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| F-Lo understands why Roach wants Cotto weighing in at 143, four pounds under the welter max. But that doesn't mean he likes the catch-weight trend. |
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LOTIERZO: Curses To The Catch-Weight!
By Frank Lotierzo
Manny Pacquiao 49-3-2 (37 KOs) and Miguel Cotto 34-1 (27 KOs) are two of the easiest fighters in boxing to root for and no one minds putting their money down to buy a ticket to see them fight. Both Pacquiao and Cotto are real fighters and have always sought to fight the best fighters available. They've both shown incredible heart and fortitude and really are at their best and most dangerous when they are faced with adversity.
As of this writing it looks as though it's only a matter of time before a bout between them is finalized. At stake will be Cotto's WBO welterweight title. However, instead of the 147 pound limit that both Cotto and his last opponent Joshua Clottey had to make when they fought this past June, it will be fought at a 143 pound catch-weight insisted by the Pacquiao faction.
This fight on paper is a terrific matchup. If Cotto wasn't forced to come in below the maximum weight the welterweight division allows, it's one of the best fights boxing could realize in 2009. Since that's not the case it loses some of its luster in the eyes of this spectator.
The catch-weight nonsense is as old as boxing but became more of a staple after November of 1988 when Sugar Ray Leonard forced WBC light heavyweight title holder Donny Lalonde to come in at 168 so their light heavyweight title fight could also be for the super middleweight title, not that Lalonde cared about winning the lighter weight title. What he did care about was the five million dollars he was making for fighting Leonard. Once again the superstar was appeased. Now in retirement, Sugar Ray Leonard can lay claim to winning world titles in five divisions, which enhances his legacy. If Ken Norton is the only heavyweight champ who never won a title bout, is Ray Leonard the only light heavyweight title holder who never fought at light heavyweight?
Professional boxing is sometimes more about superstars and money than it is finding out who really is the best fighter. Look at De La Hoya vs. Pacquiao. Freddy Roach spouted how bad Oscar looked in his previous fight before Pacquiao and said that's why he agreed to the 147 pound limit. That I'm sure had something to do with it. But De La Hoya was the draw and Pacquiao and Roach had to accept Oscar's terms or no lottery payday or chance to transform Manny into the star fighter he's becoming. And this is exactly what's happening now with Pacquiao. Now he has the power and represents the money fight for his opponents. So he and Roach are only doing what's been done by others in their position. Remember, the fight between Pacquiao and Cotto is intended to make Pacquiao into a bigger star than he already is. In order to do that he must beat Cotto. In order to give him the best chance to do that, they'll attempt to weaken his supposedly stronger opponent taking away his only advantage.
This is also about helping to insure Pacquiao gets that fifth title. That's not a shot at Manny or an insinuation that he's afraid to fight Cotto or even Shane Mosley at 147, it's just that there's too much money and legacy riding on the outcome. If Roach could force Cotto to have to cut his leg off in order to make weight, he'd do it. Whatever it takes to give his fighter the best shot and bring both men the most money is what it's mostly about.
It does however get tiresome hearing that Pacquiao isn't a welterweight and is at a monumental disadvantage fighting a strong one like Cotto or Mosley. Some like to champion how Pacquiao started at 106 and moved up, something I too have been guilty of, but let’s not forget that he was only 17 then and hadn't nearly filled out nor was he an adult. At age 17 Cassius Clay was fighting as a light heavyweight. Pacquiao won his first title and lost it via knockout at 112. Mention that and you'll hear how he wasn't fully matured and he hasn't been stopped once since he's filled out. Okay, that's fair. So let’s say as an adult at age 24 he's a junior featherweight weighing about 122. Even still, fighting 25 pounds higher as a welterweight is an off the chart accomplishment, but let’s not act as is if his life is more on the line than other fighters moving up.
When Michael Spinks challenged Larry Holmes, Holmes weighed 46 pounds more than any other opponent he ever fought, and if we go back as far as Spinks’ debut weight of 165, we're talking 56 pounds. Spinks was outsized by Holmes more than Pacquiao is by Cotto or Mosley, but never once suggested that Holmes had to come in lighter than what he'd been weighing for any of his previous title defenses. He just wanted to be the legitimate heavyweight champ if he won, and he was. Roy Jones made the same jump fighting John Ruiz and didn't stipulate that Ruiz had to weigh in at a specified weight. Before Spinks and Jones, Sugar Ray Robinson challenged light heavyweight champ Joey Maxim. Again, no catch-weight, Robinson weighed in at 157 and Maxim was 173. Robinson didn't win and the weight had a lot to do with it, being he collapsed due to the heat they fought in that night. Robinson, who was known for being a shrewd businessman wasn't quite as astute as he thought. Today, Maxim would have to come in at 168 and Robinson would be a four-division champ.
Just to be clear -- this isn't an admonishment of Pacquiao. He's being told by Arum and Roach what's going to happen, I believe. The only thing Manny has to do is take care of the fight in the ring, they'll take care of the one outside it. Because they've probably changed his way of thinking and shown him that it's great to be a warrior, but your career lasts longer and you make more money being a smart warrior. Although I know it's business, I think it's ridiculous to fight the title of a champion, Cotto, where he can't weigh up to the maximum weight allowed for the division. As was Leonard's light heavyweight title tainted, so will Pacquiao's by some boxing observers, if he manages to beat Cotto.
As far as the actual fight between Pacquiao and Cotto, it's a fascinating matchup from a style vantage point. Both guys can hit with either hand and both have shown they're versatile and can press the fight and attack, or step back and counter. The problem again comes back to the weight. If Cotto is weak and dehydrated which he will be more than likely, then he'll be fighting with diminished reflexes and skills, not to mention less pop in his punch. And if Cotto can't hurt Pacquiao and make him do physically what he doesn't want to do, he has no tools at his disposal to hope to beat him. In this fight it will be imperative for Cotto to carry his punch because if he can bang Manny to the body and slow him down along with causing him to fight in more measured fashion than he normally does, he'll nullify his hand speed and southpaw style. A slowed Pacquiao will be vulnerable to Cotto stepping on it and pushing the fight as he attempts to impose himself physically, something that he'd have a better chance doing weighing 147 opposed to 143.
If anyone thinks the Cotto who fought Mosley, Margarito and Clottey is who we'll see fight Pacquiao on November 14, 2009, you're wrong. A week or more before he weighs in for the fight Cotto will kill himself and tear down his body trying to make 143, something that won't be undone in a day of eating and drinking after the weigh-in. To those who think the four pounds isn't a big deal and Cotto won't be severely compromised by sucking down to 143, ask yourself why it's the make or break stipulation in the fight being realized. If Pacquiao wants to fight Cotto at a catch-weight of 143, fine, but the title shouldn't be on the line. I can't blame Pacquiao for making the demands he has and Cotto has accepted to being bought off. Sure, Cotto will try and convince himself that it won't deny him victory, but fighters lie to themselves all the time, especially for more money than they've ever made before.
If I were a Pacquiao fan I'd see this only from his side and the same if I were a Cotto fan. However, I'm a boxing fan more so than any particular fighter. As a boxing-purist I don't like the catch-weight stipulation in this fight or any other fight. I know Michael Spinks legitimately beat Larry Holmes and Roy Jones did the same to John Ruiz. Just as I know as great as he was Sugar Ray Robinson couldn't quite move up from welterweight and beat the light heavyweight champ Joey Maxim.
On the other hand I have to be honest, if I were Pacquiao/Roach I'd do the same thing looking for every possible advantage I could get, and if I were Cotto I couldn't walk away from the money.
I don't know if Pacquiao can beat the real Cotto who fought Mosley, Margarito and Clottey, but I believe he can and will most likely beat the empty package version of him who we'll see this coming November.
Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com
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bernie vee:
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I admit that I'm irritated with your article but, I would really like to know what suggestions you may have for Pacquiao if he decides that there is no glory in fighting Cotto, Mosley or Mayweather.
If fighting Cotto below 147 isn't right, then why fight Cotto at all? The same thing goes with Shane Mosley! Why force a fight when it's obvious there's no point in doing so. Pacquiao fight Floyd is viable because Floyd's just retarded.
So, since there's nobody to fight, why not retire, right? So, if I were Pacquiao, I'd retire now. Leave this so-called perfectionist hanging in the air. Let them suffer!
Sunday Jul 12, 2009 11:18:13 PM
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mj:
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manny fought de la hoya at 147 i'm sure you're going to argue that de la hoya is over the hill when he fought pacquiao but when hatton fought pacquiao at 140 nobody even notice that the last fight of pacquiao is at 147 and he demolished hatton at 140 and to say hatton is undefeated at 140 why raise the issue of catch weight now because it is manny fighting by the way pacquiao will defeat cotto by ko at 8.
Sunday Jul 12, 2009 11:49:32 PM
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Beanstalk:
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I think the demand for a lower catch-weight of 143 is just a tactic for Team Pacquiao to negotiate for a much bigger share of the profits.
Roach has said in the past that he really didn't care if Cotto weighs 200lbs for the fight. He is confident that Pacman can beat Cotto at any weight limit.
Sunday Jul 12, 2009 11:51:39 PM
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Beanstalk:
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Team Pacquiao will perhaps argue that they gave in to a concession in the catch-weigh, which Team Cotto agrees to, so Team Cotto would have to agree to Pacman's demand for an improved, much bigger share in the profits.
Sunday Jul 12, 2009 11:56:35 PM
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jowi:
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cotto should fight mosely instead. or berto.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:04:38 AM
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paul caballero:
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A good point Mr. Frank, I agree with you, Manny is great, and I believe that He can beat Cotto even at 147lbs., but to make things fair to every boxer, 145 is good, let Manny gain 5 lbs, to the agreed wieght when He fight Hatton, then Cotto, down 2 lbs from 147., +5 and -2 sounds fair. I think NO one will talk about the catch weight. both fighters had thier respective disadvantage. Manny by KO at 9 rounds..
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:04:41 AM
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Chris:
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Frank - Robinson was coming up from Middle-weight where he had ruled for several years. Your point is heard but your comparison lacks substance. Back in Robinson's time, fighters weighed in a couple hours before fight time. Meaning, fighters were more inclined to fight at or around their natural weight. That is not what Cotto does, or Margarito, or Cintron, or Williams. Would they be able to be Welters in Robinson's time, nope. They would be Middleweights, atleast until 1954 when the Light Middleweight division was founded. And even still, guys like Paul Williams, Antonio Margarito and Kermit Cintron would probably be middle weights. If everyone wants to compare today, to the olden days, let's get rid of the 30+ hours a fighter has to rehydrate between the weigh-in and fight and not give any one fighter a major advantage on the unofficial scales. Which is why I am sure Roach and Company are pushing for the catchweight... Simply so Cotto does not outweigh Pac by 10 pounds come fight time. And honestly, Cotto weighed in at 146 for his fight against Clottey and several other of his 147 lo fights. If he can't healthily lose 1 Pound of fat and get to 145 (he don't exactly have a fat free build) he shouldnt be a welter....
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:04:51 AM
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CELESTINO PETALLAR:
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I just do hope that Cotto would define in strong terms what limit he is capable of fighting, and should not be blinded by the seven figures ARUM would dangle upon him. Otherwise, he might end up beaten to the blue because for sure he would be dehydrated by then. But worse, if he would be accuse of just after the money and eventually lose the support of his fans. If I were him, I will give ARUM an ultimatum that if PACQUIAO would not fight at 145 then that's the end of it. While we can understand others are lining up to enlist for a possible show down with PACQUIAO at catch weight, COTTO should not do this as he has a long way to go.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:06:17 AM
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Jerry Lynch:
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I'm a Pacfan & I wish the fight would go off at the actual welterweight limit just for the very reasons outlined in the article. I don't really think it would be terribly out-of-line to put some kind of limit on ring weight on fight night if Cotto wants to win the Pacquiao payday lottery.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:11:14 AM
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ton:
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There's a lot of sense in this article.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:13:59 AM
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frank:
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you never mention ricky hatton
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:19:29 AM
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Osmond Calupad:
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I'm tired of sports writers barking on pacquio and company how unfair this fight is going to be with cotto to weigh at a catch weight of 143# or so. Don't sports writers realize Cotto is a mature adult and can decide for himself what weight he's gonna fight at any given situation? instead of banging on the Pacman's door, why not call cotto and harp on him instead and tell him what you are saying how unfair it is for him to do this fight. Tell him, Cotto don't fight!!!!!!!!!! end of conversation....
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:25:06 AM
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isidro:
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I think the catch weight is more of a way to bargain further ,it is too frustrating for the fans of any Manny's opponent specially that they thought it is an easy fight then got defeated .So for every success of Pacquiao in this kind of agreement the next fight will surely be scrutinize in this angle,however if the result is a devastation for Manny then catch weight will be consider again of any in disadvantage fighter in that psyche.What is a catch weight in order to bring two great fighter of different division to agree to meet in the middle because huge numbers of fans experts, watchers, enthusiasts ,of boxing sees it as surely exciting and entertaining and gives their money's worth. then there are those matches which really in the no-catch weight set up and also gives the money's worth and it happens.
This fight isn't one of them i think and it is also great to see it happen.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:26:07 AM
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MANG RESTY:
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I also believed that way--MP should fight Cotto at 147 .He did it before with Dela Hoya and I am confident with MP's skill that he can do it again.It's sad that a great Fighter like MP is sometimes labeled as the dehydrator,Catchweight king,Cherry picker etc.
Pinoy boxing fans visit us at pacfans-corner
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:28:14 AM
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critic:
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before pac fought dela hoya, critics were arguing that pac was too small to fight at 147, let alone at 140.. PAC LOOKED SO SMALL against dela hoya even though he weight more than dela hoya as what they may seem to say.. pac's body is not a 147 lber.. he is a lightweight.. not a 140, and not 147.. cotto is very big and he punches very hard..
cotto is a natural welter, pac is not.. pac is not a natural jr welterweight as well.. pac is conceding too much in this fight... the fight with hatton was amazing but i don't think pac belongs at 140...
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:43:58 AM
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JJ:
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They can do it at 147 but the weigh-in should be done on the morning of the fight night. They are insisting for the catch weight so that Cotto will not blow up to 160+lbs.
Also, stop being a hater.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:47:03 AM
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butch:
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so going up 7lbs in weight doesn't have any disadvantages?
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:48:08 AM
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pahak:
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pacquiao-cotto at 144-145.. if pacquiao insist then he shoudnt fight cotto.. i'm a pacquiao fan, but if this fight will go through at 143, it will suck.. i for one wont watch it on ppv.. sori guys, i admit im a filipino, but pls. packy if you want your legacy cemented, play fair, halfway it is..144-145.. its stil a welter legit bout..but 143? though its legit, its not legit to most boxing fans..ciao and peace..
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:50:20 AM
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pahak:
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pacquiao-cotto at 144-145.. if pacquiao insist then he shoudnt fight cotto.. i'm a pacquiao fan, but if this fight will go through at 143, it will suck.. i for one wont watch it on ppv.. sori guys, i admit im a filipino, but pls. packy if you want your legacy cemented, play fair, halfway it is..144-145.. its stil a welter legit bout..but 143? though its legit, its not legit to most boxing fans..ciao and peace..
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:50:43 AM
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magic:
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what is it again? this is a lot of crap. make up your mind will you? just admit it, you want pacman to lose to cotto. what the **** are you trying to hide your hate for the pacman. dont mask it, it is already obvious starting from your title, as if you havent herd of the term "strategy" . yes its all about money, people wants to see a fight like pacman with cotto who is heavier, the pacman obliged but theyve to meet in the middle. cotto fights at 147 if hes going down to 143 hell be giving away 4lbs while pacman when he fought hatton at 140 came in only at 138lbs plus 9 or 10lbs on fight time 147-148lbs. if cotto will be allowed on 147 weight in plus 10lbs the least hell be 157lbs or could go up to 160lbs rehydrated, that on fight time hell be 10lbs heavier at the least, a sure advantage for cotto compared to 147lbs(heaviest) of pacman.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:55:38 AM
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Teebob:
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As Team Cotto suggested, they can only go down to 144-145 lbs.And i think 143 is too much for Cotto.And, it should not be a title fight.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:57:50 AM
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mrx:
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man pbf jump 2,3,4, weight class an never worry about weight pacs the real cherrypicker,dehydrator,catchweight king hey look its mang rusty
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:59:48 AM
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simple:
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143 lbs is acceptably fair. forget about DLH fight at 147lbs, it was a dream match anyways w/c was DLH's choice (wrongful one). MP gone up in weight too fast and if he agrees 147lbs that's a bonus for Cotto who cud actually benefits the lucrative pay for fighting MP. 145lbs is nonsense. fighting the best p4p is not as easy in terms but its a catch of terms for both fighters not just in weight perspective.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:02:21 AM
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pikoy:
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This is a great article. I'm a Filipino and number one fan of Manny but this write-up put things in their proper perspective. Cotto fighting in 143 is not the same guy who fought Mosley or even Margarito. Since he is the champion at 147, he should be fighting and defending as a champion at that weight. Remember, Manny fought Dela Hoya at 147, then why not fight Cotto at that weight? I hate it when boxing fans calls our Pambansang Kamao as the Catchweight King, it diminishes Manny's legacy.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:02:31 AM
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Chad:
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why you guys are all insecure with manny? Its the new tread in boxing to have good fights.
Marquez and Mayweather will fight at 143 lbs. I haven’t heard any problems about their weight. You guys can’t accept that manny is the great boxer and No one can’t stop him to be the greatest in all time.. FYI ENVY is a mortal sin
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:06:04 AM
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Queeny:
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I am a pacnut but I thank Frank Lotierzo for his non-bias view. Makes a lot of sense. I will not comment on this and I will just go with the flow. Whatever is agreed upon, then I will support it.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:07:00 AM
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Teebob:
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As Team Cotto suggested, they can only go down to 144-145 lbs.And i think 143 is too much for Cotto.And, it should not be a title fight.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:10:57 AM
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Joseph Madelo:
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I am also a Filipino like Pacquiao. I argue with my friends about Pacquiao-Cotto fight. I don't know the details fo the other boxing fights you've mentioned but we have the same opinion on Pacquiao-Cotto fight. Excellent article...
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:14:59 AM
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joeypogi:
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i do believe that a catch weight must be imposed coz of obvious physical mismatch. pacman started his pro career as a boxer at 106lbs., while cotto at jr.welterwieght. from that point of view, it is so obvious that theres a great physical mismatch between the 2 fighters, though many think that pacman is a supernatural being after he defeated the elite fighters who were much bigger than him, ddiaz, dela hoya & hatton... however, cotto is different from those guys coz, aside from obvious physical advantage, he is still young and he is in his prime...
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:18:24 AM
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NEW ERA:
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Mr author - just in case both camp agreed a fight at 143 which is unlikely, why did you say that the welterweight belt should not be on the line? I hope you know that Welterweight division range from 140.01 to 147 lbs where 143 lbs is almost at the center of these. You are worried for Cotto to come down to 143 lbs because as you said will be dehydrated and lessen his power and strength. You overlooked the case of Pacquiao going up in weight adding 4, 5, 0r 6 lbs to meet Cotto's weight at the center. This case he will be a bloated Pacquiao. He will sacrifice power, speed and strength because you cannot carry these capability with you when you go up in weight. You said The Pacman is gunning for his 5th title while in fact its the 7th. Pls have more time to check accurate boxing records of these two.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:20:11 AM
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junjun:
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pac is just playing mind games if team cotto won't accept the pac team proposed catch weight deal so team pac go for the purse deal.team pac will cut down the purse in favor to them , pac can beat this guy as what fredie Roach says, even cotto will weight in at fight nigth 200lbs he doesn't care. this article make sence .
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:23:35 AM
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MEG:
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imo 147 lbs is sweeter if mp won vs mc, but 145 lbs wont tarnish his rep as a champion and atg.
143 is not a catchweight its leaning too much for mp's advantage, not fair coz for me its easier to gain weight than too loose extra pounds.
on other perspective team pac is just being wise they are using the weight to gain leverage on the ppv sharing % they will get. like ill agree to a 145 instead of 143 thus giving away 2 pounds for miguel but team cotto must agree on a much lower ppv % share like instead of 60:40 team pacquaio will ask for 80:20 in their favor... not far from happening.
why lay out all your card when you have all the aces? its better to negotiate if and meet half way if you have (weight treshold)something to give and accept in return?
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:33:23 AM
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cjay:
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i think pacquiao is fighting smart now. he's trying to protect his future bout with mayweather from getting spoiled with an upset. fortget mosley and marquez. manny is not interested in fighting them. he wants the biggest prize, which is floyd. if he drains cotto then it would give him a big chance of beating the boricua bomber. then secure his share of the pot with money may.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:36:46 AM
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Tj:
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Hey! I like your point that the welterweight belt should not be on the line if the fight will be at 143. Cotto's stamina and power will surely diminish. However, such diminishement is a good offset to the lack of size and power of Manny. So it still a good fight.
I like to comment on your article that Manny lost to the titile to the thai via KO. For you readers, Manny lost because he did not meet the requirement for the weight that's why he lost the belt. Manny's real losses are to his fellow Filipino Torre Ocampo by well timed hard punch to the head of the attacking Manny, and to Erick Moreles in their first fight.
Although a fight at 143 is good fight, it will not be the test whether Manny is really a welterweight champ.The fight should be at 147 where Cotto is at his best. If Manny could defeat him, then I'll tell that my co-Filipino is really the best fighter at weltrweight, which I think Manny could do it. Honestly,Cotto is too slow.He is slower than Barrera. Manny will only just use the ring and attack if he sees the opening. 3 hard lightning combinations will be the story all day until Cotto quits or decide for unanimous decision.
I think the fighter that could defeat Manny is Marquez or Cassamayor. They are both superb counter puncher. Manny's stlye can only be defeated not by agressive attack but a good combination of counter punch, where Manny could not counter attack.
Thanks for the opportunity. I like what you wrote. MABUHAY
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:40:05 AM
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El Vivo:
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I believe those who are saying that this bout should be like this and like that is actually the ones who are very much interested to watch and want this fight come together.
Your saying Manny should give up his advantages so that he can face a nondehydrated cotto at 147, well for me that is insane and not exactly true. Manny is the reigning junior welterweight champ with a LIMIT of 140 and cotto a welterweight 147. Any way you look at it, Manny is in a disadvantage here. bring that to a 144 at least and that will make it a level field. Remember Pacman vs Marquez where Manny had to kill himself to make 130? A dehydrated Manny gave up weight and that leveled the playing field, and we saw one of the best fights ever in the sport of boxing.
If Cotto wont agree with atleast 144, then dont do the fight. But you see its not Manny who will lose much but Cotto and the \\\\\\"purist\\\\\\" boxing fans who are already salivating just thinking of a Cotto-Pacquiao fight. Its us fans who in return will lose because much as we love to see this happen, it just might not.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:43:31 AM
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boxing boy:
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Mr writer you really don't know your facts & sources. It was agreed upon that 145 will be the stipulated weight. As far as i know it is still welterweight so both parties can agreed if it will be for the welterweight championship of the world. When it comes to Pacman winning world titles. You said Pacman is aiming for that 5th title.....guess what.....Pacman had already attained that 5th title when he defeated David Diaz for the WBC Lightweight Championship. He was the WBC Flyweight, IBF Super Bantamweight, Ring Magazine Featherweight, WBC Super Featherweight, WBC Lightweight & recently the IBO & Ring MAgazine Light Welterweight Champion of the World. He defeated these boxers for the said championships : Chachai Sasakul, Ledwaba, Barrera, Marquez, Diaz & Hatton. So Pacman is aiming for his record breaking 7th....i'll repeat, 7th world titles in 7th..i'll repeat, 7th weight class.
You know im sick and tired of those like you who doesn't even review his article before it is publish. You cannot blamed boxing fan like me who taught that you dont know your facts.. I hope next time be sure on what you are writing. Goodluck...
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:57:04 AM
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daniel lacerna:
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Since welterweight division is a range, 141-147 and not 147 then it's just fair that a title should be at stake even if it's a catchweight of 143 or 145. At 147 Pacquiao will be bloated and slow, his most recent weight with Hatton was 138. So what do u want a disadvantaged bloated, slower Pacquiao at 147 or a weakened, dehydrated Cotto at 141. It's a simple logical thing to meet halfway so neither fighter is too disadvantaged.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:03:39 AM
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jr_lad:
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I agree with the author.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:04:53 AM
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bro:
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Yah! i am a filipino! i am pacfan but i really dont agree on a catchweight!
i am ashame of pacman now! if he is really great like what roy jones did to ruiz so get rid of the catchweight ! fight cotto in his natural weight and dont make excuses that you are not a legit welterweight!
NAKAKAHIYA KA PACMAN!
CATCHWEIGHT KING ANG MANGYARI SAYO IF HINGI KA ALWAYS NG CATCHWEIGHT!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:05:57 AM
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NOLI:
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COTTO's nutritionist says, 145 lbs is his natural weight. A weight where Cotto's body won't be dehydrated nor weakened. SO, WHY nOT Settle this Fight at 145 lbs? Anyway, legitimate WELTERWEIGHT fighters weighed from 141-147 lbs. Let us see how PACMAN demolish a Legitimate Welterweight in 145lbs COTTO.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:10:54 AM
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fifi:
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Frank, the blind pacnuthuggers won't understand that even if you use a syringe with a drill to pump it into their 5-inch think skull. The arguments for catchweight titlefights are just too flimsy - except for the money argument of course. For the boxing purist, a title fight at a catchweight is an unforgivable mortal sin.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:18:22 AM
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sund3r:
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yeah.. just fight tim bradley or shane mosley so weight would not be an issue..
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:20:11 AM
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JJ:
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HOW COME PACMAN BECOMES CATCHWEIGHT KING WHERE IT WILL BE, IF EVER IT HAPPENS, THE FIRST TIME HE WILL FIGHT AT A CATCHWEIGHT???
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:21:20 AM
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jun:
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this early the fight didnt even sealed, theres a exuces already if manny will beat cotto,
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:22:44 AM
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Kings:
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Roy Jones became P4P king, from middleweight to light heavyweight, he even go to heavyweight to fight with Ruiz and won a title then go back to the light heavyheight to depend his titles....
Floyd Mayweather also became P4P king, from Jr. Featherweight up to the light middleweight....
This two former P4P kings are not demanding any catch weight, their going to fight up to the maximum weight of the division...
Manny Pacquiao reigning the crown for being P4P king now, I'm just upset that he always demand for a catch weight... so Logic, he must be crowned as "Catch Weight King" and not a P4P best....
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:23:13 AM
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AndreF:
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Maybe it's better if Pacquiao should just not fight boxers he bigget than him so that those who don't like him fighting in a catcheight would be happy. Maybe these people would like to see Pacquiao fight smaller opponents just what PBF was doing.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:26:05 AM
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boy:
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im a filipino also especially from gensan, i hate to see the fight of manny against cotto in a catch weight becoz the moment he hits cotto w/ a solid left cotto will really drop to the canvass becoz 4 pounds is big enough for a boxer fighting at 147 for the last 3 years and just for the sake of money he will drain himself, manny pls dont be a coward you can KO cotto even at any weight. your speed kills. more power manny. . .
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:28:41 AM
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BOBOWNIBROW:
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@bro --- Bobow mow brow! hehehe! Pano naging catchweight king kung ngayon lang sya nanghingi ng catch weight? Ay ang tanga mow brow. Mas nakakahiya ka sa kanya brow. Ang sisihin nyo sa catch weights eh si DELAHOYA halos lahat ng laban nya catch weight.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:35:18 AM
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Anonymous user:
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We should look at the bigger picture here, if Pac will fight Cotto at 147, then, he has no more reason not to fight Floyd at 147. Although as a boxing fan, I want Pac to fight them both at 147, but I also have to be realistic that he would be put at a disadvantage at that weight. Regardless of his P4P ranking, we must remember that Pac is a small guy fighting these big guys at their comfortable weight.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:38:05 AM
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JJ:
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HOW COME PACMAN BECOMES CATCHWEIGHT KING WHERE IT WILL BE, IF EVER IT HAPPENS, THE FIRST TIME HE WILL FIGHT AT A CATCHWEIGHT???
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:38:28 AM
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tboy:
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We should look at the bigger picture here, if Pac will fight Cotto at 147, then, he has no more reason not to fight Floyd at 147. Although as a boxing fan, I want Pac to fight them both at 147, but I also have to be realistic that he would be put at a disadvantage at that weight. Regardless of his P4P ranking, we must remember that Pac is a small guy fighting these big guys at their comfortable weight.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:38:41 AM
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Monix:
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I believe catchweight will be necessary for these 2 figthers to fight on even terms. At 147, cotto will climb the ring at 160 lbs and will surely crush the little pacquiao who will most probably weigh at 148 lbs. At 143, cotto will also be weight-drained. So at 144-145 will be the best fighting weight for these two warriors. What is 1 or 2 lbs lower from his previous fight (against clottey w/c he weighs 146).
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:40:34 AM
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b-rock:
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It's sad why we always blame the fighters. Fighters fight in the ring but they do not have total control of the fight outside it. Like Manny always says that he's job is to train hard and be ready to fight in the ring, he stays away from the other people's responsibilities. Sure, i would love to see them fight at 147 but we cannot deny the fact that boxing is a business.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:43:15 AM
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AndreF:
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Maybe it's better if Pacquiao should just not fight boxers he bigget than him so that those who don't like him fighting in a catcheight would be happy. Maybe these people would like to see Pacquiao fight smaller opponents just what PBF was doing.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:48:43 AM
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blanche_boy:
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if it's a welterweight fight, i hope it happens at 147. this will really diminish pacmans legacy it fight happens at any weight below the welterweight limit. a fan of pacman, i hate to hear fans accusing him of being the catch weight king. if many are accusing mayweather of choosing fights at his own advantage, this is just a mirror of the same. pacman, go for the history minus the catchweight!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:49:54 AM
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kyzrsoze:
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How about if you instead write about the fact that too many fighters hang around weight divisions they have overgrown for many years. Boxing writers are complicit in perpetrating the fraud where fighters workout for months to squeeze themselves dry to make weight limit in a certain division then blow themselves back up to their TRUE FIGHTING WEIGHT - - - USUALLY 3 WEIGHT DIVISIONS ABOVE that which they are fighting for.
we know Cotto will be fighting @ 161-163 SUPER-MIDDLEWEIGHT. There’s your mendacity, dishonesty, undue advantage and the true injustice you should be writing about.
And yeah pacquiao was full grown at 112lbs in 1999 when he was 21yo (max age man is full grown height & bone structure). Everything else is muscle after that.
I guess that’s what makes manny great, he challenges himself by moving up. it’s bad enough he’s cheating death but he shouldn’t be too reckless in the process. Catchweight is good.
Or you should campaign that fighters should not weigh more the next division weight limit in Cotto’s case 154lbs.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:59:13 AM
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banks:
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145 lbs is not really a big loss for cotto as in his last fight against clottey he tipped the scales at 146 lbs. i think it is just fair that pacman would demand that cotto reduced just a bit of lbs for the fight to be competitive. remember cotto is the natural welterweight and manny is just a blown up featherweight.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:01:30 AM
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stanley:
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all i know is that welter starts at 141-147 am i wrong?
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:01:49 AM
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banks:
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145 lbs is not really a big loss for cotto as in his last fight against clottey he tipped the scales at 146 lbs. i think it is just fair that pacman would demand that cotto reduced just a bit of lbs for the fight to be competitive. remember cotto is the natural welterweight and manny is just a blown up featherweight.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:01:59 AM
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ka oca:
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who cares its about the money divided between manny and miguel money talks nobody else , agree?
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:08:26 AM
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Kix:
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This fight will happen at 145lbs, Team Pacquiao is just making this look as if they are really after the catchweight of 143. Freddie Roach already said, he doesn't mind if Cotto comes in at 200lbs at fight night. All this talks of stipulation are just a ploy, a hype to stir a bit of intrigue, drama and excitement. Roach is a Genius!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:15:56 AM
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tochi:
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Money really is the main reason for this, as for MPP , we cannot blame him for that catchweight demand, even MC agreed to that because of money..................all fighters really lie to themselves especially when they can make more money than they have ever earned before. Nobody should question that right now, the important thing is this is the last fight I think of our great Manny Pacman Pacquiao.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:16:17 AM
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tboy:
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@bro
lolz.. kakahiya? but we all know filipinos are more known now than ever because of him and yet you labeled him as "kakahiya"? WTF? mag isip ka namn muna bago k magsalita.. bobo mo
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:18:57 AM
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Chad:
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why you guys are all insecure with manny? Its the new tread in boxing to have good fights.
Marquez and Mayweather will fight at 143 lbs. I haven’t heard any problems about their weight. You guys can’t accept that manny is the great boxer and No one can’t stop him to be the greatest in all time.. FYI ENVY is a mortal sin
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:20:31 AM
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pinoy:
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it's not 5th title but 6th title...
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:24:18 AM
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edgardo:
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There is wrong in the system. Boxer will weight on weltrweight limit at 147 (starbed themself), then on fighting time they will weight more than 147 some weight 154, other 160 which is not a welterweight weight. This is what is wrong in the system.
Who's the culprit now? Sure not MP.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:25:05 AM
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Anonymous user:
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its just fair,manny would just be weighing 149 at fight night and cotto 155,thats 6lbs advantage already.when margarito is the man at welter look at what mosley did he goes down from 154 to 147
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:27:57 AM
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OnCall:
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I appeal to pacman... please make 147. its not whether u lose or win but u did it by the legit way.. but I still believe pac can do the job at 147!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:38:14 AM
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ewan:
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Even Pacman beats Cotto at 147 lbs.... Lots of excuses still occurs, Cotto was not the same after the beating he took from Margacheato etc... I am so tired of excuses.... Pag talo talo wala ng dahilanan.... hahahaha
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:38:29 AM
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OnCall:
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I appeal to pacman... please make 147. its not whether u lose or win but u did it by the legit way.. but I still believe pac can do the job at 147!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:38:59 AM
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futik:
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the writer is simply an anti pacquiao, people who always makes excuses just to discredit pacquiao. as he has said, pacquiao is not a natural welterweight, and cotto is a legitimate welterweight. meeting in between their weight wouldn't be that bad. roach cant give all the advantage to the opponent, its just fair to meet in the miiddle.Meeting halfway is never bad.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:40:57 AM
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ewan:
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Even Pacman beats Cotto at 147 lbs.... Lots of excuses still occurs, Cotto was not the same after the beating he took from Margacheato etc... I am so tired of excuses.... Pag talo talo wala ng dahilanan.... hahahaha
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:44:46 AM
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Mang Restu SucKs!:
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Manny isnot asking for anything. Legacy or greatness, manny dont really care about it. Who cares for legacy anyway? Are we historians to dictate? Its only you people who really cares thats why you whine all the time. Making susch a big issue. Manny just want to entertain us. If he cant entertain you then quit watching him. Simple as that! Manny just want us to pay him fight! Thas ALL!.. Everyone should wake up in reality!
...Then again.. Mang Resty SUCKS!!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:46:45 AM
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JB:
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I definitely agree that the fight should take place at 147, provided that the weigh-in should happen on the same day of the fight. That was how it was done during the time of Sugar Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong et al. It would be fair to all concerned and it will be palatable to historians and critics alike.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:47:46 AM
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adrein:
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Whether we like it or not Cotto will always be the bigger man if compared to Pacquiao because it has something to do with body structure and bone mass. Pacquiao on the other hand has no business fighting in the welterweights much more against a legitimate champ like Cotto. If Pacquiao will fight Cotto at 145Lbs limit there's no doubt Cotto will dominate Pacquiao and that nutritionist thing is just Cotto's camp ploy to gain greater advantage over Pacquiao. Even if the bout will be fought at 144Lbs I still think that Cotto will still win the fight. Cotto is still very young, he is a very strong and a very good boxer, just ask Clottey and Mosley. Oscar and Bob, deep in their minds, they don't believe that Pacquiao could really beat Cotto unless Pacquiao will load his glove with plaster of paris or maybe load it with a much harder object. Cotto is not frantic unlike Oscar and Hatton, Cotto takes boxing as a pure business and will execute it without making errors mostly committed by over-eager fighters. Cotto has defense far better than Diaz, De la Hoya and Hatton and most of all Cotto is much stronger and younger than Pacquiao's last three opponents. I may say, not unless Cotto will go down to 140Lbs that's the only weight Pacquiao has the upper hand against Cotto, just ask Paulie Malignaggi because Cotto and Malignaggi had been there before already.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:48:33 AM
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nydboy72:
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To bro: you don't know what u are saying man... u don't know
boxing... tsk tsk tsk. boxing is a weight match/ battle!!!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 04:15:53 AM
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rafpao:
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What we're talking here is the Pound for Pound. If you want to beat Pacquaio as for pound for pound king then, and as a true warrior, you go with catch weight because that is the equivalent of the P4P title.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 04:19:33 AM
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rafpao:
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It just so happen that Pacquiao is P4P king and lots of champ wants that piece of cake that is why they wanted it. What about the time when Pacman wants to challenge those champ on the higher weights and pacman hungrly wanted that slellar, so what he did is to go up-weight and made it happen to fight those champ such us: The 3 mexican champs @ 130; David Diaz WBC champ at 135; Hatton IBF champ @ 140; never mind to incluce DLH.? Those are the real deal. But does any of the pacman team reason out of the catch weight? Never, and even pacman doesn't mind it because he want to on top as P4P king. And thats what we are trying to explain it. Its all about challenging pacman at the certain given weight. So if you want tthat stellar as a P4p kingship? Fight pacman at the specific agreed weight.!!!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 04:31:49 AM
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CHARLES:
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To this writer.. Just to correct some details.. Its not Pacquiao who wants cotto at 143 or should I say CATCH WEIGHT... ITs hes team.. In a certain Interview in the philippines by a local Network.. Manny ask by the reporter if which weight he wants to fight cotto.. He said straight. "KAHIT ANO PAREHO LANG YAN" means "ANY WEIGHT ITS ALL THE SAME"..
He's team wants to demand more as possible because its their JOB to protect their MAN... if they just agree with it without fighting its like they dont care to MP after all.. so pls dont accuse manny dont want to fight COTTO... Its about the demand.. Not about Mannys Reputation.. God Bless
Monday Jul 13, 2009 04:31:51 AM
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Jack99:
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to even up the fight, catchweight is necessary to at least to reduce the gap between a natural lightweight (manny) and a welterweight (actually middle weight - cotto). why? the last time cotto fought, on the fight night he weighed in at 160 plus pounds... to my simple mind, this is no longer a welterweight guy but almost a light heavyweight (he should fight iron mike hehehe). gone are the days when fighters make the weigh-in during the fight night. if that happens by the way, both fighters are fighting as true welterweights, simply because none of them will, or should not exceed the 147 lbs weight limit for welterweights. but be that as it may, to my mind, a catchweight is necessary... to even up things at least.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 04:35:44 AM
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Jack99:
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the weight gap will be reduced if the catchweight is held at 143lbs, and perhaps on the fight night the weight difference between manny and cotto will not be that far too, say 5 – 7 lbs? of course cotto will still be heavier than manny.
manny has nothing to loss by the way, if he wins, he’ll take the welterweight belt of cotto, and if he losses, cotto will retain his belt. plain and simple.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 04:38:43 AM
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Djan:
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If they fight at 147 it's cotto's advantage and if they fight at 140 it is Pacquiao's advantage. To make it even that is why there is a catchweight. Forget the title, every body wants this fight to happen. The writer only think of cotto's advantage. For Cotto take it or leave it. He can fight Margarito again to avenge his defeat and prove that Margarito was cheating.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 04:38:46 AM
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camotes:
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manny is a great fighter and im pretty sure he will put cotto in a canvas..
Monday Jul 13, 2009 04:43:51 AM
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djan:
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If they fight at 147 it's cotto's advantage and if they fight at 140 it is Pacquiao's advantage. To make it even that is why there is a catchweight. Forget the title, every body wants this fight to happen. The writer only think of cotto's advantage. For Cotto take it or leave it. He can fight Margarito again to avenge his defeat and prove that Margarito was cheating
Monday Jul 13, 2009 04:56:46 AM
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jchristian:
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SIMPLE TRUTH : any fight from 141 to 147 pounds is a LEGIT welterweight fight...
Monday Jul 13, 2009 04:59:54 AM
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lando:
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I'm sure manny will fight anybody at 155 lbs. if this weight will be done at fight night. Cotto may weight at 145 at the usual weight in but will weight to about 160 during fight night. Manny weight at 148 at fight night when he met with ODLH.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 05:01:11 AM
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evilsource:
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D writer have good points but have we really looked at the reason why MP was very insistent on having the catchweight? Have we considered what he said, knowing how truthfully he declared, that he has difficulty gaining too much weight and not affecting his performance?
I think one thing that we have not noticed is that MP have signs that he gets hurt with those blows by heavier men. He won't admit it of course, but review MP-RH fight and you will notice that those punches made him worry.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 05:07:54 AM
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jca:
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the welterweight is from 140 to 147. A few pound lower for Cotto say 145 will not affect him other than lowering his ability to make it 156 come fight night. Manny going 145 means having to weigh 148 to 150 come fight night. Still a big disadvantage to Manny. Just because Manny can handle fighters a bit bigger than him does not mean he would just throw away any form of leveling the playing field. As I have said in another forum. The Oscar fiasco was not the fault of Manny. The reason Oscar did not increase his weigh during fight night was because he had already a huge advantage against Manny (height, reach, weight, etc.) to have deliberately balooned to 157 lbs would have made the fight an uneven fight and had Oscar won, it would have made him look bad and the rest of the the people in the boxing world. Look people - the trainers of Oscar and the rest of his team are professionals. They know their job and what needs to be done to fighters after the weigh-in - and that is to gain as much weigh just before the fight time and they know this. It is an insult if they did not! What happened was deliberate so that when Oscar beats Manny the weight issue would not be the factor. To demonize Roach and Manny for demanding a catch weigh is just unfair. The real issue here is that we want two boxers who happen to be at a different division (& therefore of different weight) and the best of their division fight. How will the boxing world make it as fair as possible for both fighters? Will giving Cotto everything and leave Manny nothing fair? Will bringing Cotto down to 143 fair? I honestly believe that bringing the fight at 143 is not fair to Cotto but placing the fight at 147 is also not fair to Manny. The most reasonable weight would be around 144 or 145. With this, both cotto and Manny would make the necessary sacrifice but not unfair to any. What the boxing world wants is that Manny would fight any boxer without condition. If he puts conditions especially on bigger boxers he is perceived to be evil. Fairness is only viewed from the standpoint of the opponent. Never mind about Manny for as long as his opponent gets all the advantages. This is morally wrong!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 05:12:13 AM
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Jack99:
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the weight gap will be reduced if the catchweight is held at 143lbs, and perhaps on the fight night the weight difference between manny and cotto will not be that far too, say 5 – 7 lbs? of course cotto will still be heavier than manny.
manny has nothing to loss by the way, if he wins, he’ll take the welterweight belt of cotto, and if he losses, cotto will retain his belt. plain and simple.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 05:14:50 AM
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Jersey Joe:
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A "hydrated" Pacman weighs close to 147 while a "hydrated" Cotto weighs closer to 155.
Sure, let's have the fight at 147 but make the weigh in at the actual day of the fight and not the day before. This way, both fighters are truly at 147.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 05:22:02 AM
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sANDMAN:
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WHY IS IT MORE ABOUT COTTO GOING DOWN THAN PACQUIAO GOING UP? PACQUIAO'S NOT AT HIS BEST ABOVE 140, THAT IS FACT. PEOPLE LIKE TO DIMINISH PACQUIAO'S ACHIEVEMENTS, AND PEOPLE ARE EVEN DOING IT WEEKS BEFORE THE FIGHT IS SIGNED.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 05:44:46 AM
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Spoon:
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First of all, Pacman ‘never’ was in any catch weight bout in his carreer. Delahoya fought pacman at 147. He had 3months to prep up, he just didnt maximize his weight coz he wanted to reduce to gain speed advantage over pacman, but you know what happened he lost because it was a wrong gameplan. He couldnt outspeed pacman, what he should have done was bulk himself up to have the size advantage but he didnt the rest is history.He lost no excuses 3months of prep man. Enuf said. Secondly, Mayweather Jr. if his really that great should have gone straight to pacman where the money fight is. Its a no brainer thats the biggest match you could ever make in boxing. He always preaches his after money, but he duct the biggest payday he can make. What does that say about him?? His all bark no teeth! He contradicts himself! If his really good he would fight the best for all the money he could have made but his just a lame fighter who ducts legit welters.. Shane, Cotto margacheato and ofcourse the pacman.He duct every fighter who hasa shot of beating him. So stop putting him so high up there coz he hasn’t proved jack shit. Unlike Pacman he is going up fighting bigger stronger guys than him. Beating them like rag dolls. So who's the best?? Anyway give pacman a fair game its his first and his almost at his limit he started his career @ 106lbs. Meeting halfway at 144lbs is just fair game.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 05:47:21 AM
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Afighter2U:
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MANG RESTY: I also believed that way--MP should fight Cotto at 147 .He did it before with Dela Hoya and I am confident with MP's skill that he can do it again.It's sad that a great Fighter like MP is sometimes labeled as the dehydrator,Catchweight king,Cherry picker etc. Pinoy boxing fans visit us at pacfans-corner
Monday Jul 13, 2009
STOP CRITICIZING MP FOR ASKING FOR CATCH WEIGHT it is to level the fighting field
Did you not see what happen to Vic vs JA . Vic lost that fight because he could not hurt JA and his fighting style only works if he had KO power which he enjoyed having at the lower division.
And if MP vs MC fights at a catch weight of 145, MC could still weight in 146 as he did vs Clottey at his best. Only pay the penalty for the excess lbs. That way MC at his best and MP with more money.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 05:48:25 AM
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Vic:
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it always goes back to skill, 143 is just for weighing in, cotto can always ballon to his normal weight after his weigh in, a lot of fighters do this. 3 to 4 pounds is only 4 to 6 glasses of water, so weighing in one day before the fight is a long time for a guy to recuperate. It is always the skill that counts. What is funny is that bro who is a filipino doesn't understand this. As a nurse I can dehydrate my patient in an hour. Dehydration will not be a factor in this fight, its the skill, and to tell you put a dumb fighter on the ring with cotto at this catch weight let us see if he can beat cotto. Good luck manny.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 06:02:51 AM
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niche:
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This article could have been written on one sentence, No catch weight because I'm a boxing purist. The argument the writer presented is lame -- going up from lower class to welterweight is different from going up to heavyweight. Speed is always less of a factor in heavyweights because of human biology so all you have to worry about is power and in the case of Roy Jones, he picked the least powerful/heaviest guy with a title belt to fight -- and that is okay but that is the main reason he fought Ruiz because he knows he can win. BUT in welterweight speed and power can still be there and that is a big advantage -- so any compromise will level the playing field. Next time do more research a make a better comparison to a least put up a more believable argument -- or maybe nobody at 106 had ever accomplish winning up to 140 in that case you have no argument..
Monday Jul 13, 2009 06:11:41 AM
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miguel:
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open the window of your mind and let the wisdom in, cotto is bigger only pacman wants is a PARTIDA called a catchweight they meet in the middle which is 143 lbs.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 06:11:42 AM
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trik:
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"Professional boxing is sometimes more about superstars and money than it is finding out who really is the best fighter."
If you really want to find out who the best fighter is, wouldn't you want to eliminate advantages in weight?
"I don't know if Pacquiao can beat the real Cotto who fought Mosley, Margarito and Clottey, but I believe he can and will most likely beat the empty package version of him who we'll see this coming November."
i.e If Pacman wins on November, even if Cotto comes in healthy at catchweight and both give a good fight, Pacman gets no credit? O RLY?
Monday Jul 13, 2009 06:12:06 AM
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vince:
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if you are in his position, you would do the same thing.. If you want mohneyyyyy.. fall in line.. you follow his Rule. If you don't want it, go somewhere else and eat your gloves.. ha ha ha.. Manny has proven he is the man. He is already a made man.. A Hall of Famer candidate.. Actually, he is a generous man. He is giving Cotto the opportunity to be richer.. Catch weight? Its Cottos decision if he wants to...eingh???
Monday Jul 13, 2009 06:22:05 AM
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Mang Resty Sucks!:
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TO ALL LOSERS WHO WISH AND WHINE ABOUT CATCHWEIGHT JUST TO AVENGE THEIR LOSS ON BET! I SAY NO CHANCE! I SUGGEST BET ON MANNY YOUR MONEY AND THERE WONT BE ANY WHINNY!!.. LOL
Monday Jul 13, 2009 06:52:07 AM
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jm:
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filipino fans should give credit to pacquiao on what hes done..they shouldnt be ashamed of him.they should be ashamed of themselves bcoz theyre filipino too.people should understand that 147 is not pacquiao weigh division,even when he fought oscar,he only weigh 142 on the scale.while cotto is sitting there at the welterweighdiv for how many years now.so it should be fair fighting at 144.so if pac got kO at 147,this people, i think, will be saying that pac shouldnt be fighting at 147 coz hes not a true welterweigh..im not a filipino but im proud him..
Monday Jul 13, 2009 06:57:40 AM
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vagzvanni:
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yes isidro is right, catchweight is a way of bringing two great fighters of different division to agree to meet in the middle, let us not compare pacquiao with other fighters, pacquiao is pacquiao and not roy jones. right now is the most exciting fighter in the planet, if i were pacquiao, and cotto doesn't agree to his demands and continue to recieve criticsms like this, then i think should retire. still many don't realize how much he had contributed to the boxing world especially nowadays where mixed martial arts followers has grown tremendously that many believe affected the boxing business.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 06:57:46 AM
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Oinky:
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Pacquiao should just fight a legitimate 140 pounder, Edwin Valero or Marquez... I'm more interested in that more than a fake Cotto. But it is money indeed. But if the Pacquiao-Cotto(drained) materializes, Pacquiao should win the fight but not the legacy with it (the last notable win for him would be the Hatton fight).
Monday Jul 13, 2009 07:00:05 AM
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kissjonez:
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Bottom line, Pacquiao did'nt called out Cotto or Mosely but they did! Why is it Pacquiao's fault?? Why can't some boxers that are same weight as Pacquiao calls him out?? I guess cause Pacquaio demolished them all? lol! Bottomline, Pacquiao is a smaller guy and he is the best right now especially with all his accomplishments. I can't blame the guy, he deserves it! Now, all these natuarally BIG boxers wants a piece of him. Basically they're tryin' to bully the smaller Pacquiao to fight them! But I'm glad Pacquaio is not budgin' and can't be bullied! He's just being smart! Whats wrong with meeting him half way regarding with the weight issues? Miguel Cotto, Shane Mosely or whoever! Y'all wanted a piece of the smaller POUND-FOR POUND King Pacqiauo then meet him halfway! I dont think Pacquaios legacy would be tainted if he fights Cotto or Mosely at a catch weight at 143 and win it! Cotto and Mosely should worry about their legacy if they fight the smaller Pacquaio at 147 and beat Pacquaio bad! Think about it... Real Talk!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 07:17:37 AM
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dcart:
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What I understood about your article is that you are trying to convince Pacquiao's fans to show dismay about the catch weight and rally the idea of boycotting the fight, which not gonna happen. Pacquiao's fight under dog or over dog fans will watch all over the world to see him fighting. Of course his team will explore all possible advantages they can have to win the fight, but there is no cheating for sure. I beleive that you want cotto to be the winner of this fight, but you are showing your fear of the pacman. Now you are exploring the possibility of reverse psychology. No work for us Pacquiao fans. Cheers.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 07:27:59 AM
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kigua k.:
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Why no luster? Welterweight is between 140 upto 147 lbs. What Pac-man is asking is a weight clause in Welterweight, is it hard to understand that? They can fight at 147 lbs, that's fine; but Cotto should remain 147 lbs on fight night, because its Welterweight Belt they are fighting for. If Cotto cannot do that then he should move to Middleweight. He has no business to stay in Welterweight if cannot keep his weight below 147 lbs. Grow-up man!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 07:39:22 AM
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mikey:
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Holmes was older and past his prime when he fought Spinks,Cottto is much younger and still at his prime if he fights Pacquiao, so there is no point of comparison.Ruiz was the weakest champion and far behind in skills compared to Jones,Cotto is a real champion, he defeated Mosley so Mosley cannot claim the lineal title and Cotto has skills at par with Pacquiao, so there is no point of comparison. Your premise tend to favor Cotto,They should fight at 144lbs. to make the playing field even and no excuses.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 07:58:09 AM
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james:
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Whats your problem Frank Lotierzo?
Your bias article could'nt think of anything to write so here you go with your catchweight nonsense?
Catchweight has been around boxing before boxing became a widely recognized sport.
In Mayweather vs Marquez match up, why dont you write anything regarding the matter that they too agreed on a catchweigt of 145?
Do you think the fight between these two will be played out in 147?
Stupid ignorant fool!
Criticizing the fight between pacman and angel wouldnt give you anything but a boring year if the fight wont happen.
Besides Cotto came in 146 in his last fight with clottey, so whats the problem in there? so another 2 lbs less from 146 will not dehydrate him. 140 would! Idiot!
You talk too much..
You know no shit!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 08:14:30 AM
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NOLI:
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Its so annoying to hear MANNY PACQUIAO labeled as CATCHWEIGHT KING! If you are really a boxing fan, you will realized how & why PACMAN is on the current situation. IT'S BECAUSE OF ALL OF US! Because we wanted to see until which division PACMAN can demolished his opponent. FIRSTLY, nobody give a damn chance for PACMAN to win over De La Hoya at 147. Some boxing expert De la hoya is too big, too good for PACMAN. Some even say De La Hoya will kill PACMAN. WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED! Here comes HATTON, the 140 lb KING at that time. Hatton never lost at 140 lbs before PACMAN K.O. him. But before that, everybody says HATTON will destroy PACMAN. Some haters say, HATTON is the biggest monster he will ever face. HATTON will destroy PACMAN. AND AGAIN WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED! BUT STILL those who LOVED PACMAN, WE ARE NOT YET CONTENTED! We want more...We want to see bigger and stronger opponents for PACMAN without thinking that PACMAN like any other LEGENDS has his own limits! WHILE THE HATERS KEEP SEARCHING WAYS OF DISCREDITING PACMAN'S achievement. And Continue pushing Bigger & Stronger Opponent for PACMAN coz they are salivating to see PACMAN being BEAT-OFF! Just Think of RICARDO LOIS before PACMAN fight De La Hoya. And think of MANUEL PEREZ...whoever knows him...
Monday Jul 13, 2009 08:23:45 AM
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keenan:
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What glory??? Pacquiao has become "another Money Floyd Mayweather". He wil not pick Mosley because not only Mosley is a dangerous fighter, but there is less money to be made.
But with Cotto, both Roach and Pacquiao feels he's beatable as long they keep him at 143. Wake up, Pacquiao followers. There is no great legacy in that. Money is what matters. He does not need to retire yet. Cotto-Pacquiao at 145lbs will be the end of a great career for Pacman and will take the only legacy fitting for his accomplishments; "the greatest asian boxer of all time"
Monday Jul 13, 2009 08:35:17 AM
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KOWatcher:
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Your write up seems to say poor Cotto with his crown as a welterweight has to go down to 143 lbs just to meet Pacquiao but hiding the fact of what would Cotto gain in return if he wins the bout...just the P4P and PPV crowns Ohhh its nothing.....So I say at 147 Cotto is like hitting a jackpot.......Logically a welterweight champion and a Light Welterweight champion should meet halfway at 143.5 lbs of which Pacquiao have not weight more than 142 yet at scale night. and another thing 143.5 lbs is a welterweight wieght not for light welterweight.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 08:35:49 AM
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tony:
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Cotto's nutritionist said Cotto can down to 144 lbs without endangering his health. Guys please check the figures before writing because we are murking the issue. I think 144 lbs would be fair to both. Pacman last weigh in was at 138 lbs with Hatton while Cotto weigh in with Clottey was at 146 lbs. iF Cotto want Million Dollar payday then say yes if not then backout. There are a lot boxer who would like to fight the Cash Cow. It is only for Pacman to protect himself on the weight disadvantage, he is just being smart! Can the writers and other bystander protect him No!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 08:36:40 AM
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Mikajo:
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147 is Cotto comfort zone and 140 is for Manny. If Manny will try to put extra pounds to get the welterweight limit, this will be his disadvantage as we all know that it is not his natural weight and knowing that he came from 106. Same as for Cotto, if he will loosen some weights this will be his disadvantage too. Thats why there is a catch weight. Both men will meet in the middle and we all know that both men are not in their comfort zone. I guess this will enlighten us regarding of the catch weight issue.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 08:46:31 AM
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LC :
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Both guys are grown men and can decide what weight they will fight. We know both guys are fighting for legacy and money. And both are PRIME. Cotto is naturally bigger and stronger. Pacquiao is naturally smaller fighter. Both don't want to be at disadvantage. Why does it matter if sanctioning body approved that is title fight and agreed at catchweight? It should. Fight fans should be enjoying these two great fighters and fight fans care less what weight they agreed so long it happens. If it makes fair for both guys, meeting half way is @ 144 is more than reasonable.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 08:59:15 AM
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Catarman777:
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Good article. Well written and objective. I am a Pacquiao fan and I agree with your take on the matter. I am hoping that all concerned will do the right thing so as not to diminish a fighter's accomplishment and maintain the integrity of the sport. Its good to see that there are a few remaining true boxing "purists" that have access to mainstream media. You are are the opposite of Pedro Fernandez (Ringtalk?) I don't even remember because he is so insignificant. Pedro has not only made wrong predictions on all Pacquiao fights, he continues to be critical of Pacquiao's accomplishments. He has to get off his high horse of make believe boxing expertise. He does not know anything and as I've said in the past, I think showbiz papparazzi would suit him better. Thank you.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 09:13:30 AM
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ABDUL JAKUL:
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I THINK PACMAN CAN DO IT AT 147, I THINK PACMAN MUST AGREE TO THAT COZ COTTOS BELT IS AT STAKE ...IN MY OPINION IT IS UNFAIR FOR COTTO TO FIGHT A CATCHWEIGHT OFFER.. I THINK PACMANS GOT ALMOST ALL THE ADVANTAGE OVER COTTO WHILE COTTOS GOT NOTHING... I BELIEVE PACMAN CAN HANDLE COTTO AT 147...
Monday Jul 13, 2009 09:14:58 AM
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ABDUL JAKUL:
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PACMAN MUST FIGHT EQUALY ON COTTO IF HE WANTS TO STEAL THE BELT OVER COTTO... REMEMBER PACMAN IS THE CHALLENGER AND COTTOS THE DEFENDER SO PACMAN MUST AGREE TO IT!!! I BELIEVE HE CAN DO IT LIKE WHAT HE DID TO ODLH..
Monday Jul 13, 2009 09:20:35 AM
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.357:
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If Pacquiao wants to win Cotto's belt he has to fight at Cotto's weight, else it should be his belt that will be put on the line.
We hear about the disadvantages of losing weight, but it should also be mentioned the disadvantages of gaining weight. There is a prescribed gain of poundage for athletes in order to maintain efficiency in their movement. Pacquiao straying too far away from his weight might be detrimental to his mobility, balance and flexibility. But am one of the view that a 20 pounds differential does not matter. Pacquiao is a powerful puncher (even for a full welterweight) and he can opt to fight at a much lower weight and still overwhelm Cotto with his speed and power.
Catchweights are for lesser legends like Sugar Ray Leonard.
Bottomline : Pacquiao fighting Cotto at 143lbs will only be exciting to the fans of the Puerto Rican-wanting to see if their hero can salvage a win at a weakened state. It will never be a meaningful fight for Pacquiao fans knowing that his opponent Cotto has been set up to lose.
And if perchance you would lose at 143lbs - what would you say?
Manny am a big fan of yours - i want to cheer you but not this way bro.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 09:41:06 AM
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drei:
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hey mr. writer..i just want to clarify that the cotto clottey figth was done in a catchweight,146 lbs i think..
Monday Jul 13, 2009 09:45:38 AM
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john:
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I am surprise by the cotto fans why they are worried about the fight between their favorite cotto against manny pacquiao, it seems they have lack of trust and confidence of their boxer that cannot defeat to manny pacman., why always complaining about the weight if we do this simple mathematics cotto weighs 147lbs. while pacman weighs 140 lbs. if this two boxer meet at 143.5 lbs. cotto will go down 3.5 lbs. and pacquiao will raise up 3.5 lbs. isn't it fair and square, I beg you cotto fans to stop making too much noise that has no concrete basis, try to look at your favorite boxer cotto moves, he is a flat footed boxer he moves slow pacquiao move at different angle the bolo punch comes from the diffrent direction whatever pacman position he can throw his punch and a true left handed boxer of w/c the left straight punch is invisible, remember marquez during his first encounter w/ pacman his butt taste the canvass thrice good enough one old referee w/ dementia favored marquez that make the decision draw, when de la joya encounter w/ pacman everybody think de la joya will demolish pacquiao and pacquiao would be badly beaten but before that, de la joya said he feels like rejuvenated w/ his weight at 147 he said he feels young at that weight, I also remember hopkins said are you in dementia theres no way a small guy can beat a big guy...pacquiao at 147lbs. went down to 140lbs. to fight the real 140lbs. ricky hatton w/ a boastful mouth like his trainer nobody can beat him in his current weight of which he is a champion so where is he now, but I still believe that de la joya or hatton still can pull a trigger but not to pinpoint at pacman just fight to other boxer w/ an exception to pacman..so let make it this way at 143.5 lbs. pacman vs. cotto thats fair and square if cotto fans dont like that weight youd better go home and plant potato in your garden...
Monday Jul 13, 2009 09:59:15 AM
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airen:
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Please don't mention the dehydration issue : don't ever think of it, because that word will be used to be an alibi...early alibi to the losser.
145 catch weight is fair! for Manny vs Cotto
Alibi means hard losers attitude!!! or Coward!!!!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 10:00:10 AM
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Malasmas:
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WHAT IS THE USE OF CATCHWEIGHT AT 143 0R 145 LBS WHEN DURING THE FIGHTNIGHT PAC AND COTTO ARE BLOATED AT 148-152 LBS. CATCHWEIGHT TO ME IS NONSENSE. PACMAN MY IDOL, FIGHT THEM AT FULL WELTERWEIGHT SCALE IF YOU THINK YOU CAN OR FIGHT THEM AT 140 LBS. DON'T TARNISH YOUR IMAGE AS POUND FOR POUND KING BY CRIPPLING YOUR OPPONENT BEFORE THE FIGHT.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 10:02:13 AM
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Digby:
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This fight would have been great, if the fight was held in 147, but with all this catch weight it becomes a BS. I am a Filipino, but with this kind of catch weight shit, I just lost my respect to MP. If you your the P4P and want to fight the best out there then don't make fight Cotto at 147. I mean the guy is willing to go down 145, but asking 2 more ridiculus pound in you advantage. Where is the challenge in that, you beat drain out fighter so just you can say you won 7 title. I rather not watch this fight, if MP gets his way at 143, you can count me rooting for Miguel Cotto. And I hope Miguel kick his ass. MP is just another ODLH a greedy fuck. MP too damm ambitious he want to a Congressman, who never had a law degree. I mean what kind of an idiot is this guy. If you want to help our people help them another way, don't be one of does thief (ya magna na kaw) politicians in the PI. Yes! like I said, I am Filipino. I will not make any excuse for MP just b coz I am his own kind.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 10:04:14 AM
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joker:
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so it's ok for you that MARQUEZ vs MAYWEATHER is at 143-144 but here you are crying about PACQUIAO vs COTTO at the same weight (143-144) WTF! You are such a HATER!!! Before you write an article think about it first , you're showing your true color bro!!!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 10:05:24 AM
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Norman:
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CAN'T YOU SEE THAT BOXING IS A BUSINESS?
YOU JUST HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT.
DON'T WATCH IF YOU DON'T FEEL LIKE IT.
NO ONE IS FORCING YOU.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 10:08:18 AM
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sanc:
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I'm a Pac Fan. Manny will diminish the luster of the win over Cotto with this catch weight issue. If a fighter is not allowed the maximum weight of the division, the belt should not be on the line. If Manny wants to fight a welterweight, he should fight a welterweight. Otherwise, he should stay in the division he's comfortable with. He should not use his Manny Pacquiao Sweepstakes to ruin the careers of legitimate welterweights.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 10:11:54 AM
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Gil P. Acosta:
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143 is still within the welterweight weight range. Cotto is a welterweight champion, as such he should be able to fight within the welterweight weight range of greater than 140lbs but not exceeding 147 lbs. Who ever told a boxer to fight at the welterweight limit or ceiling of 147 lbs? Pacquiao is handicapping himself for fighting at 143 lbs outside of his 140 weight division. We all know that bigger and heavier boxers have stronger punching power and higher punch resistance. Cotto is not handicapping himself. He is just fighting within his welterweight division, so don't you all be silly. It is his problem if he made himself used to fight at the maximum welterweight limit. But by definition, he should be able to fight at 143. And why do you suggest that the welterweight belt be not included in this fight? Why is 143 not within the welterweight range? Man, think again.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 10:16:24 AM
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RayFromTheBay:
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I'm all for pacquiao's legacy! That being said, the fight should take place at 47 (pac can still win at 47) so no hater can say anything any more.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 10:28:24 AM
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justfan:
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Pacman started from 106 lbs. To have fought up to 147lb. is a tremendous feat in itself already. But you know, you can only fill a glass or your gas tank to a capacity that it was designed to hold, anything in excess will result in spill and waste. Same thing with a boat or any other object, if it is placed in water and the weight of the object is greater than the weight of the water it displaces, that ship or object will sink.
Pacquiao's physical stature is smaller than Cotto. Pacquiao's best fighting weight is at 138 lbs. Cotto's best fighting weigh is 147lb.
I agree with some posts that, if they have to fight at 147lb. which is Cotto's comfort zone, then, let the official weigh-in be held on the afternoon of the fight. This way, there would be not so much disparity of weight on the ring. This will also cancel criticisms on Pacquiao that he is trying to gain advantage on demanding Cotto to come down at 143lb. This way, Manny would be told he fought a legitimate welterweight AT THE MAXIMUM weight. This was in practice before, having the weigh in on the day of the actual fight. 147lb is the MAX weight in the welterweight. If people say that for Cotto to be asked to go down 143 is dehydrating him, then, it should be claimed as well that for Pacquiao demanding to go up to 147lb. is trying to bloat him.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 10:48:49 AM
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waether-weather lang!:
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Pacquiao can fight even at Midddle weight class, Let's all be honest to ourselves, The Promoter BOB ARUM and Coach Freddie Roach are the mastermind of this catchweights, And no offense to them, they are only doing whats is right for now. Giving a slight advantage to the P4P king. This will be the first time for PACQUIAO to have an edge. In his Boxing life he is alwasy the under-dog, I mean all of those exciting fight are all in favor with Pacquioa's opponent. I hope all the commentators here will understand my statement with Paquiao. If you want to fight Pacquioa then prove yourself you can your withdstand the obstacles around, we are talking of greatness here.If you want a piece of Pacquiao accept his challenge, If I were Manny i will set the catchweight at 142 Llbs. Chase the P4P king, may be you might end up also to be great. Thank you Peace....
Monday Jul 13, 2009 11:03:40 AM
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true welter:
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hey Frank!
why not go the other way around...Please write something why Cotto should not fight a skinny 140 pounder Pacquiao and find someone his own size. He should be fighting Mosely or Wiilams. Are you overestimating Pacquiao or just stupefied with the talent of Pacquiao? Remember, this is Pacquiao who is a natural lightweight at the most light welter against a natural welter Cotto. Please stop underestimating Cotto!. It should be Cotto trying to come down to level the field for a skinny opponent and acknowledging pacquiao for braving to challenge a bigger opponent.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 11:07:59 AM
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egay:
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haah.! can't say a word. Just guys remember pacman don't say much before the fight but after this fight don't be surprise this is the pacman farewell fight. pac hater wish granted...
Monday Jul 13, 2009 11:10:18 AM
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MIKAZTRO:
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Cathweight fights existed even 1904. Even the great Henry Armstrong fought in a catchweight fight. I don't think it diminishes every bit of the fight. A catchweight is for making the fight even for both sides just to make the fight happen. Here are some examples:
PROMINENT CATCH WEIGHT FIGHTS IN BOXING HISTORY
In the days when there were just eight weight divisions, catchweight bouts were commonplace.
Each boxer in such a fight was seen as taking a risk.
The smaller fighter would hope that his opponent might weaken himself making the agreed weight. For the bigger man, the gamble would be whether he could get down to the lighter weight and remain strong.
Here is a look, in chronological order, at 12 catchweight contests.
Joe Gans D20 Joe Walcott -- San Francisco, Sept. 30, 1904
Lightweight champion Joe Gans was the master boxer while welterweight champion Joe Walcott was an aggressive fighter whose nickname, The Barbados Demon, had been well-earned.
The shorter, much heavier-set Walcott was required to make 138 pounds at an unusual ringside weigh-in and according to the San Francisco Bulletin "saved his forfeit money by a very slight fraction" although the actual weights were not reported.
There were hints that the boxers might not go all out, but referee Jack Welch visited both men and reassuringly told the Bulletin: "I think the contest will be the best and squarest ever pulled off in San Francisco."
Welch was not far wrong, with the Bulletin reporting: "It was a great fight. Gans was the clever ring mechanic. Walcott was the same old Barbadoes [sic] hurricane. He carried the fight to Gans from the start and didn't seem to mind the facers that would either have slowed up the average fighter or put him out of commission."
When Welch signaled a draw the crowd booed, believing that Gans had won. Walcott, the Bulletin reported, was "tickled to death with the verdict and sprang forward and shook the referee's hand."
Jimmy McLarnin W10 Pancho Villa -- Emeryville, Calif., July 4, 1925
Belfast-born, Canadian-raised Jimmy McLarnin was an up-and-coming featherweight prospect when he faced flyweight champion Pancho Villa in a catchweight bout. Filipino Villa had the experience, but the 18-year-old McLarnin had youth and physical advantages in his favor. McLarnin weighed 122 pounds to Villa's 114 according to the Vancouver Sun.
Boxing enthusiasts thought that Villa would win "not so much because of his punching ability or ruggedness but because of his experience," the Sun reported. But McLarnin clearly outscored Villa, with the Sun reporting: "The dark-haired, short-armed fighting demon from the Philippines, the boss of the flyweights, could not penetrate the McLarnin defense. Jimmy smiled through the 10 rounds, fought carefully and didn't let the champion gain an advantage."
Tragically, Villa died in hospital in San Francisco eight days later. It transpired that Villa had been suffering from an infected jaw and had a wisdom tooth removed the night before the fight. He refused to pull out of the fight, not wishing the promoter to suffer financial hardship. The Sun reported that Villa apparently went into the ring with the "jaw nerves deadened by a drug to kill the pain." After the fight, the infection spread. Doctors performed immediate jaw surgery after Villa had been rushed to hospital but he "failed to rally from the effects of the operation."
Henry Armstrong TKO end of 6 Lew Jenkins -- Polo Grounds, N.Y., July 17, 1940
Welterweight champion Henry Armstrong was obliged to weigh in seven pounds under the division limit for his scheduled 12-rounder with lightweight champion Lew Jenkins. This was no problem for Armstrong, a featherweight champion who was small for a welterweight. Armstrong came in at 139 pounds, while Jenkins was just a half-pound over the lightweight limit of 135.
The fight held intrigue because Jenkins, from Sweetwater, Texas, was known to be a terrific hitter. New York Times columnist John Kieran was one of many who felt that Jenkins's big punch gave him a chance. "If he can land that punch on a dodging target like Armstrong he may do well for himself," Kieran opined in a prefight story.
Jenkins did indeed do damage. Joseph P. Dawson reported in The New York Times that Armstrong's left eye was swollen almost shut while his right eye "dripped a blinding flow of blood" after a desperation left hook opened an old cut. Armstrong was winning the fight, though. He took command from the fourth round and Jenkins was down seven times, unable to hold the stronger, superior fighter in Armstrong. Referee Arthur Donovan stopped the fight at the end of the sixth as Jenkins "writhed and groaned on his stool" in the words of reporter Dawson.
Emile Griffith TKO9 Dave Charnley -- London, Dec. 1, 1964
Dave Charnley, a world-class British lightweight of the 1950s and early '60s, was a tough, compact southpaw who could punch hard at 135 pounds. But he was in far over his head when he fought the welterweight champion, Emile Griffith, in a 10-round non-title bout at Wembley indoor arena in northwest London.
Griffith had just soundly beaten the Welsh southpaw Brian Curvis in a title fight in London. The Charnley fight was officially made at a weight of 148 pounds -- a pound over the welterweight limit -- but a private agreement between the parties stipulated that Griffith could not scale more than 145 pounds at the weigh-in on the day of the fight. Griffith looked big for the 147-pound division with his wide-shouldered physique, still making 145 pounds was not a problem for him.
Griffith overpowered Charnley and the referee called a halt to the bout after the smaller man got up from a knockdown. As Britain's The Times newspaper gloomily reported: "Charnley was never in with much of a chance against the champion of the division above him."
Charnley fought two other welterweights at a catchweight, losing a disputed decision against Brian Curvis, whom he knocked down, and stopping the European champion of the time, London's Peter Waterman, in the fifth round, although Waterman was coming to the end of his career.
Ray Leonard TKO9 Donny Lalonde -- Las Vegas, Nov. 7, 1988
There wasn't a big enough size advantage to compensate the gulf in talent between Lalonde, left, and Leonard.
Sugar Ray Leonard won two titles in one night when he stopped Donny Lalonde -- capturing the Canadian's WBC light heavyweight title while also winning the inaugural WBC super middleweight belt.
Due to the super middle title being at stake, Lalonde was required to weigh no more than 168 pounds. He talked a great fight, referring to the 32-year-old Leonard as an "old, fat welterweight." While Lalonde fought well early, even scoring a knockdown, Sugar Ray proved to be a different class in terms of talent.
When the boxers weighed in on the morning of the fight, Leonard's weight was announced as 165 pounds, two pounds lighter than Lalonde. He said in the postfight press conference, however, that his true weight was 159-and-a-half pounds. Leonard, who had weighed in wearing a track suit, said he had secretly placed weights in each pocket.
Terry Norris TKO4 Meldrick Taylor-- Las Vegas, May 9, 1992
Welterweight champion Meldrick Taylor faced a daunting task against Terry Norris, the champion at junior middleweight, but his camp negotiated a weight limit of 150-and-a-half pounds. This was three-and-a-half pounds inside the weight limit for Norris' division. The hope was that this would level the playing field.
Fighting at a catchweight of 150-and-a-half pounds wasn't enough to tip the scales in favor of Taylor, left.
The clash of champions was keenly anticipated, with columnist Royce Feour writing in the Las Vegas Review-Journal: "The Norris-Taylor bout is one of the most ideal matchups that can be made in boxing today."
Once the fight started, though, the physical advantages of Norris, who weighed 149 pounds, quickly became apparent. Taylor won the first round on two judges' cards but was then overpowered. As I reported from ringside for Boxing Monthly: "Taylor has fast hands, but he seemed physically and psychologically shaken by the rapidity of Norris's punching -- and Norris was hitting far harder."
Paulie Ayala W12 Johnny Tapia -- Las Vegas, Oct. 7, 2000
Paulie Ayala and Johnny Tapia had staged a sizzling 12-round battle in the bantamweight division in June 1999. Although Ayala won a unanimous decision -- in a big upset -- there were many who disagreed with the verdict. Among them, of course, was the emotional Tapia, who later told me in a telephone interview that he was convinced he had won, "down as far as you can go in my heart."
Tapia had moved up to the featherweight division and Ayala was still a 118-pounder. The two agreed to meet at 124 pounds. Tapia's trainer for the bout, Jesse Reid, told me over the phone before the fight that he thought his man would be "super strong" coming down in weight to 124. But Ayala's trainer, Henry Mendez, said in a phone interview: "I don't think the little extra weight will make much difference. Paulie's very strong, even though he's a little man."
The rematch was just as good as the first bout, maybe better. Once again, Ayala won by unanimous decision, but, much like the previous fight, the decision was disputed. Jesse Reid angrily proclaimed that Tapia had given Ayala a boxing lesson, but it looked desperately close. As I reported from ringside for Boxing Monthly: "Tapia had many good moments, but so did Ayala. Just when you thought one man was getting on top, so the other came back."
Bernard Hopkins KO9 Oscar De La Hoya -- Las Vegas, Sept. 18, 2004
Middleweight champion Bernard Hopkins was so eager to make the biggest purse of his career against Oscar De La Hoya that he was willing to give a little in negotiations. Most significant, was his agreeing to the Golden Boy's stipulation that the match be made at a catchweight of 158 pounds, two pounds inside the middleweight limit. In the event, Hopkins came in at the surpassingly light weight of 156 pounds.
If De La Hoya hoped that reducing weight would affect Hopkins's stamina, he got it wrong. As I reported from ringside for Boxing Monthly: \\"As he gained momentum, Hopkins actually appeared faster than De La Hoya, and coming out for the ninth, the Executioner from Philadelphia looked as if he could keep going strong for many more rounds than the mere four that remained.\\"
Hopkins was to box in another catchweights bout when, as light heavyweight champion, he agreed to meet leading middleweight Winky Wright at a weight of 170 pounds on July 7, 2007, at the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas. Hopkins carried the weight far better than a soft-looking Wright and dominated the last four rounds to win a unanimous decision.
Jose Luis Castillo KO4 Diego Corrales -- Las Vegas, Oct. 8, 2005
All of the boxing world eagerly awaited the lightweight championship rematch between Jose Luis Castillo and Diego Corrales after their sensational fight four months earlier, won by Corrales in the 10th round.
Castillo, however, failed to make the 135-pound limit for the return fight. After weighing in three times, he was still three-and-a-half pounds overweight. He was fined $120,000 -- 10 percent of his purse -- by the Nevada State Athletic Commission. The fighters' camps huddled to try to find a way to salvage the fight. Finally, it was agreed that Corrales would go through with the scheduled 12-rounder on the understanding that Castillo weighed no more than 147 pounds at a special, Nevada commission-supervised weigh-in at 3 p.m. on fight day.
Castillo made the weight, and the fight was on -- except that now it was a catchweight bout, with the officially announced weights being 139-and-a-half pounds for Castillo, 135 pounds for Corrales.
The Corrales camp went into the fight believing it had done all it could to make an equal fight, but as I reported from ringside for Boxing Monthly: \\"The difference in the physical strength, vitality and power of the two men once the fight started was soon evident.\\"
A crunching left hook finished Corrales in the fourth round, but the late warrior told the postfight press conference: \\"I'm not going to muck up his win by even entertaining the thought that he had an unfair advantage. Whether he made the weight or not is not the point. He came out there and did a good job today.\\"
A rubber match was cancelled after the weigh-in when Castillo again could not make the lightweight limit. This time the Corrales side walked away.
Amazingly, it was Corrales who failed to make weight for a lightweight title bout against old rival Joel Casamayor on Oct. 7, 2006. The bout, at the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas, went ahead at catchweights, with Casamayor eking out a split decision over a sluggish Corrales.
Henry Maske W12 Virgil Hill -- Munich, March 31, 2007
[+] EnlargeHenry Maske and Virgil Hill
Theo Klein/Getty ImagesMaske, right, took Hill out of his comfort zone of 200 pounds to avenge a previous loss.
Henry Maske waited 10 years before stepping into the ring for a rematch with Virgil Hill, who had handed him his only professional defeat.
Their first fight had been at light heavyweight. Hill was now a 200-pound cruiserweight. Maske negotiated the return fight at a catchweight of 190 pounds.
Although Maske had not boxed in a decade, he trained long and hard and sharpened up his skills with two private bouts -- real fights to which the public and press were not invited. In the fight between two 43-year-olds, Maske looked the stronger man, clearly outpointing Hill to the great delight of the crowd.
Ricardo Mayorga W12 Fernando Vargas -- Los Angeles, Nov. 23, 2007
Fernando Vargas wanted to leave boxing with a win after having been knocked out by Sugar Shane Mosley. He weighed 154 pounds for the Mosley fight but, as was his tendency, Vargas packed on the pounds when out of training. The fight with Ricardo Mayorga, a junior middleweight, was originally made at 162 pounds before the limit was upped to 164 pounds. Vargas looked muscled at the weigh-in, but he seemed bloated by the time he got into the ring and Mayorga won a majority decision.
Roy Jones Jr. W12 Felix Trinidad -- New York City, Jan. 19, 2008
Although Roy Jones Jr. had been boxing as a light heavyweight, he agreed to meet middleweight Felix Trinidad at the middle-of-the-road weight of 170 pounds. Jones, weighing his lightest in six years, looked like the much bigger, stronger man as he dominated the last eight rounds, scoring two knockdowns on his way to a unanimous decision.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 11:16:36 AM
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#1 Pacfan "R.I.P. Arturo Gatti":
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You fogot to mention Whitaker-Chavez when they fought at a catchweight and at stake was the World Title. Though Iagree with most of your points I still think a fight at 145lbs sounds more reasonable. Cotto weighed in at 146 in his last fight whats one pound. But I do agree that all this catchweight is just going to tarnish his accomplishments and there will always be a cloud of doubts from experts. Fight at 147 and glory will be earned.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 11:19:44 AM
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boxing:
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143 is still between the welterweight but you dont see shane fighting at 143 or margarito or cotto or clottey or cintron, williams ...fuk the catch weights to all those pacnutthugers- if pacman wants to get that welter weight belt, then dont use that stupid excuse that oh this guy started at 106 pounds, so what then dont move up in eight, fight for the welter weight belt in the same weight that the rest of the welterweights i mentioned are fighting in at at limit of 147. so if cotto wants to fight in at 147 then they should let him if pacman wants to come in at 143 then let him. dont put a catch eight limit, if he and all the pacnutthugers think that its too much weight then he can stay at junior welter and actually defend it atleast once before trying to get a welter weight belt, but he knows that there isnt much money at 140. he took it all by beating hatton who had the money at 140. doesnt mean there isnt dangerous fighters at 140 but hatton was the most money u could get at 140. anywey i agree with this artical and pacman no matter how small your fans are saying that you are if you want the welter belt then fight cotto at 147, if you beat him u/l hav even greater respect then beating him at 143.\
Monday Jul 13, 2009 11:36:05 AM
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LC :
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Both guys are grown men and can decide what weight they will fight. We know both guys are fighting for legacy and money. And both are PRIME. Cotto is naturally bigger and stronger. Pacquiao is naturally smaller fighter. Both don't want to be at disadvantage. Why does it matter if sanctioning body approved that is title fight and agreed at catchweight? It should. Fight fans should be enjoying these two great fighters and fight fans care less what weight they agreed so long it happens. If it makes fair for both guys, meeting half way is @ 144 is more than reasonable.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 11:49:36 AM
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cezpel:
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It's amazing that you consider yourself a boxing scribe yet display umbrage at the suggestion of a negotiated weight limit, a business process between two mature professionals who know what they are going to agree with! They will agree to whATever terms finally because it's what they will find reasonable for the renumeration they will get! If it is not acceptable as a business decision, they can always walk! Again the welterweight limit is what has traditionally been set as the MAXIMUM weight for a certain division as it's limit, but there is no such thing as a MINIMUM weight. Thus there is nothing illegal, immoral or even non compliant with the rules for an agreed upon weight limit provided it is at or BELOW 147 lbs. So quit your crying and looking for excuses for the next KO victim of Pacquiao!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:01:20 PM
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El Toro:
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In boxing, maximum weight is the only concern. So let them do it at 145lbs. Nobody cares if Manny weighs 138lbs during weigh-in as long as Cotto comes in at 145 or less. If Manny wins, he can still have the Welterweight belt.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:08:30 PM
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Vic:
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I love the idea of a PAC-COTTO @ 143. i only want PAC to win. i dont care if it's one sided. so the dream of a mayweather and PAC is still alive. lets go cotto. fight PAC AT 140-143. DONT BE CHICKEN!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:17:51 PM
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d rose:
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your example of spinks vs holmes is a bad one. at heavy weight, a fighter has either power or speed (except maybe tyson). the smaller fighter is usually faster but the bigger fighter is usually more powerful. now when you go down to featherweight to welterweight, speed is not much an advantage. a lot of welterweights have the same speed as featherweights. but the bigger fighter is always more powerful. now if you are trying to match a person who's fighting weight is normally lightweight to a person who's a welterweight, the lightweight will always be at a disadvantage. that is why catch weights are created to make the dream fights happen.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:19:33 PM
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zigman:
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If both fighters agreed on weight isssue, then their shouldn't be any excuses on both camps after the fight.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:20:26 PM
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nada:
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i see your a pac hater in disguise..........you want pacman to lose..if pacman fights ruiz right now he'll beat the hell out of ruiz. we are talking about cotto here, he's very dangerous like a deathwish for pacman. lets get real, at 147 pacman is much slower and lacks power compared to 140, just compare the de lahoya and the hatton fight. it would be unfair if pacquiao ask cotto to fight him at 141, but 143 or let's say at 143.5, thats fair. manny always mentions that he's very lucky after he won his fights recently, i don't think he will be saying that when he fights cotto at 147, peace.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 12:56:40 PM
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Natromgon:
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This will be a fight between a jr welter and a welter. The fighter who wants the fight more will definitely concede. Although this will be a big money fight, I think that outside of MP, Cotto's chances to find big money fights such as this is incomparable to MP's chances to find other big time fights. Because of that, he has no choice but to concede the weight to MP. Enough of this "legacy" thing, MP already cemented it. Moreover, like one dude asked here, which one would you rather select? A dehydrated Cotto or an artificially bloated MP? I think depending on which side you're on, your choice is obvious. So to solve this dillema, there should be catchweight, between 143 and 144 tops.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:03:39 PM
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PacManiac:
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PACQUIAO is the best!!!!!!! No Doubt
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:20:30 PM
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beez:
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im not against catch weight fights but what i am against is catch weight fights for the title because i feel the cotto had to weigh under 147 to win it why should he have to weigh under 143 to defend it if pacquiao needs a catch weight to try to become a welterweight champ then he doesnt belong in the welterweight division he should be at the LWW and if he beats cotto i think he shouldnt be recognized as he WW champ because it doesn't allow the full limitations for a fighter to weigh the WW limit as far as im concern he would be crownd the 143 catch weight champion
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:25:53 PM
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dan17808:
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Let team pacquiao agree with weight in at 147 but must have a clause that at fight night the weight of cotto should not go beyond 150. :) was there a proposal like this ever made?
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:28:08 PM
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shadow warrior:
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I don't think Cotto is stupid to fight Pac at a weight where he'll be disadvantaged.
Pac challenges naturally bigger opponents,
isn't that alone commendable?
And some writers are still asking him to do some more?
c'mon guys, I hope you won't expect Pac challenge Klitchsko????
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:32:21 PM
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#1 Pacfan "R.I.P. Arturo Gatti":
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More writers outa write artilcles like this so it sends out a message to Pacquiao and his team that they are getting nothing but green in this. Let's boycott this fight if at a catchweight!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:42:19 PM
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Pitbull:
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Why not fight Pac at his own best weight? say 135-140 lbs..THEY are the ones begging for a fight with Pac, and they should be the one going for Pac's weight not Pac going up for their weight. So i think the Catchweight is just fair..I pitty those filipino who wants pacman to fight at 147, let Pacman decide for his own body coz he knows his own potential..
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:45:01 PM
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micliam:
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Manny does not care of your opinions, all of you may have your most superb technical calculations, your most logical observations, but it is not your body and lifes future that is at stake. After 52 fights and thousands of stories heard of other boxers, futures, you can not blame the guy of thinking that way. In as much as a lot of us wanting things to happen like we wanted, everything boils down to what the fighters think are advantageous to them and their future.
Readers, close your eyes......imagine that you are manny........think that it was you fighting hard against those mexican guys......imagine that you already have millions of dollars in the bank ....... think that you have achieved great heights in popularity........and lastly imagine.......the pains of the hard trainings and hard punches you absorbed the last decade or more.......then decide who to fight and at what weight you want it happening........hehe
Monday Jul 13, 2009 01:58:48 PM
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micliam:
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Manny does not care of your opinions, all of you may have your most superb technical calculations, your most logical observations, but it is not your body and lifes future that is at stake. After 52 fights and thousands of stories heard of other boxers, futures, you can not blame the guy of thinking that way. In as much as a lot of us wanting things to happen like we wanted, everything boils down to what the fighters think are advantageous to them and their future.
Readers, close your eyes......imagine that you are manny........think that it was you fighting hard against those mexican guys......imagine that you already have millions of dollars in the bank ....... think that you have achieved great heights in popularity........and lastly imagine.......the pains of the hard trainings and hard punches you absorbed the last decade or more.......then decide who to fight and at what weight you want it happening........hehe
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:09:54 PM
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ppls champ \:
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first of all, i am a Pacquiao fan and i believe the 143 is actually a mismatch but Pacquiao should decide what weight they would fight bcoz hes the man who makes boxing an interesting sports. no pacman no boxing.. i truly believe that.. if anyone wants to fight pacquaio they should respect and fight the weight limits that he demands right? no offense but i really think that pacquiao is the king of the boxing now.. if cotto fight pacquiao and beat him at 143 ppl would be shock but isnt that wat cotto wants? to be one of the greatest 2day well, of course every boxer wants that.. and yes perhaps cotto wants the enormous money.. however, if he doesn't wants to fight pacquaio regard of his demands.and there's no way pacquaio is gonna fight if his demands have not been approved.. and i know.. all of us writing here totally wants an interesting fight! i can absolutely assure you that pacman pacquaio can bring that! :) and i feel sorry for floyd mayweather when he fights pacquaio hes bastard mouth will be shut! i know we all want that too..
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:48:31 PM
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The Greatest's Greatest Fan:
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Personally, I don't have that much interest in the boxers that are fighting today. Over the years, I guess I have finally become "old-school,” which is something I simply hated about "old people" in my youth. Yet, I would much rather read about Robinson, Ali, and Leonard than the fighters of today. That said, I do root for Pacquiao because I know he means as much to the people of the Philippines as Ali once (and continues to) meant to me. What I enjoyed most about this article is Frank Lotierzo's wonderful command of the current state of boxing and how he relates the current situations with those that occurred in the past. When Ali was fighting, there was nothing - absolutely nothing- that escaped me concerning the heavyweight division. Frank -to my amazement- is that way about every division in boxing. I, too, pride myself as a bit of a boxing historian, and from that position I will say that I have never seen a boxing writer with a better command of boxing history or strategy -both inside and outside the ring- than Frank. I am so pleased that he has seriously taken up his calling again.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 02:54:43 PM
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vic:
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PACQUIAO IS THE GREATEST. WITH OR WITHOUT COTTO. COTTO SHOULD FIGHT HIM @140.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 03:44:36 PM
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LC :
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Both guys are grown men and can decide what weight they will fight. We know both guys are fighting for legacy and money. And both are PRIME. Cotto is naturally bigger and stronger. Pacquiao is naturally smaller fighter. Both don't want to be at disadvantage. Why does it matter if sanctioning body approved that is title fight and agreed at catchweight? It should. Fight fans should be enjoying these two great fighters and fight fans care less what weight they agreed so long it happens. If it makes fair for both guys, meeting half way is @ 144 is more than reasonable.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 05:23:22 PM
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MisterLee:
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144 or 145 please! Should be an intersting fight, nov 7th, ward kessler, nov. 14th, pacquiao cotto. Oh yeah, and nap time on sept. 19th! :)
Monday Jul 13, 2009 05:41:37 PM
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jchamp1981:
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I agree the fight should be at 147 if not then there should be no belt involve and pacquiao gets his witch an fights cotto at 143 an demolishes his ass,because every body knows that cotto is no oscar or hatton his better then both in this era,so please stop putting cotto in there category,oscar is been done he was just a pay check for pacman, hatton in the other hand, mayweather exploited him for every body to know he has no defense and dont talk about malinagi ,cause cotto demolished him,no comparison at all.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 06:09:33 PM
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Radam G, a humble PacManite spitting reality and actuality:
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Hum! I don't believe that you are a complete "boxing-purist," Fightwriter F-Lo. You are quite prejudice when it comes to Sugar Ray Robinson. SRR is no different from a lot of champions. He did bum things like most of them have. The purist champion ever in the game is GOAT Ali. Ali fought all comers and the U.S. government and U.S. America's society injustices and wacked-out racist belief. Sugarman would not fight if he had a ingrown toenail, if he had a bad feeling or if the opponent was a "colored" American contender. The prime, great SRR only fought one black person -- British Turpin (name maybe misspelled) in a title bout. Than again Turpin -- who beat him once -- was not fully a black man. He was bi-racial. The boxing career of a prize fighter is not long. One should use any means to get the biggest purse. Sugar Ray Robinson didn't fight Maxim exclusively to win the lightheavy title. He fought him for a nice purse. The Sugarman could have always fought him in a rematch in the winter time for the title. (Like the great Carmen Basilio who beat SRR, I don't buy that heat jive.) But the money was not there. Boxing is about BIG banking. And it has always been. The best gets paid BIG or sue -- like me. Those who are not so good fight for the pride and pureness of it. But greats like PacMan, Cotto and Money May are great price fighters, not pride fighters. Price is much better than pride when you look back at your career. PacMan stops an empty Cotton in four rounds. Thanks for telling the phonies that losing unnatural weight will harm you 100 percent of the time. But even a full welter -- not drained -- Cotto will lose to PacMan without his uncle in his corner. Cotto is not as good without the magic of that old Unc. And PacMan is going to kayo Money May with Uncle Roger in the corner. I'm calling it now. Pera Pac kayos Money May in three rounds or less. Holla!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 06:09:53 PM
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#1 Pacfan "R.I.P. Arturo Gatti":
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Okay, here we go I've thought about this and I think this should be good. Since Cotto is the WW Champ and Manny is the P4P Champ they're both staking a title. So there is a lot at stake for both fighters which is why I will finally agree that a catchweight is very reasonable. Meet halfway and the titles are on the line. Many of us don't realize that Manny has a lot to lose in this match-up. If Manny were to lose he would lose his status as to being the MAN. If Cotto were to lose then it's like they have the excuse that they were brought down in weight. Cotto would have more to gain in this as he beat MP who is the MAN( attraction, money man P4P champ).
Monday Jul 13, 2009 06:24:48 PM
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Prime1:
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First of all the Pacman has so far never fought at a catchweight. He has so far had to go up in weight to challenge heavier opponents like Barrera, Diaz and ODLH.
Second, both Mosely and Cotto are the ones challenging Manny because they are after the big purse that Manny brings to the table. Since they out size and out weigh Manny by 10-15lbs. it is only logical for Manny to ask for a catchweight which is well within the welterweight limits.
It's high time the Boxing organizations make some changes to the weigh-in rules to prevent fighters from dehydrating themselves to meet the weight then ballooning by more than 10lbs before the fight.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 06:33:43 PM
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Gustavo A. Neri Jr.:
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Resolve the weight issue between Pacquiao and Cotto this way; Let them fight at no more than 147 pounds on fight night--meaning, they have to make a final re-weigh, say, one or two hours before the actual fight.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 06:46:29 PM
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BoxingKlinik:
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MAKE THE FIGHT AT 147. BUT MAKE THE WEIGH-INS THE SAME NIGHT OF THE FIGHT. FAIR ALL THE WAY AROUND.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 07:45:54 PM
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pete steward:
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The catch weight gives Manny a level playing Vs these welterweight monsters like cotto who like to come in 20 POUNDS or MORE the night of the fight. Roach is a real coach. He has Mannys best interest.... HIS HEALTH.... God bless him. Eddie Futch would be proud.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 07:54:52 PM
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Furious:
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The fight push through at 144lb, and im sure about it.
they are just making noise, part of their marketing strategy.
Pacquiao wants it 143lb and Cotto on the other hand wants it at 145. both guys will eventually give in to make this exciting fight materialize at 144lb.
Cotto fought Clottey at 146, so 2 more pounds to shred wont make him look bad come figh night
Monday Jul 13, 2009 07:55:51 PM
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Erudite:
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A win for MP at a catch-weight of 143 would be a win with an astericks and a question mark! Make it at 147 with the weigh-in on the morning of the fight.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 08:06:03 PM
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lillou:
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if pac-man really wents to get the respect of a real welterweight then he should fight at 147 not at junior welterweight. everbody knows that cotto will be drained out fighting at that weight.i really dont have to much respect for fighters that fight one fight in diffrent weight class and act as though they were world champions. delahoya did the samething picking fighters that had flaws , but came short whan they fought the best.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 08:22:06 PM
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GNOB:
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I agree mr .writer. Fight at a catchweight but without the welterweight belt. It would still be exciting for all of us and draw a lot of money for both. I know that Pac can beat cotto at 147. But if he fought a weight drained cotto at 143, then there's no doubt as to who will win.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 08:44:24 PM
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the Roast:
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What the Hell? Is it free pizza night tonight?
Monday Jul 13, 2009 08:49:25 PM
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jackbw69:
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Cotto blows up to 160lbs on fight night. He's a middleweight fighting at welterweight. Manny's people just want to limit Cotto's size at the time of the actual fight. I betcha if they had a choice they'd rather have a same-day weigh-in at 154lbs.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 09:02:16 PM
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ultimoshogun:
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Looks like we're too late Roast.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 09:09:31 PM
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Marco Polo:
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Nobody is mentioning about when pacquiao is dehydrated(barrerra and marquez) and can no longer or almost cant make it at super featherweight but still he won those big fights and nobody give props from what he achieve before. and nobody mention about how he demolished hatton with his own weight class. i believe that pac will win this one.. no matter what weight cotto wants. pacquiao possess the supreme gift in boxing. a little definition of welterweight ladies and gents. "A welterweight boxer weighs in at between 140 pounds (63.5 kg) and 147 pounds (66.7 kg). -WIKIPEDIA" any weight between that is still a welterweight. Anyway as for now i believe they dont care to much about boxing fans. what is important to them is money.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 09:14:26 PM
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ali @ Radam G:
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Stop bringing up race im not all black cause my ancestors was rape but I consider myself black and that's all that counts. Quit trying to compilate it I get tired of you acting like you know about what every fighter race is. My suggestion to you is to sick with that boxing side of the subjects the writers post and not the race side.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 09:40:31 PM
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#1 Pacfan "R.I.P. Arturo Gatti":
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@BoxingKlinik and Gustavo, If both guys weigh in at 147 at day of the fight then it would still be Cotto at a disadvantage. You mean Pacquiao come in 147 or 148 while Cotto come in 155-160 so both be well rehydrated.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 10:11:10 PM
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shark:
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145 is a fair weight
If pacquiao wants Cotto's title lets fight at 145 not 143
And is he believes he can't fight at 147 with Cotto, finf another boxer.
De la Hoya was dehydrated, so is an asterick
Is about advantages, he wiil have a bigger portion of the money, nice but also wants Cotto dehydrated, if he is not sure well figth with another one.
Is good to be mention as the P4P but don't try to have advantages always.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 10:33:12 PM
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ragnarok NCbatle_realms:
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PACMAN GET HIS LIFE IN DANGER TO FIGHT IN NATURAL WELTER WT..TO ABSORB BLOWS..WHEN HE GETS OLDER..HE WILL HAVE PARKINSON DESEASE..A BLOW ABSORB IN THE HEAD...
PACQUIAO IS THE MAIN MAN HERE....SO LET COTTO CATCH THE WEIGT. AT 143...
IF COTTO WANT TO BE P4P KING..FIGHT ALL WELTER WEIGT,LIGHT WEIGHT,FEATHER WEIGHT...THATS A TRUE WARRIOR..COTTO "CHIKEN MAN"...
Monday Jul 13, 2009 10:35:25 PM
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BRO:
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IF PACMAN INSIST IN A CATCHWEIGHT HE WILL BECOME THE
"DRAIN YOUR POUND KING" OF THE WORLD!
I AM A FILIPINO AND I DONT LIKE PACMAN IS BEHAVING NOW!
HE LOST AND BLOATED HIS HEAD!
FIGHT COTTO AT 147! STOP MAKING EXCUSES THAT YOU ARE SMALL! COTTO AT 5'7 AND YOU @ 5'6 ONLY ONE INCH DIFFERENTIAL!
TYSON FIGHT HUGE BOXER WITH 30-50 LBS DIFFERENTIAL!
WITH NO CATCHWEIGHT!
YOUR LEGACY SHOULD NOT BE TAINTED FOR JUST 2-3 LBS.
YOU HAVE YOUR TALENT, SKILLS, SPEED
BUT IF YOU ARE COWARD AND YOU ARE AFRAID TO COMPROMISE
YOU CANNOT BE ALL TIME GREAT!
I THINK PACMAN LACK OF HEART AND CONFIDENCE NOW!
I LOVE HIM TO GET KNOCK OUT BY COTTO IF HE INSIST ON A CATCHWEIGHT!
KAKAHIYA KA PACMAN!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 10:39:51 PM
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Carlito:
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Frankly Mr. F-Lo, your arguments are as a valid as a DelaHoya statement. The fact of the matter is Cotto weighs in at about 160 come fight night, whereas pacquiao weighed 149 or so in the Hatton fight. Cotto came in to weigh 146, whereas Pacquiao weighed in 138. They are 8 pounds apart, and at nearly identical height. Whats so wrong about a catchweight where both can meet each other at even ground? Pacquiao would be giving up 5 pounds and Cotto would be giving up 3 pounds. Whats the big deal with that?? This is the pound for pound argument so why cant they meet with that even weight? Why does Pacquiao have to go up to 145 or 147 and give up 8 or 9 pounds in advantage? He's not really after the title, Bob Arum just wanted to put it in there to sweeten the deal for him. Why is Cotto giving up 3 pounds going to "drain" him? Please dont give me that bullshit excuse because we all know thats what DeLaHoya said happened to him 3 weeks after he got beat, the same DeLaHoya who said the 24/7 series that he's been wiehging 145 and is the best shape of his life, the same DeLaHoya would quit and acknowledge defeat to Pacman, also the same DeLaHoya who said to Hatton that Pacman doesnt hit hard.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 11:14:15 PM
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Carlito:
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Frankly Mr. F-Lo, your arguments are as a valid as a DelaHoya statement. The fact of the matter is Cotto weighs in at about 160 come fight night, whereas pacquiao weighed 149 or so in the Hatton fight. Cotto came in to weigh 146, whereas Pacquiao weighed in 138. They are 8 pounds apart, and at nearly identical height. Whats so wrong about a catchweight where both can meet each other at even ground? Pacquiao would be giving up 5 pounds and Cotto would be giving up 3 pounds. Whats the big deal with that?? This is the pound for pound argument so why cant they meet with that even weight? Why does Pacquiao have to go up to 145 or 147 and give up 8 or 9 pounds in advantage? He's not really after the title, Bob Arum just wanted to put it in there to sweeten the deal for him. Why is Cotto giving up 3 pounds going to "drain" him? Please dont give me that bullshit excuse because we all know thats what DeLaHoya said happened to him 3 weeks after he got beat, the same DeLaHoya who said the 24/7 series that he's been wiehging 145 and is the best shape of his life, the same DeLaHoya would quit and acknowledge defeat to Pacman, also the same DeLaHoya who said to Hatton that Pacman doesnt hit hard.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 11:15:12 PM
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BRO:
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PACMAN NOW DONT CARE ABOUT HIS LEGACY!
HE CARES MORE ABOUT MONEY!
ITS A SHAME FOR US FILIPINO
WHERE WE FIGHT FOR JUSTICE, GLORY AND PRIDE
BUT NOT FOR MONEY!
I HOPE PACMAN CAN READ MY COMMENTS STRAIGHT TO HIS FACE!
Monday Jul 13, 2009 11:21:30 PM
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otep:
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On Oscar's fight with Manny, 147 is the set limit even on fight night. ODLH was obliged to pay million of dollar for every pound above the stipulated 147 limit. If you say Cotto is a true welter, why not fight on terms the same with Manny and Oscar's showdown.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 11:21:31 PM
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barbass:
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some does not really gets...143 or 147, still advantage for MP.the higher the weight is, the more purse advantage for MP. if MC demands higher weight, of course, his purse percentage will lessens too. If he agrees(MC) at 143, \\"$$$$$$$$$$$$ \\"for MC. Hey bros., MP is the banker here...trust him...he's driving the game... whatever weight it would became, it's because both parties negotiates.
Monday Jul 13, 2009 11:40:54 PM
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Boymag:
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Pacman is truly the draw of this fight, he can demand anything he wants... if cotto will disagree the deal... Seeking another opponent is the best he can do.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 12:12:02 AM
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ahmad pj:
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manny is jr.wleterweight champ and this would be the first time to fignt with the real welterweight champ ( cotto - 147 lbs.).
team pacquaio wants to reassure that pacman would be safe enough to fight a bigger and younger man and a champ in that welterweight division.
i believe the next time around pacman would fight in welterwight division at 147 lbs. limit. this so because they want to use cotto as a testing ground for pacman to settle at 147 lbs.
100% pacman could beat cotto even at 147 lbs. because the humble and GOD-fearing man is destined for greatness.
Take my words and see that it would be written and so it would be done, comes the fight night.
There is only one great boxer in the world no other than the humble and GOD-fearing "Manny pacman Pacquiao".
I love you manny ...very much ... very much..
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 12:36:12 AM
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brownsugar:
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F-LO,.. I have to agree,............one ounce below147 and this ceases to be a welterweight fight,.. it's catchweight fight,... NO BELT SHOULD BE AT STAKE,.. even if the fight was at 145 Cotto loses vital biomass that will take weeks to replace even if he does rehydrate at a higher weight,..this fight is a joke,.. a travesty,.. beat the champ at the 147 limit or stick to the junior welters if your too small for 147...if Cotto has agreed to this arrangement,.. he'll have no one to blame but himself. and he will have deserved everything that he gets in the ring,.. the results will not be reversed by hindsight or second thoughts...and some regrets can last a lifetime,.. I hope he's getting paid very well to participate in this farce....because I doubt that he'll recover from this,..... very well thought out article..
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 12:58:51 AM
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Fe'Roz :
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In all the emotion, am I the only one who sees the irony in the critique being aimed at Manny for insisting on fighting at a catchweight against a clearly BIGGER opponent. The issue here is why is Miguel Cotto fighting a SMALLER GUY? The burden should be on Miquel to give us the answer, not Manny. Same with floyd! why should Marquez have to explain himself....he's fighting UP. Floyd and Miguel should 'pick on someone their own size'......or their fans (most of whom are stridently loyal to a fault) should, in The Don's Parlance: STFU !!!
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 12:59:27 AM
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Steve te hater:
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Finally somebody recognize that team Pacman are full of s...hit, people including myself and Pilipinos are criticizing Mayweather for picking his fighters,pacman is doing the same! he is trying to fight skeletons of big names by drain them and beat them so he can claim glory thats full of s..hit,he better stay away from Mosley he will beat the s...hit of him, that his ancestors will feel mosley punches back in the Pilipines,theres plenty of fighters around 140 lbs that can give him alot of trouble like cambell,Valero etc...he picks Cotto because he knows he can beat him at any weight,holla.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 01:02:55 AM
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Fe'Roz @ Steve the Hater:
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And Cotto picks Manny because (a) he thinks he can beat him and (b) make far more money than he will ever see again. If you were his manager, I assume you would advise him to take the bigger risk and less money (fighting a top welter) instead of fighting the SMALLER fighter for the most money he will ever see. Sounds very logical ....and a brilliant strategy....for a manager looking for another job. Suggestion: that day job of yours.: Keep it!!
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 01:13:56 AM
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Fe'Roz @ MIKAZTRO:
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Thank you for your research and your contribution. Your knowledge is always welcome on these pages.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 01:17:44 AM
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brownsugar:
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Fe'Roz Cotto isn't "picking" on a larger man,.. he never even called him out,..and Pac never called out Cotto,.. this fight is a product of the imagination of Arum in collaboration with Roach,.. go ahead with the fight if it's only about the money.,.. but don't call it a title fight,.. because welter is at 147 not 143,.. asking a bigger man to lose weight is a far greater burden than asking a lighter man to move up,.. because the smaller man literally doesn't have to do a thing,... while the larger guy goes thru a very arduous process to shed weigh (and vital biomass) that his body was never meant to lose... there is a difference.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 01:31:28 AM
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Steve the hater @ bromn sugar:
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Well said Brown sugar, thats what im talking about,holla.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 01:48:48 AM
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Pol Canonce Barugo, Leyte Phil.:
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All I can say is that; Team Pacquiao as well Team Cotto knows very well their economies and their point of sale. They are simply good marketing gurus and whatever concessions it will result to, it is a fair market value and please no more malicious notions.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 02:38:58 AM
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g2m of UAE:
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hey frank.. it seems like your a prejudice the way you deliver your entire story... dont blame pacquiao.. boxing is business man.. dont you get that.. and to all pacman fans who argue about the catch weight... shut your mouth, will yah!!! you cant blame pacquiao where in fact this time he may retire now... he got already the limitation being a true champion in boxing ( like being a pound for pound king), but pacquiao is using his brain as long he's still strong and agile, he will fight all big opponents for the sake of MONEY..well i respect pacquiao for that because in the first place in the sport of boxing, your not always strong forever, someone will knock you out if your getting old already..so as long as he can still punch fast and strong...business baby.. its all about business to have a tons of money.. gudluck pacman.. i like the nike phrase " ang mamatay ng dahil syo" - To die for the sake of you ( countrymen and nation)..
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 04:01:19 AM
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Malaysia Boleh:
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Forget catchweights, just have the weigh-in in the morning of the fight just like the way they used to do it before promoters started to insure their losses from no show by having previous day weigh-in.
Same day weigh-in is fair and healthier to the fighters as I doubt any fighter will be able to get a significant upper hand in weight come fight time.
The public must now demand a competitive fight of equal sized opponents instead of letting the promoters con us into a mismatch!
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 04:10:14 AM
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leonardo:
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"PACMAN NOW DONT CARE ABOUT HIS LEGACY! HE CARES MORE ABOUT MONEY! ITS A SHAME FOR US FILIPINO WHERE WE FIGHT FOR JUSTICE, GLORY AND PRIDE BUT NOT FOR MONEY! I HOPE PACMAN CAN READ MY COMMENTS STRAIGHT TO HIS FACE!"
easy BRO.. don't you think manny has done a lot already for that Justice, Glory and Pride you are saying.....he is still human like us....even then he has achieved miles away than we have or we ever will...... don't you think we are the ones who should be ashamed of trying to push him to fight anybody, for us to boast about if he ever wins.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 05:13:51 AM
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ragnarok NCbatle_realms:
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PACMAN GET HIS LIFE IN DANGER TO FIGHT IN NATURAL WELTER WT..TO ABSORB BLOWS..WHEN HE GETS OLDER..HE WILL HAVE PARKINSON DESEASE..A BLOW ABSORB IN THE HEAD...
PACQUIAO IS THE MAIN MAN HERE....SO LET COTTO CATCH THE WEIGT. AT 143...
IF COTTO WANT TO BE P4P KING..FIGHT ALL WELTER WEIGT,LIGHT WEIGHT,FEATHER WEIGHT...THATS A TRUE WARRIOR..COTTO \\"CHIKEN MAN\\"...
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 05:22:24 AM
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Joe Louis:
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Hey Cezpel, if you don't see whats wrong with your logic, then you don't know what you think you know. I bet you thought you made sense. OK. Lets fight with one hand tied behind your back.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 05:43:00 AM
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Fistic Fury:
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Catchweights are there to even the odds not to tilt them heavily in your favour ROACH.....
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 06:55:08 AM
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Fe'Roz @ Brownsugar :
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I agree with the latter part of your comment about weight loss and biomass....Mostly. one the other hand, f it was so easy to move up and fight bigger men the Evil Vic would be a three time champ instead of a chump above 115. You and I know both know that the little man also has significant disadvantages otherwise why have weight classes at all. Moreover, why haven't more fighters simply 'moved up' and become elite at higher levels. That said, I also agree with you that Arum, in this case, is promoting the fight.....but it is the fight that both he and his fighter(s) have determined is their best financial opportunity now. Both of them. It takes more than one party to make a business deal. Cotto has options. He can sit out or re-negotiate (buyout) his contract, fight another welter ....and so on. None of them are as good today however as fighting the Goldman Sachs of Boxing, Pacquiao. So set a weight, call it whatever you will (it is still a welterweight).....and title or no title, and bring it on. It will be a great fight regardless. once you sign, NO Excuses.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 07:16:29 AM
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jobz:
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didn't cotto weighed in at 146 before the clottey fight? i wouldn't think that 3 pounds lighter would be far from his optimum fighting weight.. to say the cotto will be weak and dehydrated at 143 is an over statement.. people just want to take the credit from pac before the fight even starts. There should be a compromise.. pac isn't a natural welter. i believe he's best weight is 140.. and to meet cotto halfway seems fair to me.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 07:33:49 AM
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k:
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heres the thing , let them fight at 147 but the weigh in is when they enter the ring lets see if cotto will last 20 seconds. Ill bet he gets killed with 1 punch and hell probably have to retire after the fight. still think its not fair? make it 150 the but it has to be on the same day of the fight, okay?
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 07:50:55 AM
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lillou:
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i;m glad that team cotto has not giving in to a catch weight. i read that they may pull out of the fight whice is good for boxing and cotto we don't want to see boxers give away there health for any amount of money. they have familys that need them well and healthy.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 07:59:43 AM
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ali:
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From time time you run into people you wish would grow up. They resort to calling you names like a child like I care what they think. When some one step up and tells them to shut up they get all emotional but I know how to deal with them my girl does the same thing. One!
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 08:39:42 AM
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#1 Pacfan "R.I.P. Arturo Gatti":
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And the gloves are off...Very good points as usual Fe'Roz; finally someone brings Floyd in the mix. Though this piece is not relatively about him he should have been. He is picking on a natural Featherweight guys and I haven't read a single article regarding that. @Radam, stick to your game don't these rookies get to you. @MMLee, where you at in this...Big D. and whomever is in the Pacfan Posse...spit that sht! Hit it back Payce!
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 08:50:53 AM
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ali @ Twinkle D:
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Shut the hell up I told him don't bring up race when he make a post he always trying to say this person ain't all black I don't want to hear that B.S anymore. So do me a favor say out of my business Radam don't need you to be his body guard Kevin Costner. ONE!
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 08:51:11 AM
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#1 Pacfan "R.I.P. Arturo Gatti":
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And the gloves are off...Very good points as usual Fe'Roz; finally someone brings Floyd in the mix. Though this piece is not relatively about him he should have been. He is picking on a natural Featherweight guys and I haven't read a single article regarding that. @Radam, stick to your game don't these rookies get to you. @MMLee, where you at in this...Big D. and whomever is in the Pacfan Posse...spit that sht! Hit it back Payce!
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 08:54:13 AM
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ali @ #1Pacfan:
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You too why are you coming to Radam rescue he don't need you to tell him to stick to his game his going to do that any way. I guest that rookie statement was for me like I told Radam I don't care what you think about me so calling me names is just a waste of time. one!
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 09:06:04 AM
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berraco47:
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Great article and I think that your absolutely right! This catch-weight stuff needs to stop. It's preposterous!!! If you're going to move up in weight then just move up! Stop looking for loop-holes. I don't mind that the fight is happening I think it will be a good scrap, but if it's at 143 don't throw the title in there also because I will never agree that Pacquiao is the Welterweight champion! For that he has to fight Mosley or Mayweather at 147!
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 10:40:52 AM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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Get 'em, you've been victimized!
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 11:29:07 AM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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Ali, you have a lot to learn in this TSS U, you reply; expect to get replied on.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 11:31:18 AM
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Big Daddy's Still Gettin' Filipina Love :
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What's Crackin' Pacfan!? Manny's ALREADY an All-Time Great Boxer,BUT all of these Catchweights diminish the sport. It allows there to be excuses before the fights even start. That's Not Cool. Life's Not Perfect , but Manny should be known for his Out-Sized Heart and not Gaming the System. If he wants True Boxing Glory, then he needs to be a True Welter.BTW.. MANY Filipinos speak 3 languages.. Tagalog, Spanish, and English.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 11:40:19 AM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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@Ali, you can't let your emotions take over. We've all been in so many heated debates but we all come to learn to control our emotions. Some comments are not intended for a paritcular person(race) but just pure opinion.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 12:20:00 PM
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Fistic Fury:
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Guys, I guarantee this is not the work of Pacman, he would fight any welter at 147lbs. It's cockROACH's work. Just let many fight the best in what ever division he's most comfortable, whether that be 140lbs or welter and stop with the catchweights...
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 12:25:59 PM
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Fistic Fury:
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* let Manny fight
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 12:27:19 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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Just postin at work. I used to feel that way but I've made up my mind, and I'm here to defend the catchweight issue. Like I said in my previous post that Manny has a lot more to lose than Cotto. If Manny's defeated he loses respect, P4P status, and the ability to get the bigger fights in the future. I don't really know how his body works but if he's not comfortable to fight at 147 then I would have to stand behind him and defend that issue. That's what a fan is all about. Though I believe he is a lot stronger at Welterweight than he thinks he is. I will gladly be happy to see him in action no matter what weight they fight at. There will always be critics. I stand for the catchweight.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 01:12:47 PM
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ali @ #1Pacfan:
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Who cares about what you and your TSS friends say about me if I have somethen to say im going to say it. I have alot to learn cause I make a comment about Radam post that you don't like, so what! get over it. Your going to roll with him weather he's right or wrong any way I know what he's doing but you and a couple of other people on TSS don't.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 02:12:49 PM
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Theboyb901:
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You people are blind. Floyd and Pacman and their teams are not much different from each other at all. They both pull the same BS behind the scenePr
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 02:17:57 PM
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donputo69 smoking an L:
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screw these catchweights....is either 147 or 140....and i know damn sure cotto is not going down...something tells me that pacquiao wants no part of cotto...pacquiao should man up...if he fought de la hoya at 147, so then why not fight cotto at 147?...147 or nothing....holla back!!!
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 02:50:10 PM
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brownsugar@Fe'Roz:
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Fe'Roz,.. I have no debate about the business end of it,.. if Cotto were to agree to something less than 147,.. or a weight that he's not comfortable with,... then he'll reap the consequences,.. .... but Pac's victory,.. to the broader boxing public would be viewed as being enabled by a "handicap" which is more insulting than a catch weight,.. come bring it like ARmstrong,... come bring it like Jones,.. bring it like Duran,.. come bring it like Fitzsimmons,...ARguello or even Pascal .... nobody said it was easy,..or else everybody would be doing it,.. but the one boxer who can move up and succeed is the same boxer they call GREAT!!! .... however beating a fighter at the scales before a fight,.. gets no glory for No-one...
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 03:19:47 PM
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Fistic Fury:
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Also guys whilst I don't like what I believe Roach is engineering (catchweights). I still think even at 147lbs Manny would destroy Cotto... Just my opinion. Mosley on the other hand is a different story...
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 03:30:23 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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@Donputo69, catchweight or not I still think Cotto will get his ass handed to him. I want to make one thing clear for everybody, Pacman would've destroyed ODLH even if he came in at 160 plus lbs. What else would he have brought to the table? He fought the same way he fought Mayweather it's just that Pac messed him up more. Let the excuses fly cause ya'll know Cotto will lose.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 03:39:15 PM
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Radam G, a humble PacManite -- US Prez Obama is mixed/resides from Hawaii, it's ASIAN Time:
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Some cyberspace bum is toasted and not the most -- just da most stupid latent big*t! Somebody ought tell that mudholed fool 2 come up 4 air and check himself b4 he wrecks himself. Dude is outta touch and in his own antwacky-tacky small world of deep darkness. I'm reminded of the book, "Uncle Tom's Cabin." Bet that sucka has never read it. Obama is da head mutt in his own words -- HE'S MIXED -- A MESTIZO HINOY -- straight outta Hawaii, not Compton. LONG LIVE PREZ BARACK OBAMA -- a mixed hero for da whole wirrllldddd! In the words of the GOAT Muhammad Ali, Prez O shook up da wirrllldddd! A bum calling himself ali oughta man up and grow up. Somebody tell da dude it is freedom time. Don't be mad. The latest is that Cotto is edging out of tangling with da Pac and Sugarlite off steroids is stepping forward for an ass whoopa whopping. Wow! Sugar Drained Mosley is ready to come down to a catch-a$$-whooping weight of 143 for his beatdown. Wow! Da _____ ought to like this. But it will be da same results. There is a long line of fighters and warriors from the Pilipinas doing a serious kickazz on da Buffalo soldiers. Golden Boy Production top man could not last with the Pac, so now he is sicing a buffalo soldier guilty of steroid use on Pera Pac. This is typical of the new "Manifest Destiny." But no genie in the corner of da sugarlite Buffalo soldier Drained Mosley will be effected. Manny will kayo Buffalo Soldier lite Drained Mosley in five and that is no jive. It's PacMan TIME. He is a DIME and will shine, shine, shine! HOLLA!
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 03:40:36 PM
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#1 Pacfan \:
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@Fistic, atleast you know what you're talking about. I am with you on Mosley he is the only fighter that will be difficult.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 03:43:26 PM
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Anony @ donputo69:
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I'm backing you up because we want to watch two fighters IN THEIR PRIME doing what they do best with no advantages or "tricky rules" like this catch weight issue. The problem here is that we (the fans) really want the fight to happens but I surely don't want to see Cotto 50% and loosing cause is not fair for him, for history and the fans. I'm thinking maybe this fight won't happen cause Cotto knows better than that and I'M SO SURE DLH did tell him to be cautious on this very issue. I bet DLH will give back all what he earned against Pacquiao just to recover his previous status before the Pacman fight. Reality is that it wasn't fair for him. Truth hurts.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 03:56:05 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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@Ali, hey my kids are mixed race(half Filipino half Mexican), does that make them no better than a full Mexican or full Filipino? That statement right there makes you look racist.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 04:10:25 PM
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donputo69 chillin in bklyn:
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@pacfan....blah blah blah.....excuses excuses excuses....yeah whateva...you know the truth hurts....so i aint gonna gonna waste my time...as for against DLH @ 160?....lmfaooooo.....i love pac and all...but at 160 he would get destroyed....freddie roach aint no fool....he knows he doesnt want to put pacman against cotto..im done with this conversation....the truth hurts.....holla back!!!
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 04:21:22 PM
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ECM-PR:
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Excellent article Frank! Agree that 147 lbs is the weight for Pac and Cotto to fight. I'm a Cotto fan but most of all a boxing fan. Fighting at a catch weight of 143 lb will always result in excuses by the heavier fighter (Cotto in this case) that he was dehydrated and the loss of energy to make the weight. Fight at 147 or fight a rematch with Marquez. Leave it for the big boys at 147 lbs to slug it out. Like Donputo and others have said, if you fought DLH at 147, why are you demanding the 143 catchup with Cotto?
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 04:31:28 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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@brownsugar, I respect your opinion but I'm sticking to my guns on this one. Dropping to 145 is not going to make a significant affect on Cotto's ability to fight comfortably. It's not like he is really old, he's barely going to turn 29 which is why I think it's reasonable.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 04:38:46 PM
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ali @ #1Pacfan:
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Listen Pac is Filipino & he's a hero to Filipinos....Muhammad Ali is a hero to black people and thats not to say he ain't a hero to any other race out there..ect. Look when Obama became president people was'nt saying we have the first black man in office but he's mix with white. Now if somebody would have said somethen like that the would have been a out rage in the black community. He would have never heard the last of it even though he might not have meant it in a bad way it just some things you should'nt say.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 05:21:33 PM
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Boxing Fan:
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I don't care much about the weight just sign the contracts already. I want the fight to happen already.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 05:24:11 PM
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ali @ Radam B:
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Im going to just laugh at your post from here on out your a funny guy a little emotional but that's O.K. Go smoke some bomb or have a few shots of somethen hard & it will calm your nerves. God bless you Brotha and have a wonderful day but remember what I told you about your post as long as you follow directions we won't have any problems. ONE! Shout to SchoolOfHardKnocks
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 05:36:29 PM
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MisterLee:
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Yo ali man, quite hatin' on Radam. He wasn't even directing any posts about you in the first place. The personal attacks make you look like a jealous schoolgirl b/c the popular girl (with big boobs) has more eye oggled on her. Radam has his knowledge, and sharing it on the TSS Universe is cool, besides you, next in line, and big ste, no one really minds him, and most enjoy his writing. He's the least racist guy on this site, but has made opinionated remarks ABOUT race on this forum, but never in a racist light, but bringing acts and positions of racism to light. I'm preparing crow for all the nay sayers in this pac cotto fight. Once cotto ain't getting his way, he'll try to body slam and low blow, and if DAT don't work, he'll get his "cotton feet" dancing going on, and try to run, EXCEPT, manny's footwork is 2 x faster, and his hands 3x faster than cotto. It's a dangerous fight for pac, but if he gets past that left hook after 3-4 rounds, it's smooth sailing for pac and not the gassed out, burned out, and beat up boricua. Here's a thing: if cotto will ever man up, he'll give some guys some rematches: mosley, clottey etc. Or is he gonna pull a Scareweather or Calzaghe: I don't do rematches (ie- i'm scared). And for the record, CAN"T EVA DOUBT #1 PAC SAGE, ya'll musta forgot, he called the evil vic fight right, and the maidana ortiz fight. the dude has a mf' crystal ball in his room, and the private conference calls of joe santiago to make his informed decisions. Holla back! Andre Ward 2009! Mister Lee grillin' some crow, who wants first servings? Round 1: froch late rd tko over the Fatrix dirrell , Ward SD over kessler, abraham 8th rd tko over taylor. Pc out! tss rulez!!!
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 05:58:43 PM
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brownsugar:
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OH,.. I'm watching the fight even if Cotto weighs as much as a cornish hen,.. but 145,.. make it 147 and go down as the GOAT,.. Pac'sgot the potential to beat him at 147,.. but at 147 Cotto only needs to land one good left hook,.. fight over...I don't want to see Pac lose either,.. he is also a favorite of mine,.. but in principle I'd rather not see anymore catchweights that cripple one boxer,.. and empower the other,.. MONEY rules.. what can I say??
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 06:12:42 PM
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Boxing Fan:
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A true fan would watch a fight no matter what the circimstances are guys.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 06:18:26 PM
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Salt lover:
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Catchweights or not, Pacquiao will never beat Floyd Mayweather Jr (39-0). Floyd skills are too much for the lil' lunging-forward-with-the-same-old-1-2-combinations Filipino. Floyd's gonna do with Marquez what Pacquiao could never do, even sending him 4 times to the ground: Floyd's gonna beat him CONVINCINGLY. This time it wont' be ROB Arum stealing Marquez the decision, it'll be Floyd beating him flat. ............MIKAZTRO, damn man. You got really inspired. Write a physics book next time.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 06:26:29 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Brownsugar :
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You said it...and, like it or not, it's a fact. This is after all Prize-Fighting. Everything else is BS. Catchweights have always existed....and in a world of media saturation and high stakes, they are here to stay. History won't remember details. Nor will it put asterisks next to today's fights. The money is too big. The players, HBO and Showtime, are the media outlets themselves. Their stake in their investments may create what today is a conflict of interest....but what's new? Only the ability to know the details. In a shimmering world of nostalgia....the golden years...no one but the principals knew with certainty the contract details. Today, the mere rumor of a fact is viral before we finish typing. Manny wants this. Freddie wants that. Cotto wants...what Cotto wants. And so on. Pre-fight negotiations and the emotions they generate are, and have always been, part of the game. But once you sign, your name is your word. It's time to fight. If you're mad (at the negotiated details), you'll get your chance to get even. In the ring.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 07:06:49 PM
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miguel:
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to Djan- you're very very very right a king solomon wisdom.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 07:19:26 PM
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ali @ Mister Lee:
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Be quite! im cool with everybody on this site for the most part just because I don't agree with someone's post don't make a bad guy. Listen I never said anybody was a racist read my last post I made to #1Pacfan and quit kissing Radam B ass. I've wrote things on TSS and was'nt talking to you and you've commented on it matter of fact your doing it right now but I don't have a problem with it. You seem to not have a problem with the things he's saying about me, he's been ripping me a new ass hole with some of his words. But those things bother me one bit. One more thing quit acting like you know somebody just because you talk to them on TSS web site cause you don't trust that. ONE!
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 07:30:13 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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Oh believe me Salt, if Pacquiao and Mayweather were to meet at a catchweight I truly believe he will put May to sleep on the canvass like Hatton. Pacquiao is best at 135-140 lbs range, and did you say the same old 1-2 combination? Obviously you haven't been watching his three previous bouts. He has that vicious right hook(Manila Ice) even strong left hook( fists of death) straight left (old school punch) uses the jab more, lateral movement, footwork, and very improved defense. Your boy May don't stand a chance with Pac at a catchweight.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 08:42:26 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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Yo Don, I hope Cotto keeps his stance with wanting it at 145 or else just dump the fight. Fight Mosley in the rematch or Clottey. If he agrees to fight Pac at the propose 143 he will get destroyed, I'm a fan of Cotto and I wouldn't want to see that. Heck, I felt bad for Hatton and I wasn't even a fan of his.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 08:48:08 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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I wouldn't sleep on Marquez Saltlover, he is as tough as nails. The question is, does Mayweather have enough pop in his punches to hurt Marquez? If so easy night for May, if not I'm thinking Marquez by decision.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 09:07:31 PM
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BOXINGKLINIK:
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FOR ALL YOU GUYS CRYING ABOUT CATCHWEIGHTS.. MAKE THIS A TRUE WELTERWEIGHT FIGHT. NOT SOME LIGHTWEIGHT VS MIDDLE WEIGHT(COTTO). MAKE THE FIGHT AT 147. BUT MAKE THE WEIGH-INS THE SAME DAY OF THE FIGHT. COTTO WOULD GET DESTROYED IF THEY BOTH FOUGHT AT TRUE WELTER WEIGHT(147) FIGHT NIGHT.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 09:37:35 PM
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Misterlee the caveman @ ali:
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Just standing up for the Radam. Respect is something you gotta give to receive it. I don't head hunt nobody. You can make claims of semantics and your perspectives of how our connections run, but I ain't gonna engage in it, b/c it has NOTHING to do with boxing. Radam G's posts are like the real Ali's, all tongue in cheek and for promotion but he ain't mean anything by it. If you are personally hurt by them (having trouble walking?, means ya gotta check your confidence and give yourself a reality check: am i really getting emotionally hurt by a stranger on cyberspace? Especially a rhyming, jivin' funny guy like Radam, then "if ya wanna make dis world a betta place take a look at urself and make a change!" Grillin' crow! There's gonna be some Ward crow served on nov 7th, nice hot and rotten, and then some Pac crow: nice, tarnished, ran over, and chewed up by a pacman. Yes come and get it!
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 10:05:08 PM
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Salt lover:
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"he will put May to sleep on the canvass like Hatton" LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As if Floyd's just gonna come to Pacquiao like the one-dimensional Ricky Hatton did. I don't care about Pacquiao's "Manila Ice", and "fists of death" , FACT of the matter is Counter-Punching is Pacquiao's poison in the ring, just like Marquez already showed twice, and Floyd's a master-counter puncher, faster than Marquez, and better defensively. And Pacquiao's footwork? Yeah, frontal LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The only direction he knows to move. Anyways, don't worry, IF Pacquiao beats Cotto (And I dare to say that's a damn big if), and when Floyd destroys a fighter Pacquiao could never dominated (not to mention ROB Arum helped give the decision) we'll see Floyd vs the fontal-foot-working Pacquiao, at any of those catchweights Team Pacquiao feels safe to fight.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 10:42:14 PM
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Salt lover:
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And about Marquez tough as nails, yeah, I know that. He already outboxed Pacquiao, landed more powerpunches, total punches, and got robbed in the rematch. Floyd will show Pacquiao how to dominate Marquez, som' he never did.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 10:44:10 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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In the words of Big D...what's crackin MMLee?! I wish I had a crystal ball so I would know for sure who the Pacman is fighting next. The anticipation is never ending, luckily we have some action packed bouts coming up like the Super Middleweight Tourney. As a fan of boxing I will dig for chump change for Numero Uno...what's up with that? Neither of those guys are even the current P4P #1. So what are they fighting for? Maybe for #1 biggest mouth...JK...that's not my style. Like the Don would end it...Holla Back!
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 10:54:50 PM
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pac-q:
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bro, height is not an issue here, its the weight, manny being a smaller guy even at jr. welterweight 140 and cotto who is a natural 147. It is natural to meet weight in the middle. And its part of the game to have catchweight to even the fight match, that is why welterweight is from 141 up to 147. This rules are written before you bone head start crying. I say its fair, if you dont see it the way we do, then keep crying. ang nakakahiya ay ikaw.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 11:00:04 PM
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pac-q:
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Again you will only be weight-drain stupid if you are not a natural welterweight 141-147. On weigth issue, I say 143.5 is even. What Team PAC is asking is to even the match. If cotto likes to fight Manny then meet him half-way, There is no violation of Boxing Rules here, I just think Cotto is AFRAID and LAZY to shed more pounds. 3 months is alot of time to train and adjust. LISA ka lang hindi pa COTTO.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 11:31:32 PM
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pac-q:
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Again you will only be weight-drain stupid if you are not a natural welterweight 141-147. On weigth issue, I say 143.5 is even. What Team PAC is asking is to even the match. If cotto likes to fight Manny then meet him half-way, There is no violation of Boxing Rules here, I just think Cotto is AFRAID and LAZY to shed more pounds. 3 months is alot of time to train and adjust. LISA ka lang hindi pa COTTO.
Tuesday Jul 14, 2009 11:37:23 PM
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pac-q:
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Again you will only be weight-drain stupid if you are not a natural welterweight 141-147. On weigth issue, I say 143.5 is even. What Team PAC is asking is to even the match. If cotto likes to fight Manny then meet him half-way, There is no violation of Boxing Rules here, I just think Cotto is AFRAID and LAZY to shed more pounds. 3 months is alot of time to train and adjust. LISA ka lang hindi pa COTTO.
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009 01:34:20 AM
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ali @ Mister Lee:
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Radam G is very disrespectful and just because your rhyming trying to be funny don't give you a pass to say anything you want. I've seen him attack another great writer a well respected writer on TSS and he no longer writes on this site any more. Somebody needs to check him when he goes to far with some of his comments but it a free world so I guess that's his right. By the way Ali is my birth name my dad was apart of the black panthers movement so its not somthen im just using. I won't waste any more time on it im going to get back to talking about boxing cause that's what this site is about MisterLee that's one point you made did agree with One!
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009 01:52:18 AM
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pac-q:
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Again you will only be weight-drain stupid if you are not a natural welterweight 141-147. On weigth issue, I say 143.5 is even. What Team PAC is asking is to even the match. If cotto likes to fight Manny then meet him half-way, There is no violation of Boxing Rules here, I just think Cotto is AFRAID and LAZY to shed more pounds. 3 months is alot of time to train and adjust. LISA ka lang hindi pa COTTO.
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009 02:57:07 AM
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MisterLee @ Ali:
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Hey man, no need to disrespect about the name. I truly respect the Black Panther's movement, and Malcom X and every other militant and non-militant civil rights activist of the 60's. Respect to that and them brave souls. With Radam G, I dunno. guess i'm biased! But i do know he usually doesn't bite unless he is bitten, and he bites hard! We had a sparring session once, in a borges marcheato article, but it ended on a funny note, b/c he just poeticized that "darn genie" richardson and made some really funny witty comments. That was when i started to really like his writing. I think if pple practiced a little tolerance, and gave Radam a free pass here and there sometimes, there would be less commotion, b/c just like you don't bring a knife to a gun fight, you don't bring a gun to a Radam fight. There's no way of winning the war of words, but you can win a good boxing discussion. Also, i once heard just like kids check under their bed for the boogey man, Floyd Mayweather checks under his bed for the Pacman. Anyway, I respect how you feel, but I also gotta respect Radam. He's my favorite writer on TSS, second to Borges!
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009 05:39:32 PM
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EPJuanM:
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Great Article F-Lo. You hit all your points right on the head. He who has the economic power, and right now it is Pacman, can make and massage the rules to his advantage.....Having said that, sometimes it can back-fire. ODLH thought he was taking on the easiest foe when he decided to fight Manny instead of Margarito, or Cotto, or even Mosely again. Although he was in the drivers seat he made a poorly thought out decision when he agreed to fight at a weight that he hadn't fought at for almost 10 years....He did this thinking that Manny would have a hard er time with the added weight than him losing the weight...Well, we all saw what happened. He was so sure he was going to win that he publicly stated that anything other than a KO of Manny would be a disappointment!! And he was the one in a position to make up the rules! What a fool! He would have had a better chance against any of the other guys I mentioned earlier because he would not have had to give up any weight. But because he was in a position of power, he decided the safest and most profitable fight was taking on a smaller man. Lastly, I would have respected him more had he lost against Cotto, or Margarito slugfest. His legacy was lost when he lost to Manny.....All because he could manipulate the rules.
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009 05:48:16 PM
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Radam G, a humble PacManite - Sotomayor is da GIRL! She'll apply da law:
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Wow! Da darn censors got me. And I was being a very nice jive turkey. Oh, well! It is all good. But small brains on b*got like reader ali should not spit disguided, reversed bigotry to me. Suckas like him do it on the slick. And oh GOSH, TSS powers that be see it and expect for me not to leech smack it. I love the Asian jungles and swamps, but I cannot stand the leeches hopping on me and trying to suck my good, sweet blood. Wow! I never expected cyberspace bloodsuckas from da deep dark of a mudhole. Holla!
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009 07:18:57 PM
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Radam G, a humble PacManite:
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The radical thugs of a night-colored feline-named movement has messed up the minds of a lot of hyped-up believers of separatism and____, lmfao! Holla!
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009 07:50:59 PM
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james:
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Team Pacquiao is always looking for advantages.Barrera in the 2nd fight, all 3 Morales fights, Larios, Marquez in the second fight and DLH were all badly washed up when they fought Pac.Now they want to dehydrate fighters for an advantage.DLH was old and dehydrated and remember DLH weighed 145lbs during FIGHT NIGHT, they probably had a verbal agreement with team Pac that DLH would weigh 142lbs at weigh in.Despite all these advantages Pac still lost to a washed up Morales and twice to Marquez, a past prime, 34yr old Marquez in 2008 if you ask me.I'm starting to lose respect for Pac, seems he only has one good win without an asteric next to it, his KO of Barrera in 2003.
Wednesday Jul 15, 2009 10:57:14 PM
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Smoke:
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This article sure caused major debate, discourse, and heated discussions. You knocked this one out F-Lo. What happens if Pac-meister wins the WW belt. Will his handlers be able to decide what the WW limit? Perhaps the governing bodies should come up with a catch-wt belt, since we have such few belts out there, hee-hee.
Thursday Jul 16, 2009 02:51:37 AM
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pac-q:
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For me, i dont believe pacquiao should fight cotto, because of his size, age advantage being a natural welterweight and pacquiao jr. welterweight however, because of prizefighting and boxing-style, this promises an exciting fight if they will fight only at even-catchweight. To all catchweight-hater, stop crying you will be dehydrated on fight night!
Friday Jul 17, 2009 07:36:17 AM
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MisterLee:
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I feel the Black Panthers were a righteous group, oftentimes serving food to the community and helping out the poor. However, I'm sure they may have been more militant and in-your-face more than pple would have liked, but if your back is agst the wall in society, some pple feel like taking matters in their own hands. Besides, from what I heard, the panthers an their notoriety have been exaggerated by the media, just like Ali's extremism in his "nation of islam" association or Malcom X. Prolly wasn't as half bad as we or the media made it out to be. Holla!
Friday Jul 17, 2009 10:10:45 AM
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@ali from Twinkle D:
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Quit being a nitwit! You couldn't carry the Radam G-Man's jackstrap. That guy is too much for a smallweight like you. You just have to love him and stop the petty jealousy.
Friday Jul 17, 2009 11:04:27 AM
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Jokester:
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There will always be a Pacquiao hater just like there will always be Floyd hater. No point in arguing your point here if you're a Manny fan since there will always be some lame idiot to contradict it.
Tuesday Jul 21, 2009 06:09:04 PM
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Fast Eddie Lands In Germany, Says He'll Land The Shots To Upset Wlad
"An upset is possible in this as I could see Chambers boxing his way to a UD or SD, but I expect the much more likely scenario of a TKO in favor of Wlad in the middle to late rounds, in fact, I'd probably go with TKO in the 8th." --TSS reader Isaiah give Chambers a chance to get the upset win (photo by Jan Sanders)
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