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ward


Sunday May 17, 2009

Ward showed lots to like against Miranda. But he and his Olympic brethren haven't lit it up as professionals, have they?

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Woes As Proes--The 2004 US Olympic Squad Disappoints

By George Kimball


NEW YORK – Floyd Patterson won an Olympic gold medal at Helsinki in 1952. Four years later he knocked out Archie Moore to succeed Rocky Marciano as heavyweight champion.

Muhammad Ali, then Cassius Clay, won a gold in Rome in 1960. Four years later he stopped Sonny Liston to win the heavyweight title.

Joe Frazier, a gold medalist in Tokyo in ’64.  By 1968 he had was recognized (by New York and five other states) as the heavyweight champion.

George Foreman won his gold medal in Mexico City in 1968. Less than five years later he knocked down Frazier six times to become the heavyweight champion of the world.

Olympic triumphs haven’t always translated into success in the professional ranks, but historically it has been a fairly reliable harbinger of things to come. And as the aforementioned accomplishments would suggest, a five-year gestation period would appear to be an entirely reasonable expectation. 

We’re now coming up on the fifth anniversary of the 2004 Athens Games. That star-crossed Olympic crop has yet to produce a single world champion, and you’d have to say that none of them are even close to being ready to fight for a title. 

Andre Ward, the lone US gold medalist in Greece five years back, won the most significant bout of his 18-fight pro career on Saturday, May 16 with his shellacking of Edison Miranda before a hometown crowd in Oakland. Miranda is, or was, a legitimate top-ten contender (though he hardly looked it on this night), but it should be borne in mind that while he was competitive in his fights against Kelly Pavlik and his two with Arthur Abraham, he lost all three of them. Yes, it was a big win for Ward, but not one that necessarily makes him a threat to Carl Froch or Mikkel Kessler or even Lucien Bute.

Americans haven’t won more than a single boxing gold in any Olympics since 1984, but US teams for most of the intervening 35 years have evinced a fairly consistent pattern of success within the five-year period.

The five golds captured by Sugar Ray Leonard, Howard Davis, Leon and Michael Spinks, and Leo Randolph in Montreal in 1976 remains a high-water mark for the United States. Within five years Leonard, both Spinks brothers, and Big John Tate had all claimed world titles at the professional level.

The 1984 team (the US boycotted the 1980 Moscow Games) produced an even larger haul of gold medals, but the accomplishment was somewhat diminished by the absence of any Cuban, Russian, or Eastern European boxers in Los Angeles. Five years after the conclusion of that Olympiad, Evander Holyfield, Virgil Hill, Frank Tate, Mark Breland, Pernell Whitaker, and Meldrick Taylor had won world championships.

Seoul in 1988 resulted in just won US gold, but five years later Riddick Bowe, Ray Mercer, Roy Jones Jr., Kennedy McKinney, and Michael Carbajal had all won titles.

Oscar De La Hoya won the lone US gold in Barcelona in 1992, but within the 5-year window Oscar had been joined by Tim Austin, Rafael Marquez, and Montell Griffin as world champs. (Although it should probably be noted that the latter was on his knees when he won his title, via DQ, against Jones; that ’92 crop also included a couple of late bloomers, Chris Byrd and Vernon Forrest, both of whom won titles, but well outside the five-year mark.) 

The last Olympics contested on American soil, Atlanta in 1996, saw only one US winner, but seven boxers from that team eventually won titles. Four of them – Reid, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Fernando Vargas, and Eric Morel – came within five years.  (Antonio Tarver, David Diaz, and Zahir Raheem took longer.)

The collection we sent to Sydney in 2000 came home without a single gold, but five years later Jermain Taylor, Brian Viloria, and Jeff Lacy had all won titles. (Another boxer from that US team, Rocky Juarez, has fought five times for world titles and is at this point 0-4-1; Rocky is about to get another crack at it in his rematch against Chris John next month.)

How did things go so badly off the rails for the 2004 team, then? 

For one thing, they were not as a group that promising to begin with, although one certainly would have expected more from Ward and bronze medalist Andre Dirrell at this stage. But since Athens was the last Olympics I covered before retiring from the daily newspaper dodge I’ve probably followed the progress, or lack of it, by the members of that team with more than usual interest.

Jason Estrada, the super-heavyweight representative, has been almost as disappointing as a pro as he was in Athens, where his stock tumbled almost overnight.  Despite fattening his record on some faded name heavyweights, Estrada has lost to Travis Walker and ’04 gold medalist Alexander Povetkin (whom he never faced in Athens), and has managed to stop just three opponents in 18 pro fights.

Heavyweight Devin Vargas rolled up 16 wins in five years and then, against the first remotely threatening opponent he had faced, was KO’d by Kevin Johnson in Atlantic City last weekend.

Vicente Escobedo lost to Daniel Jimenez, a result that took on added significance when Jimenez lost back-to-back fights last year. Escobedo’s handlers aren’t taking many chances: Thursday night in Sacramento he’s supposed to fight 41-year old Kevin Kelly.

Rock Allen has fought 15 times in five years against undistinguished opposition and has yet to even be scheduled for a 10-rounder. Dirrell (18-0) has been moved almost as cautiously, and even his biggest wins – Anthony Hanshaw and Curtis Stevens – don’t exactly pronounce him ready to play in the big leagues. 

Another member of the US Class of ‘04,  Freddie Roach-trained Vanes Matriroysian, faces a stern test in Andrey Tsurkan on June 27. Michael Moorer will work that fight, since Freddie will be in London with Amir Khan. Martirosyan is 24-0, but the best you can say about his victims so far is that he's fared better with John Duddy victims than Duddy has: He beat Billy Lyell, and KO'd Charlie Howe, who had gone the distance with the Irishman.

Two other members of the ’04 Athens crop remained amateurs. Last summer in Beijing, Rau’shee Warren was eliminated in the first round of his second straight Olympics. Ron Siler’s whereabouts these days appear to be principally of interest only to his parole officer.

The jury is still out on Andre Ward. Dan Goossen hasn’t taken many chances in moving him, but you’d have to say that he’s passed the limited examinations that have been put before him in the form of Jerson Ravelo, Henry Buchanan, and now, Miranda. He needs to be fighting more often, but even with his five-year grace period about to expire, he’s still only 25. Froch is 31, Kessler 30, and Bute 29.  Who’s to say time won’t  run out on them before it runs out on him?

 

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Peter Egley:  Devin Vargas is certainly tough, but physically, well, a heavyweight that does not seem to get much respect even though he was exciting and successful, Tommy Morrison, was not as huge as people like Lennox Lewis or Razor Ruddock, but he had what Vargas lacked, a good muscular build to be able to bang with the big boys. Vargas was brave but took a beating. "Vanes Matriroysian, faces a stern test in Andrey Tsurkan on June 27. Michael Moorer" working his corner sounds good. I would like to see that match.
Monday May 18, 2009 08:09:37 AM
Anony:  Ward vs. Hopkins = MMA (with all that hugging and grabbing).
Monday May 18, 2009 08:42:43 AM
rudy:  So what was the point of this article? Sounds like the negative stuff that people where talking about BEFORE the fight. Considering the 168 landscape, he easily whoops Froch, the tougher foes would be Bute and Kessler who seem to be #1 and #2 at SMW. Ward is legit, he put on a great display Saturday night, if you didnt see that, then your not a fan of the sweet science.
Monday May 18, 2009 09:53:22 AM
Big Daddy Hates Olympic Boxing:  Olympic Boxing is a hinderance to Pro Boxing, not an asset. It is the WORST form of Boxing. It turns Boxing into little more than Fencing with gloves instead of swords. Ring Generalship and Power Punching count for nothing. Amateur Boxers have to land one clear punch at a time to win. It's brutal to watch. It forces an Amateur Boxer to basically relearn the sport if he wants to be a Pro Boxer. This all came about thanks to the Roy Jones Jr. Fiasco in Seoul. RJJ got robbed by crooked officials, and the new scoring system was an overreaction to that.
Monday May 18, 2009 10:11:32 AM
Radam G, a humble PacManite correcting himself like always:  Wow! I'm spot on with rudy. I found myself lost in the story, as if it was a maze. Froch should be the easily belt holder for SOG to destroy. I see SOG being a four-division belt winner at the end of his career. I once said that he'd be the first Olympic Games' gold medal winner to go down in weight and win a professional division, I did some research, and find that I was off. Golden Boy Dela Hoya beat him to the draw. Oscar won the gold at 132lbs and then turned pro and won the WBO 130lb title belt. Holla!
Monday May 18, 2009 11:59:31 AM
rudy:  As for stepping up in competition, look at the fighter's ages -- Ward 25, Vanes 23, Dirrell 26 -- IMO climbing the ladder at the right pace and time. Escobedo, Estrada, and Vargas where never going to be anything but middle of the road fighters.
Monday May 18, 2009 12:17:33 PM
El Matador:  kessler will destroy ward. I rather see bute vs kessler. That will be a fight. dueces!!
Monday May 18, 2009 01:22:12 PM
where are your factcheckers?:  The US won three gold medals in 1988, not one. Ray Mercer, Andrew Maynard, and Kennedy McKinney all won golds.
Monday May 18, 2009 01:34:35 PM
bernard:  George will be aware that Ireland beat Team USA 9-3 and 8-2 in Kildare and Dublin recently. The USA team contained all their top ranked boxers.
Monday May 18, 2009 01:39:53 PM
brownsugar:  You really can't blame the pacing of ward's career,.. especially with nagging knee and thumb injuries,.. quarterbacks can get a shot in the leg right on the field,..what would you say if you saw a figher get a novacaine shot in his knee between rounds (FOUL).. boxers especially movers like Ward place more stress on their knee's than a basketball player, .. so a carefull recovery process is necessary for a successful and lenthy career,. as far as the 2004 Olympians are concerned,.. they get worse treatment in this article than the 1974 Vets returning home from Vietnam,.. at least there are a couple of bright spots those game.
Monday May 18, 2009 04:18:34 PM
MisterLee:  I dunno, the article says he needs to fight more, but he fought 7 times in 07 and 08, and once in 07 2-3 months after knee surgery. Also fought twice in 5 months of 2009, certainly more active in quantity than bhop, mosley, and pacquiao. I think andre ward's waiting period is over, i think his development period is over and he's ready to take on all comers, but just my opinion. I wouldn't mind seeing him tussle with Jermain taylor if he doesn't get Froch, but it could bit "Lights out" toney for taylor if ward wins, as far as a career ender. but i got faith in ward, SOG baby! 2009!
Monday May 18, 2009 07:13:04 PM
MisterLee:  Yo Brownsugar! That's tru, however, the funny thing was ward got hurt from basketball, not from training, boxing nor cross training. I would see it as a traumatic injury (sudden and painful) vs. an overuse injury. I once hurt myself before a tournament. I was ballin' with some friends and I happened to play with a guy unfortunately who was unathletic, a FOB (some asians can play, but FOBS can't ball! ever seen a CBA game? Don't!), and wearing JEANS on the court. I was guarding my man and my own teammate, jeans fellow, DIDN'T move out of my way and i stepped on his foot and heard three cracks on the way down. My right ankle was black and blue for 6-7 months before accupuncture cured it. But i got love for wushu. Radam, ever heard of Willy Wang or Arvin Ting, both Wushu World Champions from Philipines respectively. Pc out! Andre Ward rules! Injuries from sports other than your main one sucks! :)
Monday May 18, 2009 08:23:43 PM
brownsugar:  Mister Lee,.. Yep,..I'm aware of how Ward hurt his knee,.. just using an analogy about aggravating a damaged joint,.. But that's a very Humorous story ,.. I can play a tiny bit of B-Ball,.. but if I try to guard someone too close on defense,.. my legs would snap-off at the knees,.. . that ankle injury sounds brutal,.. it's amazing how an injury like that can limit a person.. they prolly would have shot you like a broke leg horse if it took longer to heal,....LOL... I still don't know why Kessler get all the hype,.. he lost a fight he was winning against Calzaghe,.. and Calzaghe couldn't stop a shot semi-retired Jones,.. neither could Kessler finish off a raw, face fighting, Librado Andrade( the 2005 sparring partner version) after landing almost 350 punches to the head( and no swelling, no cuts or mental issues on Librado)... Kessler is a good boxer,..but has done far too little to warrant the Ivory tower he's kept in.,.. at any rate there will be plenty of action on TSS as opposing opinions collide about the SMW division...
Monday May 18, 2009 10:17:43 PM
MisterLee:  I dunno why pple are so obsessed with pple's KO percentage. Ward is no paulie malinaggi, but he ain't mike tyson prime either. And he ain't some slick boxer, he can be, but roughed up Miranda in his own game, round 8! He's a rough fighter, he like Collazo with more speed skill and power. Yeah man, how do pple over 30 play ball? I know kids who are 21 who roll their ankles constantly and play on it. how do you heal it if you play on it? I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who's 28, I ain't old, but i ain't too young that i didn't have a few injuries. They catch up on you, especially from basketball. Anyway, back to the scene crispy and clean, if KO was all you need, Valero, pavlik, phillip ndou, ricardo torres, edison miranda pre-abraham (sounds biblical! I guess SOG gave him a bible lesson! :), juanma lopez would be instant superstars. Has to do with skills persona image and a good resume. Besides, mind you, Andre ward 's record was 10-0, 5 KO's, then a short time later it became 15-0, 10 KO's, so where did those 5 KO's came from? 5 in a row. 5 of his first 10 fights went the distance, his last 4 fights, 2 of them have been KO's, it don't look so bad if you look at it from that angle. and ward didn't punk out with a squeaky victory, he brought the fight to miranda, and the kitchen sink! :) pc out! Ward 09, prior pryor 1982! I wish it was 1984, i bet i could throw this football over that mountain!
Monday May 18, 2009 10:38:11 PM
MisterLee:  Anybody anticipating a showdown with Paul Williams in 2010 or 2011?
Monday May 18, 2009 10:39:45 PM
MisterLee @ Peter Egley:  Hey man! i'm gonna give Women's Boxing a try. Got any starters? A female gatti-ward might spawn my interest. Thanks! Gina Torino rules!
Monday May 18, 2009 10:59:50 PM
Radam G, a humble PacManite @ MisterLee:  No! Long, tall Paul is most like a super sally. He is media hype. SOG would tear him apart. Forget about a cat throwing umpteen punches. That sucka misses too much and nobody has made him paid but Margahero late in their match. Trust me. It is just a matter of time before the Punisher Paul Williams's ride will be over. As long as he fights boxers who stand in front of him and don't counter, he will be fine. SOG is one side to side, moving, groving, countering mutha fu__ -- "SHUT YA' MOUTH!" -- I'm just talking about SOG! Holla!
Tuesday May 19, 2009 11:32:24 AM
MisterLee:  hahaa... nice... super sally? hahah
Tuesday May 19, 2009 11:37:22 AM
Boxer:  A good test for andre ward will be Dirrell. They got the same style but dirrell runs more. I like ward in that fight if its ever made.
Tuesday May 19, 2009 11:48:01 AM
MisterLee:  I dunno, I see them both as some up and comers. I think they'd both profit from the fight in the future when they built up their resume and can bring a super fight like oscar vs. tito. Even dirrell said in an interview he repsects ward alot as a person and feels they'll meet someday in the future down the road. good point tho, dirrell dawson and ward might make some pretty matcups. we'll see, i still think dirrell is flawed as a fighter tho, we'll see what happens.
Tuesday May 19, 2009 12:11:29 PM

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