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| Arum in the middle between two men he promotes. A lesser promoter might wonder why he should put two of his guys in a fight together, and insure one a blemish. Not Arum. He'll maximize his revenue now, and then figure out later how to deal. |
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Pacquiao vs. Cotto: Arum Wins, Arum Wins
By Frank Lotierzo
It's not even first grade logic and is even more rudimentary than boxing promotion 101. The fact is Shane Mosley exposed the truth last week when he said, "He (Arum) gets all the money in a fight between Manny Pacquiao and Miguel Cotto." And Mosley couldn't be more right. Why would Arum want to risk making a fight with Mosley who is promoted by Golden Boy Promotions and get a lesser portion of the money while at the same time risk his star fighter being defeated?
Says Mosley: "He gets a little bit of Cotto's money, he can make money on Pacquiao's end and he can make money on the whole promotional end....Bob Arum, at this point, it's all about money for him."
Although Mosley's words ring true, they don't constitute Bob Arum being a bad guy, it only suggest he's a businessman looking out for his best interest, not boxing's. Nothing new there. In a Pacquiao-Cotto clash Arum is doing the same thing Don King mastered during the 1980's with the heavyweight contenders who challenged WBC champ Larry Holmes. That is put on a fight where he comes out on top regardless of who wins because he had both fighters tied up contractually. This scenario shouldn't be the case legally in boxing but often is at the championship level.
Arum knows that he has potential future Pacquiao opponents Shane Mosley and Floyd Mayweather over a barrel. Anyone denying or trying to refute that doesn't live in reality. He controls the fighter who is the lottery fight for his opponents. The longer a fight with Mosley or Mayweather takes to make, the more Shane's skills erode and Floyd's body starts shows signs of breaking down.
With only one fight left on Arum's deal with Miguel Cotto, the promoter wants to squeeze as much out of him from a financial vantage point as he possibly can. That's the business side of boxing pure and simple. Arum has witnessed Miguel absorb some taxing physical punishment over the last 11 months in two of his last three fights. I'm sure he surmises Cotto is on the decline and there may not be many more big fights for him down the road. So why not insert him as a participant in a major fight and make as much money as possible for both?
Luckily for Cotto he's in a pretty good position with Arum at this time for the following reason. It's his last fight contractually under him. Therefore Arum has to take care of Cotto. Because if he dismisses Cotto and assumes that Pacquiao will beat him in November and Cotto doesn't, he'll lose his hold on one of the fighters who will be half of an upcoming superfight. Can you imagine the ulcer Arum would develop seeing Cotto interviewed at center ring after beating Pacquiao saying that he wants Mayweather, and Arum not having the rights to Cotto?
Bob Arum is too smart to take a chance like that. He may feel confident inside that Manny can handle Miguel, but he's cognizant to the fact that it's definitely not a given. That's why he'll have to take care of Cotto if/before he fights Pacquiao. He'll try and make the fight with Pacquiao so Cotto gets taken care of financially, and since he can't risk Cotto winning it, he'll sign him to another multi fight contract. So he can't lose.
Boxing has become so much more of a business lately that it makes the days of when it was controlled by the mob look like the good old days. It's not about what's the best fight or who really are the best fighters. And that makes it just like the other major sports -- that being it's all about money. For instance, how bad did ABC and the NBA want to see the finals be contested between the Los Angeles Lakers and the Cleveland Cavaliers? Think of the wasted tape comparing a potential Kobe Bryant versus LeBron James showdown to the the Magic Johnson versus Larry Bird clashes in 1984, 1985 and 1987 that was never aired due to the Magic eliminating the Cavaliers. Like boxing, a Lakers-Cavaliers NBA final would've been about how much money the netwoork and league could have made.
The same thing applies to professional boxing at the championship level, the difference being that the television networks and promoters in boxing have much more pull and control than the league and networks do the NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB. The NBA and ABC couldn't just match the Lakers and Cavaliers. Sure, via the officials they could have some influence as we saw the Cavaliers get the benefit of almost every call against the Orlando Magic, however they couldn't do anything about the Magic being better and winning the series. Had that been boxing the Cavaliers might not have played the Magic.
If boxing were about doing the right thing and seeking to find out who is the best fighter in one of the biggest fights that could be made, then Manny Pacquiao would challenge WBA welterweight champ Shane Mosley without Mosley having to weigh an ounce under 147. No doubt Pacquiao vs. Mayweather is the biggest money fight, but Mayweather hasn't fought in 17 months, doesn't hold any title and still wants a majority of the money. As for Cotto, his win over Mosley was close and a draw would've been a fair call. He was taken apart by Margarito and lost the title. Mosley took Margarito apart and the addition of Naazim Richardson looks to have given him that few percent that a top trainer can bring to a world championship caliber fighter. On top of that Mosley is the top welterweight in boxing. Pacquiao beating Mosley who weighs 147 would be huge historically. Even if Manny lost a close fight his stature as a great fighter would go up.
Pacquiao and Mosley have shown they fear no fighter and always seek the biggest challenge. Is there a morsel of a doubt that Mosley would fight Paul Williams above welterweight if he could make the same money fighting him as he would Pacquiao? Of course not. Just like Pacquiao wouldn't have a qualm about fighting Mosley at 147.
If Mosley and Pacquiao called the shots, they'd be facing each other for the WBA welterweight title in November. However, Freddie Roach knows the money involved and he wants to get his fighter every advantage he can. That's why he's insistent upon them meeting at a catch-weight of 143, something I'd be doing too if I were him. It's his job to get his fighter every advantage he can because there's so much money in it for them if they win. Just as I wouldn't, they don't care what writers and fans think or say. They could care less if it's written that Pacquiao's victory over Mosley is hollow if Shane has to weigh in at 143. All they know is they're fighting Cotto or Mayweather in six months for even more money than they got for fighting Mosley.
That said we're talking about boxing and it's hard not to believe that Arum and Roach aren't really playing Mayweather, putting pressure on him to deal or face Manny fighting Cotto. So unless Floyd Mayweather has an epiphany and settles for a smaller percentage of the money, Arum will do everything under the sun and the moon to make Pacquiao vs. Cotto because it's always about business first.
Arum wins, Arum wins!
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elcapitan0012@tmail.com:
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Yeah Mosley did expose the truth 2 Arum's logic..... The problem is, he sounds like a complete idot when he says that he deserves a shot at Pacquiao more than Cotto does. If im not mistaken Cotto beat Mosley before, so for him 2 say that is stupid. Besides he's begging for the fight. Come on Shane, where's youe pride at?
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 01:57:34 PM
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kim:
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what the heck was the POINT of your article?!
you wasted a whine.
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 02:14:50 PM
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Anonymous user:
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who ever you are you do not know what the hell your saying ,your putting cotto out to be a chump and mosley the best, shore cottos last fight wasnt the greates do to a cut to his face,let me tell every body some thing Clottey is not a chump, for those who nose boxing know that clottey is in excellent shape and he knew this was his only fight to get over the hump so he train for that,he has excellent defend and a very good counter puncher.Now cotto in the other hand had to worry about a cut 70% of the fight so he could not throwe his left hook to the body like he normally will ,he had to cover the cut so they wouldnt stop the fight cause the cut was to big,the cut had alot to do with his performance for those who realy knows boxing,Now what mosley going to say next if cotto beats pacquio ,and cotto wants to fight mayweather,oh am his best fight next cause we split a desicion the i think i won, every thing mosley is saying is @#$%&^%$he needs to stay out of it and go fight Paul Williams the man no body wants to realy face then if you beat him which i hardley dout it ,Then you can face the top dog.You right arum wants money but buy him signning cotto again and then cotto beats pacman, he then can control mayweather,mosley,margarito..........Pretty Smart on his part.........
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 02:15:57 PM
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roland:
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I agree in almost everything except for the pacquiao-mayweather being the best fight out there. it is not the best fight, but the boringest fight out there for pacquiao right now. marquez, cotto or mosley would be a great fight. forget about mayweather, he is good, but he is not worth PPV material.
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 02:21:57 PM
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Crusader:
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Frank, you must be a Mosley publicist. Of course, boxing is business. No, actually BIG business. Mosley is doing everything short of wiping Pacquaio's behind to win the Pacman Lottery.
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 02:30:25 PM
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cypher:
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get a new job bro - so biased. you robbed cotto of A LOT of credit.
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 02:44:04 PM
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Luis:
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Dear Mr. Lotierzo, It is ridiculous to think that a Pacqiao win over Mosley or even a close lost, would give him a grater status if you dont think the same when Cotto did it , he beat Mosley in almost every EXPERTS cards(and he is only a half inch taller than Pacqiao with shorter arms). Now of a sudden Mosely Is the top fighter at 147 because he beat Antonio Margarito who use to have rocks instead of fist and you totally desrespecting Cotto's win over Mosley. By the way , of course a Pacqiao vs Cotto fight is more lucrative than a Pacqiao vs Mosley, if you know your buisness you should know that that Mosley does not bring any money to the table and he does not move people.
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 03:45:05 PM
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hec:
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it WAS A WASTE OF TIME READING THIS YOU MUST NOT EVEN FOLLOW BOXING........COTTO BEAT MOSLEY IT WAS A CLOSE FIGHT BUT HE DID WIN COME ON GET REal HOP OFF MOSLEY NUTS
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 04:43:38 PM
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Antoine:
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REFRESH YOUR MEMORY DUDE. Did Cotto beat Mosley? Ahh yes. He did. There you go...
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 04:48:47 PM
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oscar:
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isnt it Mosley loss to Cotto? so who has the right position to fight Manny, Cotto or Mosley? so these people or even Mosley himself who are rooting for a Mosley vs Pacman fight, better shut up
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 05:18:54 PM
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rebeldick45:
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cotto woop mosleys azz ,thats why cotto gets the fight,whats so complicated about that.Think of a better argument next time.
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 05:25:03 PM
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eric brun:
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Pacquiao vs. Cotto/Mosley at 147!! Go for 7 Manny!!
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 05:35:24 PM
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banks:
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just let shane mosley face paul williams if shane has real balls... shane is calling manny because he knows that there a big chance he can beat manny....... but business wise he doesn't want to fight paul williams.
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 06:34:11 PM
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wentabs:
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why mosley always saying he wants pacman when they are in different promotions, the best mosley cud fight is mayweather since they are tie up in one promotion which is the golden boy...for mosley stop challenging the pacman instead try to negotiate to fight with mayweather
since your both in the same camp then the result of mayweather v. mosley will fight the result of pacman v. cotto early next year to see who's the greatest boxer....
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 06:42:27 PM
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adrein:
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If PBF have to decide on challenging Pacquiao at 50:50 purse split, now is the most appropriate time. Of course Bob Arum will do everything to push for Cotto vs Pacquiao fight because both are Top Rank fighters and the prestige of the winner of the bout will be retained at Top Rank promotion. For PBF, why risk a fight to a very skilled and equally dangerous fighter of JMM while he can fight the current pound for pound king and break all the PPV sales record. Between Pacquiao and JMM, the risk is equal but the reward in fighting Pacquiao is way above every available fights one could possibly think of in any weight division. There's a very big chance that Cotto will beat Pacquiao because of big size disparity and the chance for PBF of maximizing profit in fighting Pacquiao will also disappear. Now is the only chance to strike a deal with Pacquiao and it's now or never. Of course, Arum will surely lose Cotto if a fight between Pacquiao and PBF takes place this year.
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 07:38:50 PM
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stellar27:
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Arum said GBP still will get a cut from revenue even pacman will not fight a fighter from golden boy stable if this is true....I think mosley has no idea on settlements in court between top rank and golden boy promotions, arum is a good promoter for pacquiao and he knows the A to Z of this business Aru somehow don't want under the shades of GBP everytime there is a big event . a large TOP RANK Promotions banner you can see from your monitor screen he likes that....no GBP
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 07:48:48 PM
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Rolo:
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Cotto is an outstanding fighter, one of the best if not the best body puncher in the world and he is not being given the credit due to him cause of that loser Margarita and his cheating. he not once complained or cried about anything that has happened he is a true warrior and has earned this fight with manny not taking anything away from Mosely whom i like aswel and maywheather even thou he likes to talk alot of $*it he is still the pound for pound champ. the fights should go the way wentabs suggested.....
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 07:53:18 PM
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Ferdie:
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I say again, if Manny wins over Mosley, they would just say that Shane is old and that Pacquiao only wants old, beaten up fighters. Whereas, if Manny fights Cotto who is younger and who beat Mosely in their last fight, then It would be worth it.
I wonder what the skeptics have to say if Manny beats Miguel. What will be the alibis. Would we get the same Diaz alibi that David was the weakest link at 135. Can we say that Cotto is the weakest at 147?
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 08:42:14 PM
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P4P-Fan:
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Yes, please stop disrespecting Cotto as he is also a welterweight champion. I'm a Pacman fan and I look forward to watching him fight Cotto. With all due respect to Cotto, he's not trash talking but he keeps it real - he's a fighter and both he and Manny have two arms. I appreciate fighters who knows it's all about what happens in the ring. Yup, you guessed it, he more he opens his mouth, the more I dislike Mayweather. I do admit though that to shut him up, Pacquiao will have to face and beat him. I hope JMM trounces him in the ring. I'd rather see JMM vs. Pacman one more time.
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 08:54:36 PM
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carlomaniak:
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the only problem here if manny beat cotto, cotto will not be popular anymore, and manny will retire to run for office(sorry to say that he only has one fight left), so bob arum will left out with no more superstar in his promotional outfit,poor bob arum he cant build margarito as his next prize fighter coz his a cheater many boxing fans hate him now, no one can replace manny and cotto who is the real prize fighter in his stable.. maybe not now.. he'll have to wait for his ward valero and lopez to be on their prime to be the next superstar.. but after pacquiao cotto fight he left out with nothing..(but what if cotto beat pacquiao?)
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 09:03:48 PM
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Anonymous user:
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Wow you must either hate Cotto or get money from Golden Boy Promotions. I dont know if Paquiao vs Cotto is the best fight out there, but that is the fight we are going to pay to watch. If Mosley is so good we he doesnt fight Paul Williams, if he is so good how did Cotto outboxed him for 12 rounds and how can you compare the Margarito fight when Cotto probably fought with a fighter that had loaded gloves. If Mosley is the best welterweight then he should fight the best welterweights out there(Cotto, Williams, Maywheather). He already lost to Cotto so I guess he is not the best. Tell your boss at golden boy promotions to set up the fight with Williams , he shouldnt be scared he is the best right??
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 09:33:14 PM
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Uruk-Hai:
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To put it bluntly... this writer does not know boxing. And TSS site is doing itself harm by letting this bloke post pin-ups here. Cotto beat Mosley, Cotto has a bigger fan base, Cotto lately has fought better opposition than Mosley... All those intangibles add up yet this writer for all his wisdom does not realize this. You don't even need to post this comment Mr. Avila.. just let this writer read this for his education.
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 09:41:17 PM
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the Roast:
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Anytime Pacman is mentioned, here come the nutjobs.
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 09:44:47 PM
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Fe'Roz :
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Maybe I shouldn't be surprised when an intelligent argument like the one put forth by F-Lo is posited, it evokes more reaction to those unbendingly loyal fans.....aka nuthuggers.... of (name the fighter) jump all over it. The fact is Frank is right. Business will dictate Arum's choice's...and the Bobfather is holding all the cards. He should give Cotto the fight....to both appease him (he did shine on Margarito after he beat down Miguel) and to keep him on contract. He'd be a fool not to. Moreover, Cotto-Pacquiao is a great fight. Not because Cotto earned/deserves it more than Shane....but simply because it is a great match-up. Shane unfortunately will have to wait. He arguably more than anyone deserves the fight because he is thee recognized title holder....having beaten Margarito. Arum and Freddie are both betting and hedging that Manny can beat a declining Cotto....but in the event they are wrong....and that is very possible....who wouldn't watch these two fight again. 'Money May' May just have to wait...and give up some of what He says makes him great.....Money. Because Manny , Bob and Freddie have him by the thing we suspect he is missing most.........Balls.
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 09:55:37 PM
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MisterLee:
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Awesome article! Bob arum is truly robo-promoter, BUT, he is right, pacquiao has the last say on who he fights. Bob arum can't force pacquiao b/c pacquiao is the one signing the paper. In the end arum wins everything, but pacquiao wins with the fans also no matter who he fights: cotto or mosley. Pple need to stop getting on mosley's case. His resume to date is more impressive than cotto and mayweather's resume, he's been around longer, he's a legend, and his opponent choices have always been both logical and illogical (no one forced him to fight a prime forrest, prime winky, a prime collazo (who had just "lost" to ricky hatton), vargas, mayorga, a prime undefeated cotto, nor a prime margarito). Cotto = glory + money, Mosley = more glory + less money. Take the pick Pac! Mayweather = everything, but a pain in the A*#(* in the negotiations. Mayweather, take a backseat!
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 10:06:04 PM
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MisterLee:
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And by the way, Mosley beats Cotto on the polls!
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 10:06:53 PM
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MisterLee:
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Dear Nation of Mayweather, let me know when your country lifts the embargo on BALLS!!! Sorry Fe'roz, your last quote reminded me of a Colbert moment. See ya! :)
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 10:07:49 PM
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oskar:
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If Pacman get pass Cotto especially with a knock out and a fight with Mosely happens, Shane will cry that a fight with Manny should be at 147.
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 10:10:35 PM
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ali:
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at the end of the day it comes down to money if I was Arum I would do the same thing what I don't like is he won't admit it. Don't say shane don't bring enough to the table both fights will make a whole lot of money. Arum just say it you want that money!
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 10:24:50 PM
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Fe'Roz @ Mister Lee:
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Yo my brother, what am I now.........the John Stewart to your Colbert.....a mere warm up for the main event? That 'Balls' line was written with love......the tough kind....meant to get Floyd's bearers unraveled and get their beloved to challenge someone his own size. In any event, I appreciate your having my back. pc
Thursday Jun 25, 2009 10:36:19 PM
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chella:
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let's just same some guys have all the luck. and this time its arum. it'll still be a pacquiao-cotto match on november regardless who's the promoter. once you lose your out (as the next top contender). that's the name of the game. mosley already lost to cotto, cotto won his last fight with clottey then cotto is the next guy to beat. makes sense, right??
Friday Jun 26, 2009 01:51:22 AM
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Louie:
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Mosley is right in saying that it's all business for Arum. But isn't
it that's what they are doing also in GBP. You don't have the right
to complain if you're doing also what you're complaining about.
Mayweather is not promoted by GBP but why make a fast one in
making a fight between Mayweather and their Marquez and the funny thing is announcing it on the eve of Pacquiao-Hatton's fight which backfired on them with that kind of fight result. It's because of business/money. They want a piece of Pacquiao.
They want to be part of all big lucrative fights which Arum is now enjoying. They are so greedy that they are looking at their neighbors backyard and forgot to look after their fighters and to top it, they are not still happy with ttheir 20%-25% cut in every Pacquiao's fight.
What should Mosley/GBP do is fight instead Mayweather or Marquez (GBP) instead and the winner will fight the winner of Pacquiao-Cotto (TR).
I'd like to add also that I have a feeling that GBP is doing everything possible to stop Manny Pacquiao's march in surpassing Oscar dela Hoya's achievements in boxing.
Friday Jun 26, 2009 03:21:44 AM
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wtf:
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Forget catch weight, just have the weigh-in in the morning of the bout. Then you be fair to both fighters!
Friday Jun 26, 2009 03:32:13 AM
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performing:
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This Pacquiao-Cotto fight is really a win-win situation for Arum. Since Cotto beat Mosley, it's quite rudimentary even for boxing audience to see a Pacquiao-Cotto rather than a Pacquiao-Mosley fight. I would like a Pacquiao-Mayweather and/or Pacquiao-Marquez bouts more than anything else just to set the records straight and hail the greatest boxing of all time, Pacquiao.
Friday Jun 26, 2009 03:52:06 AM
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me:
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mosley cry baby
Friday Jun 26, 2009 04:20:46 AM
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jefrockz:
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arum wins!...so what?..are you or mosley and gbp envy?....arum is a businessman and he knows which fight will draw ppv...and thats what we would like to see...pacman vs cotto!
Friday Jun 26, 2009 09:09:39 AM
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derema:
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Frank, great analysis. This is boxing and you know your stuff. I don't see where you disrespected Miguel Cotto. Cotto is a top fighter. But your analysis makes sense. I do not understand the attitude of some of the responders. To the responders, read and learn a few things about the "Business" of boxing. Frank shows he knows what he is talking about.
Friday Jun 26, 2009 09:14:08 AM
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mikmar0208@yahoo.com:
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Who cares bout Mosley? He doesn't bring a whole country on his back like Cotto does therefore the money will be so much more with Cotto. And to the people who say Mosley knocked Margarito out and Cotto didn't, you forgot to add that he wasn't getting hit wit bricks in return that's why he was able to put combinations together and not hit and run! Cotto/Pacquiao is the best fight out there right now...period.
Friday Jun 26, 2009 10:05:17 AM
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norman:
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Cotto and Mosley will be the most dangerous fighters Pacquiao will face now or in the near future. They both have significant size advantage over Pacquiao, much significant than the size advantage Hatton had over Pacquiao.
For Pacquiao critics, they will have to think of excuses if ever Pacquiao beats Cotto. As somebody had earlier said, a Pacquiao win over Mosley will just drive the critics to say that Mosley was anyway too old against a younger Pacquiao.
And even if Pacquiao wins over Cotto, the critics will say that Cotto was already downhill since the beating he got from Margarito--similar to what has been said when Hatton lost to Pacquiao.
For Pacquiao, it doesn't matter who he fights between Cotto and Mosley. Both have the ability to beat him but we dont actually know until they fight.
The bottom line is that the promoter's job comes into play in this situation. Regardless of the respective merits of Cotto and Mosley, it is just unfortunate for Mosley and fortunate for Cotto. Cotto's promoter is doing the job while Mosley's promoter is apparently out of the equation.
Friday Jun 26, 2009 10:23:16 AM
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norman:
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Cotto and Mosley will be the most dangerous fighters Pacquiao will face now or in the near future. They both have significant size advantage over Pacquiao, much significant than the size advantage Hatton had over Pacquiao.
For Pacquiao critics, they will have to think of excuses if ever Pacquiao beats Cotto. As somebody had earlier said, a Pacquiao win over Mosley will just drive the critics to say that Mosley was anyway too old against a younger Pacquiao.
And even if Pacquiao wins over Cotto, the critics will say that Cotto was already downhill since the beating he got from Margarito--similar to what has been said when Hatton lost to Pacquiao.
For Pacquiao, it doesn't matter who he fights between Cotto and Mosley. Both have the ability to beat him but we dont actually know until they fight.
The bottom line is that the promoter's job comes into play in this situation. Regardless of the respective merits of Cotto and Mosley, it is just unfortunate for Mosley and fortunate for Cotto. Cotto's promoter is doing the job while Mosley's promoter is apparently out of the equation.
Friday Jun 26, 2009 10:24:12 AM
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DaveLB:
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Hey Freddy Roach, let your boy, Manny, fight Marquez. Quit going after the weakest link in heavier weight divisions. Marquez has proven he is P4P the best. Real boxing fans know what the deal is. Cotto should give Clottey a rematch and Mosley should fight Paul Williams. Mayweather needs to ride his broke ass off into the sunset before he disgraces boxing any further.
Friday Jun 26, 2009 11:20:07 AM
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Anony:
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MY HUMBLE OPINION IS THAT BOXING IS ABOUT DRAMA. Just think about it. Pacquiao and Cotto has their countries support and both fighters are young blood. Mosley doesn't have the country support (fans buying tickets) and he's been around forever. Call it a "ShaMe" but it is the truth. If this fight materializes (Cotto-Pacquiao), as soon as Arum announces tickets sale they will be gone because of this fan country-based support. If they were about to do the fight here in Puerto Rico or the Philippines, it could fill an entire stadium. That's how big of a fight it is. So.. the drama will sell the most tickets / PPV and some could talk BS about Arum but he happens to be the guy in charge doing exactly what most of us will do if we had the same chance. Make the most money. Bring on the fight. i can't wait for the outcome - it will be - "Pacman, wonder of multiple categories" or Cotto becoming "The biggest draw in boxing".
Friday Jun 26, 2009 11:35:48 AM
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MisterLee:
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@ Fe'roz, of course! you and the Roast killed it! I only read the regulars these days. just scroll down. @ the haters, cotto beat mosley, margarito SLAMMED cotto (no pun intended), Mosley murdered margarito and IS the number 1 welterweight in the world! Mosley has ALREADY cemented (sorry marg fans) his legacy, he don't need to fight no williams, the dude is a legend and a veteran and a decent ticket seller. He's been in Knockout Kings on PS1 before Manny was even recognized. Pc out! :) Tss rules! :)
Friday Jun 26, 2009 11:53:24 AM
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jayvee:
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So Mosley is not after the money? Why is he after Pacquiao, when there is Paul Williams, Floyd Mayweather jr. , and the guy that beat him, Miguel Cotto to challenge? I mean, don't get me wrong, a Mosley vs. Pacquiao will be a great great fight and probably if Mosley wins, ODLH can finally retire and will stop talking about fighters that can easily beat the PACMAN, when he himself couldn't do it and made MEXICANS really look bad by quitting on his stool!!!!....(for crying out loud!).....Oh by the way, Mosley is not looking for himself and his future on this one 'coz he's only 38!!!!!!......'cmon champ....the Punisher is waiting for you to call him out.......uh ....oh....what...????....Too big for you?
Friday Jun 26, 2009 11:59:03 AM
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Oddsmaker :
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Your view is eroneous Why did Mosley not fight Paul Williams
who wants to fight him or why did GBP not make a Mosely vs Mayweather fight . The problem is within Mosely Promoter their
not that smart
Friday Jun 26, 2009 12:06:31 PM
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Radam G, a humble PacManite coming down Mt. Apo, PI 2 add his 2 cents:
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Nice, realistic piece, Fightwriter F-Lo. It is spot on. It's all about money. Ain't a darn thing funny. You have to have it to live well in this world of milk and honey. Without it, a person couldn't even take a good $hit. With it, he could own the toilet -- every bit. Fanfaronades just don't get it. The hurt bitnezz is not about just gettin hit. It is about making that giant finance, or you can forget about da gravy romance. Only a money poor is without self-esteem and doesn't understand the cream of the cream. You go in that ring to shine, but with the one who gets you paid a mil or more plus a dime. Holla!
Friday Jun 26, 2009 01:42:19 PM
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Fan of the sport not of Boxers@ MisterLee:
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Both of you boys are dirty boxers! In his greatest(vs delahoya) win Mosley cheated like Margarito (steroid scandle which he claims he did not know. just like margarito, his legacy is stained . did you forget?) Mosley beat old Mayorga and Vargas but he did not stand a chance againt ethier in thier prime. the Mayorga that destroyed Forrest carreer with have done same thing to Mosley's and the Vargas that fought Trinidad, Delahoya and Wright would have done it as well. Mosley avoided them both at thier prime. Your boy Clottey is as dirty as it gets his fight with Baldomir he had a total 5 headbutts NC against Martinez for same reason in his fight with judah it was ruled a headbutt because of his trend and you expeced him to win using his the same technique against Cotto? The fact is that Cotto outboxed bothof them give him some credit(even mosley did). And Maywether may not win fight with balls but atleast he does not use steroids, headbutts or special gloves. SO QUIT HATING!
Best Fight out there Cotto vs Maywether and Williams vs Pavlik
PS
U really think Hatton beat Collazo? Why did Hatton go back down to 140 saying he din't feel ready for 147?
Friday Jun 26, 2009 02:25:05 PM
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donputo69 bout to meet up with collazo:
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why is mosley crying?...didnt cotto beat him already?....you'll get your chance...cotto will give you a rematch right after he KO pacquiao....yep...you heard it here first...so relax mosley....as for cotto vs pacman?...im taking cotto via DEVESTATING KO in the 10th round...by the way Real Talk?....i lost track of my record....lol....i believe im like 150-15 something like that?....lol....holla back!!!
Friday Jun 26, 2009 02:48:56 PM
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MisterLee @ Fan of the sport:
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Yo man, you made some good points. The lose to hatton was in quotes b/c i didn't think he lost. Don, collazo is awesome! he's one of my favorite fighters, he beat up berto, real bad, shoe shiners always win for some reason... dawon johnson, berto collazo. pc out!
Friday Jun 26, 2009 03:18:19 PM
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Fan of sport@ Mister Lee:
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I thought so because I know you follow the sport. Indeed Collazo is awesome!! One of the best out there he's just a victim of must KO scenarios,(hatton and beto) there no way he can beat Berto unless he pulls out Winky vs Trinidad or KO. I would love to see Collazo vs Quintana lets call it "The Clash of the Underrated!" (hahaha) awesome fight but far from happening.
Friday Jun 26, 2009 04:06:40 PM
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Steve the hater @ Donputo:
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Man you dont know about boxing, you go by heart i like Cotto but he does not have a chance against Pacman, he will get Ko in 6 or less, at the same time all the pacman fans dont want a piece of Mosley because they know he will knock the s...t out pacman really bad.
Friday Jun 26, 2009 04:18:00 PM
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MisterLee:
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@ fan of sport. Awesome writing! It's a wonder you don't write more often!
Friday Jun 26, 2009 04:45:38 PM
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donputo69 eating arroz con chuleta:
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uuuuummmmmmm....steve the hater?....i dont know who u are, but i rarely talk to rookies or nonboxing fans like you...but when a punk calls out my name, i have to retaliate...listen...i know my boxing...and trust me...i rather go for heart instead of been a chicken like scareweather...is funny how you "NON BOXING FANS ALWAYS HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING NEGATIVE ABOUT COTTO....lol....aaawww man...didnt he have a chance vs judah?...or mosley?...they were too fast for him?...plus he got cheated out by margacheato?...and he didnt have a chance against clottey?...yep...keep on doubting my boy...cotto will ko pacman in 10....just keep that in mind ok rookie....holla back!!!
Friday Jun 26, 2009 05:01:06 PM
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THE FLASH:
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PACMAN VS. COTTO-MOSLEY-MAYWEATHER IN JUST ONE NIGHT, ON PACQUIAO, FAREWELL FIGHT. ON DECEMBER VS. COTTO 3 RND KO. VS. MOSLEY 6 RND KO. VS. PBF 9 RND KO. NEXT TO BE THE PRESIDENT OF REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPINNES.2010....
Friday Jun 26, 2009 05:04:45 PM
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Edgar A de Dios:
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Let this fight be. The earlier it is done, the better for boxing. Pacquiao-Cotto is a good match up. Of course, at a catch weight of 143 # to level the playing field. Without a catch weight, Cotto will balloon to 160 # while Pacquiao could only make 148. That's a big and huge disparity, man. And, that's not fair. That, won't be boxing anymore. That is the reason for the weight divisions in the sport.......
Friday Jun 26, 2009 05:12:06 PM
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BIGFREDO76:
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I dont know the final concessions,but if and when Pacman fights Cotto I believe that they make Cotto agree to most of Pacmans demand.Cotto has no leg to stand on in these negotiations.Like Radam said its all about the money.Pacman is the huge draw to this fight.Cotto cant even touch Pacman's PPV numbers.So even if Cotto is a slight favorite to win this fight cuz of his bigger size he loses most of his mojo to a smaller fighter.Pacman is to explosive to fight right now.Cotto at anything under 144 gets wobbled and dropped and thats proven by C class fighters
Friday Jun 26, 2009 05:15:34 PM
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anonymous:
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damn whoever wrote this article is on some serious HATERADE!!! Cotto whipped mosley fair and square a tie would have caused a damn riot you idiot. Ask Dan Rafeal the best boxing analyzer if Margo cheat against Cotto and holla at me, plus Cotto will prolly KO Pac so stfu and accept the truth (open your eyes)...
Friday Jun 26, 2009 05:55:09 PM
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MisterLee @ the Don:
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Yo man! I think you owe Eastar egg an apology! Eastar, anony, and anonymous user, and luistito are all the same person! he 's the one who wrote the quote of note. I had no idea he had such high respect for you! pc out!
Friday Jun 26, 2009 07:02:45 PM
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donputo69 at the barber shop:
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@misterlee....me apologize to an egg?...lmfao...i rather apologize to scareweather before i can apologize to an rotten egg...lol...i believe anony wrote the QON....easter bunny doesnt sound smart to write a quote like that....lol....cotto in 10....ward is a bum....holla back!!!
Friday Jun 26, 2009 07:17:09 PM
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Vince:
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Oh please,Pacman running. you all love him so much that you all don't want to see it.If it was PBF,you all would say he's scared or some other dumb reason.
Friday Jun 26, 2009 07:23:07 PM
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Salt lover:
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donputo69: "yep...keep on doubting my boy...cotto will ko pacman in 10....just keep that in mind ok rookie....holla back!!!" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! Original donputo style!!!! Glad to see ya back, dude!
Friday Jun 26, 2009 08:13:43 PM
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MisterLee @ the Don:
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Believe it or not! Eastar egg wrote it! He's the only one who clones besides a few Radam stalker(s). anony had a meltdown after you left asking pple why everyone loves a "drug dealer", then he asked everyone for sympathy and love, then he decided to start writing some good boxing posts, and he made it on many pple's top p4p tss'ers. Haha... he came a long way man! you oughta give him some props. Ward in 10 (whoever he fights), cotto is a cheater and a bum! pc out! :) hahaha...
Friday Jun 26, 2009 08:42:34 PM
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donputo69 at the barber shop:
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talking about TSS P4P, here's my list...1.donputo69...2.Radam...3.AFN...4.#1pacfan 5.fe'roz 6.anony...7.Real Talk...8.misterlee...9.rudy...10.fistic fury....there u have it.....dp69 p4p list...if i didnt mention ya name, oh well.....step up ya game....ward is a BUM....holla back!!!
Friday Jun 26, 2009 08:58:21 PM
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donputo69 at the barber shop:
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oh $#!t...i forgot bout my boy salt lover....lol...my bad....im gonna takeout fisti fury out of the 10 spot and put you in there...salt is #10 tss p4p....my bad....lol....holla back!!!
Friday Jun 26, 2009 09:02:04 PM
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Salt lover:
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Hehehehehehe, thanks don, I appreaciate. I'll be back later to take that #1 spot. See ya later dude!
Friday Jun 26, 2009 09:33:39 PM
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Erik:
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Problem is, the welterweight division really doesn't have that many top fighters at this point. Cotto is overrated--watch his latest fight again. He hasn't been the same since Margarito, and he knows it. Add to that a catch weight in the low 140s, and we're talking about a recipe for being knocked out by Pacquiao in under 10 rounds.
As for Mosely, don't overestimate him at this point. He looked great against Margarito because Margarito looked extremely lousy and had been caught cheating. Plus, he obviously took Mosley lightly and figured he'd knock him out easily. Mosley's win against Margarito does NOT mean that he's rejuvenated and back to his old self. Let's start looking at reality: the guy is 38. At 147, he's competitive, but again, bring him down to a catch weight in the low 140s and you have a recipe for being knocked out.
Aside from those two, the only other big name at 147 is Mayweather. If Pacquiao wants to be recognized as a top welterweight, he needs to actually fight at welterweight, against an opponent who is, at minimum, not very old, not starved, and not past his prime or still being haunted by being knocked out badly. Mosley and Cotto don't meet those criteria. Mayweather might--depending on how he looks in September. If Pacquiao really wants to create the impression that he can beat the best welterweights, then he needs to fight Mayweather at 147, assuming Mayweather is still his old self.
Of course, there's one other option, but I doubt Pacquiao's people would ever take it: Paul Williams at 147. Beating Paul Williams at 147 would be an extremely great victory and would turn Pacquiao's masquerade as a fighter who can "dominate" anywhere from 130 to 147 into a reality. I doubt he'd have any chance in hell against Williams at 147, but if the only guys you're going to face in each of the weight classes you purport to dominate are guys who lack talent (Diaz, Hatton), and guys who are underweight (DLH, Cotto), then you're only accomplishing things on paper.
Friday Jun 26, 2009 09:59:57 PM
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MisterLee:
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Nice man! i like how you put your name on #1. No time for false humility, but at least you got Radam up there! :) What about school of hard knocks? He's been a little inactive lately, but he's solid. Besides, how can you have a list if you been up in the pen lately? You been stealing the local internet? And you be dissing my boy like I"m saying... andre ward 2009! Pc out! :)
Friday Jun 26, 2009 10:45:27 PM
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Fan of Sport@Steve the Hater:
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Talking about going with heart ,Pacman in 6th KO? Ok your entitled to your opinion thats cool but your wrong. If the fight goes on(which i think it should not!) s going to be the same type of fight as Pacman vs Morales, Barrera and Marquez this does not mean that pacman will win on the contrary, what it means is that is going to be an all out violent fight that could end in a tragedy. Cotto will go all out just like the previous mentioned did the difference is that Cotto is BIGGER , in his PRIME(unlike delahoya) and is a very good boxer (unlike Hatton) let us not talk about odds lets talk about the laws of physics which are totally against Pacman. Pacman can win but it will be uphill he would need a perfect punch with a Force of 1billion newtons! He is the P4P king at 140 pounds and under but 147 its not his realm.
PS
DonPuto69 might be going with his heart but does not mean his wrong.
Friday Jun 26, 2009 11:44:42 PM
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RED:
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I see nothing wrong, or even controversial, with Lotierzo's article. A boxing promoter wanting to capitalize on the talent of his fighters and make a lot of money. Wow! Shocking. So good ol' Bob got the fight he wanted. So? First if all, I agree with those who point out the absurd whinning of those that dislike Cotto or like Shane. Manny vs. Cotto has all the makings of a great fight. I mean, Cotto is not a chump. Second, Cotto beating Manny is not even that much of an unlikely scenario. This is not Buster Douglas beating Tyson. This is not even B-Hop beating a younger Pavlik. Cotto could very well beat Manny. But that's the beauty of being Bob Arum. If Cotto beats Manny, Arum will have the hottest fighter in boxing and a candidate for P4P king. If Manny beats Cotto (as most people believe), Arum will also have the hottest fighter in boxing and the undisputed sweet science king. Shane, well, he can watch and wait. Perhaps that loss to Cotto is hurting more than he thought.
Saturday Jun 27, 2009 06:43:33 AM
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bxingfan2:
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i remember when pacman fought in hbo some years ago. merchant and the other guys talked of pacman wanting to fight and beat the three best mexicans,morales, barrera and jmm. they said that was a big and almost imposible dream. but pacman always wants to fight the best. allhis last opponents were supposed to be the best until they met him, then they are not even good anymore.pacman is a little man with giant fighting heart coupled with dediction and disciplne and a faith. it is not his fault if his opponent looked mediocre when they face him. before the fight starts all of them thinks that they can handle him but when the fight starts they realized they are fighting a whirlwind that turns into a tornado as the fight goes on. now pacman is still the little david that fights the goliaths of boxing. he does not duck anybody and that is a testament of his courage.the bigger guys want to fight him because they believe they can easily beat him and get a lot money at the same time. we should all be gald that there is a Manny Pacquiao in boxing. there is no reason to hate the man. he isa true warrior and and a true gentleman and i doubt it if another one like him will come arround in our lifetime. i am sure those fighters he fought like him more after the fight.
Saturday Jun 27, 2009 01:11:39 PM
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Anony:
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YES MOSLEY LOST A CLOSE FIGHT TO COTTO, BUT COTTO GOT HIS BEHIND KICKED BY MARGARITO( LOADED GLOVES OR NOT) AND MOSLEY WAS BOLD ENOUGH TO CHALLENGE AND BEAT HIM BEFORE THE HE KNEW ABOUT THE LOADED GLOVES...POINT IS COTTO SHOULDVE GAVE MOSLEY A REMATCH PERIOD...NOW MOSLEY IS THE MOST FEARED MAN (IN THAT DIVISION) AND PROMOTERS KNOW IT...
Saturday Jun 27, 2009 02:03:40 PM
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Steve the hater@ fan of sport:
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I pick Pacman over most welter weights is because he wants to fight at 142lbs if Pacman fight at the real welter weight then i would pick Cotto over him but im not too sure, Pacman would put a lot of pressure round after round and when Cotto gets tired Boom thats it,if Cotto can take his punches then it will be a different story,also Cotto is not a big guy he is small like Pacman, but i like to see Mosley vs Pacman,holla peace.
Saturday Jun 27, 2009 02:21:23 PM
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MisterLee:
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@ Anony: the truth hurts! preach to the choir! I always thought the definition of a warrior is a guy who always moves forward and comes to fight, like pacquiao in morales 1 with a cut eye, or jermaine taylor who was up on cards agst froch but elected to trade in round 12, or cotto agst torres. So why are pple congratulating cotto for giving clottey his best shot, getting beat up, then running and doing mitt work for a couple rounds? He squeezed out a disputable split decision in his hometown, while fading, and throwing punches that don't land (look at compubox numbers). Will Cotto ever rematch mosley and/or clottey? if he does, then i call him a warrior. Otherwise, you'll have to forgive me for slamming cotto (no pun intended). pc out! :) :)
Saturday Jun 27, 2009 04:14:25 PM
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RED :
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Margarito beat Cotto "loaded gloves or not". LOL! That should be the comment of the year. Barry Bonds hit more home runs than Hank Aaron, steroids or not. Roy Jones lost in his bid for olympic gold, crooked judges or not. Jimmy Johnson beat Tony Stewart in Taladega circa 2007, tampered car or not. Basically, I hear an alleged boxing fan saying that the victory of an athlete over another while CHEATING is a victory nontheless. Fantastic. Cotto fought Shane. Cotto fought Margarito (loaded gloves and all). Cotto fought Clottey. Point is Cotto fights whomever Arum says. Shane challanged Margarito because he had no one else to challange to make the money he wanted. Cotto (and everyone else who fought manos de plaster of Paris) also challanged Margacheato without knowing about his extra hard gloves. Who knows, maybe Shane can get his rematch against Cotto if the latter beats Manny or vice versa. Then maybe his fans will shut the he'll up.
Saturday Jun 27, 2009 08:27:54 PM
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FOS (fan of sport)@ agony and Mister Lee:
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How is a unanimous decision close? You could argue that a split is close but not unanimous. Lets talk about Shane, his from the one the greatest era of boxing names like Roy Jones,Hopkins, Trinidad, Winky, Delahoya, Vargas, Mayorga are included. Compared to those he will never live up to the nickname Sugar (which belongs to the greatest of their own era Robinson and Leonard.) Sugar Leonard and Sugar Robinson dominated everybody no close call and when they lost they would not be argueing"It was a close UNANIMOUS DECISSION!!) and they would never beg for a fight. Remember back in 2003 the Rematch Oscar and Mosley that mosley got his second air in the champ rounds and WON the fight wasn't that awesome?? And then we find out that he used streroids and claimed he did not know just like Margarito did with his loaded gloves. All credit was take from Margarito but not from Mosley. If all baseplayers that have been caught with steroids(Arod,Ramires,Sosa) lost their credit so should boxers. But Mosley just Hopkins got a chance against a rising star(Pavlik and Cotto) Hopkins did his job and left no doubts Mosley could NOT (Maybe he needed steroids) you could see his eye of defeat in the 12th round(he knew he did not do enough) common the guy went 12 rds with Collazo (should have KO'd him) Mosley has his chance and he blew it(against Cotto). If he really want to live up to his nickname he MUST KO Williams (decision won't work because Quintana alrready did that.)
Saturday Jun 27, 2009 10:24:45 PM
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FOS (fan of sport)@ agony and Mister Lee:
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How is a unanimous decision close? You could argue that a split is close but not unanimous. Lets talk about Shane, his from the one the greatest era of boxing names like Roy Jones,Hopkins, Trinidad, Winky, Delahoya, Vargas, Mayorga are included. Compared to those he will never live up to the nickname Sugar (which belongs to the greatest of their own era Robinson and Leonard.) Sugar Leonard and Sugar Robinson dominated everybody no close call and when they lost they would not be argueing"It was a close UNANIMOUS DECISSION!!) and they would never beg for a fight. Remember back in 2003 the Rematch Oscar and Mosley that mosley got his second air in the champ rounds and WON the fight wasn't that awesome?? And then we find out that he used streroids and claimed he did not know just like Margarito did with his loaded gloves. All credit was take from Margarito but not from Mosley. If all baseplayers that have been caught with steroids(Arod,Ramires,Sosa) lost their credit so should boxers. But Mosley just Hopkins got a chance against a rising star(Pavlik and Cotto) Hopkins did his job and left no doubts Mosley could NOT (Maybe he needed steroids) you could see his eye of defeat in the 12th round(he knew he did not do enough) common the guy went 12 rds with Collazo (should have KO'd him) Mosley has his chance and he blew it(against Cotto). If he really want to live up to his nickname he MUST KO Williams (decision won't work because Quintana alrready did that.)
Saturday Jun 27, 2009 10:41:30 PM
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MisterLee @ FOS:
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Good talking! But let's get down to business: your argument has several shortcomings. First, winky is a natural jr. middleweight/middleweight, mosley is natural lightweight who moved up to welterweight. Mosley was never has best at jr. middle, he was best at lightweight and welter tops. Second, trinidad's only GREAT opponents he's ever faced were oscar, hopkins, whitaker, and wright. technically he lost (9 rounds) to oscar, knocked out by bhop, and outboxed by wright. He never gave oscar a rematch. Vargas got beat by everyone, what i heard a bad decision win over wright, beat by de la hoya, beat by Mosley twice, trinidad, mayorga. Mayorga had a similar fate, getting beat by trinidad, de la hoya, and mosley (his only great opponents besides forrest). Next, that leaves Roy Jones, running from great competition in his prime, got tested positive for anabolic steroids in his fight agst Richard Hall in 2000, tho he kept the belt anyway, plus jones never gave hopkins a rematch b/c he was scared. you got winky or bhop, i cant' dispute their greatness. De la hoya, he fought whitaker, chavez, quartey, trinidad, mosley, gatti (does that even count?), vargas, mosley 2x, sturm, hopkins, mayorga, mayweather, and ultimately pacquiao. Now that's a real man's resume. Sugar is not to their level? ha! Mosley has fought: de la hoya 2x (real men rematch, look at ali and louis!), winky 2x, forrest 2x, fernando 2x, Collazo, cotto, mayorga, margarito. He never ducked nobody, and he never claimed to buy himself out of a good fight (winky who was unknown at the time and oscar NEVER fought him nor forrest). Mosley did not have game plan going into the cotto fight. He claimed he was the bigger (cotto's 3rd fight in welter i believe after quintana and judah), faster, and more skilled fighter. He found out otherwise that night. But mosley did hurt him, and fought decent without a good strategy. Plus the new mosley pumps his jab more often, has better stamina, boxes better instead of going right-hand crazy. Mosley would have fought trinidad had he beat wright ( the winner of that fight was to fight trinidad). I know it's easy to say in hindsight that mosley "easily" beat margarito. but margarito was number 1 welterweight at the time, mosley was seen as "over the hill" and ready to be "retired", mosley did not " have the power to ko margarito" nor the "legs to run for long enough", that margarito's chin would hold up indefinitely. Mosley has never ducked anyone, has never failed to give an unknown but solid fighter a chance for less pay (collazo, winky, forrest) as a chance to challenge himself, has never quit, been knocked out, and only got knocked down once (actually twice) agst forrest, mosley is really everything floyd mayweather will never be. Yes, mosley is not always synonymous with "sugar" b/c his style is more savage than anything: he pracitces "power boxing", putting 100% into every punch, he goes for knockouts, he throws caution and the jab to the wind sometimes, he doesn't stick and move well, his overhand right and left hook are his favorite weapon, he likes to wrestle and fight rough, BUT he's one of the best if not bravest pugilists our time has ever seen? Does mosley got something to prove? Heck no. Cotto is lucky to be fighting at 33. He said pre-marg that mosley was the hardest fight he's had to date due to mosley timing his overhand right over his jab. Cotto has never rematched anyone, torres, chop chop, mosley, margarito, clottey.... nor will he ever, management is moving him along fast in order to reach fame and money before he crashes and burn, same as berto, will there be another collazo fight any time soon? Nope. These guys are protected from the dangerous fights in favor of the money fights. Not to take pacquiao lightly, but he will be compensated nicely, (8 figures), someting mosley probably has NEVER tasted in a fight. You know hagler gave leonard a 12 round instead of 15 round fight, the choice of boxing gloves, and a huge ring to dance in, for the privilege of fighting leonard, think that's not begging? So in other words: "jorge barrios calling valero a long haired prostitute and a communist" is not begging, but mosley kindly calling out pacquiao in the hatton post fight ( he was ignored b/c he has manners and did not force his way), then having a respectful interview on ESPN, then going up to person to roach and pacquiao and extending a friendly challenge/offer is not "calling out" b/c he's not acting like a rude wannabe-gangsta, but a respectful champion, so that's called "begging"? What's with the double standard? Mosley is definitely the opposite of Floyd Mayweather: brave inside and outside the ring, respectful, courteous... a beast in the ring, a gentleman outside the ring. go figure, if anyone needs to prove himself again it's floyd. Let him fight williams, his resume stinks anyway, with hatton and old de la hoya being the best fighters he's ever faced. Gimme a break!
Sunday Jun 28, 2009 03:15:50 AM
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MisterLee uh oh:
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I feel it coming: go ahead SmileyC: "mister lee, i said write a bible fo' sho!" :) Peace and love boxing pple, and pardon the length, mosley's one of my favorite fighters.
Sunday Jun 28, 2009 03:16:57 AM
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Real Talk yeeeeeeaaaaaahh I'm getting Money Oooooooowwww:
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What it do ??? What the bizness is ?!?!? I'm tellin you now ..... Pacman is a phenom, BUT, ...............but, (and this aint rabid fandom) Cotto can box !!!! I can't stress this enough , even Floyd May acknowledges this . We saw what he did against Mosley , and yeah Mosley came on strong in the end , but was outclassed CLEARLY in the first ...let's say 8 rounds of that fight . I picked Mosley in that fight I got one of my rare L's . Pacman's hands are blindingly fast so Cotto should keep them hands high . Pacman won't be as easy to hit as Shane was in that fight because this was Shane with no jab and no head movement or pre- Naz . I don't agree with the catchweight , I think if you want to challenge for the welterweight belt and make history don't halfstep . If it's not 147 and he wins he can't claim that he won at welter . Pacman's speed vs. Cotto's timing and bodypunching . Can you say explosive !!!!!! I'm picking Cotto right now but I'm tilting . Duece Dueces
Sunday Jun 28, 2009 07:51:20 AM
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FOS@ MisterLee:
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HAHAHA! Not even the fans of boxerss want them fighting Williams!!! I agree with you with your points on Mayweather he's resume does stink and he should fight Williams as well (hell everybody should fight Williams). But since you brought up Resumes lets do that. 1st Vargas, he fought Trinidad when he was 20 yrs old (i believe it was to early for him) he was down twice on the first round and kept going til the 12th(KO). He brought to the ring what was expected from Delahoya in his Trinidad fight. After going 12 rounds with Trinidad (like no one else did by the time) he fought Delahoya 10 rds (also used steroids, guess there were not the same that Shane used). He lost against Mosley when he was no longer in his prime(we already had this conversation) and to mayorga as well. Mayorga was the most feared boxer out there after beating Forrest(2x) until he fought Trinidad, Trinidad destroyed him then after Trinidad's did it Delahoya and Mosley followed. my point is that fighting the kind of fight that Maryorga and Vargas had with Trinidad takes a huge TOLL on your body. If Mosley and delahoya would have fought the same Vargas and same Mayorga that fought Trinidad other would have been the story. Now lets talk Delahoya, you really think Delahoya beat Sturn?? Go watch that fight. The only reason that Delahoya was given the decission its because thay wanted to make lots money with the Hopkins. And in nobodies right mind delayoa won 9 rds in the Trinidad fight (NO WAY!) got to youtube watch fight u'll see it. Even oscar appears admiting that he should not had run the LAST FOUR RDS (championship rounds) The first was an even RD(oscar lots jabs and Trinidad more power punches) the 4th and 5th rd Trinidad dominated and the 3rd is debatable. Please go watch the fight in mute and come back to me with your results(you probably will find it a draw). Trinidad resume is much better than Oscar's and Mosley's, he was undefeated from 1990 to 2001 champ since 1994 beated 10 undefeated champions including (Vargas and delahoya). When he won the middleweight championship he won KO over a bigger man (william Joppy) not a controversial decision over some unknown boxer by the time like Delahoya did. And it was Delahoya who never agreed to the rematch ( he knew he could come out witha win), Trinadad called before he fought Pacman and he said he went with "easier match" (backfired!!). delahoya tried buy came up short against Trinidad (ran out of fuel), in a rematch he would have had to fight the kind of fight that Vargas and mayorga brought to trinidad because he cannot pull out a Winky or a Hopkins. On his second fight with Mosley, Delahoya should have won(he might have IF MOSLEY DIN'T USE STEROIDS!!!). Yes i remember that the winner between Winky and Mosley had to fight Trinidad thank God it was Winky who won because if Mosley lost to Cotto (cotto being the smaller man and much weaker puncher the Trinidad) i would not want to see how mosley would end up against Trinidad. But Mosley is well known for beating old retired boxers no longer in their prime(Vargas and Mayorga) might as well go fight trinidad at a catch weight(now he has chance). Between you and me I think Winky won the Hopkins fight. You say Cotto hasn't rematches anybody (don't need to yet, plenty of more interesting fight than mosle 2, Clottey2, Chop Chop 2 or Torres 2 out there). On Torres and CHop Chop they were ko'd, if you think they should get a rematch why doesn't Williams(the unbeatable that has been beaten decisively no palster or steroids) rematch Quintana?
P.S
I we are going to rank the previous mentioned (ignoring the steroids use) from the old school Mosley will pop up last, he had his chance he was the P4P until he fought Forrest than he just showed he doesn’t have what it takes and the fact is that we CANNOT ignore the steroid usage! ITS CHEATING, it’s like using LOADED GLOVES but instead your biologically loaded! All I am saying is that we have to MEASURE everybody with the same bar and if Roy Jones , Vargas amd Mosley used steroids then their legacy is stained. They cheated the sport and there's no excuse for that.
Sorry it was so long, Peace!!!
Sunday Jun 28, 2009 12:48:37 PM
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norman:
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IMO, the catchweight is here to stay in boxing because that is the only body measurement that can be moved. Imagine, a five foot guy fighting a seven foot guy with the same weight? Should we ask the taller guy to go down to six feet? Or ask the five foot guy to go up to six feet? Or better still, the guy with the longer reach cut it shorter to equal his opponent's shorter reach? These may be exaggerated physical mismatches but the point is that we want boxers to be matched, despite their physical differences, because we want to see them fight each other. The catchweight bridges the gap between adjacent divisions.
The issue of catchweight will not arise if we dont want these boxers, in this case Cotto and Pacquaio, to fight each other. Even the fighters and their promoters will not want to make this bout if they know the fans will not watch it.
The catchweight merely levels the fighters to a certain extent. If at least the physical attributes are equal or nearly equal, then the talent and their intelligence will determine if they will win or lose, although the sport of boxing favors physically gifted fighters.
I assume those that refuse the idea of catchweight want to see fights that feature physically mismatched opponents, and that would be predictable and no longer the sweet science that is ought to be.
If one says a fighter should not demand equality in weight, at least a day before the fight, either you want the fighter to lose (if he is physically inferior, lighter, smaller) or win (if he is physically superior, heavier, bigger).
Still on catchweights, why not make the fighters weigh exactly the maximum of their division on the night of the fight so that the physical inequality between them is eliminated. Hence, Cotto and Pacman on fight night itself should weigh no more than 47 lbs.
Is it a fair boxing match if at fight time, one fighter is 144lbs and the other is 160lbs? Is that a fight between welterweights or a fight between welterweight and a middleweight?
We just want the boxers to box and not to kill. We just want to be entertained by boxing and not to be entertained by murder atop the ring.
Peace to all boxing fans!
Sunday Jun 28, 2009 02:22:54 PM
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norman:
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IMO, the catchweight is here to stay in boxing because that is the only body measurement that can be moved. Imagine, a five foot guy fighting a seven foot guy with the same weight? Should we ask the taller guy to go down to six feet? Or ask the five foot guy to go up to six feet? Or better still, the guy with the longer reach cut it shorter to equal his opponent's shorter reach? These may be exaggerated physical mismatches but the point is that we want boxers to be matched, despite their physical differences, because we want to see them fight each other. The catchweight bridges the gap between adjacent divisions.
The issue of catchweight will not arise if we dont want these boxers, in this case Cotto and Pacquaio, to fight each other. Even the fighters and their promoters will not want to make this bout if they know the fans will not watch it.
The catchweight merely levels the fighters to a certain extent. If at least the physical attributes are equal or nearly equal, then the talent and their intelligence will determine if they will win or lose, although the sport of boxing favors physically gifted fighters.
I assume those that refuse the idea of catchweight want to see fights that feature physically mismatched opponents, and that would be predictable and no longer the sweet science that is ought to be.
If one says a fighter should not demand equality in weight, at least a day before the fight, either you want the fighter to lose (if he is physically inferior, lighter, smaller) or win (if he is physically superior, heavier, bigger).
Still on catchweights, why not make the fighters weigh exactly the maximum of their division on the night of the fight so that the physical inequality between them is eliminated. Hence, Cotto and Pacman on fight night itself should weigh no more than 47 lbs.
Is it a fair boxing match if at fight time, one fighter is 144lbs and the other is 160lbs? Is that a fight between welterweights or a fight between welterweight and a middleweight?
We just want the boxers to box and not to kill. We just want to be entertained by boxing and not to be entertained by murder atop the ring.
Peace to all boxing fans!
Sunday Jun 28, 2009 02:27:56 PM
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Anonymous user:
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HAHAHA! Not even the fans of boxerss want them fighting Williams!!! I agree with you with your points on Mayweather he's resume does stink and he should fight Williams as well (hell everybody should fight Williams). But since you brought up Resumes lets do that. 1st Vargas, he fought Trinidad when he was 20 yrs old (i believe it was to early for him) he was down twice on the first round and kept going til the 12th(KO). He brought to the ring what was expected from Delahoya in his Trinidad fight. After going 12 rounds with Trinidad (like no one else did by the time) he fought Delahoya 10 rds (also used steroids, guess there were not the same that Shane used). He lost against Mosley when he was no longer in his prime(we already had this conversation) and to mayorga as well. Mayorga was the most feared boxer out there after beating Forrest(2x) until he fought Trinidad, Trinidad destroyed him then after Trinidad's did it Delahoya and Mosley followed. my point is that fighting the kind of fight that Maryorga and Vargas had with Trinidad takes a huge TOLL on your body. If Mosley and delahoya would have fought the same Vargas and same Mayorga that fought Trinidad other would have been the story. Now lets talk Delahoya, you really think Delahoya beat Sturn?? Go watch that fight. The only reason that Delahoya was given the decission its because thay wanted to make lots money with the Hopkins. And in nobodies right mind delayoa won 9 rds in the Trinidad fight (NO WAY!) got to youtube watch fight u'll see it. Even oscar appears admiting that he should not had run the LAST FOUR RDS (championship rounds) The first was an even RD(oscar lots jabs and Trinidad more power punches) the 4th and 5th rd Trinidad dominated and the 3rd is debatable. Please go watch the fight in mute and come back to me with your results(you probably will find it a draw). Trinidad resume is much better than Oscar's and Mosley's, he was undefeated from 1990 to 2001 champ since 1994 beated 10 undefeated champions including (Vargas and delahoya). When he won the middleweight championship he won KO over a bigger man (william Joppy) not a controversial decision over some unknown boxer by the time like Delahoya did. And it was Delahoya who never agreed to the rematch ( he knew he could come out witha win), Trinadad called before he fought Pacman and he said he went with "easier match" (backfired!!). delahoya tried buy came up short against Trinidad (ran out of fuel), in a rematch he would have had to fight the kind of fight that Vargas and mayorga brought to trinidad because he cannot pull out a Winky or a Hopkins. On his second fight with Mosley, Delahoya should have won(he might have IF MOSLEY DIN'T USE STEROIDS!!!). Yes i remember that the winner between Winky and Mosley had to fight Trinidad thank God it was Winky who won because if Mosley lost to Cotto (cotto being the smaller man and much weaker puncher the Trinidad) i would not want to see how mosley would end up against Trinidad. But Mosley is well known for beating old retired boxers no longer in their prime(Vargas and Mayorga) might as well go fight trinidad at a catch weight(now he has chance). Between you and me I think Winky won the Hopkins fight. You say Cotto hasn't rematches anybody (don't need to yet, plenty of more interesting fight than mosle 2, Clottey2, Chop Chop 2 or Torres 2 out there). On Torres and CHop Chop they were ko'd, if you think they should get a rematch why doesn't Williams(the unbeatable that has been beaten decisively no palster or steroids) rematch Quintana?
P.S
I we are going to rank the previous mentioned (ignoring the steroids use) from the old school Mosley will pop up last, he had his chance he was the P4P until he fought Forrest than he just showed he doesn’t have what it takes and the fact is that we CANNOT ignore the steroid usage! ITS CHEATING, it’s like using LOADED GLOVES but instead your biologically loaded! All I am saying is that we have to MEASURE everybody with the same bar and if Roy Jones , Vargas amd Mosley used steroids then their legacy is stained.
Sorry it was so long, Peace!!!
Sunday Jun 28, 2009 06:19:17 PM
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MisterLee @ FOS:
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Great thoughts! I think Wiliams is a great fighter, he has to earn his big fights just like eveyrone else, even if he he is good enough. Did you not see William's first round knockout of Quintana in their rematch? That was before he fought verno phillips at jr. middleweight. Mayweather's resume stank. I agree vargas was a supremely talented boxer. I did not see the entire de la hoya fight, but I thought vargas showed some impressive athleticism and ability just based on what i saw from that fight. He probably was moved too fast. It's sad to see a good athlete get wasted by all those great veterans early in his career. come on, no matter how who mayorga beat, he was simply a brawler, and a bully with balls, but he would never be a match for mosley de la hoya nor trinidad at any time in either of their primes or right after. I do admit mosley laid his paws on the two gatekeepers later than the others, but i don't see that as his fault. Not his fault judah's hand went thru a "shower door". The de la hoya fight, i was simply pointing out his resume, not whether or not he truly beat sturm, but I feel a fighter should be judged by their resume (win or lose), not simply an all win record but dodging the greats. Mosley's losses are very honorable, so are de la hoya's. But ya gotta admire mosley's courage for fighting prime cotto, margarito. I dunno, i don't see trinidad as having the handspeed and boxing skills cotto possesses, but i have to watch his old tapes to find out for certain. But i think you're making too much out of his previous wins agst good but not great opponents (tho i have to review tape on this too). As far as mosley's p4p status, he fell not b/c he wasn't good enough. He fell b/c at that time he wasn't looking for money fights, or tune up fights, he wanted to fight the best and that was what he got. He could have cushioned his record with some wins and big money fights to hype himself up, but he's the OPPOSITE of mayweather, takes ALL CHANCES to challenge himself, but now he's at the point in his career, he has like 3-4 fights left tops, he wants to earn his pay and tip his hat farewell, ain't nothing wrong with that. Good talking! I learned a lot about these late 90's early 2000's welterweight/jr/middleweights from you. Thanks! take care! with the steroids, I feel after a suspension, they're fine, but in mosley's case, epo + the cream, might give him more endurance and stuff, no nec, more strength, not to say it makes it more right, but having loaded gloves is like having a weapon, having drugs is like an edge but not a deadly assault weapon. Pc out! we might have to continue this convo on another article as this one is about to be off the front page. pc out!
Sunday Jun 28, 2009 10:01:45 PM
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FOS@MisterLee:
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Great talk!
Sunday Jun 28, 2009 10:59:49 PM
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MisterLee @ FOS:
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You too!!!
Tuesday Jun 30, 2009 04:15:03 PM
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tinyg:
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pacquiao vs cotto is a crowd drawer. both are exciting fighters.
Tuesday Jul 7, 2009 02:57:41 AM
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piero colucci:
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for all of you guys: boxing it's business money maker like bob arum got already everything figure out. he now give the stop to pacquiao put him against cotto(he made cotto look bad against margarito and clottey ) some how!!! arum own margarito and clottey rights ,dont forget!!!!! after cotto looks good crushing manny to retire from boxing! arum still have cotto with an new contract then with miguel fighting mayweather ,win!!!!!!! then will kick margarito ass in 2 rounds, than will remach mosley when it's 40 years old . mosley lost with cotto just becouse age!!! it will lose agin for the same reason! i am a crazy fan of miguel cotto but if mosley was 4 years younger could beat even klichko.
Friday Jul 17, 2009 08:53:24 AM
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Boxing Johnny:
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how about we just talk about the fight......forget about the business side of it....what we have before us is a massacre of cotto.....and believe me i love cotto, i've been followin him for years.....but this is a bad fight for him to take....since the margarito brick hands assault cotto hasn't been the same....it is evident if u were to watch his previous fights with his more recents.......he is no longer a stalker/body puncher all out devastating hook to the torso kinda guy anymore....he's more about sliding around the ring, playing defense, counterpuncher style and he's lost that arrogance and no fear personality to him when he walks into the ring. And this is exactly what pacquiao saw when he watched cotto's fight vs clottey in person. Pacman has only gotten better since hes moved up in weight....as this is also evident in watching his previous with his more recent. The man has gone from a punch for punch warrior....right jab,right jab, boom straight left.....to a methodical but at the same time vicious onslaught boxer who is 3 punches ahead of the one he just through. he knows exactly how your going to react to him and if he doesn't he figures you out.....as he did vs hatton in the second rd.....if you notice he through that right jab about 8 to 10 times to see how hatton reacts towards it and the first time he through the left he missed....15 secs later ....TKO....this is a bad fight for cotto b/c this will be the last mega fight for him....pacquiao will exploit him....he's too fast...his defense too good for cotto's slow but powerful punches....and he's just too smart..........Pacman KO in 9th
Tuesday Jul 21, 2009 04:05:18 PM
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Boxing Bulletin:
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go manny
Wednesday Nov 11, 2009 01:31:00 AM
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Gus:
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is there a bonus for any boxer if they get to the 12th round?
Sunday Nov 15, 2009 04:25:08 PM
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You Have To Take The Test To Be Called The Best
"People can say whatever they like about Floyd Mayweather Jr....and they will....but they can never say the man challenges himself to be the best." ---TSS All-Star reader El Feroz weighs in on who he thinks is at blame for the Manny-Money negotiation flameout
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