Arum swore that the timing of this press conference wasn't shady. Manny has visa time contraints, the promoter said. OK, Bob. Still--bragging rights on this megafights are up for grabs--and the winner will be determined mostly by PPV buys.
No Drinking Of Strange Yellow Substances At Yankee Stadium
By George Kimball
NEW YORK --- The megafight between Manny Pacquiao and Miguel Cotto is more than two months away, so even though it was advertised as a "press conference," we had no anticipation that Thursday's affair at Yankee Stadium would produce anything that might be construed as newsworthy.
Rather, we found ourselves drawn to the House that George Built (with a little help from New York taxpayers) out of curiosity over the timing of the event.
Promoter Bob Arum has shown himself to be a pretty shrewd marketing guy over he years, so you had to wonder why he'd be kicking off a five-city press tour (one that includes three major league ballparks) literally days before Floyd Mayweather and Juan Manuel Marquez take to the ring in this fall's other big pay-per-view extravaganza.
We don't know about you, but we've found it difficult to get all that excited about Mayweather-Marquez. The whole idea seems so cynically contrived -- a guy who hasn't fought in 21 months against an opponent who's fighting almost ten pounds above anything he's ever weighed before -- that it strikes us as barely one step removed from Oscar vs. Shaq. And ABC didn't ask anybody to pay $50 a pop to watch Oscar vs. Shaq.
Cotto-Pacquiao, on the other hand, is a real fight, for a bona fide title, and while we've watched Manny slay way too many giants to go picking against him, neither would we be shocked by a Cotto win.
Judging from the early returns, the public seems to agree. This is not to say Mayweather-Marquez is going to lay a big fat egg, but neither does it appear destined to become the box-office smash its promoters anticipated when they put it together. That's why you can barely turn on your television set of late without being subjected to a 24/7 bombardment of 24/7 and 24/7 reruns. The only surprise is that Golden Boy hasn't roped Court TV into the process by getting them to run weekly installments of Mayweather Family arraignments.
So you had to wonder why Arum, knowing that he had the whip hand, would stir things up by dispatching Pacquiao and Cotto around the country now, unleashing a process that could only call attention to the Sept. 19 fight by initiating comparisons. When you have the superior product, after all, isn't the more sensible approach to simply ignore the competition?
Then, of course, there was the added fact that this was another one of those "public" press conferences, a media event in which the media is literally the last consideration. Not only did the publicists pull out all the stops in an effort to produce a backdrop of screaming, fist-pumping fans by inviting them to occupy, for free, what are normally $350 seats, but irresponsibly encouraged New York Public School pupils to skip classes for the day to do join the throng.
You might say Top Rank looked as if they were trying to out-Golden Boy Golden Boy with this one, but the truth of the matter is that Oscar De La Hoya -- the guy who pioneered "public" press conferences at the Empire State Building and the Statue of Liberty -- learned this stuff at the feet of the master. Arum invented these things back when he was the promoter and the Golden Boy was a fighter, and the announcement of each new De La Hoya fight could routinely expect to draw hundreds and sometimes thousands of shrieking teenage girls, some of whom could be counted upon to shower the shyly grinning Oscar with their freshly-removed undergarments.
These demonstrations were supposed to convey the impression that De La Hoya's popularity transcended the sport itself, but the schtick did appear to have been stage-managed. Boxing writers never actually caught Top Rank publicists in the act of handing out training bras back in those days, but the alleged spontaneity of the lingerie-tossing was none too convincing.
Arum, of course, had promoted the last boxing event to take place at the old Yankee Stadium -- the 1976 third fight between Muhammad Ali and Ken Norton -- and makes no secret of his desire to be the guy who promotes the first in the new incarnation. (Pacquiao-Mayweather I, anyone?)
But one couldn't help wondering about the wisdom of throwing the gates open and inviting partisans of both fighters to jointly occupy seats above the first base line, not to mention announcing the event with a press release headline;
YANKEE STADIUM TO LAUNCH PACQUIAO-COTTO MEDIA TOUR!
FANS URGED TO PLAY HOOKEY AND ATTEND
FREE PUBLIC PRESS CONFERENCE
The first paragraph also included the notation "Truant Officers will be banned."
Hadn't these people ever seen the literacy figures for New York schools? (And, judging from their correspondence, some boxing fans seem particularly afflicted.)
Bob Arum seemed genuinely surprised that Thursday's gathering had been touted with a "skip school" message.
"It said what?" asked he incredulous promoter.
Assured that the announcement specifically included the "play hookey" line, Arum shook his head.
"They shouldn't have done that," he muttered.
And as it turned out, the promoter himself questioned the wisdom of taking Pacquiao and Cotto on the road this week. He'd have preferred to wait until after Mayweather and Marquez have concluded their business.
"The problem is," explained Arum, "there's a limit to how long we can keep Pacquiao in the country on his present visa, so that forced us to do the tour now."
Cotto and Pacquiao were trotted out in matching Yankee pinstripes, and each had been assigned a jersey numbered 09 -- close, but not precisely matching Roger Maris' retired number 9.
Judging from the response of the crowd at the Stadium Thursday, the truants appeared to be equally divided in their loyalties. That will not be the case on the second stop on the "Fire Power" tour, which takes place Saturday at the Centro de Bellas Artes de Caguas in Cotto's home town.
From there it's on to AT&T Park in San Francisco (Monday), Beverly Hills (Tuesday) and San Diego's PETCO Park on Wednesday. (By the purest of coincidences, Mayweather and Marquez are also scheduled to be in L.A. this weekend.)
When the World Boxing Council announced the establishment of its "Diamond Belt" this past summer, it was immediately and widely assumed that the title was being created to confer some sort of legitimacy on Mayweather-Pacquiao, but in what must be considered a major coup, the WBC then revealed that its first diamond belt would go the "Fire Power" winner, even though Los Bandidos already have a welterweight champion, and Cotto-Pacquiao is a WBO title fight.
Transportation of the bling was entrusted to the WBC's Prince Regent, Mauricio Sulaiman, who personally brought it to New York for Thursday's show-and-tell session at Yankee Stadium. Although it is similar in design to the traditional WBC green plastic belt, the plaque fronting the super-version is made of 18-carat gold, and contains "598 diamonds, 196 emeralds, six rubies, and 150 Swarovski semi-precious stones."
That's how many it had when it left Mexico City, anyway.
in touch:
It doesn't matter how it's promoted. Pac vs Cotto spells drama. Mayweather vs. Marquez spells melodrama. Therein lies all the difference.
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 06:43:29 PM
Radam G, a most humble PacManite in view:
I gotta to get one of those WBC Diamond belts. It is Pinoy Time! Holla!
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 07:07:58 PM
Anony:
OH, OH... Definetly Oscar de la Hoya look much bigger than Cotto on the photo. Not a good sign. If Pacquiao bulks up in muscle, then it will be a hard fight for real. Time will tell. Long time until the fight.
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 07:22:26 PM
MisterLee:
Never thought I'd see those two squaring off agst each other in a photo. Its like reality hit me, tho i knew this fight was coming. Awesome! Kimball Slice! Tell it like how it is! Enough of pple getting dragged into the "intrigue" of a glorified tune-up fight, no offense to Marquez. IF and only if marquez wins, will he "shake up the world." I have my monopoly money on Mayweather by 8th round TKO, or UD. Holler!
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 07:27:30 PM
Anony:
The belt only only comes for worthy champions... not for forgotten amateurs.
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 07:28:13 PM
Dawn:
worthless... it's a shame manny is going to get destroyed by miguel cotto because he's only fighting weak opposition since marquez, marquez has better chances of winning against mayweather because unlike manny, he's only been fighting the best in the weight classes he's fought in... Something manny should learn to do
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 07:56:43 PM
donputo69 loving that pic:
wow...love that pic....pacpac looks like a lil boy next to cotto....i feel bad for pacpac...he's gonna get his a$$ whooped on nov.14...@anony....size doesnt matter....pacpac can bulk up all he wants....cotto is gonna work that body till pacpac says the famous 2 words...NO MAS....im still picking cotto to KO pacpac in 10 rounds....after the fight, cotto would finally man up and tell bob arum to bing him scareweather....arum will call scareweather via telephone, but scareweather wont answer his call.....sounds familiar guys?.....lol.....holla back!!!
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 08:36:05 PM
#1 PacFan 11-1-1 in "09:
This is a no brainer! Pac-Cotto will definitely top the Mayweather-Marquez fight! I never would've thought that this two were going to square off in their careers. Hats off to both of these two warriors! Two of my favorite fighters in the sport and it's too bad I have to pick a winner. It's either going to be a very exciting twelve rounds or mid-round stoppage so I'm going with my boy Pac in 7. @Don, come on don't look at Pac like that. No Mas? He has always gone out on his shield and never quits. Atleast he don't take knees....ooohh that one hurt didn't? Just playin homie, sh*t if I was getting hit by bricks I would be on my knees too. Enjoy the fight and make sure you don't miss a round.
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 09:20:39 PM
Salt lover:
Well, all I can say for this fight is that, at least to my eyes, this is the last test for Pacquiao. The De la Hoya Victory brought plenty of doubts. Yes, we all thought De la Hoya was gonna win, but it was cuz we hinged on his bigger weight, and it turned out that he didn't went in to the ring with the expected extra pounds (150+). Ricky Hatton is the most one-dimensionalist boxer in the World; even Margarito has better defense. I think Tim Bradley would beat Hatton. Now the next in plate is Miguel Cotto, the WBO Welterweight Champion. Unlike De la Hoya, Cotto's young, strong, and in his prime. Some of the "experts" here in TSS say he's "shot", another one of them, some even consider to be TSS's "P4P #1" writer, came out last night with the most dumbest comment ever made in the page calling Cotto a "paper champion". Defending the Title against Joshua Clottey is hardly a "paper champion"s job. Another one has said multiple times that Cotto's style is similar to Hatton's. And to think Miguel Cotto outboxed, not outslugged, outboxed a fighter of the boxing caliber of Mosley. Can Ricky Hatton outbox Shane Mosley? Yeah, that's what I thought. In summary, this will be Pacquiao's True and first adversity against a True primed warrior since the Marquez rematch, and definitely the last test of his career. If he wins, then the De la Hoya doubts will disappear, and his legacy as one of the greats will be sealed for those outside the Philippines forever. If he loses, the doubts will remain and stronger, an overrated sign will give birth, and his reign at the top have come to an end. Despite the 'Fire Power' title, I think the True theme of this fight is 'Pacquiao's Last Test'. That's what I would put. Checkzzz..
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 09:40:13 PM
dp69 @#Pacfan:
lol...that one hurts a little....lol...its all good....if i would of got hit with bricks, i would of done the same too...lol...anyway....i love pacpac....i wish him the best....but he's going up against my boy cotto....win or lose, i will still feel good after the fight....meaning if cotto wins or lose....i loved when cotto said....IM NOT DLH AND IM NOT HATTON.....WOOOOOOOOOOOO......let the battle begin....cant wait....BTW....cotto vs pacquiao will out sell scareweather vs the kisser....by a large margin....you heard it here first....holla back!!!
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 09:47:14 PM
ali:
Do anybody know how to find out what theatres are showing the Mayweather vs Marquez fight.
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 09:59:11 PM
brownsugar:
it's obvious the writer has a low opinion of Mayweather,.. personally if he fights were on the same night on different channels,.. I'd shell out a $100 to watch them both,... hats off to Mayweather for not taking a weak comeback fight,.. it's about as tough as it gets for someone whos been off for nearly 2yrs,... Pac vs Cotto is obviously going to sell more,... but I will not miss seeing Money May for the first time in a long while,.. at any rate the business,.. marketing,.. and sales end of the fights doesn't concern me at all,.. because I don't get a dime whether either fighter in a million or a billion dollars revenue,.. I'm just interested in the fight results...and who gets matched with whom afterwords,.. the business end if for the promoters to sort out... it's almost like debating which actor earns the most money in Hollywood,.. my bank account doesn't get a dime either way,... I just wanna know if the movie is worth seeing,.. and Mayweather is alway worth my time,.. dime and dolla,... Holla!
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 10:11:37 PM
brownsugar:
"personally if THE fights were on the same night on different channels",
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 10:12:52 PM
Fe'Roz :
Love him or hate him, Bob Arum is going to make his boyz some serious money. And, with every move, he's letting Floyd know it. Given the investment PBF has made in his image, he is about to be stripped of the title he believes he owns: "Money". The self-proclaimed box office record setter wasted no time announcing his return days before Manny and Hatton fought. I have no doubt Floyd and Ellerbe thought it a stroke of genius until a bolt of lightning hit Hatton's chin... and the whole calculus changed. Manny became king .... without floyd abdicating. Floyd all but started laughing at Arum and Pacquiao's suggestion that any future bout between these two be split Manny's way. Floyd would soon show the world who was Number One and who set the terms. a rib injury and postponement later, Floyd is once again ready to shine in prime time. But on september 19th, when the crowds start to fill most seats, the talk will be about Manny..... who quite coincidently (I'm sure, not) will be announcing and is starting his first day of training camp. The first round goes to.... Bob Arum.
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 10:47:06 PM
Frank Z@ fe'roz:
Lol i choose to strongly dislike bob arum cause of his histsory of screwing up the game in the first place and just being an arrogant SOB, but the man is definitely a shrewd promoter, and now that MMA is making boxing promoters be less petty we're seeing better fights.
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 11:06:13 PM
#1 PacFan 11-1-1 in "09:
@Salt, I don't think Fe'Roz meant anything bad about him saying that Cotto is a paper champion. I think he meant to say that Cotto would have like it better if he had gotten the title from Margarito personally as he is the lone lost in his record. Regarding this fight, atleast you aint going to have anymore excuses as soon as Pacquiao wins this one. Pacquiao's Last Test? He still has one more after this, Pacquiao-Mayweather dubbed "Fight of the Century" that's to seal his greatness with the best of them.
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 11:15:56 PM
Salt lover@#1Pacfan:
Defending the Title against Joshua Clottey already proves he's no "paper champion". As simple as that. And about me having an excuse in this fight, you mean like the one you already have prepared in case Floyd beats your idol's toughest challenge to date? No, I don't have one. I'm surprise you consider Floyd his last test, after you, your buddies Lee and Fe'ROZ, combined with dp69, and almost all the rest of TSS, have downplayed and viled Floyd Mayweather Jr for all these months with no end, and now you say Floyd is his last test? No, Miguel Cotto will be just fine. And by the way "fight of the century" type of title is too soon. There's 90 more years until this century is over, what makes you think the fight will be bigger than all the future ones?
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 11:34:32 PM
Isaiah:
Man, it's sure hard to make a prediction in this MEGAFIGHT. None of you should be suprised no matter who wins in what way. I mean really, this is what boxing's about, not Mayweather's ability to run from the skelter welters! Both Cotto and Pacquiao are awesome, highly entertaining warriors who USSUALY fight the best opposition available. Pacquiao's wins over Oscer De La Hoya and Ricky Hatton blows Mayweather's ones out of the water and Cotto ducks nobody and doesn't need to personally call out Mayweather. He's ready to fight at all times and it's already known that Mayweather's the one that needs to step up to the plate and quit being a little trick who picks an opponent (JMM) who's even naturally smaller than Hatton. Cotto's the man. Manny nickname is PacMAN and there's a reason one of Floyd's nicknames is Pretty BOY. It's because he's a scared little boy in there and can't fight a man his own size. Anyway, if I have no choice but to pick a winner in the Cotto/Pacman fight, well it's razor close, but I have to give this one to the stronger Cotto since it's at a reasonable weight of 145. Cotto KO'S Pacman in the 10th and unlike Mayweather, these guys will have nothing to be ashamed of afterwards.
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 11:39:44 PM
Isaiah:
I think I'm being fair about the size difference in Cotto/Pacquiao compared to Mayweather/Marquez because Marquez really seems like he shouldn't be trying to push himself past lightweight. That's really about as heavy as he should be where as Pacquiao has fought at Welter and Jr. Welter his last 2 fights and doesn't seem to lose anything in going up in weight so far. (Pacman"s limit is definetly about Welterweight and he'd be a fool to push up any further.) Simply put, Cotto/Pacman at 145 still seems fair where as Marquez is really at his weight limit at 135 and shouldn't go any further. That fight gives Mayweather about all the pros and just seems unfair. Some guys can just gain weight easier then others and I don't think Marquez is one of them.
Thursday Sep 10, 2009 11:49:32 PM
Fe'Roz :
As much as I appreciate support from my brothers here at TSS,I'll speak for myself regarding my comments. For those offended by the nature of my description of Cotto's title, Answer this one question accurately: Name the Welterweight Champion that Miquel Cotto defeated in the Ring to gain his titles? I'm a patient man willing to wait......because eventually you have to admit one indisputable FACT. He never has! That is a cold hard fact. He has never beaten a WW champion In The Ring to earn a title. His first title, the WBA, was won AFTER it was vacated by Ricky Hatton. Cotto, matched with Carlos Quintana for the VACATED title, gained his first WW title. Then he lost that title in the ring badly to Antonio Margarito; the very same Tijuana Tornado who was defeated previously by Paul Williams. And then, as if by some miracle from Caguas, The WBO forced Paul williams, the true WW champion, to VACATE his title. And allora, Miguel got his chance to once again become a WW champion..... against the frightening and consensus #1 Contender, Michael Jennings. After a few rounds sparring, Jennings called it a night and Miquel, confidence restored, returned once again to the top of the WW division .....without having beaten a champion. Them's the facts. Now, that said Salt. I respect MC enormously. I expect him to pursue Manny fiercely and anticipate a Battle Royale. I also expect him to lose the titles in the ring that were made vacant on his behalf. pc
Friday Sep 11, 2009 12:13:34 AM
Fe'Roz :
Oh, and as far as my having been included among Floyd's Haters, please read my posts carefully. I think he' a superlative fighter who has yet to have..... primarily his decision....a career defining fight. Cotto could very well be that fight.... but as I said last night: I pick Floyd to defeat Cotto nine times out of ten. Floyd should only wish that all his haters had as much respect as this falsely alleged one.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 12:23:24 AM
boxingfan!:
freddie: Manny, you're gonna beat this puerto rican badly. i'll predict less the fight will end inside round 9, son.
Manny: Really?
Friday Sep 11, 2009 12:40:29 AM
Salt lover@Fe'ROZ:
Like I said before, I say it again, defending the Title against the top fighters in the Division already proves you ain't no paper champion. A paper champion, necessarily, is not just a fighter who has won a vacant World Title. A paper champion is one who since having that Title hasn't fought with any real top opponents. Yes, the WBO was vacant when he won it, but I already mentioned Cotto defended the Title against Clottey, and he also once defended the WBA Title Shane Mosley, who you seem to forget also defeated Antonio Margarito, and in a much more stunning manner than Paul Williams. What "paper champion" does this? I didn't get offended. But one must write things how they are. If after Jennings, Cotto would've taken another fighter in the same level as, or lower than then Jennings, then Cotto would fit more the paper champion position stuff....................And you don't hate Floyd? Boy, thank goodness. What would've happened if you actually do?
Friday Sep 11, 2009 12:51:41 AM
Salt lover@Fe'ROZ:
OK, about you hating Floyd, alright then, my bad about that one. Then it's dp69, #1Pacfan, Mr. Lee and others who escape my mind, that are P4P Best Floyd Mayweather Jr Haters.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 01:01:33 AM
dalmatian:
Once Pacquiao gets over with Cotto, Bob Arum can now negotiate for the fight of the century....Pacquiao vs Vitali Klitschko...Hooray. Forget about Fraud Weather, there's no money in it just wait for the outcome of Fraud vs Kisser and you will know what Im talking about. It's a sure loser. At least with Pacquiao-Klitschko, it will really cement the legacy of Pacquiao...win or lose....wanna ride the bandwagon?..hehe
Friday Sep 11, 2009 01:58:56 AM
isidro:
I don't know if i am being superstitious but latest pictures of Cotto looks unhappy as it shows on his face.He even looks like not that ,once a muscular boxing champion.Just an observation,while Floyd looks like body builder in preparation for his fight with smaller but dangerous foe,Marquez,another piece of the jig saw puzzle ,would he fit into his new size ?,The trend which pacquiao was able to bring to , on the direction of the sport of boxing anew, standard of an exciting boxing match.
To guess now who will win is not the main thing,but the match if is exciting enough to be antertaining and worth the effort and the money.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 02:15:45 AM
pinoy:
NO DOUBT!!! MANNY "PACMAN" PACQUIAO WILL WIN THE FIGHT ON NOVEMBER 14... (HE IS STRONG, SO FAST, INTELLEGENT FIGHTER AND MOST OF ALL HUMBLE AND GOD FEARING...)
Friday Sep 11, 2009 02:40:08 AM
Ricochette:
I like Pacquiao but he will lose this fight out of sheer arrogance!
Friday Sep 11, 2009 02:54:07 AM
MANG RESTY:
When you have a superior product in Pacquiao/cotto it will surely be a hit considering that it is a legitimate fight.
pinoy Boxing fans chat with fellow pinoys at pacfans-corner com
Friday Sep 11, 2009 03:13:14 AM
Banjo:
pac's getting to comfy, you can tell by his hair growing kinda long. he's not taking anything seriously as he use to. I just hope he can pull this off
Friday Sep 11, 2009 04:23:58 AM
reynante:
Manny vs Miguel is definitely a mega fight. It needs no more media attention coz boxing lovers will see the fight anyway worldwide. I pick Manny to win this fight. If he executes a good defense and stick to his fight. Expect Manny to annihilate Miguel. Miguel is perceived to be stronger, but what can you say about Manny's power of knocking out Ricky cold with just one blow. The speed is definitely a factor for this fight, Many experts belittle Manny's speed because of Miguel Cotto's win over Mosley. But guys Manny is not Mosley. Try to look how Manny uses his speed against his opponents and his awkward punches coming from different angles. Its a tough fight for Manny but he can win this fight definitely.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 04:37:24 AM
Jorge Ping:
I think GMA network is to be blame if ever pac man loses his fight to cotto they built up this non guapo guy comparing to this guys the likes of Ding Dong, Richard etc. The problem is they are making this guy a superstar in movie industry. Leave to Manny what is his natural ability like boxing, but to Manny as a movie superstar I dont admire his ability, pls you guys over there pls. advise Manny to concentrate to his carreer that makes him great cause being an artista I dont admire him . That only reduces is time of boxing..
Friday Sep 11, 2009 04:47:03 AM
blue4cor:
That's the keyword George, superior product. Floyd-JMM match-up don't even have the moral right to merit a comparisson. I'd like to add that this is a fight between fighters who want to put on a show but are too scared to trade punches and two fighters who are ashamed to put on a mouse & cat show.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 05:03:36 AM
putchak:
roach is telling manny how much he loves and missed him
Friday Sep 11, 2009 05:31:24 AM
vegasxxx:
JMM needs to learn to be more agressive like Manny, then maybe someday he'll become a legend and hall of famer too. Unfotunately for him, he'll probably get his a$$ kicked by Money May and Pac (again) before that happens.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 06:06:03 AM
perry:
PACMAN via skull-smashing KO in 3rd, much worse than Hatton!!!
Friday Sep 11, 2009 06:10:04 AM
ernie tabarez:
November 14, 2009- It is going to be a good history in boxing and likewise a revenge for the late flash Elorde. With the help of Manny "Pacman" Pacquiao, we will able to it. Long Live Philippines.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 06:52:40 AM
Anony:
Can't take a joke... everything seems personal.... I only wish you good Mr. Lee from Japan.... ☺ Cotto in 8 rounds. Then Mayweather. Then Margarito without plaster... then retire as P4P best. Then the hall of fame. The future looks bright. Pacquiao just made a bad decision but a courageous one. Much repect for your fighter Smiley C, Robert Curtis and Joey. Mind games keeps us sharp...
Friday Sep 11, 2009 07:01:07 AM
ali @ FeRoz:
Tell me somethen what is a career defining fight is it a fight with someone else that's great and it a close and exciting. Or could it be against someone thats great that you totally dominate. Like if Mayweather ko Pac in 6 rounds and the other 5 round Floyed was kicking his ass would the be career defining.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 08:38:02 AM
EM:
Radam, please don't call another commenter a loser.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 08:42:08 AM
fogfrogblog:
Wow there's a lot of opinions here. But mostly paper not weight. Nothing to be serious about! No one can take away anything between Cotto and Pacquiao. They don't need excuses, their resume speaks for itself. And no doubt will be much bigger draw than Juan vs Floyd, but let's not kid ourself, no boxing fan would wanna miss any fights. Those four names are the biggest right now and it's all going to happen soon. Mayweather Jr. vs Marquez lest than two weeks from now, Miguel vs Emanuel two months from now. I pick Mayweather and Pacquiao to win. Although Cotto is great and fought the bigger boxers in his division, so did Pac in a lot of divisions. But Pacquiao is just another level away from Cotto, especially with a great trainer like Freddy Roach, I'm certain that the Pinoy pride wont let the fans down!
Friday Sep 11, 2009 09:15:42 AM
Anony @ Isidro:
My friend... show me one photo from Cotto were he smiles. You won't find it. It is part of his personality not to smile or wave to people alá Tito Trinidad. People here in the island have grown to understand he is only a boxer and has no intention of being a celebrity. He has never received a big welcome in the airport either. Now that I mention it, I guess people will receive him this time (if he wins) whether he likes it or not. I mean, you dont beat a P4P boxer everyday and the Pacquiao-Cotto fever is red hot even now. So I believe people will show his love for boxing anyways in the streets. I remember when Tito "won" De la Hoya. The parade lasted about 4 hours and the whole san juan metro area stopped. People came from the buildings, guys climbing the truck were Tito was saluting from, woman kissing him, kids running wild everywhere, everybody's faces were shining that day. I still get goosebumps because you got to be there to believe it. It was one of the happiest days ever in Puerto Rico. Tito was so happy and overwhelmed that he was crying at times. That's when you come to realize that boxing is incredibly deep rooted in our culture. For Pacquiao-Cotto fight I can assure you 70% or more of the Boricuas in the island will be tuned. You got to love boxing!!!
Friday Sep 11, 2009 09:23:19 AM
noypinga:
bob knows boxing very well! firepower is the fight of the year! shame on the two counterpunchers!
Friday Sep 11, 2009 09:36:53 AM
Salt lover@Anony:
Yo dude! You remember that! I remember there were like 6 or 7 guys in one car with their shirts off waving the Puerto Rican flag screaming. The government even kept the day off, there wasn't even work in Puerto Rico that day so people can say hi to 'Tito'. I doubt Cotto will be receving something like that if he wins in November, but maybe close to that. People showed support for him when h e lost to Margarito. And about his personality, yeah, I was in Plaza Carolina Mall before the Clottey fight, and there was only like 20 or 30 people around him from the 200 in a section of the mall. He's a very serious guy. It is clear hi fights for his kids, his family, and for himself. I respect that. But yeah, even with that, the majority of the Puerto Ricans will be watching that fight. Boxing is no longer a sport in the island, it is a tradition next to baseball. Good comments Anony!
Friday Sep 11, 2009 10:15:01 AM
Salt lover@Anony:
Yo dude! I just found out that Celestino Caballero, just wrote a public open letter to Juanma, thanking him for taking the fight and talking some stuff. Yo man, that dude's been talking huge amount of garbage about Juanma calling him a "MAR!C0N" for past few months and the Mexicans fans are enlighted with that. Now he's finally gonna get it. In January 2010 is that Caballero-Lopez fight. I for one, can't wait for that one to see who's the best Super Bantamweight in the World. Boy, talking about rivalry, but I think this is great and awesome for boxing. Go and check it out.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 10:25:33 AM
#1 PacFan "KO's Cotto in 7":
@Salt, you actually believe that taking on Marquez was the best possible challenge he can take coming back? Give me a break, this is a total mismatch like I said from the beginning. I even called it before the fight was going to be announced when rumors circled that May was contemplating on coming back. I said he was going to pick someone in lower weight classes. Look it up you'll see. He said that he was looking to fine a tune up fight, this is definitely a tune up fight if you ask me. He could've atleast took on Berto, Collazo, or even Rodriguez all in the 147 division that could've been great tune up fights for May. What you don't think that Mayweather and Pac squaring off doesn't sound appealing to you? I don't downplay Mayweather skills and abilities. I only criticized his acomplishments in the ring and his career. The best(MP) vs The so-called best(PBF) I must say that has to be the biggest fight up-to-date.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 11:12:16 AM
#1 PacFan 11-1-1 in "09:
You can relax right now because I am confident that Floyd will prevail in the fight unscathed. But if he decides to go back off into the sunset then I lose all of the respects I have for him. I do respect him for being a dominant fighter and being very skilled but his record tells me nothing.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 11:19:39 AM
Salt lover@#1Pacfan:
Last time I checked, Juan Manuel Marquez is the second best P4P, and the one who gave your idol tremendous problems in the ring, and I'm being generous saying only he gave problems to Pacquiao. Coming off from a year and half layoff to fight the second best P4P, and a skilled fighter in the caliber of Marquez is amazing, yes it is. Berto, Collazo, and Rodriguez are nowhere near that mythical list, and never fought nobody like Pacquiao. And you're now calling Mayweather Jr the so-called best? The one people are calling the best is Pacquiao; if there was a so-called best is him. There's no more respect Floyd will lose with you. In all the articles about Floyd this page has written, you're first or second in line to spill criticism and attacks next to your buddies. And if his record tells you nothin, then you don't know nothing about him. Floyd's been in the spot light and was a P4P fighter long before your idol ever came into the picture.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 11:37:06 AM
Salt lover@#1Pacfan:
Oh! and when I said Floyd was a P4P fighter before your idol came into the picture, I meant Floyd was one of the best 10 P4P fighters, not necessesarily the #1 just yet. Just in case you misinterpret it.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 11:42:17 AM
Knockout1:
All I can say is that Miguel Cotto is gonna block all of Manny Pacquiao's punches...... With his face!!!!!!!!!
Friday Sep 11, 2009 12:03:26 PM
Radam G, a humble PacManite:
That is not a problem, Editor Mike! But it would be nice if you'd tell Anony to show some decorum, civility and common courtesy, and quit calling me "Robert Curtis, Mr. Lee, Joey, Smiley C, #1 PacFan, Rashid. Rossi, Ricky, and a few other readers that I cannot remember right now. (You, yourself, can go into the archives and see Anony work his juvenile sickness and manchild madness.) Nothing will convince this guy that these readers are not me. This guy is really with obsessed with instigating and agitating me and any readers who he believes is me. Why don't you tell him -- NOT SO! There is only one Radam G, and I don't need to express myself in another pseudonym or clone anybody, as I believe that you know, as Anony does. This is why this con man is claiming that I'm doing it. This is his streetwise way of covering up. This is disrespectable to the other readers and the input that they so elegantly give to this Universe. Editor Mike, I ask you, why is this guy on some type of crusade of dumb and damage? He trys to damage any good flow in this room that he disagrees with. I never come after anybody, until they start on me. And the one joker that is constantly starting nonsense and hatred is Anony. He would use bigoted comments -- I think that you know that -- if you didn't censor him. Like you have emailed me, on other sites, editors have emailed me and told me that Anony has been blocked from their sites. (Apparently this dude is so slow that he does know that his computer can be disabled from entering a site, no matter what pseudonym he uses. His clones and other pseudonyms didn't work on the sites.) And I believe it, because he hasn't shown up again. And the readers here, who go to multi-boxing sites probably have notice that too. I'm not saying to block anybody from TSS, because it is the best. It takes all -- the witty, the looney, the knowledgeable and the fake -- and give them opporturnities to express themselves. And I believe that one can learn from all views, even crazy and fake ones. I will say that TSS has great tolerance and it is sincerely appreciated. Holla!
Friday Sep 11, 2009 01:38:04 PM
#1 PacFan 11-1-1 in "09:
There's only one PacFanatic on here and that's the one 4rm Killa Kali! But I don't mind being mistaken for a Radam, MistaLee, or Curtis who are strongly knowledgable to the sport. No offense Smile C. you're just inconsistent.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 02:12:55 PM
Anony:
Oh God... I have no comment. Let's talk about boxing Radam. Stay cool and I'll be cool. Today's friday.... let it rest.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 03:15:16 PM
Radam G, a most humble PacManite:
What are you talking about -- COOL? I'm always cool. You are the one with issues and foul thinking that other readers and I are the same person. That is very disrespectable to them. Everybody has been telling you to talk BOXING -- one of the disciplines that you have a very IQ in and apparently lack knowledge of. I got no more time for you or comments. Keep having your miserable existence. And no comment will be awesome. Holla!
Friday Sep 11, 2009 06:35:18 PM
Radam G:
*a very low IQ...
Friday Sep 11, 2009 09:23:28 PM
Isaiah:
Man Radam! Your're the one who's always the instigator on these blogs. Quit trying to act innocent. Some of us are able to point out the character flaws in someone like Mayweather Jr. and your're always the one to start something over it.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 09:25:28 PM
Fe'Roz :
Anony has a point. It is Friday; the Sabbath for many. But .... it's also Fight Night. So let's keep it going... but keep it clean. Ali, Good question. I would say that a career defining fight is when the fight defines you, not necessarily but not by definition the other way around. Examples are many. Tommy Hearns: spectacular hitter. Sugar Ray Leonard: extraordinary boxer. But it was their epic battle that defined them. That is not to take anything away from all of their respective achievements...... but the fact remains that history will always define their greatness and their valor by the Fight they fought together. The list is endless. Now I know that styles make fights. And there are some times when a fighter is so superior to his peers at a weight level that he has trouble finding matches to accentuate his talent. Larry Holmes is an example. Having followed the GOAT, Frazier and Foreman, Larry had trouble defining his place. Still does. I myself have resisted the recent lovefest. But Floyd is not Larry. Floyd has had... and still has... so many opportunities to match himself with any fighter ....up or down... in weight. And he has the power to make and negotiate virtually any match conceivable. But he has opted not to. Meanwhile, Manny has. PW has shown a willingness to. That is what has ignited such outpouring of support and admiration. Floyd chose his path. He decides. But we, the fans and History, define. That's my last word....... on this thread anyhow. pc
Friday Sep 11, 2009 09:34:51 PM
#1 PacFan 11-1-1 in "09:
What do you mean I don't know him? I followed his career from the beginning. I remember watching him in the Olympics there he caught me as fan( a bigFan) I saw a lot of potential in Mayweather. I was awwed by his skills, he reminded me a lot like SRL(ATfave) or the slick Whitaker. I really believe his skill is a lot like Leonard but he was defensively better and Leonard had a slighter edge in his offense. I was on the Mayweather bandwagon, can you believe that? It was when he moved up to Jr. Welt is when he lost me.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 10:06:52 PM
Salt lover@#1Pacfan:
Yes, I agree you with there. For some reason, that I still can't understand why, he didn't take on Kostya Tszyu. Yeah, I remember that was a fight I aching to see, but for some reason he took Arturo Gatti. And to be honest, and sorry for anyone who gets offended, but it's the Truth, Gatti was a punching bag with legs. He was exciting and all, but he was not a great fighter. I'm sure if somebody brings this to Floyd now, he'll say he beat Hatton, who beat Tszyu. Yeah, he didn't fought the best at 140lbs, but ironically at that time when he went to that Weightclass he started to be on top of the P4P list, when Roy got KO'ed by Tarver. And about the comparisons you made, yeah he's more defensive than Leonard, and has the style of Robinson. He should've been called 'Sugar', not Mosley. But I definitely disagree with Floyd when he said he was better than Robinson using the his undefeated record as a reason. Good comment there.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 10:16:22 PM
Robert Curtis @ Anony for the last time:
I, Robert Curtis, am my own man. I have had some very minor disputes and debates with the TSS writers and readership, but they have never escalated into the same kind of paranoia and delusions of persecution you experience. Please don't ever confuse me with Radam or one of his clones or ever talk @ me again, you miserable wretch. Get help. Stay on your medication.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 10:26:29 PM
Anony:
Like I said before... I will do no comment...
Friday Sep 11, 2009 11:17:55 PM
Robert Curtis:
Seriously, Editor Mike, is there any way we can get this piece of S off our back?
Friday Sep 11, 2009 11:29:16 PM
#1 PacFan 11-1-1 in "09:
Believe it or not Salt, Floyd Jr. started off a humble man. He used to give mad props to the opponents he defeated. I guess it fades out wihen you get in the limelight. Money surely does some of the stranges things in a man. I'm starting to see it in the Pacman. He is still humble as can be but the limelight has definitely changed his lifestyle that get in the way of his career. My favorite basketball player Michael Jordan who the best player who ever played the game was entered in the HOF today. I was very happy about that because I also followed his career and became one of my idols as well. He is as humble as they come. If Floyd proves me wrong in his comeback and really takes on the best out there I have nothing to be ashamed of because he was once one of my favorite fighters. But we'll see.
Friday Sep 11, 2009 11:40:59 PM
#1 PacFan 11-1-1 in "09:
I vote Anony to stay! I wish to see not a single reader on here get booted off pls. Radam, you guys need to get along, Anony is trying to make peace with you. You guys have let this gone too long now. Where's The Roast! MIA! Calling out my rival SOHK...we need some of your professional analysis on the Marquez-Mayweather and Pacquiao-Cotto fights man. You're prolly bz training tho, it's all good, make that money. TSS is off the hook! We only live once guys! Payce out!
Friday Sep 11, 2009 11:52:49 PM
Robert Curtis:
So #1 PaFan, you think I'm Radam too? I chose to use my own name from the beginning. I can show up with three forms of identification anywhere. Where is the main office of TSS, EM?
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 12:04:18 AM
Robert Curtis@#1 PacFan:
I don't want anyone to be booted off. Sorry if I'm taking it all too seriously. I'm a minnow among the great contributors here. It just creeps up my back when folks say I'm not me.
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 12:10:17 AM
MisterLee @ bobbyc:
Yo dude, please reread #1 pacsage's comment, it's a response to SOMEONE else that accused him of being you me, radam etc etc etc. He did not say this himself. Good boxing talk. Yo guys, made a new point in the Woods article. If marquez is the man who beat the man, then is chris john the man who beat the man who beat the man? Does he hold unofficial wins over marquez, and therefore pacquiao, and therefore hatton and de la hoya thru the 3rd degree, and therefore should be a runner up for mayweather welterweight b/c he beat marquez? Holler!
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 12:11:26 AM
MisterLee:
I am Ching-Yin Lee, a martial artist, aka- Caveman Lee, from Maryland, East coast baby! the 3-0-1. A boxing fan to the death. Also, time to mention, ya'll gotta stop comparing MMA to boxing. The parallels are really meaningless. kickboxing and muay thai hold more similarities to boxing than mma (including a 10 count and 8 count i believe), only stand up, and similar strategy). This is like comparing MMA to WWE b/c they both have ground fighting and wrestling. Let the sports be different sports, and to disqualify an MMA athlete as being "not as good or skilled" as a top notch "boxer' is not being an informed spectator. Most of ya'll never heard of Royce Gracie, Sakuraba, Shogun Rua, Anderson Silva (maybe), GSP, Keith Hackney and others that are very skilled overall fighters with specialization. In a stand up fight agst even a top boxer these "brutes" could take the boxer anyday, b/c while a boxer circles and tries to warm the jab or set up combinations, a round house kick in the thigh, which a boxer has no defense agst, will surely hit a few times, and while a boxer is trying to find his range, the kickboxer will already have followed up the kick with punches. As we know, the leg is about 3 times stronger and more powerful than the arm, and having 2 x more weapons than a boxer, and being a martial artist takes more skill than you think or than it looks, the martial artist CAN be viewed as a more skillful fighter, tho the boxer is a more skillful athlete ONLY in the boxing arena. If ya don't believe me, find a good kick boxer, then find a good boxer of equal size, and which would you rather take, a right cross to the face, or a round house kick with the shins to the face, or a left hook to the gut, or a spinning back kick/side kick to the gut. Same goes with submission wrestling and ground fighting, the BEST groundfighters are very patient and methodical and have great technique. The bad ones struggle when they're on the bottom, the good ones wait for a good opportunity, like a good stalker or a good pressure fighter waiting for the good body shot. You can see something like that with Royce Gracie vs. Dan Severn, where Gracie was pinned down for some 15-20 mins agst a guy who outweighed him by 60-70 lbs. Finally, when the opportunity presented itself, gracie grabbed his arm and shoulder barred him with his legs. Joint manipuation, using leverage (not brute force), and good technique make a successful MMA fighter. There are a lot of run-of-the-mill "tough guys" in MMA, but they never go far. Just look up the fight Anderson Silva vs. Chris Lebon (one of the front runners of "Ultimate Fighter" reality show). You'll see a skilled technician vs. a senseless, "exciting", and no holds brawler. And i feel they are both two different sports, and pple oughta stop making the comparisons, and their only thing in common is they are combat sports and they are popular. Anyone who says martial arts takes no skills do not realize that it takes a minimum of 5 years to be competent in a martial art, and a min. of 8-10 years to be somewhat fluent, and 15-20 to start to understand it. A lot of pro-boxers have not even been boxing for 10-12 years (nate campbell). Just pointing. Have respect for pple who fight, and try to understand the sport a bit before you bash it. Holler pple! Much respect!
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 12:25:18 AM
Radam G, a most humble PacManite:
See what I'm talking about Editor Mike. Go in the archives and see where I ever started anything with this troubling making, name-calling, knuckleheaded Isaiah. Just go and see how many times that this____ called me ignorant, crazy and stupid before I thrilled into his heavy know-nothing behind. He brainwashes himself that someone is picking on him. He cannot take and admit to what he puts out. I don't say anything to this jerk and can care less about him, but he has a habit of name calling me everything Anony starts up. The brain challenged person should keep my pseudonym out of his grill. He doesn't know jack about me, and fakes and poses his behind off. Once again, once something is written a person shouldn't lie and say that he didn't do or start it. The archives do not lies. This immature person, who cannot admit to his herd mentality should read his own posts. He deliverly makes an effort to say my name, as Anony does. I would let him get away with insults for about five or ten times before I put it on him. And he cannot take it, and start making threats. He is such a keyboard commando, who would not stand a chance in the gym, even with my seven-year daughter. This sucka disappears for awhile and then come back jumping up in my grill with his faking-to-know-everything-about-boxing behind. This type is always in the gym meddling with everybody until he is chased out or beat down by a pee wee female boxer. Tell that sucka to just stick with boxing, and quit calling people ignorant, stupid and crazy, because he is a follower and can't think for himself and pose and fade then explode with his immature anger and threats. Holla!
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 01:15:04 AM
Isaiah:
Wow, I mean I didn't think anyone would become that upset about our arguments in here. No need to lawyer up Radam. I'll stick to the boxing facts and back off if you'll make an effort to stop using words like sucka, grill and arse. Seriously, this severe abuse of the English language is getting old. I may dissagree with you a lot and may agree with Anony a little, but I'm not requesting anyone be booted off and I'm noone follower. Another thing I'm going to try to clear up with you again. I'm not fat in the slightest, nowhere near it and I wouldn't be caught dead wearing something as tacky as a grill. One more thing, I don't everything, but I do have quite a bit of boxing knowledge, but I'm tired of arguing with you, so can we drop this already man?
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 01:38:28 AM
Radam G, a most humble PacManite @ #1PacFan:
This dude is never going to stop. He starts with me every time, because of his personal jealousy and phoniness. It all started with Team TSS making me an "Honorary Team Member," Reader of the Year, my being umpteen correct on a lot of upsets and TSS posting me in the Quote of Note 27 times last year. This dude started calling me racist names, attacking Filipinos and threating to fight me if I ever came to New York, where he claimed to be at that time. This dude was even going on other boxing sites complaining about me being a "favorite on TSS," started cloning me and making threats. It got so bad that he was blocked from the other sites, so he started his cloning in this Universe. He probably doesn't remember it, even though he admitted to it once, because he apparently has some type of mental-block issue. Then again, he is a con man, and is probably faking and posing. He makes hatred comments and straightout fibs, then claims that everybody is picking on he and siding with me, like it is forbidden for anyone to check him. He once even posted: "I cannot believe that yall are siding with this Filipino against me. His name is Radam, and that is a Muslim name." What a bigot! I told him that I guess that Hillary Rodham Clinton is a Muslim then, because my psuedonym is her maiden name -- spelled differently. I have no problems with this poser-fader, and I can care less about him and the little fat boy Isaiah who follows this dude every action. You'd be amazed of some of the stuff that Anony has said. Sometimes Editor Mike did not censor it in time. This dude even called me the G-word that is racist toward Asians. Any way, trust me! This nutcase will start up again in a few days or so. And Isaiah will never stop. He will just go away for a month or so, then come back and follow his arch pied piper off the cliff like always. Holla!
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 02:10:36 AM
Isaiah:
Forget you man. I agreed with Anony on some boxing standpoints. If he did make racist comments, they have nothing to do with me. I'm a skinny white guy by the way. Tired of saying it. Just get your facts straight.
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 02:33:52 AM
Anony:
Again.. no comment.... Dude, send those insults to my email. The TSS doesn't deserve this. arterush@gmail
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 08:27:33 AM
MisterLee:
Come on guys, at some point, it's about not revolving your life around your enemies or rivals, and more with aiming towards love and connection. If rivalries consume you, it says more about you than your rival. Taking the higher road and rolling with the punches speak dividends about your character. Don't let one another get on your nerves too much. We're here as a way to stress relief and speak heights of pugilism, not to vent our frustrations on another cyber keyboard tapper. With that: Chris John anybody? He beat the marquez who beat pacquiao. So should chris john get a title shot at mayweahter and cotto? It follows the same logic that marquez would beat mayweather. Holler!
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 10:28:32 AM
EM:
Sad to say, I am nearing the end of the rope here, and am getting close to calling a timeout for guys that are getting too angry, and personal, and insulting. Like in a hockey fight, both guys, or all guys invloved are going to be asked to step away from the forum for a span of time--no matter of who the perceived instigator is---it's simply too draining for me be overseeing this. I need everyone to be the bigger man, and STOP WITH THE NAME CALLING AND THREATS. EVERYONE.
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 10:50:56 AM
#1 PacFan 11-1-1 in "09:
@TSS members, if I can learn to be restrained then you can too. I remember when I've have my heated debates with SOHK and it went out of hand. But you guys were there to mediated which is what I'm trying to do. @R. Curtis, I didn't accuse you of being Radam, I just said that Anony is a regular who don't deserve to get booted off. @Radam, let by gones be by gones Pare'. @MLee, yo good point on the Chris John thing, never thougth about that. Catcha ya'll later gotta take the kids to their soccer game.
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 11:56:09 AM
Fe'Roz :
Yo Fellas. Here we are talking to each other passionately and intelligently about Boxing. The hurt business, where great athletes pit their skills in an arena with bad intentions. And yet, when the fights end, what do we see and admire? Great sportsmanship. Genuine respect for a brother warrior. In some cases, true affection and friendship for a life time. So EM sets up IMHO the finest forum in the business for us to speak to each other. In many cases, many times a day. For no cost. With words, not fists. and what do we get? Most of the time a discourse and dialogue like no other. Other time, BS. But the BS needs to end. We already lost a brother, one of my favorite posters, SOHK, because of this nonsense. Think. how is it that two men can use their fists for 36 minutes trying to KO their opponent and HUG him after a Fight..... and some of us allow words to damage relations and a forum that is a gift to the rest of us. Words... not fists. So I'm with EM. Man up. Neutral corners.... and cut the BS.
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 02:10:15 PM
Emanuel Steward:
Cotto will win the fight. Cotto throws a lot of jabs that are targeted to disrupt rhythm and timing, and he hits very hard and has elusive hand speed too. When Manny throws his lead left hand, he is always out of balance. He overextends the punch and falls over his lead right foot. This is not good when it comes to fighting a guy like Cotto. Miguel will half step and counter with an uppercut or a lead right hand. Cotto is going to push Manny backward. He is going to punish Manny with pressure, weight, size, and punching power. For the record, I loathe catchweights. To me, if a “fighter” calls out a champion at a higher weight class, then meet that champion at his weight class. Catchweights are meaningless. Don’t issue a half-ass challenge. You call someone out, and then whoop their ass at the weight that they campaigned at and won a title in. Plain and simple. Its like picking on a guy that you know has been weakened somehow and you beat him. The question is simple. Did you really beat your foe or did you beat a shell or percentage of your enemy?
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 02:25:48 PM
Fe'Roz :
Miquel fighting at 145 for more money than he will ever see in his lifetime..... is his choice. And IMO, a great one. At one pound lighter than he weighed in for Clottey, the difference is fractional. The counter argument to your inference that Manny should "Man up" is that Cotto accepted the challenge. So no excuses.
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 05:00:02 PM
oskar:
To me, if a “fighter” calls out a champion at a higher weight class, then meet that champion at his weight class. Catchweights are meaningless. Don’t issue a half-ass challenge. You call someone out, and then whoop their ass at the weight that they campaigned at and won a title in... So this applies to JMM too, right?
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 05:07:32 PM
Twinkle D:
IMO if a bigger champion call out a smaller man for the money, the bigger one should deal with the catchweight. There was a time in boxing that big guys didn't call out little guys. It is now about losing the weight and catching big or better paydays.
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 05:49:02 PM
Salt lover@Emmanuel Steward:
I don't know if you're the real guy, but you sure sound that you know a lot of boxing. I agree 100% with everything you wrote, and hell yes, "catweights" are stupid. Those things misplace the rules and order of boxing. People can say whatever they wanna say about this or the guy has done it, and that back in the days they've done it. But the Truth is that those things are stupid and unneccessary. Floyd Mayweather Jr (39-0) is my #1 favorite fighter, and as a fan, I'll forgive him this time, but he better not go down in an invented weight again like that, unless he's challenging somebody at the 140lbs limit. Anyways good writings Emmanuel. It'll be great if you're the real one, but I very highly doubt it. Anyways, great, great comment!
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 06:08:48 PM
Salt lover@Anony:
Yo! I gotta question, I know you're Puerto Rican, but just out of curiosity, have you ever been in Spanish boxing websites. If you have, which one? I'm trying to figure out if you're somebody I know in the internet.
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 06:10:54 PM
MIsterLee at the prefight staredown...:
Come on marquez backers! If chris john beat marquez, should chris john be lined up to fight floyd? by the 2nd degree, chris john beat pacquiao, therefore he should get the cotto fight, or mayweather fight right? I mean he's not just a featherweight, he's got height, he can adjust to welterweight right? he's probably taller than may at anyway, so why not fight chris john? pc out! tss rules!
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 07:07:59 PM
Salt lover@Mr.Lee:
That's not you man. I know that's the real Mr.Lee. If you are I say to you, things don't workout that way. But that's not you man, I know that.
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 07:19:54 PM
Radam G, a most humble PacManite:
Wow! I shoulda, woulda, coulda went to Puerto Rica with Posse Pac. I hear that Manny has gotten the loudest cheers there. But I just had to come to Cali to see SOG Ward, the next pugilist superstar, along with the Cali Crusher Arreola. Hey MisterLee, I got pictures taken with both guys. Just imagine when I was a preteen boxing phenomenon, I took a photo with Joe Louis, but by then his was sitting in a wheelchair, and with Sugar Ray Robinson, by then he was senile, ill and also in a wheelchair. I got photos taken with five of boxing greatest Sugarmen. Enough said. I don't want rub anybody the wrong way. Holla!
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 07:37:28 PM
#1 PacFan 11-1-1 in "09:
@E. Steward, Manny doesn't get out of position as much as he used to. That lead left hand I believe will be the key and there's nothing Cotto can do to avoid it. I don't know why people see Cotto as a counter-puncher, he doesn't even counter punch. I think Cotto will apply pressure but he will get hurt doing so. Cotto will pressure for the first couple of rounds but he will be the one who ends up backing up because Manny will catch him coming in. Manny will be the first fighter he faces who can put pressure mixed with speed. Cotto's vulnerabel chin will eat leather from that lead left and end it by KO. Regarding your catch-weight issue, this is not much of a handicap. Cotto weighed in at 146 with Clottey and he's only being asked to come down one more pound. What's a pound? Welterweights sometimes weigh in at 145 and is still considered a Welt fight. Seems to me that you're already setting yourself up for an excuse in case MP shocks the world again.
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 08:24:33 PM
MisterLee in a neutral corner...:
Wow, #1 pacsage vs. Manny Steward! What a showdown! @ Radam, i was kidding about the staredown. It's one my little verbs: MisterLee digs to the body etc... i'm just sizing up whoever was a big marquez backer, and using their logic to apply to chris john who beat marquez, and therefore should be a good match for mayweather with that logic right? Holler!
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 08:27:41 PM
#1 PacFan 11-1-1 in "09:
@Radam, you lucky dawg! Yo let me know when you guys touch down at the Wildcard Gym. I want to get some pix b4 the I leave back in Central Kali.
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 08:28:11 PM
Salt lover@#1Pacfan:
You're talking about Miguel as if he was one-dimensional fighter. You once even had the nerves to compared him to Hatton! That's in the same league as Fe'ROZ calling him a "paper champion". Cotto not a counter-puncher? Did you ever watched the Mosley fight? Miguel Cotto OUTBOXED Shane Mosley. You didn't see Cotto counter-punching and boxing in that fight? Miguel Cotto can box, and yes, he counter-punches; he's not only a pressure fighter. And it's not the lead left hands Cotto doesn't have defense, it's the uppercuts. His whole career, he has been hurt, wobbled, and stopped because of uppercuts, not lead left hands. The uppercuts are the punches that put Cotto down: Ricardo Torres wobbled him with a left hook-uppercut mix punch in the second round, Zab Judah stunned him with an uppercut in the beginning of the fight. Mosley got him cometimes with uppercuts, and of course, Margarito's best punch, the uppercut, is what got him down. Lead left hands don't do nothing to him. Tell me what fight have you seen him hurt, or in danger because of lead left hands. Also, it appears your idol's gameplan is not to put pressure to Cotto, but to move from him. Pacquiao team demanded that the fight be fought at a 24-foot ring; we'll see if Pacquiao can box. Cotto already proved it successfully with Mosley. And finally Cotto's a tremendous body puncher and I heard your idol's vulnerable down there.
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 08:50:34 PM
Misterlee @ the Sodium Lover:
Yo man! sup salt! just wanted to say: WHAT fight have you NOT seen Cotto get hurt? He gonna get hurt, his chin and stamina are not the best, and the first 2 rounds is the only time he will have to knock out manny. If he doesn't do this, he gonna have lights out by round 8. Pc out! Tss rules! Roach says cotto will fall in 10. pc out! aight.
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 09:19:27 PM
Salt lover@Mr.Lee:
First of all, where did I wrote Cotto doesn't get hurt? I didn't say Cotto doesn't get hurt. I just said Miguel Cotto knows how to box and he knows how to counter-punch. Which debunks your beliefs that he needs to KO Pacquiao early. The man can box, and he already has shown it. And who cares about what Roach says? Does a trainer says "My fighter's gonna lose"? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Will Roach say: "Manny's right now training hard, we're training very hard, and come November 14th, we'll definitely lose the fight" LOL!!!!!!!! I don't care what Roach says.
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 09:34:26 PM
Smiley C:
Pacquiao will win by an early knockout fo' sure!
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 10:06:46 PM
MisterLee @ lover of the sodium (salt lover):
Yo dude! here's what you said: "His whole career, he has been hurt, wobbled, and stopped because of uppercuts, not lead left hands...Lead left hands don't do nothing to him. " You're indicating that he won't be hurt by manny's lead left, i don't care who he hits with them, lead lefts from pacquiao will def. hurt. Cotto doesn't know how to "box", if he knows his power and body punching can doiminate an opponent than he'll go 200%. If that plan dosen't work out, he'll dance and shoe shine his way to a victory (mosley and clottey). Cotto is not fast enough to counter punch pacquaio (pacquiao spars with Amir Khan for pete's sake [not pete steward[ ), Cotto is not the best at tying up when he's hurt, and his defense can be spotty. I do see pacquiao utitlizing the uppercut in this match. Also, in regards to Roach, he's been spot in Manny's last two fights. I believe he said De la hoya would fall in 9 or 10 rounds, so he was a round short, and he said hatton would fall in 3 rounds, and he did. Don't underestimate the no-joke-coach-Roach. And Cotto has some bad habits too that he'll never fix, elbows are up showing the ribs, leaning forward, backing away with his hands down, not tying up when he's hurt. The only bad habit that will work in his favor is the flagrant fouling, expect a low blow or two, pacquiao better put some steel over his balls. Cotto's patented left hook will find the mark. Holler!
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 11:22:54 PM
Chef Boya-Lee grillin' crow!!!:
I got some crow for the Pacquiao victory, and only a teaspoon of crow for next week's matchup... very similar to shaquiao vs. de la hoya, big man vs. little man. chris john is waiting in the stands to call out the winner of the fight... and rocky juarez wants winner of that match up.. :)
Saturday Sep 12, 2009 11:25:38 PM
Salt lover@Mr.Lee:
I'm indicating he defends very well with lead left hands and he's not so prone to them like you people believe. He's a left handed fighter, who fights in the conventional way. He knows left handers very well. And about Pacquiao using uppercuts, I haven't seen him putting anybody away with them. What fight did you ever see him hurting or KO somebody with uppercuts? I already mentioned you plenty of examples; tell me what fight you'ver seen Cotto get easily hit with lead left hands and Pacquiao using uppercuts to do his work. And Cotto DOES know how to box. That he tends to fall in love with his power and forget his boxing sometimes, that's whole different story. But he knows how to box, and if you mentioned Shane Mosley, you must know very well he could box with Mosley. If he outboxed and countered Shane Mosley, he's more than enough box to do with Pacquiao. But anyways, the end of your comment shows me you're writing with your heart. You WANT Pacquiao to win after Cotto beat your Clottey. You're still upset about the June fight and became sour at Cotto ever since; that's why you're focusing only on his mistakes. It's doesn't matter what Cotto can do, you're only gonna find negative things about him. As for me, if Pacquiao does win, then definitely he''ll be an all time great in boxing history, and the De la Hoya doubts are cast away. And about Roach, he said Hatton was going down in 9, but still all trainers say their fighters will win. I don't care what trainers say.
Sunday Sep 13, 2009 07:12:41 AM
MisterLee is watching Chris John vs. Marquez...:
What's the hype? Marquez is obviously beating his A$$ after 2 rounds. Must have been a hometown decision! bring on john vs. may! :)
Sunday Sep 13, 2009 09:53:21 AM
Isaiah:
Radam, I'm really not being sarcastic at all. If you got to ever meet Sugar Ray Robinson or Joe Louis at anytime in their lives, your're truly blessed brother and that's a story you can tell with pride the rest of your life. Wow, I say I just might envy you a little. That is awesome to have ever met a couple of living legends. Unfortunatly, Joe Louis died about 2 years before I was born. The last all time "GREAT" that died in my lifetime was Willie Pep and then Archie Moore before that.
Sunday Sep 13, 2009 02:07:38 PM
Isaiah:
Yes MisterLee. Chris John vs. Marquez was very much a robbery. It's such bull the way boxing politics work sometimes.
Sunday Sep 13, 2009 02:11:21 PM
Fe'Roz :
It's all good Salt Lover. I'm a savory man myself. We all respect Cotto, I can assure you. Anyone who watched him futilely try to hurt Margarito with power shot after shot, only to fail courageously in the end, has to recognize him as one of the truest of warriors and among the great active fighters. Win or lose, MC comes to battle. That said, Mister Lee's points are more accurate than Cotto wish were the case. His flaws have not cost him yet but he has begun to manifest some of the wear and tear from fighting natural welters. His punches... many of which were bombs that landed flush. ... did not hurt Margarito nor did they do much to Clottey. More worrisome, the flaws Mister Lee referred to have been exacerbated by a noticible battle with fatigue (a word never mentioned in the same sentence as Manny) and a barely detectable but nascent slowing in general. That may have been fine for Jennings and Clottey, the latter being reluctant to throw and/or follow up when he did. But as we all know, Manny isn't going to wait. I think this breaks down to whether either man can take the other's punch and if so, who. If Manny can, Miquel will fall, either fast or certainly by decision if it goes to the cards. If Miquel can, then it again becomes a question of of whether Manny can. Because once the die is cast and the sixth round is past.... I see the the judge raising hand of the little man from the Land of the Many Islands. pc
Sunday Sep 13, 2009 05:43:56 PM
AFN:
Huh? Whadda miss???????? Oh ze fun ve haf. Toonoy
Sunday Sep 13, 2009 06:32:34 PM
#1 PacFan 11-1-1 Niners 1-0:
Yo Salt, if you think I'm writing Cotto off like an easy win then I'd suggest you go back and read some or my previous predictions in this fight. Has Cotto ever faced a fighter who leads with their left or right? I don't recall anyone he's faced having that weapon. The uppercut you said is true that Cotto is vulnerable to but Manny doesn't throw that often. Who knows Roach might implicate that punch. I've said before that Manny must hurt Cotto or be able to hurt Cotto or his chances at winning is slim. Since I know Manny hits just as hard or even harder than Marg(thats with bricks) then we have to use our common sense that he can. Atleast that's what Hollaway says. Cotto can box but can he box his way out of that left hand is what I'm asking? It's a lunging left hand remember and only Marquez was barely able to avoid it. Clottey didn't capitalize on Cotto being hurt, when Manny senses weakness he will finish you off. Now the one's defending Manny know what they're talking about and suggest you take notes.
Sunday Sep 13, 2009 08:39:00 PM
#1 PacFan 11-1-1 Niners 1-0:
@Salt, If Cotto can box as well as you think he can then Manny's in trouble. If Cotto tries to match punch per punch with him then he's in trouble. This fight will look like Manny facing Morales all over again. Now I'm not comparing Morales and Cotto or anything but I think their styles are similar. Both can exceptionally well who tends to be aggressive most of the time. This backs up my theory on why the lead left and the left hand straight is the key punch.
Sunday Sep 13, 2009 08:55:45 PM
Salt lover@#1Pacfan:
Hehehehehehe, all right man. I read you. It's cool you have your idol and he's on top and everything. But we can't do nothing but wait two more months from today. If Cotto can box Pacquiao's left cross, if he can counter-punch, if Pacquiao does have more power than Margarito, if Pacquiao will finish Cotto and win, those things will be answered. But like I said before, and most importantly, this fight will answer a lot of questions. I mean, the whole catchweight thing has brought Pacquiao more questions than good. If he beats Cotto, then there's no doubt about it, he's an all time great, and a fighter I'm gon' have to respect in the level as Muhammad Ali, Floyd, Robinson, Leonard, De la Hoya (In his prime, not in 2008, in his prime), Felix Trinidad, and so many others. But if he loses, then I was completely right from the get go. Let's see.
Sunday Sep 13, 2009 09:35:49 PM
#1 PacFan 11-1-1 in "09:
Good writings Salt, good company you put him in if he wins.
Sunday Sep 13, 2009 10:51:00 PM
Twenty three years later after they seconded Marvin Hagler and Ray Leonard in Las Vegas, Goody Petronelli and Angelo Dundee crossed paths again. This time, it was at Foxwoods. Photo/friend of TSS "The Iceman" John Scully reports there were only pleasantries exchanged. Goody didn't debate the split decision victory enjoyed by Leonard, which to this day Hagler disputes.