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Monday May 12, 2008

Who will leave a bigger footprint in the eyes of future generations: The Golden Boy or the second Sugar Ray?

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Fantasy Faceoff: Oscar vs. Sugar Ray Leonard

By John Nguyen

For two fighters from two different eras, Sugar Ray Leonard and Oscar De La Hoya sure have drawn a lot of comparisons with each other.  And for good reason.  In a sport as violent as boxing, making a prizefighter into a truly marketable figure can be a tough sell.  On occasion, though, a boxer is able to overcome the negative stereotypes surrounding the sport by virtue of charisma, shrewd business sense, and wise handlers guiding their every step.   

Leonard and De La Hoya were two such fighters.  Both fighters' careers followed remarkably similar paths early on, which led to the same destination:  superstardom beyond the ring ropes.   

But this scenario begs the question, which fighter casts the bigger shadow?  It's a difficult question to be sure, particularly since De La Hoya's career is still ongoing.  Still, it's a worthy debate.  If the boxing world as we know it came crashing down tomorrow, whose legacy would better stand the test of time? 

The Case for Leonard: 

From the moment of his emergence on the international stage at the 1976 Olympic Games in Montreal, Ray Leonard radiated with star quality.  It was easy to see then that he was the complete package.  With his girlfriend's picture taped to his shoe as he boxed in the Olympic final against favored Cuban Andres Aldama, Leonard set himself apart as one of the captivating human interest stories of the Games.  His improbable victory to claim the gold medal made his star shine that much more. 

After retiring following his Olympic glory (the first of several retirements as it would turn out), Leonard's professional career exhibited all the promise indicated in his amateur days.  With legendary trainer Angelo Dundee at the helm, Leonard progressed through the ranks at an accelerated pace to defeat Wilfred Benitez for his first world title less than three years after his pro debut. 

Leonard's career continued on like a Hollywood screenplay.  After losing a tough decision to fellow great Roberto Duran, Leonard returned five months later to frustrate Duran into quitting.   

Less than a year later, Leonard found himself across the ring from the seemingly invincible Thomas Hearns.  In the unexpected and unfamiliar position of being thoroughly outboxed, Leonard rallied to stop an exhausted Hearns in the fourteenth round of a fight for the ages. 

Nagging injuries due to complications from a detached retina stalled Leonard's career until he came out of retirement in 1987 to fight middleweight champion Marvin Hagler.  Leonard's flashy combinations were enough to gain him a highly controversial split decision over a disgusted Hagler. 

In the end, Leonard's career was defined by wins over the best fighters of his era.  Of course these wins helped his bank account, as he became the first boxer to accumulate $100 million in earnings, along with countless endorsement deals. 

Another impressive statistic is how brief Ray Leonard's prime really was.  Of his 40 career fights, 33 of them took place in the first five years of his professional career, with the remaining seven scattered over the next fifteen years.  That relatively brief time in the sun was still enough to make Leonard one of the game's immortals and a permanent household name. 

The Case Against Leonard: 

Upon closer examination, Leonard's sterling career shines brightest only in the correct lighting.  His accomplished record of 36-3-1 (25) seems a little dingier when we go beyond the numbers.   

In what was perhaps his greatest victory against Thomas Hearns, Leonard didn't offer the courtesy that he received against Roberto Duran by giving Hearns an immediate rematch.    This could be blamed in part on the detached retina that surfaced shortly after the win over Hearns, but it also seems that it came out of sheer reluctance on Leonard's part to step back in the ring against a man who had put him through hell. 

The rematch had to wait eight long years, when both men were past their primes.  Even then, Leonard was dropped twice and was lucky to escape with a draw. 

Against Marvin Hagler, Leonard won the fight more so with gamesmanship than grit.  His round-stealing flurries won many rounds which could have gone to Hagler for his steady aggression.  The mere discussion of this fight will cause more arguments than any big fight of the last thirty years.  The win over Hagler was far from clear-cut, and along with the draw against Hearns, could conceivably be seen as a blemish on Leonard's record. 

Beyond the two fights Leonard could have lost, it's worth discussing two that he actually did lose.  His ill-advised comeback in 1991 against a prime Terry Norris saw Leonard take perhaps the worst beating of his career as he was dominated by a fresher, stronger fighter. 

The Norris debacle should have been a signal to Leonard that his time was up, but the loss was certainly forgivable, especially considering Norris' long tenure atop the division following the fight.  However, Leonard's 1997 comeback against Hector Camacho, Sr. was simply foolhardy.  Then forty (going on forty-one), Leonard was embarrassed and stopped by the smaller, light-hitting, Camacho, who was also past his prime. 

That his last two fights were two convincing losses as a result of two risky comebacks can only be seen as blemishes to Leonard's legacy.  And considering his close calls against both Hearns and Hagler, Leonard's apparent supremacy during his era doesn't quite hold up as strongly as it might seem. 

The Case for De La Hoya: 

Oscar De La Hoya's time in the public eye began in a manner extremely similar to Leonard's.  At the 1992 Barcelona Olympics, De La Hoya did the unexpected in claiming the only boxing gold medal for the United States, this after coming to terms with the loss of his beloved mother Cecelia to cancer.  It didn't take a genius to see the star potential in De La Hoya, with his matinée idol looks and well-spoken charm. 

Like Leonard, De La Hoya's professional career began with much celebration and fanfare.  De La Hoya was already headlining nationally televised fight cards by his third pro fight.  In his twelfth fight, and after less than sixteen months as a professional, he found himself in his first title fight. 

This was just a warm-up for The Golden Boy, as big names soon began to pile up on his record.  Before long, he owned wins over Rafael Ruelas, Genaro Hernandez, Miguel Angel Gonzales, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Hector Camacho (ironically following his stoppage of Leonard), and Ike Quartey.  Keep in mind that this was all by the time he turned twenty-six. 

By this time, the Oscar De La Hoya express had long left the station.  He was so popular in the fight mecca of Las Vegas that it became his home away from home.  Oscar's broad appeal made fight fans outside of boxing's typical target market.  While it may have once seemed impossible, De La Hoya's star seemed to have superseded Leonard's. 

The fact that De La Hoya suffered a handful of defeats in recent years has done absolutely nothing to adversely affect his earning power.  His most recent effort, a dominant if uninspiring performance against Steve Forbes, was enough to sell out a 27,000 seat outdoor soccer venue.  Some say that a fighter's punch is the last thing to leave him.  That's not true.  A famous name will last even longer. 

The Case Against De La Hoya: 

While Leonard's career was defined by victories, controversial or not, over the era's best fighters, De La Hoya's career may end up being defined by losses to this generation's best.  His slightly less-than-glittering 39-5 (30) record is indicative of such. 

Sure, his loss to Felix Trinidad was questionable at best and a travesty at worst, but De La Hoya can only point the finger at himself for the defeat.  After fighting arguably the best eight rounds of his career, De La Hoya traded glory for track spikes as he raced around the ring for the final four rounds.  Trinidad may have been the recipient of charity, but it was De La Hoya who was in the giving mood. 

His second defeat was a legitimate one at the hands of Shane Mosley.  In that encounter, De La Hoya was simply outhustled and outfought.  The loss in the rematch to Mosley, however, falls in the same category as the Trinidad fight:  questionable.  Again, though, the loss in the Mosley rematch came as the result of another late-round fade by Oscar. 

His next loss came in a bad decision to fight long-standing middleweight kingpin Bernard Hopkins.  Though he hung with Hopkins early, flash and class weren't enough to beat the naturally bigger man. 

His most recent loss against Floyd Mayweather was a respectable performance, though Oscar once again did just enough to lose a close fight.  Once again, a noticeable slowdown late in the fight seemed to be the difference. 

On the surface, though he has five losses, three of them are open to discussion.  But even if we are charitable to Oscar in his losses, some of his victories are also open to the same scrutiny as his losses. 

His win over Pernell Whitaker, though wide on the judges' scorecards, was hardly a wipeout if objectively witnessed as it took place.  The disturbingly wide margins had many people wondering if homecooking was to blame, especially since more than a few observers scored it a draw or even a close nod for Whitaker. 

Oscar's split decision over Ike Quartey seemed well-earned after the phenomenal twelfth round he put forth, dropping and nearly stopping the undefeated Ghanaian.  What people don't remember, however, are the long stretches in the middle rounds when Quartey seemed to be dominating De La Hoya, including a sixth round when the fighters exchanged knockdowns, but Quartey seemed to do the greater damage.   

Then there was the Felix Sturm incident, when a spongy, out of shape De La Hoya fought like hell to earn a hotly disputed decision over the unbeaten, but unknown Sturm. 

Suddenly it seems like Oscar should be happy with the five losses on his record. 

The upside for Oscar is that a win in September against pound-for-pound king Floyd Mayweather could give his legacy one last boost before he calls it a day.  However, it's difficult to imagine that one win against a great fighter in his prime could undo losses in five other significant fights. 
 

It's a tough debate.  Here we have two great fighters who have transcended the sport to become crossover superstars.  That's a rare feat for any athlete, much less a professional fighter.  One man is already enshrined in the Hall of Fame, and the other surely has his place awaiting him.   

But the question remains, TSS Universe, which fighter casts the bigger shadow?  Who will be remembered for generations down the line as the better man?  Weigh in with what you think, is it Sugar Ray or The Golden Boy?



rudy:  Its a close call, but I would say considering the current state of boxing in this day and age it is De La Hoya.
Monday May 12, 2008
Clay:  Not even close.....SRL....There is no way a prime Leonard 147 would lose to a prime DeLaHoya 147. Leonard by an easy15 round unanimous decision.
Monday May 12, 2008
Nuckle:  With that being said Sugar will be remembered as the greater fighter hands down. Sugar would also win if they fought in their primes. Its hard to say who would be remembered longer as far as celebrity. I say remembered equally.
Monday May 12, 2008
Rashad:  I would go with Oscar since he's consistently fought the better opposition and he's been in more exciting fights. Plus Ray Leonard had to share being a 1980's boxing icon with Hagler, Hearns, and Duran. Oscar has been a boxing icon all by himself in the late 90s into this new decade. The only other famous icon in Oscar's time is Roy Jones Jr. Plus I'm positive Oscar will go out on a winning note in that last fight after the Floyd fight since I think he'll face somebody he should beat since people are bringing up Pacman and Hatton.
Monday May 12, 2008
Rashad:  I would go with Oscar since he's consistently fought the better opposition and he's been in more exciting fights. Plus Ray Leonard had to share being a 1980's boxing icon with Hagler, Hearns, and Duran. Oscar has been a boxing icon all by himself in the late 90s into this new decade. The only other famous icon in Oscar's time is Roy Jones Jr. Plus I'm positive Oscar will go out on a winning note in that last fight after the Floyd fight since I think he'll face somebody he should beat since people are bringing up Pacman and Hatton.
Monday May 12, 2008
BIGFREDO76:  Rudy you right.His appeal is unequaled.i posted a comment from a previous articule saying DeLahoya just has to much draw hater and non-haters,and just the casual fan.Im old enough to have witnessed some of Sugar Rays fights and appeal wise ODH got him.but thats just me.ODH is the lottery ticket every fighter wishes to cash.
Monday May 12, 2008
1:  "Sugar" Ray Leonard is on the short list of all-time greats. In their respective primes, Leonard would have overwhelmed Oscar, regardless of what weight they would have agreed to clash at.
Monday May 12, 2008
Steve:  Oscar would cast the bigger shadow out of the ring in the ring its Ray!!! Sugar Ray!!!!! Always fought the best in their prime, and Title fights were 15 rounds back then much tuffer than 12 round of today,Though Oscar fought alot of great fighters but always it seemed at the end their careers and everthing was stacked in his favor.
Monday May 12, 2008
adel:  I don't send e-mails but i just have to make an exception in this one. You write well, and I am absolutely impressed. "Trinidad may have been the recipient of charity but it was De la HOya who was in the giving mood". How could you ever thought of that line? You're a genius man. It was a good read. thank you
Monday May 12, 2008
donputo69:  no question i have to go with de la hoya..but not by much...my fantasy pick will go like this..de la hoya 114-113..sugar ray will score a knockdown late in the 12 round..but its not enough..holla back..
Monday May 12, 2008
Radam G:  There would be a lot of viables involved in a bout between a prime Golden Boy and a prime Sugar Ray Leonard. The most important viable is that Leonard had a Dundee. With the inspiration and slick cornermanship (if that is a word) of Dundee, Leonard would have stopped Dela Hoya in the 12th round -- or in the 13th in a 15-round bout. This bout would've been similar to Leonard-Hearns I. Golden Boy would have been winning the early rounds. But then, Dundee saying, "You are blowing it, son to Leonard! Would have spelled the meltdown of the Golden Boy. Holla!
Monday May 12, 2008
Jonald:  I like Leonard in this comparison by a wide unanimous decision. Oscar's best wins were against Pernell Whitaker and Ike Quartey. He fought and beat several very good and admirable fighters, and some great fighters, but the latter were generally past their respective primes when they met (i.e. Chavez, Camacho (though I'm stretching it a bit referring to Camacho as great)). Conversely, Leonard beat a prime Wilfred Benitez, a prime Roberto Duran, and a prime Thomas Hearns, all bona fide Hall of Famer's. I don't think Oscar beats the early 80's version of that trio. And Leonard did what De La Hoya tried and failed to do: Win the middleweight title. Sure, it's a disputed decision (I had Hagler winning, but readily acknowledge the case for SRL), but in 100 years, if the earth and boxing still exist, history will state simply that Leonard won a decision against the great Hagler to claim the title that spring night in 1987. And last, I think that the Leonard of 1987 would have CLEARLY beaten the Hopkins of 2004. Bernard's 12 punches per round would have never carried a decision against Leonard, and of those 12 punches a round, maybe 1 would land. Unlike what transpired on 4/6/87, that is a decision that would not be disputed.
Monday May 12, 2008
jon b:  what a stupid ass question. Leonard has beaten hearns, hagler, & duran. Compare that with goldies career. I cant believe i even answered the question. Leonard would annihilate oscar.
Monday May 12, 2008
DaveB:  I would pick Sugar Ray. He fought Duran, Hearns, and Benitez whom had a record of only one loss between them and stopped all of them (although Duran really quit). The Hagler win may have been questionable but Hagler is one of the greatest middleweights ever and Leonard was coming off one of his retirements. I didn't think that fight would go over two or three rounds with Leonard getting crushed. It didn't happen. What would Hagler have done to Oscar if Hopkins was able to stop him? Leonard had such fast hands and lateral movement. Leonard would have beaten every fighter Oscar beat only worse. Could Oscar have beaten every fighter Leonard beat?
Monday May 12, 2008
Mark Giolli:  Sugar Ray Leonard is much better than Oscar DeLaHoya. I am not sure why these two are even compared. A better comparison would be Ray Leonard vs. Hopkins, who was more dominant than Oscar and won all his title fights at middleweight except for his loss against the great Roy Jones. Jr.. Oscar is a guy who has lost all his big fights. How can he compare to Sugar Ray Leonard who beat Duran,Hearns,Benitez and Hagler. As a matter of fact, the Hagler fight for Ray was synonymous with Oscar's fight with Hopkins. Oscar was the younger guy there with Hopkins and fought near that weight for years, and he was still knocked out with a body shot. So in my mind Ray wins this comparison easily. I am not sure why so many people pick Oscar. Maybe alot of younger people are making comments here who do not remember Ray and how good he was. Oscar in my mind is Hall of Fame, but hardly all time great.
Monday May 12, 2008
Radam G:  I doubt that Golden Boy will tangle with Pretty Boy come September. The hurt business grapevine is spoutting that Oscar has a fractured right orbit. I am not surprised a least bit. Mayweather lite -- Forbes -- did some severe damage. Good! Because Mayweather organic -- Money May in the flesh, the full package -- would destroy a 147-pound De la Hoya, and embarrass the wannabe greatest trainer "of all times," "present times," "any times" Mayweather Sr. Holla! P.S. A prime DLH would not have been able to beat any of the following in their prime: Donald Curry, Tommy Hearns, Milton McCrory, Wilfred Benetiz or a Roberto Duran.
Monday May 12, 2008
andy from newcastle:  Tough one. If I was forced to chose between SRL and DLH, I'd pick Tommy Hearns. Compare his record to either of the two biggest celebrity superstars of the squared circle since Ali. He fought professionally (with breaks, granted) for nearly thirty years. He won seven World Championships in six different weight classes (he was the first man to be a champion at four, five, and then six weight classes), from welterweight to cruiserweight. 30 of his first 32 professional wins came by KO (he lost his 33rd fight to SRL, but in most opinions was winning until he ran out of gas in the later rounds - as mentioned in the article, he was refused a rematch until years later, and then was robbed with a draw). He also beat Benitez to win the junior middleweight title. He pounded Duran in two rounds, (SRL lost his first meeting with Duran and then Duran had a very unmacho breakdown in their second meeting as we all know). His third round loss to Hagler is probably one of the most explosive three rounds we'll ever see, either fighter could have lost. He handed the very talented Virgil Hill his first loss to win the light heavy title (by this time he was in his thirties. SRL was shot completely at 35, I remember that hammering he got off Terry Norris). At age 40, George Foreman territory, he won the cruiserweight championship (okay IBO, but who cares, this is Masters golf here). He then had a wee break (probably taught himself latin and spanish guitar) and came back at age 47 to win another couple of fights, and finish with a record of 60-5-1 with 47 KO, which makes SRL 36-3-1 (25) seem quite average. The Motor City Cobra may not have been sprinkled with gold dust like Ray and Oscar (don't get me wrong, they are both great, DLH is one of my three favourite fighters of the last decade, along with MAB and LL), but for longevity, and true legend, he must be counted up there in the top ten of ALL time. (And I know Barkley beat him twice, so what, look at the number one on everybodies list, SRR). Nuff said.
Monday May 12, 2008
William:  Oscar probably edges Leonard in crossover appeal. However, Leonard is CLEARLY the better fighter. In a fantasy matchup, Leonard wins a wide decision or knocks out Oscar late in the fight.
Monday May 12, 2008
Loren:  This is an easy pick Sugar Ray Leonard. I respect what Oscar De La Hoya has done for boxing by starting Golden Boy Promotions and helping bring more mainstream sports fans to boxing. But De La Hoya lost too many big fights. Sugar Ray Leonard beat most of the best fighters of his generation Hagler, Hearns and Duran. Even if there were close fights a win is a win. Leonard's Legacy will be more remembered. Leonard was great in and out of the ring. And he was good for the sport of boxing. Look at the contender once again he somewhat helped boxing
Tuesday May 13, 2008
Eastar:  A lot of good comments so I'll keep mine short. Oscar has the bigger fan base with the grammy award winning music cd and all. Yet, in the ring, he has always had problems with young athletic boxers, and that is exactly what Sugar Ray Leonard was at his best. Oscar bests Leonard in popularity. Leonard bests Oscar in boxing. Ya dig?
Tuesday May 13, 2008
Rick:  Leonard would run around the ring, fight the last 15 seconds of each round, and all 3 judges would give him each round.
Tuesday May 13, 2008
Eurudte:  I believe that a fantasy fight between these 2 Boxing Icons would result in loss for DLH; especially if the the fights were at the 15 round championship distance as were 8 of SRL's 40 fights. I do believe that as far as transcending Boxing that DLH has the advantage for several reasons. Boxing is a much bigger business today than it was during SRL's career. The coverage is greater with the advent and expansion of Cable TV and PPV, as well as Internet forums such as this. I had the pleasure of seeing most of SRL fights and have also followed DLH. My opinion is that SRL will historically be seen as the greater of the two but DLH will definitely transcend the sport further than SRL.
Tuesday May 13, 2008
Leonardo Marroquini:  The bigger shadow.. its a toss up.. While Leonard is the one holding the victories over prime great fighters, and he is also the one with more impressive/remarkable abilities like his blazing hands speed and bolo punch usage . In the other hand De La Hoya fought more often against more great opponents, not oponents as great as Hagler Hearns and Duran, but in numbers as numbers (whitaker,camacho, chavez, trinidad, mosley, mayweather). Plus Oscar is fame/time bigger than Leonard. Tough call
Tuesday May 13, 2008
Guy:  Leonard wins. Think about what another "Sugar" did to ODLH in their first fight. Oscar doesn't do well when the other fighter can match his speed, and no question, Ray could match Oscar's speed. Ray was also very strong at welterweight while Oscar didn't knock a lot of quality opponents out over 140 pounds (except for Vargas and that was awesome).
Tuesday May 13, 2008
Kam:  Sorry, but Sugar Ray would clean Chicken DeLaHoya's clock. Frankly Oscar wouldn't have lasted in Sugar's era, the class of opponents then I feel would have used him for a rag doll.
Tuesday May 13, 2008
Smiley C:  Ha, ha! Funny Rick! But, not so! DLH would run from Leonard for a five round before the Sugarman figure how to cut him off and knock his a$$ out. And then paaaarrrrrrttttttyyyyy until the break of dawn. Fo' sure!
Tuesday May 13, 2008
Dan:  there was a lot to read through, so don't know if anyone mentioned this, but I think people forget 1) how big boxing was in the 80s, and 2) how HUGE of a celebrity SRL was back then. He replaced Ali as the biggest draw in boxing. Also, his fights (not all, but many early ones) were on network TV. I disagree with Eurudte. Leonard had big endorsement deals that DLH never had. sure cable is bigger now, but it doesn't reach nearly as many people as the networks that SRL fought on. If DLH fought in the 80s, he may have been as big or bigger, but he didn't. he's a huge fish in a small pond now, whereas SRL was the biggest fish in the ocean once Ali retired. Also, DLH has never been in a single classic fight. SRL had at least 3: Duran, Hearns, Hagler.
Tuesday May 13, 2008
Erudite:  Dan. I never implied that DLH would be bigger than SRL within the realm of Boxing. I said that DLH (in my estimation) would have lost to Sugar had they met in their respective prime. I respectfully diagree that Boxing was bigger in the 80s than it is now. Look at the impact that Cable and PPV have had in "globalizing" boxing promotions. While network television reached many more free viewers, cable and PPV have opened new markets worldwide. Boxing sanctioning bodies (in their greed) have created more layers of champions and titles. The pond was "Purer" but not bigger back then. Boxing reaches more people world-wide today. Even with my opinion that Boxing is bigger I did say that SRL will, in my estimation always be considered the greater of the 2 in BOXING. DLH has already transcended boxing and ventured into publishing, music and now in promoting. And he is just beginning to diversify and has more time to make a greater impact outside of the sport as well as within via promotions. Bottom line Sugar Ray Leonard historically the greater Boxer and DLH a bigger impact in and outside of boxing in a non-fighter position.
Tuesday May 13, 2008
T-Dub:  Sugar Ray Leonard would easily without a doubt beat Oscar. Ray Leonard had a style and stuck with it. Oscar has no style till this day. As far as doing things out of the ring, I think Oscar has done more for his community and for boxing in general then Ray Leonard. Oscar has never fought anyone the likes of Haglar, Hearns, Duran. He would get KO'd by all 3.
Tuesday May 13, 2008
Radam G:  As a person, who lived overseas in the 1980s, like me tell you that boxing was already "globali(zed). We would see and still see all the bouts on regular television. The U.S. Americans had to go to closed circuit areas to see big bouts before PPV. Leonard did not have as many endorsements at the start of his career because his out-of-wedlock son. They didn't play that back then. During Golden Boy's times, nobody gives a darn. So He beats Sugar Ray in endorsements by a mile. Holla!
Tuesday May 13, 2008
manboobs the great:  The 80's is when boxing was very popular and the top guys purses' where LARGE. So earning potential was even. Oscar has made the most money but sugar is a more "worldwide" name. Gotta give it to sugar as being the most memorable in and out of the ring. Even people who know nothing at all about boxing can name 2 and sometimes 3 names; Muhamed Ali, Sugar Ray Leonard and sometimes Mike Tyson.
Tuesday May 13, 2008
andy from newcastle:  Anybody find anything other than the official press release on Mijares Munoz? Come on TSS, put your writers to work and do your bit. They can't just keep doing Oscar and Floyd pieces. Make them earn their dosh. Anyway, obviously nobody agrees with me on Tommy Hearns. Gold diggers, the lot of you.
Tuesday May 13, 2008
Erudite:  Radam G.: Point taken boxing was globalized in the 80s; I'll stipulate that. Having said that I will now say the theextent of that globalization is greater today for several reasons: PPV and Cable channels like ShowTime, HBO, ESPN, MSG, Versus, etc were not the players that they are today with respects to boxing and promoting it as competively as they do today. In addition with the collapse of the Soviet Union there are many more competitors that were no longer relegated to an amateur-only career. The boxing coverage today far exceeds anything that ABC Sports or NBC and CBS ever offered. Today we're not limited to only the "marketable" boxers or the matinee names. There are so many competing entities and with the additional influence of the Internet, I contend that Boxing today reaches more markets and therefore more people. As a matter of fact almost anything and everything today reaches more markets. You cannot compare today's technology and reach to that of the 80s anymore than we could compare the 80s to the 40s. Again having stated my opinion (and pardon the lengthy discourse) I still believe that Sugar Ray Leonard will go down as the greater boxer in this comparison but DeLa Hoya will transcend the sport not soley as a boxer but as a businessman too. Sadly the by-product of all of this boxing exposure is that we are subject to more miss-matches and less than stellar competion. But every now and then we're treated to some greats. I still miss the 70s and 80s though. Ali, Frazier, Foster, Hagler, Hearns, Sugar Ray, Duran, Wifredo Gomez, Salvador Sanchez, Carlos Palomino, Mancini, Antonio Cervantez, and on and on and on ..... just way too many to list!
Tuesday May 13, 2008
Erudite:  ... and how could I forget to mention my favorite boxer and the yougest world champion ever (17 years old) the "Bible of Boxing" , "El Radar" the one and only Wilfred Benitez. My rational for calling Sugar Ray the greater boxer is because he was part of a rivalry between five world champions: Wilfred Benitez, Roberto Duran, Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns and Sugar Ray Leonard that defined the 1980s. And he beat them all.
Tuesday May 13, 2008
rbk:  My vote is for Leonard. Definitely. But he didn't fight and beat them all - he ran from The Hawk.
Wednesday May 14, 2008
Erudite:  RBK: When I say he beat them all I'm referring to the ones mentioned: five champions within that welterweight/middleweight rivalry. Pryor was never in that mix; he should have been but he wasn't. Too bad because a Leonard vs Pryor and a Duran vs Pryor would have been classics. Pryor was a spoiler; nobody wanted to fight him.... too much to lose. Had he been in the mix he would have handled Duran and Leonard. Hearns may have been problematic for him (although Pryor beat him in the amateurs), Hagler would have been too much the naturally bigger man and Benitez (if he actually trained for it) would have given Pryor problems also.
Wednesday May 14, 2008
Arturo:  It's pretty simple to me. Oscar beat many great boxers , but most of them were past their prime.The boxers that were at their prime were able to get a "W" against Golden Boy. Leonard fought at a time where there was a large amount world class competition. He was able to give better performances than Oscar.
Wednesday May 14, 2008
Radam G:  Pryor was in the mi. But, every time that he got his shot, it was called off, because nobody could find Aaron. He had a bad, bad, drug problem. Aaron would disappear into crack houses and drug dens for days at a time. He would give hundred of thousands of dollar to strangers. He would stand on the street corner, passing out money. He was a kind guy, who people would take advantage of. Nowadays, he is fine. Thanks to God. Go to Boxrec and read his bio. Holla!
Wednesday May 14, 2008
Radam G:  *Pryor was in the mix. Holla!
Wednesday May 14, 2008
Erudite:  Radam G: You made my point for me he wasn't in the mix due to all those problems you enumerated and also because many fighters of note avoided him.
Wednesday May 14, 2008
FLOYD IS A GIRL:  SRL definetly... only to think that DLH starts fading after the 8th or 9th rounds.. can you imagine 15th rounds with Sugar Ray?Even Floyd Mayweather wouldn't stand with somebody like SRL... Actually, between the three Floyd is the only one who hasn't been match with top fighters like the Hearns and Duran... and he says he is the best pound for pound??? hahahaha FLOYD IS A GIRL!!!!!! Until he fights Cotto.... COTTO could give hell to Duran, Hearns and Sugar Ray... or can u imagine a fight between Hagler and Cotto.. ?? That's a fight to fantasy-match!!!! and remember.. FLOYD IS A GIRL... fight Cotto for respect!!!!
Wednesday May 14, 2008
Guy:  I will agree with one thing, FLOYD IS A GIRL. But Cotto versus Hagler isn't a fantasy-match because Hagler would destroy him. Hagler was a natural MIDDLEweight. Cotto is much stronger at 147 than he was at 140, but to ask Cotto to stand in against a prime Hagler at 160 rock hard pounds is asking too much of Cotto.
Wednesday May 14, 2008
Smiley C:  Each one of the above boxers would destroy Cotto. Fo' sure!
Wednesday May 14, 2008
paulbo:  Consider the facts: Leonard beat the best fighters of his era (Duran, Hearns, Hagler), while De La Hoya lost his biggest fights (Trinidad, Mosely, Hopkins, Mayweather). From that angle, it's no contest. Leonard will be remembered as the better fighter. A head-to-head matchup would reflect Leonard's big-fight edge. He'd outhustle De La Hoya in an entertaining, unanimous decision.
Thursday May 15, 2008
Erudite:  Cotto vs Duran at 147 would be a great fantasy match-up.
Thursday May 15, 2008
zapata:  oscar would not have beaten leonard. nor would he have beaten hearns, duran or benetiz. he does know how to make money, lots of it.
Thursday May 15, 2008
BabyDee:  SRL would have beaten DLH easily in my opinion. DLH would try and do his best, but SRL would just be too much, and too big!!!
Thursday May 15, 2008
Eddie:  A DRAW because both fighters best weight was 147pounds. DLH would have size and power over SRL. But SRL would have speed and stamina over DLH. DLH fades late, But SRL starts slow. Fight would look like a combination of DLH vs.Mosley1 & SRL vs.Duran1. In both those fights there was alot of buzz about their rivals who were a genuine threat to nearly perfect records. Also those were both homecomings of sorts for both fighters. In both those fights they both lost the bout, while attempting to fight the other mans fight! More logic to my reasoning is DLH is a more polished version of Duran, and Mosley is a lighter version of SRL. What it comes down to is a stalemate between two very similar fighters and I'm not reffering to fighting styles I'm referenceing there careers and personalitys. Who if ever they met in the ring, in their primes with the buzz both had at the time. In any era of boxing would have fought it out to an eventual draw. In my most humble of opinion, it would have been a classic simply because a fight like this would never happend. It would probably end up as a Trilogy. Hence the title of the article Fantasy Face Off....
Friday May 16, 2008
goose:  c'mon guys! This question isn't even worth a debate! Anyone who professes to really know what boxing is about could never ever expect to be taken seriously if they tried to sug gest that sugar ray leonard would've been beaten by oscar.
Friday May 16, 2008

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"I Don't Care Who Wins"
"Margarito has never really fought a big name until now. I've always been a fan of Margarito and I'm predicting a knockout win from Margarito this weekend. I just don't think Cotto is powerful enough to knock Margarito out and he'll have to use his skills, he'll frustrate Margarito but Margarito will get to him in the end. I'm going for 10th round TKO. That's my heart. Now my head is saying, Margarito has never fought anyone on the level of Cotto and it might show. We could see a competitive fight but with Cotto clearly winning the rounds for a decision win. It's a hard fight to call but whatever the result it's gonna be an enjoyable fight. I don't care who wins." --TSS reader Yuvie flips a coin (photo courtesy Chris Farina/Top Rank)

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The Battle! Cotto v Margarito
Is there a deeper, more competitive division in boxing than welterweight? Notwithstanding the astonishing retirement of pound-for-pound #1 Floyd Mayweather Jr, the division remains loaded.

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