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| Who thinks Hopkins should hang 'em up now? Who thinks he should continue boxing as long as he wants to, to 50-plus if he so desires? Weigh in! |
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Bernard Hopkins: He's Made Boxing Work For Him
By Frank Lotierzo
I recently read some quotes former middleweight/light heavyweight champ Bernard Hopkins made to my TSS colleague Bernard Fernandez. For those unaware of the respect I have for Bernard Hopkins the man and fighter, I suggest you read what I wrote about him for thesweetscience.com back in 2005. I've written about Hopkins from angles that have been seldom covered by the boxing press. It's remarkable the way Hopkins has conducted his life inside the ring and how he's one of the few fighters who made the game/system work for him instead of the opposite. Sadly, many great fighters have left boxing in shambles physically and financially, something that will not happen to Bernard Hopkins. He's too smart!
Hopkins said he has been attending piano recitals for his daughter, Latrece, and has arranged a $6,000 birthday bash for her - she turns 10 on June 28 - at the American Girl doll store in Manhattan. "I missed all these things before," he told Fernandez.
It must be some feeling walking around being Bernard Hopkins with a clear head knowing all that you've accomplished. That's the way it's supposed to end for great fighters. There's not enough space here to cover all the aspects that make Bernard Hopkins so unique in full detail, so I'll try to be short.
He messed up as a teenager and ended up in prison and made the time serve him instead of him serving the time. When he was released from prison he turned pro. Without the luxury of a high profile amateur career as a springboard Hopkins worked his way up themiddleweight ranks. Knowing he didn't have a TV network or corporate money behind him Hopkins understood the importance of making sure he controlled the only thing he had total control over, what happened in the ring. Therefore Bernard never let himself get out of shape and could be called upon to fight on short notice, lessening the chance of him getting knocked off and resulting in him ultimately having to turn his career business-wise over to a promoter or network. He fully understood that once he lost they'd more than likely have no use for him after that.
The thing most often missed when fans and writers look at Hopkins the fighter is, just how high his boxing acumen is pertaining to the business side of boxing and how it's run. Hopkins learned this himself after making a few mistakes early in his career via his dealings with different promoters and managers.
Another hurdle Hopkins had to clear was the fact that he fought a style that couldn't be perceived as eye candy for the average boxing fans, thus making him less appealing to the television networks known forbroadcasting boxing. A lot of boxing fans, not all, but a lot don't appreciate Hopkins' style and all the subtle things he did in the ring. It's easy to identify what makes flashier fighters like a Roy Jones unique or big punchers like ThomasHearns and Julian Jackson with their single shot knockouts. Whereas Hopkins was a mechanic in the ring and great at taking away his opponent's best weapon and forcing them to fight from their weakness most of the time. Hopkins could attack if the opponent wanted box or he couldcounterpunch and take the bullets out of an opponents gun who was trying to induce a street fight and go to war with him.
When it comes to mental and physical toughness Hopkins is on par with any fighter in history. On top of that he was great at getting inside his opponent's head and breaking them down mentally during the fight. I remember him saying before he signed to fight Oscar De LaHoya that he had no doubt that Oscar would agree to fight him. Bernard sensed that Oscar was looking for a fight to boost his legacy, and beating him would cover and excuse De LaHoya's losses to Trinidad and Mosley.
Think about where Hopkins came from and picture him at his daughter's birthday party pondering his career body of work. The guy held and defended themiddleweight title more than any other middleweight champ in history. And please, don't even think about retorting that he did it versus welterweights moving up to challenge him. Boxing history is replete with all-time great middleweight champs defending their title against welterweights moving up. Didn't Marvin Hagler lose his title to a former undisputed welterweight champ?
After a ten year reign as middleweight champ Hopkins lost two controversial decisions at age 40 to his former advisor's fighter, Jermain Taylor. Here it is four years later and Hopkins has been stopped two times less in his career than Taylor has been since their last fight. Since losing to Taylor, Hopkins took apart the fighter who basically ended Roy Jones' title tenure in AntonioTarver, in the process winning the light heavyweight title; this is a claim that neither all-time greats Carlos Monzon or Marvin Hagler attempted to do. That's not a shot at Monzon or Hagler, I realize Bob Foster and Michael Spinks were greater fighters than Antonio Tarver, it's just they never ventured outside of their division and Hopkins did.
As of this writing Bernard Hopkins is five months out from his 45th birthday, and he's probably the best light heavyweight in the world. The last two times he's fought he lost a decision to undefeated JoeCalzaghe who retired undefeated. I thought Hopkins controlled the fight with Calzaghe more than Calzaghe did. Bernard had Joe down and made him look much less than the terrific fighter he was. In his next fight he totally undressed linealmiddleweight champion Kelly Pavlik, fighting at a catch-weight of 170 pounds.
Now in the twilight of career and his legacy secure, Hopkins is only interested in big money fights or ones that will dramatically add to his stellar legacy. Basically, Hopkins is playing with house money in that at age 44/45 suffering a one-sided defeat can't hurt his image or historicalsignificance, and a win over a Tomasz Adamek or David Haye would not only add to his wealth, but add to his status as an all-time great by leaps and bounds.
Right now Bernard Hopkins can call the shots in the direction his career takes, something he's been doing for awhile. Basically, he's promoting himself and not paying a manager. How many fighters are on that list in boxing history? He's in a unique position and it didn't happen by chance, it was thought out and planned. The only thing that wasn't planned is the fact that Hopkins whether or not he fights again or retires, is already the most successful older fighter in boxing history. And it goes without say that if he fights again, it'll be a fight in which he deems it the right fight. In other words he'll get paid some additional millions, won't get physically hurt, and if he loses he certainly won't get his butt kicked or take a beating, something that has never happened to him in his career.
It's highly unlikely that when Hopkins is in his mid to late fifties that we'll see him afflicted with the ill health so many other great fighters suffered during their later years. Hopkins closed hisconversation with Bernard Fernandez saying, "I'm at peace. I would love to stick around for another fight or two, but if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen."
Make no mistake about it, Bernard Hopkins made boxing work for him instead of him being forever indebted to it. That's the way it's supposed to end but usually does not. All time great fighters should strive to leave boxing with their health, wealth and respect. In the case of Bernard Hopkins, he'll even have thewherewithal to enjoy and spend his money.
Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com
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GOAT:
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I'm from Philly and a B-Hop fan! What he did to Pavlik was a classic schooling, but, the writer has double standards in regards to boxing. Anyone who knows me know that I'm a PBF fan, and the writer always criticizes PBF for fighting smaller guys (name two) but gives B-hop credit for beating Oscar (smaller) Tito (smaller) Pavlik (smaller) and Wright (smaller). The only thing I want to see is consistency in criticism and praise. All that being said, B-hop is the man. P.S. B-hop vs. Hagler, who yall got?
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 09:46:14 AM
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Did McNair's girl pull the trigger?:
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Hopkins was a great fighter, but how can you even suggest he controlled the fight with Calzaghe. Calzaghe threw more punches, landed more punches, and did so at a higher connect percentage. And forget saying that Hopkins landed harder shots; Bernard was looking for a way out in the last 3 rounds and barely made it to the finish line (pretending to be hit low and taking a garbage rest). And he has feasted on smaller guys. Pavlik at 170 is NOT Pavlik at 160. KP should have never taken that fight at anything but middleweight. Hopkins should go after Adamek. That's the only fight that makes sense for him. Taylor beat him twice, both legitimate. The biggest win of his career was his stoppage of Glen Johnson in 1997. However, Johnson would KO him if they fought now, which they won't.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 10:03:51 AM
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dr3r42:
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The differnce between Hopkins and Maywhether is that Hopkins fought against every contender at his weight class and above. Roy Jones wasn't smaller than Hopkins when they fought, neither was Glen Johnson, Jermain Taylor wasn't smaller, niether were Calzaghe or Tarver. Yes, Hopkins had some gimick matches against Wright and Pavlik, but Jeeze, the guy's 45 years old. Del A Hoya and Trinadad were legitimate contenders to his title and were big money fights with fan interest - plus who did Hopkins duck at middleweight in order to fight these guys ? He had already cleaned out the divison- unlike Maywhether, who opted to fight Hatton and Baldimir over Mosely, Margarito, Cotto, and Williams. Not that I have a problem with Floyd taking easy money by fighting Hatton, but at least fight "some" of your top contenders at the weight you are champion at. As far as BHOP-Hagler, that's a boring fight with two guys who would rather have the other guy lead
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 11:03:32 AM
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GOAT:
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I respectfully disagree with you. Calzaghe moved up tp Lt. Heavy to fight B-hop. When PBF moved to welter, Zab was the Ring Magazine champ. Zab beat Cory Spinks who Beat Mayorga who Beat Forrest who Beat Mosely so Zab was considered the best at welter at that time. When Zab lost to Baldomir, he didn't loose all his titles because Baldomir didn't pay the sanctioning fees for one of the belts. So after PBF beat Zab he fought the man who beat the man in Baldomir. After he beat Zab, everyone was saying he was scarred to fight the "real" champ in Baldomir, so PBF beat him easily. At this time, Cotto was fighting at 140 and Bob Arum turned down a fight with PBF because he said Cotto wasn't ready. Mosely was fighting at 154 during this time, in fact Mosely has more fights at 154 (7) than PBF has at 147 (4) so Mosely is fighting smaller fighters at 147 but I digress. Margarito was comming of a lost to Santos and he and PW were not known fighters. In fact, anyone besides the people who know him personally, who says they heard of PW back then is probably lying. After Baldo, PBF fought the cash cow (Oscar) and the second cash cow (Hatton) and retired. P.S. Mosely had plenty of opportunities to fight PBF but he declined for various reasons in the past.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 11:21:45 AM
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GOAT:
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Greatness is sometimes boring! Have you ever seen a truly great pitcher in baseball, he cannot be hit. Have you ever seen a truly great quarterback, his passes are extremely accurate, have you ever seen a great running back, he makes people missing him look effortless. So it is with PBF, He cannot be hit clean, he is the most accurate boxer in the history of the sport and he makes people missing him look easy. Cleaning out a division is overrated! Would you rather see PACMAN clean out the 140 lb division or fight Cotto, PBF, Mosely etc? PBF clearly dominated everyone besides Castillio in their first fight and Oscar. I never seen PBF get hit clean more than once or twice in a fight! And I never seen PBF miss widely with numerous punches. Once he is gone, our children will look back at him the way we look back at SRR, SRL, Aaron P etc.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 11:29:02 AM
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Radam G aka Humble PRG at the Staples Center mourning MJ:
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Wow super fightwriter Frank Lo! Your piece was so nice that I had to read it twice. B-Hop was sipping from the fountain of youth or somethin' when he was robbed by Slappy Joe, the most overrated hurt biz pretender in recent times. His partner Money May will storm and stomp the greatest canvas kisser and sore loser JMM in September. They'd better bring in buckets of quackjob Vitali K's son's pee-pee in order to heal the wounds. And there will be NO beating of Manny "PacMan" aka "AGOAT" -- Asia Greatest of all time -- Pacquiao. And B-Hop sipping on the fountain of youth instead of a 40 -- 40-ounce bottle of beer. What's next! R.I.P. Michael Jackson and Steve McNair...the world's gone mad! Holla!
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 11:46:42 AM
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dr3r42:
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First off, I never said anything about Maywhether being boring, so I don't know where you got that one. I said that style-wise Hagler and Hopkins would probably be a boring fight, because both would prefer that the other lead. Yes, PBF is a great fight fighter, but unlike Hopkins he doesn't always fight the best people available. Second point: Hopkins was a blown up middleweight who went up to challenge Tarver, up until then he had fought his entire career at a lower weight than Clazaghe, so I have no doubt that Calzaghe's walking around weight was higher (or around the same) as Hopkins. Thirdly, when Floyd fought Judah, he had been already beaten by Baldimir, who everyone knew was limited. If you want to play "Zab beat the man who beat the man, who beat Mosely" - I could argue that Kosta KO'ed Zab in the second round- and Hatton beat Kosta and on and on- styles make fights anyways- so comparative scores often have no value. Margarito lost to Santos in 2004, and the fight was at Jr Middleweight. In 2006 Margarito was considered by most the top welterweight in the divison, and next to DLH he was probably Floyd's biggest payday. Maywhether was offered 8.5 million by Arum and turned it down. Floyd also tried to lowball Winky Wright in 2006 by offering some ridiculous split for a catchweight fight, that Wright shockingly agreed to- Floyd withdrew his offer. In 2007,after Oscar; Mosely, Cotto, Williams were all available to fight Maywhether and all wanted him. He opted to take the easy way out by fighting Hatton- who barely beat Collozo at Welter (the same Collozo who Shane shut out). So he avoided the top challengers in 2006 (and took less money in order to keep his undefeated record in tap) and in 2007- he took the easy way out by fighting Hatton- instead of his best challengers (Hatton's following's overrated- he's only big in England- Mosely and definatly Cotto would have been bigger money fights in 2007 than Hatton). Again, who did Hopkins ever duck as a Middleweight ?
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 12:00:00 PM
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GOAT:
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Point 1 was for B-hop and Hagler. B-hop is a all time great fighter but most consider him boring. Point 2 is a double standard. Yes B-hop fought the majority of his fights at 160 and Calzaghe fought most od his fights at 168 but that doesn't mean Calzaghe was the bigger man, follow me, Hatton fought his first fight at 146 and PBF fought his first fight at 130 which is a 16 lb difference but everyone says Hatton was the smaller man? Hatton has never fought below 140 and the majority of PBF's fights were below 140 so who is/was the bigger fighter? PBF said himself that Baldo was limited and he did not want to fight him but he got so much flack for "ducking" him he fought him. I'm not saying Zab was better than anyone I mentioned, I wanted to prove the point that he was considered the welter champ at that time so PBF fought the legitimate champ. PBF vs Marg would look like PBF vs Baldo. When PBF turned down the suppossed 8.5 mil ( Try to find a copy of the contract, I did) offer to fight Marg, he was attempting to fight Oscar and that fight was worth at least twice that much at the time so that was more of a business move. B-hop turned down rematches with Roy on plenty occasions, not because he was scarred, but because of financial reasons. So to does PBF and all othe top fighters (PACAMAN, Calzaghe, Darchiniyan, etc) turn down fights because the money isn't right. B-hop fought mostly B and C level fighters at 160. Name one hall of fame calliber fighter the B-hop fought at 160? You will have to name smaller fighters (Oscar, etc). PBF beat Genaro Hernandez and Diego Corrales, who will be hall of famers, Jesus Chavez and Castillio, who were A level fighters, Angel Manfreddy and Demarcus Crely who were B level at his weight class. That's not including the fights over 140.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 12:30:17 PM
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Mike Tyson IS BACK! Fighting Nenad Stankovic later this year:
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I think a prime Hagler beats a prime Hopkins by UD.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 12:52:11 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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Hagler would destroy B-Hop and that would probably be my boldest prediction up to date. Hagler's style who is very aggressive is best fit for B-Hop's. Hagler will walk him down with ease and remember that Hagler also possess that rough tactic style like Hopkins.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 01:19:41 PM
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Theboyb901:
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Its weird that no matter what modern day boxer is compared to an old school boxer, people automatically assume the fighter from the past would win easily. Let them go, they have come, accomplished, and retired. B-Hop is a legend, period, boring or whatever.... he's a boxing legenPr
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 02:19:55 PM
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ali @ Goat:
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Damn every thing you said is true and even though you are a B-Hop fan you kept it real about him fighting smaller guy. Also You mad a good point about which fighter is bigger if you started your career at a highter weight and another passes you up in weight does that make you bigger no. That was so real good writing I got to give props were props is due.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 02:51:33 PM
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dr3r42:
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First off, Zab Judah was not considered the welterweight champion when he fought Maywhether- he just lost to Baldimir !! That was the big stink then that the only reason he had a belt was because Baldimir didn't pay a sanctioning fee (Maywhether-Kenny argument). Zab had been stopped in two rounds by Kostya Tszyu and had lost to Spinks (which he avenged) and then beaten by Baldimir. Baldimir wasn't considered that good either, nor did he have a big following- he had about 9 losses and the only fighter that he had faced was Clotty, who was way ahead of Baldimir when he got DQ'ed. And yes, Margarito was being built up by HBO for a mega fight with Maywhether in 06, they even showed his one round KO over some stiff- and he had continued to call out Maywhether. Here's the thing- you use the excuse that Maywhether fought Judah and Baldimir because they had belts in 06, but you justify his dodging of Cotto/Mosely/ Williams to fight Hatton in 2007. Could you imagine Sugar Ray Leonard refusing to fight Thomas Hearns or any other top welterweight contender in order to fight Saul Mamby ? Second point: As far as what great fighters did BHOP beat at 160- unlike Maywhether he fought the best people available. That's all you can ask (it's like saying what prime HOF'ers did Larry Holmes beat). Although I'd add that Glenn Johnson was/is a hell of a fighter (ask Chad Dawson) and BHOP is the only person to stop him. Also, unlike Maywhether who wouldn't fight the best welterweights BHOP did fight Roy Jones. Hey, you want to argue that Hopkins cherry picks, fine, but the guy is 44 years old and already has a legacy of taking on all comers- and unlike Floyd is not concered with staying unbeaten. Last point- why don't you E-mail Frank Lotierzo, he's the one who wrote the article. Frank's E-mail address is at the bottem of the column. But if you try and argue that Judah, Baldimir, and Hatton were the three best Welterweight challenges for Floyd in 2006-2007, I doubt if he'd take you seriously. Nor would he if you gave him the "Zab beat Spinks, who beat Mayorga, who beat Forrest, who beat Moesly" arguement. Using that logic, I could probably argue that Vic Darchinyan could beat the Klitchko's
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 03:50:43 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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@GOAT, you're really going to give credit to May for beating a bum like Judah. Who got KTFO by Kostya Tszyu in the second round and was the man Floyd's been ducking while fighting bums at 140. Look at Floyd's record, he has fought all of those guys after being defeated in their previous fights. For example, Mitchell was defeated by Tszyu before May faced him; Corley was defeated by Judah in a hard fought decision just before May faced him; Judah was defeated by Baldomir just before May faced him; and Bruseless was a bum too. My point is Floyd fought those guys right after they have been badly beaten. NOBODY HAS EVER STATED THIS BUT "FLOYD DUCKED KOSTYA TSZYU" BECAUSE HIS UNCLE DIDN'T WANT HIS NEPHEW TO SUFFER THE SAME ASS BEATING HE GOT FROM TSZYU!!!
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 04:09:45 PM
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#1 Pacfan \:
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dr3r42 beat me to it!!!
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 04:11:13 PM
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ali @ #1Pacfan:
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Are you crazy Mayweather ducking Tszyu yeah right! every time Mayweather does'nt fight somebody you say he ducked them its a two-way street. Please believe alot of the top fighters back then did'nt want no parts of Mayweather maybe now cause of the lay off and that's why you here Mosley talking about it now. Tszyu never even thought about but you heard Mayweather talking about fighting them. #1 Pacfan after ya boy gets his ass whooped by Mayweather I know you really going to hate on the pretty boy.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 04:40:46 PM
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mike m:
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B-Hop is one of my favorites. I particularly was impressed by his discipline as he is never out of fighting shape. I disagree with one point and that is the Calzaghe fight. Hopkins lost that fight (it was close). Calzaghe made the adjustments and really controlled the fight after a bad start. I had never seen B-Hop that frustrated and actually thought he wanted out in the 9th or 10th round with his complaints to Cortez. He was reduced to one punch and then holding. I think that fight made even his own people think it was time to hang em up. Against Pavlik he was completely different and his energy level was completely different. Great win over Trinidad. B-Hop is not always fun to watch like a Hagler, but he is a top PFP fighter in any era.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 05:44:07 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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Man, did this thread deteriorate fast. From F-Lo on B-Hop, a man no one cn take credit from, to PBF, the man who everyone takes credit from. If I'm the matchmaker, I want to put dr3r42 up against GOAT. Now there are two fighters who respect each other but know their business. As for legacy, that is something in the eye of the beholder. And rightly or wrongly, Floyd has simply flat out not satisfied his beholders. Not yesterday, not today...and will not tomorrow....unless he fights the fights WE want to see. You can argue his virtues all you want (I do often) but about what other All Time Great do we speak of the fights NOT HAD instead of the fights they did have. B-Hop controlled his life in and out of the ring....and thus his fate. Floyd still has time. But he hasn't closed the deal. It's his decision.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 06:57:02 PM
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Real Talk @ Pacfan:
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Mayweather called out Kostya Tszyu , Mosley, Oscar, Cotto , and the list goes on . I saw it myself , some live and some on youtube . All you naysayers go to youtube and type in (mayweather addresses cotto) see it 4 yourself . A lot of guys done had the wool pulled over their eyes . This is one of the greatest , most skilled , sharpest dudes to ever lace'em up . This aint rabid fandom , this is real talk , straight from the hip . If I had an oppurtunity to pick between Mosley, Cotto,P. Will, or Hatton I'm taking Hatton . Duuuuhhhhh !!!! I mean let's be serious for a second , or maybe it's like don puto 69 said "it's fantasy boxing" . I'm taking the money fight (Hatton) first , and the second best money fight (Cotto) second . You think I'm working my @$$ off to be broke at the end of my career . You think I'm gonna chose 5 million over 20 ??? Spare me the smoke yous trying to blow up my exit . It's easy to say this dude beat this dude first so this and that . The Floyd vs. Zab fight was in the works for over a year , Zab dropped the ball but they pushed it through anyway . It was still a good fight !!! Floyd beat Zab before Cotto . Floyd beat Corrales before Casamayor . Hatton should've been popping his gums , and Shane Mosley is going to get his fight with Floyd . I don't know what pugilist you guys are watching or maybe you should gimme some of that you smoking . CUT THE JOKES !!! LOL DUECES
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 07:10:41 PM
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MisterLee:
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Zab Judah is a bum, to give any credit for beating judah, whether cotto beat him, clottey beat him, tszyu beat him, ... dont gimme the cory spinks beat mayorga who beat forrest who beat mosley.. judah is a bum for sho! mosley beat mayorga, and mosley beat margarito (who was far more threatening than judah in any time of his career), mosley beat vargas, prime de la hoya. honestly, who has judah beaten? junior witter? Judah is a bum boxer, floyd has a bum resume. anyway back to bhop is great, but i want to see him in the ring before 2015 "fo sho" as smiley c says. Dr3r42 walks him down and by round 3 executes a perfect liver shot, and Sheep rolls around the floor as if he's trying to put out a fire or like a DMX song (dats' how ruff ryders roll). @ ali , once mayweather fights pacquiao cotto or mosley, i'll give him props for signing the paper. "you heard it first ladies, holla back!" haha.... Tss rules!
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 07:13:30 PM
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Real Talk FIGHTING A BUG:
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I knew I was getting tired to fast when I was hitting the pads yesterday . I TAKE HOPKINS OVER HAGLER Hopkins has the total package(except one shot KO power) good defense , ring generalship , better movement , good whiskers , tip top shape , ALL TIME GREAT CIBER RING INTELLIGENCE , great inside fight game , good measuring of space and distance , good outside fight game , toughness, and can win pretty or UGLY !!!! How can you bet against that ??? Peace and Blessings
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 07:22:42 PM
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Real Talk FIGHTING A BUG:
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I knew I was getting tired to fast when I was hitting the pads yesterday . I TAKE HOPKINS OVER HAGLER Hopkins has the total package(except one shot KO power) good defense , ring generalship , better movement , good whiskers , tip top shape , ALL TIME GREAT CALIBER RING INTELLIGENCE , great inside fight game , good measuring of space and distance , good outside fight game , toughness, and can win pretty or UGLY !!!! How can you bet against that ??? Peace and Blessings
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 07:23:39 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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@Ali, first of all don't even think your boy Floyd is goint to challenge Pac because he will duck Manny like he did everyone else. I gurrantee you he will retire after his fight with Marquez. @RealTalk, you rely your sources on youtube and web? Don't believe everything you read especially on the web. True that he may be a skillful fighter to ever lace them up but against whom. Trust me he did not call out Tszyu or Cotto otherwise that fight would have happened. Don't get too hype with May's return because he will head back to the closet.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 07:30:21 PM
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#1 Pacfan \:
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Serious, who has Judah beat! @RealTalk, I have sources you wouldn't believe...Roger had no intensions of making a fight with Tszyu because Roger knew Kostya's style possed a threat to May's.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 07:41:35 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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In any period of history, very few great figures stand out. Time ultimately settles heated battles and determines those who leave their mark. It is as true of artists, musicians, ballplayers, politicians.... as it is boxers. They can't all be memorable and they can't always be thought of as great. Think about it. As good a president as you may think Clinton was, he will (and he knows it) not be considered an all time great. Great at the time is not Great all the time. Or over time for that matter. I am now convinced that this moment and maybe this era will be remembered in boxing above all by one man, Manny Pacquiao. He is just now finalizing contracts with Miguel Cotto....and there is already talk of him wanting to fight Floyd ...if PBF beats JMM. That courage, that fierce determination to beat the best of all the rest.....that only belongs to one fighter. And that ain't Floyd.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 07:45:46 PM
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brownsugar:
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the is the second coming of Floyd,.. a truly great, and gifted boxer,.. he's coming out in the late summer of career for what ever reasons,.. I've never seen another fighter like him,.. not even Roy Jones,.. because Jones used incredible physical attributes to overcome a sloppy foundation,.. but Floyd had it all,..speed, grace.. defense,.. pure magic,. he's gone from being the most praised fighter in boxing to being the most maligned,.. discredited,.. and abused name in the sport,.. But I'm glad he's back,.. and I plan to enjoy what ever he does,.. for how ever long,....one fight at a time.....
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 07:59:05 PM
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brownsugar:
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correction:.....in the late summer of his career for whatever reasons..
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 08:01:49 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in7":
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Great post Fe'roz and not because you favor Pacquiao but due to your articulate gifts as a writer. @RealTalk, you choose Hopkins over Hagler is respectful but I think many would disagree with you. I would bet my bank account on Hagler, he would walk through Hopkins like the plow in the fields. Hopkins would need the skills May possess to have a chance heck I would even give Floyd a better shot at beating Hagler The Marvelous.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 08:05:45 PM
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Real Talk:
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Floyd called out Kostya Tszyu after one of his fights while being interveiwed by Larry Merchant . I saw it with my own 2 . He also called out Oscar, Shane ,and Cotto . I remember Floyd called out Shane mid -fight when Shane was commentating on the fight . He looked at him , pointed to him , and nodded his head like yeah I want you . Floyd gives Pac a boxing lesson , straight up and down . If he couldn't step on Marquez what makes you think he will step on Floyd . Pacman's got serious problems with Cotto coming soon , and that's my boy . Dueces
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 08:10:19 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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Great points MMLee!
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 08:13:16 PM
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Real Talk @ Feroz comment:
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A smile spread across my face , like the curtains rolling back on the grandest broadway stage . It's Showtime !!!! I'm grinning from ear to ear . The peices are place , the plan is in motion ! Let's hope the stars align for us to see one of the greatest battles of all times . Respect
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 08:22:16 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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May called out Tszyu? When? Where? He said that after the fight, against who? Pacman is going to gobble up Floyd off the canvass. Pac is a much improved fighter since that Marquez fight you know that. Pacquiao's the man, he is going to face Cotto before he is. May never called out Cotto, Cotto called him out. You have your facts twisted.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 08:26:36 PM
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MisterLee:
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Manny knocks out cotto inside of 7, maybe 5. He better start training with lyoto machida, he needs to work on his ground game and his sprawl. Cotto gonna low blow manny once he's hurt fo' sho! manny gonna corner this guy, and punish him to the head and body. After all, manny has the power of margarito, unmatched speed,and great timing. Cottos' left hook is his only weapon, just give him the ole' right hook dip like the hatton fight (same move! same move! ) hahaa.. pc out
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 08:33:04 PM
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Real Talk @ Pacfan:
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B-Hop has got all the tools in the box , and the tricks in the book . He's been called a boxing almanac . I have tremendous respect for Hagler who is truly one of the greatest . Hagler was a beast , but Hopkins is so hard to hit clean and if you do yous either eating 3 or he just shakes it off . I've been watching B-Hop before I or many other people knew who he was !! The dude was in wars that he surgical striked and dissected his adversaries to the point where it was like two different levels of civilization . The fight between B-Hop and a young Glenn Johnson could be easily compared to Hagler and the Beast Mugabe . What about his clashes with another KO artist Antwan Echols??? Whew !!!! I saw that fight live an it was a firefight , B-Hop just put out the fire . I used to catch those fights when I went to my uncles house . To me B-Hop just has more skills and is the complete fighter . That would only leave Hagler with the KO option and I've never seen Hopkins hurt...........ever . Even when Echols hit him flush while the ref was breaking them up . Holla at your boy !!!!!
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 08:38:44 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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Thanks #1 Pacfan for kind words. Real Talk, my doubts about Manny fighting Miguel are every bit equal to my respect for the Little Man. Both are Huge. But the fight IS being made.....and Manny and Floyd look to be next. Whatever happens, one thing is clear. Manny is fighting up in weight...and GOAT's comments about double standards enter and carry great weight for me. There are undeniable and understandable loyalties.....and prejudices.......impacting the perceptions of Cotto and Floyd, yet both are doing the same thing; taking on smaller fighters. Cotto fans seem not to recognize the hypocrisy...and Floyd's fans, from everything I have read and heard, haven't yet pointed it out. And it is happening as we speak! I suspect Cotto is being given a pass because he is battle worn. I know I feel that way. Floyd I'm afraid just hasn't fought the hard fights (in the eyes of most fans) to be given the same. Fair or not, it's a fact.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 08:41:29 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Real Talk:
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Always great to hear from someone who saw the fight WHEN IT WAS HAPPENING. It's a huge difference. Youtube and hindsight are 20/20 but there is no substitute for the real thing. I watched all if not most of both fighters during their time and i have to agree with your last observation. B-Hop has fought his way out of Graterford Prison (where the rats are welterweights) and has never been hurt in the ring. Hagler and Hopkins would have warred....but win or lose, B-Hop was not falling victim to the Marvelous One
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 08:47:45 PM
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Real Talk @ Pacfan:
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OMG !!!! Are you serious ..........lololol ??? Floyd called out Cotto everybody knows this , whether they chose to admit it or not . Cotto on the other hand NEVER.....called out Floyd . Now don't get me wrong , Cotto is a warrior who will fight anybody from what I've witnessed to date . Now about Manny being a much improved fighter since Marquez , how do we know ? Who was agood measuring stick of his improvement as a fighter ? Try not to get in your fealings on this one . I'm just using rational . Who's the barometer ? Is it David Diaz ? Or is it Deadman De La Hoya ? Or Ricky "Banzaii Face First "Fatton . You tell me . Everybody questions Floyd's resume , let's be fair and impartial . Who has Manny faced with anywhere NEAR the skillset of Marquez that would make it undeniably crystal clear that he's MUCH improved ? Hmmmmm ? That's my boy though , love his work . Holla back p.s. When has Cotto EVER....... called out Floyd ? You tell me , all I haer him say is " I let the company decide who I fight next . Get your facts straight playboy . It's like Malcolm said " aaaah ya been had , bamboozled ,lead a stray , run amuck " It's all good though , you still cool with me ; } Do some research an Holla back . Naaaa Mean
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 09:02:18 PM
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Real Talk @ Feroz comment:
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I was a little too yuong for most of Haglers career . I by chance or luck got to sit down and watch some of the early Hopkins fights . They were calling him old back then , the whole establishment frowned on him but quietly respected his game , craft , and professionalism . They should make a movie about Hopkins one day . I'll tell my kids about him when I'm old . Dueces
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 09:15:34 PM
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ali @ #1Pacfan:
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I think B-hop wins because of his defense that's the only thing that I can say he does better than Hagler ever thing else is about the same. Cotto has beat guys that Mayweather has beat before him but I don't here you saying anything about that it happens all the time in boxing. Mayweather beat Corley, & Zab before Cotto, Mayweather beat Hatton before Pac beat him.Barrera lost to Morales before Pac beat Barrera Morales lost to Berrara before Pac beat Morales. Diaz was a bum Pac fought so many bums it don't make sense yeah he fought some good fighters too but alot of bums are on his record why you never bring up that.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 09:22:53 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Real Talk :
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Manny doesn't have to prove he has improved. He improved every fight against the warrior Erik Morales, effectively revenging a loss in Fight One and ultimately ending Morales reign as a top elite in their third battle. He warred and beat a great Barrera. Then he knocked down JMM four times in two fights, relying only on his straight left . In 2004! he was assuredly a devasting puncher but he was effectively a one handed fighter back them. Later he destroyed Diaz with both hands, Oscar the same. And the "new tecnique", the right hook, was unveiled and destroyed Hatton. With new and devastating weapons added to his arsenal after all his previous battles... i think you might have to acknowledge growth and improvement. When Cotto catches the first right hands, watch closely. It's either over....or just starting. Cotto is strong and tough as they come....but he does appear to be slowing while Manny seems to be getting faster.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 09:39:32 PM
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Fe'Roz @ ali:
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Defending Floyd by tearing down Manny is a losing arguement. Manny fought every tough Mexican in their prime, losing once to Morales who was still dangerous by any measure. I don't think I want my defense of any fighter to be that he beat Zab or Corley. Neither was great....and both are and were damaged goods before meeting Floyd. pc
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 09:44:14 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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@RealTalk, I believe it was after the fight with Zab when Larry ask him why he isn't making a lot of noise calling out Mayweather. He stated that he already made it public his desire to want to fight Floyd; it's just I don't go too extreme of calling a guy out because it doesn't work. @Ali, I said that Floyd fought those guys right after being defeated in their previous bouts. Manny fought his opponents after they were making a run in their career.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 09:49:41 PM
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ali @ #1Pacfan:
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Yeah your right Morales was in his prime when he fought him the third time Barrera was in his prime when he fought him a the second time & Diaz was a beast when he fought him. Hatton fought a smart fight by going in head first Oscar was not drain when he Pac beat him down he looked like the same theprime Oscar #1Pacfan do you believe anything I just said.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 10:00:45 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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Come on Real, we all know that Manny has improved. He uses that right hand with regularity and his foot work is what amazes me the most. He can slip and slide, zip in and out throwing punches; and bob and weave to avoid punches. I think if JMM and MP was to face off at the moment it would be easy night for Pac.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 10:02:59 PM
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Fe'Roz @ ali:
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Ali, you know I agree with you often and feel that Floyd is held to a double and often different standard. But he brings that on himself. Cotto nor Manny ever mak the claim tht Floyd makes incessantly.....that his is the greatest. Since he has and continues to do so, the burden of proof is on him. As to your comments about Barrera and Morales, watch the first JMM fight in '04. The reason Manny was a sensation back then is that he destroyed top Mexican warriors. Impugning them , as i said above, is a losing premise to a losing argument.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 10:07:46 PM
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#1 Pacfan \:
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@Ali, don't let your emotions take control...You can't blame Manny for Morales, Barrera, Diaz, Dela Hoya, and Hatton not coming to fight prepared. BTW, MP destroyed Barrera in 03 and if you.can't handle the heat stay out of the kitchen.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 10:09:03 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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And it's equally possible that JMM was and always will be NP's styistic nemesis ala B-Hop and JT, Mosely and Forest, Oscar and Shane, Jones and Tarver. That doesn't make him any less great. it makes him human.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 10:10:55 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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After a week of listening to eulogies to Michael Jackson I'm left with the over-used and oft repeated Beatles line "In the end, the love you take/ Is equal to the love you make." In the end, all fighter will be judged by that simple standard. The fights they take.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 10:16:38 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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@Fe'Roz, I think most people are trying to diminish or belittle his accomplishments due to the fact that he is getting much more praise and accolades than Floyd ever received from the public. What do you think?
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 10:22:54 PM
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Real Talk @ Feroz comment:
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The right hook to the body is called Manilla ice if I'm not mistaken . That punch was mentioned in either the 2nd or 3rd Morrales fight . I'm sure it was the 2nd now because it wasn't much of a 3rd fight . That punch was nuetralized in the 2nd Marquez fight right or wrong ? Now I'm not saying Pacquiao hasn't improved since he fought Morrales and Barrera , I'm addressing how do we know how much he's improved since Marquez 2 . Pacman is one of my faves so I'll never trash him , I'm just saying the guys on his resume since Marquez 2 can leave room for .........questions of how much he's improved . I'm just giving back a little of what I see everybody doing to Floyd , which is putting him under a microscope and trying to blow the slightest thing up into something major . You can nitpick and faultfind something about any fighter . Floyd is elite , Manny is too . Floyd has been top shelf skillset as far back as I can remember . Manny is becoming more complete . Manny has won more fights on will and athleticism than skill . You said so yourself . I'm saying what I think about ,and that's how do we know how much Manny has improved since MARQUEZ 2 when he hasn't fought that caliber of fighter since ? That's a question only time will tell .
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 10:22:58 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Real Talk:
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I can live with that.pc
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 10:30:04 PM
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the Roast:
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Fe'Roz, dont know where you been but I'm glad you are back. Top of the food chain, as Iron Mike used to say. If we are talking about Hagler vs Hopkins I pick Hagler. This man was a pure fighter. Hopkins could try all his little moves and tricks but if Hagler was on he would beat him. The Hagler that went to war with Hearns and Mugabi was the best middleweight I have ever seen. Hopkins is a damn good boxer but he's not a warrior. Hagler by bloody KO in the 14th.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 10:58:47 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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Manila Ice is correct and it was the 2nd Morales fight that MP developed that punch. Manila Ice was not effective in the 2nd Marquez fight due to JMM's style. That punch best fits a style who is aggressive, good writings fellas til next time; payce out.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 11:04:16 PM
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ali @ Fe'ROZ:
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I meant to address my last post to you not #1pacfan. Im not trying to trash Pac he's a beast a A class fighter but some of the things people say about Mayweather I see alot of other fighter doings the same thing and Pac is one of them. There was no need to fight Morales a third time and you know that Morales was coming off a lost to a C level fighter. Pac fought the easiest fight at 135 in Diaz nobody had a problem with that. Mayweather went to 135 and fought the best guy in Castillo Mayweather fought Zab after he came off a lost the same thing Pac did I don't believe he should have but Zab is a much tougher fight than Diaz.
Wednesday Jul 8, 2009 12:08:17 AM
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GOAT:
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Ali, good point hommey. I just get tired of the double standards in boxing. If someone doesn't like PBF's style, abilities or attitude, I have no problem with that, but when people says he is ducking this person or scarred of that person or that he cherrypicks fights, this is what ALL FIGHTERS DO. Pros at PBF's level are not scarred of fighting anyone, it's about the money! The man calls himself money and you wonder why he turns down fights because of financial reasons? If and when PBF beats PACMAN, Mosely, Cotto, PW and anyone else, there will be some excuse (Oh, he didn't knock Mosely out, or PW was weight drained trying to make 147, or PACMAN was too small, or Cotto was past his prime) BUT if PACMAN beats Cotto, Mosely, etc he will get praise! PACMAN got praise for knocking out someone PBF knocked out and knocking out someone PBF beat at a higher more natural weight. This is like saying the Orlando magic should get credit for beating the Nuggets in basketball while criticizing the Lakers for not beating them by enough points.
Wednesday Jul 8, 2009 06:42:23 AM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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Let's rewind back to when Pac was aiming at Lightweight division, everyone put Juan Diaz as the biggest threat in the division. JMM koed him in the late rounds, Manny would have disposed him earlier let me explain. Now I know styles make fights but J.Diaz is also a face first type of fighter like Hatton. We know how Manny excels when faced with a fighter who is aggressive. Now you might bring up that he throws punches and bunches and Manny might be overwhelm; MP sports the stiffer chin than Marquez.and is heavier handed too. Now who else in the Lightweight division that could have been a threat to MP? Casamayor, Katsidis, or Julio Diaz? Take your pick.
Wednesday Jul 8, 2009 02:57:56 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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@GOAT, trust me I will be the first to give credit to FMJ when it's due. He defeats one of those guys, he will be on my ATG list. Simple as that.
Wednesday Jul 8, 2009 03:02:03 PM
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MisterLee:
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Froch is eyeing andre dirrell, the #2 mandatory in the WBC, he's ducking Andre Ward for sure! direll is fast but limited and full of flaws. Unless beating finley shows world championship qualities. Ward schooled miranda, froch gonna beat dirrell in late round stoppage, maybe rounds 8-10 or something. Unlike direll, ward doens't have any flaws and he always getting better. Froch will run from ward, maybe ward will pursue karoly or bute and eventually kessler. Froch, take a real fight man! nobody's ever heard of direll outside of the hardcore fans. At least ward has a hometown following and beat a great contender at 168, the mayorga of the middleweights. pc out! tss rules!
Wednesday Jul 8, 2009 05:21:33 PM
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Fe'Roz:
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I was thinking about you all this afternoon and then remembered my reaction to Floys knocking out Ricky Hatton in December of '07. Not only did he make him look the inferior fighter he was but he so far outclassed Hatton that everyone (from here to Manchester) had to acknowledge that either Hatton was a frace betrayed.....or, more accurately, that Floyd was in a class of his own. At that moment, love him or hate him, any true/knowledgable boxing fan had to give him his props. So hold that note. The man is back. Let's see what he does in Brownsugar's words, the late summer of his career.
Wednesday Jul 8, 2009 06:18:34 PM
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Real Talk:
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Good points Pacfan and BrownSugar . @ Feroz thank you finally ....for giving the boy May his due . Like I said Pacman is great , Floyd is great .......he 's got some cleaning up to do and some checks to pick up . Unfinished business , I hope we get at least five more fights out of him . All quality ...history stamping fights that leaves no doubt what he's about . These other welters who we want to see him fight , let take up a donation to help promote these dudes so the public will buy in (sarcasm) . I'm feeling the icehouse ....I'm out . Dueces
Thursday Jul 9, 2009 01:10:53 AM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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I'm with you on that RealTalk, I don't know if you have any re-collection of my past comments that I've always made it clear that I used to be a big fan of Floyd in his lightweight days. I've been washed ashore as a fan but that doesn't mean I can't swim back in, he just has to prove it once again. @MMLee, that's all part to being great, and they don't want to test the waters. Unfortunately, that division isn't as deep as it used.
Thursday Jul 9, 2009 09:57:41 AM
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MisterLee @ #1 pacfan:
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All good, ya gotta admit, super middle to ligth heavy is taking some of the thunder that the middle weight or jr middleweight divisions once had. Pretty cool stuff to me! Back in Roy Jones' day,there weren't too many super middles nor light heavy's that had a name, or am i wrong since I wasn't really following closely back then. Maybe that was partly the tragey of RJJ's earlier part or prime of his carer. Pc out! tss rules!!! :)
Thursday Jul 9, 2009 06:13:40 PM
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#1 Pacfan "KO's Cotto in 7":
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@MMLee, well it's like a chain, at one point you had RJJ, Hopkins, Toney, and Glenn Johnson stabled at the middleweight divison. That time it was stacked full of talent but as they moved up the attention went elsewhere. Similar to when Manny was fighting at 130 and there were many great matchups and big names. But like today it seems as though that division never existed now that MP is at the higher weight class. How does Ward-Pavlik sound by end of the year? I think that's a great fight right there.
Thursday Jul 9, 2009 09:25:52 PM
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MisterLee:
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Hey hey! #1 boxing sage fan! sup! You're right, attention follows the stars, jermaine went up, dirrell, dawson was up there already, miranda moved up, bhop moved up... pretty crazy. Ward pavlik sounds good, but it will never happen, pavlik is not looking for a high risk low reward fight, ward dosn'et have a strap yet, hes stil young and not very famous, he has great boxing skills and one of the few that can learn from Bhop's game plan. However, if he can take pavlik's best shot, he will take pavlik in deep. I think pavlik lost some of his killer instinct, and he, like jermaine taylor, ortiz, and cotto, NEED A NEW COACH. Actually i don't see pavlik taking on any stiff competitoin for another year, i do'nt htink he's pscyhologically gotten over bhop's arse whoopin... they tried cherry picki'n, but i feel pavlik is just not into the game, like wright was not into the game since 2007 and his loss bhop. froch better stop running! Pretty soon, dirrell ward, ward taylor, ward dawson, ward johnson, bhop dawson will take over the scene, and froch will be left with nothing. Or maybe ward abraham if theres' a strap and good distribution and big fights on the line. Yeah felix sturm will never leave germany, .... what you think of sakio bika? He looks pretty rough, he kotfo manfredo. pc out!
Friday Jul 10, 2009 01:09:09 AM
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dr3r42:
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test
Friday Jul 10, 2009 09:17:29 AM
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MisterLee Ooooooooooooo.....:
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The tournament, which will consist of nine preliminary bouts followed by the semifinals and final, begins Oct. 10 and is supposed to finish in May or June of 2011.
Win or lose, the six fighters will each fight at least three times with the top four advancing to the semifinals based on their point totals. Fighters get two points for a win, an additional point if it's by knockout and one point for a draw. There are all sorts of contingencies for situations such as a no contest or a tie in points. Contractually, mandatory bouts cannot interfere with a tournament fight.
The tournament is scheduled to begin with a split-site doubleheader on Oct. 10. In England, Froch will face Dirrell and in Germany, Abraham will face Taylor.
On Nov. 7, probably in Oakland, Kessler will defend against Ward. Other matches include Abraham against Dirrell in January in the U.S.; Froch against Kessler in March in Europe; Ward against Taylor in spring 2010 in the U.S.; Ward facing his Olympic teammate in summer 2010 in the U.S.; Froch against Abraham in summer 2010 in Europe; and Kessler against Taylor in the U.S. in fall 2010.
Friday Jul 10, 2009 11:18:54 AM
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MisterLee :
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ESPN...
Friday Jul 10, 2009 11:19:23 AM
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ECM-PR:
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Hagler vs Hopkins... Hagler easily. Hagler fought much better opposition than Hopkins, who in reality beat a bunch of bums. Hopkins would've had a hard time against Mugabi, Roldan, Obelmejias and he would've lost to Hearns. Hopkins greatest wins came against inflated welterweights (DLH and Trinidad), and against an undedicated movie-star wannabe Tarver. His fight at a "catchup" weight against Winky was a joke. Winky game him a good fight and would've beat him at middleweight. With all due respect, I think Hopkins is one of the smartest fighters in the history, but not necessarily in the same skill level as Hagler.
Friday Jul 10, 2009 04:35:36 PM
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2009 Reader Of The Year Weighs In On Legacies Of Pacquiao And Mayweather
"Pacquiao has proven....in the ring... time and time again that he is the greatest of this time. He has earned his respect. He begs for nothing. He is a man content with his growth, his family and his achievements. A man the world has now turned it's eyes to behold. Floyd Mayweather is not even close in stature. He may possess the greatest skills but he is not the Face of Boxing today. Google Manny Pacquiao. There are 20 million searches. Google Floyd. There are 6.5 million. Look at the NYTimes, the Wall Street Journal and Time. Count how many words were used these past years to mention Floyd Mayweather. Then count the words still being printed about Manny. And keep counting. As I've said many times, Floyd has been too clever by half. He has short changed his public.....and has out-smarted himself. Manny will fight but a few more times. Enjoy it while you can. He is an all time great pugilist. Floyd, with all of his remarkable skills lack the will to be truly great in the biggest sense of the word. His legacy will look more like Holmes that Ali. He has earned it." ---November is half-way gone, but we don't need to keep counting ballots. It's a landslide. Fe'Roz has won the 2009 Reader of the Year award. His comments add to the website immeasurably, and he epitomizes the thoughtful, respectful, educated fan of pugilism we strive to cater to at TSS. Congrats, Fe'Roz, and please accept my thanks for being the valued member of this community that you are. Sincerely, Editor Mike
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