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cotto clottey


Wednesday Apr 15, 2009

Clottey was in such a good place at MSG on Tuesday. He was at ease, as if he had his gameplan against Cotto plotted to perfection, and he knew the outcome in advance.

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Is Clottey Catching Cotto At Just The Right Time?

By Michael Woods

Miguel Cotto’s rumble with his uncle Evangelista sounded a heckuva lot more interesting than just about any heavyweight title fight we’ve seen in the last few years, didn’t it? Such passion, such fury…why couldn’t most of Wladimir Klitschko’s recent foes have summoned half that energy and zest for combat?

Family squabbles can go from 0 to 60 on the lunacy scale when a rift ruptures. When a livable gulf explodes into a canyonesque vacuum that can’t be filled by any amount of mediation or heart-to-heart fence mending sessions, sometimes folks throw hard objects through their loved ones’ Jaguar windshields. Better that, I say, than a piece of lead aimed at a noggin, instead of a rock at an automobile. That’s my lengthy way of saying...Hopefully with some time elapsed, Miguel Cotto and his father’s brother will be able to be in the same room without trying to take each others’ head off, and perhaps even look back on their April brouhaha, and chuckle at their ineffectiveness at conflict resolution.

But the Miguel Cotto I saw on Wednesday at a press conference at Madison Square Garden to hype his June 13 showdown with one of boxing’s most underrated hitters, Joshua Clottey, that Cotto hasn’t been able to move past the family fracture. He looked spent, like he needed an IV of espresso to snap out of a mental funk, as he took questions from the NYC fightwriter mafia. If Cotto and Clottey were to throw down this weekend, I’d not be afraid to throw a few bucks down on the underdog Clottey, who looked to be locked into a mindset of joyful anticipation at the prospect of getting his chance of a lifetime.

But there will be plenty of time for the 28-year-old  Cotto (33-1, 27 KOs; sole loss to Antonio Margarito July 2008) to get the recent bloodline battle out of his head. For eight weeks, the Puerto Rican hitter will train in Tampa, Florida, and one presumes he may well emerge from that camp in a better frame of mind and body than he has in some other camps, when he sparred with his trainer as heatedly as he did with his paid sparring partners. For that reason, I see Cotto as a 60-40 favorite to take down Clottey. I see a distance fight, with conditioning and will being the most important factors in deciding a victor.

Since 2006, five of Clottey’s seven outings went the distance. Since 2006, five of Cotto’s nine outings went the distance, or ended in the second to last round. Clottey will be in Cotto’s face, and will try and grind him down. The Ghanian does not have the power to stop Cotto. And in 38 pro tiffs, Clottey (35-2, 20 KOs; last bout was a win against Zab Judah last August) hasn’t been stopped; I don’t see the pugilist Cotto doing the deed in June. Cotto will take a UD, with a margin of two or three points, at the end of the night. 

Then again, that aura that Clottey dispensed at MSG…the 32-year-old New York appears to be in a zone of confidence that should worry Cotto fans.

As a matter of fact, when asked what a win over Cotto would mean, Clottey didn’t deliver the expected response, and say that he was thinking only of the present, of what he had to do to hand Cotto his second loss. He said that a win over Cotto would get him another marquee tussle, with Shane Mosley.

“I know Cotto’s gonna hit me,” said Clottey, the IBF 147 pound champion. “I can take his punches, but I don’t know about him taking mine.” He also said he lusted after a rematch with Antonio Margarito (he lost a UD12 to Margarito in Dec. 2006, a fight he was winning until he hurt his hand). “I want a rematch very badly,” he said. If Clottey’s hand gets raised on June 13, we can look at his forward-thinking, and concede that his foresight was the product of a prepared mind. If he loses, we are likely to decide that he may have gotten ahead of himself…

As TSS told you earlier, Cotto will be trained for the time being by the unknown Joe Santiago, a trainer of Puerto Rican amateurs, who has been with Cotto for three fights as a conditioning coach and nutritional consultant. They will work together in Tampa, away from the tug of family ties in PR, though Cotto said he might still hire on another, presumably more well-known tutor. Would he ever reunite with Evangelista? “I don’t know, I don’t think so,” he said.

Cotto made it clear that he didn’t want to belabor the matter concerning he and his uncle’s violent clash. He also said he never considered putting off the bout. Both he and Clottey chose not to re-enter the Margarito/MargaCheato fray. “I prefer to keep in my mind he had a good night against me in Las Vegas,” Cotto said of the tainted boxer.

Promoter Bob Arum told TSS that he thinks the split with the uncle could really help Cotto, removing an element of distraction. Cotto is on the same page. “I feel less pressure” with Evangelista’s exit, he said. “I hope the less pressure gives me the opportunity to train better.”
Early on, I referenced Cotto’s seeming funk, so I was curious how much he is still digging the whole not-so-merry-go round of the fight game, the political beefs with his promoter and his familial squabbling. How much longer, I asked Cotto, will you keep fighting?

“A year and  a half, two years,” he said. Cotto’s contract with Arum is up in 2010, and two months ago, it looked like a done deal that he and Arum would go the way of Miguel and Evangelista, though perhaps without the Jaguar modification. But on Tuesday, it sounded like Arum had done some skilled PR work to heal wounds. “(Me and Top Rank) are good, like always,” he said. “We’ve always had a good relationship.” ‘Cept that time two months ago when you were furious that Arum seemingly took Margarito’s side..but I digress… “When the contract is finished, I will sit with Top Rank and negotiate,” the current WBO welterweight titlist said.

I am not afraid to gush a little bit, and tell you all that I have been quite impressed with the newest head of the NY athletic commission, Melvina Lathan. Partly because she wasn’t afraid to publicly gush about Barack Obama’s improbable, wondrous win in November, but also because she isn’t afraid to depart from the script, and just speak her mind on boxing matters. She said she would’ve been harder on Margarito than California was if his hand warp shenanigans occurred in her jurisdiction two months back, and on Tuesday, she again showed that she is capable of displaying a knack for not simply mouthing platitudes and fill in the blanks banalities. “I thank HBO for making this a straightup HBO fight, and not a pay per view,” she said. “It’s a good thing.” Halle-frickin-lujah! Rather than appearing to be a mouthpiece for the cable behemoth, she actually spoke up for the long term good of the sport and the shrunken wallet of the average fan who has been forced, if he or she wanted to watch premium fights, to pay hand over hand over fist for it in the last five years. “These guys are fit and ready and they can bang,” she said of Cotto and Clottey.

Arum noted then that 60% of tickets for the event are scaled at $50 or $100, which is reasonably reasonable in this day and age.

Clottey, during his turn at the mike, showed a load of class, as he stated, “I am sorry about what happened between Miguel and his uncle, everything will be fine.” That said,  he wasn’t just in warm and fuzzy mode. “It’s going to be a war in the ring,” he promised.

Cotto then took to the mike, and he articulated what his wan demeanor suggested. “This is not one of the great moments of my career,” he said, “but I will work on climbing out.”

SPEEDBAG Martin “Bazooka” Kovzelove is one of those dudes I see at almost every big press conference and I have never taken the time to figure out who he is and what he does. Turns out he’s a cut man who is owed some money by the folks at Dum Dum lollipops. About ten years ago, Bazooka was in Gleasons Gym, and there happened to be a commercial shooting there. Larry Holmes and Gerry Cooney were starring in the spot for Dum Dum lollipops, and a production guy tapped Bazooka to be in the spot. Not a speaking role, but after a couple of hours of production, he had a few bucks coming to him. He’s still waiting for his check. To make matters worse, that Dum Dum spot never ran, Bazooka thinks, so he didn’t even get a chance to see his mug on the tube. Bazooka said he asked Larry about the spot a few years later, and Holmes didn’t really recall the shoot. One presumes that Larry got his check, because that man would remember the shoot if the Dum Dummies still owed him dough….

---Had a nice chat with former lightweight and junior lightweight champion Joey Gamache. The Maine-iac has been apprenticing under Manny Steward the last couple of years, soaking up Manny’s ways in camps for Jermain Taylor, Kermit Cintron, Andy Lee and Jonathan Banks. Now, trainer Gamache is ready to make his own mark. He’s looking for a few good men to mold and help reach the promised land. “I’m looking for guys with desire, and dedication and discipline,” he said. Fit that bill? Call him at 646-245-8084.

---I gushed earlier about Lathan. Here’s a bit more gushing. I truly believe this woman is looking to make the most of her position, and will look for ways to help some of those boxers who aren’t able to yank themselves up by their bootstraps; who may have fallen on hard times; who may be feeling the effects of blows absorbed in decades past, and are having a hard time making their way in the United States’ health care system which is stacked in favor of the wealthier folks who are afforded employer-provided health insurance coverage. Lathan is putting together a financial planning seminar which will run on May 18 at Pac U in NYC. Fighters past and present can attend, free, and get some advice on how to make the most of their earnings. Check back with TSS; we will have more specifics on the seminar, and more details on Lathan’s plans to encourage some of those who have benefitted the most financially from the sport of boxing to establish funds and programs for those who have served the sport, without enjoying a financial windfall.

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Contact Michael Woods @ TheSweetScience.com


The Watcher:  Clottey is the most dangerous guys out there for almost anyone and I think if his hands are healthy he will be a nightmare for Cotto. This will be a great fight for the fans..
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 11:29:48 AM
Radam G aka Humble PRG missin' da Don:  No! Clottey is now catching Cotto at the right time. In this upcoming bout, Cotto will find a way be a dime. Chaos in his family is nothing new. The cat is what he is. No need to shed tears. On behalf of Donputo 69, Miguel Cotto is back. He'll win by UD. "You heard it here, first!" Holla back, ladies! Holla!
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 11:39:33 AM
Radam G aka Humble PRG missin\' da Don:  My bad! No! Clottey is not...Holla!
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 11:40:54 AM
Radam G aka Humble PRG:  My prediction is that Miguel's unc will be back in Team Cotto's corner by fight time. He is what makes Cotto a boxing dime. Not some conditioning cat with a bunch of amateur fighters. The love between Cotto and Uncle will become quite a tighter. Sometimes families have to go through a storm to find a rainbow. And at the end of it, a pot of gold. And then they will put on quite a show. Now, you have been told. But in the words of Donputo 69: "You heard it here, first. Holla back, ladies." Holla!
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 12:19:32 PM
Yuvie:  It doesn't look good for Cotto, not only has he gotta gel with his new trainer but he's got the problems with his uncle and Arum at the back of his mind and he's fighting one of the toughest welterweights out there. Again, as with the Margarito fight, it's gonna depend how Cotto feels during the championship rounds because I'm sure that if Cotto is to win this, he'll have to go 12 rounds with Clottey. Clottey's biggest problem down the stretch may be that he won't be active enough. At this stage, it's looking to me like a Clottey win, with the winner hopefully taking on Williams.
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 01:26:03 PM
Saul:  I think Clottey is going to put up a hell of a fight against Cotto. I don't want to predict a Clottey win because I didn't get a chance to see Cotto's last fight against that British guy, but I will say this, Sparks will fly.
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 01:29:59 PM
Big Daddy's On Spring Break:  Clottey is a Top Welter who's more than capable of beating Cotto even on his best day. I'm still not sure that Miguel is the same fighter that he was before the Margarito fight. In spite of the drama, the Clottey fight will show everyone where Cotto is at physically and mentally. I hope he's the Cotto of old... extremely talented and unafraid to take on anyone. With DLH retiring, Boxing needs a healthy Cotto ( and Manny ) to carry the sport. Fraud Mayweather is incapable, since he is more interested in Easy Money than anything else.
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 01:34:42 PM
Anony @ Radam:  It's incredible... On the Oscar's "retirement' article you really talked BS like some people say BUT here you write exactly what I want to hear... and I agree... Cotto will cool things off with his uncle. He hasn't decide on anybody else outside of his normal team out of respect to the most important person in his boxing team besides himself : Evangelista. So.. It will not surprise me if he comes back and make the team stronger than ever. it's in their blood you know.. fighting and get pissed off.... Cotto UD!!!!!
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 01:54:05 PM
#1 Pacfan "KO's Hatton in 9":  Has Cotto found a new trainer yet? If he hasn't i think he should look into Emmanuel Steward or Coach Freddie Roach. I got Cotto by UD or late round stoppage.FOY candidate!
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 02:36:09 PM
#1 Pacfan "KO's Hatton in 9":  @Big Daddy...He has always been the Cotto who is fearless of anyone. Taking this fight totally explains it, Clottey like they say is one of the feared fighters of the game which i disagree. Clottey never marketably made a name for himself and that's the promoter who is at fault. Just because an opponent opts to want to fight a particular fighter does not mean he fears him, it can be due to that fighter not drawing fight fans(but it's not always the case)which can be less money involved. But overall this a good fight for Cotto, Clottey is talent and a durable fighter. I changed my prediction to SPLIT DECISION OR 12TH STOPPAGE FOR COTTO.Payce!
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 02:47:23 PM
Porkupine:  Clottey isn't aggressive enough to outwill even a distracted Miguel Cotto . I see Clottey getting stopped.
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 03:12:09 PM
Ramonito:  Clottey will do to Cotto what Margaroto did, ...so i say clottey in 10 or less.
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 03:24:47 PM
MisterLee @ Saul:  Cotto looked the same ole' cotto agst jennings. A bit more patient, but when let his hands go his left hook just broke jennings like a rag doll, but jennings punches like Paulie Malignaggi, w/o the work rate, so who knows? I'm pulling for Joke Coach Roach (great trainer, just love the name!) Or Nazim "The Darn Genie" Richardson. The latter being able to help fighters "Mine without getting gold dust" hahaha! As I would like to say, I question Radam's sanity sometimes, but I never question his wit, his genius, his boxing knowledge, nor his sense of humor... haha pc out! :) Ward over miranda 09! :)
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 05:11:59 PM
Francisco from California:  I'm leaning towards Clottey by TKO. I don't think Cotto can hurt Clottey. I see Cotto taking a knee several times until its stopped by the referee. What it will come down to is who is the most active and well conditioned. I'm hoping for a Cotto win....but that Clottey is no punk. Clottey by TKO round 10 or 11.
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 06:00:21 PM
Lee the Caveman:  Hey Francisco! Welcome to TSS! I see a similar outcome, but the whole thing is Cotto is not "one who takes knees". It was his first time, and it was agst a loaded opponent, i don't see that happening, but i do see clottey taking it to him in the later rounds, it will be exciting with some possible tradiing in the middle rounds. No more old vs. young lions, a real contender match, like berto colazo, but better! pc out! :) Mosley is waiting on the sideline, if not, ya'll musta forgot!!
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 07:25:46 PM
Mister Lee the Caveman:  BTW- Mayweather retiring from the sport was a good thing! If he were still here, Mayweather vs the great contender Alfonso "no cajones" gomez would be on PPV, and stupid pple would pay for it, as opposed to a Cotto vs. Clottey match on REGULAR HBO! De La Hoya's career was good for boxing, mayweather's retirement is even better!! :)
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 07:27:29 PM
Fe'Roz :  We're Eight Weeks out............from what has the potential of being a great fight. It also, depending on Clottey's ability TO ACT on his commitment to a higher work rate, has the possiblity of disappointing. Given the durability of both fighters, I see this one going long into the night where desire and commitment decide the fight. As I've said before, I've seen the quit in Cotto's eyes (in the early/middle rounds of his loss to Margarito). He lost confidence when his punches failed to impress the one person he needed to impress, Margarito. That cannot happen against Clottey. We all saw him fight the wrong stategy in that fight; something else he can not afford to do in June. SOHK and others here have talked about technical flaws in Cotto. I am interested to hear/learn more specifically how/what you all think Cotto needs to do in training to grow as a fighter. Because on PR-DAY at MSG, Joshua Clottey will be using his best...and possibly only...opportunity to add another L to Cotto's record. And he is very capable of doing just that. pc
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 07:36:46 PM
Nuckle:  Clottey Wins
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 07:57:48 PM
MisterLee:  I still think Cotto switching trainers was/is a blessing in disguise. He could learn some new tricks, and tighten up some of his boxing skills. Just look at Pacquiao, the P4P king improves and has something new every time he goes to a fight. Cotto could expand by learning from a new trainer. I'm sure with a good and famous trainer, cotto would not come out with the wrong game plan. Okay.. just read Fe'Roz's post. I think some of Cotto's technical flaws... #1 endurance.... Paul Williams called him a "10 round fighter". He couldn't sustain the same pace for 12 rounds with mosley and almost lost the fight, so he decided to dance and move. We saw the Marg fight, despite the loaded gloves, cotto couldn't move on his toes for 12 rounds. #2 Defense. Yes his defense is pretty good and better than average. He rarely gets hit flush nor outgunned, but when he does, he loses composure, doens't know how to tie up. His hands up guard is pretty good, but there are holes in the middle and he tends to lean forward with his head in the pocket. When he moves away from opponents laterally he has a tendency to display some "slickness" but in doing that he always keeps his hands down and actually turns his head away from the opponent which is dangerous b/c sometimes fighters catch him when he thinks hes out of range. #3 footwork. he can't fight on his toes and jab and move very well. I think it was mayweather or emmanuel steward that said he's a brawler that moves like a boxer or looks like a boxer. He can box, but then he has a tendency to become flat footed and trade, which is not good agst a dangerous opponent. He can work on his jabbing and movement, which is helpful if you are hurt or outgunned or need to take a round off. #4 it would hurt if cotto had more head movement, and also parried, catches, and deflects more punches. As an example, Mosley showed GREAT defense in the Marg fight. He parried punches, he used his jab to keep marg off balance, he slipped jabs, he moved well on his feet and circled the ring and kept away from the ropes. I think those are all I can think of at the moment, but I just think if cotto was a bit more defensive mindedness, and if he was able to box on his toes a little bit better, rather than depend on his offense specifically, he can be a complete fighter similar to how pacquiao has developed his missing parts of his game (when was the last time pacquiao was hit flush, a marquez fight, and morales 2 from my memory). Pc out!
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 08:50:01 PM
SchoolOfHardKnocks :  I know nothing about the guy that Cotto hired as his new trainer so I don't know what he knows. He might be more the just a nutritionist. I don't know but I do know that if he doesn't know how to really train then that spells DOOM for Cotto. There's no doubt Cotto will get buzzed in this fight. It's a given. How he handles it is what I'm truly interested in seeing. I personally don't think he has learned from that loss to Margarito. You can't continue winning fights on such a high level being a one handed bandit. The wear and tear on Cotto is showing up too much. If Clottey doesn't let his hands go though he will lose by a decision
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 09:45:27 PM
Fe'Roz :  Mister Lee, i can't dispute any of your points; the most salient being his imperfect defense (he has been nailed on numerous occasions) and his endurance. Cotto's popularity in many ways has been earned by his offensive style and ability to come back from dreamland; the latter a testament to a certain level of conditioning. He can take a punch (I would argue too many) and can be expected to battle regardless . But that is a formula for fame....not necessarily greatness. I am still interested in SOHK's focus on Cotto's one-handed (left) approach and the obvious implication that he has not learned to use his right effectively as the level of competition intensifies. pc
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 09:49:39 PM
SchoolOfHardKnocks :  Fe'ROZ..I'm touching on Cotto's right hand because he didn't use it at all when he fought Margarito and he kept moving to the left to try an use his left all the time. Another thing that's a very bad habit is that he puts his hands up so high that he can't see right hands coming. He blinds himself from rights. This is stuff that should have been corrected early in his career and now it's really too late now. He also leans over too much so he can be caught with upper cuts often. You are absolutely right that Cotto's popularity has been earned by his offensive style and abliity to come back from dreamland. I think it could be catching up to him now. He gets hurt in too many of these fights. Beginning to have a lot of wear and tear on his body. Soon what will happen is the punches he use to absorb he will be getting hurt by them more now.
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 10:23:13 PM
Fe'Roz :  There are some intangibles that will impact any decision, assuming the fight goes the distance, that may be left in the hands of the judges. Let's start with Miquel Cotto. He is the star and the the promotional force in this fight; the name that fill seats. In a word, a valuble asset. He has a huge built-in following in Puerto Rico and the fight is in NYC on PR-Day. Should I continue? Joshua Clottey. He is from Ghana. I haven't heard the Ghanan version of "Walking in a Clottey Wonderland". Ever. He has us, real fight fans, and a smattering of gamblers believeing in his ability to beat Cotto. That might help beer (and ticket) sales at the Garden but Clottey won't notice....or profit. These are cold facts. Facts that will make Joshua Clottey lose if he fails to Convincingly out-work Cotto and effectively control the ring. Punch output is not and cannot be underestimated and/or undervalued. He simply must recognize this going in and/or he should not wince when the scorecards are read.....regardless of how convincingly we might believe he out-pointed Cotto. This is MC's fight to lose. that may not be fair....but what is.
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 10:28:12 PM
Fe'Roz :  SOHK, We must have been typing at the same time. Thx. I'm going to re-watch his last few fights and pay closer attention to the way (height) he hold his hands...and the inability to see incoming rights. (I know Mister Lee is up doing whatever he does downloadind more old tapes as we speak) What, in your opinion, is the reason that his trainers thus far have not seen and corrected this flaw.....and more importantly, can a remedy be devised and adapted to his method at this juncture in his career. It's not as if his team hasn't seen him been hit .......and hurt badly. pc
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 10:40:36 PM
SchoolOfHardKnocks:  LOL...Yeah u are right, typing at the same time. Fe'ROZ...No doubt Cotto is the asset and I agree that in order for Clottey to win he has to do it in a convincing style. The only reason that I can see that Cotto's trainers has consistedly let him get hit with the same punches and not corrected is because they don't really know how. It's basically too late to change that from him now because it's a very bad habit that he has built into his style now. Check him out Fe'ROZ, he will be bent over with his hands high, now right there he's susceptible to right hands and uppercuts. His right hand is so bad that I would tell my fighter whenever he puts his hands up high like that, throw a hard right hand and roll out to the right because he will only try and come with a left hook and soon as he misses with a left hook keep catching with those rights at his ear. Keep giving him angles. Paul Williams is great at that. That's why PW fighting Cotto would really be unfair. That would be a total mismatch
Wednesday Apr 15, 2009 11:46:31 PM
MisterLee:  Cheers fellas! SOHK is right! That's why I think the change from Evangelista is a blessing in disguise! The guy doesn't know how to add on to Cotto's strengths. Pple say there were lots of instants in the marg fight when it looked like cotto was training himself. Nazim Richardson and what he did for Mosley: looked at the complete vault of old tapes, observe mosley's old and bad habits and refine them, look at margarito's old fights and construct a good game plan, filling in some blanks, "fly without rising" (ode to Radam G), nazim can do this with cotto... so my top coach picks: Joke Coach Roach, Nazim Richardson, Floyd Mayweather Sr., Roger Mayweather (that'd be awesome to see him and floyd spar!), and Emmanuel Steward (yes the fight is going just as I predicted...) Nah man, Fe'Roz, I'm late in the game in boxing, that's why I'm catching up! Youtube is only 3 years old, that's how long i've been watching real boxing! I didn't grow up watching chavez, de la hoya, or roy jones on tv! The reason? Chinese pple are cheap and save their money, and don't buy cable in their households! Dang Chinese! So yeah, anybody see Cotto vs. Urkral? Haven't seen it yet. So ward takes miranda in 6 rounds.... Alfonso "NC" Gomez revives his career, Clottey knocks out Cotto (unless cotto hires a non-pilates expert), penalosa wins by late fight stoppage, that's all I can think of...pc out!
Thursday Apr 16, 2009 04:34:53 AM
MisterLee:  Fe'Roz, good topic man! Analyzing Cotto! Besides that, it's obvious why we DO love him! He's a sensation! If he becomes the complete package, there's no doubt he'l be p4p king someday. I think he has more potential than Ricky Hatton, and look what happened with ricky hatton at age 30! Pc out! :) VICIOUS VICTOR ORTIZZZZ....
Thursday Apr 16, 2009 04:37:08 AM
swift:  nice way to give Cotto a build in excuse if he loses! Give me a break, everyone deals with things during their training, you have no idea what some of these fighters are going through! Why don't you find out what clottey's going through...
Thursday Apr 16, 2009 05:00:26 AM
Fe'Roz :  Swift, nobody is giving Cotto any excuses nor, if you read these posts, are we fully analyzing Clottey. Yet. Now if you have something to add that is as thoughtful and insightful as Mister Lee and SOHK in regard to Cotto, speak up. We're all ears. That's why we're here. If not, show some respect and appreciation.
Thursday Apr 16, 2009 05:29:14 AM
MisterLee:  Of course some of us know what Cotto's going thru, SOHK is a professional trainer!
Thursday Apr 16, 2009 06:22:24 AM
Anony:  Mister Lee, Fe'roz and SOHK seems to love each other.... good thing, uh?!!! I hope they all live in California. : )
Thursday Apr 16, 2009 07:07:38 AM
andy from newcastle @FEROZ MRLEE SOHK:  Boy you guys were working hard yesterday. Cotto used to be the stone faced terminator, but recently he's been getting a bit full of himself, and tops it off with those gawdawful tats and a domestic scene right from one of those gawdawful telenovelas that me missus watches every night. Having said that, Clottey will work hard, has a rock head, but will be outboxed. Cotto UD. Penalosa won't make it past 3. And within 18 -24 months, Lopez and Ortiz will be top 10 P4P, add another year and top match ups, and they will be 1 and 2, and will stay there for as long as they want. Toonoy
Thursday Apr 16, 2009 08:30:56 AM
MisterLee:  Yo yo... to me, Chad Dawson, Andre Ward, and Ortiz are the future of boxing. My friend told me Juanma Lopez is the next pacquiao (or superstar). I believe him, but penalosa is good man! but we'll see. Also, Alfredo angulo is gonna be dangerous for anybody, and he'll probably eventaully move up to middleweight, so a lot of these guys might mix, since I see ortiz moving up to welterweight someday, since that's where the action and money is at. Andre Ward is gonna clear out the division... between 160-175 in my opinion, ur jermaine taylors, abrahams and pavlik's are gonna be history! Pc out!
Thursday Apr 16, 2009 09:45:46 AM
MisterLee:  An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response
Thursday Apr 16, 2009 12:03:57 PM
ultimoshogun:  I see this fight going down to the final bell just like Quartey vs De La Hoya, and won't be surprised if they both get dropped at some point. Can't pick a winner, just looking forward to a great fight.
Thursday Apr 16, 2009 01:49:27 PM
Anony @ Mister Lee:  Hey Lee... you just described me perfectly... thank you!!!!!! I sometimes like to be the "troll" you describe for real!!!! hahahaha but It's just a joke guys... I respect you all. Now back to the topic and "off-trolling"... Cotto by UD in a war!!!! Clottey is all heart and will come straight forward, Cotto knows this... and he knows he needs to impose respect to break the African lion so... expect just that, a war that will make Fadeweather tremble prompting him to go back to the sauna so he can make weight to fight the little guys!!!!! What he doesn't know is that Hatton or Pacquiao are blood thirsty... waiting for him.... so... the mouse is in the maze... no matter where he goes his first loss awaits. 2009 has proven to be a great year for boxing. And the best still to come.... you got to love BOXING!!!!!
Thursday Apr 16, 2009 01:55:40 PM
Anony:  TO EDITOR MIKE: We have to congratulate our editor for that interview with Bob Arum, not only it is cool to have the video, but he made the right questions straight out!! You got to love the answer about Margarito... HAND CREAM??? that's a new one Bob!!!! yeah right... Anyways... Great video and I hope it happens again in the future whenever is possible. Hats off to the editor guys plsssssss!!!!!! : )
Thursday Apr 16, 2009 02:08:03 PM
MisterLee @ ultimoshogun:  I know that you think it will be even mr. ultimoshogun, just curious tho, what's your analysis of the fight? how does the fight play out in your head? what do you think their strenghts and weaknesses are? I've enjoyed your posts and comments in the past, and as a loyal crow eater, I'd like to know more of your opinion. Pc out. TSS rules!!
Thursday Apr 16, 2009 03:43:06 PM
swift:  feroz, this whole article screams excuse. Nobody cares what Cotto or any other fighter is going through before a fight, because we don't know everything. It's as bad as saying when roy jones beat james toney, that it's blemished because toney had trouble making weight! Personally, that's toney's problem, when he ran his mouth he should have been training... If Miguel Cotto is having problems with his uncle or who ever else, either postpone the fight or leave the excuses at the door, because I know if he loses people will point this out!! How is that for insightful?
Thursday Apr 16, 2009 03:50:45 PM
ultimoshogun@MisterLee:  MisterLee, In my opinion it's gonna come down to whether or not Clottey is willing to open up and engage. The only weakness I see in his style is that he can be too defensive at times. I think Cotto's style of boxing is textbook, except he seems to struggle with elite fighters (Margarito, Mosley) when they take him into deep water. I also think Clottey has the better chin so I guess I'm leaning towards him to have his hand raised in the end.
Thursday Apr 16, 2009 04:45:58 PM
Fe'Roz :  Swift, as far as I'm concerned, I'm not interested in excuses period. Not in this fight. Not ever. What seperates boxing from all other sports is the absolute; the absolute certainty that if your opponent fails to see your flaws and capitalize....flaws that can be truly fatal.......someone, some other trainer, someone (here) will. Make a mistake.....maybe you get away with it....but sooner or later it shows up ...and worse, it catches up. And just like that your world never ever looks the same. Speaking of which, I am not convinced at all that Cotto can or will (or should) ever be the same after the beatdown he took last summer. Check my posts. I give no quarter (or credence) to the controversy that developed in a later fight. Cotto lost his fight with Margarito......badly. He must show....and I don't give two whatevers about the Caguas clash..... that he has made adjustments, technically, tactically and strategically before I'm convinced. He is a great althlete who has shown power and heart. He'll need all of that and more against Clottey. And let there be no excuses.
Thursday Apr 16, 2009 07:17:24 PM
SchoolOfHardKnocks:  Swift, I understand where you are coming from. If you read those comments, most of the guys are saying why Cotto would lose. We are not saying that if he loses that the problems he had with Evangelista was the reason. We talked about his skill level, as far as where he's at now. I'm not coming with any excuses. I'm pointing out bad habits of Cotto that's going to cost him. I also not convinced that Cotto is over the beatdown he received from Margarito. I constantly say the wear and tear. Those are not excuses those are things that I'm seeing. Anony..I don't know any of these guys, no we don't love each other but I will say I appreciate fight people with very good knowledge and I tip my hat to anyone like that.
Thursday Apr 16, 2009 08:04:30 PM
Radam G aka Humble PRG told yall:  Oh, course! There were no plaster of paris elements on Margahero's handwraps. The CSAC ought to just quit like they did in trying to suspend amateur boxing in Cali. I told this universe from the jump that Margahero used some UREA 10 percent Lotion on his hands. Also known as CARMOL 10, boxers use it to keep their hands moist. The elements in the lotion, include sulfur and calcium. Hey! When my little flat brown a$$ use to get dry, I would put the lotion on it, back in the day in Cali. Man! I'm lucy the melodramatic CSAC didn't suspend me for having elements of plaster of paris between the crack of my a$$. I guess they didn't wanna look where the sun didn't shine. Lmfao! Holla!
Friday Apr 17, 2009 01:50:19 AM
Anony @ SOHK:  I hear that SOHK but sometimes the sweetscience gets sweeter when all you want is the brawl to happen and put aside knowledge and statistics... It is entertaining to do that (research and video analysis) but in a battle like this I believe it is all about heart and who wants it more.... that the sweetest part about it.... I will go with my boy Cotto, not only because his Boricua, but he has all the talent in the world and has done things right, never ducking anyone, improving in front of our eyes, always delivering exciting fights... and one more thing that is very important... he doesn't want a media celebrity status; he just want to be a BOXER. That's why the press here gets mad, they guy doesn't talk anything but boxing. Soooo, on june 13th we won't find any statistics or gossips in between our Boricua pride and the African lion... the punches will tell the story!!!!!!!!! Man... I can't wait for this one!!!!! GO COTTO!!!!!!
Friday Apr 17, 2009 07:27:26 AM
Joe:  Clottey by TKO - Round 10. He wants it bad and it's the biggest fight of his life. Cotto will be around but this Puerto Rican Day will not be spent riding around NYC - unless it's with a puffed up face. Clottey is a really good welterweight... (I don't know what the heck Diego (RIP) was thinking when he took this guy on in his first fight at 147 and he got whupped. Chico took this guy lightly and paid the price.)
Friday Apr 17, 2009 08:02:33 AM
Bryan:  Cotto getting stopped??? I have never posted on here before but had to after reading all this crap.. Clottey will not stop Cotto so you can forget about that.. If Cotto isn't prepared I can see Clottey outpointing Cotto but you can forget about a stoppage.. Cotto will train and be just fine and he will look good in this battle and come out victorious.. Better watch out for Clotteys big headbutting head though..
Friday Apr 17, 2009 10:56:28 AM
MisterLee:  sup! as tradition the sweet science... I will prepare the crow... I usually serve it... however, on the Winky card I ate plenty. Bryan, if Cotto wins, I will eat 2 portions of crow... but if Clottey wins... gonna serve ya a plate Bryan. No hate, no hurt feelings, just sticking to my prediction. Clottey will not get hurt, and Cotto has a questionable chin (just ask Chop Chop Corley! and Zab Judah! ). I'm basing my prediction on the fighter's weaknesses, not on their strengths. I'm a bigger fan of Cotto, but Joshua gonna give Cotto a Blood CLOTT come June!!! :)
Friday Apr 17, 2009 11:58:21 AM
swift:  feroz/SOHK - You probably already know by now, but I am a big PW fan, but I have a lot of respect for Cotto, because he's fighting the big fights, so when or lose I have nothing but respect for that guy. This is a very tough fight to predict, on one hand Clottey sometimes falls into a defensive shell for too long and on the other hand I just can't see Cotto actually stopping him, it will probably be a split decision for one of these guys... I just wish one of these guys or Moseley step up and fight PW. And don't give me that he's to tall for the division crap. Do you think Mike Tyson would turn down a fight with the Klitchko Brothers?? No!!
Friday Apr 17, 2009 08:01:59 PM
SchoolOfHardKnocks:  Swift...I'm on the same page as you. I have all the respect in the world for Cotto. But no matter who you are as a fighter the wear and tear will catch up to you. Look at Erik Morales and Marco Antonio Barrera. When they had that first fight, it took so much out of them that they were never the same again. Look at Rafael Marquez and Israel Vasquez. They will never be the same again. I can tell you many more. The 3 fights they had probably took 10-15 fights out of their career. I will be shocked if Cotto is boxing in 3 years. Mosley wouldn't fight PW because the same thing that happen to him when he fought Vernon Forrest would happen even worse against PW. Cotto fighting PW would be a mismatch. PW would end his career.
Friday Apr 17, 2009 10:23:05 PM
RED:  I agree, Clottey is catching Cotto at the right time...Cotto's right time. Folks, this fight is not going to be as close as many people predict it to be. The Margarito fight is a totally misplaced point to call Cotto a victim of wear and tear. As it is now known, the chances that Margarito had any true punching power to hurt Cotto the way he did are almost nil. Clottey will not be fighting with plaster under his wraps. If Cotto brings on the pressure the fight will either be a beating or a snoozer because Clottey will not look to mix it up. As to the comments of Cotto "quitting or wanting to quit", which, incidentally, is what Margarito did against Mosely when he fought "plasterless" (LOL!), said comments are absurd to the point of laughter. Cotto by TKO in thr 9th or 10th or by clear UD.
Saturday Apr 18, 2009 03:07:04 PM
Fe'Roz :  RED, Anything's possible on fight night.....but I'm pretty confident if this fight ends early, it won't be with Cotto finishing. On the other hand, if Clottey doesn't let his hands go, he will have missed his best and possibly only opportunity to fight for serious purses going forward. As for "quitting or wanting to quit".....well, watch the fight. Closely. Between rounds....and in the last round. Unless Cotto thought Margarito was royalty, I can't and won't see any other reason he would take a knee....and bow.
Saturday Apr 18, 2009 08:40:07 PM
SchoolOfHardKnocks:  Red...I'm not defending Margarito but I didn't see him quit in that fight. Was I watching some other channel? I saw him get knocked down and the referee came in to wave it off. Margarito's corner wanted to stop it but he wanted to go back out and go out on his shield. If someone goes out early it won't be Clottey. Cotto definitely won't be hurting Clottey with that right hand. Like Fe'ROZ said, If Clottey doesn't let his hands go he let a golden opportunity get away and he will lose by decision. The only punch that Clottey has to worry about Cotto is his left to the body. If he elminates that it will be an easy night for Clottey because Cotto has 1 hand. Cotto will get hit with uppercuts, right hands and left hooks. No doubt a moment will come when Cotto is hurt. I'm very curious on how he will get out of that. Clottey has never been stopped even with a broken hand
Saturday Apr 18, 2009 10:06:02 PM
MisterLee the "Caveman":  Guys, I"m gonna have to back Cotto up on this one. Plaster or not, Cotto did not fall from a single punch, nor did a single punch knock him senseless that set him up for the knockout. He went down on his own avail, to me, NOT b/c he quit, but b/c he was exhausted. Cotto is used to being the aggressor, and having to backpedal, go side to side and counter and move for 11 rounds took the wind out of him, on top of getting caught every time he hit the ropes for too long. He didn'tknow how to tie up when he was hurt, so he would punch his way out of it and move more when he was hurt. The fact that those punches didn't slow down margarito made it feel like the walls were closing (psychological pressure probably). To top that, PW calls Cotto a "10 round fighter", so with the whole fight dictated on Margarito's pace, Cotto simply fell from tired legs, being caught on the ropes too often, not knowing how to tie up, and having nothing in the gas tank. Look at the last 5 seconds of the fight. Cotto simply backpedaled to the opposite corner b/c he didn't have the energy to stay on his toes and move to the side, he had his hands down b/c he was too tired to hold them up, and he went down the final time without a punch b/c he couldn't defend himself nor fight back. personally i know what it's like when your lungs are on fire and your arms/legs are not listening to your mind. You feel helpless and if you are being outworked it feels like hell!! I'm gonna stand up for Cotto and say most pple in that situation, being the fighter that Cotto is (flaws and strengths) would do the same in that situation. I'm not even faulting the "keyboard" warriors, just like being in a basketball game and in 4th quarter and you're being outworked and some fresh legs doing unlimited fast breaks and pressure defense, takes the fight and wind out of you! Pc!
Sunday Apr 19, 2009 03:30:37 AM
oskar:  I think the wear and tear thing will catch up to you if almost all of your fights you’ve got no defense or what so ever and all you do is took on punishment but if not I guess being an athlete and having a healthy life style your body can recover properly from the beating. So I think Cotto still have plenty of years from boxing and besides look at Manny his 30; he has been into wars and still at the top of his game.
Sunday Apr 19, 2009 06:27:53 AM
Fe'Roz :  Mister Lee, that was one of your best pieces of writing and insights. SOHK, I couldn't agree more. Miquel Cotto, prepare for war. Joshua Clottey: Let your damn hands go. Touch 'em up! pc
Sunday Apr 19, 2009 07:30:22 AM
SchoolOfHardKnocks:  Mister Lee...You are right, Cotto didn't fall from a single punch. Cotto got hit with an accumilation of punches by Margarito. Cotto's spirit and will was broken. That is something that you as a fighter can never get back once it happens because from then on in the back of your mind is doubt. Take Zab Judah, once he was stopped by Tsyzu his career went south. Then when he fought Cotto he had his will and spirit broken when he took a knee. After that look what happen, he tried to quit against Clottey saying that he was head butted.
Sunday Apr 19, 2009 01:43:28 PM
MisterLee:  Mosley Clottey would be a pretty cool matchup, anybody think so? I think mosley may actualy be able to knock out clottey due to his hand speed, and he can bang to the body and to the head with his accurate power punches. and i don't think clottey is fast enough for mosley. i know mosley is waiting on the winner of the pac fight and the winner of the clottey cotto matchup. Too bad scareweather's camp rejected Mosley... is that final, or do they need a tune up fight first, and maybe 2-3 fights down the line he might consider it if mosley is still on top? Mayweather will fight marquez, probably pacman, MAYBE mosley if there's enough reward.. is Marquez the FIRST person mayweather ever fought that's on the top 10 p4p list? What is he waiting for? He should also challenge Ivan Calderon to move up in weight! :) Keep the trend! Maybe evil vic at light weight, or 137lb catchweight! :) pc....
Sunday Apr 19, 2009 03:31:23 PM
SchoolOfHardKnocks:  Floyd was never afraid to fight Mosley, I remember Floyd calling Mosley out and Larry Merchant asked Mosley would he fight Floyd and Mosley clearly said that he was going on vacation. Mosley didn't want to fight Floyd. There's no way in this day that Mosley can beat Floyd. The worse guys for Mosley to fight is someone with speed and his size with great defense. If you remember Cotto outboxed Mosley. Clottey vs Mosley would be a good matchup. I see him giving Mosley problems as well.
Sunday Apr 19, 2009 07:02:09 PM
SchoolOfHardKnocks:  Mister Lee...Zab will never ever be the same. Ricky Hatton made Tsyzu quit, his will was broken. Oskar..Wear and tear is something that you can never take back and it takes years of not fighting for you to get fresh again. The wear and tear has destroyed Israel Vasquez now. He has detached retina's and he is the champion. Even as a champion Vasquez will never be the same. Why do you think that Arturo Gatti started getting stopped in every fight. To much wear and tear.
Sunday Apr 19, 2009 07:03:20 PM
Anony:  Shhhh..... I'm the last comment on this topic and I got a secret for you.... Cotto is going to win this one for sure!!!!!!! And then Mosley again and then Paul Williams in 2010 and then he will retire undefeated cause "Margacheato" loss doesn't count.... ANOTHER SECRET.... What happens when people try to make you look guilty but you are really innocent??? You let everyone know you are not guilty in every forum and every opportunity you get, RIGHT???? Oh well... Wouldn't you agree Margarito has been suspiciously silent about this???? CHEATER!!!! COTTO IS UNDEFEATED!!!!!
Sunday Apr 19, 2009 07:49:18 PM
MisterLee The "Caveman":  Yeah, even tho rafael lost the 2nd and third fight, i still like him more, hes' got more skills as a boxer. Vasqeuz walked thru some hellacious shots and kept walking forward, i feel vasqeuz took the most punishment in the trilogy... am i wrong? Zab the crab.. that guy had so much promise and he just fell apart man. too bad. oh well, looking forward to the next month! :) Pc out!
Sunday Apr 19, 2009 07:56:12 PM
Fe'Roz :  Small correction regarding Zab Judah. SOHK, you are right.....technically. Zab 'tried to quit after saying he got head-butted'. Then he told the ring doctor he couldn't see how many fingers he was holding up. The cut was high along his lower eyebrow. He could see....of that I have no doubt.....but he wanted nothing more to do with Clottey who was busting him up. In effect, he quit. Worse yet, replays clearly showed Zab getting cut by a punch. Max Kellerman kept commenting how Zab was suffering the curse of the gifted: Being the better athlete and fighting well but getting beat by Clottey's technically cleaner, straighter and heavier punches. That is the opponent Cotto will be facing. Expect a long night. pc
Sunday Apr 19, 2009 08:53:54 PM
oskar:  SchoolOfHardKnocks, detached retina is what you call an injury the wear and tear thing in boxing for me is something intangible but can be relative with age rather than by assumption.
Sunday Apr 19, 2009 10:27:36 PM
oskar:  Like I said before I think the wear and tear thing will catch up to you if almost all of your fights you’ve got no defense or what so ever and all you do is took on punishment but if not I guess being an athlete and having a healthy life style your body can recover properly from the beating. Arturo got no defense it wouldn't be a surprise.
Monday Apr 20, 2009 02:54:08 AM
MisterLee:  Man.... Vasquez's eyes after the fight were so bruised up man... anyway.. SOHK, I truly think Mosley lost the fight with Cotto b/c of a few things. He underestimated Cotto's speed, he thought he was the more natural welterweight and would have more power, he thought his speed would be too much (which it wasn't), he didn't have a game plan, he didn't use his jab, and he went right hand crazy (his only strategy). I think this time Shane will go in with a smarter plan. Cotto himself said Mosley was his toughest match pre-Margarito. Anyway, we'll see if mayweather fights him. I have to see the fight with my own eyes, b/c floyd is doing more ducking than a dodgeball game. Marquez is probably the first guy he ever fought on the top 10 p4p list. Who's next, ivan calderon? :)
Monday Apr 20, 2009 05:11:39 AM
MisterLee:  Yo oscar, I think both marquez and vasquez have had plenty of wear and tear, esp from their trilogy, neither of them have stepped in the ring in over a year! also the vasquez gonzalez fight what hellua fight, and vasquez took some shots there too! Pc! Oh yeah, pple, angulo vs. kirkland, who do you like? I like angulo.Pc! :)...
Monday Apr 20, 2009 07:17:23 AM
Fe'Roz :  Master Lee. Let's see how Kirkland looks in June. He is on cotto's undercard. I like this guy's work ethic and come-to-war manner. As for Cotto, he never met an opponent he wasn't willing to mix it up with. You can't fight that way without wear and tear. Read Eddie Futch in Dave Anderson's book: In the Corner. He is so specific about exactly what condition his fighters were in not only for individual fights but in all of their fights/ at all stages of their careers. Some of the best insights into exactly what enjoy analyzing here at the TSS universe. pc
Monday Apr 20, 2009 07:25:30 AM
SchoolOfHardKnocks:  Oskar...No, detached retina's don't come from age. It comes from getting hit too much. Sugar Ray Leonard had a detached retina in his first fight with Tommy Hearns. He sustained in sparring against Odell Hadley who was a 6'2 middleweight. Ray Leonard at that time was in his mid 20's. Aaron Pryor had detached retina's in both eyes, he was young. Larry Holmes had detached retina's. That had nothing to do with getting old. Fighters get hit in sparring pretty good. Fe'Roz., you are right Judah wanted to quit. He was lying about he couldn't see. He knew he was about to get stopped.
Monday Apr 20, 2009 09:31:56 PM
oskar:  SchoolOfHardKnock... I said detached retina is an injury of course from a fight I didn't said he got it from age. What I meant from wear and tear is relative from your age is that you can be more vulnerable if your older and if you've got no defense, all you do is took on punishment.
Monday Apr 20, 2009 10:50:02 PM
oskar:  MisterLee... Marquez and Vasquez got injured badly it's sensible to let them recover from it and besides they've got doctors who will advice them when they can fight again don't they're both still young they will fight again.
Monday Apr 20, 2009 10:59:07 PM

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