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oscar forbes sweet science de la hoya


Sunday May 4, 2008

Oscar was cracking body shots with both hands early and it looked like he was setting up for a mid-fight stoppage. Forbes hung around, though, and achieved a victory, in his own mind, by going the distance.

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TSS Monday Morning QB: Oscar/Forbes Fight

By Michael Woods

A man who can laze away the day on one million thread-count sheets, as his interest accrues into a pile large enough to live on does not need to do what Oscar De La Hoya did on Saturday evening in California.

He does not need to engage in fisticuffs, after spending three months whittling down his waistline, and two months getting into proper condition, with hours of roadwork and thousands of crunches, for any reason at all.

Nope, De La Hoya has plenty of money, a cute as a button baby, a (presumably) adoring wife, a thriving empire that encompasses real estate, publishing, and a professional sports franchise. Even if he missed the roar of appreciation from 30,000 people gathered to see him in action, that ultra-buzz that feeds the ego like Mirace Gro, his face will remain familiar enough that he will be asked to sign autographs well into Jenna Bush’s second term as President.

So the Golden CEO deserves a clap on the back for getting into rock-solid shape, and taking his sparring sesh with Steve Forbes seriously as he looks ahead to his September rematch with Floyd Mayweather. He didn’t need to do it. Most wouldn’t have. Most guys would have been able to fool themselves into believing that they could do what they had to do to get ready for Floyd without taking a fighter in the interim. Why risk an injury? Why put more wear on a 35-year-old body? But Oscar is able to look at himself with enough honesty in his heart that he quite rightly decided that the only way he was going to do better against Floyd this time around was to be sharper.

In the first Floyd fight, on May 5, 2007,  Oscar had been off for a year, having last fought Ricardo Mayorga in May 2006. This time around, as long as the expected Ts get crossed and Is get dotted, and the re-do occurs on the projected September 20, Oscar will go only 3 ½ months in between bouts. Perfect. He won’t presumably have time to bloat up to cruiserweight during a long period of downtime, and he won’t have to spend as much time just carving off pounds and inches. Instead, he’ll be able to fine-tune strategy and tactics and with Floyd Mayweather Sr. Will that matter? Not a lick, in my opinion.

I had Floyd the obvious winner in the first one, and expect Money to deposit Oscar on the deck in this one, as he’s gotten another taste of the noticeable uptick in affirmation from fans and pundits who liked his killer instinct against Ricky Hatton last December.

Oscar’s effort against Steve Forbes, who we all can agree should not be holding 150 pounds on his 5-7 frame, does not make me one iota more inclined to give him a slim chance against Floyd.

Saturday, I didn’t see a brand new model of Oscar, one who promised to be up on his tippy toes, having fun, and feeling as relaxed as if he was taking Millie and Oscar and Nina on a picnic. I did see a pretty damn sharp fighter, who was winging body shots with both hands in effective fashion, and had a decent level of energy late. (ASIDE: Some experts do forget that ODLH hasn’t faded down the stretch in every match he’s ever been in. He threw 69 punches and sent Ike Quartey to the floor in their 1999 match, earning himself the win, as one judge had Ike up, and another had Oscar up a point going in to the last round. Yes, he didn’t roar down the backstretch against Felix Trinidad in September 1999, or against Shane Mosley in June 2000. But you’ll recall that he TKOd steroid-bolstered Fernando Vargas in the eleventh round of their September 2002 grudge match scrap, a fight that had one judge seeing Vargas ahead by three points after 10.)

It seems like a good amount of viewers were pleasantly surprised by Forbes’ showing on Saturday. Some have taken offense to the description of the bout as “sparring session,” and many point to the marks on Oscar’s face as proof that the tussle rose above sparring level quality. I disagree. Visit a gym sometime, I say to this crew. Sparring sessions can get as heated as though a belt were on the line, and were it not for headgear, copious evidence of damage done at many a sparring sesh would be on displayed regularly.

Now, regular readers will recall that I touched on some sensitive subject matter with Steve Forbes in an April 23rd column (http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-article/5853/forbes-swears-win/). 

“I am hoping, and I am almost 100% certain, that he was not chosen to be a designated loser, to be a cooperative ally in The Plan,” I wrote then.

Well, I have to say I think Steve left a little bit on the table on Saturday, and was a bit more cooperative than I would have liked, as opposed to summoning some much needed pugnacity. He touched gloves with Oscar, and nodded to him, in the manner one would during a sparring session, on several occasions. Eff that! If he was truly in a win-at-all-costs mode, there would be no touching of gloves, or affectionate glances! I’m all for sportsmanship…after the final bell. The sport still suffers from the mistaken assumption on the part of casual fans that many of the fights are fixed.

And what of his comments after the bout? “It was an honor to fight Oscar,” Forbes said. “I felt strong in there and it was great to have the opportunity to get in there and not go down. He has fought the greats and I hope I proved I am a top level fighter."

That’s NOT the sort of talk I hoped to be hearing after the match, though I feared that I would be hearing it.

 Just glad to get the assignment.  Just glad to stay on my feet, to survive.

But as our man Merchant astutely pointed out during the show, Forbes has never been knocked down as a pro, and people point to that fact as an undeniable plus in his favor. But that fact could indicate, as it did to me Saturday, that Forbes fights with a defensive mindset, and is sometimes more concerned with not going down, rather than taking the other man down. I am disappointed, I admit, because I love an underdog, and love to see a man rise above his station, and surprise himself, and all of us, and remind us that we are capable of summoning unseen reserves from deep within ourselves.

But the issue of how much Forbes left in the ring, and whether he cooperated with The Plan subconsciously, are matters that will likely not be articulated aloud by the fighter. Those issues will more probably kick around in his conscience, and bubble up in 10, 15 years, when he is retired, and replaying his mental highlight reel, and chewing on some decisions that would have been handled differently, in retrospect.

Now, we move forward, and look ahead, to where De La Hoya has been looking all along, to September.

Oscar and Floyd were like Treasury last year, printing money furiously, like Bear Stearns was going under. They generated $134 million of revenue in their Super Bowl square-off. Could they touch that single-fight record this time around? I’m not willing to say they couldn’t. Do not underestimate the marketing wizardry of Richard Schaefer and Golden Boy and HBO. Do not underestimate the savage soundbites that are going to be kicking around real soon, as the Mayweathers play out their issues of patriarchy in public. We will be eating up that subplot, which has been elevated to main event status, and so will the mainstream media. The NY Times may even send a live body to cover the rematch!
 


Contact Michael Woods @ TheSweetScience.com


eastar:  Woods, do you really believe Forbes did not give it his all. You think he was holding back some "special super power" that magically appears when your an underdog? You believe Forbes has more tools than what he displayed on saturday? Tools that would have propelled him to a victory over one of the greatest fighers of this era?...And this is all based on the fact that they touched gloves, and Steve acknowledged the great opportunity he was given to fight the Golden Boy? I don't know, maybe the Dela Hoya /Forbs countdown show worked on you a little too much! Stevie never had a chance!!! Ya dig?
Monday May 5, 2008
Rich:  Forbes wasn't as busy as he could have been. And i saw he touched gloves and that wa sit for me. he was not in position to win but he did not give 100 percent in my opinion too.
Monday May 5, 2008
GJ:  Forbes at times "appeared" to be trying hard..he connected at times and seemed to want to trade with the much bigger DLH, but that's about it...either he realized he was in with a bigger puncher and pulled back or he simply was there for the "honor" of fighting DLH...
Monday May 5, 2008
andy from newcastle:  I had a comment almost censored, it wasn't and was printed in full by accident, because I jokingly suggested the writer may have got a nice holiday in the caribbean through its tourism promotional format. And yet here is Mr.Woods suggesting Forbes all but took a dive. Mr.Eastar you are right, Rich you are wrong. Mr.Woods, please be respectful and do not use foul language (Eff that) in your comments. No doubt I'll be censored again by the over sensitive TSS writers union.
Monday May 5, 2008
Rashad:  I don't get these accusations. Forbes hit De La Hoya as much as any other fighter who gave Oscar a tough time. The only problem he had no control of is he has no power. He didn't have the power to keep Oscar off of him so Oscar just walked through his punches and outworked him. If anything Oscar should be kicking his self for breathing through the mouth already in the middle rounds. He will fade early against Mayweather since he'll be chasing him around more, putting more work into cornering him and putting him against the ropes. And he'll have to throw even more punches to out work Floyd. The main key is his jab, he has a solid shot if his jab can work as well as it did Saturday night. The only problem is he'll fade late and Floyd might stop him in the same fashion he stopped Hatton.
Monday May 5, 2008
rudy:  I think Forbes knew he couldnt hurt Oscar so he just decided to fight in spots and avoid De La Hoya's power shots to go the distance. No shame in going 12 rds w/DLH. Anyways, I think Oscar will fight a smarter fight against PBF the 2nd time around, will it be enough to win? Probably not, but you never know Oscar could be back in fighting shape and surprise the majority of us. I think his plan to fight Cotto will get derailed by the spoiler at 147, Antonio Margarito. People are overlooking the fact that he is going to chin check Cotto at 147 -- name me a power puncher that Cotto has faced at 147? Not Quintana, Mosley, Judah, or Gomez. Margarito will come full force at Cotto and make him go backwards. I'm calling it, Margarito 7th KO. Either way, I just hope that the winners of Cotto-Margarito and DLH-PBF face each other....lets settle it and have a TRUE champ at Welterweight.
Monday May 5, 2008
Aficionado of Boxing:  Forbes, a former superfeatherweight Champion, was clearly in over his head. He did, what he's always done. Like a zebra who can't change his stripes, Forbes was more concerned about not being knockdown than actually fighting. Yes he landed a few combos and a jab but it was less than inspiring. As I saw the fight, Oscar was just walking him down towards the latter end of the fight. Forbes, I believe really gave all that he had, according to his style. Which is: Not to be knocked down= No Risk! His comment to Larry Merchant on this topic left me scratching my head . And then he went on to say that," I hope I proved I am a top level fighter." Why ? What was the need ? Did he know before hand that this fight was going to be looked upon with disdain and that it was merely a sparring session with what seemed like an old friend ? Give us a break. Oscar fight Quintana or Cintron or Williams for a tune-up! Why waste our time on these trivial fights that are forgettable within the next week or so! Who's going to look back and say, "Wow, you remember how DLH handled Forbes right! So he's definitely going to beat Floyd when they fight in September!" C'mon we know this fight did not convince one fan of Oscar's "return"! It's a joke and the damage inflicted by a slower, smaller Stevie is going to be trifold for Floyd in September, which I will be watching the week after they meet for "free" on HBO! The boycott is on!
Monday May 5, 2008
Robert Curtis:  This is all wild speculation. You can't read a man's mind. Steve may not even be aware if he held back. He got a shot at fighting a legend, maybe his only shot? Yeah, if he really didn't leave everything in that ring and didn't use every trick at his disposal: clean, sneaky or downright dirty, he may have regrets someday? But I think Steve Forbes gave it his best. He held his ground till the closing bell and made his mark on Oscar's face. What more could he do? Did Forbes really have that deep a toolbox and trick bag to begin with? Steve Forbes is just not that kind of sneaky and seasoned fighter. That's why Oscar chose him. Let Steve be proud of what he did Saturday.
Monday May 5, 2008
Arturo:  I thought that Forbes had a decent left jab also.His speed did surprise Oscar a few times early in the fight.But even if he would have been busier , the lack of power was going to be a big problem either way. I still don't think Oscar is good enough to fight Mayweather , he seemed slower and inaccurate with his power punches. The people that were broadcasting the fight made it seem like Oscar turned into a fighting machine , it's been 10 years since I saw a great showing from "The Golden Boy"
Monday May 5, 2008
FLOYD IS A GIRL:  For me DLH looked very well until the 8th, then he took a break and came strong on the final rounds. I think the break was part of the plan as well. I believe he did all he had to do to prepare for Mayweather. He didn't knock Forbes out? Well, nobody had knocked him out so what's the point??? He looked very well to my opinion and Forbes was outclassed, that's the end of it. I'm not a DLH fan but I do respect his willingness to fight and go out in a blaze of glory against Mayweather and Cotto. I believe he can win Mayweather but Cotto is a different story. Even against Margarito he could face big problems. That's a fight to watch right there! Whoever comes victorious in Cotto-Margarito will be the best pound for pound... no doubt. Mayweather can't be the best until he faces the best - Cotto said once. And he is so right. If only Floyd had the courage DLH and Cotto has... then boxing would be the perfect sport.... until then, he is just a big mouth who say "I'm the best pound for pound". Nothing more than that. I always envision Floyd Mayweather jumping on the internet on the middle of the night reading all this comments about why he doesn't want to fight Cotto.... then, swallowing his BS talk scary like a girl imagine how Cotto will chop his career... COME OUT AND FIGHT THE BEST FLOYD!!! OR FIGHT ME!!!! May I suggest a 2.5 million deal for me? I don't care how much you make, I'm fine with that. hehehehehe.
Monday May 5, 2008
donputo69:  a power puncher at 147?..i can name you one..judah..judah has decent power on both hands..is just that he doesnt know how to use it..mosley?..he can still stun some welterweights..i think he also has decent power..so there you go rudy..you starting to sound like a cotto hater..lol..but its all good..just bring it on..holla back..
Monday May 5, 2008
Radam G:  I am with Editor Mike, Forbes should have come out of the woods and battled. He is too defensive-mind set. And it is nothing to brag about. So what, he has never been on his butt! This why he has not developed a sunday punch. Just about all light-punching fighters have a least a sunday punch. Stevie is overly proud about never going down. But he is also not going down in history as one of the best defensive boxers of all times. He is passive and sissified. The greatest defensive boxer in the history of the game all kissed the canvas. It's nothing wrong with getting knocked down, just get the hell up. Which one of these boxers -- considered to be the greatest defensive ones in history -- was not down? Willie Pep, Sugar Ray Robinson, Pernell Whitaker, Muhammad Ali, Roberto Duran, Don Curry, Hector Camacho, Savaldor Sanchez, Wilfred Benitez, Gene Tunney, Archie Moore, Benny Leonard and Petty Boy aka Money May Floyd Mayweather Jr, to name a few. Holla!
Monday May 5, 2008
rudy:  Don, not hating just stating facts my man. The Cotto backers are talking about possible fights with Oscar and Floyd when he has business at hand with Margarito, if anyone is overlooking anyone at the moment its Cotto. You talk about Judah has some pop? He hasnt had a KO since 2005 when he KO'd Cosme Rivera and Spinks, over 3 yrs ago -- and when last year he fought a bunch of nobodies that he should of KO'd he went the distance, Ruben Galvan NC 1, Edwin Vazquez UD 10, Ryan Davis UD 12??? WTF are those guys? Mosley KO a shot-obese Vargas and before that he hadnt had a KO since 2001!!! Both Mosley and Judah WOBBLED Cotto and had him thinking twice about coming, imagine the damage Margarito is going to do when he lands his bombs on Cotto. Its going to be trouble for Cotto come July 26th.
Tuesday May 6, 2008
Aficionado of Boxing:  To put it bluntly, the PBF-DLH fight is NOT for welterweight supremacy. Both of them have avoided every fighter in the division. Unless you call the Hatton fight at WW where he came up and immediately went back down to where he's more comfortable, a fight. And with Oscar a bloated superfeatherweight in Forbes a fight. None of which were ranked in the top 10 of the division. At this point, the best thing going is Cotto-Margarito. And contrary to popular belief, Cotto will not exchange with Margarito and he will box his way to the win. Like he did with Mosley, once he knew he couldn't knock him out! If anyone is paying for the PBF-DLH fight. What differences are you going to see ? Is Floyd going to stand in front of DLH and let him have his way ? No, he is going to do, what he's always done and that's stick, move and hold! Same schtick as the first fight! Oscar's a full year and a half older and didn't look too good after a sparring session with a smaller, weaker and slower version of Floyd! What makes you think he will have a different outcome this time around ? Be logical People! This fight is going to be the 2nd biggest fleecing ever ! (compared to the first one!)
Tuesday May 6, 2008
Uruk-Hai:  Woods seriously, are you delusional? Question woods.. this is common sense really. Can you consider a guy as p4p when all he fights is a shot DLH and a blown up Hatton? It's all common sense Woods. And it will expose your double standards.
Tuesday May 6, 2008
donputo69:  rudy..when you get hit on the chin unexpected you are gonna wobble..and so far at 147 he's has taking some good shots..and hasnt been down yet..what about scareweather?..he's been wobble by dlh and hatton and zab and nobody says anything about that right?..holla back..
Tuesday May 6, 2008
rudy:  Floyd wobbled? When?? Can you show me some video? The two fighters who did hit Floyd good where Castillo in the 1st fight and Zab for 4 rds, but against DLH and Hatton he was never in any danger and he avoided 95% of their shots. Floyd against the ropes and they were just combinations that wouldnt land, just looked exciting for the pro Hatton-DLH crowds. I give Oscar a better shot against Floyd the 2nd time around but he is going to have to have the performance of his life to do it. Cotto has taken some shots from Zab and Mosley, and they both had him going backwards or thinking twice about coming forward. Against Zab you HAVE to account for the low blows, in the Mosley fight he boxed his way to a UD to his credit, but still Mosley was the aggressor, either Cotto was tired or in fear of getting tagged. Dont forget Zab & Mosley were never natural welters, Margarito is a 147 fighter, he will push the pace and make Cotto fight hard for every second of every round, if he takes a step back and tries to box, Margarito will take advantage and Cotto will get caught. I'm telling you, Cotto is overlooking Margarito and that means upset.
Wednesday May 7, 2008
mrjohnson:  this was a very entertaining.
Wednesday May 7, 2008
FLOYD IS A GIRL:  OK. IT IS TRUE that nobody should overlook Margarito and that Cotto had wobble in the past with fighters with less punching power, nobody can deny that BUT, it is true as well that Cotto had overcome all of them and he has been always been willing to fight ANYBODY... that my friends is the definition of a great boxer... a true heart of a champion willing to fight anybody, anywhere and who overcomes trouble and stand up victorious fighting hard to win and not like a "deffensive showman".... so that makes FLOYD MAYWEATHER A GIRL... He will retire someday and people will recognize his talent but I even can read the same last sentence in every comment... "but he was always critized for not fighting the top boxers, instead he intelligently picked inferior opponents he could win"... sad for you and your fans Floyd.... They want to defend you but everyday they experience how you avoid and avoid our champion. Send Floyd over to Puerto Rico or even México for two weeks.. we will make a man out of him and make him FIGHT FOR GLORY, NO FOR MONEY.... until then... no respect for Floyd!!!! Margarito and Cotto.. those two are fighters. That is real boxing!!!! God please... blessings on both fighters but help Cotto win!!!!!
Thursday May 8, 2008

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"Look for the Hispanic Causing Panic to do a job on Hatton. He will beat Hatton, but will not get the verdict, unless it is a kayo (or TKO from Hatton suffering from too many cuts). Hatton's body is shot. His skin will split open from cuts. Blowing up to 185 and then dropping down to 140 is not good for a number of years. Hatton should fight at light middle or middle or retire. (The body can handle losing 25 to 30 pounds between bouts. This amount is what boxers call the walk-around weight.) I bet Hatton will consider going up in weight or retiring after this bad performance." --TSS reader Radam thinks Lazcano is more than a live dog on May 24

Round by Round Coverage
Oscar De La Hoya Forbes Press
Fight fans, on Saturday, May 3rd TSS will bring you Round by Round coverage of the Oscar De La Hoya v. Steve Forbes showdown live from the Home Depot Center in Carson, Ca. Join us at 10:00pm ET / 7:00pm PT for bell-to-bell coverage and ringside analysis.

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