bob Arum said as much post-bout and Top Rank matchmaker Carl Moretti confirmed it to TSS after the scintillating main event.
Nobody knew going in just how much of a tussle Mtagwa would give JuanMa. All knew he hard heart and a knack for late-inning heroics, but the Philly-based hitter opened up eyes and earned himself a load of new fans with his exploits. “We knew Mtagwa was going to be a real tough guy,” Arum said.
Nobody knew he’d be like a zombie on meth--in a good way!--and be a combo away from being the champion, though.
TSS wonders how much this fight will take out of JuanMa; he has an HBO date, on Jan. 23rd, and presumably will be ready to rock. Sadly, Mtagwa is not on the short list of foes, which is comprised of Steven Lueveno, Celestino Caballero and Elio Rojas.
TSS basically begged Moretti to get JuanMa to give Mtagwa another crack. The response? “HBO would never buy it,” said Moretti. And besides, “Once was enough!”
And if TSS demands it? “Watch it on tape,” said Moretti with a grin.
The matchmaker admitted his heart was beating out of his chest in 11 and 12, and showed off a smear of blood on his blazer as proof.
Moretti said he and compadre Bruce Trampler knew Mtagwa would give a fight, but thought he was a bit long in the tooth. That he was still active and tossing hard shots in the 12th round blew Moretti away.He allowed that the 26-year-old JuanMa may have slightly looked past the 30-year-old Tanzanian-Philadelphian.
He was reminded, he said, of the 1990 Chavez/Taylor fight, in which Taylor merely needed to finish the 12th, and he would've gotten the W. JuanMa managed to go the distance, while Taylor didn't, of course.
What if, TSS asked, HBO did the right thing, and ponied up big bucks to obtain JuanMa-Mtagwa 2? Would Top Rank bite?
“Doubtful,” Moretti said. “I think JuanMa wants to fight a world champion.”
TSS will push for another shot for Mtagwa, you can be sure. But some Top Rankers explained that market research, and history, shows that rematches often don't make for good business. Clamor results in the fighters engaging in the sequel getting top dollar, and surprisingly, many fans give the re-do a pass, figuring they've seen the best of them. Basically, been there, done that. And thus, rematches don't usually mean good business for promoters. And since this is a business, the facts of the figures usually rule.
SPEEDBAG Promoter Lou Dibella, who I’ve seen at a classic rock show or two in NYC, gave the Kiss show in the big room at Madison Square Garden a pass, and instead took in the “Latin Fury” card.
Dibella is on an upswing, with Paulie Malignaggi getting more mileage out of a loss than any fighter in recent memory, and with Andre Berto on the cusp of a career-defining fight against Shane Mosley.
TSS gave Lou the third degree on where negotiations stand with Malignaggi as the Brooklyn pugilist tries to secure a rematch with Juan Diaz, and with Berto, who will likely get a chance to break out from the pack when he gloves up against Shane Mosley in a welterweight title consolidation.
First up, it’s looking like Paulie-Diaz will get done, for Dec. 12th. Dibella said he talked to Diaz’ people at Golden Boy, and they are confident Diaz will sign off a on a contract which has the two lightweights fighting at 139 pounds in a 20 foot ring. Chicago, with a dense base of Mexicans and Italians, is in the running with Vegas to host the show.
As for WBC champ Berto, he’ll probably end up fighting WBA champ Mosley on Jan. 30, at Mosley’s preferred spot, Mandalay Bay in Vegas. “We’re close enough the deal could get done within a week,” Dibella said. “If it didn’t happen, though, it wouldn’t shock me.”
Dibella also handles Kermit Cintron, who will fight in Puerto Rico, against 15-2 BrazilianJuliano Ramos on Oct. 24. Cintron was born in Carolina, PR, and this will be his first scrap in PR.
Dibella fighter Carlos Quintana, the promoter hopes, will be geared up and in the zone mentally when he meets Joshua Clottey on Dec. 5 in Atlantic City. “These are two of the seven or eight best welterweights in a great clash of styles, Dibella said. The promoter gives Clottey, coming off a narrow loss to Miguel Cotto in June,a 55-45 edge going in. Quintana will shed some rust on Oct. 24 on the Cintron-Ramos undercard, against 15-7 Jesse Feliciano, coming off back to back losses to Cintron in 2007 and then Andrey Tsurkan in 2008 Dibella is also hoping Sergio Martinez, the WBC interim 154 pound champ, will fight on the Malignaggi-Diaz II undercard, to stay sharp. He is being targeted by Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.
Not sure why—Martinez is way too seasoned for Junior.
Could be wrong, but did Chavez not knock Taylor out in the dying seconds after getting spanked for 10 rounds out of 12?
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 10:42:17 AM
RG -- Huwag kayong tumatawag para ang rematch - JuanMa ay masmagaling:
JuanMa should not give that cat a rematch. Mtagwa hit the lotto and didn't turn the ticket in in time. If play long, you play wrong, your for glory is gone, and will bite your butt like a sad song, so just move on. Mtagwa would be destroyed in short fashion in a rematch. JuanMa did not expect much from him and that threw JuanMa off. In a second bout, JuanMa would do Mtagwa, the way Joe Louis did Billy Conn in the second bout. The way Joe Louis did Jersey Joe Walcott in the second bout. The way Joe Louis did Max Schemling in the second bout. The way Long Tall Paul did Quintana in the second bout. The way Roy Jones did Montel Griffin in the second bout. The way Sugar Ray Leonard did Roberto Duran in the second bout. The way Lennox Lewis did Oliver Lewis and Hisham Rahman in the second bouts. Mtagwa ought to just fade away and live on the illusion that he coulda, shoulda, woulda beat a world elite. For against JuanMa, in a second bout, Mtawag will be able to compete. And JuanMa would put him to sleep faster than a heart can beep. Holla!
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 11:57:01 AM
RG -- matalinong siya at mapakumbabang PacManite:
*your glory is gone...
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 12:01:39 PM
RG - Tama na:
**Mtwagwa will not be able to compete...
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 12:14:29 PM
brownsugar:
there's not point,.. well there is but the risk outweighs the reward,.. Mtagwa will use the bull-rush-headbutts as his 3rd arm,.. punch behind the head,... hit after the bell,.. and spit at him from the corner,... Juanma doesn't need Mtagwa to open up even more cuts,.. Juanma knows better,... dirty fights with wild opponents can cut a fighters career in half....
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 12:25:11 PM
Fe'Roz :
No Way. That was Mtagwa's chance. He earned his footnote....and missed his one chance. A little discipline at the right time....and he would....or certainly could.... have won by KO. Like froch did against JT, He had only to walk over, shorten his ridiculously wide punches ...and finish Juanma off. But he didn't. And it's time to move on.
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 12:42:55 PM
Jeff the rican :
Na, no rematch needed. Mtagwa almost did a buster douglas but he didn't finish the him off.
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 03:01:28 PM
hector:
No point on a second bout. A dirty fighter only gets a chance. A run of the mill referee should only get one chance...I do not believe any champion's manager will put his man against Mtagwa. Much to lose, nothing to gain...head produced cuts, low blows, punches after the bell, back of the head punches, punches after the referee calls stop, bag of tricks, halloween stuff...
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 07:51:28 PM
MisterLee:
Wow! Juanma really showed some heart! But like Cotto, another heir to the Puerto Rican thrown, they can both throw down some cotton feet dancing! He also displayed some Drunken Kung Fu! I coulda swore they slipped some vodka in his water bottle and some lead weights in his gloves to make them heavy and sluggish. All I can say is thank god for 12 round fights. If this were the 80's juanma would be another legendary nights story. Also, if Juan ma wants to be considered a pure boxer, he needs to learn how to jab and move, it seems his movement when he's boxing only consists of moving laterally, and throwing counter right hooks or left crosses, he doesn't jab to keep the guy off balance nor throw 1-2's... that's something Dawson does when he's in trouble and even Cotto. Mtagwa is a warrior, amazing. Granted I only saw the first few rounds and then rounds 10-12 b/c that's why everybody was talking about. A pure boxer jabs on the go, Juanma always feels that his power would bail him out, which is why he would go toe to toe even if he were hurt, and would rather wail away at hooks hoping for a knockout than sticking and moving and tying up and throwing combinations (not nec. to knockout but to score points and do slow Mtagwa down). Bhop oughta give him some clinching lessons. After seeing a vulnerable Juanma, bring on El Magnifico! Holler!
Monday Oct 12, 2009 12:24:10 AM
@ Anonymous user: :
Are you crazy? Go to youtube and watch the fight. Chavez beat the hell out of Taylor and they stopped the fight with like 3 seconds left. Taylor was winning the fight because he was throwing light 3-5 combination punchs. But, the punches Chavez were throwing were bombs and more effective, which is why Taylor slur his words now and was never the same after that fight.
Monday Oct 12, 2009 02:26:15 AM
Matthew:
I have not yet seen the Lopez-Mtagwa fight, but I will check it out as soon as it's available on YouTube. It sounds like it was an entertaining scrap. Remember, rematches typically are not as good as the first time around; the guy who wins the first time usually wins the rematch in more convincing fashion. In regards to previous comments and comparisons to Chavez-Taylor, yes Taylor sustained some pretty serious physical damage (broken orbital bone, cut inside mouth, severe dehydration), but he was miles ahead on the scorecard (I had him up by 5 points at the time of the stoppage). Chavez definitely landed the harder punches, but Taylor's punches weren't exactly pitty-pat punches. There were a few occasions where he actually moved Chavez back when he landed. It was a masterful display of boxing and ring generalship, if only he could have boxed more intelligently in the 12th. I also believe Richard Steele's stoppage was correct. It's too bad that Taylor was never the same after that night.
Monday Oct 12, 2009 08:17:35 AM
#1 PacFan "KO's Cotto in 7":
JuanMa was exposed by an opponent who many thought was an easy fight. I really think JuanMa must take the rematch and win decisively before he thinks about squaring off with Gamboa. Gamboa is much stronger opponent who loves to pressure lilke Mtagwa was successfully able to do. @Matthew, it's not always the case when a second match happens that the winner of the first fight is successful second time around. For example; Morales-Pacquiao 1, Pacquiao lost by UD and came back in the second fight to KO Morales. Marquez-Vasquez Trilogy-Marquez won the second and Vasquez won the second and third.
Monday Oct 12, 2009 09:10:21 AM
MisterLee @ Matthew:
It can be tru but it can also be the opposite. Bhop lost twice to JT, Mosley lost twice to winky and forrest (RIP), but Gatti beat ward twice after their first fight, so did vasquez win twice agst marquez after two fights. And all you businessmen , lawyers, promoters, writers, posters, 24/7'ers, lovers, and haters, how could you coddle and protect Juanma from a rematch? B/c juan ma did drunken style and never wants to do it again? Come on, does this mean andrade doen't deserve a rematch with Bute (who only had to get up from a knockdown to win the fight which he did), or if they were younger SRL vs TM 3, or marquez did better in the rematch agst pacquiao, i would site cotto but he doesn't do rematches! Every boxer had another boxer with his number on him. Mtagwa had it. Mtagwa as the PERFECT style for Juanma, he had a rock hard chin, he was a pressure fighter with dynamite in his fists, he never stopped moving forward, Juanma couldnt' depend on his power nor combination punching to bail him out, he had will over skill. It's a classic matchup, and are you guys telling me that a fight like this couldn't pack MSG or some vegas event, at least a co-event? i'd watch the rematch, say 2-3 fights down the road after both have had some padding in between to build the drama. Juanma couldn't break him down and that was difference compared to other oppoennts who would have crumbled much earlier. Give the man a rematch, if this is FOY candidate, what would be next? Holler!
Monday Oct 12, 2009 09:15:11 AM
Anony:
I ALSO BELIEVE JUANMA WILL WIN A REMATCH... since he just need to look at the tape and correct a few things. I will feela little stupid when he notice he abandoned the jab and got hit by a right hand he could have blocked with his glove. I really don't get it. He fought the perfect fight against Penalosa and this one he didn't look as good. I guess it was Mtagwa's awkward style. But this is good to happen early in his career, just like Cotto. I still remember when Cotto got hurt by Corley and then Ricardo Torres. That's why I'm asking if the weight might play a roll here. Cotto got up in weight and have managed to improve his chin a lot. Will that happen to Juanma if he moves up. I mean, that 11 and 12 round proves he was plainly exhausted, it wasn't that he was just buzzed.
Monday Oct 12, 2009 09:29:35 AM
MisterLee:
Apollo: "There ain't gonna be no rematch..."
Monday Oct 12, 2009 09:48:39 AM
Isaiah:
Wow! I didn't see this fight, but it sounds like a rematch should happen. I really didn't think Juanma would struggle so greatly. I guess it was just the wrong guy.
Monday Oct 12, 2009 10:11:35 AM
Matthew:
I realize that not every rematch goes according to that script. Yes, there are exceptions, but more often than not, the fighter who wins the first fight wins the rematch more convincingly. In the case of a trilogy, the guy who won the rematch wins the third fight more often than he loses. Again, there are exceptions to this as well (Bowe-Holyfield and Pazienza-Haugen come to mind). In fact, I believe either Fernandez or Lotierzo wrote an article about this topic earlier this year. I'm about to watch the Lopez-Mtagwa fight on YouTube, and if it's as good as I hear, I'll be among those clamoring for a rematch.
Monday Oct 12, 2009 10:41:47 AM
b-roc:
mtagwa should get a rematch...he was robbed and everyone knows it...did he take a beating? hell yeah he did...but he dished one out too--enough to make juanma's supporters scared by the middle of the fight----and turn this guy into a fan! juanma was out on his feet in the 11th and 12th, stumblin to the ropes, tryin to tie mtagwa up...yeah thats part of the game but should have been stopped...thats the business too---promoters have to protect their "boys"...Way to ruin a great nite of fights with this garbage decision!
Monday Oct 12, 2009 03:33:02 PM
MisterLee:
Man, this fight is a crock... so far having seen arounds 1-4 and rounds 11 & 12, i see a few things.... if Juanma can't depend on his power, pressure fighting, or high volume offensive combination punching he's got nothing, he doesn't know how to box or clinch. From middle of round 3 and up he's just been cotton feet dancing, moving laterally "pretending" to box, but really when he moves off the ropes and away he moves to the opposite corner of the ring to buy time, then he doesn't jab, he doesn't set up counters all the time, he doesn't clinch, and when push comes to shove he throws defense out the window and wings shots hoping his power would save him. I'm sorry, from my point of view, he's ortiz meeting maidana, cotto meeting margarito, and forrest meeting mayorga, someone who met someone tough enough to dish out what you got, has enough will to overcome skill and being broken down, power in both hands, and hungry enough to never stop coming at you. These will fighters can break down more skillful champions, especially if they take them down this deep dark place they dont' want to be. The skill fighters need to find the heart that really helps them come thru, and honestly juanma got lucky. Mtagwa opened him up in a way that maidana did and finished the job. I feel from round 3 and up it is all Mtagwa, just eating shots to knock juanma around. Never thought i'd see juanma do the cotton feet, he should get some boxing lessons from penalosa, he at least knew how to fight defensively and strategically. Juanma is not the complete package,at least not yet, he wasn't able to do a cotto torres, have his power carry him thru. AIght, holler!
Monday Oct 12, 2009 09:33:07 PM
MisterLee watches round 6:
Wow, Juan ma, truly has the feel of cotton, "the fabric of our lives" in his soul, i mean sole fo' certain! If he wants a shirt, just needs to sew some of the stuff from his shoes. He's got a little of that abraham fight, just tired of miranda, get this fight over with already! holler!
Monday Oct 12, 2009 10:23:38 PM
MisterLee:
Juanma vs. Usain Bolt anybody? :)
Monday Oct 12, 2009 10:24:24 PM
MisterLee round 8:
Wow! like barrera vs morales! I take that back!
Monday Oct 12, 2009 10:35:09 PM
Saul:
MAN! if that was any other fighter that fight would have been stopped, but because it was Lopez on a Top Rank card it was not. What happened to protecting the fighter? Juanma was out and I saw 2 instances where the fight should have been stopped. This reminds me of the Bute-Andrate fight where Bute was all but out, but because he was the hometown fighter, they let it go on and even gave him time to recover he got a decision. Lopez was the hometown fighter here. Immediate rematch boys, IMMEDIATE!!!!
Monday Oct 12, 2009 10:52:35 PM
Saul:
MisterLee, you got this one down brother!! I agree with you 100%
Monday Oct 12, 2009 10:54:31 PM
MisterLee:
Wow, you know you're getting beat up when Mtagwa is countering YOUR counters, or is using better head movement and defense than yourself. All the big shots that Lontchi was throwing are now being thrown by Mtagwa with more dynamite. Juanma is gonna have a hard time fighting at the elite level. Suddenly his power will only be effective when combined with boxing ability. This is something Cotto learned in coming up. Bring on Donaire, Vasquez, small Marquez, and Robert the Ghost. Holler!
Tuesday Oct 13, 2009 12:03:24 AM
Anony @ Mr. Lee and Saul:
The fight didn't get stopped because Mtagwa didn't do a definitive stoppage neither a clear knockdown. Juanma was just plainly exhausted to keep on his feet as he was holding or just getting out of the way of some punches but Mtagwa didn't "dominate" him with one definitive punch or put him in 'clear danger' so the referee didn't have to make a definitive call of "no more fight'. There's a difference on that. SPEEDBAG: Now all of the sudden everybody wants to fight Juanma thinking he can be subdued as easily as it appears when reality is that he only needs to make some adjustments and make sure the weight is not affecting him as it was affecting Cotto at this point of his career. Cotto has better chin now after he moved to welterweight. I will be careful or not be fool thinking Juanma is vulnerable because a trainer in a Freddy Roach's mentality will only see minor flaws to be corrected and then BUM!!!!! another Pacquiao will born out of Juanma. My personal impression is that this fight will only make him stronger and aware that he needs to improve and that Superman is as good as his last fight. God bless him.
Tuesday Oct 13, 2009 08:12:34 AM
TheTruth:
JuanMA showed he has the Heart of a champion, all we have to do is look at recent prospects that were put in a similar situation, Linares, Luveano, and Ortiz either quit or got K.O.'ed... Lopez has Raw talent, that NEEDS to be developed and refined, as it's safe to say Lopez has fallen in LOVE with his Power, this fight should be used as a WAKE UP CALL! I saw Lopez trade WIDE shots with Mtawga? Why? Lopez NEEDS to go back to the basics: Jab, Lateral Movement, Hands High, Head Movement... That part of the game is MENTAL...his team NEEDS to recognize the issue @ hand and not blame it on other factors such as "Juanma had a problem making weight"...I wonder had he scored the 1st rd KO would that same be said?? I've said it before JuanMa is a future GREAT, and after seeing him go thru HELL with a fighter as tough as I've seen in some recent times, it's safe to say his grit and toughness matches and/or exceeds his skill set....with that being said, I DON'T EVER WANT TO SEE JUAN MA TAKE SHOTS LIKE HE DID IN THE LAST 3 RDS...I DO NOT KNOW HOW HE STOOD UP...HEART OF A CHAMPION!
Tuesday Oct 13, 2009 08:29:36 AM
Saul @ Anony:
Nah man, look at all those shots they let him take against the ropes at one point and he was obviously wobbled, i'm telling you, anybody else would have had the fight stopped on them. And how about Top Rank saying that HBO wouldn't buy the rematch? put it on yourselves like you did this one? how about that?
Tuesday Oct 13, 2009 09:17:52 AM
Anony @ Saul:
I understand your argument but I believe the referee needs to see at least a knockdown and do a a protection count before stopping a fight. That didn't happen. WHO CAN CONFIRM THIS? Maybe EM????
Tuesday Oct 13, 2009 09:41:55 AM
EM:
Am with Anony---and the part of me that simply desires the underdog to win wanted the fight stopped. Cotton could've pulled the trigger but in person, it looked like he did the right thing. A fighter with a bit more accuracy than Mtagwa would've done it. But then again, without his insane chin and mile wide heart, he would've been kayoed five rounds earlier. All in all, my fight of the year-------unless maybe Pacquiao/Cotto BLOWS ME AWAY.
Tuesday Oct 13, 2009 10:32:43 AM
RG --mapakumbabang PacManite nasa PI:
EM, don't hold your breath! "Pacquiao/Cotto" won't be blowing anyone away. OMG! You better get on your J-O-B! Do you know the chaos and dissappointments coming out of Camp Cotto? I'm the honorary journalist, you are the hardcore one. I know that you have some spies in Camp Cotto and some flies on the wall. Thirty days away and Cotto is still weighting around a 160. He is moving like a snell and is really agitated about his messed-up present life. I ain't the rumormonger, so my lips are sealed. As for PacMan, he's got that swagger and he is as sharp as a dagger. Holla!
Tuesday Oct 13, 2009 12:13:14 PM
Phoenix Guy:
This was a terrific night of fighting! Thanks Top Rank! Too bad that GBP is not making their cards as entertaining as this. I have nothing but respect for Oscar but on the promotion end, their cards for the most part SUCK! I will not even go anymore to live GBP fights. Kudos for Top Rank. Keep up the great job Bob and Carl. Thanks.
Tuesday Oct 13, 2009 12:24:40 PM
Patrick Simba:
Juan is a good fighter dont get me wrong however he has to prove that he can go extra mile and break hard core fighters! Bcse that night he couldn't. So whether you said Mtagwa is a dirty fighter or not he really showed a heart of a champ! Juanma was not prepared for 12 rounds as usual and that shows you that Mtagwa deserves a rematch! And if Juanma is a real champ why worry face the Music and prove the World wrong all these conversations proves that fans are thirsty of that rematch. So promoters do not go gainst power of the people we are ready to pay. Give us a rematch!!!
Saturday Nov 7, 2009 09:36:50 AM
Twenty three years later after they seconded Marvin Hagler and Ray Leonard in Las Vegas, Goody Petronelli and Angelo Dundee crossed paths again. This time, it was at Foxwoods. Photo/friend of TSS "The Iceman" John Scully reports there were only pleasantries exchanged. Goody didn't debate the split decision victory enjoyed by Leonard, which to this day Hagler disputes.
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