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Tuesday Sep 1, 2009

Like all infatuations, Toledo's with Jones waned. But a spark has been reignited. A sliver of that ardor has been awakened.

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Me and Mr. Jones

By Springs Toledo

….we got a thing goin’ on…

The first time I laid eyes on Roy Jones Jr. was on NBC’s Sportsworld. It was a Sunday afternoon twenty years ago and Jones was fighting the “Stormin’ Mormon” Ron Amundsen, a club fighter with a respectable record of 16-1-1. By the second round, my curiosity about Jones had turned to amazement. By the fourth, amazement became infatuation. I was in love with his fighting style. Amundsen tried as valiantly as the next thirty-one men Jones would face, and like those thirty-one men, he never had a chance.

The wave of public support Jones surfed after the 1988 Olympics crested early. After several professional bouts, Roy Jones was being called “the best kept secret in boxing. His exposure to eager fans was dimming in step with the refusal of his father –also his manager, promoter, and trainer to allow his son to face a fighter who wasn’t a has-been, a never-was, or a not-as-advertised. In the summer of 1990 Jones made quick work of a “Derwin Richards” whose record of 18-1 turned out to be as fraudulent as his name. The opponent was actually Tony Waddles. His actual record was 0-2. Many began to look askew at a talent that was evidently being wasted. The executives at NBC took note and terminated his contract early. Roy Jones Sr. proved immune to the criticism. After all, Jones was barely 21 years old in 1990 and the objective was to groom him for greatness, not throw him to the lions. Big Roy pointed to Andrew Maynarda gold medalist from the 1988 Olympics who turned professional, was managed by Sugar Ray Leonard, and was as hot as Jones. But Maynard was rushed. A few weeks before Jones fought the fraud, Andrew Maynard got knocked out by Bobby Czyz. His career never recovered.

The Percy Harris bout was Jones’ first appearance on HBO –and his second without his father as manager. In fifteen seconds Jones landed an overhand right that sent Harris, a ranked contender, down in sections. Harris spent four rounds about as upright as a man atop a raft on a stormy sea. It was over before the fifth. Charley Burley, perhaps the greatest of history’s uncrowned champions had died only weeks before at the age of 75… or had he? Jones’ blazing, feinting, springing, blasting unorthodoxy was so eerily similar to Burley’s style I thought voodoo was afoot.  

Six months later Jones stepped into the ring against Bernard “The Executioner” Hopkins.

Hopkins was a twenty-eight year old middleweight and already a full-blown technician. He was far more aggressive then than now, though he was shy about engaging Jones, perhaps realizing that Jones’ had a penchant for pole axing rambunctious opponents. Hopkins made the mistake of standing off and boxing Jones instead of neutralizing his speed with aggression. He may as well have been trying to catch a hornet with chopsticks. He lost 116-112 on all three official cards. Hopkins would not lose again for a dozen years but this loss had much to do with his obscurity for the next decade. He toiled and boiled in the shadow of his conqueror. The experience wasn’t without benefits because Hopkins realized that being a technician without a strategy was akin to an engineer without a blueprint. That knowledge, conspicuously absent in his most important fight, is still serving him well in middle age. Jones stayed busy, made a trinket defense against Thomas Tate and then stepped up for the most serious challenge of his career.

James “Lights Out” Toney (44-0-2) was boxing’s angriest super middleweight, a thug with a hair-trigger temper and an eating disorder that would eventually see him swell-up to Pillsbury proportions as a heavyweight. A complicated study, he also had a master’s degree in the Sweet Science, with a slipping and sliding style sophisticated enough to check even the veteran Mike McCallum. Launched into stardom by a left hook that put stars in the eyes of Michael Nunn and took the stars out of the eyes of Nunn’s Hollywood backers, Toney was coming off a career-best performance against former light heavyweight champion Prince Charles Williams. This high-risk challenge was a tune-up for Toney. It didn’t matter. Jones had an easy night. By moving away from Toney’s right, leading with left hooks instead of jabs, and destroying his timing, Jones made Toney look like Charlie Brown. The gulf on the scorecards was wider than it was in the Hopkins fight.

With this win, Roy Jones Jr. was crowned king of boxing and I won a gentlemans bet.

…we both know that it’s wrong…

King Roy became known as “Reluctant Roy” in the mid 1990s. It wasn’t undeserved. In 1992, Roy was in a rush to make up for lost time. In 1995 he changed his mind. According to a source whose reliability is a mystery, Jones demanded $3 million to fight Michael Nunn, who would earn a paltry $125,000. Avoiding real challenges became even less disguised.

Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank, Steve Collins, and Frankie Liles were all active super middleweights circa 1994-1996. Like Jones, they had titles. Benn was a titlist from 1992 until March 1996, Steve Collins took Chris Eubanks’ title in March 1995 and held it until he retired in 1997; Frankie Liles had his title from August 1994 until 1999. The Ring rated them and Jones in the top five during that two year window. Jones was at his peak at 168, had a belt, and yet never sought to unify the title. He was the superstar, he called the shots, but he didn't fight them. Not one of them. Armed with an HBO contract that guaranteed millions regardless of whom he fought, Jones fought an assortment of secondary contenders and municipal workers.

Collins and Liles were both trained by Freddie Roach. Roach tried to set up fights with Jones but his calls were not returned. After Collins turned thirty-years old, he became twice the fighter he was, grew a goatee and dubbed himself the “Celtic Warrior.” Dangerous enough to defeat Eubank and Benn twice by the end of 1996, he had a shillelagh with Jones’ name on it. When Jones cruised to a stoppage of a 39-year old moonlighting police officer, Collins defiantly climbed into the ring. As Larry Merchant was interviewing Jones, Collins said “I’m here, Roy.” Merchant ignored Collins but apologized to the HBO audience for the sorry fight. “I always thought Jones was chinny,” Collins told Boxing Monthly, “From the way he fought, Jones himself knew, if he got caught flush, he’d go, and shied away from certain scenarios in the ring.

Some critics will tell you that Jones had already revealed a pattern of avoidance, that the early termination of his contract with NBC was merely the opening act to a career where maximum gain would be sought for minimum risk. They overlook the fact that Jones heard this criticism before, fired his father, and soon afterwards faced down two all-time greats in Hopkins and Toney. Yet the question remains, why didn’t Jones face the iron at super middleweight after 1994?

The answer is found in the aftermath of the Nigel Benn-Gerald McClellan war on February 25, 1995. This bout happened only four months after Jones-Toney and ended in tragedy. McClellan slipped into a coma and emerged from it blind, almost completely deaf, brain damaged, and in a wheelchair. Jones and McClellan were amateur rivals (McClellan holds a Golden Gloves victory over Jones) and Jones shared a bond with him that only ring rivals can understand. He will not visit McClellan until he retires, though he has donated generously to the McClellan trust fund. Jones was haunted by what happened for years. He became less willing to hurt anyone and less willing to get hurt himself. “I don’t need to [visit Gerald]. It would make me quit boxing,” he once said. Glory began to taste too much like blood so he began to distract himself with safer pursuits like rap music and basketball. If I fought like I was looking for a place in history,” Jones said in an interview with Esquire in 2003, “it would ruin me as a person.”

His entry into the light heavyweight ranks was not the stuff of legend. His first challenger was Mike McCallum who was three weeks shy of his 40th birthday. His next bout was against Montell Griffin. Eddie Futch, the 10-1 underdog’s chief second, had done his homeworkprobably in the same yellowing notebook where he deconstructed the undefeated Ali on behalf of Joe Frazier and Ken Norton and the undefeated Evander Holyfield on behalf of Riddick Bowe. Like Stevie Collins, Futch saw clues to Jones’s psychology in his style that suggested an unusual fear of getting hit, so he instructed Griffin to feint and bull him. Jones was not comfortable, ended up losing by disqualification, and old Eddie Futch ruined another perfect record.

Boxing aficionados still talk about the body shot that caved in Virgil Hill’s ribs. What is less remembered is the fact that Jones refused to fight Hill as late as 1996. Hill lost his belts to the undefeated Dariusz Michalczewski in 1997 and suddenly Jones signed …to fight the loser. Michalczewski was the linear light heavyweight champion from the moment his hand was raised in victory over Hill, but instead of fighting him to assert dominance Jones was content to scavenge his vacated trinket belts.

Then the ghost of Bob Fitzsimmons, a middleweight champion who ascended to the heavyweight throne, blew a trumpet across a century and all doubt turned to dust. Roy Jones Jr. completely dominated John Ruiz despite being outweighed by thirty pounds. The heavyweight titlist charged Jones in the first round, and a shoot-out at the end of it saw Ruiz clinching Jones after the smaller man landed the bigger shots. He charged less in the next three rounds, and after a flush right made his knees knock, Ruiz, like Hopkins and Toney, fought Jones as if Jones was King Kong.

Antonio Tarver was no Fay Wray but he rained down shots like the air force. When Tarver became a number one-ranked contender in the light heavyweight division, Jones’ manager, Murad Muhammad wrote a letter questioning Tarver’s credentials to be number one. Read between the lines. Jones didn't want to face Tarver –and didn't for three years. There is a pattern here that raises an eyebrow. Jones allegedly priced himself way out of a Michael Nunn fight. He didn't fight fellow super middleweight titlist Frankie Liles although he held close wins over him in the amateurs. Then he tried to block Tarver, a fellow Floridian, from challenging him for the title in the light heavyweight division. Now ask yourself what these three had in common: All three were tall southpaws with skill.

The first bout with Tarver was competitive, and I saw no controversy in Jones’ winning. Tarver did. During the pre-fight instructions of the rematch, Tarver lobbed an unforgettable shot across the bow: “I got a questionyou got any excuses tonight, Roy?” The lanky southpaw would leave room for none after a left hand rendered superman semi-conscious and the fight was stopped in the second round. Mortality beckoned closer in his next fight. Glen Johnson went straight at Jones with hooks and malevolence, never allowing the stylist to dictate the pace. In the ninth round, a horizontal Jones looked like he was dead.

By then, my infatuation with Roy Jones had long since ended. Nine years stood as a gulf between the great victories over James Toney and John Ruiz, and those weren’t nearly enough to justify the dim-bulb comparisons between Jones and Sugar Ray Robinson tossed around by myopic commentators. Ruiz, I believed at the time, was just a plumper cherry picked from a tree in the meadow of Jones’ casual career and once Jones was finally tested by two skilled and gritty fighters, he was ruthlessly exposed. Roy Jones a warrior? I perished the thought.

 

…but it’s much too strong to let it go now

I was wrong. Roy Jones is a warrior. He began to prove it the moment he fought and survived Antonio Tarver in their third argument. Most civilians get bit by a dog once and get the jitters around a Pekinese –not Jones; he was knocked out twice and returned seeking to avenge one of them at thirty-six years old. That’s courage.

The embers of my dormant feelings glowed.

This champion’s comeback is more impressive when you look closer. Roy was never a technician despite the common error of many analysts who claim otherwise. Jones was however among the greatest pure athletes to ever grace the ring. He had timing, rhythm, flash, and demon speed backed up by shocking power. His leaping left hook needed no microphone to pick up the THWAP. But there’s a cost to such gifts: athletes like Jones typically have shorter primes than technicians; the latter of which are less dependent on the powers of youth. Amazingly, Jones hasn’t even made any substantive changes to his style. He’s a step or three slower but still showboating, still shooting from the hip, and yet had enough left to drop Joe Calzaghe in the first round. And just in case anyone is left who believes that he fears punchers, he thoroughly tamed Jeff “Left Hook” Lacy –with his hands down.

Next up is Danny “The Green Machine” Green, a cruiserweight.

Jones has an illuminating message for Green: “I’ve got something to prove.” Indeed. Old Jones is raging against the dying of the light. He is on redemption’s path, rebuking critics (like me) who accused him of avoiding dangerous fighters during his prime and perhaps, just perhaps, performing private penance for doing exactly that. As the conclusion of his career draws near, I’ll be watching –an old fan, a new fan, a critic with baited breath.

 

We gotta be extra careful

that we don’t build our hopes up to high

because he’s got his own obligations

and so, and so, do I

Me and Mr. Jones…

 

 

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brownsugar:  another phenomenal article,.. and to well researched to argue with,.. and without sounding biased,... and the song,... priceless.....
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 05:08:23 PM
Joseph:  Let me start out by saying, I'm a sports reporter and columnist. I have been in journalism nine years, and this is the type of article that gives the profession a bad name. How do you not even mention the weight loss and the determental affects it had on his body? When you lose massive amounts of fat, let alone muscle, it thins the lining of the brain. Jones could have been killed by losing all of that weight. It's funny how people say he avoided the top fighters, but the truth is, when Roy was in his prime, no one in the history of boxing was going to beat him. Period. He's the greatest fighter ever on tape. Compare his skills against anyone. You can't say its just his pure athletic ability because plenty of athletes don't accomplish half of what he has done. People need to really study before they write things that people might base their opinions off of. I challenge anyone to show me someone that could have beat Roy at any of the weight classes he fought at. How do you go 50+ fights and never get hurt, go up to heavyweight, win the title and come down and be a totally different fighter, and not have it be because of the extreme weight. Roy was having trouble keeping that weight off in 2006 and his body didn't come back down until normal until he went to 169 1/2 to beat Tito. By then he had changed his style to make up for less of a work rate, but as soon as his father came back and his body settled down you have now started to see who he really is again. Roy threw a 17 punch combo in six seconds against Jeff Lacy. That is much more about Roy than the opponent. Because honestly, when Roy has stamina he's unbeatable. Against Johnson and Tarver he had no stamina and could not take a punch because of the weight loss. Against Calzaghe he lost, but it was not the pummelling that was rumored to happen. He landed the better punches until the cut happened and honestly, most of Calzaghe's punches just had the appearance of landing. I wish everyone watched a flight in slow motion twice before making an opinion, because things do really look different when you slow them down. I'm not hating on you Springs. A lot of people might like this. But coming from a true professional, you need to study this if you going to put your name on it.
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 05:35:02 PM
Peter Allen:  Roy fought like a straight coward against Tarver in the third fight and was in survival mode and then made the all time worst excuse ever saying he didn't fight because he didn't want his father to get credit. He beats a corpse in Jeff Lacey and now you want to give him props. Please. Tell him to fight Glenn Johnson again and watch what happens.
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 05:45:54 PM
donputo69 gambling in A.C:  the world demands a roy jones vs ivan calderon....hey...its only fantasy boxing...so relax....lol...74 days till cotto vs pacquiao....yep...im counting the days....holla back!!!
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 05:54:46 PM
Radam G, a most humble PacManite:  Wow! Fightwriter S-To, you sprung a masterpiece! Nice, long copy. Yup! With RJJ it use to be like: "Up in da sky, it's a PLANE, It's a JET!" NO! It's is just Superman Roy in that squared jungle leaping in a single bounce and whupping a$$! Now it is: Up in da ring, It's trialhorse, It's a clown! NO! It's just Duperman Roy! He is just duping all the fanfaronades out of their hard-earned money hoping wanting to see the great of yesteryears. I say: Go, ROY! They pay, you play! These fools act like they have money to burn for an illusion of seeing what was. Give it to 'em, ROY! Get Paid! Because one day in that grave, we are all going to get laid. Have fun doing what you do. And luvin' it! Holla!
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 06:24:38 PM
ali:  Its olny 18 more days before Mayweather vs Marquez yep im counting the days whats up DONPUTO69 I hope your boy Cotto can come away with a win so my boy Mayweather can be the first to beat him without cheating.
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 07:41:06 PM
Real Talk:  Like Biggie say ...an another one !!! Holla holla holla haaaaa~~~~ dueces
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 08:03:51 PM
dp69 @ali:  lmfao....too bad that fight its not gonna happen...here's why....scareweather is gonna beat the canvas kisser, and cotto is gonna ko pacquiao....cotto would agree to fight fraud scareweather....but scareweather "WITH NO COJONES" would retire again....just like he did a couple of years ago when cotto, margacheato, mosley and williams were after her....ooops....him....but to be honest....all jokes aside....i hope scareweather would man up and fight cotto....and you know cotto never backs down from anyone....and thats a fact....oooohhhh....and one more thing....when scareweather comes out of retirement the second time around, he would callout vic darchinyan.....mark it down....you heard it here first....holla back!!!
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 08:10:15 PM
Johnny A. @ Joseph:  Joseph the journalist bashes toledo and then writes" the truth is, when Roy was in his prime, no one in the history of boxing was going to beat him. Period. He's the greatest fighter ever on tape." --oh please. someone needs to get this guy to the doctor. jones was great, but joseph is in outer space with that post. he worships roy jones but doesnt know his boxing history very well.
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 08:23:27 PM
Joseph :  Johnny, I worship Jesus, not Roy Jones Jr or anyone or anything else. You tell me who was more skilled and who could have beat him. The only thing that stopped Roy was his pride. He thought he could lose all of the weight without consquence. Tarver and Johnson were merely sent to humble him.
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 08:52:27 PM
Anony @ Joseph:  Just one question... what exactly is your critic? Mr. Kimball did massive research portraying Jones career here and the feeling that I get as "a normal reader" is that this is well thought and structured. I believe you ask Roy Jones what he thinks about this article and he will be pleased. So.... "Joseph"... I guess you are the one with a problem... and your audience since they have to put up with your judgement and your WRONG point of view. GREAT ARTICLE MR. KIMBALL!!!
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 09:00:44 PM
ali @ donput 69:  Hey the boy Mayweather has always been the smaller man in his fights. You can't say he was a bigger man against Hatton cause Hatton came in the Pros at 140 & Mayweather was at 130. Marquez is the only smaller guy he is going to fight. Yeah your right Cotto don't back down from no one but if he beats Pac he should be smart and take the easier fight with Shane then mess with the Money May. One last thing the next time Mayweather retires he will have wins over Marquez, Pac, Cotto and Mosley and that will leave no doubt about who the best fighter this decade.
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 09:44:11 PM
Fe'roz:  Roy Jones Jr was so uniquely dynamic, so unimaginably fast and so explosively destructive that, Mike Tyson aside, he may have been the only fighter since that you watched just to see HIM..... regardless of who he did or did not fight. He is, if not one of the great talents of our lifetime, certainly one of the most entertaining. A Jones fight was a beating waiting to happen. It was never a question if..... but how he whooped his opponent. All were outclassed. Most were laid waste. Many simply overwhelmed. A few flat out humiliated. But one thing they all shared: they lost in style. Roy's. I miss the great RJJr. The RJ that chose history (the HW trinket) over long term health and longevity. Now speaking of flash, when Floyd gets past JMM ....and if... and that's a very big if.... Cotto doesn't follow Ricky to Wonderland, I see Floyd finishing what Manny will have started........ tenderizing and serving Miquel up just in time for next years parade in June here in NYC.
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 09:50:31 PM
ali @ Joseph:  I agree with you 100% that was some great writing I could'nt have said it any better. P4P in his prime nobody around his weight class was better you don't go 50-0 and bearly lose a round what fight has ever done that not one give it up for Roy Jones.
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 09:59:58 PM
ali @ FeRoz:  Well said!! that why your one favorite writers on TSS you always make great points.
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 10:05:20 PM
dp69 @ali:  yo...youre a funny dude....if that was the case, fraud should of been done with those cats a long time ago...he would of been set....BUT NOOOOOOOO....he decided to fight bruseles, baldomir, over the hill dlh, fatton, and the late gatti...R.I.P...even though he was washed up at the time...so please....dont ever say that these guys that i mention are way better than cotto, cheato, mosley or williams...the competition was there....and he never took it....holla back!!!
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 10:13:24 PM
Isaiah:  I just wanted to say Mayweather having turned pro at 130 is as irrelevant as Pacman turned pro at 106. Your body grows and becomes more comfartable at a higher weight. Mayweather versus Hatton shouldn't have been made and I have nothing to personally to say good about Mayweather outside of his outstanding boxing skills. Also, in his rime Roy Jones was awesome too, but his prime is long gone.
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 10:15:15 PM
Fe'ROZ @ ali:  With all due respect, Manny will see you and raise you: He's already holding multiple wins (three pairs) over prime Morales, Barrera, and Marquez, plus decisive wins (high cards) against de la Hoya and Hatton. Floyd has victories over Oscar and Shane, and Hatton. I think he is holding JMM. But Cotto and Manny are, or the moment, still in the deck. So until I see him call them, lay down his cards and fight one or both of them ....and then beat them,... I say he's bluffing. pc
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 10:18:24 PM
Smiley C:  Cotto loses to Pacquiao. Fo' sure!
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 11:32:18 PM
Isaiah:  Hate to get you on a technicallity Fe'ROZ because you make a lot of sense, but Floyd never beat Shane. You are talking about Sugar Shane Mosley, right? Everyone should also know by now that I am a huge Manny fan and put him way higher then Floyd unless Floyd can finally find the guts to face him. Heck, Little Manny is well on his way to fighting more legit welterweights then Floyd has and that's just sad.
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 11:41:41 PM
brownsugar:  I'd put even money on roy beating hopkins again...
Wednesday Sep 2, 2009 01:35:16 AM
Isaiah:  This is a different time now. Hopkins is still an elite warrior and Jones is just too far past his best. Hopkins would win the rematch hands down.
Wednesday Sep 2, 2009 02:26:20 AM
mortcola:  Brilliant article. Toledo, you once again analyze your way past, through, and around the cliches. RJJ was a supreme athlete and a technically limited fighter at the same time. His movement, defense, punching technique, and tactics made little boxing sense...but this didn't matter as long as he had the supremacy of speed and control. Once that was gone, he was as vulnerable as, in his heart, he knew he was. The Lou DelValle knockdown - the way it happened, the way RJJ responded - was the clincher for me. RJJ is more interesting, more human because of it. The Sugar Ray Robinson comparisons were always laughable and annoying. "Greatest" was never the point. Erratum: Calzaghe was knocked down by a flush forearm, not a punch.
Wednesday Sep 2, 2009 07:03:02 AM
ali @ FeRoz:  Morales was not in his prime the third time he fought him but Pac has some good wins over some damn good fighters I'll give him that. I say this if Floyed has'nt fought nobody then why most boxing people considered him P4P #1 before he retired. They was'nt saying Pac is #1 P4P and he had some great wins under his belt at that time can you please explain that.
Wednesday Sep 2, 2009 08:36:08 AM
ali @ Isaiah:  Why should'nt Hatton and Mayweather have been made I hope you ain't say cause Hatton fought at 140 and Mayweather at 147. Hatton get as big as 185 by him having to get all the way down to one 140 was'nt doing his body any good. I think at 147 it did'nt drain his body as much and that's why he was doing pretty good in the early rounds. Mayweather is not a big guy he weigh 150 in odh fight stop bring up size cause we already knows that $hit really don't mean nothing.
Wednesday Sep 2, 2009 08:46:25 AM
Earl Todd:  Roy Jones is a disgrace. His HOF credentials have been flushed down the proverbial toilet. He ducked and dodged all the elite fighters from Clinton's 1st term until Mr. Mediocrity Antonio Tarver obliterated him. So many people were so excited after Jones beat a pudgy Tito Trinidad, proclaiming he was back. Unreal. I have some waterfront property in the desert to sell you. REMEMBER the 3rd Tarver fight, where Jones' only goal was to "finish 12 rounds on his feet"?? Boxing is one of the easiest sports to bet on, because die-hard fans can't separate their allegiance to a fighter from reality. I made a bundle when Calzaghe thrashed him. I have no problem with Jones fighting on. Free country. But, he's a dead-end fighter with absolutely no chance against any elite fighter. No chance at all. His legacy will be defined as much by his ducking every significant challenge in the 90's as it will be his utter collapse as a fighter since 2003.
Wednesday Sep 2, 2009 10:05:34 AM
Joel @ ali:  Floyd was 1st on the P4P list by default. Remember, Hopkins lost and PacMan had twice been KO'd in the 3rd round against woeful opposition. Jermain Taylor put him there when he beat B-Hop. PacMan got knocked cold by two taxi drivers, and that's why he wasn't #1. IMO, the P4P title is VACANT.
Wednesday Sep 2, 2009 10:29:09 AM
ez da fez:  To quote Floyd Joy Senior, "Roy Jones is a glass chinned bum." That may be a bit hyperbolic, but that's how i feel about joseph's comment which I find a little insulting. I would take almost the full crop of all time great middles like hagler, robinson, the ones who could hit to knock roy into next week. i would've taken hopkins, the one who koed trinidad, to bully roy into a corner after learning from the mistakes he made when he was still too green in their first fight, to torment him and make him scream like max smelling did in historic rematch with joe louis. i would pick bob foster to make roy eat his fist, and don't get me started on the heavies. we all know what would have happened if roy fought a true heavy weight champ. in the end, i call roy a great talent, who too me is the best pound for pound disappointment of recent years. if only he too a page from oscar's book and tried to make the best fights over and over again which is what the fans want more than a mere showman. i hope floyd jr, learns from roy's mistakes while he is still young enough to set his career straight if he wants a pound for pound legacy. manny is truly carrying the torch of the sport.
Wednesday Sep 2, 2009 11:33:07 AM
ali @ Joel :  Once again you don't know what the hell your talking about Pac was'nt even in the top 5 around that time and Roy Jones was number one then he lost. Then Hopkins was #1 until he lost to Taylor like you said that made Mayweather #1. Look most of the time when fighter become #1 P4P is because the top guy loses or retires cause there not in the same weight class to fight one another. Pac became number #1 because Floyed retired I don't here you saying that was because of defult.
Wednesday Sep 2, 2009 11:42:26 AM
Smiley C:  Wow! Somebody is writing in different pseudonyms again. Fo' sure!
Wednesday Sep 2, 2009 12:23:29 PM
Johnny A. @ Joseph:  Joseph, you claim to be a christian but your original post was unnecessarily insulting and ignorant towards the author. you need to work on your christianity as much as you need to work on your boxing history. the Hagler that went right through Minter had the chin, the physical strength and the power to beat jones at MW. so didn't Monzon. I'd also favor Robinson by a country mile. I shutter to think what McCLellan would have done to him at SMW. McClellan beat him already in the amateurs and was Tarver times TEN. bob foster would have KOd him. any number of heavyweights would have ruined him. jones was great, but you are juvenile about his being 'unbeatable'. no one is. any more questions?
Wednesday Sep 2, 2009 04:18:44 PM
Fe'ROZ @ ali @ Isaiah:  EM has posted some new articles on Floyd. Let's pick up where we left off on the new threads. Isaiah, you are right. My mistake. when I gave Floyd credit for Shane, I was think of Cotto. And ali, I try to avoid P4P discussions because they are mostly hypothetical... if not downright mythical. If I tout Manny over Floyd, it's because I think he has eclipsed him...... in star power. I have beaucoup respect for Floyd. But for the moment, Manny is the man.
Wednesday Sep 2, 2009 05:09:32 PM
Isaiah:  Fe"ROZ, I'm trying to agree with you man, but Cotto and Floyd have never fought either. Remeber, Floyd has no spine. He deserved to lose to Castillo in fight #1, claimed he whooped Oscar De La Hoya which is far from true, (He beat Oscar, but barely.) acted like beating undersized Ricky Hatton was a huge accomplishment and is now going after a more skille guy then Ricky, but still undersized, even more so. Marquez will fight like a lion, but this might asking Marquez too much. Floyd doesn't fight ELITE welterweights. You know, guys his own size that have a chance in winning. If Floyd was looking for a good Mexican comeback, he could fight Margarito in Mexico (since the man can't fight here and he's coming off a loss which is right up Floyd's ally.) and I bet that fight would have sold much better. Floyd could fight the only smaller man that has a chane against him, Manny Pacquiao, Floyd could fight Cotto or Mosley, or Floyd could earn real respect and fight a "PRIME" guy who could probaly still get to 147, Paul Williams, but that would mean Floyd would have to be the smaller man against a guy not named Oscar and I guess Floyd is too busy counting his money. I hope he dies alone and broke.
Thursday Sep 3, 2009 01:22:57 AM
Jim:  Oh dear oh dar. Some people on here still believe Jones lost to Calzaghe because of a cut and that Calzaghe was barely touching him to that point!!! Well go and ask Roy Jones whther Calzaghe was carrying any weight in his punches - same thing with BHOP that if Calzaghe wasn't hurting thme they'd just walk straight through him. And the knockdown in the JOnes fight wasn't even from a a legitimate punch. Calzaghe would've whooped Jones anytime in their careers for the reasons stated in the article
Thursday Sep 3, 2009 03:22:23 AM
FighterforJC:  This article is a joke. The author tries to build up his credibility by starting out criticizing Jones, and then goes on to make a 180-degree turn and gushes over Jones, calling him a "warrior." What proof does he offer? First he brings up Jones' rubber match with Antonio in which Jones was supposedly trying to "avenge" his loss. Jones fought NOTHING like a warrior. Jones fought to SURVIVE and felt it a moral victory to have made all the way to the final bell. The author then cites Jones's flash knockdown over Joe Calzaghe (which slo mo replays reveal to not have been a legitimate punch) but fails to mention that Jones fought like a bum the rest of the fight. The author takes the cake by using Jeff Lacy as proof positive that Jones isn't afraid of punchers. What decent fighter has Jeff Lacy stopped in the last several years? Heck, what decent fighter has he stopped, period? Lacy was never a real KO artist, he looks the part but that's about it. Then the author wraps it all up by bring up Jones' upcoming bout with Danny Green, which would be another MEANINGLESS victory, should Jones even manage to get past him. Why not Chad Dawson? B-hop? What about Paul Williams, who has said that he is willing to move up to light heavyweight? Or how about trying to "avenge" his brutal loss to Glen Johnson? Jones is back to his old handpicking ways, not that he ever left them.
Thursday Sep 3, 2009 10:36:24 AM
Tony Kuplex:  WOW there is a lot of Jealous jones haters out here
Thursday Sep 3, 2009 10:06:48 PM
FighterforJC:  WOW. There are a lot of blind, ignorant "boxing fans" out here.
Friday Sep 4, 2009 05:47:27 AM
@ "Joseph" & "Fighter for JC":  ....Roy Jones remains a lightning rod of controversy for fight fans. I think that those long, opposite, and highly charged posts by "Joseph" who loves Roy, and "FighterforJC" who hates Roy should be locked in a room together and left to sort it out between the two of them. One thinks the article is wrong because it criticizes Roy. The other thinks the article is wrong because it credits Roy. I guess that means the article is a fair assessment.
Friday Sep 4, 2009 07:07:55 AM
Joel:  It's disgust, that's all Mr. Kuplex. Disgust for Jones and his futile quest. Disgust for Jones and his newfound antics in the ring. Disgust for Jones and his talking to the crowd during fights against terrible opposition. Disgust for the ignorance of ali and his absurd commentary. He says that Pacquaio wasn't in the top-5 P4P in 2003/2004. Are you kidding me? Disgust. Disgust. Disgust.
Friday Sep 4, 2009 01:00:24 PM
Aaron:  Remember when Roy was talking about fighting Lennox Lewis after he beat Ruiz? To me, the one major blemish on Lewis' record is that he didn't defend the WBA strap against Ruiz when that was his mandatory. Not only would he have added another big name in the heavy weight division to his record, he would have remained undisputed champ. I think Ruiz is always the major blemish on Lennox's record.
Friday Sep 4, 2009 01:38:34 PM
Isaiah:  Let me get this straight. Your'r e going to knock Lennox "LION" Lewis for not taking that piece of crap WBA paper title seriously and fighing John Ruiz?! Ruiz has always been a bum and never deserved a shot at true champ, a.k.a. ( Ring Magazine champ ) Lennox Lewis and I ain't LION! HA!
Friday Sep 4, 2009 09:57:31 PM
@fighteRfor JC:  Joel and fighterfor jc you hate jones that is the bottom line when pacman loses to people will say the same stuff about pacman that they said about jones ...if you don't like it don't watch it there are other people who loved to be entertained by Jones..So its all right for Ali to talk trash in the righ but its not okay for Jones ..Bottom line don't hate the player hate the game
Sunday Sep 6, 2009 04:45:17 PM

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