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| TSS U, what do you say? Think Jones/Hopkins 2 will occur? Weigh in! |
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I'd Be Shocked If Hopkins Ever Agreed To Fight Jones Again
By Frank Lotierzo
On February 22, 2005, I wrote a column for TSS entitled, "Hopkins Should Fight Taylor Now Or Never." It was on the heels of Hopkins making his 20th successful defense of his undisputed middleweight title over Howard Eastman. At the time everybody was saying Hopkins will deny his former adviser Lou DiBella's fighter a shot at the title. However, it seemed obvious to me Hopkins wanted to be the first fighter to hand DiBella's fighter his first pro defeat, therefore I was confident Taylor would be Hopkins' next opponent. Shortly after that column was posted, Hopkins-Taylor was announced.
A little over four years later Hopkins is sending signals out about another fight. Only it's doubtful this one will happen. The fight in question is Hopkins fighting a rematch with Roy Jones. Hopkins is one of the smartest fighters I've ever been exposed to. It's hard to conceive he'd take a fight that won't break the bank versus a fighter who is already one up on him. For that reason among others I'd be shocked if Hopkins ever agreed to fight Jones in the future.
Ever since Bernard Hopkins hung up on Roy Jones during the Calvin Murphy radio show a few weeks ago there's been chatter of a possible rematch between them taking place sometime in 2010. For now it's simmered down but don't be surprised if it starts up again. Neither Roy nor Bernard want to hang 'em up and there's not many worthwhile fights out there for them. It's hard to believe after their 1993 middleweight title bout won by Jones via a unanimous decision that they're both still around. Hopkins, who is four months shy of turning 45, is considered the top light heavyweight in the world with the possible exception of Chad Dawson. Jones, who will turn 41 the day after Hopkins turns 45, is considered one of the top five light heavyweights in the world at this time.
Frankly, Hopkins-Jones II (or Jones-Hopkins II) doesn't excite me. Putting their names together sounds and looks good on a theater marquee, but other than being a payday for each other, there's not much else there. Bernard and Roy have had remarkable careers and both are all-time greats. The fact that they're still considered viable says something about how well they've managed their career along with being a testament of how shallow the talent pool in boxing is between middleweight and light heavyweight. Sure, there's a super-middleweight elimination tournament about to begin, but Hopkins-Jones would out- draw any matchup it went up against matching two fighters from the tournament.
When Bernard and Roy fought in 1993, Roy was further along in his development than Bernard was despite Hopkins being 28 and having as many fights. At the time Jones had barely lost four rounds in his previous 21 fights. Hopkins won four of the 12 they fought. However, Jones' style and speed bothered Hopkins then and if they fight in 2010 it'll still be a big factor.
A rematch between them does nothing more than decide the bragging rights between them. Bernard was/is the better technician and he's tougher. Roy is faster and the better boxer. Hopkins has more to gain by beating Jones if they fought again because it would even the score between them. A loss by Jones wouldn't really hurt him because everyone knows his skills have diminished. On the other hand a win by Jones would probably be enough of a tie-breaker that may induce some historians to rate him the greater fighter of the two.
The talk of a Hopkins-Jones rematch is being kicked around because neither fighter has many options. And regardless of what anyone says they both can still fight at a very high level. One gets the feeling listening to them talk that Jones has less trepidation about making the fight than does Hopkins, the reason being Hopkins and Jones know styles and know who they do and don't match up with.
Roy knows he's vulnerable to a fighter who's a big puncher and lets his hands go. He knows better than anyone that Hopkins only fights in spurts and isn't nearly a big enough puncher to worry him. Hopkins knows the one thing that has troubled him at times during his career is speed. No, Jones isn't as fast as he once was but then again neither Hopkins. Bernard also knows he won't get many great shots at Jones. Add to that he doesn't have the power to turn the fight with one punch, it's a fight he'd rather not make unless the money is so great he just can't walk away from it.
During the discussion on the radio show Jones said he would be willing to do a purse split of 60% to the winner and 40% to the loser, and Hopkins said no. Then someone from the Calvin Murphy show injected that it be a winner take all, Jones said that's more in my favor and Bernard hung up. Jones reiterated many times during the radio show that Hopkins doesn't want any part of him. That may be true, but it's not because Jones is back to being anywhere close to the fighter he was circa 2002/2003. Hopkins hung up because he's now about getting as much money as he can or improving his legacy. Hopkins wouldn't fight former middleweight champ Rodrigo Valdez who is 63 years old now in a winner take all bout. So forget about him fighting Jones, who is a matchup problem for him unless it's for the kind of money that if he jumped off of it while it was piled up, he'd break his leg.
Last year Hopkins and Jones both fought and lost to Joe Calzaghe, a fighter whom both would've beat by decision prime versus prime. However, in 2008 I thought Hopkins made Calzaghe look like a sloppy amateur and scored the fight a draw. Seven months later Calzaghe gave Jones the worse beating of his career. Against a common opponent I'd feel safer betting on Hopkins to win than I would Jones. But head-to-head Jones has the style advantage and Hopkins knows it. In the main Jones would force Hopkins to lead and pursue the entire fight. At one time Hopkins was extremely versatile and could fight as the attacker or the counter-puncher, but that's no longer the case. Roy would force Bernard to use up half the round just to get off a few shots that Jones would counter with his faster hands from his natural style and positioning. This pattern that would probably carry him to a decision victory.
If Hopkins is leery about fighting Jones again it's all about fighting styles and money, not because Jones is almost back to what he once was. Actually, Roy is still shattered mentally from getting knocked out by Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson. Put him in with a fighter who can punch and Jones will fight not to get knocked out again just as he did versus Tarver in their rubber match.
That said, I'd be shocked if Hopkins agreed to fight Jones again.
Frank Lotierzo can be reached at GlovedFist@Gmail.com
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Real Talk :
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If Hopkins was goingto fight anybody it should be Roy. Beat him, close the book and walk away one of the GOAT. He doesn't have to because his Legacy is already cemented. Roy needs this fight more than Hopkins and Hopkins is probably like why you calling me now Roy after umpteenth years. Kind of like Mosley calling Mayweather. Dueces
Thursday Sep 3, 2009 03:36:57 PM
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Robert Curtis:
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I'd be happy to watch Hopkins and Jones fight again if they could agree on money. But they won't. I'd love to watch a pig fly or a cat swim the English Channel also.
Thursday Sep 3, 2009 03:39:56 PM
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in touch:
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I don't know why u think jones would so easily beat hopkins. Hopkins has looked far better than Jones in their last few fights. R u letting Jones' victory over Lacy misguide your judgment? And Omar Shieka? come on now. These are a couple of has beens that never really were. Meanwhile Hopkins dismantles Pavlik like nobody had and had a close encounter with Calzaghe... while Calzaghe tore apart Jones. Sure styles make fights. But Jones' speed is no faster than Hopkins' speed. And Hopkins is the better technician. Not saying that Hopkins would win hands down, but I am saying that either can win on any given night, with the edge (in my humble opinion) going to Hopkins. He's more consistent and sharper against better quality opponents.
Thursday Sep 3, 2009 03:56:41 PM
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deepwater:
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roy is spot on with the 60/40 split to the winner.hopkins is the one not stepping up.
Thursday Sep 3, 2009 04:00:05 PM
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deepwater:
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hopkins needs roy becouse roy has the win over him.
Thursday Sep 3, 2009 04:03:38 PM
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brownsugar:
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Jones is the one who has something to prove now,.. after embarassing himself with his half-ass,.. training,.. for the Calzaghe fight,... slap-boxing his fat beer buddies by the side of the fridge ("this is my daily ritual" a key part of my training regimen",..yeah right),.. guys coming in with wild game,.. fish,... and Roy eating the highest collesterol diet I've ever seen while doing low-impact dance steps,.. and sparring with the local AAU boys,.. I think he has regrets and has been trying to compensate with his last 2 fights and somehow has gotten himself into fighting shape,.. if he eliminates Green in impressive fashion,.. he may have come full circle into "real" contention status,.. Hopkins is just sitting atop the list with a ridiculous rating of 2nd or No#1 best lightheavyweight ranking in the world,... which is laughable since he hasn't fought any light heavyweights,....since he tried to use the referee against Calzaghe instead of just winning the old fashion way,.....throwing punches like Roach was screaming for him to do.....But Bhop is till the man,.. so let Jones pay his dues,.. if he really wants it,.. he'd fight Bhop for a peanut butter sandwich and bag of chips...
Thursday Sep 3, 2009 05:06:24 PM
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MisterLee:
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"Roy is faster and the better boxer." What does this phrase mean? I thought better technician = better boxer? I dunno, or does he mean roy is better at countering or picking his shots and finding angles? or just using his speed to be more of the typical "boxer type" vs. puncher or whtaever. I dunno. im interested in e-mailing F-lo himself, but 'fraid i'd get shot down by an awesome scholar. Anyway, love the article, great angle! Holler! :) :)
Thursday Sep 3, 2009 07:00:24 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Brownsugar:
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Roy's no dummy. He knows Peanut Butter is some choice protein. The bag of chips on the other hand.... he can pass them along to his buddies for their fish fry.
Thursday Sep 3, 2009 07:11:41 PM
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AFN struggling to keep up to date with anything, as life rushes by:
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That was a hard article to read Frankie Lo, I reckon you'd been on the rum. You had me confused after every paragraph as to who you were favouring, whether they were shot or still great, and who needed who more. My call, B-Hop by clear UD as Roy realises beating up Lacy doesn't equal beating up Pavlik. B-Hop should ditch this dance partner and begin prevoking Bad Chad (if he beats Johnson, which I think he will manage more clearly this time), for a much bigger pay day, and no loss of LEGEND status if he loses. TOONOY
Thursday Sep 3, 2009 08:02:31 PM
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brownsugar:
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Fe'Roz,..lol,.. I'm not getting on the Jones bandwagon untill I see something solid..like AFN says,.. maybe Bhop would be better served by taking on a LHWt champ
Thursday Sep 3, 2009 09:50:48 PM
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#1 PacFan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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What's the hold up? I'd pay to watch this fight. Long overdue rematch but atleast it's in the air. B-Hop out classed my boy Pavlik and Jones looked impressive in the last couple of fights. Make the fight happen. It seems to me that B-Hop at this stage of their careers can match in speed with Roy. I say it's a pick'em fight at this point and it will come down to preparation at the end. Make it happen.
Thursday Sep 3, 2009 11:22:59 PM
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Isaiah:
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Both men fight in spurts. Jones finally got a knockout again against nobody (the first since 2002 weakling Clinton Woods) Omar Sheika and Hopkins hasn't had a knockout since the 2004 De La Hoya disaster. This fight will go the distance. Hopkins will win the desicion and life will go on. In a sweet piece of irony, I bet Hopkins beats Jones this time 8 rounds to 4. Let this FINALLY be done and stick a fork in their hall of fame careers. They're done. Chad Dawson will carry on this division.
Thursday Sep 3, 2009 11:36:33 PM
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Radam G, a most humble PacManite:
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I'll also be shocked! It would not be business smart. Both fighters have lost the thunder to draw a large PPV crowd, thus it is no fat moola to be made in these two slickers fighting one another. Roy is now Duperman -- dupe da fanfaronades out of their money -- they are the only ones who will watch him, and Bernard is now B-not fightin' too much. Fight once every 18 months to two years. Holla!
Friday Sep 4, 2009 12:23:12 AM
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Matthew:
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I don't think there's a chance in hell that this fight gets made. We've heard this story for years; they're close to making a deal, but then one of them makes a ridiculous financial demand, and then the fight's off. If either one of these guys really wanted to make the fight happen, it would have happened by now. A win by either man over the other won't change their standing in history. Hopkins is an all-time great who could have been successful in any era. Jones is a not-quite-all-time great who often took the low-risk/high reward route and never had to handle adversity in his prime. Although he accomplished a lot, I think Jones' career can still be considered somewhat of a disappointment.
Friday Sep 4, 2009 07:47:50 AM
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Dan L - Straight from the 2-1-5 showing support for Philly's longest reigning champ - B-Hop:
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Look - Bernard did his thing at 160. He lost out to a young JT because he didn't strategize him right either time. He then did his thing at 175 and got *cough* robbed *cough* beat by Slappy Joe. Slappy retired rather than fight a post-Pavlik-win BHop. Bernard has only 3 moves right now - Adamek, winner of Glenn/Chad, or Roy. Roy will be easy money in my opinion. Question is how much gate/PPV/HBO $ is there?
Friday Sep 4, 2009 08:18:43 AM
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FightFanWest:
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I have a stomach ache Radam. You can't possibly be serious. How many different pseudonyms? You're at least a dozen I can think of. Unreal. It's all good though. The bottom line is this. Roy Jones schooled Hopkins the first time around, and he doesn't need to give this cat a rematch. He schooled him. Hopkins is retired. Period. Jones still means business. I've trained enough guys to know when I see motivation, and motivation is there for Jones. He'll wipe out Green and then take his show on the road again and bust up Adamek.
Friday Sep 4, 2009 01:06:59 PM
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Goddam Bitchin:
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Theres a nice rest home where the pair can get it on...wanna watch a proper fight then come to Europe. YAAAWWWWNN
Friday Sep 4, 2009 01:21:42 PM
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Radam G, a most humble PacManite at Jollibee in Manila eating sticky rice and duck:
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Cut the crap, FightFanWest! I'm legit from that $hit! And I'm no coward. I say what I will under one pseudonym -- "Radam G, a most humble PacManite." I don't need to be a clone, poser, posturer, fader and faker. I'm straight-up REAL! Been there! Done that! And at the top of the world as an amateur and professional. When I get old and with grandkids and greatgrands, I won't have to lie about being jack. And I will not be saying that I coulda, woulda and shoulda been a contenda! "I coulda had class! I coulda been somebody." My fight name, moves and performances will be in the history books and history cyberspace sites. Stomachache on, but not because of Radam! "You can't possibly be serious." Holla!
Friday Sep 4, 2009 03:38:04 PM
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MisterLee:
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"Look - Bernard did his thing at 160. He lost out to a young JT because he didn't strategize him right either time. He then did his thing at 175 and got *cough* robbed *cough* beat by Slappy Joe. Slappy retired rather than fight a post-Pavlik-win BHop. Bernard has only 3 moves right now - Adamek, winner of Glenn/Chad, or Roy. Roy will be easy money in my opinion. Question is how much gate/PPV/HBO $ is there?" Yo Dan L, from Philly, this is misterLee representing the 301 and 202 baby (east coast!), you must be smokin' some of that coconut blaze! You forgot a couple things in between: like going straight up two divisions and beating tarver, outboxing winky wright, losing a close match to calslappy, and then beating the undisputed middleweight champion. Dude in his 40's and repping for real. Okay, and in case YA'LL Musta forgot! ROY JONES GOT KNOCKED TFO by Tarver and Glen Johnson, BHop knocked out Glen Johnson in the 90's, and he beat up and gave tarver a knockdown. so bhop has defeated two of RJJ's conquerors, and fought the third to a close and competitive decision. So remember your history and put on ur reading glasses. Bhop rules. Tss rules! Holler!
Friday Sep 4, 2009 08:30:17 PM
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Isaiah:
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I don't care what anyone says. In the end, Hopkins career just rates higher then Jones. Hopkins knew when he got older that he needed a style to adjust. Jones thought he could forever dominate everybody with speed. It cost Jones ranking in history badly and in return Hopkins has yet to take even a medium sized beating. Both are all time greats, but Hopkins will rate higher and just for nostalgic feelings, maybe this rematch should FINALLY happen. It probaly never will though. By the way, Joe Calzaghe beat Hopkins fair and square, as close as it was...
Friday Sep 4, 2009 09:44:45 PM
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JONES VS B HOP:
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Hey mister how come B -hop won't fight Chad dawson..or you musta forgot B hop turned down rematch with with Glen Johnson...And you musta forgot B - hop beat Glen right when just got into boxing ..And you musta forgot Tarver came down from 215 after making a rocky movie to fight B hopo ..you musta for Misterlee B hop is scared of glen johnson and Jones
Saturday Sep 5, 2009 12:08:22 PM
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MisterLee @ mustaforgot:
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What about winky wright? Do you got any points of your own, or are you just someone who likes to contradict other pple's statements? You did not your own point in 5 wasted lines. Pc out!
Saturday Sep 5, 2009 04:21:33 PM
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MisterLee:
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Did not MAKE your own point.
Saturday Sep 5, 2009 04:22:03 PM
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MisterLee:
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Also to make any statement like JT is anywhere NEAR Bhop's level is ludacrous. Bhop defended his middleweight title about 20 times, losing only to RJJ in 1993. JT defended his title like, what 3-4 times before getting knocked the fudge out? Bhop conquers the guy who beat JT twice (Pavlik), moves on and beats winky, tarver. JT's only tru shining moment was having Bhop's number, as I feel winky wright beat him, and he couldn't finish off pavlik nor froch in the early rounds. Abraham will make him go bye-bye! holler!
Saturday Sep 5, 2009 05:40:41 PM
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steve:
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What a load of rubbish. Calzaghe whoops Hopkins at anytime in their careers - remember Cazlaghe wasn't in his prime either when he fought Hopkins and if Calzaghe had fought him back when he could still bang and his hands weren't messed up then it's goodnight BHop. Remember it was Hopkins who ducked out of a Calzaghe fight 6 yrs earlier by doubling his demands after everything had been agreed. Jones would've been a different matter - he would give anybody trouble but I still beleive Calzaghe would've given him trouble himself whoever would've won.
Sunday Sep 6, 2009 03:46:11 AM
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@mister:
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winky wright came all the way down from jr middle weight and yet you fail to say anything about glen johnson ..face B hop is scared to fight jones and glen johnson i already know you hate RJJ ...beating pavlik means nothing when carl froach beat JT to..b- hop lost to that bum J taylor 2 times .wanna know else who beat johnson..Merqui sosa..a jones victim...Joseph Kiwwanuka a chavez victim at welterweight Syd vanderpool Omar sheika derrick harmon a jones victim julio ceasar gonzalez a jones victim clinton woods a jones victim so why won't B-hop fight dawson or glen johnson .........
Sunday Sep 6, 2009 04:57:28 PM
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Anony:
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THEY SHOULD FIGHT. PERIOD . LONG OVERDUE. 50-50 SPLIT. NO EXCUSES. GET IT DONE. REGULAR HBO.
Sunday Sep 6, 2009 09:06:45 PM
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MisterLee:
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Yo _____ / Musta forgot, guy with no name, look, first Winky wright didn't come DOWN from jr. middle, he went up, second, he fought taylor at middleweight, so he was already a middleweight when he fought bhop, what's an extra 5-8 lbs? I actually don't hate RJJ, so thanks for putting the words in my mouth. I dunno what's up with glen johnson so i can't say. Your train of thought is all over the place man. why are you naming a bunch of nobodies that jones beat? We know both of them are old now, so they'll have a tendency to avoid slick, younger, and faster and busier boxers b/c they give older boxers a hard time like calzaghe and dawson, and probably even jean pascal). Bhop is not unique in this fact, jones is the same way, except Bhop is like #4 on the p4p list, Bhop is fought top level compeition in the last 2-3 years (jones has fought c fighters), jones priced himself out of their negotiation 3-4 years ago ("60-40 and i'll whoop yo' a$$!" "Roy, let's split it 50-50" "60-40 and i'll whoop yo' a$$!" ) Bhop is obviously the bigger draw b/c jones is trying to bend on his side to make it work b/c he knows the ball is in bhop's court. So i still don't understand what point you're making. Froch beat JT, bhop lost to him twice, does that mean froch can beat bhop? ever heard "styles make fights", or were you born yesterday? Aight man, this is useless talking to a jones nuthuggers. They never follow a logical progression of arguments, just like any other nuthuggers: margarito, mayweather. Either you sweat their nuts, or you're branded a "hater" b/c you're a skeptical/critical fan. *sigh* Andre ward is my favorite boxer of all time, and i'm not about to make things up about him and his record or his competition in order to be in his school girl-groupy fan club. Andre Ward 2009!
Monday Sep 7, 2009 09:03:33 AM
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MisterLee:
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"beating pavlik means nothing " Hahah.. that's ridiculous. Pavlik was the undisputed middleweight champion, a powerhouse, and undefeated, and you think handing him his first loss at age 43 means nothing? haha... he beat JT twice remember? So if i follow your train of thought, if beating pavlik means nothing, then losing to JT twice means nothing? That beating omar sheika and jeff lacy is more impressive than beating pavlik and winky wright? Most ridiculous comments coming from a nuthugger. Have a nice day!
Monday Sep 7, 2009 09:16:09 AM
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Rocko :
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With they way things are with the economy, lack of any true superstars in Boxing, and the crap that goes on with Golden Boy, [re Malaganni fight], Don King, to many to list over the years, and Arum. I think anytime you can get fighters of their caliber to "throw hands" at one another is a good thing. Both have enough connections to insure a somewhat fair fight and they both have enough in the tank regardless of styles to make a good show. I would like to see a card that also pits former boxers that now are MMA fighters on the card rather than hacks . It would likely be PPV and if they bring it in at less than $30.00 , more like $25.00 it should pull very well and do fine. People like MMA and Hoppy and Jones still have the firepower albiet limited. Mix it with some serious MMA, Ray Mercer vs Lesnar and you got something!!!
I should have been a promoter, LOL...Rocko
Tuesday Sep 8, 2009 08:44:53 AM
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MisterLee @ anony:
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55-45, or even 51-49, as long as bhop makes a bit more which shows he's the more important and relevant fighter in this era. Bhop should have nothing to be afraid of, but really it's a waste of his time, jones is a has-been. Pc out!
Tuesday Sep 8, 2009 10:25:05 AM
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Is It Only Money That Matters?
"Who refuses to take a drug test worth $40 million?" For the American psyche, money is everything. It transcends what is right or what is wrong. For a certain amount of money, I'll do anything. Manny is Filipino, and he cannot fathom that kind of thinking. Is that what capitalism should be? I can't understand why $40 million should dictate your personality. Simply put, Pacquiao has his own dignity and refuses to be manipulated into taking $40M and giving his (butt) to anyone who wants it." ---TSS reader "Tony" informs readers of a possible cultural difference which causes certain peoples to interpret Pacquiao's refusal to cater to Mayweather's testing demands (photo by Chris Cozzone)
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