|
 |
|
| Jones' late career slide doesn't diminish his legacy, the writer says. You agree, TSSers? |
|
|
|
| |
 |
|
|
 |
It's Time To Hang Up The Gloves, Roy
By Dan Horgan
It’s time for Roy Jones Jr. to hang up the gloves.
After being thoroughly out-boxed, outhustled, and out-skilled by Wales’ Joe Calzaghe on November 8th, the 38-year-old Jones would be crazy to continue his fight career, which has probably lasted five years too long. Jones was great, perhaps the greatest, but he’s now a shell of his former self. Fighting on any longer would be an embarrassment to his name.
It’s a shame that Jones’ career had to end this way. He could have retired after moving up to heavyweight to win John Ruiz’s portion of the heavyweight title in 2003. He could have called it quits after edging Antonio Tarver in a historic move down to capture the light-heavyweight championship just eight months after the Ruiz win. And he could have taken a different route than fighting Tarver in a rematch – a route that wouldn’t have left him knocked silly in consecutive fights.
But instead, Jones let what made him great, pride, get in the way of emphatically capping off one of the most exciting careers in sports history. He carried on, lost to Tarver in the rematch, and refused to admit that his reflexes had diminished to the point where he couldn’t bang with the world’s best. Jones lost four of his last seven fights convincingly; in the fifteen preceding years and fifty preceding fights, he had lost only once, and the defeat was via questionable disqualification.
Jones’ legacy after beating Tarver was secure. He was a five-time champion in four weight divisions. He had avenged his only career loss with a first-round knockout. He was “Mr. Unstoppable,” “RJ,” and “pound-for-pound the baddest.” But his ego refused to let him walk away. Tarver had given Jones all he could handle in the pair’s first encounter, and Jones felt the need to punish the fellow Florida native for the close fight. And that’s when everything came tumbling down – Jones’ perfect resume became blemished.
Pundits of today and tomorrow will undoubtedly argue Jones’ merit as an all-time great. He’s a sure-lock Hall of Famer, but writers and fans have yet to come to a consensus on Jones’ status amongst all-time pound-for-pound lists. The biggest question that will be debated is if Jones’ latest four losses are indicative of what would have happened had he faced better opponents in his prime.
My personal view is that the past four years of Jones’ career do not reflect his prime-years greatness, nor should they affect his legacy. Athletes cannot be held responsible for getting old.
Jones, many experts argue, would have been beaten by Tarver and Calzaghe, fighters of a class Jones rarely fought throughout his career, in his prime. But basing those assumptions on Jones’ recent fights against the two southpaws is ludicrous. Jones’ success in the ring has always been based on his extraordinary reflexes. His ability to duck a punch and counter with lightning-fast hands always allowed him to handle bigger and stronger opponents with ease. But those reflexes, which clearly diminished with Jones’ age, were long-gone when he shared the ring with Tarver and Calzaghe. The old Jones was a far different fighter than the prime Jones, and the old Jones was the one who Tarver and Calzaghe got to beat up on.
If anything, Jones’ first fight against Tarver should be the most efficient gauge as to how he would have handled Tarver in his prime. In that bout, Jones – who had to lose over ten pounds of muscle in a matter of weeks as he moved from heavyweight to light-heavyweight – dug down deep to squeak out a decision, and the dynamic physical gifts that once made him so special were no longer there. If a 34-year old, muscle-depleted Jones could have taken Tarver, then his 32-year-old self, equipped with faster hands and better defensive maneuvers, would have destroyed “The Magic Man.”
Whether or not a prime Jones would have beaten Calzaghe is debatable, but the Jones who fought Calzaghe on Saturday was the worst Jones the boxing public has ever seen. Jones’ other mega fights, against Bernard Hopkins, James Toney, and John Ruiz, are far better indicators of his greatness than the Calzaghe loss because Jones was at his best when he fought them.
My hope is that Jones will walk away from boxing with his head held high. To lose to a rival in a farewell bout is hard to swallow, but what Jones accomplished in the ring in his first 50 fights far overshadows the bad that happened in his last seven.
It’s time for Jones to hang up the gloves. But he can retire knowing that he was one of the best to ever put them on.
|
Sacres:
|
Very well put. Jones can hold his head high and walk away. A legend. Respect
Sunday Nov 16, 2008 06:42:14 PM
|
|
Jones-Calzaghe did 225,000 on PPV...A BUST!:
|
I just read that the returns are in for the PPV numbers, and they were wretched. HBO forecasted 500,000+. Instead, they did 225,000! When are they going to wake up and smell the coffee. Another PPV bust. When will HBO and the rest of the PPV proponents going to change their very broken model. Should Jones retire? Yes. He should have retire after the Ruiz fight, and certainly after the 1st Tarver fight.
Monday Nov 17, 2008 09:41:50 AM
|
|
Jimbo:
|
I proudly purchased neither the Hopkins - Pavlik fight (190k buys) nor the Jones - Calzaghe fight (225k buys). Both of these fights should have been on regular HBO. Period.
Monday Nov 17, 2008 09:46:27 AM
|
|
Robert Curtis:
|
This reads like an obituary. Who is the author or anybody to call time on Jones's career? It's funny how Jones loses a decision at 39 and everyone is digging his grave. But because B-Hop wins at 43+, we get a string of articles about how warm and fuzzy and fantastic he is. That's the dark side of human nature, I guess. We stomp losers and overpraise winners. Anyway, it's obvious Roy can no longer fight on a championship level or draw champion-size purses. But if he still wants to get in there and bang, that's up to him. If it were me, I'd find a hobby and spend more time with family and friends. But that's easy for me to say. I don't have that big bad fighter's heart beating inside me. Whatever Roy decides to do, that's his business and I wish him the best.
Monday Nov 17, 2008 09:56:54 AM
|
|
Sally Ann:
|
Roy should continue to fight, if he wants to die in the ring. He couldn't win a club championship right now. He'd get knocked senseless by any top-100 light heavyweight at this point. It's time to hang 'em up...
Monday Nov 17, 2008 10:07:48 AM
|
|
d:
|
roy jones jr in his prime was the best boxer athlete i have seen ever.
Monday Nov 17, 2008 10:43:39 AM
|
|
Big Daddy:
|
I have to disagree with you RC, if anything Horgan is too forgiving with RJ. I was huge RJ fan early in his career, but then came one Mis-Mandatory after another just to milk the fans and that precious HBO contract ( PBF's Career Blueprint).Instead of fighting Benn, Calzaghe, Michalzewski, Collins, McClellan, Hopkins rematch, etc. when he was in his "Prime' , he chose to ALWAYS take the easier path. Telesco, Hall, Kelly, etc. and of course Cherry-Pickin' one of the All-Time most Putrid HW Champs.. John "Huggy Bear" Ruiz . Who managed to almost make History twice, by also losing his Paper Title to another former MW Champ James Toney ( Toney was DQ'ed after the fight for Roids). Although, I would still like to see a rematch with Hopkins ( Just not on PPV)
Monday Nov 17, 2008 10:44:32 AM
|
|
Enice:
|
Jones is a legend and always will be. The thing i thnk affected hm mostly after those two knockout loses was his mental. After those 2 loses mentally i think he wasnt there, he lost his confidence to exhibit his unbelievable offense ability and became this defensive pop shotter of a fighter. There is no fighter to this day that was able to do what jones did in his prime..much respect RJJ
Monday Nov 17, 2008 11:23:37 AM
|
|
Troy:
|
Big Daddy, I disagree with you about RJJ's oponents. He CLEANED out the light heavyweight division. As A Champ, you are suppossed to fight mandatories and up commers. It's not his fault that some of these fighters were not on his leavel. No one was on his leavel. Remeber, Calzage and Mickelchesce (spelling) did not want to come to America to fight. McClelland was his friend and damaged after the Benn fight, and Benn was not on his level at the time. It's funny that RJJ beat more hall of famers than Toney, Hopkins, Calzage, and Tarver, but he is criticized for his oponents.
Monday Nov 17, 2008 11:26:10 AM
|
|
paulbo:
|
Jones is clearly one of the great pound-for-pound fighters in history. For that he deserves the hall of fame. What bothers me is that he never made the most of his extraordinary ability. Blessed with hand speed we may never see again, the guy had it in him to supplant Ray Robinson as the greatest ever. Unfortunately, he became arrogant and never developed the boxing skill that would have allowed him to extend his career successfully after his speed faded. Just look at Bernard Hopkins; here's a guy who learned his craft to such an extent that he can still compete at the top level, even in his 40s!! Roy's arrogance led him to believe that his speed could continue forever. If you're as far above the competition as Roy was in his prime, why break a sweat by learning the slick moves of a master boxer? I suspect this was Roy's thinking. And it's a shame. Despite his hall-of-fame career, I still have to think of it as a failure.
Monday Nov 17, 2008 11:28:25 AM
|
|
Shep Proudfoot:
|
I see no reason for him to retire. Roy is now a natural heavyweight, and that's where he should be campaigning. His speed, reflexes, and chin will all return when he optimizes his body and fights at 210-215. Look at Chris Byrd. He drained himself and was on queer street after taking a jab from a LH. But at heavyweight, the guy took hundreds of shots from Klitschko no problem. Jones could easily pick up a strap at heavyweight. He could potentially run circles around either Klitschko and pitter-pat his way to a decision win. He ought to fight a Sam Peter type guy to see exactly where he is. But NO, he should NOT retire, he should fight at heavyweight.
Monday Nov 17, 2008 11:50:35 AM
|
|
Radam G aka Humble PRG getting ready to check out Media Day PacMan:
|
Bobby C is spot on. No one should be buried before his time. Nobody is going to die RJJ's death, so no one should dictate or try to live his life. It is him who is taking the beatdowns, and it is he who won all of those crowns. I say that one-foot-in-the-grave RJJ should become a five-division belt holder by moving up to the pseudodivision of cruiserweight. He can probably cruise over those pretenders, except for the USS Cunningham. Cunningham is the only one who would have kryptonite for the Superman -- or is he now the Duperman? Whatever, let dude keep trying to leap in a single bounce. Ought, I musta fo'got! It is now about 50 bounces. Holla!
Monday Nov 17, 2008 11:57:52 AM
|
|
perry:
|
why should he retire roy lost a decision to slappy joe thats all...he had slappy joe on the floor in the 1st round and had he chosen to pounce would have had slappy joe out of there by 1st round ko...he lost 8 rounds to 4 with a knockdown in the 1st round making it 10-8...i think roy jones beats calzaghe in the rematch...theres a rematch clause so lets hope it happens and roy deals joe his first loss...shouldve already but decided to play safe in the 1st bad mistake because he would have won by ko.
Monday Nov 17, 2008 12:04:28 PM
|
|
rudy:
|
I'm w/the G Man and RC, be quiet and enough already. Give it up for Roy an all time great, give him his due. Big Daddy, same $h!t could be said about Calzaghe and his creme puffed filled resume. Roy should have a farewell fight and then replace Lewis on HBO telecasts.
Monday Nov 17, 2008 12:20:32 PM
|
|
SchoolOfHardKnocks in phoenix chillin with lil hands of stone Michael carbajal:
|
Roy should be able to fight again but never ever on PPV again. He is not on that level anymore.
Monday Nov 17, 2008 12:31:38 PM
|
|
Chillin' at the topless club on a Monday afternoon in RI with my boy Vinny Paz!:
|
Hell no he shouldn't retire!
Monday Nov 17, 2008 12:42:21 PM
|
|
REAL TALK:
|
Roy should fight Hopkins on HBO . He needs to work on his footwork . His legs looked weak from the start . Oh and definatly upgrade his corner . Peace
Monday Nov 17, 2008 01:48:30 PM
|
|
Big Daddy:
|
No Doubt.. RJ was an All-Time Talent. But, he was also an All-Time waste of talent. As Paulbo points out, he never took it to the next level. Reluctant Roy NEVER fought outside the US unlike REAL All-Time Greats Hagler, Leonerd, Ali, Tyson, Robison, etc. Not to mention all of the international fighters that left their Countries to fight in the US. I know Roy and his fans like to use the Korean Olympics as an excuse (Crutch), but he could've easily insisted upon American Judges and Referees.
Monday Nov 17, 2008 02:08:22 PM
|
|
Don't Do It:
|
There goes School of Hard Knocks sniffing glue again.
Monday Nov 17, 2008 03:03:32 PM
|
|
Peter Egley:
|
The dreaded sad open letter to the champ storyline. It makes me think of the sad reporter watchin' Joe on TV sadly, in "The Joe Louis Story."
Monday Nov 17, 2008 03:44:51 PM
|
|
stryder:
|
It's sad to see him go, but he needs too. I wish he would have retired after the first fight with Tarver, but he is human. I for one am proud to say that I got to watch him in his prime. Thanks for all the memories Roy!
Monday Nov 17, 2008 09:36:58 PM
|
|
feedthecat:
|
I agree that RJ should call it quits and have thought so since his second loss to Tarver, after which he pathetically proclaimed himself happy to have gone the distance with Antonio. Imagine, a fighter who just a few years earlier had been widely viewed as the best pound-for-pound in the world seeming pleased to have made it to the final gong against Antonio Tarver, who doesn't even rank among the top 50 light-heavies of all time! Then again, while Jones undoubtedly possessed great athleticism (in his prime) and was certainly a great fighter, he was nonetheless overrated. It's funny, but all of the people who were surprised at his being kayoed by Tarver and Glen Johnson in back-to-back fights invariably blamed his suddenly poor whiskers on his struggle to get his weight back under 175 lbs after his bout with heavyweight tomato can John Ruiz, when the fact of the matter is that Jones never was blessed with a great chin, which was clearly illustrated when Lou Del Valle, who doesn't rate among the top 60 or 70 light-heavyweight punchers in history, buckled RJ's knees in sending him down for the first time in his career. Anyone who got put on queer street by good-but-far-from-great hitters Tarver, Johnson, and Del Valle certainly cannot be ranked an all time top ten light-heavy, a division that boasts such great punchers as Sam Langford, Bob Foster, Archie Moore, Joe Choynski, Bob Satterfield, etc, etc (one should also consider that back in the day, light-heavies used to do battle shorn with six ounce, horsehair-filled gloves that became waterlogged within a few rounds - as opposed to the ten ounce, foam-filled water-resistant gloves used in recent years - so it's even more unlikely that Jones would have survived against the division's top hitters if they battled under the rules of the day). In any event, when a fighter doesn't commit to his punches as Jones didn't against Calzaghe (if you watched the fight carefully, you'll have seen that Roy was often already thinking of pulling back and protecting himself while he was in the process of punching), it's definitely time to hang 'em up ( the RJ of old [as oppsed to the old RJ] would have been hammering Calzaghe all night long with vicious left hook counters and right cross pot shots, and romped to an easy victory).
As for Calzaghe, victories over bums like Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler and over-the-hill, safety-first millers like Hopkins and Jones do little for one's legacy, especially when most of that legacy was built on fighting in and winning the 'title' of a bastard, ersatz division like super middleweight. If Calzaghe is really sincere about being taken seriously, he should fight Johnson and Chad Dawson in his next two bouts. Still, there's very little he can do to lift his ranking among Britain's all time pound-for-pound best up to the likes of Jimmy Wilde, Jem Driscoll, et al because he simply hasn't faced the level of competition that they did and he never will. Furthermore, given the fragility of his hands, he wouldn't have been very effective fighting under the rules of the past, and that should be considered when determining a fighter's all time standing (i.e. would the fighter in question have been effective and successful in all gloved boxing eras?).
Tuesday Nov 18, 2008 12:32:41 AM
|
|
Real Talk :
|
Man .....all these people in here writing Roy off because he lost to a very special fighter !??! I watched the fight at the gym today and I don't think Roy is shot physically . He just got nuetralized . It seems his confidence is shook . Don't start me lying but I'm scratching my head about why he came in the ring so dry ??? Maybe L. heavy takes too much out of him . He didn't seam to have any bounce in his legs to me . He looked drained like he had no energy . Puzzling to say the least . He should fight at least one more time , like a heat check . If he can't get any bunnies in his legs he should take a hard look at himself . I think B-hop would crush him now simply because B- Hop is mentally tough and Roy mentally fragile . Peace
Tuesday Nov 18, 2008 12:54:44 AM
|
|
Fistic Fury:
|
Roy should retire with his head held high, proud as punch and safe in the knowledge that he was an all time great. FACT! Fighters who lose late in their careers should not lose any prestige in their legacy which is why I still hold the likes of Tyson in high regard. If you do go Roy, THANKYOU FOR THE MEMORIES.
Tuesday Nov 18, 2008 03:43:10 AM
|
|
SchoolOfHardKnocks:
|
REALTALK..I agree Roy lost to a special fighter. His confidence is not there because he doesn't have the heart to face up to someone who is there to win it all. Once you have been knocked out like Roy has it's always in the back of his mind. Roy talks it but he doesn't walk it. In one of the 24/7 shows he said that JC would have to kill him and he would knockout JC. He didn't fight like that did he. You mentioned his legs, now they are shot. The first thing to go in an older fighter is his legs. He will bounce for about 15 seconds and then start sitting down. I don't know if Roy would lose to B-Hop because B-Hop's worse nightmare is speed and Roy is still faster then him
Tuesday Nov 18, 2008 10:30:06 AM
|
|
Rodney:
|
If Roy is going to continue -and he will, let's not fool ourselves- it should be at heavyweight. He was drained and bone-dry against Clazaghe. At light heavyweight, he has no speed, no reflexes, no power, and no ability to take a punch. He's currently a top 75 light heavyweight, at best. Glen Johnson and Chad Dawson would have him out of there within 3 rounds. Roy should fight at his natural weight, which will restore his powers. His fighting weight should be 210. At that, he can win decisions against some of the big boys.
Tuesday Nov 18, 2008 10:38:01 AM
|
|
Javier:
|
The end of the clown carrer.
Wednesday Nov 19, 2008 06:59:37 PM
|
|
REAL TALK:
|
Bernards legs are still good. He'd whoop Roy Bad, give him them angles . Peace
Thursday Nov 20, 2008 01:59:30 AM
|
|
mike:
|
Calzaghe wouldn't have beaten him five years ago. Meanwhile, the International Olympic Commitee would finaly want to give him he gold medal he won at the 1988 Games - the Korean he beat, his head is only after fully clearing now after the thrashing Jones gave him, but he got gold,
Jones silver, one of the darkest stains on the history of the Olympic Games. Give him his gold IOC, with a written apology.
Thursday Nov 20, 2008 06:41:39 AM
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
2009 Reader Of The Year Weighs In On Legacies Of Pacquiao And Mayweather
"Pacquiao has proven....in the ring... time and time again that he is the greatest of this time. He has earned his respect. He begs for nothing. He is a man content with his growth, his family and his achievements. A man the world has now turned it's eyes to behold. Floyd Mayweather is not even close in stature. He may possess the greatest skills but he is not the Face of Boxing today. Google Manny Pacquiao. There are 20 million searches. Google Floyd. There are 6.5 million. Look at the NYTimes, the Wall Street Journal and Time. Count how many words were used these past years to mention Floyd Mayweather. Then count the words still being printed about Manny. And keep counting. As I've said many times, Floyd has been too clever by half. He has short changed his public.....and has out-smarted himself. Manny will fight but a few more times. Enjoy it while you can. He is an all time great pugilist. Floyd, with all of his remarkable skills lack the will to be truly great in the biggest sense of the word. His legacy will look more like Holmes that Ali. He has earned it." ---November is half-way gone, but we don't need to keep counting ballots. It's a landslide. Fe'Roz has won the 2009 Reader of the Year award. His comments add to the website immeasurably, and he epitomizes the thoughtful, respectful, educated fan of pugilism we strive to cater to at TSS. Congrats, Fe'Roz, and please accept my thanks for being the valued member of this community that you are. Sincerely, Editor Mike
|
|
|
|
|