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Sunday Aug 30, 2009

Please discuss amongst yourselves and for our edification, TSS U: what do you think of Lotierzo's contention that Ali didn't easily adjust to his stockier physique post-exile?

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The Greatest's Greatest Combination

By Frank Lotierzo

Most of you have probably heard the story now, that Ricky Hatton cried when former heavyweight champ Muhammad Ali showed up at his gym in the UK last week. According to those who were there Hatton was blown away after shaking hands and exchanging pleasantries with the most famous fighter/boxer in fistic history. Ali is much bigger than boxing and it's almost a miscarriage of justice to think of or limit him to just being a boxer. Muhammad Ali is no doubt one of the most recognized persons of the 20th Century.

After posing for pictures outside and then inside of Hatton's gym, Ricky presented Ali with a cake which had the word "GOAT," which stands for "Greatest Of All Time," inscribed on top of it.

"I've been fortunate to meet some of the greatest stars of boxing during my career, but I'd never had the chance to meet the greatest of all," Hatton said.

 

"He's not just the greatest boxer of all time, he's one of the greatest men of all time."

 

"Even youngsters know Muhammad Ali. And I think his gift of the gab has made the entertainment side of boxing what it is today."

 

Everything Hatton said is true. It's also true that everything that could be said about Muhammad Ali in one form or another has already been said since the night of February 25, 1964 when he won the heavyweight title from undisputed champ Sonny Liston in his 20th fight as a pro.

 

Ali is currently visiting the UK and being celebrated for the three times he fought there during the sixties. He stopped Henry Cooper (5th round TKO) in his first fight there before meeting Liston in his next bout. Three years later he stopped Cooper again (6th round TKO) to make his fourth successful defense of the title. Three months after that Ali defended his title for the fifth time, against Brian London (3rd round KO), at the Earls Court Arena in London.

 

Through the years boxing aficionados have vigorously debated and questioned what was the best fight of Ali's career and when was he at his physical peak. In regards to Ali's prime, I don't think he really had one. The best version of Ali physically was the one who was gaining weight as he toured the country speaking on college campuses during his forced exile. When he came back in October of 1970, he never really adjusted to his slightly more filled out body and was sometimes caught between styles. In some bouts he seemed to force himself to move because that's what he thought he should do, and other times he looked more content to trade and fight a more physical style seizing on his newly discovered physical strength.

 

Ali's fight with Cleveland "Big Cat" Williams is often mentioned as the fight where he combined speed and punching power the best and more so than in any other fight of his 61 bout career. Everybody has their own views on that and it's something that's pure conjecture. That said, if Ali ever combined speed and power more so than he did during the first five rounds of his first fight against "Smokin" Joe Frazier in 1971, I'm not sure I've seen the fight in which that occurred. 

 

Most Ali fans would probably agree that one of the best single punches Ali ever landed was the left-hook he nailed Oscar Bonavena with on the chin in the 15th round, which for all intent and purposes ended the fight. It was also the only time Bonavena was ever stopped in his 68 bout career. Had that been the first time you ever saw Ali fight, you'd come away thinking his left hook was his bread and butter punch.

 

Ali is the only fighter to ever stop George Foreman and was the first to stop Ron Lyle. He's also the first to drop Chuck Wepner, something neither George Foreman or Sonny Liston could do. And neither could Joe Frazier do it while sparring Wepner several times during a 2/3 year period. During his career Muhammad Ali faced better opposition than any other heavyweight champ in history. He posted wins and went 5-1 versus three certifiable all-time greats in Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier and George Foreman.

 

One more thing. On August 6th 1966, Ali knocked out Brian London in the third round to retain the heavyweight title. After feeling London out for the first two rounds, Ali backed him into a corner midway through the third and unloaded a barrage of punches so fast it's virtually impossible to count them. Ali was hitting London so fast that his punches actually prevented him from going down for a couple of seconds. Never have I seen a fighter at any weight cut loose with a barrage of punches so fast on an opponent. Making it even more impressive is the fact that most of the punches Ali threw were straight lefts and rights, as opposed to them being hooks and uppercuts which have less distance to travel and are easier to get off in succession.

 

The fastest hands to grace boxing, period, were the two Muhammad Ali unleashed on Brian London that stopped him in the third round of their heavyweight championship bout at the Earls Court Arena in the UK. As great as Ali looked against Cleveland Williams, the greatest combination he ever threw came in his fight versus London three months earlier.

 

It very well could be the greatest and most impressive combination thrown by any fighter, at any time.

 

Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com

 

 

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Cox' s Corner:  11 punches in 3 seconds!!! 'Nuff said.
Sunday Aug 30, 2009 09:00:37 PM
MisterLee:  Great article!
Monday Aug 31, 2009 09:31:44 AM
honky tonk man:  the first to stop ron lyle? give the ref and ali's reputation credit for that.
Monday Aug 31, 2009 09:37:23 AM
Matthew:  The Ali of '66 and '67 was him at the peak of his prime. His speed of hand and foot and his reflexes were at their best in this period just before his exile. Let's not forget that he was fighting with an urgency, knowing that the government was on his back, and he was fighting very frequenty, thus keeping him sharp. The Williams fight is widely regarded to be his best performance, largely because of Williams' dangerous reputation (though he was past his prime and had a couple of bullets still lodged in his body). The final combination against London was mind-boggling, but largely overlooked in Ali lore since London was a no-hoper. When he returned in '70, he did not train with the same kind of zeal that he did in his early 20s. He also developed bursitis in his hands, which required pre-fight injections (per Ferdie Pacheco). The post-exile Ali was both slower of hand/foot speed and of reflex, but showed us his chin, heart, and ring smarts.
Monday Aug 31, 2009 09:51:06 AM
dr3r42:  Hard to project Ali's prime. Like Frank said, it should have been 1969-1970, had he not gone into forced exhile. Most say the Cleveland Williams fight; Dundee said the Folley fight. I believe that F-Lo's always written that it's the first Frazier fight, that he ironically lost. I think it comes down to who he's fighting. If he's fighting someone with speed like Larry Holmes, then probably the 1966-67 version of him. If he's fighting someone who is strong and has power- like Foreman, then probably the 1971 version of him. The one area that everyone underrates the 1970's Ali is his physical strength. He contstantly grabbed Foreman around his neck and muscled Foreman around the ring, something that George had been used to doing to other people. Ali was also mentally tougher than the 1960's version (I doubt if the Ali who wanted to quit against Liston would have fought Norton with a broken jaw for 9 rounds, taken the punishment to his body that Foreman dished out, or found a second wind in Manilla. I think the 60's version of Ali was afraid of getting hit and didn't react as well to it. The 1970's version was confident he could take any punch, to the point that he got lazy and took more punishment than needed.
Monday Aug 31, 2009 12:36:01 PM
ali:  The only person to stop George Foreman and he's face some big punchers Ali was may the greatest fighter ever.
Monday Aug 31, 2009 01:35:27 PM
Aaron:  If you watch that computer "fight" with Rocky Marciano, you can get an image of Ali at his physical peak. He's filled out to his full adult frame, but is displaying the continuous hand and foot speed from his early days, and the rounds were filmed in 1969.
Monday Aug 31, 2009 01:47:50 PM
peter:  Bonavena got up after that hook. Ali should've been disqualified in the 15th round for not going to the neutral corner after knocking Bonavena down. But Ali, being Ali, got away with it. If Don King was in Bonavena's corner that night, he'd have raised a stink, and he would've been right!
Monday Aug 31, 2009 01:52:29 PM
Radam G, a most humble PacManite:  Nice copy! Fightwriter F-Lo is a DIME! Enough said!
Monday Aug 31, 2009 02:02:14 PM
Ali:  Of course, Ali would turn Marciano's face into such a mess without ever getting touched if they were really fighting, it would never have gone the number of rounds they filmed. Ali by a TKO in 5 or so if he and Marciano actually fought in '69.
Monday Aug 31, 2009 02:10:09 PM
Radam G, a most humble PacManite spittin' da fact:  Peter, you are dead wrong. The mandatory eight count was waived. That was done a lot back in the day. And a fighter goes in the counter that a ref point him to, not necessary the neutral corner. Exactly who decides where the neutral is? The ref! Holla!
Monday Aug 31, 2009 02:13:03 PM
Big Al:  The all-time heavyweight list: (1) "Big" George Foreman (2) Muhammad Ali (3) Joe Louis (4) Rocky Marciano (5) "Smokin'" Joe Frazier (6) "Mighty" Mike Tyson (7) Lennox Lewis (8) "Commander" Evander "The Real Deal" Holyfield (9) Sonny "Soul Train" Liston (10) Riddick "Big Daddy" Bowe. I LOVED ALI against Frazier in Manilla, against Shavers, and his return bout with Leon Spinks. The older Ali had a PHD in boxing. Even the Ali that kayoed Ron Lyle was a specimen. The man was great, no question about it. But I still believe Foreman, at his peak, was the best ever.
Monday Aug 31, 2009 03:39:37 PM
Rich:  Joe Calzaghe never lost. Ali had a china chin compared to Super Joe. Joe would have knocked out a prime Ali. (the preceeding commentary is not to be taken seriously. It is intended for the purpose of beating the JC fans to the punch in inserting him into every single damn boxing article that is written. I for one am tired of it!)
Monday Aug 31, 2009 07:40:52 PM
ali @ Big Al:  You can't be serious!!! Foreman was at his peak when he fought Ali and Ali was'nt and he still knockout Foreman. Just say he was your favorite heavyweight and that's why you put him number one. Also you put him before Joe Louis hell naw!!! he had I believe 24 title defenses in a row he's without a doubt a greater heavyweight then Forman.
Monday Aug 31, 2009 10:16:11 PM
Robert Curtis:  Sonny "Night Train" Liston, not Soul Train. Ali was the best. Period. Stop this memory lane mess. I watched a ton of George Foreman fights this weekend, including both Frazier fights, Jimmy Young, Lyle and that disgusting "Foreman Fights Five" disaster in Toronto. In no way did young George have the character to regain the championship in the 1970s. Back then, he was a mixed up, angry bully with no spiritual center and he fought dirty every chance he got. Ali would have whupped him again 9 times out of 10. Wow. I want what you Calzaghe fans are drinking. I'll be spinning on that stuff.
Monday Aug 31, 2009 10:37:12 PM
Anthony Mike Mullen:  Frank, I have never said this to any writer before..I am a fan.
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 06:40:13 AM
Robert Curtis:  I think Bonavena and Wepner were both absolutely exhausted when Ali dropped them. I suppose Foreman was too, even though it was the 8th round. Wasn't Cleveland Williams fighting Ali after getting gutshot by a state trooper? I think Ali fought Williams out of charity and tried to get it over with as fast as possible. It's hard for me to think of Ali as a combination king or KO artist. Probably the most devastating punching he did was in his last round against Frazier in Manilla. He absolutely unloaded on Joe despite his exhaustion. He might have killed Joe if the fight went another round. I have to agree with others that Frank is writing great educational articles here that keep boxing history alive. Now let's see a match between Radam's clone and the Calzaghe fan clone.
Tuesday Sep 1, 2009 09:42:28 AM

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