Do it again! We want a rematch! OK< it probably won't happen. It doesn't make sense, business-wise, but we can dream.
FIGHT OF THE YEAR! JuanMa Escapes With Win In NYC
By Michael Woods
Find me one person who thought that Saturday night’s Juan Manuel Lopez-Rogers Mtagwa pairing had fight of the year potential. Please, who amongst us thought 25-12-2 Mtagwa would do more than simply make it tough for the Puerto Rican being groomed as the successor to Miguel Cotto? Not I; but that doesn’t stop me from calling the JuanMa-Mtagwa bout the 2009 Fight of the Year.
WBO super bantamweight champion JuanMa, out on his feet for the end of the 11th and much of the 12th after being knocked down, managed to stay on his feet, and came away with a unanimous decision, by scores of 115-113, 114-113, 116-111. TSS agreed with the decision, even if many fans in the theater at Madison Square Garden in New York booed with gusto. The card was titled “Island Warriors-Latin Fury 12” and ran on pay-per-view. Hopefully, promoter Top Rank will make it available on HBO, Showtime or ESPN, or just YouTube, to let everyone check it out.
Mtagwa said after he thought he won, and said he’d like a rematch. “The referee missed three knockdown,” said JuanMa’s promoter Bob Arum, who believed his man deserved a wider margin on the cards.
In the first, JuanMa(from PR; 121 pounds; 27-0) scored a knockdown with his first punch, which had Mtagwa’s glove touch the mat, but it wasn’t called. It was a right hook, with an added ¼ shove. The lefty showed heavy hands and accuracy, and movement, and composure, in the first minute. A right then put Mtagwa (born in Tanzania; 121 pounds; lives in Philly; now 25-13-2) down, but again, the ref didn’t see fit to call a knockdown. In the second, JuanMa’s fast, accurate blasts kept Mtagwa off balance. The overmatched foe tried to score with overhand rights, and at the end of the round, woke up JuanMa with a sweeping left hook. In the third, the right hand worked for Mtagwa, though he paid dearly for getting off. He opened a nick on JuanMa’s left eye, and one could see what Russell Peltz was telling us last week about the challenger’s heart. Mtagwa’s right scuffed up JuanMa a tad, it was noted.
In the fourth, JuanMa’s right hook behind the ear kept on doing damage, but Mtagwa kept plodding ahead. He ate sharp punches but stayed in JuanMa’s grill, making the Puerto Rican work 24-7. In round five, a right hook sent Mtagwa down, and it was correctly scored a knockdown. JuanMa does give a little push-off to finish his hooks, so I guess it can be hard to separate the punch from the push. Even with the knockdown, it was clear that Mtagwa wasn’t out of it, and was making the puncher-boxer JuanMa earn every penny of his purse. In the sixth, JuanMa did a better job sticking to boxing, as opposed to slugging with the bottomless pit of heart, Mtagwa.
In the seventh, Mtagwa let loose with nasty right hands, and he buzzed JuanMa midway through. He may have depleted his gas tank with so much movement in the prior round. The Tanzanian may well have taken the round on a card, even. In the eighth, JuanMa came forward more to start, trying to dictate pace. It worked but that tenacious Tanzanian was still bringing it to end the round. In the ninth, the crowd roared when Mtagwa landed a right hand. JuanMa was warned for a low blow, but of course, Mtagwa kept winging. JuanMa complained of a head clash. They warred to end the round, and the crowd was transfixed. In the tenth, JuanMa complained of a low blow. Was he getting frustrated? Mtagwa, like out of a zombie flick, kept on coming on. He ate shots, was staggered slightly, but refused to cave. Meanwhile, JuanMa stayed composed, and for the most part, on message. A right to the body and left hook buzzed JuanMa, but he too showed stellar heart. Left hooks and a right hand JuanMa just about out on his feet, but the bell saved him.In the 12th round,JuanMa hit deck, but no knockdown was called, as he was down simply from exhaustion. He was good to go for about two minutes, but somehow stayed aloft, and exited the round. We’d go to the cards.
WBA featherweight champion Yuriorkis Gamboa (from Cuba, living in Florida; 124 ½ pounds; 16-0, 14 KOs) took out Panamanian Whyber Garcia (22-7; 124 ½ pounds) in the fourth round, after taking some time to get warmed up and sizing up his somewhat hesitant opponent. As usual, Yuri didn’t bother with the jab, preferring to bang with meaning when banging at all. Garcia’s hands looked to be in slo-mo compared to the Cuban, big time. In two, the smooth operator Gamboa played it patient, easy to do as Garcia mostly posed. In the third, Garcia was a bit more aggressive, as Gamboa was not. Was the Cuban looking to get rounds in? In the fourth, we learned. A right dropped Garcia. Gamboa closed the show, via TKO,after Garcia arose, jumping on him and swarming him with everything in his arsenal. Ref Steve Smoger interceded and pulled the plug, at :58. Garcia gave less than one would’ve hoped, and if I paid money to see this card, I would’ve liked Gamboa to be in tougher.
Odlanier Solis (15-0, 11 KOs; from Cuba, living in Florida; 271 pounds, about 20 pounds over his usual weight) ran over late sub Monte Barrett (37-8; from Queens, NY; 218 pounds). Barrett, who subbed in after Kevin Johnson and Fres Oquendo walked, played the boxer, and he stayed mobile, knowing Solis would have a power edge. “Run and gun,” trainer Tommy Brooks yelled to Barrett. Solis was the busier and more effective man in the first. One wondered if Barrett’s legs were as sturdy as we’d seen before, or if at 38, he was right close to the tale end of his career. Barrett got dropped by a long left hook, and was up at eight in the second. He went down again, it was called a push, but he couldn’t tie up big Solis, or weather the rain. He hit the deck again, after being clubbed repeatedly, and the ref Wayne Kelly waved his arms to signal a finish. The time of the ending was 1:54 of two, via TKO.
Is Barrett done? He’ll have to strongly consider that option, one would think. Is Solis a prospect? Absolutely; though bloated, he has above average power, and fights in a calm way, with professional intensity. The eating habits, we’ll have to see on that…
Carlos Nasciemento (154 pounds; from Brazil; 24-2) came in with an inflated record, and Pawel Wolak (155 ½ pounds; from Poland, living in NJ; 25-1) showed all in attendance that the resume and record were misleading. With an in-your-face fury, Wolak worked Carlos over, and was rewarded with a TKO win after five completed rounds. After two knockdowns, one official, and with his red trunks that much redder from his own blood, reason prevailed and the ring doc told the ref No Mas for Carlos. Wolak had won three straight after a 2008 loss to Ishe Smith; Carlos’ sole loss came to current WBO 154 pound titlist Sergiy Dzinziruk in 2007, but most of his wins came against suspect hitters in Brazil and Mexico. Wolak hurt Carlos with a right cross, soon after a gash appeared over the Brazilians’ right eye in round one. Carlos’ corner gave him the business, because he came out winging, less willing to let the Pole dictate terms in the second. The fighters were glued to each other for much of the time, both squared up, cracking. Wolak seemed to have the power edge, if the sound effects from his throws were to be a measuring stick. Carlos went down, but it was called a push late in the fourth. Wolak pinned him on the ropes, and was thisclose to getting a stop. Would Carlos’ corner or the doc let him come out for five? Danny Milano couldn’t stop the cut, and though Carlos came out energized, Wolak was back to business. He scored a knockdown, which looked like a push. Points to Carlos for making it out of the round. The ref David Fields came to Carlos’ corner after the round, and on the advice of the doctor, stopped the bout.
John Duddy (161 pounds; ranked No. 10 by WBO; from Derry, Ireland, now living in NY; now 27-1) took a UD-8 from Michi Munoz (160 pounds; from Mexico, living in Kansas; now 21-4), by scores of 80-73, 79-73, 79-73. You had to notice right away that the legions of amped admirers who used to follow Duddy have somewhat drifted away; it felt like maybe 30% of the people in the building were there to see the Derryman. In the first, Duddy worked the jab, and had Munoz backing up. Heate a few hooks, and his nose was bloodied by the underdog. The blood still dripped to start round two. A right uppercut snapped Munoz’ head back, but the Kansan didn’t drop. In the fourth, Munoz dropped in a combo which psyched up his corner, but didn’t seem to faze the Irishman. Duddy was in total control through four, in a comfortable but not overwhelming outing. The fight progressed the same way in following rounds, with the barrel-bodied Munoz landing the occasional launch, but for the most part taking two for every one he hit with. Munoz looked like he was deteriorating some in the seventh; his reflexes diminished somewhat and Duddy landed cleaner than before. In the eighth round, Duddy moved more, choosing not to press for a stoppage, but he did eat a clean right, and Munoz tried to press more fiercely. He didn’t have the gas, though, and Duddy ran out the clock, save for a final trade at the bell. The judges spoke and there was zero drama that they’d bungle the obvious call.
Cuban/Miamian Yan Barthelemy (listed as 29-years-old) went at it with Jorge Diaz, a slickee from NJ. They traded, and the crowd dug it. The lefty defector swings wide, and ate a left hook, which put him down and out in the final round. He laid and stayed on the canvas, and the ring doc evaluated him earnestly, checking his pupils for severe damage. Bart, who arose after a few minutes, dropped to 8-2, and the winner Diaz is now 10-0, with 6 KOs. The end came at 1:06 of the sixth.
Omar Chavez went to 18-0-1 with a win over New Yorker James Ventry. Julio’s youngest son has an even steeper ride to the top than does his brother Junior. He wasn’t life and death with 7-10 Gentry, but not as much one might think. The judges saw the junior welter bout 58-55, 58-55, 59-54.
Light heavyweight Carlos Negron (from PR; 5-0) showed some skills and potential with a UD win over Larry Pryor (from Texas; 4-5). Pryor has an iron beard. Guy ate a ton up top and to the body and hung tough. He definitely earned his wage.
Michael Torres of Yonkers tasted loss for the first time, at the hands of Martin Tucker (from Ohio; 7-4). The judges scored it 57-56, times three, I the lightweight scrap which kicked off the card.
OUCCCHHH... I almost $hi* bricks on this one. Juanma got too overwelmed fighting at the Madison Square Garden.
Saturday Oct 10, 2009 10:05:10 PM
donputo69 in Fajardo:
I have 2 words to say....HOLY $#!T.....I must agree....this is so far FOY....lets give props to Mtagwa....the dude came to fight....much props to him....now....about juanma.....let me be the first to say this....THE GUY HAS A DYNAMITE CHIN....other boxers would of been ko'd with bombs like that....But this was juanma biggest test so far in his career....and he passed....plus he has alot of heart and cojones....that was a great learning experience for juanma.....holla back!!!
Saturday Oct 10, 2009 10:16:12 PM
donputo69 in Fajardo:
BTW....memo to all champs fighting at the WAMU theater in MSG....never....and i mean NEVER, look ahead of the guy you are boxing....mosley vs the late forrest....forrest win.....zab vs baldomir.....baldomir win.....and juanma barely escaped the theater with a win....so for all you boxers fighting at the theater?....go in there with your A game.....never look ahead.....holla back!!!
Saturday Oct 10, 2009 10:21:54 PM
CUBA!!!:
"JUANMA" doesn't want to see GAMBOA in the ring. It's suicide. I don;t know how Juan pulled out the win tin this fight, but by the skin of his teeth.
Saturday Oct 10, 2009 10:39:16 PM
Fistic Fury:
I haven't seen the fight yet being here in the UK but I will because Juanma is one of my favourite fighters and this sounds like a war. Man what is it this weekend, first Linares is destroyed now Juanma almost loses, these underdogs need to do their job and lose without a wimper. Haha.....
Saturday Oct 10, 2009 10:44:39 PM
Fe'Roz :
You're being too generous to Juanma. He was one punch away from being knocked out by a pressure fighting wild-punching journey man; a journeyman with as many losses as he has KO's. Not a KO puncher. Juanma allowed himself to get hit repeatedly by wide (and now I am being generous) right hands all night. Honestly, he's a great looking kid but he was One punch away from losing Bob Arum a whole lot of money. One Punch!! As he stumbled around a ring for as long or longer than any fighter I can remember seeing stars, Arum and Puerto Rico saw stars falling. I know I did. I mean he was out...O-U-T on his feet. Arum looked whiter than a sheet. He mumbled about Juanma next fights ...but we all know that whatever his plans were....they have changed. His fighter is very vulnerable. His power did not stop a Philly pressure fighter. Nor did his defense serve him. Shot after shot landed...from as far away as Tanzania. The fight became a race to see if Juanma's superior skills and serious power shots got to Mtagwe.....or, if as happened, they failed to stop him. Once they did not, Juanma's race was with the clock. And he barely barely beat it. Wow !!!
Saturday Oct 10, 2009 10:45:05 PM
Fe'Roz :
As for Gamboa, he tamed his early wildness with a more patient first round. He is still a bit wild. At his height he seems to feel a need...and maybe he's right....to jump in wildly on occasion. But man is he fast. Once he puts his punches together....it's lights out. He is in and done. Next!
Saturday Oct 10, 2009 10:48:56 PM
the Roast:
WOW!! Now I'm really sorry I kept my forty bucks in my pocket! I thought Mtagwa had no chance in hell!
Saturday Oct 10, 2009 10:50:11 PM
riverside:
i saw the fight, bring own juanma to izzy vazquez or rafa marquez, pueto rico vs mexico, more than ever, the fight will happen, the mexican boxers will expose the great young juanma, juama got power and will early but only the strong survive, and he barely did tonight, mtawa or something like that has a dozen losses, a dozen........................
Saturday Oct 10, 2009 10:54:29 PM
Fe'Roz :
I was thinking exactly that after Gamboa won. I said why did I pay to see these set up fights. And then, Holier than Holy. Fireworks......!! That is why I love love love the hurt business.
Saturday Oct 10, 2009 10:59:59 PM
riverside:
micheal woods well said, mookie won the fight and so did mtagwa, rematch why?maybe down the line says promoters not now................
Saturday Oct 10, 2009 11:36:51 PM
Fe'Roz :
There was one man tonight who came from Panama to watch the fight who has had a lot say.....and left disappointed. Cellestino Caballero, JML's shadow, the man who has been calling Juanma's name, came to the Garden and left without even hearing his own. Arum never mentioned it. Not after what he saw tonight. Expect Juanma's team to go back to the drawing board and give him time to absorb this fight. Protect him, in other words. From himself mostly. He fought the fight he wanted to fight....NOT the one his corner was telling him to. He abandoned his jab early and paid dearly. Caballero is not the only one who saw real vulnerability. We all did
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 12:03:37 AM
Fistic Fury:
I have a really good feeling about Solis. I've said it from day one of his career, look at the amateur career he had. Look at it this way, David Haye smashed Monte Barrett in 5 rounds and everyone was raving about him (rightly so to an extent) Now Solis does him inside 2, very promising. Every time i've seen him although he looks disinterested and plodding sometimes he just oozes class, future world champ for me. Also the heavyweight division could be taking a turn for the better with Vitali, Wladamir, Solis, Haye, Povetkin and to a lesser extent Johnson, Toney, Arreola and afew promising up and comers. Not many divisions have that many but hey i'm an optimist...
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 01:42:56 AM
MisterLee:
I guess finally some vulnerability. I was never a fan of Juanma in the first place b/c he had only shown offense, and being a penalosa fan, i thought penalosa fought decent fight, but was outmatched in size and power. And as somone (was it fe'roz or the roast) pointed out in the fight agst lontchi, he got hit too much , and lucky the guy didn't have KO power. We'll see in the future, juanma has not won me over yet. pc!
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 02:09:06 AM
hector:
Fact: Mtagwa is the type of fighter that can make ANYONE look very bad when he comes prepared to fight regardless of his record. Fact: I doubt that any champion's manager will put up his man against someone like Mtagwa when his champion has much to lose and nothing to win. Juanma has grown today and has nothing to regret, he fought like the champion he is and only look at the punches numbers if you have any doubt concerning his win. Fact, we must demand from the commission to rate the referees in championship fights. Tonight 's third man in the ring left much to be desired...Congratulations CHAMPION...
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 02:15:58 AM
dp69 @riverside:
by the way you talking it sounds like u hating on juanma....this is good that it happened yesterday to him instead of happening down the road....and you talk about mtagwa's record?....i think sometimes records are overrated...good example is cesar chavez jr....what it is?...41-0?.....41 parking attendants?....seriously....another example....glenn johnson....when he fought jones, he had 9....yep...9 loses.....and what he did?....KTFO of jones.....so records sometimes dont mean ____.you can fillout the blank....and trust me...juanma's next fight is gonna be against caballero....and if caballero think hes gonna have it easy with juanma, HA.....think again.....holla back!!!
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 07:30:46 AM
kountedout:
caballero will win against juanma. friend jeff mayweather is now working with caballero. celestine already has the mentality to win. he wants to fight juanma
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 08:01:00 AM
Fe'Roz:
Mister Lee, I did write that Juanma was getting hit way too often by Longchi. Frankly, it surprised me but I wrote it off to his having no fear of Longchi's power....or should I say non-existent power. Last night, to the horror of all his fans, he was getting tagged early and often by wide/wild looping right hands. And this time he got marked up. As his best punches failed to stop Mtagwe, he made some nice adjustments and thankfully for him
Mtagwe is is one dimensional. He just absorbs and keeps coming. Nightmares of Margarito began to flash thru Juanma's mind I suspect. Except Mtagwe is more like a lesser Mayorga with Clotteys chin. In fact, he looked unmarked. The point here however is that Juanma is a left chin waiting to get hit again and again....unless he tightens his D fast. I have to imagine even his most ardent fans are thinking the same. Don? Pc
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 08:14:56 AM
riverside@donputo:
hey don no hard feelings, i'm i boxing fan, mexico and puerto rico have always had good boxing rivalry's, id paid on any day to watch cotto box and i never would to watch chavez jr, chavez jr is bum, id like to see lopez fight vasquez, because that is what lopez is looking for, records your right, vazquez barely beat a guy who had six striaght loses before last night, vasquez might be shot, any fighter who fight like juanma is going to be a fan favorite, we like to see al the offence, last night a was rooting for the underdog mtagwa, never heard of this guy, i'm a boxing fan not juanma hater.........
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 10:10:06 AM
donputo69 @riverside:
no doubt riverside...i respect your comment....but at first i though u was kind of hatin on juanma....juanma is only gonna get better...he already showed the world that he has a solid chin....thats number one....number two, he has alot of hesrt...any other boxer would of have taken a knee....but dont get me wrong....juanma needs to step up his D....not too much, but just a lil bit more....as for gamboa?....wow...im starting to become a fan...i really like this kid....the mother_____. is fast....but his chin worries me a little...other than that, he should be alright...bring it on....JUANMA VS GAMBOA.....but juanma needs to shut that overrated bum caballro up....ASAP....holla back!!!
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 10:59:14 AM
brownsugar:
WHOOO HOOOO.... WHAT A FIGHT!!!! I got the fight late,.. and missed all the fights before Juanma ...... BUT I GOT MY MONEY'S WORTH !!!!!!!,.. that one fight was worth a whole card of fights,... But somebody tell me what happened to Juanma??,.. after watching him destroy challengers with ease,.. he goes into the fight, slugging like a novice and barely survived,.. never saw Juan fight like that,... usually he's much more disciplined, skillful and accurate,.. .. Juanma will get shredded by Gamboa if he boxes like that against the speedy Cuban,.. I had once thought Juanma would have easily destroyed Caballero,.. but I'm not so sure now,.. anyway,.. kid has great heart and competitive spirit,.. and put on a crazy, wild show,.. I nearly lost my voice rooting for Juanma to put the game Philadelphian down,.. by the way Mtagwa has way more guts and determination than he has skill,..but I think Juanma would box him silly in a rematch..(but he'd better not take any chances,.. dude dude is good a using the bull-rush headbutt technique) ALSO WHY WAS THE REF ignoring all the dirty fighting,... ( the very excited and hyped up Mtagwa was hitting low,.. rushing in head first,.. hitting behind the head,... and consitantly hitting on or after the bell),.... ref Cotton never acknowleged the dirty fighting or warned Mtagwa between rounds,.. he did a very poor and unprofessional job in my opinion...
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 12:16:53 PM
Fe'Roz :
There are a lot of answered ...and unanswered ...questions after last night. One question never to be asked again, Juanma has huge heart. Any lesser man would have taken a knee....or worse. Second question is his conditioning. again, anything less and he would have lost. Full Stop. He drew on a reservoir of training and conditioning and kept his head. But it is what was in his head that bothers/troubles me. Why was he not listening to his corner and using his jab. Had he, the fight would never have been close. But he made the Great Abandoner of the effective jab, Oscar De La Hoya, look like a downright machine gun in comparison. He needs to listen better....and use common sense. That I believe is the greatest lesson he will hopefully learn from last night. Then there is his chin. For all intents and purposes, I might agree that he has a good one, Don....except he was no in with a puncher of any note. Had he been....well, you tell me. That question is the one that will get asked again and again by Gamboa and/or any future fighter looking at Juanma. And by Arum. I don't think they will let us see Juanma fight a puncher anytime too soon. And that brings me to another related question: how much power does JML really have. He was hitting Mtagwa flush all night. It remains to be seen whether more elite fighters can walk Juanma down. So, now we have some answers. The man has strong offense, unquestionable heart , a strong chin, cojones, a hard head, a suspect D. There wiil however remain many questions still unanswered......pc
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 12:34:32 PM
Fe'Roz @ Brownsugar :
I think when you watch the tape you will see that both fighters were dirty throughout the fight. There were times that I was surprised that Cotton was not intervening.....and other times that his not doing so made the fight the fight it was. I mean this one had it all. Headbutts bordering on Elk rutting, low blows, back of head shots, late hits. That doesn't even begin to take into account the bad and missed calls on KD's/slips. Nevertheless, anyone that sees this one .....whether he/she be a casual or diehard fan..... will know and remember why we all love this game. What a fight!
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 12:55:29 PM
brownsugar:
well last night he threw 0% jabs,.. and fought like he was trying to force a KO,.. never happens that way... did he try to impress the crowd???,.. is the weight limit getting to him???,... for whatever reason,.. he didn't look like the old Juanma,.. this fight was scheduled to show off Juanma's skill and whet the publics' appetite for a clash with Gamboa (another Arum fighter),... I hope they don't call it off,.. I was going with Gamboa to beat Juanma before last night,.. and even more so now
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 01:04:12 PM
brownsugar@Fe'Roz:
Fe'Roz,.. I'd buy the dvd if I could... even Israel Vasquez,.. Matthew Saad,.. and Gatti would be proud of that performance...
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 01:06:51 PM
Fe'Roz @ Brownsugar :
Don't forget Diego Corrales.......may he rest in peace. I think everything you said played a factor last night. The crowd, the weight.....all of it. On the other hand, that is part of being a big name prize-fighter. The sad part of being a name of fame is that most of the real fight fans did not get to see this fight.....because fame, earned or not, has a big price. That price/cost is passed on to the buyer. Us. And not everyone can or will pay. Arum must be wondering himself how much more money he might have made....in the long run....had he let more people see these guys last night for free. Mister lee has made similar points on numerous occasions. If you watched, you will never say boxing is dead. If you can't watch (because of cost), you won't realize how alive it is. Juanma and Gamboa would have and /or will both benefit more.....with more eyeballs watching. It's fights (and stars) like these that make the future so bright. The more you see the more you like.
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 01:34:27 PM
DaveB:
I'm not convinced that Juanma would do so good against this guy in a rematch. Juanma punches just looked like they didn't have any affect on him. Mtagwa just kept coming the whole fight and never looked like he was seriously hurt. It looked like Rocky fighting Apollo Creed. A rematch isn't in the cards but if Juanma goes in against someone who can take his punch, and that seems to be happening more often lately, and someone who throws straighter punches with more puncher on them, Michael Buffer will be saying....And the new WBO super bantamweight champion of the world.....
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 02:21:37 PM
DaveB:
**with more power on them***
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 02:23:14 PM
brownsugar@Fe'Roz:
yeah,... Arums definitely bleeding a niche market,.. but wider access would bring in more interest,.. couldn't have said it better...
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 02:32:02 PM
brownsugar:
according to the latest news,.. .. Arum says Lopez had difficulty making weight and will move up to the next weightclass,.. Lopez will fight again in the PR,...possible opponents being champs Luevano or Rios,.. after that then a super fight can be made with Gamboa,.. Gamboa said why wait,.. he's ready now for Juanma or any fighter in the world who thinks they can beat him,.. but it looks like Lopez will get another "warmup" before the Gamboa bout can be made...
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 02:51:27 PM
hector:
I believe Juanma needs to establish himself comfortably in the heavier division before facing Gamboa. Gamboa wants the fight now because he fears a more seasoned and division established Juanma will become a very tough bone to chew. I would like to see Gamboa or any other high ranking boxers against last nights Mtagwa...difficult dirt...
Juanma showed a solid chin, enormous will and for a boxer used to finish early, a remarkable condition(do not forget how intense was this fight)...Juanma has all the tools to defeat Gamboa, just a little more experience in the heavier division...
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 05:34:11 PM
DaveB:
Brownsugar, the problem with moving up in weight is that if he is starting to have problems knocking people out at this weight it will only get worse when he moves up to fight bigger guys. On the one hand people can say he lost power struggling to make weight but with fighting bigger guys, they also take a bigger punch. He needs to tighten up his D because you can't knock out everyone quickly and when you move up in class those people tend to be able to take a better punch. And if they have good defense and a punch you end up getting knocked out.
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 05:59:49 PM
RG - Malakas at mabilis na ang mga kamay kay PacMan -- manalo siya, talaga:
Moving up by nature will not decrease JuanMa's power, but will increase it. He is filling out -- still growing. A person grows roughly until 28 years old, not 18 years old like mudhole thinkers and jabberwocky experts spit. Moving up by greed is what put a fighter in trouble to the bigger one. Many of the powerhouse trainers believe that "JuanMa is one dangerous, growing SOB." At featherweight, super featherweight and lightweight, this cat is going to be sending pugilists out on stretchers. Forget about counting. Just rush in the stretchers.That mutha is blessed and his can straight blast. Gaining weight will give him even more speed, snap, crackle, and double pop. With the right people behind him, dat sucka is go to the TOP. Holla!
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 06:47:50 PM
RG - malinas na iyan:
*and he can straight blast....
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 06:50:48 PM
DaveB:
Radam, That makes sense because if the can take enough power with him to take out bigger men than he is good to go. If he moves up we'll be able to see how that works out for him. I would still like to see him protect himself better, even if he gets back to the quick knockouts, because he seems to get hit too much.
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 07:41:19 PM
Fe'Roz :
His D is for all intents and purposes was porous at best. He himself said he couldn't establish a rhythm vs Mtagwe (fair enough) or figure out where his punches were coming from (also fair enough). Mtagwe is one of those awkward guys with a big heart and tough beard. But Juanma got hit by So Many wide punches on the left side of his head .....all night long. That is a problem. A big one. He was one punch ....one straight punch.....away from losing his title. And Mtagwe is a fighter who gets it done with accumulation of punches. In other words, not a big puncher. Juanma must tighten his D. Full Stop
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 08:47:00 PM
RG - manood ang ulan - PacManite na mababang-loob:
Ditto Fe'Roz! JuanMa needs a gymnastic-ballet type of crosstrainer. As of now, he is underusing his agility. And the reason is that he is a rarity for a Rican pugilist. Like they have done this with Cotto. Rican trainers usually turn all of their boxers into conventional pugilists. They despise southpaws. All the Rican southpaws who you will see is usually from New York, i.e., Hector "Macho Time" Camacho. JuanMa is even more rare, because he is a natural right hander. He should not be getting hit so easy on the left side. If he were spending out to his right, this would not be happening. And then he could easy hit the opponent with a blinding right jab or a check right hook followed by a left straight or left uppercut, depending on if the opponent stand straight up or lean downward. It is a myth that you can easily hit a southpaw with right straights and crosses. Opponents got murdered for right crossing on Hagler, Whitaker, Camacho, a primed Nunn and, of course, crossing on PacMan will make you kiss the canvas. Just asked the last seven boxers he knocked down or out for crossing on him. The truth is that a left jabber and a hooker are more of a challenge for a lefty. This is why Peepee-drinking-canvas-kissing Marquez found a bit of success against Manny. Any way! DaveB and you, Fe'Roz, are spot on. JuanMa needs to seriously get a trainer who can and will show him how easy it is for a fast boxing southpaw like JuanMa not to get hit. And to knock the dude out with that speed and awesome snap, crackle and superbad pop! Holla!
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 09:41:04 PM
Fe'Roz @ Radam:
I just watched it again to see if my posts immediately after the fight last night were influenced by emotion. They weren't. Juanma was a mess after Round 6/7. He completely abandoned his jab.....and by the the championship rounds he started punching like Mtagwa! In other words, like a Longshoreman.....not the skilled boxer we have come to expect. He not only wasn't spinning/moving to his right......he was squaring up! Any chance of that check right hook being followed by a straight left of uppercut (which given Mtagwa's head down style would have been deadly) went south immediately. I don't want to make too much out of one fight......although this one is a classic......but I think there is a serious issue being ignored/played down as to Juanma's ring smarts. As I said last night, his conditioning looked great and he seemed to be fully in control of his faculties....but man, did he fight a dumb fight or what? Talk to me. pc
Sunday Oct 11, 2009 10:16:06 PM
RG - Manny is swimming - He's be in excellent shape 2 kayo Miguel in rd 4 or less:
It was more like JuanMa's corner had him fighting a super dumb, dangerous fight. There was no good instruction given out to him. Just one step to his right, and the firing of that check hook would have been "goodnight Sweet Prince!" Remindful of how PacMan knocked down Ricky Hatton with a check right hook. And eventually Manny kayoed Ricky with blinding right followed by a left. JuanMa had easy picking that his corner made hard hunting. JuanMa's jab would have blinded the wild-swinging Mtagwa. If there is a rematch, JuanMa should kayo the guy in a couple of rounds. The bout was a shame on the cornership of JuanMa. No fighter at his level and condition should have been so blinded and dazed by his corner. Trust me, JuanMa was dazed more by his corner's lack of skills than by Mtagwa lack of skills. Holla!
Monday Oct 12, 2009 12:12:13 AM
Fe'Roz :
Trust me. I trust you. pc
Monday Oct 12, 2009 12:21:15 AM
brownsugar@DaveB:
Yeah Dave,.. that could be one of consequences of moving up,..or he could improve,... Arum is saying Juanma will definitely benefit from the extra pounds...sometimes a guy can stay in a division one fight too long...last night Juanma looked like a fighter who was running on fumes from round 3 to 12,.....
Monday Oct 12, 2009 01:08:20 AM
Anony:
THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE HAPPENED TO JUANMA: A) He was too much worried to play in the MSG and was desperate to look good. That put him out of focus. B) Then he got nervous when he noticed Mtagwa has the best chin he has ever tested. So, when he felt Mtagwa's punches he felt in a hurry to put him away first. (round 7-10). C) Mtagwa caught him with big punches and Juanma didn't expect that at all. So he got out of focus again. D) He didn't use the jab or hold when he had to hold or backpedal effectively so he missed important techniques to counter Mtagwa's offensive. That shows he had never done that before. Now he will learn. E) And this one is a question to other TSS readers.... Can it be that he needs to move up in weight to feel stronger in later rounds? Enough of 122lbs? Not making excuses because I'm proud of him but he needs to improve if he wants to fight Vazquez or Marquez for the big money. F) Finally.... This is the FOY for sure. It really wasn't made for cardiac people. That final round was taken out of Rocky I. I really got desperate counting the seconds to end and even with 8 seconds to go I was praying, hoping and scared. What a fight! Props to Mtagwa. He showed heart and determination.
Monday Oct 12, 2009 09:00:48 AM
Fe'Roz:
Anony, Everything you say makes sense and most if not all of these factors were in play. And we all appreciate your candor in analyzing one of your favorite fighters. It is....and I suspect you harbor some concerns.....that is equally possible that we may have over-estimated Juanma too early. Time will tell. But I think you'll agree that after that fight there are fighters out there much more willing if not downright anxious to get in there with him and test him soon. He showed a vulnerability that would certainly scare me if he were under my management. I mean when was the last time....or the first or only time....you can remember seeing a top fighter out on his feet for that long. I know he survived but damn...he could have been jusrtas easily KOed if Mtagwe had Froch's wherewithal. I will watch every fight of Juanma's. To see if he learns and adjusts. Or to see if he's been exposed as less than he's been promoted. The jury is out. Pc
Monday Oct 12, 2009 09:23:28 AM
brownsugar:
well said Anony,.. I think it was the pride,.. and the weight,..every time Juanma took a punch,..he wanted to show his opponent that he could hit even harder,...incredible action...
Monday Oct 12, 2009 09:26:07 AM
Matthew:
After seeing the fight, I will say that both fighters showed a lot of heart, and I also believe the decision was correct. It was an entertaining fight, but parts of it were really ugly. I'm not so sure I'd want to see a rematch. Lopez definitely showed some flaws. Maybe it was Mtagwa's awkward style, or maybe he was looking past this fight, but he definitely has some things to work on. He didn't jab enough, didn't really go to the body, doesn't really know how to clinch, and allowed himself to get lured into a sloppy brawl. Maybe it's similar to the way Vernon Forrest matched up poorly with Mayorga (both he and Lopez are usually technically sound boxers). He should use this as a learning experience and get back to the gym shortly. I really doubt Arum will have any interest in making a rematch.
Monday Oct 12, 2009 11:56:25 AM
Anony @ brownsugar @ Fe'Roz :
Yeah, there was a round were they exchanged like WWF wrestlers. LOL. They ate punches and give back for long seconds. @Fe'roz About your comment of "He showed a vulnerability that would certainly scare me if he were under my management.". That's why Bob Arum grabbed the mic and started offering Rojas and Luevano. The old fox really wants to take Juanma's career step by step. I guess Juanma should take it cool for two or three fights before facing Vazquez or Marquez. He should fight that guy Luevano and if he wins convincingly, then fight Caballero, then Gamboa, then Vazquez, in that order. NOTE: What do you guys make up of the fact that Vazquez almost loose his fight as well in the same night??? Maybe the stars weren't aligning on Saturday for for the two champions but they were certainly aligning for the Cubans boxers. They did a great job and I congratulate my paisanos.
Monday Oct 12, 2009 01:02:56 PM
brownsugar:
Vasquez won like he always does,.. on pure guts and determination,.. how many more times can he go to the well?? on a side note,.. Arum is trying to match Gamboa against Mtagwa,.. while Lopez will likely get Luevano or Rios in the PR in january,.. then Gamboa vs Lopez if like Anony says,.. Lopez gets a good win,... but Lopez definitely needs to move up in weight,.. Gamboa vs Mtagwa is a mixed bag,.. did Mtagwa get better from fighting Juanma??,.. or did he leave a piece of himself in the ring?? ...I think Gamboa would get him out of there quicker because he'll box instead of slug,... plus Mtagwa is coming off a war....
Monday Oct 12, 2009 01:44:10 PM
brownsugar:
Correction: Mtagwa vs Gamboa under serious consideration by Oner,.. not Arum...
Monday Oct 12, 2009 01:47:47 PM
donputo69 @ brownsugar:
If that's the case so then good for juanma...Gamboa will get ktfo, and juanma will ko mtagwa in the rematch...and we will never see gamboa vs juanma....that's just my opinion...holla back!!!
Monday Oct 12, 2009 03:16:56 PM
Fe'Roz:
I get Oner wanting to put Gamboa together with Mtagwe. Mtagwe does not have one punch KO power so he is not really that big a threat to summarily de-rail Gamboa's plans with a KO. The best scenario for him is that he looks great beating him fast....avoiding Juanma's mistakes. This would give him some bragging rights but more importantly further limelight and more negotiating power. The worst case(s) are that he looks as bad as Juanma.....or that he gets beat altogether. Not likely but hey, after Saturday night !?!
Monday Oct 12, 2009 03:29:23 PM
Reader:
Down goes another Puertorican fighter,bad decision.....
Monday Oct 12, 2009 08:07:11 PM
Fe'Roz :
EM,I know there are some here who would sooner forget Saturday night..... but there are many others clearly who have yet to see the fight. Many of our most articulate regulars among them. Judging by the number of posts both here on this thread.... and elsewhere on the web... it is clear that Bob Arum wildly misjudged the potential of his matches on Saturday. Had he any idea of the fight that ensued, he obviously would've considered ways to make it more available. Of course, that would've meant foreseeing the incredible match himself. What now looks to be a great majority of true fight fans did not get to see the fight. And that's a damn shame. so I'm asking.... when the fight is ultimately available either on TV or the Web..... and the rest of us have seen it, that you consider an article and thread allows us to discuss it together. for those who haven't seen the fight...... you are in for a treat. and I, among the fortunate who did, can't wait to hear from you. pc
Monday Oct 12, 2009 10:46:23 PM
brownsugar@donputo69:
well,.. if Juanma had simply used a jab,.. instead of making the fight "personal" he would have easily won an easy fight,.. and any top ten 122-126pounder would school Mtagwa if they didn't get lured into a brawl,.. Gamboa included... but it's clear that Juanma has weight issues,.. that's why Caballero wants to get him into the ring at 122 so bad,. Caballero has his sources like all fighters and knows exactly what the inside word on Juanma is,.. but back to the subject,.. after that war,. I'd be surprised if Mtagwa could go that hard again anytime soon...
Monday Oct 12, 2009 11:31:31 PM
anthony:
woods your article is the only one that captured what occured @msg saturday night that was for sure fight of year and will go down as one of the all time greats an instant classic at msg!Bravoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Tuesday Oct 13, 2009 04:46:54 AM
marlonious:
Better than Ortiz Vs Maidana???
Tuesday Oct 13, 2009 11:45:16 PM
Twenty three years later after they seconded Marvin Hagler and Ray Leonard in Las Vegas, Goody Petronelli and Angelo Dundee crossed paths again. This time, it was at Foxwoods. Photo/friend of TSS "The Iceman" John Scully reports there were only pleasantries exchanged. Goody didn't debate the split decision victory enjoyed by Leonard, which to this day Hagler disputes.