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| The 25-year-old Berto gained a bit more knowledge of his craft on Saturday. That will come in handy when he gets his shot against the game's elite. |
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Like Georgie Benton Used To Say...
By Ron Borges
The venerable old Philadelphia trainer George Benton used to bark out advice to Pernell Whitaker with a voice that sounded like Barry White on steroids. Mid-fight his words always seemed to be a variation on the same theme: “Win this fight! Look good next fight.’’
Whitaker followed that philosophy, often in boring fashion, all the way to the International Boxing Hall of Fame. For several years he was considered among the best pound-for-pound fighters of his time. He could box and, when pushed, he could fight, but he tried to avoid the latter whenever possible, understanding that you are not paid extra for getting hit in the head unnecessarily.
In a convoluted way this brings us to WBC welterweight champion Andre Berto, who Saturday night easily defended his portion of the 147-pound title by outboxing and out-thinking junior welterweight title holder Juan Urango for 12 rounds.
Urango was never in the fight, a fact reflected in judges’ scorecards that read 118-110 twice and 117-111 by a more generous observer of the action at the Hard Rock Arena in Hollywood, Fla. This was a marked departure from Berto’s last title defense, when he was ill-prepared he now says for a night with crafty Luis Collazo.
Because of that, the fight degenerated into a battle royal down the stretch in which the champion had to rally mightily, which he did, to hold on to his title belt. Not surprisingly, Berto was heavily criticized after that fight in many corners for “struggling’’ against Collazo.
So what happens after he beats Urango easily? He’s criticized for not making an exciting fight out of it.
Fortunately for Berto, he seems to be one fighter born without ears. Or at least with the ability to turn them on and off depending on whether what he’s hearing is worth paying attention to or merely white noise. Criticism of his performance against Urango sounds like the latter in this corner.
Was it the most scintillating match in welterweight history? Far from it. Might he have been bolder at times? Perhaps so. But had the thing degenerated into a continuation of what went on in Round 4 and Berto found a way to win in a take-one-to-give one affair he would today be hearing criticism for ending up in a slugfest with a junior welterweight.
Such is the fate of a young boxer burdened with skills and high expectations. If he wins easy it was too easy or he should have done more. If he struggles he isn’t what they thought he was.
Meanwhile, Berto is now 25-0 and laying down a pretty good foundation of wins over quality opponents from whom he can leave the ring with a bit more knowledge of his craft and a bit more confidence for the night he finally ends up in the ring against one of the top welterweights in the world.
What happens on that night will remain a mystery until he faces such a challenger from the iron that people like Miguel Cotto, Floyd Mayweather, Jr., Paul Williams, Shane Mosley and the presently on hiatus Antonio Margarito represent but Saturday night was an example of a guy who learned an important lesson from the Collazo fight and showed the extent of that knowledge.
Berto was prepared, had a plan and stuck to it. This resulted in an easy, one-sided victory based on an endless stream of jab-right hand, jab-right hands. A slugfest it was not but that was the point.
Berto’s corner men did not want to see him succumb to either that or a loss of his mental edge, as he claims occurred early in Collazo fight. He did not. The result was he wins easily and immediately is asked why he didn’t get rid of Urango.
If he had gotten rid of Urango, it would be said the challenger was an under sized opponent and stopping him proved nothing. If he struggled, as in the Collazo fight, he would be seen as less than what some people think he is. What’s a guy to do?
In the end, just what Andre Berto did Saturday night and Pernell Whitaker did all the way to the Hall of Fame. Win this fight, look good next fight…and if you can make it easy do so because there will be hard nights coming soon enough. Why rush the process?
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deepwater:
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Berto is a dud champion so far. Sweet pea was exciting in there and you got your monies worth watching him fight. im still sour on bertos so called win over collazo. i figuered he would look good against handpicked ,strong but slow urango. he didnt look good and i would not pay for a ppv card headlining berto.
Monday Jun 1, 2009 09:03:13 AM
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Big Daddy :
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Feel Sorry for Berto !?..LOL. Gimme a Break Mr. Borges. You make it sound like Andre was forced to fight the undeserving Urango. When in fact, he was a Hand Picked opponent.. an Easy Payday. Instead of the " Win Today, Look Good Tomorrow" Crap, Which I'm sure that no fan appreciates. How Bout?.. "Act like you deserve to be called Champ and take this Bum Out!". And Next Time take on a Real Contender.
Monday Jun 1, 2009 09:41:27 AM
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MisterLee:
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I'd much rather see him fight with a mediocre welterweight than a decent jr. welterweight. When they announced a jr. welterweight, and not even that, one that couldn't box, i knew we were in for a crap night. I'd have given Paulie Malignaggi a much better chance in winning, or alfonso gomez would have made it exciting (ala poor man's Cotto). Where' s colllazo? He's kinda MIA, i need another fight Louie! Jia you! aja aja hwaiting! malen malen! Ga yao! See ya!
Monday Jun 1, 2009 10:21:58 AM
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jt:
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he might keep winning, but with that gameplan, against that level of competition, i'm not watching.
Monday Jun 1, 2009 11:02:23 AM
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#1 Pacfan "P4P Legend":
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I agree with Big Daddy, you cannot put a title holder up and down the latter. You have to keep going with the momemtum and keep testing your fighter. They should have given Collazo a rematch instead of going the down the list with a Jr. Welterweight. The performance was great but it does not get the attention from the elites and the fans that demand match-ups. I hope to see him matched up with maybe the loser of Cotto-Clottey fight or with Froggy Cintron. Payce!
Monday Jun 1, 2009 11:12:52 AM
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#1 Pacfan "P4P Legend":
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I have to give Mosley the biggest respect for willing to fight Pacquiao in a catch-weight at 142-144 pounds. I believe this is the toughest fight for Pacquiao but now that it's at a catch weight I feel a bit of ease. I just wish they could make the fight at 147 so there wouldn't be any excuses. But I feel this will be a very good fight if it were to happen. TSS regulars, what do you guys think of this fight?
Monday Jun 1, 2009 11:19:34 AM
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MisterLee:
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Mosley will rehydrate to 159, and have problems with pacquiao's speed, and will knock pacquiao out in rounds 9 or 10. That's my opinion tho, as a sugar fan. pc out! :)
Monday Jun 1, 2009 11:52:54 AM
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Radam G, a humble PacManite:
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Wow! Wow! Nice piece, Superfightwriter Ron B! YOU DA MAN! Berto is a class act that is on his way. Dude can straight up rumble not stumble because of the fans and critics who don't know the game. Berto **is ready for all the big GUNS. He is indeed somewhat of a right-handed fighting Sweet Pea Whitaker. The kids has a long future. Holla!
Monday Jun 1, 2009 12:32:01 PM
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brownsugar:
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Finally a writer who "Gets IT",.. Ron defies the critical thinking of the naysayers with a dose of the truth,.. Berto's future is bright,.. can't wait to see him go again...
Monday Jun 1, 2009 12:41:54 PM
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brownsugar@#1Pacfan:
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Pacfan..... Pacman hasn't made any commitment to fight Mosely or anyone else,.. he's reserving his choice for at least a couple of months,.. Mosely would be useless at 142,.. how many years has it been? since he's even been close to that weight,.. this is a desperate attempt by Shane to get a BIG payday,.. who can blame him??? but still there's no way he could make the weight without giving up a few pints of blood before the weigh-in (I actually wouldn't be surprised if he really tried it,...I bet Ricky Hatton could beat a dried out Shane MOsely at 142
Monday Jun 1, 2009 12:50:10 PM
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#1 Pacfan "P4P Legend":
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@brownsugar, I know Pacquiao hasn't announce his commitment to fight Mosley. I was saying that Mosley is willing to give Pacquiao a shot at a catch-weight of 142-144. Mosley would be too drained at 142 is correct but who can blame the two when Mayweather is making it difficult for everybody. All the big names are at welterweight so he tries to target them guys and try to meet in the middle.
Monday Jun 1, 2009 01:26:28 PM
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JT:
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Let's not call him Sweet Pea yet. He can outrun stalkers, but can he dodge against someone with his hand speed?
Monday Jun 1, 2009 01:35:49 PM
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ali:
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I hope Mosley does'nt agree to fight Pac at 142 he needs to be smart. I know he wants a big money fight but there Cotto is still out there if he wins his up coming fight with Clottey. A fight with him would make him alot of money and its a fight he can win. At 142 he would be to drained to beat Pac I wonder is Oscar telling him to not do it. Mosley should just wait and see who fights Pac next if it's Mayweather he should fight Cotto if it's Cotto he should fight Mayweather either way he's going to make alot of money
Monday Jun 1, 2009 03:04:42 PM
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#1 Pacfan "P4P Legend":
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Ali, don't expect to see a Pacquiao-Mayweather anytime this year because Mayweather-Marquez is in July. Which does not give enough time for a break, negoatiations, and training camp. Time is running out for Mosley and that's why I think he is targeting Pacquiao in a desperation deal. It's a tough situation for all them guys, if it's not weight issue it's money issues and if it's not money it's an argument to who brings the fans.
Monday Jun 1, 2009 03:47:22 PM
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ali:
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#1PacFan.... you make some good points but at the end of the day money going to make the fight between Mayweather and Pac happen. Together they will make more money then they would fighting somebody else no matter how they split it. 50-50 is how they should do it and give the fans what they want and thats to find out who is pound for pound #1.
Monday Jun 1, 2009 07:21:18 PM
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DaveB:
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There has to be a happy medium. (Talking about Berto.)
Monday Jun 1, 2009 07:24:47 PM
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Fe'ROZ :
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This article is about Berto but we all want to talk about Manny, Shane, Cintron, Floyd, Cotto, Clottey and PW.......the fighters Andre will ultimately have to take on and beat to maintain our ink. Berto has much work ahead. Me, I'm waiting on the Melee in Manhattan, Miquel Cotto and Joshua Clottey. Oh, and PBF, this one is for bragging rights ........ the money will follow.
Monday Jun 1, 2009 08:18:20 PM
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the Roast:
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Berto is still a young fighter. He is getting on the job training. Berto is only WBC champ because Mayweather vacated the belt when he retired. I can cut him some slack because he is clearly still learning. The dude he beat for the vacant belt was a nobody. Then he fights a veteran who has a few losses in Collazo. Next up its a short mauler-brawler guy. Sounds like the way to move along a prospect to me. I dont think Berto will be able to beat any of the big names mentioned above but he's still on the way up.
Monday Jun 1, 2009 08:24:54 PM
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brownsugar:
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#1 PacFan,.. how does Mayweather get the blame for everybodies issues,.. Pac is the man in charge and can pick and choose from a few excellent canidates on Oct 17 ,.. Mayweathers only job is to increase demand by having an outstanding performance against JMM,.. which ain't gonna be easy....
Monday Jun 1, 2009 08:25:33 PM
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#1 Pacfan "P4P Legend":
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@brownsugar, how does May get the blame for everybodies issues? 1: Mayweather is already trying to price himself in a Pacquiao fight(does Margarito ring a bell). 2: Does not want to fight Mosley because he already has 5 losses in his record( didn't Baldomir have 10 losses when he faced him). and 3: He waited almost two years for Cotto, Marg, and Mosley to beat each other's brains out before wanting to come back to finally face one of them; the funny thing about that is he says they all lost to one and another while nobody beat me. I have this weird feeling that as soon as he's finished with Marquez he will retire again.
Monday Jun 1, 2009 09:14:45 PM
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#1 Pacfan :
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@Ali, I hope you're right.
Monday Jun 1, 2009 09:15:25 PM
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Real Talk:
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I still haven't seen the fight yet, too much work . I'll watch it on demand . I do agree with Borges though . It's way too much over analizing and criticizing going on lately . I thought I was analitical . Dueces
Monday Jun 1, 2009 09:16:03 PM
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Big Daddy's Having Fun (-:
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Way to Spit Game #1 Pacfan.. MisterLee's Bring' It too. And the people on the Other Side of the Discussion are making Valid Points as well.
Monday Jun 1, 2009 09:41:39 PM
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Uruk-Hai:
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You of all people Mr. Borges should have more common sense. Dude you've been in the business for decades not to have some semblance of common sense. Boxing is a sport and also an entertainment, if you want accolades, you must fight the best and look good in doing it. Urango was a handpicked opponent and handpicked as he was, Berto couldn't even finish him or at the very least look good in doing it. There's no need for analytical thinking if you got common sense. Which by this time... you should.
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 05:29:11 AM
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GOAT:
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Boxing 101 gentlemen, If two fighters are fighting each other the fighter with the biggest earning potential gets the bigger share of the purse. In the case of PBF vs PACMAN it's not who is more exciting, fan friendly or famous, it's who will generate more money. PBF and PACMAN's last two fights were inronically against the same two oponents. PBF outsold PACMAN in both fights (ODH and Hatton) and he will more than likely outsell PACMAN vs JMM, so he will get the bigger percentage vs PACMAN. It's not who you like or who is more exciting, it's who sells more and according to the numbers, PBF has outsold PACMAN. I think Bob Arum will price PACMAN out of the fight. PACMAN is not scarred of PBF but Bob Arum and Freddie Roach don't think PACMAN can beat him and therefore will try to avois him. Mark my word!
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 06:47:13 AM
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ali:
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@GOAT.....your right but I say 50-50 is what they should do cause Bob Arum ego is not going to let Mayweather get a bigger % of the money. Boxing needs fights like this to happen there is another sport out there called MMA doing very well and people will get tired of not seeing the biggest and best fights being made. I wish more fighters would get involved in there negotiations cause if they did I think fights would be easier to make but then again fighters have egos too.
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 09:43:55 AM
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Radam G, a humble PacManite:
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I have a funny feeling you make be right about Money May, #1PacFan. The game is all about the big money business. When another Asian by the name Aaron "The Hawk" Pryor was a hot little man wanting to come up, Sugar Ray Leonard and The Hitman Tommy Hearns ducked him. (He kicked Hearn's butt in the amateurs. Go and watch it on youtube. It is the lightweight National Golden Gloves finals of 1976.) Since you like to use the duck word. I guess the game is all about doing the duck for the low risk and high, easy purses. Sugar Ray Robinson did it. Sugar Ray Leonard did it. And even Sugar Shane Mosley did it and is doing it. But what do I know? Dibella doesn't like the Pactypes or even the giants from the old Soviet Union. And that sucka doesn't even like Chris "The legit Nightmare" Arreola. His first language isn't English and he is too brown. Dibella is a promoter's jokecase and a human nutcase. Wow! Let me leave him be. I no speakee da goodee English, lmao! Holla!
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 11:03:42 AM
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#1 Pacfan "P4P Legend":
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@Goat, It's the case of exciting, fan friendly, and famous when it comes who will generate the most money. For example Oscar Dela Hoya, he didn't have the greatest record in boxing but he definitely was in the most exciting fights in our time. He was fan friendly and became an icon to the public, doing tons of charity to his community which is why he became so famous. Let's look at it Manny, who is the MOST exciting fighter since the Duran, Hagler, Hearns, and Leonard eras. He is so fan friendly that he worries more about how people feel about him than anything. Manny is the KING in the Philippines but he is so famous in the states that I believe he is as famous if not more than Floyd. I say 55-45 in favor of Manny but I can agree with Ali on the 50-50 split.
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 11:15:46 AM
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#1 Pacfan "P4P Legend":
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I'm going to check it out Radam, Payce!!
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 11:18:47 AM
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#1 Pacfan "P4P Legend":
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One last thing GOAT, it was called a circus match and it still made 1.5 PPV buys with the fact that economy is collapsing same goes with the Hatton fight.
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 11:20:50 AM
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GOAT:
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@ #1 Pacfan, how can you say PACMAN is more fan friendly, exciting, etc when PBF outsells him? Fact of the matter is PBF did better numbers vs similar oponenets than PACMAN. If I sell a 09 BMW for $50,000.00 and you sell the same car for $60,000.00 then you are the better seller! pont blank! The thing about prize fighter is people pay money to see their favorite fighter win and they pay the same amount of money to see their most hated fighter loose.
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 11:48:11 AM
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MisterLee @ GOAT:
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It's not about fan-friendly or exciting fighter: Pacquiao is the p4p best fighter in the world, he's a growing legend and an international icon, and he is the talk of boxing and boxing fans today. Whether or not there is the complete mainstream appeal to this date, in the boxing world, Pacquiao is king, and Mayweather needs pacquiao. Not the other way around, so pacquiao should say as Jones said to Bhop: "60-40 and i'll whoop yo' ass" .... " Sounds like two cats who dunno what da' HELL they talkin' about".....without Mayweather, pacquiao still has marquez, mosley, and cotto to choose from, and countless others who WANT a crack at Pacquiao, not mayweather. You think mayweather will be happy passing on a pacquiao fight, what lies beyond that? Mosley, cotto, clottey, williams.... that's not a fun set of fights he would look forward to, b/c who else could he fight that is : 1.) good 2.) fan friendly 3.) make for a good fight 4.) has p4p status and a following. He ain't gonna fight bhop, pavlik, dawson, cintron, angulo, winky wright, nor paul williams, so that leaves cotto and mosley are the only viable options if the pacquiao fight doesn't work. There are no other smaller guys with good followings and with a #2 p4p status like marquez. He's gotten so much heat for this fight, mayweather ain't gonna fight another featherweight for a while, so mayweather gonna think real hard, and even pacquiao is gonna get him to bend on negotiations, maybe 55-45, but it ain't never gonna be no 50-50, mayweather doesn't deserve that for being retired for a year, and fighting the #2 p4p fighter in Marquez at a weight class 3-4 more than he's used to fighting. Mayweather gonna either retire, fight pacquiao, or fight the welterweights. That's how i feel. Pc out!
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 12:00:00 PM
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GOAT @ MisterLee:
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PBF has the same options PACMAN has. Why do you and others continue to say PACMAN is "great" and a "growing legend" for beating the same fighters PBF has? Boxing is a business and the only way to put a price tag on who is the p4p or who is more exciting is by counting PPV buys and buts in seats. PBF produces more PPV buys and puts more buts in seats than PACMAN, these are the facts. PBF actually has more options because he can fight at higher weights without girly catweights like PACAMN. PBF can easily fight at 154 on down wheareas PACMAN is maxed out about 147.
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 12:17:00 PM
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GOAT @ MisterLee:
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PBF has the same options PACMAN has. Why do you and others continue to say PACMAN is "great" and a "growing legend" for beating the same fighters PBF has? Boxing is a business and the only way to put a price tag on who is the p4p or who is more exciting is by counting PPV buys and buts in seats. PBF produces more PPV buys and puts more buts in seats than PACMAN, these are the facts. PBF actually has more options because he can fight at higher weights without girly catweights like PACAMN. PBF can easily fight at 154 on down wheareas PACMAN is maxed out about 147.
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 12:26:02 PM
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ali:
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@MisterLee.......Lets see how Mayweather does numbers wise with Marquez if it's better then what Pac did with him then Mayweather is going to have even more leverage at the negotiation table. If Mayweather does better numbers what would you say the split should be.
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 02:18:34 PM
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#1 Pacfan "P4P Legend":
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@GOAT, how did ODLH become the sports' #1 attraction? He was never #1 P4P, he wasn't undefeated. You know why? It's because he took on the best possible opponents in front of him. Though he wasn't successful most of the time he still got respect from everybody. Oscar carried the load in PPV buys in their fight and Hatton brought the fans to the arena. Ricochet. If you sell an 09 Beamer for 50k and I sell for 60k it just means you are in more need of the money than I am. Same goes with Floyd, he will get desperate and will have budge otherwise face the Big Three(Mosle, Cotto, Margarito). If his ego is as big as I think it is we may not see him fight after Marquez.
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 02:31:27 PM
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#1 Pacfan \:
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Great points MisteLee!
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 02:32:24 PM
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MisterLee @ #1 pacfan:
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Come on! It's the big FOUR: Cotto, clottey, mosley, and williams. Margarito is gonna be Tijuana's best cab driver. The guy is thru man, thre's no way he can pick his career back up from this, nor will CSAC ever reinstitute him in my opinion. @ Ali, it's a win win for marquez, if he wins the fight, it makes him legendary, if he loses, he lost to a bigger guy who's top p4p figter. Lose lose for may, if he wins, he beat a smaller guy who's 6 years older, if he loses, he lost to a smaller guy who's 6 years older. It's not about numbers, pacquiao has the p4p status, it's how he eased out the better split with hatton even tho hatton in theory brings bigger numbers (I think). Pac's gonna make Mayweather limbo to fight him. Retirement or fighting another top 5 welterweight or the worst fate: losing to Pacquiao are his only options. That's my opinion.
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 02:42:00 PM
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MisterLee:
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The only "money" fights out there after Marquez are only with Pacquiao or a top 5 welterweight. Money ain't gonna cash in with tune-up fights the rest of his career. If he fights another smaller guy, there will be a public backlash, the public ain't that stupid and cannot be fooled, they would stop buying his fights. Pc out!
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 02:44:25 PM
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Radam G, a humble PacManite:
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No! Money May-Canvas-kissing Marquez will not out PacMan last four bouts. I predict that July 18 will be a 3/4 filled arena and about 250,000 PPV. I'll be one of the paid arses in ringside with Posse Pac and Pera Pac. This bout is going to be boring! But Money May should and will pull it out. In the words of the soon-to-be-released Don, "You heard it here, first. Holla back, ladies! Holla!
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 03:08:46 PM
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Radam G, a humble PacManite:
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No! Money May-Canvas-kissing Marquez will ***not out do PacMan last four bouts. I predict that July 18 will be a 3/4 filled arena and about 250,000 PPV. I'll be one of the paid arses in ringside with Posse Pac and Pera Pac. This bout is going to be boring! But Money May should and will pull it out. In the words of the soon-to-be-released Don, "You heard it here, first. Holla back, ladies! Holla!
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 03:11:38 PM
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brownsugar:
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#1PacFan,.. your blaming Floyd for supposedly ruining boxing seem to stem from the fact that Mayweather hasn't been what you wanted him to be,.. it's called free will,.. and while your at it,.. it's raining outside,.. let Floyd be the reason why,.. but at least you did put in a little effort into trying to reply,.. so thanks for the response,.. seems like all posts eventually lead to Floyd Mayweather,.. If only the Money Man knew the true power he wields...
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 03:14:20 PM
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ali:
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MisterLee.... The public wants him to fight another smaller guy Pac so I don't understand what you mean by that comment. The public does'nt care about the size difference they want to see the best fighers scrap with each other. For example Roy Jones fighting a heavyweight is something alot of fans wanted to see Tito fighting Jones before he lost to Hopkins Hagler vs Hearns I bet when those fights where being made you did'nt have a problem with it. There is a history of it happening in boxing so you need to stop bringing that up.
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 04:17:55 PM
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#1 Pacfan "P4P Legend":
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@Brownsugar and Goat, come on guys don't get all butt hurt because of the truth. I never said Floyd ruining boxing, Mayweather hasn't been what i wanted him to be? Wrong again sir, Mayweather hasn't been what he says he' been that is one of the greatest. May hasn't been what he could have been that is fight guys in the Welt before retiring(win or lose respect is still earned).
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 04:27:21 PM
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MisterLee @ ali:
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Yo yo, i meant a smaller guy (besides Pacquiao). You know, i mean if he doesn't fight pacquiao, nor a top 5 welterweight after marquez, and picks on.... Edwin Valero for example, or Israel Vasquez or Lopez, i'll be pissed. That's all I was saying. Nothing to do with Pacquiao. I really think it's either pacquiao or a top 5 welterweight. On boxingscene, now mayweather is saying "mosley lost his chance" in reference to his refusal to fight mosley right now (mosley's camp tried to negotiate with mayweather post marg fight). First it's Mosley's not a pay per view attraction, then he's got 5 losses, then now it's "too late". I like how the story changes, has he been hanging with Lance Armstrong? He's on his bicycle! :)
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 04:35:09 PM
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ali:
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MisterLee....Mayweather has never had a history of fighing smaller guys he wants the fights that bring the most money so if it ain't Pac its going to be Cotto or Mosley. Do you really think Mayeather is that scared of the guys at 147 he's been fighting his whole life and has been pretty much unbeatable so why would he be scared.
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 05:08:19 PM
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MisterLee @ ali:
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All pro fighters, if they're any good, (except nate campbell who started at 25), have been boxing all their lives. Bhop dodges dawson, sugar ray leonard dodged aaron pryor, de la hoya never fought wright nor vernon forrest, trinidad never rematched de la hoya, jones never rematched bhop.... so fighters dodge all the time. It's not always they're "scared" as far as getting a beating, but maybe they're afraid to be be made look bad, or even getting a L, or just afraid of having to be worked beyond their limits (ali frazier 1 or 3 rounds 14 or 15.... leonard hearns 1 round 14... marquez vasquez 3 round 15). I understand mayweather is an elite and great boxer, but the whole unbeatable argument doesn't suit me, as julio caesar chavez went at least 87 fights undefeated, calzaghe went 46-0, and julio caesar chavez jr. is also 39-0, edwin valero is undefeated. Andre ward hasn't been beaten since he was 14 years old, but you don't see me using that as a reason as to "why he's so great." on one hand, if it's money fights, after mayweather fights marquez and pacquiao, there are only welterweights left on the horizon who have big names and big money. Without marquz and mayweather, even pacquiao is only considering a welterweight fight. If mosley took the approach that mayweather did, dodging the threatening opponents... he didn't HAVE to fight vernon forrest and winky wright around the time when he became p4p best fighter in the world. He wanted to prove he was the best, he wanted to give unknown fighters a chance, and most of all, he wanted to challenge himself (that's how i feel at least). Let's look at mosley's resume: vargas, mayorga, de la hoya (prime twice), winky wright, vernon forrest, collazo, cotto, margarito (two fights that fell thru: zab judah and berto). Do you really think mayweather can beat every guy on that resume in their prime? So yes, mayweather is a really skilled fighter, but it's gonna be good to see what happen when his feet are at the fire.
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 05:41:49 PM
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MisterLee @ ali:
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If mosley used the same management technique as mayweather in 2003 when he was p4p best fighter in world, his reign would have lasted A LOT longer.
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 05:44:41 PM
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ali:
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MisterLee........Its not dodgin Mayweather tryied to fight Mosley in the past when he was unbeatin and knocking out everybody and it did'nt happen for what ever reason. But now he's dodgin him cause he look so good against Margacheato come on Mister Lee it does'nt make sense. Does Cotto looks more dangerous then Corrales did back when Floyed fought him no he does'nt. Also how do you know if Floyed would have fought Forrest or Wright he would have lost.
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 06:09:34 PM
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ali:
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Im watching ESPN Classic and Fransico Bojado is fighting that guy had alot of talent what ever happen to him I thought he was going to be a big time fighter.
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 06:14:26 PM
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MisterLee @ ali:
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Yo yo... maybe mosley perhaps did not give floyd a chance back then b/c mosley's selling point was his boxing and speed, and floyd was so fast, but we dunno for sure, but you have to admit, if mayweather ever steps into the ring with Mosley, it'll be a helluva lot harder fight than marquez. I dunno, i'm not qualified to discuss chico since I still haven't looked up his old tapes. But Cotto is a force of nature man, any welterweight who steps in with has to have guts man. I dun think floyd would even fight wright in 2010. He's bigger, experience, and still a live dog. I'm not saying floyd would have lost to a single one of those guys, i'm saying if he went thru that last, at least one of them, one of them or two would have hurt him, beat him, or won in the fight. Its just a matter of fact, you step in continuously with top level elite opponents, you gonna lose at some point. that is what floyd is afraid of in my opinion. Never heard of francisco bojado. what weight class, was he good? even alfonso gomez has stepped in with cotto, zab judah as fought: baldomir, cotto, (didn't get to fight mosley), clottey, mayweather... cotto has fought: margarito, mosley, quintana, gomez, will fight clottey. Clottey has fought: margarito, zab judah, baldomir, will fight cotto. Margarito has fought: williams, cotto, clottey, and mosley. Mayweather has fought: baldomir, zab judah, ricky hatton. Compare those resumes man. Big difference in opposition, skill or not. Honestly, I think mayweather can probably get thru 2 out of 4 of the top welterweights (cotto clottey mosley williams) and MAYBE 3 if he's on a row, but one of them has the antidote to beating him, and he doesn't want that, maybe that person will be pacquiao, who knows. But i don't quesiton his ring ability, he's an awesome fighter, fast, good ring iq, great chin, can adapt and adjust, one of the best stamina in the sport, great defense, good punch power, calculative and analytical, and a decent promoter. He just needs to bring those to the right fights in order to seal a legacy, and he's only got about 3 years, in my opinion, to do that. Let's hope he does it. If he beats Cotto alone and first, I'll be a floyd fan again, but i'll always try to be a critic as well, as objectivity and my love of boxing overrides my deepest biases (I'm already calling bhop and wright inactive slouches as we speak). Anyway, good chatting with you. Take care! :) You were a bit of a late comer, but have you read toledo's blueprint to beating floyd? it's a great article! he can analyze floyd's moves 100X better than me. Pc out! :)
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 06:43:23 PM
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MisterLee @ ali:
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if he went thru that LIST
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 06:44:20 PM
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MisterLee :
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To add, I remember the clottey fight, with judah, kellerman pointed out: Judah is the superior athlete, Clottey is the superior boxer. in mayweather's case, he's usually the superior boxer and the superior athlete, but we all have to see what happens when his A*#(@ gets put thru the grinder, NOT the lightweight grinder, not the jr welterweight grinder, OR the catchweight grinder, but the welterweight grinder! pc out! LIke sugar ray leonard vs. hagler, pple will be so desparate to fight pacquiao, pacman will be able to choose the size of the ring, the split percentage, the gloves (reyes obviously), the catchweight, and the size of their opponent's jock strap. It's gonna be exciting times... yep... :)
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 08:14:15 PM
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MisterLee:
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BUT! (_l_) ! For mayweather to beat or slow down clottey or cotto, he'll have to take them to the body, and his brittle hands can't take that, so he'll have to satisfy the judges with points and/or headhunting, so that presents a conundrum! If Margarito with loaded gloves couldn't hurt Clottey, how could Mayweather? Just a thought! :)
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 08:23:14 PM
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ali:
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MisterLee ....That's what makes Mayweather better than everybody else is that he can adjust to what ever happens in the ring.. You will not lay off of this size thing he fights one smaller guy and people go crazy calm down the guys at 147 is going to get there chance. Also did you here about Mayweather hit list he gave to golden boy Cotto Pac & Mosley they say it 5 fighter but I only got the name of those three.
Tuesday Jun 2, 2009 09:13:41 PM
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MisterLee:
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Sounds cool. But like every crime (*ahem), there are multiple and ulterior motives. I know it, mayweather is a smart man, almost too smart, but he does it to further business and his boxing career, and not necessarily to please the fans or earn glory. So why marquez? First, he's the 2nd p4p fighter in the world and a rival of pacquiao. If he beats this person, even a guy 2-3 weight classes below him, then he feels he'll be elevated to #2 p4p immediately, thus making him a matchup for pacquiao or anyone immediately and a cash cow (all this from beating one foe!). Second, he's rusty, he's been out of the ring for 1 year, so he needs a tune-up fight, if he fights a welterweight with no name, it'll be a non-money maker, and he won't earn p4p status. Also, let's be real, a welterweight like alfonso gomez will present more problems for mayweather than a smaller elite fighter, why? Size and strength... those things make a big difference. HBO only wants "real fights" and the way fighters work around it is try to make tune-up fights look like real fights.... and tho marquez mayweather is a stretch, it is the former p4p fighter vs. the current #2 p4p fighter, and their weights COULD almost match at a reasonable catchweight. So May gets an instant money fight and PPV fight off of a tune up fight and p4p status and a setup for pacquiao just by beating a 6 years older, slower, smaller former featherweight current lightweight. It's business man, smart business, but it's not gonna be competitive. Once HBO's cash cow 24/7 kicks in pple will believe the drama and really start to believe that this will really be a competitive fight. Mayweather wins, and some fans will claim he is now on the top of the sport and best p4p fighter. That's how i see it playing out in my head. It's a con tho. If mayweather steps into the ring with Cotto, I will shut my mouth. Until then, let the con begin, july 18th! buy tickets! its gonna be a great fight!
Wednesday Jun 3, 2009 11:53:13 AM
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MisterLee:
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And, mayweather will use Marquez as a braggin right after this fight, years from now ("I beat the best, i beat marquez..."). Realistically, marquez is probably the 2nd or 3rd p4p fighter floyd has faced in his 39 fight career, and not even in his weight class. Yes, floyd is accomplished in lightweight and jr. welterweight, but at welterweight, he has accomplished squat in my opinion. @ ali: " That's what makes Mayweather better than everybody else is that he can adjust to what ever happens in the ring.. " yes yes, but like anyone else, you have to judge their performances not in a vacuum, but in action, agst top tier competition. Ie- El Perro has looked great agst lower tier opponents, put him in the ring iwth a new and improved and bigger cintron, and he got outboxed. Floyd can look great knocking out a jr. welter in hatton... but what if he fought the old margarito, a guy that throws 100 + punches a round, who has a chin of granite platinum, who doesn't stop moving forward? As mosley shown, the only way to slow him down is to go to the body which floyd can't physically do... we've seen castillo take him to the body, and we know floyd has problems with pressure fights b/c his lateral movement nor volume of jabs are not great, so margarito would have been the ultimate test for him, margarito, clottey, and williams would probably present the biggest challenge for floyd. Floyd also needs to know there's no shame in losing if it was a great fight, I think penalosa's loss to lopez was probably one of the greatest displays of courage i seen from any fighter, and i give him more respect for that loss, than any of floyd's baldomir, hatton, and de la hoya fights combined. That's just me man. As you can see from up there, i'm not a floyd hater, but i am a critic, and even harsh at times, but he's gonna earn the boxing world's respect, not just make outrageous claims, say he's being judged by his own standards, and then avoid the best (mosley at welterweight). See ya! :)
Wednesday Jun 3, 2009 12:01:24 PM
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Smiley C:
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MisterLee, I told you to write a Bible fo' sure!
Wednesday Jun 3, 2009 01:02:12 PM
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The Lone Star State Beckons Boxing Back
9/3/10, Dallas, Texas --- "WELCOME TO TEXAS" --- Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones (ctr) welcomes superstar Manny Pacquiao (L) and three-time world champion Antonio Margarito (R) to Cowboy Stadium at the press conference Friday for their upcoming mega fight on November 13 at Cowboys Stadium in Arlington,Texas. Pacquiao vs Margarito is promoted by Top Rank in association with MP Promotions and Cowboys Stadium. This telecast will be available live on HBO Pay Per View.
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