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froch


Saturday Apr 25, 2009

Froch was an underdog coming in, even in the eyes of his hometown bookies. But his relentlessness solved Taylor, who must now take stock of his career and future path.

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Carl Froch Rallies In Round Twelve, KOs Jermain Taylor

By George Kimball

MASHANTUCKET, Conn. --- By the time Carl Froch returned to his corner at the conclusion of the penultimate round, trainer Robert McCracken had hastily done his sums, and calculated that there was a good chance his man would need a knockout to retain his championship.  And as it turned out he was right.

“You saw it,” said Froch. “I got it.”

Trailing by four points on each of two cards going into the final three minutes, Froch staged a furious last-ditch rally, scoring a knockdown by pummelling Jermain Taylor to the floor before battering his defenseless foe into submission. By the time referee Mike Ortega finally rescued Taylor, just 14 seconds remained in the fight.

Froch, a betting underdog even at the bookie shops in his native Nottingham, retained his WBC super-middleweight title with the dramatic, come-from-behind victory at Foxwoods’ MGM Theatre, and will return from his successful invasion of America as he arrived – an undefeated champion, albeit one with one more significant notch on his gun, and with the respect he had arrived on these shores in search of.

He had never expected that it would come easily, and it didn’t.  Surprised by Taylor’s counterpunching ability, he had dug himself into a big early hole against the former undisputed 160-pound king. Taylor got Froch’s attention early in the first round when he sent him spinning with a right-hand lead, and gotten the judges’ in the third, when he hurt him with a straight right, landed another, and then speared him with a laser-like left that caught the Englishman squarely on the chin and sent him sprawling.

Although Taylor appeared in complete command at this stage, it was hard to forget that he had similarly dominated Kelly Pavlik in the early going of their first fight. 

After five rounds Froch trailed by six points on the scorecard of Mexican judge Omar Mintun, and by four on that of Mintun’s Japanese counterpart, Nobuaki Uratani. (Canadian Jack Woodruff at this stage had it unaccountably even.)

“He caught me with two rights I didn’t see coming,” said Froch of the knockdown. “I was all right. That’s boxing. I just took the count and tried to get my composure back.”

It was an uphill battle over the second half of the fight, but Froch was able to increasingly exert himself. The jab Taylor had used to control the early going had slowed perceptibly, and the Englishman, whose awkward style is hardly pretty but nonetheless relentless, began to land with more frequency. Taylor’s face remained almost serenely confident, but he knew he was in a fight.

Froch dominated the first two and a half minutes of the eighth before Taylor rallied in the stanza’s closing seconds. His revival didn’t seem sufficient to have pulled out the round, but both Mintun and Uratani gave it to him anyway in what might have been a major bone of contention had the issue gone to the scorecards.

In the ninth Froch stunned Taylor with a right, and as the battle moved into the championship rounds, the champion was the aggressor. Taylor, of course, has evinced stamina problems in the past, and Froch and his small band of supporters at ringside seemed to sense that the gap was inexorably narrowing.

Taylor looked to have all he could to just to get through the eleventh, but McCracken’s calculations proved to be correct. Woodburn had Froch up 106-102 going into the final round, but the other two judges had Taylor leading by the same score. 

Froch flung himself almost headlong at Taylor, who could offer scant resistance. Trapped in a neutral corner Taylor took a series of right hands to his unprotected head before crumpling to the floor, and for several seconds it didn’t appear that he would be capable of beating Ortega’s count. 

In the end he struggled to his feet, and even made a brief but vain attempt to ward off Froch’s frenzied attack, and by the time the end came Taylor’s hands had fallen to his side and he was utterly unprotected while Froch clubbed away at his sagging form. Ortega might even have stopped it earlier, but his decision to rescue Taylor when he did was both just and merciful.

Some Taylor partisans, aware that had Jermain been allowed to survive the round the title might have been his even had he gone down again, might've wished the ref let it go, but Ortega said “my only concern is for the safety of the fighter. I don’t consider the time. Whether it was 14 seconds or one second makes no difference. He was defenseless.”

Froch, once he got a chance to review the Showtime tape of the telecast, seemed surprised that Taylor had remained erect as long as he did. 

“He was badly hurt,” said the champion. “He wasn’t even looking at me.”

The Sweet Science card, incidentally, had Taylor up 105-103 going into the final round. Since Froch had already erased that margin before the end came, he had done enough to retain his title in our view even in the absence of the TKO.

Following the abdication of Joe Calzaghe, Froch had won the vacant title in December by outpointing Haitian-born Jean Pascal, leaving many doubters about his credentials, even among his countrymen. But in scoring his 25th win (and his 20th knockout), against a bona fide elite fighter of Taylor’s stature, he not only announced that he belongs, but potentially places himself in an enviable position for future big fights in the talent-laden 168-pound division.

Taylor’s performance, gallant while it lasted, once again raises questions about his future. Taylor is now 28-3-1, but he is 3-3-1 since his back-to-back wins over Bernard Hopkins almost three and a half years ago, and hasn’t stopped a single opponent since February of 2005.

It was another disappointing evening for Taylor’s promoter Lou DiBella, who had seen one of his charges come within a point of taking a title in St. Louis a night earlier and his marquee fighter come within 14 seconds on Saturday.

“But it was a great fight,” conceded DiBella. “Froch isn’t pretty. He’s ungainly and nowhere near as talented as Jermain, but he’s strong as an ox and he just keeps coming.”

Both victor and vanquished were willing to entertain talk of a rematch, but don’t expect that to happen anytime soon. On the other hand, having made a successful conquest of a new country, Froch will return to his own with newfound respect. The shadow cast by Joe Calzaghe will still be there, but it won’t be quite as long.

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In the co-feature of the Showtime telecast, Oklahoma super-middleweight Allan Green demolished Carlos De Leon Jr., pounding the Puerto Rican to the canvas four times en route to a second-round TKO, setting up a likely challenge to IBF champion Lucien Bute at  Montreal’s Bell Centre on the July 10-11 weekend.

Green, who spent much of last year on the sidelines following an administrative suspension, was facing his first ‘live’ opponent in a couple of years – and this one didn’t last long.

Early in the second he upended De Leon with a picture-perfect left hook, and when his foe arose, he clubbed him back to the canvas with two right hands. The third knockdown came seconds later, once again from a right, and although referee Joe Lupino allowed it to continue, Green pounded De Leon with two more overhand rights, bringing the referee’s intervention at 1:54. 

DeLeon complained that the last knockdown had come when he had been punched in the back of the head, which at that point hardly seemed material.

“He looked,” said Green as he watched the replay, “like he got hit with the Hammer of Thor.”

“I knew he couldn’t hang in there with me,” said Green, now 28-1. “He’d been down six times prior to this fight. My mission tonight was to make a statement.”
 
 

Fighting for the first time since last November’s lopsided loss to Ricky Hatton, former IBF 140-pound champion Paulie Malignaggi  (26-2) won a unanimous decision over Chris Fernandez (16-7-1) of Salt Lake City in an off-TV eight-rounder. Malignaggi took the biggest shot of the night when Fernandez nearly put him down with a good left hand at the end of the sixth, but otherwise dominated. Don Trella, Glenn Feldman, and George Smith all scored it 79-73.

Arkansas veteran Dominick Guinn (31-6) shocked previously unbeaten Louisianan Johnnie White, knocking him down twice in the first round on the way to a TKO at 2:01 of the first. Guinn, who has now won three in a row after back-to-back losses to Eddie Chambers and Robert Hawkins, crushed White with a right hand to send him down the first time, and when the Louisianan got up on shaky legs, quickly put him down again, this time with a left. Although Eddie Claudio briefly allowed action to resume, he immediately halted it when Guinn connected with his next solid punch.  White, who has fought primarily on the Louisiana Fairgrounds circuit, dropped to 21-1.

Framingham (Mass.) junior welter Danny O’Connor made it six for six in his nascent pro career with a unanimous decision over Missouri journeyman Travis Hartman (9-12-1). O’Connor floored Hartman twice, late in the second and again with 30 seconds left in the bout. Trella, Feldman, and Smith all returned 40-34 scorecards.

Jonathan Nelson (9-0), the nephew of Taylor trainer Ozell Nelson, won a unanimous decision over Eddie Caminero (5-1) of Lawrence, Mass. in a battle of previously unbeaten super middles. Although Nelson landed the heavier leather and rocked Caminero severtal times, both acquitted themselves well. Trella and Steve Weisfeld both scored it 58-56; Julie Lederman 59-66.

Brooklyn (NY) junior welter Sadam Ali (3-0) knocked down Schenectady’s Bryan Abraham (1-1-1) in the third rounder of their 4-rounder on the way to a unanimous decision.  40-35 X 3 (Woodburn, Mintun, Uratani)

#    #    #

MGM GRAND ARENA

FOXWOODS CASINO

MASHANTUCKET, Conn.

APRIL 25, 2009

SUPER MIDDLEWEIGHTS: Carl Froch, 167, Nottingham, England TKO’d Jermain Taylor, 166, Little Rock, Ark.  (12) (Retains WBC title)

Allan Green, 168, Tulsa, Okla. TKO’d Carlos De Leon Jr., 168, Trujillo Alto, Puerto Rico (2) 

Jonathan Nelson, 163, Little Rock, Ark. dec. Eddie Caminero, 162, Lowell, Mass. (8)

HEAVYWEIGHTS: Dominick Guinn, 229, Hot Springs, Ark. TKO’d Johnnie White, 227, St. Martinsville, La. (1)

WELTERWEIGHTS: Paulie Malignaggi, 141, Brooklyn, NY dec. Chris Fernandez, 142, Salt Lake City, Utah (8)

JUNIOR WELTERWEIGHTS: Danny O’Connor, 140, Framingham, Ma. Dec. Travis Hartman, 140, St. Joseph, Mo. (4)

Sadam Ali, 142. Brooklyn, NY dec. Bryan Abraham, 140, Schenectady, NY (4)

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Fistic Fury:  I'm smoking guys, side with me if you want $£$£. I can't believe last time I called one wrong was De La Hoya vs Pacman, i've got the hot hand and i'm enjoying it while it lasts especially financially...
Saturday Apr 25, 2009 10:48:46 PM
Radam G aka Humble PRG:  JT is terrible. ENOUGH said!
Saturday Apr 25, 2009 10:57:40 PM
Fe'ROZ :  How quickly the worm turns in this game. JT, the once MW Champ, is now a fighter who may best be remembered, not by the way he won his title, but from the images of him looking up listlessly, crumbled on the canvas. When he loses, he loses. Maybe be it's his conditioning and nutrition but it's his heart and confidence that we may never see again. The turning point was not taking out Pavlik. He just cannot figure out how to finish what he starts. Get his man in trouble and he either gasses out or hesitates; either way, he fails to do what is necessary. All his fights start the same. He has the punches and speed but has never learned to harness the package. He fights tight....moving his hands and rolling his shoulders...bu doing so in a way that takes, not gives energy. If there was ever a 'tight-loose' fighter, it would be JT. His late fight collapses aare as tragic as they are predictible at this point. his opponents expect it. He seems to as well. His confidence is shot....and I'm afraid so is JT. GiveFroch his props. He fought the fight he expected and did everything in the key rounds to win (with JT complying of course). He better learn to keep his left up, however, if he expects to get his 26th win against any of the elite fighters at 168. The next time he gets rocked with a strong right hook by a fighter who knows how to close....he'll have no one to blame but himself
Saturday Apr 25, 2009 11:01:14 PM
andy from newcastle:  The rest of you all gone to bed then or what? Poor Jermaine. I'm not and never have been a big fan of JT, but you can't help but feel sorry for him. His mother shouldn't have turned that gypsy woman away from their house when he was a baby, cos that curse is there for life. Froch showed more stage fright than skill in the first six rounds and came to the ring driazabone. He seems to have no boxing skills at all - a surprise to me since I've only watched highlight reels on youtube. I'd be happy if he stayed there, as it was painful and frustrating to watch. It was a good stoppage, but one brought about by JT's stamina issues rather than Froch imposing his will. It reminded me of the 12th round of Bute v Andrade, without the contoversy. I can't see this version of Froch beating any of the top super middles, including the revitalised Allan Green. Calzaghe, Bute and Kessler would take him apart. Poor JT, even I was shouting him on in the last 2 rounds. Toonoy
Saturday Apr 25, 2009 11:02:04 PM
Nate:  Well it was a great fight. I predicted that it would be close with Taylor winning by decision. He played it as has been his pattern lately. Coming out strong, working the jab, but not following up enough. Always moving a step to the left, not following to the right. Froch counterpunches well with power, and throws bombs while taking the hits well. But Jermaine doesn't have the heart, his legs tire and his stamina wanes. He doesn't twist the knife and put opponents away when they are down. Much credit to Froch's heart, and strong will with a little luck. Jermaine could have followed a hold pattern or running away for the final two minutes but he just gets weak and can't last 12 rounds. That's his problem. I predict that Froch can continue to win some for now BECAUSE Taylor and Calzaghe where the only ones that can outspeed him. Calzaghe especially could run circles around him.
Saturday Apr 25, 2009 11:02:05 PM
DaveB:  It was devaju all over again. Froch stinks and Taylor stinks bigger. It is like SchoolofHardKnocks says, Taylor is just a glorified amateur. Taylor cannot finish a guy off, doesn't hold when he is hurt, and the momentum of his fights change around the sixth round because he lets guys hang in there and come back. Froch gets hit too much, keeps his guard low, and is not technically sound. When Taylor had him hurt, he hardly threw any punches. Taylor gets gassed too easily. I knew when he let him off the hook and Taylor started backing up he was in trouble. There was a subtle change in momentum in the sixth round. Taylor said he would teach Froch how to lose but it is Taylor who knows how to lose. Froch needs to leave Calzaghe alone. Calzaghe is retired for one thing and Calzaghe would have easy pickings againt Froch. The 168 division is exciting because all the fighters are pretty evenly matched but they are all B+ fighters. Jermaine Taylor needs to remain in the audience with Cintron.
Saturday Apr 25, 2009 11:04:31 PM
Fe'ROZ :  Andy, he can beat Bute. Bute needs to fight 12 rounds....something froch has no problem doing. Anyone else, however, willing to throw punches and out-work Froch will most likely beat him. He is too awkward and too cocky (the best reason to explain his low loft hand) to be at the top for long. But props tonight.
Saturday Apr 25, 2009 11:06:31 PM
andy from newcastle GLAD TO SEE YOU ARE STILL UP:  And was Jack Woodruff allowed to bring his labrador sight dog to ringside with him, I wonder. Toonoy
Saturday Apr 25, 2009 11:06:48 PM
Fe'ROZ :  B-Hop should come back and get another title from Froch. Fight him in England, expose him, and then call out Calzaghe in his own back yard. Froch would comply....and lose. It would get a great gate.....and would probably entice Slappy Joe to return to meet B-Hop.
Saturday Apr 25, 2009 11:16:06 PM
the Roast:  Wow . What a great night of boxing. What a crushing loss for Jermain Taylor. What a huge win for Carl Froch. I've never been a big fan of JT but I found myself rooting for him as this fight began. Taylor will have a hard time looking at himself in the mirror for the next few days at least. Why did'nt he go all out for the KO after dropping Froch late in the third round? Why did'nt JT jump on Froch to start the 9th after hurting him at the end of the 8th? These are questions that will burn in Taylors mind for the rest of his life. Give credit to Carl Froch. In the second half of the fight he knew he was behind on the cards and he responded. He Pushed the fight to Taylor and won rounds. As the 12th round started the fight was there for the taking for both men. Froch threw caution to the wind and went all out for the win. No question the ref stopped the fight at the right time. Taylor showed true class afterward in not questioning the ref's stoppage. True class shown after by Froch giving respect to Jermain Taylor. We may have seen the last of JT at the highest level. I don't know how he can come back from that. Good luck to Carl Froch going forward in his career. Respect to both warriors.
Saturday Apr 25, 2009 11:17:15 PM
Sick:  Great job staying on top of Jermain by Froch. He was the stronger guy period. Jermain hasnt been the same since Kelly Pavlik laid him out. He doesn't have a chin any more.
Saturday Apr 25, 2009 11:17:59 PM
DaveB:  the Roast, I think Taylor was afraid he would punch himself out. If i remember correctly, that is what he did in the Pavlik fight. He got so excited and was so ineffective with so many punches after knocking Kelly down that Pavlik survived and Taylor was dead tired. So this time he takes the opposite approach and it still winds up having the same effect. You would think at this level a fighter would know how to take another fighter out. Some guys have that down to an art. I think Green would have a good chance against Froch and I'm not a Green fan. Although I don't think that fight would happen for obvious reasons, risk/reward.
Saturday Apr 25, 2009 11:30:35 PM
SchoolOfHardKnocks:  DaveB..Fe'Roz, ur analogies and descriptions are right on the money. Fe'Roz, If you look at 90% of Taylors wins, they were against guys he's much bigger than. (Kassim Ouma, Cory Spinks, Daniel Edouard, Raul Marquez, Winky Wright, etc) and they still made Taylor back up. They mostly were 154 pounders or smaller. Soon as he stepped up to someone his size he couldn't do to much with them other then Hopkins. And those were very close fights. DaveB, I also agree that most of these guys are really B+ fighters. U need to be a match maker..lol That might be a good fight Cintron vs Taylor.
Saturday Apr 25, 2009 11:30:42 PM
DaveB:  SchoolOfHardKnocks, There you go again. You should be a comedian. You always make me laugh. LOL!!!!
Saturday Apr 25, 2009 11:35:35 PM
Fe'ROZ :  SOHK, glad to hear from you. What has been your perspective of JT's style of moving his arms and rolling his shoulders ...in many cases without throwing straight punches and/or any at all. He seems to exhaust himself before he gets started. Almost as if his style, intended to keep him loose and his opponent at bay, keeps him 'tight'. Worse yet....and it's almost tragic given his speed....the punches that he does throw beteen these feints and rolls....are impaired by all the wasted motion. If ever there was a fighter that seemed to be saying so much with his body language and doing so relatively little with his body, it's JT.
Saturday Apr 25, 2009 11:46:13 PM
Fe'ROZ :  DaveB, Cintron would quit before JT gassed out....but it would be close. a contest of who looks to his corner first.
Saturday Apr 25, 2009 11:49:08 PM
the Roast:  You are probably right DaveB. JT seemed to be holding back at the key moments but he will kick himself later. Sometimes you gotta just go for it and damn the torpedos. In my opinion, there is nothing worse than to not have gone for it.
Saturday Apr 25, 2009 11:59:42 PM
SchoolOfHardKnocks:  Fe'ROZ, my thoughts on JT's defense..lol Well he has been doing too much tv watching guys rolling there shoulders rather than have someone teach him and make him understand what are his options when you roll the shoulders. He first of all leans forward to much. I don't like what he's trying to do at all. Emanuel Steward didn't change his bad habits at all. Steward was a person that he should not have ever gone to anyways. After that he went back to his amateur coach.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 12:35:14 AM
SchoolOfHardKnocks:  Yes I do agree with you that it seems as though he's very tight and he has a lot of wasted motion. I think after this last disaster that he will never get his confidence back. He will do like Dominick Guinn now and fade off into the sunset. Fe'ROZ the JT vs Cintron fight would be close and you are right I think Cintron would get hit by one of JT's rights and say he was head butted again...lol But I can see them looking to there corner as well. JT needs to do some soul searching
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 12:36:01 AM
fizz7777:  You'd think JT's team would train the guy to keep going for a full 12 rounds after the Pav debacle, but no. JT still goes downhill fast after the middle rounds, and my guess is this was his last shot at capturing his old glory, although he may yet win a belt against a mediocre titlist in the future. As for Frochy, I think a lot of people underestimate him. Fact is he's always looked quite beatable, he's awkward and open, but somehow always pulls it out of the bag. I have to say that this time luck was on his side, but a top shelf SM would eventually get to him. My advice is STAY AWAY from JC, and get some easy pickings for a while before trying to unite the SM division. The Cobra's gamble paid off big-time tonite, but only just.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 12:38:55 AM
ali:  Its his conditioning if he did'nt get tired he would still be unbeatin he's the Zab Juda of middleweights he can't finish fights strong. I a big fan of JT but he might have to think about retirement Froch is soild but he's not a A class fighter.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 12:39:30 AM
Real Talk:  Sad ,Sad ,Sad, JT blew it again !!! All he had to do is make it to the end of the fight . Well ..I'm 6-2-1 now . Thanks a lot gatekeeper...I mean JT . Dueces
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 01:00:16 AM
EnglishBushpig:  The result i predicted but nothing to crow about, Froch showed mettle in fighting the full 12 rounds and it paid off dividends. A wasted opportunity to gain home supporters...and it showed he wasnt comfortable away from home. Calzaghe would wipe the floor with the Cobra and he should feel himself lucky 'slappy joe' didnt take him up on the offer, the flaws were there for all to see albeit not the best performance which can definatley be improved on. Hopkins and Pavlik will be shoutin to get into this mix and rubbin their hands with glee but if Froch wants to fight the best and improve the division Kessler would be the best option. Even with a loss against Kessler there would still be options with Hopkins and Pavlik and once Kessler is in the mix he will own the division...........Hopkins is a wily ol fox tho and cant ever be looked over. Despite this Froch got the TKO and a good scalp so credit deserved.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 03:22:41 AM
calzagheisretired:  Why do people keep talking about making fights with Calzaghe? He is retired, he has all the money he wants, he has nothing to gain by coming back. At super-middleweight there is no-one to fight: either he's beaten them, or he's beaten the people that beat them, or they aren't rated. So maybe he could come back and fight Bute, but if he won it wouldn't do a thing for his reputation, if he lost it would be hard to wipe that blot off the copy-book. At light-heavy there still isn't anyone to fight, just a lot more chance of getting a smack on the chin and a number in the loss column. He's beaten Hopkins, even if it was close; what would going back and doing it again prove? There's nothing in that fight for JC but money and risk. If he doesn't need the money (and he doesn't, since he hasn't been blowing what he's earned on crap) he won't take it. The only fight he could take that would actually help his reputation if he won would be to go up to heavyweight, RJJ-style, and try for a belt there. Which he won't, because he'd get flattened and he knows it.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 03:50:52 AM
Big Ste:  No No No! Please don't inflict a B-Hop versus Froch fight on the public! That would be an absolute stinker and a clash of styles. I think Froch v Pavlik would be a great opportunity for Froch to stay as champ. As for Kessler, I think he's the only one as strong as Froch but with better defence and Froch would struggle to stay with him. Whichever way he goes I'm happy a fellow Brit went over the pond and went for the KO. A lot of non regular posters on TSS have suddenly developed amnesia anf forgotten their trash talking on Froch and hype of JT. Let's hope Ricky can repeat the trick ans smash the hype machine surrounding little Manny P! x
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 05:12:43 AM
Anonymous user:  Actually Big Ste,.. Chad Dawson is making some noise about coming down to supermiddleweight,... HeartBreaking Loss for Taylor as we tossed our half full glasses of Vodka into the fire place as Taylor managed to fade again after the 10th round,.. which seems to be his limit,... a collective howl of dissappointment could be heard from my house as we simultaneously lost our appetites for the British themed Fish and Chips dinner I prepared in honor of the USA vs Britian SMW Clash,... Props to Carl for digging in and having something left when it was needed,.. I told some of the veiwers not to get too excited by the 3rd round KO,.. because I knew Froch had plenty on reserve,.. so we tentatively clung onto our hopes round by round,.. untill Taylor seemed to become unglued after round 9,.. when we heard Taylor ask "what round is it" after 10,.. we knew the handwriting was on the wall,.. Froch was classy and well spoken after the fight and showed a champions heart,.. good night of boxing,.. we quickly switched over to the Juanma fight,.. It was fun to watch Juanma because he's a guy you can pick to win any fight and know that he'll get the job done,.. unlike certain other guys.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 06:52:31 AM
Sal:  Credit to Froch for a solid performance. Taylor's finished. There's nothing left for him except maybe a meaningless Roy Jones type fight, William Joppy, or even Tommy Hearns (if the rumblings of his gloving up again are true). It's wonderful to see Dominick Guinn back in the mix. I loved his destruction of Michael "The Alien" Grant and felt he had the goods to become America's next great heavyweight. Just maybe he'll fulfill that promise now that he's fully back on track.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 07:07:04 AM
Fe'ROZ :  Big Ste...there's a big difference between Froch and Hatton. We've alll seen Hatton. The talk....that you call trash....about Froch was foolish if it was based on bashing someone never before seen (as some may) or nationalism (as some do). But with Hatton, we've seen enough to make an informed call. me, I give him a fighter's chance.....but would be thrilled to see him marry the turnbuckle again. When you talk about a B+ fighter with an A+ hype......"there's only one Ricky Hatton"
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 07:18:35 AM
Big Ste:  Hatton a B+ fighter eh?.....Ask Magglianagi that, or Tszyu. Manny is a small light welter and we'll see his true A+ metal in the dark stages of this fight.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 07:24:46 AM
Big Ste:  It's not based on Nationalism, Froch is limited but has been a strong puncher with bags of heart shown in many fights. Froch has had plenty of fights but some of the less educated, biggoted American audience don't believe a fighter exists unless he's on HBO in the USA. Come to Europe and see some quality fights from guys you've "never seen". Boxing thrives the world over.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 07:31:35 AM
Fe'ROZ :  I'd ask Maligniggi.... but we'll have to wait until he stops celebrating his victory against the fearful Chris Fernandez...who, if you noticed, came closer to a KO than Hatton. Manny is a true warrior who fights all weight classes, avenges his losses, and moves up to greater challenges. Hatton is a little big (fat) boy, who one one major fight (props) and failed at every other weight....and is now fighting a smaller man. He can't go anywhere but down. My gift to him IS his rating: B+.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 07:35:28 AM
Fe'ROZ :  Big Ste, there is nothing wrong with nationalsm; it's perfectly natural. But most of us on TSS had never seen Froch, not because he fights overseas. We watch Asian, Latin, European, American fighters all the time. Read this site. Froch simply had not had the exposure to broad audience. Even Joe Calzaghe said he was a bore and thea JT woul probably win. He earned my respect last night. I think he'll soon be exposed...and I think B-Hop could do it on his 50th Birthday....but he definitely hs our attention. pc
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 07:40:44 AM
ali:  SchoolOfHardKnocks your right about JT he has alot of wasted motion and he can't seem to relax over a 12 round fight it will tire you out.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 09:12:37 AM
donputo69 chilling with Eastar:  jermain is a bum. mayweather will tko froch in 2 rounds right Eastar? lol . ya dig.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 09:12:48 AM
DaveB:  Big Ste, I think you guys have an advantage over us. Do you get to see all the American fighters? Or at least the big names? We never seem to see fighters until they come to these shores. Our loss I guess. That wasted motion that Taylor has does drain one's body. You always could see that in him. I don't know if it is his training, fast twitch muscle fibers, the pressure of the fight, lack of confidence, or habit. But I think it really doesn't matter now. Well it could but it probably won't. And the guy is only 30, much too young to be where his career is.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 09:30:52 AM
Fe'Roz:  JT always starts out looking like he is gonna' come out 'smokin' with all of his body movement but unlike Joe Frazier whoi looked like boiling water JT's movement makes little sense. Worse yet, it wastes energy that he obviously can ill afford. Add SOHK's observation that JT leans forward and he has become a tragic disaster waiting to happen. I also agree w SOHK: He will never retrieve his confidence.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 09:33:42 AM
thegreatestofalltime10:  Jermain Taylor needs to retire from boxing because his heart is not in the sport anymore and it's obvious that he doesn't train like a hungry fighter. His excuse for losing was that he was punched out in the 12th round and Froch was still strong. What if they were fighting a 15th round fight, instead of a 12 round fight. I don't understand some of the fighters of today. Bring back the 15 round old school fighters who could do 12 hard rounds with 3 more to go. JT did not train for a 12 rounds. In camp, this guy should have been training to go 15 hard rounds, and he wins this fight easily. Mayweather was right when he said his fights are won before he steps in the ring. The same for Jermain Taylor. Noone cannot keep pointing whose training him. The fighter has to take some responsibility when he is not doing what it takes to be dedicated to this sport. I believe that Jermain lost this fight in training and not in the ring, the same thing happen in the first and 2nd Kelly Pavlik fight. JT hasn't been the same since he won the middleweight title. This is a calling for Jermain Taylor's retirement unless he wants to continue to risk his health by keep getting knockout by guy he is more athletic than and has better boxing abilities.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 10:04:36 AM
ali :  People stop saying JT does'nt have heart he has plenty of heart he got knock out by Pavlik in there first fight but in rematch he did'nt fight scared was'nt runing around afraid to be hit.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 12:05:34 PM
thegreatestofalltime10:  I agree with you Ali. JT has heart but he's not hungry anymore. You go back to his old fights and His decisions were 12 rounds of throwing power punches if his opponents last that long. He runds out of gas now. He was winded in the 2nd Pavlik fight also. When you start to have stamina problems, it goes back to training. If you can't come into the ring and be ready to do 12 hard rounds in a boxing match, then I have to question if boxing/training methods that hungry fighters exemplifies in the ring is still in that fighter's heart. JT has to decide if he wants to be the hungry fighter that can go 3 more hard rounds afte the 12th or fight a guy who can do 3 more hard rounds after the 12th. JT has to decide if he wants to be a champion again or be the gatekeeper to other hungry fighters who wants to be champion.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 01:00:18 PM
brownsugar:  dissappointing loss for Taylor,.. we all held a moment of silence at my house and then poured our drinks into the thirsty earth,.. in honor of the brother that won't campaigning for a Super Middle Weight title anytime soon,.. it was tragic and down right depressing to see certain victory slip between Jermaines grasp after round 10,.. but I think Taylor fought the best fight he was capable of,.. using the best possible tools that he had,.. his jab was stiff and whip crack swift,.. the left hook lashed out with trip-hammer efficiency,.. and the bow and arrow right hit its mark repeatedly,.. Jermaine gave his all and yet it wasn't enough,.. reports from Taylors camp said he up to 10 rounds of sparring with 6 rounds of pad work immediately afterwords,.. so lack of training isn't this issue he trained as hard as his body allowed him to,.. and certainly Jermaine doesn't have a lack of heart, (he simply gave out, he didn't give in).. but for some reason he hits the wall after 10 and I would have liked to have seen the ref stop it a little earlier,. as Taylor didn't even have the awareness to grab on after the knockdown,.. his wife got up and stormed out of the venue after the fight was stopped,.. how do you face that??(maybe he could open up a chain of Dry Cleaners),.. anyway good show by Froch who displayed a winners mentality,.. but even in victory Jermaine exposed his short comings and may have laid the blueprint for the other contenders,.. it was a far better effort for Jermaine than it was for Pascal,.. but winning is absolute,.. and coming close is only an academically moot point,.. Froch showed he desire last night and he must be praised,.. (until he meets his demise at the hands of Andre Ward that is),.. Yeah,.. we still got some young guns to handle you `British mugs in the SMW division,.. USA,.. USA,.. usa,..............softly decreases is volume as the band plays on,.........
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 01:11:45 PM
Big Ste:  BrownSugar, Us British mugs come from a country a third of the size of Texas. We regularly keep punching above our weight. Not a bad history for a little island in Europe! Fe'Roz, saying Hatton has had only 1 big fight shows a lack of respect for many excellent fighters who have tried and failed to stop the "fat lad ". I ltruly love watching Manny's fights. His attitude and boxing style are world class. He's my 2nd favourite lightwelter! Hatton KO 10. x
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 01:27:37 PM
MisterLee:  Aight, man, Jeramaine Taylor might need a new trainer. Roach or richardson anybody? He does not know how to box on his toes and jab when he's in trouble, nor hold and such. he's an extremely fast and athletic boxer who likes to fight flat footed and trade. His chin is maybe average, and in general i don't see him having changed too much of his game in the last few years. That and he doesn't have good defense nor foot speed. I think he needs a new trainer, 2-3 tune up fights, and try to reboot his career. I can't believe he blew this one. I mean, this is like Chavez taylor, mosley mayorga finishes, just epic and urgent. All in all, JT has a chance if he gets a new trainer, but he's just some paper champion HBO exalted in order to carry boxing to the new generation. Not quite a gatekeeper, not an elite athlete any longer, still a big name, where does he go? Fight the winner of pavlik mora? :) hehehe...
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 01:49:24 PM
MisterLee:  Maybe he ought to fight the winner/loser of ward/miranda. pc out!
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 01:49:46 PM
brownsugar:  Big Ste,.. I share your respect for Hatton,.. while I don't think his competition has been as world class as Pacmans', ... Ricky is a huge and dangerous threat to topple Pacman next week,.. While I lean to Pacman,.. (only by the slimmest of margins),.. I'm preparing myself mentally (thru life-affirming meditations) in the event that Pac is defeated,.. Two things about Hatton are being overlooked,.. his excellent footspeed,.. and his quick and accurate hands (as a result of his pad work with his new trainer),.. unless Hatton is weight drained,.. this is one super competitive fight,.. on the other hand I think Pacman might change strategy against Fatton by trading on the inside instead of the hit and dodge in and out strategy that he used on Del La Hoya,.. either way, at my house,... we'll be sitting on the edge of our seats,.. vodka in one hand and the other fist clenched rooting for Pacman to overcome the fight of his professional life...and props to your guy Carl Froch,.. he deserves it...
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 01:59:26 PM
Fe'ROZ :  A lot of us here watch everything there is to watch, including the harvesting of past fights via download. I think we can all agree that most fighters establish their records (and their support) carefully in their own backyards. It isn't any more possible to see every young Mexican coming up the ranks than it is to see everyone fighting in Asia.....or any place for that matter. Eventually, the fair markets work their way and the supply (fighters) meets the demand (audience). That's the business. Make your mark and chances are you will get noticed....eventually. No doubt there are lesser known fighters in Europe and elsewhere that deserve the limelight. But since this is an article about SMW's, King Arthur is the white elephant in this post. It's time to bring him over.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 02:06:40 PM
brownsugar:  Fe' Roz,.. Abrahms will be relevent if he can dispatch Pavlik later this year,.. both been struggling with making 160 for some time now,.. so I see this as a pick'em fight,.. Abrahms vs Froch would be a sluggers paradise,.. also Chad Dawson has express much interest in the redhot SMW division,.. endless possibilities...
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 02:24:35 PM
brownsugar:  and what's with Bute sitting ringside??,.. usually that's a sign that promoters are trying to cook up a unification bout,.. Bute also has stamina issues,.. while he's a better technician than Froch,.. I'd be amazed to see him actually accept the fight as he seems to only want the softer opposition,.. I hope he proves me wrong...
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 02:43:32 PM
Yuvie:  Man I was feeling pretty embarassed during the adverts between 11-12. To me, Froch just looked awful, didn't do himself any justice until the 12th round. Why didn't he do that sooner? During most of the fight Froch looked terribly sloppy and the 12th round was sensational. I went a little crazy. I actually don't feel sorry for Taylor at all. He was pretty cocky during certain sections of the fight and the fans got on my nerves a little. I was glad to see the stoppage. Froch resurrected his career with 1 round. I know he looked awful but I don't think we've seen the best of Froch yet. You gotta give it up to him, he didn't have to come to America (with no UK tv coverage) and defend against a guy like Taylor. He took some tremendous shots in there and recovered well against a spirited Taylor. Even though Froch comes off as cocky, I think he does that to hide his nerves because he showed nerves big time. I expect better from him next time. Froch proved a lot of people wrong last night.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 03:42:48 PM
MisterLee:  TSS: correct me if I'm wrong, but I think i made a post here earlier this morning that is "waiting for approval". Thanks!
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 06:06:14 PM
MisterLee:  JT is flawed as a fighter. He's a fast athletic guy with light hands who fights flat footed and can't be effective backing up and with lateral movement. He needs a new trainer, freddie or nasim to me! Pc out! Andre ward 2009!
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 06:12:15 PM
SchoolOfHardKnocks:  MisterLee...Be careful with Andre Ward..It's time for him to stand up and fight someone and this fight with Edison Miranda is a big step up. If he wins this fight he has arrived. Still has a little too much amateur in his game for me. This is definitely his biggest challenge to date. I don't know if he can beat the likes of Sakio Bika, Allan Green. I think they would put him in the ring with someone like Librado Andrade because Andrade is slow and gets hit with everything even the kitchen sink. He could out box Andrade. But they will definitely keep him away from Bika.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 07:01:26 PM
MisterLee:  Hey SOHK, thanks for the heads up! All good... what can you say about Bika? Havent' see him fight yet, but ya know, a fave fight is a fave fighter. I was hit with the kitchen sink thru the winky and penalosa losses, and i still got up :). I got a good cyber chin :). I still feel ward is a class of his own, and i feel he will prove it. oh well, we got "no cajones" gomez coming back on may 1, pacquiao may 2nd, ward on may 16th. Bring it on! :)
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 07:13:49 PM
the Roast:  Hey # 1 Pacfan, where you at in all this? You catch the new 24/7 yet? Six more days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 07:37:37 PM
Fe'ROZ :  Brownsugar, This is a weight class that has so many possibliities with fighters maturing and moving up in weight class. It's situated perfectly for middleweights like Pavlik and Abraham who's days and options at middle are limited. These days, it's like a catch weight with it's own division. Froch comes prepared and shows true grit. He also shows his chin (held too high) and his hands (held too low). I won't make any further assessment/prediction based on last night but do think that he would match up with Pavlik and/or Abraham. As for Pavlik regardless of which weight he ultimately lands and/or fights, he needs to fight Abraham. Bute can be taken deep and beat...librade has printed the blueprint. But is we are talking supremacy in the SMW division, I think we have to agree it's Kessler's until proven otherwise. pc
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 07:58:32 PM
Anony:  Oh man... I love Jermain Taylor boxing and it was just not fair to see him loosing like this. Incredible ending but somehow JT deserves it cause it was Pavlik I all over again. Who told him to keep it cool when he had Froch down???? He needed to capitalize on that round throwing himself to finish Froch but no... he waited and decided to box with him... HUGE MISTAKE JERMAIN!!!! And he had the figt in his pocket. OH NO!!!! Much respect to him anyways. I have never seen a boring fight from JT and he looked great. I don't give too much props to Froch.. He didn't impress me until those final seconds. Before that, he was sparring with Jermain and waiting, waiting, waiting...
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 08:39:35 PM
brownsugar:  Fe'Roz,...Agreed,.. for now,.. but more shall be revealed pc out.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 09:26:35 PM
MisterLee:  How many times did the announcers say Jermaine was "undisputed middleweight champion" and been in many wars.... too many times... hahaha....
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 10:16:13 PM
Fe'ROZ :  Brownsugar...it looks like Bute is talking to Allan Green as we speak. I have my doubts about Bute (after Librade rocked him) but I'll give him props for watching Green demolish de Leon and having the cojones to choose him for his next fight. Green is a wild-card...capable of turning lights out....and clearly not a safe way to bigger pay.
Sunday Apr 26, 2009 11:05:57 PM
ali:  Mister Lee you make some good points Taylor with a new trainer is a good idea. Nasim would be perfect cause when he took over as a full time trainer for Hopkins he look like he could have went 12 more rounds with Pavlik and he picked up his punch out put. He did same thing for Mosley against Margacheato usually Mosley takes deep breaths during fights but with Nasim I did'nt see him do it one time thats tells me he has his fighters in great shape and his game plans have been incredible he would be a perfect fit for Taylor.
Monday Apr 27, 2009 01:53:46 AM
Davey:  An entertaining fight full of flare but flare wont get one right to the top alone, and Froch must get this in his head. He's got the granite chin, he`s got the Jab hes got the punch power, he needs to keep his guard up cos the Likes of Class A Kessler will counter with more force and wont let him off the hook! Up the work rate too Froch like your corner were saying keep the jab going and the right hand will come, did you`se note in the later rounds when froch started using that jab he was pushing Taylor right across the ring pretty simple but Froch lets his heart conquer his boxing brain, wanting to get the big knock out blow, he needs to get it in his boxing brain that that will come if he keeps the jab going. He needs to combine both heart and brains! Though i give it to him he was a bit nervous at the start , but he came over the pond straight way, and took on a top contender, that took courage. Hmm same old Taylor fast start, burns out and he doesnt finish he opponents off, though a great sportsman. Froch has good chances against Pavlik and Bute , But not against Kessler unless he fixes his flaws. As for Joe Calzaghe leave him be Froch and show him respect!!!
Monday Apr 27, 2009 02:51:56 AM
Davey:  just following on Taylor has the boxing skills too a point but he certainly doesnt have enough heart that why i say youve got to combine heart and brain and thats why he did`nt finish froch off. A prime example of a Great Boxer who combines Heart and boxing brain is Joe Calzaghe!
Monday Apr 27, 2009 03:02:22 AM
brownsugar:  Taylor has no lack of heart,.. he just needs a proper physical trainer,..(Taylor gave out,. He didn't give up) .. he should run to Anne Wolfe's Boxers Boot camp and spend 90 days getting in some cross training,.. Carl FRoch, Kelly Pavlik,.. and James Kirkland use a lot of cross training techniques which gives those guys the confidence to rebound and continue even though the situation looks hopeless or when the mountain gets steep,.. Timothy Bradley is another cross-trainer and you saw how it helped him pop-up after getting crushed by a Kendall Holt left hook that literally sent him flying,.. I'm not making excuses for Taylor, he lost fair and square,.. just saying that his training regimine needs to be elevated,.. or these young strong bucks will continue to outlast him,.. I remember one of the guys I trained with in my amatuer days was the first alternate(for the USA Olympic team) to James Tate, I was in my mid twenties and just walked off the street to learn to box (and man did I suck) but my fitness routine from my wrestling background allowed me to hang with him every day for 6 weeks (untill he finally dislocated my jaw),.. Jermaine's trainers focus on execution and boxing technique,.. when he should take a page out of Pavliks book and hammer some truck tires' etc..(which they filmed him doing once after the loss, but it was just for show)... anyway it's anybodies guess if Taylor still has any ambition left after such a close defeat,..
Monday Apr 27, 2009 11:16:05 AM
brownsugar:  Fe'Roz,.. Green has Charmed the entire ESPN staff,.. as well as HBO,.. with his far better than average social skills,.. but I still can't get over the fact that he was a no-call, no-show over 14 months ago against Entwon Echols,.. and just vanished off the map,.. I know he's had some issue's (the intestinal infection against Miranda), but there still hasn't been an explanation for his dissappearance,.. yes he has good power,. and can make for a dangerous contender,.. but the showing he put on saturday didn't show much and he still was getting with a lot of hooks,.. I used to like Green,.. but his long unexplained absence,.. and sudden return on a championship undercard leaves me feeling a little leary about him. is he another soft opponent for Bute?? time will tell.
Monday Apr 27, 2009 11:45:54 AM
Fe'ROZ :  Brownsugar, They said Green lost 85% of his colon. I don't know why or when but he sounds lucky to be alive....and I'm not sure how smart for continuing to fight
Monday Apr 27, 2009 10:12:38 PM

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