Shoulder Statement From Pacquiao and Top Rank

JOINT STATEMENT FROM TEAM PACQUIAO AND TOP RANK

During training, Manny Pacquiao suffered a right shoulder injury. Manny went to see world-class doctors, partners in the prestigious Kerlan Jobe Orthopedic Clinic, who performed tests and, in consultation with Manny, his promoter, and his advisors, concluded that with short rest, treatments, and close monitoring, Manny could train and, on May 2, step into the ring against Floyd Mayweather.

Manny’s advisors notified the United States Anti-Doping Agency (“USADA”) of the shoulder injury and the treatments being proposed by the doctors during training and on fight night. USADA spoke to Manny’s doctors twice, investigated, and confirmed in writing that the proposed treatments, if used, were completely allowed. The medication approved for fight night was a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory (Toradol).

Manny continued to train and his shoulder improved, though not 100%. This is boxing, injuries happen, and Manny is a warrior. Again, in consultation with his doctors, promoter and advisors, Manny decided to proceed with the fight anticipating that he could receive his pre-fight treatment. That specific treatment had been approved by USADA in writing at least 5 days before the fight.

On his pre-fight medical form filled out earlier in the week, Manny’s advisors listed the medications that Manny used in training and the medications that might be used on fight night. A few hours before he was expected to step in the ring, when Manny’s doctors began the process, the Nevada Commission stopped the treatment because it said it was unaware of Manny’s shoulder injury.

This was disappointing to Team Pacquiao since they had disclosed the injury and treatment to USADA, USADA approved the treatments, and Manny had listed the medication on his pre-fight medical form.

Also, USADA had provided a copy of its contract with the fighters to the Commission. An hour before the fight, Manny’s advisors asked the Commission to reconsider and the director of USADA advised the Commission that USADA had approved the fight-night treatment, but the Commission denied the request.

With the advice of his doctors, Manny still decided to proceed with the fight. His shoulder wasn’t perfect but it had improved in training camp.

However, as Manny has said multiple times, he makes no excuses. Manny gave it his best

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COMMENTS

-amayseng :

Nsac can forever be tarnished for this nonsense what a complete failure as Floyd receives pain numbimg injections at the same time Pac is denied anti inflammatory injection before the fight


-Radam G :

Nsac can forever be tarnished for this nonsense what a complete failure as Floyd receives pain numbimg injections at the same time Pac is denied anti inflammatory injection before the fight
NSAC has a long, long trail of this type of jive. They were in on a fixed from da jump. I call it as I see it. USADA was running the show. And NSAC gave it the permission to do so. But then play Bureaucratic dumb arse. Anybody with an iota of a brain knows that the NSAC is not that stupid. The bureaucrats are just corrupted -- plain and simple. Holla!


-Radam G :

Remind me of my days with dumb-arse commissions. I'm not ashamed to tell it now. I kicked their arses in court every single time. I'm undefeated from suing and winning against the NSAC. And against the California and Texas commissions. Puck em! I was sue city _______ _____ on their trifling arses. What they have done to Da Manny is trifling to da maximum. I hope that Da BobFather and Da Manny have a lawsuit in the works. The NSAC gave USADA the card to play, so NSAC should have done things USADA way! It said YES -- Y-E-S! NSAC should have then stepped to the side and shut da double fudge up. But it will learn now. Yall don't know me. I'm bold as they come. As a fan, I'm filing a class-action lawsuit against NSAC for cheating me out of seeing the best Pacquiao. You lawyers know what time it is. Holla at me. Just for good old time sake, Imma sue NSAC for denying a great fight because of incompetent bureaucrats. My old posse of legal minds, holla at me! Holla!


-The Shadow :

Well, if this jackass was really injured, then he and his team shouldn't have fought. And if they DID decide to fight, they most definitely shouldn't have gone on the record damn near every single day with asinine statements like this:
->http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/boxing/32554687 (KILLER INSTINCT IS BACK!)
->http://www.boxingscene.com/roach-arum-promise-distraction-free-camp-pacquiao--88443 (GREAT TRAINING CAMP!)
->http://www.latimes.com/sports/boxing/la-sp-sn-boxing-pacquiao-mayweather-freddie-roach-trainer-of-year-20150424-story.html
->http://thaboxingvoice.com/roach-on-amir-khan-he-got-no-balls-mayweather-legs-theyre-not-what-they-used-to-be/43809?var=no
->http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-boxing-freddie-roach-mayweather-pacquiao-20150304-story.html
->http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-boxing-freddie-roach-mayweather-pacquiao-20150304-story.html
->http://www.boxingscene.com/freddie-roach-well-knock-floyd-mayweather-out--25649
->http://www.boxingscene.com/roach-mayweather-corner-tainted-floyd-sr-terrible--88154
->http://www.boxingscene.com/roach-floyd-sr-like-ghhhghhhghhhget-em--88683
->http://www.boxingscene.com/roach-mayweather-sr-implode-floyd-on-his-own--88561 And after constantly saying legs are shot, his coach then says:
->http://www.boxingscene.com/freddie-roach-i-thought-mayweather-ran-very-well--90589 And this took me about two minutes to find. There's probably a ton of other things I missed. It's all pathetic, so pathetic. Just give the opponent credit and go home with your head held high, he fought a good fight but lost to a better man. No shame in that. I'm losing respect for this fool for saying this or (I'll give him the benefit of the doubt) allowing people to say this on his behalf. Just take your L like a man, bro.


-kidcanvas :

woudnt of happened with Mark Ratner ,a man with common sense ..


-Radam G :

Well, if this jackass was really injured, then he and his team shouldn't have fought. And if they DID decide to fight, they most definitely shouldn't have gone on the record damn near every single day with asinine statements like this:
->http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/boxing/32554687 (KILLER INSTINCT IS BACK!)
->http://www.boxingscene.com/roach-arum-promise-distraction-free-camp-pacquiao--88443 (GREAT TRAINING CAMP!)
->http://www.latimes.com/sports/boxing/la-sp-sn-boxing-pacquiao-mayweather-freddie-roach-trainer-of-year-20150424-story.html
->http://thaboxingvoice.com/roach-on-amir-khan-he-got-no-balls-mayweather-legs-theyre-not-what-they-used-to-be/43809?var=no
->http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-boxing-freddie-roach-mayweather-pacquiao-20150304-story.html
->http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-boxing-freddie-roach-mayweather-pacquiao-20150304-story.html
->http://www.boxingscene.com/freddie-roach-well-knock-floyd-mayweather-out--25649
->http://www.boxingscene.com/roach-mayweather-corner-tainted-floyd-sr-terrible--88154
->http://www.boxingscene.com/roach-floyd-sr-like-ghhhghhhghhhget-em--88683
->http://www.boxingscene.com/roach-mayweather-sr-implode-floyd-on-his-own--88561 And after constantly saying legs are shot, his coach then says:
->http://www.boxingscene.com/freddie-roach-i-thought-mayweather-ran-very-well--90589 And this took me about two minutes to find. There's probably a ton of other things I missed. It's all pathetic, so pathetic. Just give the opponent credit and go home with your head held high, he fought a good fight but lost to a better man. No shame in that. I'm losing respect for this fool for saying this or (I'll give him the benefit of the doubt) allowing people to say this on his behalf. Just take your L like a man, bro.
Wow! These Jackasses Larry Holmes, Sugar Ray Leonard, the late, great Vernon Forrest, "Sweet" Pete Whitaker, Julio Cesar Chavez, GOAT Ali, and Gentleman Gerry Cooney, to name a few fought with the same or similar injuries back in da day, fought because the commissions and the power that be let it happen and let them take the medicine. There was no reason for the latest arsehole to single out Da Manny. There is long, long historic trail of pugs get shots of medication to go on. Money May -- his darn self -- is notorious for shooting xylocaine in his arse and hands. Da Manny was cleared by USADA to use a similar thing. The NSAC commissioner should have step to the side and shut da double fudge up. He won't be commissioner must longer. Apparently his doesnt' understand the laws of da game. And, my friend, you cannot bullsyet your way through boksing legal mines. I know it very well. As for what Da Manny said, he wasn't give a fair chance to do them. Holla!


-Radam G :

The NSAC let USADA become its surrogate and then violated when it came to the simplest thing that happens umpteen times to pugs -- taking meds for diz and dat and da whole 9 in the reg in pugilism. The NSAC clearly knows messed up. This is not about Lil Floyd. This is about in his word, "an equal playing ground." He was full of his syet for pain and stiffness. Give others likewise. Holla!


-The Shadow :

Wow! These Jackasses Larry Holmes, Sugar Ray Leonard, the late, great Vernon Forrest, "Sweet" Pete Whitaker, Julio Cesar Chavez, GOAT Ali, and Gentleman Gerry Cooney, to name a few fought with the same or similar injuries back in da day, fought because the commissions and the power that be let it happen and let them take the medicine. There was no reason for the latest arsehole to single out Da Manny. There is long, long historic trail of pugs get shots of medication to go on. Money May -- his darn self -- is notorious for shooting xylocaine in his arse and hands. Da Manny was cleared by USADA to use a similar thing. The NSAC commissioner should have step to the side and shut da double fudge up. He won't be commissioner must longer. Apparently his doesnt' understand the laws of da game. And, my friend, you cannot bullsyet your way through boksing legal mines. I know it very well. As for what Da Manny said, he wasn't give a fair chance to do them. Holla!
I don't like what I'm seeing from him. I thought he was better than this, I really did. It looks more like a nefarious Arum plot than anything else, he just doesn't seem like that kind of fella. But hey, I don't know him. You never know. I just know that with his team talking all that mess beforehand, it's really not a good look to first claim victory, then when that didn't work out, claim injury. Tim Bradley didn't whinge and moan, as Carl Froch would say, he gave credit to Pacquiao. Pacquiao should do the same. Roach is really showing his true colors here.


-stormcentre :




-Radam G :

I don't like what I'm seeing from him. I thought he was better than this, I really did. It looks more like a nefarious Arum plot than anything else, he just doesn't seem like that kind of fella. But hey, I don't know him. You never know. I just know that with his team talking all that mess beforehand, it's really not a good look to first claim victory, then when that didn't work out, claim injury. Tim Bradley didn't whinge and moan, as Carl Froch would say, he gave credit to Pacquiao. Pacquiao should do the same. Roach is really showing his true colors here.
The solid proof is there. One can claim anything and often do. Those in the loop of da poop know and knew da haps. Everybodee and dey momma, including Sam Watson and his sons and Team Mayweather were surprised about the move of that new Nevada commissioner. He messed up. And be gone before long. The truth is the truth. Imma even sue for NSAC violating my rights to get an action-pack scrap. On the mainland USA, you sue for almost anything. Holla!


-King Beef :

If you truly have a injury 2 to 3 weeks before the biggest fight of your career, why not postpone it; whether you thought it was gonna get better or not... or you thought you were gonna be allowed to get a shot right before the fight. If you are fighting for the fans, would you not want to go into this fight as close to 100% as possible! .... If you are trying to get the biggest win of your career..wouldn't you want to be at 100%!! This whole thing is just F'D up, wonder how this would play if it was the other way around???


-Radam G :

If you truly have a injury 2 to 3 weeks before the biggest fight of your career, why not postpone it; whether you thought it was gonna get better or not... or you thought you were gonna be allowed to get a shot right before the fight. If you are fighting for the fans, would you not want to go into this fight as close to 100% as possible! .... If you are trying to get the biggest win of your career..wouldn't you want to be at 100%!! This whole thing is just F'D up, wonder how this would play if it was the other way around???
That is not the culture of 99.9995 percent of pugs. You take approved medicine and fight. This is not a punkified game. The late, great Sugar Ray Robinson was the only elite pugs to postpone the fight for anything. Big Money Boxing doesn't play that. Boxers learn that from the amateurs. Nobody is going to postpone a championship fight because you are hurt. The culture is to man da double fudge up. Take the medicine and fight. And if you don't gest a chance to take the medicine, fight anyway. Holla!


-stormcentre :

If Floyd came out with this stuff PacQueens would be - if it is possible - more "PacCultHystericalWetPantsNotPacLossAcceptingWitoutAnExcuseToHoldOnto" than they already are. Funny NSAC injury paperwork for both, an established promotional outfit like Top Rank and also Kontz and all the lawyers they would have at their PacInjured fingertips. If nothing else, brilliant humour. Good post KB, and Shadow. Hey, I know, Al Haymon created the whole conspiracy and he's responsible for Pac's loss and shoulder?


-King Beef :

That is not the culture of 99.9995 percent of pugs. You take approved medicine and fight. This is not a punkified game. The late, great Sugar Ray Robinson was the only elite pugs to postpone the fight for anything. Big Money Boxing doesn't play that. Boxers learn that from the amateurs. Nobody is going to postpone a championship fight because you are hurt. The culture is to man da double fudge up. Take the medicine and fight. And if you don't gest a chance to take the medicine, fight anyway. Holla!
If that be the case, [U]don't bring it up[/U]..they should have Taken the "L" and moved on. you know as well as I do; there would be instant thousand page threads if this was reversed.


-stormcentre :

Whoooo hooooooooo This stuff (and the other PacQueen threads) is Gold. My phone's OS just crashed as a result of all the humorous and support SMSs and emails. That's never happened before. Now, I probably shouldn't be happy about that; as it will cost me. But thank you Queens, we have never laughed so much. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
->http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-mayweather-pacquiao-20150504-story.html Aguilar said that Pacquiao's camp noted the possible need for the lidocaine cocktail on a medical form filled out at Friday's weigh-in, but a check mark in the "no" box was placed next to the question of whether the fighter had a shoulder injury.
"If the injury was disclosed at the weigh-in, we could've had a conversation and handled it differently," Aguilar said. "When you come at 6:30 with the fight at 8, that's a different conversation."
->http://sports.inquirer.net/180640/pacquiaos-shoulder-injury-kept-secret-from-public NAC commissioner Francisco Aguilar, however, declined the request because the fight was but two hours away and
it would be difficult to ascertain the possible effects of the drugs (Lidocaine, Celeston and Bupivacaine) on the performance of Pacquiao against Mayweather. For another, Aguilar noted that the request was made verbally, not in writing. Arum claimed, however, that they actually asked the NAC for approval of the drugs to be administered to Pacquiao’s shoulders five days before the fight. Francisco Aguilar, chairman of the Nevada Athletic Commission, said the Pacquiao team did not disclose the injury until Saturday night, so the requests for permission to take the shot and to have a personal doctor in Pacquiao's corner were denied. "We were not aware of his injury until tonight at 6:30," said Aguilar, who made the ruling. "The medications he was taking were disclosed on his medical questionnaire, but not the actual injury. ... This isn't our first fight. This is our business. There is a process, and when you try to screw with the process, it's not going to work for you.
->http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/12811381/manny-pacquiao-fought-floyd-mayweather-injured-right-shoulder-denied-anti-inflammatory-shot-locker-room "After speaking to [NSAC medical consultant] Dr. [Timothy] Trainor and understanding what the request was, I made a decision not to allow it, given the timing of the request."
"If [Pacquiao] would have come out victorious, the only thing I could have got up here and said was, 'I have to show respect and say he was the better man,'" Mayweather said in his postfight news conference. "Both my arms were injured. Both my hands were injured, but as I've said before, I always find a way to win." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arum - a savvy lawyer - sure tried to get PacSteroidInjections via the most ambiguous means possible; which would, in turn, provide the most wide berth for explanations should any curious agent be found within Pac's system. Why not announce the injury, requirement for an injection, and Pac's decrease of NeedlePhobia, when Pac was first said to have had the injury? Why not postpone the fight? Why keep it a secret? To many questions, too little answers, and too much suspicious paperwork for me; but I appreciate some don't agree with that. :)


-Radam G :

If that be the case, [U]don't bring it up[/U]..they should have Taken the "L" and moved on. you know as well as I do; there would be instant thousand page threads if this was reversed.
Why! Life is what it is. NSAC should stop cheating. And no one would have to bring it up. Holla!


-Radam G :

BTW! The haters and posers ought to quit already. Doc Vitali K quit on the stool with a similar injury years ago against Chris Byrd. At least Da Manny fought to the end. Dan Rafael has praised Da Manny for being a trooper. So you haters and posers eat your hearts out. You would quit with a broken fingernail. And you couldn't wear a fighter's jockstrap. Holla!


-amayseng :

Why! Life is what it is. NSAC should stop cheating. And no one would have to bring it up. Holla!
The question is why not bring it up and shed light on the corrupt and shitty NSAC??? fight 6 years in the making and the usada is well aware and on board as the nsac denies Pac a shot but then walks into the other locker room and gives Floyd one why would yiu not bring it up is the question btw im a PT so anyone claiming a torn rotator cuff is not debilitating is an absolute fool


-stormcentre :

Both Pac & PacEntourage Allegedly Had Only 1 Arm & No Chance Of Winning)]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forum...ll=1#post80806 In his BIGGEST scrap, Big Floyd got knocked out. In his BIGGEST scrap, Uncle Roger got knocked out. In his BIGGEST scrap, Uncle Jeff got knocked out. In his BIGGEST scrap, Lil Floyd is going to get knocked out. Holla!
And here . . . [QUOTE=Originally Posted by Madam G (Written On The Eve Of MayPac When Both Pac & PacEntourage Allegedly Had Only 1 Arm & No Chance Of Winning)]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forum...ll=1#post80805 It will not be a stinker. But it could be a short affair. With Money May shocked and on his arse. He is nothing that he is pretending. And getting kayoed is always a Mayweather ending. Check the history. Holla! [/QUOTE] And here . .
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20961-2-Storm-Take-your-substantial-BS-and-stick-it-up-your-arse!/page2 Talk later. Oh, before I go, you please be sure to let me know when/if you have given Donkey the flick, and I will do the same if AlphaCenturiAlienLostCityOfAtlantisInTactMermaidHymen and me ever have a fall out. :) She is real man. I should say that I don't foresee me and AlphaCenturiAlienLostCityOfAtlantisInTactMermaidHymen ever splitting up though, as she seems to not mind fact, truth, and "stantiation". And as you know, that's my thing. Hey MMMMG, have I told you that; "I am real and keeping it that way?" Hey MMMMG, have I told you that; "I know every iota of the boxing game?". Hey MMMMG, have I told you that; "I never make stuff as I go along?" Peace out lone PacRanger. Sorry to hear about the PacLoss. But hey, he's still a great fighter.


-Radam G :

Andre "SOG" Ward fought with the same tear while on meds before he got the surgery done. Way, way back in da day, the late, great Sonny "Night Train" Liston quit in the corner against the then young Cassius Clay because of the same type of tear. So, as I said, and should not have to, there is a long trail of pugs getting this type of injury. It is no JOKE! So all the haters and posers to ought CTFU and grow up. Quit pi$$ing a fit because the actuality of reality strikes. That is life. And it will go on without your permission. Holla!


-stormcentre :

BTW! The haters and posers ought to quit already. Doc Vitali K quit on the stool with a similar injury years ago against Chris Byrd. At least Da Manny fought to the end. Dan Rafael has praised Da Manny for being a trooper. So you haters and posers eat your hearts out. You would quit with a broken fingernail. And you couldn't wear a fighter's jockstrap. Holla!
You don't think you yourself talked and hated a little bit too much "before" the fight do you? Perhaps that's why is seems "not fair" now. Floyd fought with shot legs, the curse of 38, and probably some bad-wood chips in his eyes; this must be true, as you told us yourself over the course of umpteen fantastic posts. Many fighters fight with broken noses. Tszyu fought with shoulder injuries. Fenech fought with broken hands so bad that had to delicately cut his wraps off him after the fight. Harding fought with a dislocated back. None of these guys kept it a secret (from the other party and the relevant commissions) up until the very last moment, only hours before the main event; looking for an injection that the commission itself would have difficulties determining what the difference was between its medical and performance enhancing effects. None of these guys have a history with PEDs that their promoters and coaches effectively admit. Aside from the accuracy; what I write here and now - now that Pac has lost and Floyd won - is just an ounce of the kind of stuff you dished up to us all for months on end; so I know you can handle it like the big/fair boxing boy that you are. The only other difference (to what I write) is that, unlike some, I am not running away from what I say, and instead are right here, present, accountable, and prepared to substantiate or be proven wrong. You should try it - it's a wonderful feeling. Speaking of hypocrites and hating . . . . . as you above do . . . "BTW! The haters and posers ought to quit already" . . have a lookie lookie here . . [QUOTE=Originally Posted by Madam G (Written On The Eve Of MayPac When Both Pac & PacEntourage Allegedly Had Only 1 Arm & No Chance Of Winning)]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forum...ll=1#post80806 In his BIGGEST scrap, Big Floyd got knocked out. In his BIGGEST scrap, Uncle Roger got knocked out. In his BIGGEST scrap, Uncle Jeff got knocked out. In his BIGGEST scrap, Lil Floyd is going to get knocked out. Holla! [/QUOTE] And here . . . [QUOTE=Originally Posted by Madam G (Written On The Eve Of MayPac When Both Pac & PacEntourage Allegedly Had Only 1 Arm & No Chance Of Winning)]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forum...ll=1#post80805 It will not be a stinker. But it could be a short affair. With Money May shocked and on his arse. He is nothing that he is pretending. And getting kayoed is always a Mayweather ending. Check the history. Holla! [/QUOTE] And here . .
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20961-2-Storm-Take-your-substantial-BS-and-stick-it-up-your-arse!/page2 Talk later. Oh, before I go, you please be sure to let me know when/if you have given Donkey the flick, and I will do the same if AlphaCenturiAlienLostCityOfAtlantisInTactMermaidHymen and me ever have a fall out. :) She is real man. I should say that I don't foresee me and AlphaCenturiAlienLostCityOfAtlantisInTactMermaidHymen ever splitting up though, as she seems to not mind fact, truth, and "stantiation". And as you know, that's my thing. Hey MMMMG, have I told you that; "I am real and keeping it that way?" Hey MMMMG, have I told you that; "I know every iota of the boxing game?". Hey MMMMG, have I told you that; "I never make stuff as I go along?" Peace out lone PacRanger. Sorry to hear about the PacLoss. But hey, he's still a great fighter.


-Radam G :

Once again, I could literally name a hundred to a thousand pugs who were on meds for a similar injuries. The NSAC pucked up. And is now blaming tws Koncz for wrongly filling out the papers. Holla.


-stormcentre :

Once again, I could literally name a hundred to a thousand pugs who were on meds for a similar injuries. The NSAC pucked up. And is now blaming tws Koncz for wrongly filling out the papers. Holla.
OK, great, you're prepared to
substantiate. That only took 4 months. So, let's see where this goes. I bet it goes nowhere. Firstly, I dont need all those 1000 "stantiates" that you clearly have your disposal. Just one. Here we go (with all the relevant NSAC and MayPac facts) . . . . Please name one fighter then that . . . 1) Had a decent, serious, and proven, injury before a fight. 2) Kept that inury a secret (from the other party and the relevant commissions) up until the very last moment, only hours before the main event; looking for an injection that the commission itself would have difficulties determining what the difference was between its medical and performance enhancing effects. 3) Had a history with PEDs that their promoters and coaches effectively admit. 4) Sued his future potential opponent over his claims about PED use, but failed to do the same when his own coach and promoter basically confirmed he was on the juice when Floyd was sued for saying such? I won't be holding my breath on your full, accurate and complete response - but from above posts including this . . . [QUOTE=amayseng;81233]The question is why not bring it up and shed light on the corrupt and shitty NSAC??? fight 6 years in the making and the usada is well aware and on board as the nsac denies Pac a shot but then walks into the other locker room and gives Floyd one why would yiu not bring it up is the question btw im a PT so anyone claiming a torn rotator cuff is not debilitating is an absolute fool[/QUOTE] I know you won't mind approaching the subject with the completeness I have initiated with and also provided. An interesting point about the above posted Amayseng post may be that Roach, Pac and Arum are all fools; as they clearly thought they could keep the injury a secret, receive injections, and fight (regardless of receiving the injections or not). I am not going to argue with both, a PacQueen telling us that Roach, Pac and Arum are all fools, and what that says about a PacQueen. Love it !!! Thanks guys.


-stormcentre :

Oh, and this is not a must have . . more a nice to have. Please; any chance you can dive into the fight's video (Amayseng can assist as he's a PT) and point out where - when Pac uses his right arm/hand - he is debilitated from the rotator cuff (steroid injection, but only, just before the fight; and whilst Ariza has not been in his camp) injury? Oh by the way . . I have had 2 rotator cuff injuries myself. Peace out PacQueenies. Looking forward t the above first attempt at NunSubstantiating. I reckon the excuses will flow on that one just like a MayPacPacLoss2Floyd that we were all told could not ever happen. Still, I don't want to be too overconfident cause I know you have a PT up your trouser leg . . whoops I mean sleeve.


-stormcentre :

Just as I thought (above post #23); nothing. Zilch. Nudda. Zippo. Nothing. Nowhere the same amount of interest to answering your own offer (post #23) and also my acceptance of it, as there is with; hating, running, selectively looking at the PacLoss and PacSteroidJustBeforeTheFight matter, and claiming there is an injustice going on. Here you go . . . come and get it . . . . you know you’ve earned it.

Enjoy. Those "keep it real" facts in full "Snoop Doggy Dog" light and all their glory are really frighteningly scary aren't they? They cast new light on your posts, PacJuice stance, and related claims also, don't they? Keep up the great work.


-Radam G :

The NSAC is already scrambling from lawsuits. Danggit! I better catch up. I'm putting in my six cents lawsuit TODAY. The NSAC messed up and cheated people out of a possible better match with it shenanigans of denying medicine for a Pac-injury. Blaming it on tws Koncz, my arse. Tws Koncz does not run the NSAC that makes billions of dollars a year from fans paying to see the best of the best of the athletes. Holla!


-stormcentre :

The NSAC is already scrambling from lawsuits. Danggit! I better catch up. I'm putting in my six cents lawsuit TODAY. The NSAC messed up and cheated people out of a possible better match with it shenanigans of denying medicine for a Pac-injury. Blaming it on tws Koncz, my arse. Tws Koncz does not run the NSAC that makes billions of dollars a year from fans paying to see the best of the best of the athletes. Holla!
Yes, don't worry about all that rubbish and misdirection. Please provide the answer to my post #23 as per your post #22; constituting your 1st attempt to substantiate one of your claims. We await over here in Australia with abated breath. :)


-Domenic :

ESPN has a piece up stating that Pacquiao will have surgery in Los Angeles, and will be shelved for 9-12 months. It also covers everything that's already been discussed here, including the box on the medical questionnaire that specifically asks if a fighter has a shoulder injury. Pacquiao did not check the box. The NSAC said he could be fined or suspended by the commission for not answering the question on the form before the weigh-in on Friday.
->http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/12821905/manny-pacquiao-surgery-significant-tear-rotator-cuff-right-shoulder Irrespective of whether you saw Mayweather cruise to an easy victory, fairly and squarely, much easier than the Maidana fights, as I did. Or you saw Pacquiao triumphant due to being set-up and sabotaged by the nefarious NSAC and malevolent USADA, bottom line, it's over. All we have is the fight that's already been fought and recorded for boxing history. The rest is irrelevant. I'm excited that boxing is turning to the next generation. Exit stage left. Time to move on.


-stormcentre :

Yes, agree, there is little point waiting around here for the promised response, and/or a decent explanation that covers all the facts. :)


-teaser :

copy and paste patsies ?get a life ?.Pacman lost but he isn't whining just telling the truth ?He did have a reinjury to his shoulder ?maybe he could have been more aggressive ..the only time he was successful is when he went a little wild ?as for pre fight comments by either side you all know most of that is trash talk for promotion?definitely NOT the gospel truth so just give it up ?Good performance by Floyd ?did what he needed to win and no more ?sucks for us ...maybe worried about his hands ??..where was the floyd that started hurling the fireballs at Mosley? ?.next ..bring me GGG and an equally sized contender to wash the taste of this "fight " out of my mouth


-oubobcat :

I have been a fan of Pacquiao for a long time and was pulling for him in this fight. I wanted him to win but thought realistically this would be a tough match for him. He lost, plain and simple. Shoulder injury or no shoulder injury, if he fights this Mayweather 100 times he loses 100 times. I hate to say it but its true. Now this should injury...First do I doubt that its legit. No. Pacquiao had two choices as nobody ever comes into a fight 100%. The first option was to postpone. Yes he'd take heat but if there is a legitimate injury (which they are saying there is) and if he's concerned about the perception, post multiple doctors diagnosis of the injury and have the surgery. I don't think there would be many who would then doubt there was an actual injury which does happen in sports. The second option...decide that you will still go forward with the fight because you believe the injury will not affect the ultimate outcome of the bout. Hence, Pacquiao still strongly believed that he could win despite the injury. If this is your choice, there are no excuses so don't make any. You deemed you were healthy enough to fight and to win. In my opinion, what is going on here is the set up for a rematch by Top Rank. Just look at the attention and of course revenue drawn from this event. Top Rank (Bob Arum) are business people and generally very good ones. They know how to maximize revenue opportunities. They are thinking rematch right now and how to be able to sell the rematch to the public. They need to try to create doubt in people's minds on Pac's performance and why a second time things would be different. Guess what, a second fight might not be as big as the first but it would still draw large numbers. Okay very large numbers and still be bigger revenue wise than any other fight in the sport. Pacquiao is at the end of his career and well Top Rank is looking to maximize full revenue opportunities now whereas 5 to 6 years ago they were content milking the cash cow with fights he should easily win (Clottey, Margarito). This is about setting up the rematch. Its why Pac went forward with the fight with an injury (don't doubt for a second Bob Arum did not present this scenario to him). He makes money and if he loses has an excuse to set up a rematch for another massive payday. It won't happen right away of course but the seeds are now planted.


-Radam G :

I have been a fan of Pacquiao for a long time and was pulling for him in this fight. I wanted him to win but thought realistically this would be a tough match for him. He lost, plain and simple. Shoulder injury or no shoulder injury, if he fights this Mayweather 100 times he loses 100 times. I hate to say it but its true. Now this should injury...First do I doubt that its legit. No. Pacquiao had two choices as nobody ever comes into a fight 100%. The first option was to postpone. Yes he'd take heat but if there is a legitimate injury (which they are saying there is) and if he's concerned about the perception, post multiple doctors diagnosis of the injury and have the surgery. I don't think there would be many who would then doubt there was an actual injury which does happen in sports. The second option...decide that you will still go forward with the fight because you believe the injury will not affect the ultimate outcome of the bout. Hence, Pacquiao still strongly believed that he could win despite the injury. If this is your choice, there are no excuses so don't make any. You deemed you were healthy enough to fight and to win. In my opinion, what is going on here is the set up for a rematch by Top Rank. Just look at the attention and of course revenue drawn from this event. Top Rank (Bob Arum) are business people and generally very good ones. They know how to maximize revenue opportunities. They are thinking rematch right now and how to be able to sell the rematch to the public. They need to try to create doubt in people's minds on Pac's performance and why a second time things would be different. Guess what, a second fight might not be as big as the first but it would still draw large numbers. Okay very large numbers and still be bigger revenue wise than any other fight in the sport. Pacquiao is at the end of his career and well Top Rank is looking to maximize full revenue opportunities now whereas 5 to 6 years ago they were content milking the cash cow with fights he should easily win (Clottey, Margarito). This is about setting up the rematch. Its why Pac went forward with the fight with an injury (don't doubt for a second Bob Arum did not present this scenario to him). He makes money and if he loses has an excuse to set up a rematch for another massive payday. It won't happen right away of course but the seeds are now planted.
Da Manny will get surgery this week. And won't be fighting until next year. There is no plans for nothing else with Lil Floyd. Holla!


-teaser :

Floyd has the goods ?yes Manny thought he could win ?gunning for a rematch ??I think just another payday


-Radam G :

The haters, posers and bullsyetters need to shut da heck up now. Lil Floyd and company have admitted to the injury of Da Manny and da double fudge incompetence of the NSAC. So Money May is calling for a rematch in about a year with the healthy PacMan:
->http://philboxing.com/news/story-108336.html. Holla!


-amayseng :

The haters, posers and bullsyetters need to shut da heck up now. Lil Floyd and company have admitted to the injury of Da Manny and da double fudge incompetence of the NSAC. So Money May is calling for a rematch in about a year with the healthy PacMan:
->http://philboxing.com/news/story-108336.html. Holla!
Good for Floyd showing respect and dignity reaching out for a rematch when Pac is healed.


-HeNeverSawTheHookComing! :

I don't like what I'm seeing from him. I thought he was better than this, I really did. It looks more like a nefarious Arum plot than anything else, he just doesn't seem like that kind of fella. But hey, I don't know him. You never know. I just know that with his team talking all that mess beforehand, it's really not a good look to first claim victory, then when that didn't work out, claim injury. Tim Bradley didn't whinge and moan, as Carl Froch would say, he gave credit to Pacquiao. Pacquiao should do the same. Roach is really showing his true colors here.
Well said, Shadow. It is amazing how people just sweep over the facts. All the crap Roach and Arum said before the fight (matter of fact a day before the fight) then MP get's into ring and FM takes him to the school of boksing. Then when all is said and done here comes one of the weakest excuses I have ever heard "My shoulder is injured". Well if that was the case why did you fight? Why all the vitriol from you and your camp? Why is Freddie making bets guaranteeing a knockout? Why is Manny and Roach taking selfies during walk in? How in the world do you dare say you won the fight? I guess we should take MP at his word in his last commercial: I am confused!


-The Commish :

Marsa Bob Arum has said he asked the NSAC if Pacquiao could have the injured shoulder injected five days before the fight. The NSAC says it wasn't asked that question until fight night. But let's see--is Arum telling the truth? Is the NSAC? I'll go with the NSAC any day over Arum. There's a lot of questioning to be done here. Manny should have just taken his "L" and tens of millions of dollars, patted Mayweather on the back and headed to whatever hospital he'll be having surgery in. As for a rematch, there is no way that could ever happen. Manny should hang 'em up, wait five years then show up in Canastota, N.Y. for his induction into the IBHOF. Until then, I really don't want to hear him and I especially don't want to see a rematch. I'd watch Mayweather v Robert Guerrero II before I even consider watching Money v Manny II. -Randy G.


-Domenic :

Marsa Bob Arum has said he asked the NSAC if Pacquiao could have the injured shoulder injected five days before the fight. The NSAC says it wasn't asked that question until fight night. But let's see--is Arum telling the truth? Is the NSAC? I'll go with the NSAC any day over Arum. There's a lot of questioning to be done here. Manny should have just taken his "L" and tens of millions of dollars, patted Mayweather on the back and headed to whatever hospital he'll be having surgery in. As for a rematch, there is no way that could ever happen. Manny should hang 'em up, wait five years then show up in Canastota, N.Y. for his induction into the IBHOF. Until then, I really don't want to hear him and I especially don't want to see a rematch. I'd watch Mayweather v Robert Guerrero II before I even consider watching Money v Manny II. -Randy G.
Agree all the way. Floyd issued a statement -a text message to Smith at ESPN- stating that he'd welcome a rematch in a year after Pacquiao's surgery. No chance. For 6 years, both guys had made proclamation after proclamation about fighting each other, so it means zilch. I don't think the public will be so easy to forgive and forget on this one. It was a chicken dinner spoiled with salmonella. There's outrage, as people paid $100 for the PVP, and those at the windows in Vegas placed bets with material information intentionally withheld. It's not been a banner day for boxing. But forget the public's enmity toward a rematch. Even if that gargantuan hurdle is surmountable, next you're going to have to have all these parties reconvene. And the distrust will be heightened, to DEFCON 1, and Mayweather will basically demand about a 75/25 split. And it's a dead-end fight. It leads to nowhere.


-stormcentre :

The haters, posers and bullsyetters need to shut da heck up now. Lil Floyd and company have admitted to the injury of Da Manny and da double fudge incompetence of the NSAC. So Money May is calling for a rematch in about a year with the healthy PacMan:
->http://philboxing.com/news/story-108336.html. Holla!
Still waiting for your offered response to both answer my post #23, and try your 1st substantiate. It's just here . . . . . You may have overlooked it. :)
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20968-Shoulder-Statement-From-Pacquiao-and-Top-Rank&p=81240&viewfull=1#post81240 Sorry teaser - I can't help copy and pasting and keeping it real; I'm a Meth addict.


-stormcentre :

copy and paste patsies ?get a life ?.Pacman lost but he isn't whining just telling the truth ?He did have a reinjury to his shoulder ?maybe he could have been more aggressive ..the only time he was successful is when he went a little wild ?as for pre fight comments by either side you all know most of that is trash talk for promotion?definitely NOT the gospel truth so just give it up ?Good performance by Floyd ?did what he needed to win and no more ?sucks for us ...maybe worried about his hands ??..where was the floyd that started hurling the fireballs at Mosley? ?.next ..bring me GGG and an equally sized contender to wash the taste of this "fight " out of my mouth
Hey Teaser, Thanks for setting me straight. Truth is I have no life - well not like yours. I can't stop copying and pasting, just like some can't stop running over the potholes in the road and treating them like forgotten facts. :) All I do is pretend; I keep it real, know every iota of da game, make excuses, and look the other way when the facts are wheeled out. Thanks for setting me straight. PacMan may not be whining, but he's pretty much alone on that front as far as the PacQueen brigade is concerned. Peace. Agree . . . bring on another fight . . Kirkwood and Alvarez.


-stormcentre :

Agree all the way. Floyd issued a statement -a text message to Smith at ESPN- stating that he'd welcome a rematch in a year after Pacquiao's surgery. No chance. For 6 years, both guys had made proclamation after proclamation about fighting each other, so it means zilch. I don't think the public will be so easy to forgive and forget on this one. It was a chicken dinner spoiled with salmonella. There's outrage, as people paid $100 for the PVP, and those at the windows in Vegas placed bets with material information intentionally withheld. It's not been a banner day for boxing. But forget the public's enmity toward a rematch. Even if that gargantuan hurdle is surmountable, next you're going to have to have all these parties reconvene. And the distrust will be heightened, to DEFCON 1, and Mayweather will basically demand about a 75/25 split. And it's a dead-end fight. It leads to nowhere.
Hey, I thought you had had enough of this thread? :)


-stormcentre :

Well said, Shadow. It is amazing how people just sweep over the facts. All the crap Roach and Arum said before the fight (matter of fact a day before the fight) then MP get's into ring and FM takes him to the school of boksing. Then when all is said and done here comes one of the weakest excuses I have ever heard "My shoulder is injured". Well if that was the case why did you fight? Why all the vitriol from you and your camp? Why is Freddie making bets guaranteeing a knockout? Why is Manny and Roach taking selfies during walk in? How in the world do you dare say you won the fight? I guess we should take MP at his word in his last commercial: I am confused!
10/10.


-stormcentre :


PacLoss FACT CHECK
OK, now it is time to leave this thread for me. Here are my closing observations; 1) I think it is obvious MMMMG can't (and probably never will be able to properly) explain himself and what he says. 2) In boxing there is a saying, and it goes a little like this; if, when you lead with your mouth, don't cry when you get check hooked. 3) MMMMG, particularly pre MayPac took this to another level. 4) MMMMG, post MayPac is well on his way to take it to another level. 5) Arum, Top Rank, Roach, and Pac could have easily been more forthright and honest about the injury and how they handled it; possibly preventing exacerbating it and manufacturing both an excuse and the need for official and unofficial (masked or not) injections. 6) To date - as my above post #23 substantiates . . . .
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20968-Shoulder-Statement-From-Pacquiao-and-Top-Rank&p=81240&viewfull=1#post81240 - - there has not been (even an attempt at) a complete breakdown of all the facts when the Roach/Arum camp is defended, and it is remarkable that this substandard (by that I mean way, way, way, below that which all the wild and wooly PacWin & FloydHate predictions were spewed up over the course of 6 months or more) defence continuously ignores the elements of the "story" and facts so as to position itself for a winning "injection" before the debate, and of course never be wrong. 7) It has been said and agreed here before (even by PacQueens) that the best way to know whom won a fight is to not trust the judges but listen to a child. Well, one of my relations' young sons watched the fight with us and his comments were (verbatim); "how come the shorter guy can't hit the bigger darker (SC Note: no racism intended, I love all races and people) guy - but the bigger guy can hit the other one"? 8) Does anyone really believe that Arum, Top Rank, and Kontz could not have done a better job managing this obviously controversial matter? 9) With respect to what I wrote in the above point 6 and the post it refers to (that MMMMG can't completely respond to as he continues with the same line {sorry, but to borrow one of your phrases MMMMG; I am real and keeping it that way :) }); Does anyone really believe that the NSAC could have done anything else given; 9(a) All the (including those ignored) facts. 9(b) The dodgy paperwork the PacTeam and/or Arum (a savvy lawyer with decades experience both in the game and with the NSAC) handed in; including how Pac himself
failed to claim and/or not on it that he actually had an injury that required the injection - leaving the widest possible berth for excuses (and not just for performance enhancing substances found either) later. 9(c) Pac's all but completely proven history with performance enhancing substances that has not just been said to have accompanied his incredible rise through the divisions - but also accompanied his (possibly first ever in the history of the sport) maintenance of KO power as he has risen through all those weight divisions; that appears reasonably confirmed by both Arum and Roach here . . .

Check the 3 minute and 50 seconds point. 9(d) Pac's decision (no doubt in some way that involved Roach and Arum) to sue Floyd for his allegations, that we now see Pac's trainer and promoter aligning with. Pac sued Floyd when Pac knew that Floyd could not beyond a reasonable doubt prove his - now Arum, Ariza, and Roach supported - hunch. 9(10) Pac's decision to
not sue Roach and Arum when they both simultaneously, publicly released claims that not only defamed and damaged Pac (according to writ served upon Floyd), and also implicitly substantiated that Floyd's concerns about PacJuice being juiced by Ariza were most likely true 9(11) The late - just hours before the fight - verbal announcement and confirmation of Pac's "steroid requiring (and possibly other substances) injection" - an injury and injection request that the NSAC themselves found it difficult to tell what the associated (direct and indirect) PED benefits may be. Again, evidence of PacTeam and/or Arum failing to announce and treat the injury appropriately and when it
first arose and mattered, and then delivering inadequate information to another party and organization and expecting them to not only make a favorable decision (for Pac) - but also work at risk (remember my post about that legal trick) and make such an important decision with; literally no time to properly evaluate it and dodgy and blatantly misleading paperwork? All which, again, not only leaves the widest possible berth for excuses (and not just for performance enhancing substances found either) later - but also allows Arum (and Queens) to sour Floyd's victory. Had the NSAC done as Arum and Co probably expected and then Pac was found to have a PED in his system that was not accounted for by the injection, my bet is that Arum, Roach, Pac and Kontz (the same people that all said Floyd would not sign the non-existent contract, and that's why the fight was not being made; remember that PacQueens?) all would have pointed the finger at the NSAC and said, ""well we have a legitimate injury and the NSAC approved the injection"". These facts are probably why "stantiation" is so hard and why the NSAC did their job. Imagine if just say "yes" we'll let you have an injection despite all the above factors? Then they would be liable. There is a process - that Arum knows only too well - to follow. And that process is nowhere near being adhered to by the above facts that are often ignored as the ""oh we didn't lose because we were injured and Floyd ran"" excuse is wheeled out. The parts where I disconnect are these; A) How did Floyd run so much with shot legs? B) If Floyd's running was the reason Pac lost (as Pac {and his Queens} says so himself at the end of the fight), then - unless Pac runs/chases with his InjectionJustBeforeTheFight shoulder - why couldn't he catch Floyd and cut the ring off. C) How did Floyd manage to control distance and hit Pac almost whenever Floyd wanted to; if Pac's shoulder was the reason he lost? D) Why was Pac, Roach and Arum not prepared for a "running scared" man and his style; as we are told Floyd is - given all the Roach claims before the fight (which I admit were nothing to what we PacQueen had here). Sorry if the FACTS are hard to swallow. What did people expect the NSAC to do? Approach their decisions as PacQueens have? Ready, fire, aim. Without deep thought and good utilization of not only the 6 months or so that marked out the lead up to the MayPac fight - but also without using that knowledge that exists about both fighters and all their previous fights? Cheers to both realists and the dreamers out there, Cheers,
StormCentre. Social Avenger For MayPac Evenhandedness & Balance. Part-Time Freedom Fighter In Relation To; Freedom Of Speech, Da PacCultMovement, & The ProactivePacLossExcuseMakingMovement.


-stormcentre :


PacLoss FACT CHECK
OK, now it is time to leave this thread for me. Here are my closing observations; 1) I think it is obvious MMMMG can't (and probably never will be able to properly) explain himself and what he says. 2) In boxing there is a saying, and it goes a little like this; if, when you lead with your mouth, don't cry when you get check hooked. 3) MMMMG, particularly pre MayPac took this to another level. 4) MMMMG, post MayPac is well on his way to take it to another level. 5) Arum, Top Rank, Roach, and Pac could have easily been more forthright and honest about the injury and how they handled it; possibly preventing exacerbating it and manufacturing both an excuse and the need for official and unofficial (masked or not) injections. 6) To date - as my above post #23 substantiates . . . .
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20968-Shoulder-Statement-From-Pacquiao-and-Top-Rank&p=81240&viewfull=1#post81240 - - there has not been (even an attempt at) a complete breakdown of all the facts when the Roach/Arum camp is defended, and it is remarkable that this substandard (by that I mean way, way, way, below that which all the wild and wooly PacWin & FloydHate predictions were spewed up over the course of 6 months or more) defence continuously ignores the elements of the "story" and facts so as to position itself for a winning "injection" before the debate, and of course never be wrong. 7) It has been said and agreed here before (even by PacQueens) that the best way to know whom won a fight is to not trust the judges but listen to a child. Well, one of my relations' young sons watched the fight with us and his comments were (verbatim); "how come the shorter guy can't hit the bigger darker (SC Note: no racism intended, I love all races and people) guy - but the bigger guy can hit the other one"? 8) Does anyone really believe that Arum, Top Rank, and Kontz could not have done a better job managing this obviously controversial matter? 9) With respect to what I wrote in the above point 6 and the post it refers to (that MMMMG can't completely respond to as he continues with the same line {sorry, but to borrow one of your phrases MMMMG; I am real and keeping it that way :) }); Does anyone really believe that the NSAC could have done anything else given; 9(a) All the (including those ignored) facts. 9(b) The dodgy paperwork the PacTeam and/or Arum (a savvy lawyer with decades experience both in the game and with the NSAC) handed in; including how Pac himself
failed to claim and/or not on it that he actually had an injury that required the injection - leaving the widest possible berth for excuses (and not just for performance enhancing substances found either) later. 9(c) Pac's all but completely proven history with performance enhancing substances that has not just been said to have accompanied his incredible rise through the divisions - but also accompanied his (possibly first ever in the history of the sport) maintenance of KO power as he has risen through all those weight divisions; that appears reasonably confirmed by both Arum and Roach here . . .

Check the 3 minute and 50 seconds point. 9(d) Pac's decision (no doubt in some way that involved Roach and Arum) to sue Floyd for his allegations, that we now see Pac's trainer and promoter aligning with. Pac sued Floyd when Pac knew that Floyd could not beyond a reasonable doubt prove his - now Arum, Ariza, and Roach supported - hunch. 9(10) Pac's decision to
not sue Roach and Arum when they both simultaneously, publicly released claims that not only defamed and damaged Pac (according to writ served upon Floyd), and also implicitly substantiated that Floyd's concerns about PacJuice being juiced by Ariza were most likely true 9(11) The late - just hours before the fight - verbal announcement and confirmation of Pac's "steroid requiring (and possibly other substances) injection" - an injury and injection request that the NSAC themselves found it difficult to tell what the associated (direct and indirect) PED benefits may be. Again, evidence of PacTeam and/or Arum failing to announce and treat the injury appropriately and when it
first arose and mattered, and then delivering inadequate information to another party and organization and expecting them to not only make a favorable decision (for Pac) - but also work at risk (remember my post about that legal trick) and make such an important decision with; literally no time to properly evaluate it and dodgy and blatantly misleading paperwork? All which, again, not only leaves the widest possible berth for excuses (and not just for performance enhancing substances found either) later - but also allows Arum (and Queens) to sour Floyd's victory. Had the NSAC done as Arum and Co probably expected and then Pac was found to have a PED in his system that was not accounted for by the injection, my bet is that Arum, Roach, Pac and Kontz (the same people that all said Floyd would not sign the non-existent contract, and that's why the fight was not being made; remember that PacQueens?) all would have pointed the finger at the NSAC and said, ""well we have a legitimate injury and the NSAC approved the injection"". These facts are probably why "stantiation" is so hard and why the NSAC did their job. Imagine if just say "yes" we'll let you have an injection despite all the above factors? Then they would be liable. There is a process - that Arum knows only too well - to follow. And that process is nowhere near being adhered to by the above facts that are often ignored as the ""oh we didn't lose because we were injured and Floyd ran"" excuse is wheeled out. The parts where I disconnect are these; A) How did Floyd run so much with shot legs? B) If Floyd's running was the reason Pac lost (as Pac {and his Queens} says so himself at the end of the fight), then - unless Pac runs/chases with his InjectionJustBeforeTheFight shoulder - why couldn't he catch Floyd and cut the ring off. C) How did Floyd manage to control distance and hit Pac almost whenever Floyd wanted to; if Pac's shoulder was the reason he lost? D) Why was Pac, Roach and Arum not prepared for a "running scared" man and his style; as we are told Floyd is - given all the Roach claims before the fight (which I admit were nothing to what we PacQueen had here). Sorry if the FACTS are hard to swallow. What did people expect the NSAC to do? Approach their decisions as PacQueens have? Ready, fire, aim. Without deep thought and good utilization of not only the 6 months or so that marked out the lead up to the MayPac fight - but also without using that knowledge that exists about both fighters and all their previous fights? Cheers to both realists and the dreamers out there, Cheers,
StormCentre. Social Avenger For MayPac Evenhandedness & Balance. Part-Time Freedom Fighter In Relation To; Freedom Of Speech, Da PacCultMovement, & The ProactivePacLossExcuseMakingMovement.


-stormcentre :


PacLoss FACT CHECK
OK, now it is time to leave this thread for me. Here are my closing observations. PacQueens look the other way as this post will not make you happy. :) OK, here goes . . . . 1) I think it is obvious MMMMG can't (and probably never will be able to properly) explain himself and what he says. 2) In boxing there is a saying, and it goes a little like this; if, when you lead with your mouth, don't cry when you get check hooked. 3) MMMMG, particularly pre MayPac took this to another level. 4) MMMMG, post MayPac is well on his way to take it to another level. 5) Arum, Top Rank, Roach, and Pac could have easily been more forthright and honest about the injury and how they handled it; possibly preventing exacerbating it and manufacturing both an excuse and the need for official and unofficial (masked or not) injections. 6) To date - as my above post #23 substantiates . . . .
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20968-Shoulder-Statement-From-Pacquiao-and-Top-Rank&p=81240&viewfull=1#post81240 - - there has not been (even an attempt at) a complete breakdown of all the facts when the Roach/Arum camp is defended, and it is remarkable that this substandard (by that I mean way, way, way, below that which all the wild and wooly PacWin & FloydHate predictions were spewed up over the course of 6 months or more) defence continuously ignores the elements of the "story" and facts so as to position itself for a winning "injection" before the debate, and of course never be wrong. 7) It has been said and agreed here before (even by PacQueens) that the best way to know whom won a fight is to not trust the judges but listen to a child. Well, one of my relations' young sons watched the fight with us and his comments were (verbatim); "how come the shorter guy can't hit the bigger *darker guy - but the bigger guy can easily hit the other one"? (*SC Note: no racism intended, I love all races and people, and have friends of all colors and nationalities). 8) Does anyone really believe that Arum, Top Rank, and Kontz could not have done a better job managing this obviously controversial matter? 9) With respect to what I wrote in the above point 6 and the post it refers to (that MMMMG can't completely respond to as he continues with the same line {sorry, but to borrow one of your phrases MMMMG; I am real and keeping it that way :) }); Does anyone really believe that the NSAC could have done anything else given; 9(a) All the (including those ignored) facts. 9(b) The dodgy paperwork the PacTeam and/or Arum (a savvy lawyer with decades experience both in the game and with the NSAC) handed in; including how Pac himself
failed to claim and/or not on it that he actually had an injury that required the injection - leaving the widest possible berth for excuses (and not just for performance enhancing substances found either) later. 9(c) Pac's all but completely proven history with performance enhancing substances that has not just been said to have accompanied his incredible rise through the divisions - but also accompanied his (possibly first ever in the history of the sport) maintenance of KO power as he has risen through all those weight divisions; that appears reasonably confirmed by both Arum and Roach here . . .

Check the 3 minute and 50 seconds point. 9(d) Pac's decision (no doubt in some way that involved Roach and Arum) to sue Floyd for his allegations, that we now see Pac's trainer and promoter aligning with. Pac sued Floyd when Pac knew that Floyd could not beyond a reasonable doubt prove his - now Arum, Ariza, and Roach supported - hunch. 9(10) Pac's decision to
not sue Roach and Arum when they both simultaneously, publicly released claims that not only defamed and damaged Pac (according to writ served upon Floyd), and also implicitly substantiated that Floyd's concerns about PacJuice being juiced by Ariza were most likely true 9(11) The late - just hours before the fight - verbal announcement and confirmation of Pac's "steroid requiring (and possibly other substances) injection" - an injury and injection request that the NSAC themselves found it difficult to tell what the associated (direct and indirect) PED benefits may be. Again, evidence of PacTeam and/or Arum failing to announce and treat the injury appropriately and when it
first arose and mattered, and then delivering inadequate information to another party and organization and expecting them to not only make a favorable decision (for Pac) - but also work at risk (remember my post about that legal trick) and make such an important decision with; literally no time to properly evaluate it and dodgy and blatantly misleading paperwork? All which, again, not only leaves the widest possible berth for excuses (and not just for performance enhancing substances found either) later - but also allows Arum (and Queens) to sour Floyd's victory. Had the NSAC done as Arum and Co probably expected and then Pac was found to have a PED in his system that was not accounted for by the injection, my bet is that Arum, Roach, Pac and Kontz (the same people that all said Floyd would not sign the non-existent contract, and that's why the fight was not being made; remember that PacQueens?) all would have pointed the finger at the NSAC and said, ""well we have a legitimate injury and the NSAC approved the injection"". These facts are probably why "stantiation" is so hard and why the NSAC did their job. Imagine if the NSAC just said; "yes" we'll let you have an injection despite all the above factors - no worries PacBob? Then they themselves would be liable. There is a process - that Arum knows only too well - to follow. And that process is nowhere near being adhered to by the above facts that are often ignored as the ""oh we didn't lose because we were injured and Floyd ran"" excuse is wheeled out. The parts where I disconnect are these; A) How did Floyd run so much with shot legs? B) If Floyd's running was the reason Pac lost (as Pac {and his Queens} says so himself at the end of the fight), then - unless Pac runs/chases with his InjectionJustBeforeTheFight shoulder - why couldn't he catch Floyd and cut the ring off. C) How did Floyd manage to control distance and hit Pac almost whenever Floyd wanted to; if Pac's shoulder was the reason he lost? D) Why was Pac, Roach and Arum not prepared for a "running scared" man and his style; as we are told Floyd is - given all the Roach claims before the fight (which I admit were nothing to what we PacQueen had here). Sorry if the FACTS are hard to swallow. What did people expect the NSAC to do? Approach their decisions as PacQueens have? Ready, fire, aim. Without deep thought and good utilization of not only the 6 months or so that marked out the lead up to the MayPac fight - but also without using that knowledge that exists about both fighters and all their previous fights? Cheers to both realists and the dreamers out there, Cheers,
StormCentre. Social Avenger For MayPac Evenhandedness & Balance. Part-Time Freedom Fighter In Relation To; Freedom Of Speech, Da PacCultMovement, & The ProactivePacLossExcuseMakingMovement.


-Kid Blast :

For those who question whether Manny could fight with an injured shoulder, I suggest they watch footage of the Mark Potter-Danny Williams fight.


-Domenic :

For those who question whether Manny could fight with an injured shoulder, I suggest they watch footage of the Mark Potter-Danny Williams fight.
Good call Kid Blast. Danny Williams KO'd Potter with a left uppercut with a dislocated right shoulder. Serious, serious heart that dude had.


-The Shadow :

For those who question whether Manny could fight with an injured shoulder, I suggest they watch footage of the Mark Potter-Danny Williams fight.
What happened in that fight? One guy fought hurt? Either way, in this fight I saw Manny pound his fists together in frustration -- you know that thing he does after he gets hit, but only harder -- after a late round where he was chasing Floyd and getting hit while in pursuit. Then once the final bell run, he incredulously -- and incredbily, apparently -- raised his arms in "victory." I also saw no concern, no mention or even sign of it in between rounds. No wince. No grimace. Or in the public workouts or tons of workout videos released leading up to the fight. Now if he indeed does have a bum shoulder, it probably came from swinging and missing all night. That's certainly a possibility. But even then, isn't that a credit to his opponent's defense? That he made him miss so bad his arm fell out the socket, that he tore up his ligaments, that it drained his spinal fluids, damn near ended his life. Again, if it really was that bad, then it was a courageous display by a wonderful fighter. But his coach should've really just stayed quiet and not promised the fistic equivalent of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. (Instead he sodomized the consumer with his verbal gonorrhea.) I honestly think they overshot how much people really want to discredit his opponent (including those repulsive God vs Devil depictions rotating before the bout) and it came back to bite them in the behind. Anyway, please shoot a link, would love to see it.


-Domenic :

What happened in that fight? One guy fought hurt? Either way, in this fight I saw Manny pound his fists together in frustration -- you know that thing he does after he gets hit, but only harder -- after a late round where he was chasing Floyd and getting hit while in pursuit. Then once the final bell run, he incredulously -- and incredbily, apparently -- raised his arms in "victory." I also saw no concern, no mention or even sign of it in between rounds. No wince. No grimace. Or in the public workouts or tons of workout videos released leading up to the fight. Now if he indeed does have a bum shoulder, it probably came from swinging and missing all night. That's certainly a possibility. But even then, isn't that a credit to his opponent's defense? That he made him miss so bad his arm fell out the socket, that he tore up his ligaments, that it drained his spinal fluids, damn near ended his life. Again, if it really was that bad, then it was a courageous display by a wonderful fighter. But his coach should've just stayed quiet and not promised the fistic equivalent of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. I honestly think they overshot how much people really want to discredit his opponent (including those repulsive God vs Devil depictions rotating before the bout) and it came back to bite them in the behind. Anyway, please shoot a link, would love to see it.
Here's the link man.
->http://youtu.be/IegMa34DJLI Superb comment too. Especially this: "Now if he indeed does have a bum shoulder, it probably came from swinging and missing all night. That's certainly a possibility." After all, he was examined prior to the fight -no injury- and they asserted 'No' on the questionnaire. Maybe something minute was there and it was exacerbated due to missing wildly (which would be a credit to Floyd), or the genesis happened in the ring due to said misses.


-Radam G :

No sense in beating a dead horse. Posers pose. Haters hate. Bullsyetters bullsyet. And fakers fake. Even Money May has said that Da Manny fought with a bum shoulder and it would have been all right for him to take a shot. And that is all you need to hear. End of discussion. Self denial for wanting to be not dead wrong is a bytch. Holla!


-HeNeverSawTheHookComing! :

What happened in that fight? One guy fought hurt? Either way, in this fight I saw Manny pound his fists together in frustration -- you know that thing he does after he gets hit, but only harder -- after a late round where he was chasing Floyd and getting hit while in pursuit. Then once the final bell run, he incredulously -- and incredbily, apparently -- raised his arms in "victory." I also saw no concern, no mention or even sign of it in between rounds. No wince. No grimace. Or in the public workouts or tons of workout videos released leading up to the fight. Now if he indeed does have a bum shoulder, it probably came from swinging and missing all night. That's certainly a possibility. But even then, isn't that a credit to his opponent's defense? That he made him miss so bad his arm fell out the socket, that he tore up his ligaments, that it drained his spinal fluids, damn near ended his life. Again, if it really was that bad, then it was a courageous display by a wonderful fighter. But his coach should've really just stayed quiet and not promised the fistic equivalent of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. (Instead he sodomized the consumer with his verbal gonorrhea.) I honestly think they overshot how much people really want to discredit his opponent (including those repulsive God vs Devil depictions rotating before the bout) and it came back to bite them in the behind. Anyway, please shoot a link, would love to see it.
Great points, TS. Especially this one:
Then once the final bell run, he incredulously -- and incredbily, apparently -- raised his arms in "victory." When you have a torn rotator cuff injury it is hard to raise your arms to mid chest level.


-Radam G :

Great points, TS. Especially this one:
Then once the final bell run, he incredulously -- and incredbily, apparently -- raised his arms in "victory." When you have a torn rotator cuff injury it is hard to raise your arms to mid chest level.
Bullsyet! You have never been an athlete or military person? Apparently not at tops. Or you will know that adrenaline assist even a dead person in raising his whole arse. You are being pathetic with extreme hateful self denial. Don't make yourself look this. Larry Holmes won the world heavyweight title on a bum shoulder. And did not only raise his arms, but jumped in a swimming pool. American footballers and basketballers have played whole cames with torn rotator cuffs and raised their arms. My friend, your are either naive to athletes and military peeps, or you have had slip because of Pac-hating. Even the ex military amateur boxers and wrestler B-Sug will tell you about athletes or military man on adrenaline. Any true athlete in this Universe will tell you that. Only the posers and fakers and hypocrites willngive you kudos, big fives, and jive supports. Be like your icon/idol Money May and quit the hating. He has straight-up said that he "knew of the injury of Pacquaio," and that he would be glad to scrap with the fully healthy one. I'm not going even put the stories or videos, because with haters and posers, you are beating a dead horse. That is why Money May doesn't even like their arses. Holla!


-The Shadow :

Great points, TS. Especially this one:
Then once the final bell run, he incredulously -- and incredbily, apparently -- raised his arms in "victory." When you have a torn rotator cuff injury it is hard to raise your arms to mid chest level.
This is an interesting comparison, to say the least. And Kobe Bryant is a tough SOB.


-Radam G :

This is an interesting comparison, to say the least. And Kobe Bryant is a tough SOB.
I missed your point. Besides, any expert puncher will tell you that Da Manny was half-arse throwing his right hand. And bytch flailing with it. Ask Gerry Cooney. It is not rocket science. Or kids on the playground with "gotcha" tude. This Universe has deteriorated since the contest ended, and at the announcement of the MayPac Scrap. You have people up in here trying to pass all type of syet as boxing now. Hehehe! And now even the worst sites are laughing at TSS now. Shame! Shame! Shame! Holla!


-amayseng :

Bullsyet! You have never been an athlete or military person? Apparently not at tops. Or you will know that adrenaline assist even a dead person in raising his whole arse. You are being pathetic with extreme hateful self denial. Don't make yourself look this. Larry Holmes won the world heavyweight title on a bum shoulder. And did not only raise his arms, but jumped in a swimming pool. American footballers and basketballers have played whole cames with torn rotator cuffs and raised their arms. My friend, your are either naive to athletes and military peeps, or you have had slip because of Pac-hating. Even the ex military amateur boxers and wrestler B-Sug will tell you about athletes or military man on adrenaline. Any true athlete in this Universe will tell you that. Only the posers and fakers and hypocrites willngive you kudos, big fives, and jive supports. Be like your icon/idol Money May and quit the hating. He has straight-up said that he "knew of the injury of Pacquaio," and that he would be glad to scrap with the fully healthy one. I'm not going even put the stories or videos, because with haters and posers, you are beating a dead horse. That is why Money May doesn't even like their arses. Holla!
Wow I have been in physical therapy rehab as a professional for nearly ten years. What does this fool know about a shoulder rotator cuff tear? Let alone the extent and type of tear Pac suffered??? what a foolish foolish statement to make. This forum has gone down hill drastically. It is becoming embarrassing.


-The Shadow :

I missed your point. Besides, any expert puncher will tell you that Da Manny was half-arse throwing his right hand. And bytch flailing with it. Ask Gerry Cooney. It is not rocket science. Or kids on the playground with "gotcha" tude. This Universe has deteriorated since the contest ended, and at the announcement of the MayPac Scrap. You have people up in here trying to pass all type of syet as boxing now. Hehehe! And now even the worst sites are laughing at TSS now. Shame! Shame! Shame! Holla!
Can't argue with that.


-The Shadow :

Wow I have been in physical therapy rehab as a professional for nearly ten years. What does this fool know about a shoulder rotator cuff tear? Let alone the extent and type of tear Pac suffered??? what a foolish foolish statement to make. This forum has gone down hill drastically. It is becoming embarrassing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you the advocate for civility and not calling names? If this "fool" you speak of is so ignorant of injury, why don't you share your 10 years of experience to enlighten said fool? Isn't that the cornerstone of the forum, the exchange of valuable knowledge?


-brownsugar :

@ Shadow agreed, attack the idea not the person.... I personally enjoyed the fight... But its important to note that even though Floyd had a significant percentage advantage on Compubox, the fight also profuced the lowest punch count connect rate Floyd ever had...with the next lowest connect rate being Floyd vs Castillo #1 at 157 punches landed versus only 148 punches landed versus Pacquioa. Floyd paid Manny high praise by saying that Pac had high intelligence which forced him to pay very close attention because Pac is adept at setting a variety of traps for the left hand. Floyd must be getting near the end of his career because he's been divulging a slew of his own trade secrets like: Floyd Mayweather secrets to endurance and fitness, along with details of his preparation for Manny and a comprehensive blueprint of how to defeat Manny's style. Floyd said he didn't watch film but he got a very detailed scouting report and they had a bunch of sparring partners emulating the various ways Pac throws the left hand and its many set ups. Floyd says Manny like to press and once he gets his victim trapped on the ropes or standing in one spot he throw the left straight...as a looping shot,... or he slides off in a lateral direction while slipping in the punch from an unexpected angle... Floyd said he respected Manny's offensive capabilities. Its funny because Manny's other opponents prepare by slithering under barbedwire, running hurdles over burning lava pits, and engaging in the most cutting edge training regimen, Floyd's camp actually disected everyone of Manny's moves and prepare a response to every one Floyd already knows all the moves....training camp is used to acclimate Floyd's to Manny's style of boxing. Interesting stuff...now I see why Floyd is so secretive in training...and its also interesting to know that success in camp is not just simply a product of beating up sparring partners. Those guys run a scientific laboratory in camp. Even though theirs a cloud of asterkists over the fight, I'm appreciating Floyd's abilities even more.


-amayseng :

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you the advocate for civility and not calling names? If this "fool" you speak of is so ignorant of injury, why don't you share your 10 years of experience to enlighten said fool? Isn't that the cornerstone of the forum, the exchange of valuable knowledge?
No thanks he can google it after such foolish remarks. There is no correcting you Shadow, you have never been wrong.


-HeNeverSawTheHookComing! :

Wow I have been in physical therapy rehab as a professional for nearly ten years. What does this fool know about a shoulder rotator cuff tear? Let alone the extent and type of tear Pac suffered??? what a foolish foolish statement to make. This forum has gone down hill drastically. It is becoming embarrassing.
You are a funny dude! Maybe I should have expanded my answer about the rotator cuff injury (partial tear or complete tear), but the way MP and his team has been acting one could believe it was a complete tear! No problem I can take the criticism. Grow up little boy and stop being a hyprocrit! One day your Christian and the next day you are Alistair Crowley. Now you Google that.


-amayseng :

You are a funny dude! Maybe I shokuld have expanded my answer about the rotator cuff injury (partial tear or complete tear), but the way MP and his team has been acting one could believe it was a complete tear! No problem I can take the criticism. Grow up little boy and stop being a hyprocrit! One day your Christian and the next day you are Alistair Crowley. Now you Google that.
I didn't know all that included in a rotator cuff injury was limited to the extent of a partial or complete tear. Huh . All those years of school for nothing. Thanks. Also didn?t know a christian can't look at an uneducated and embarrassing statement and think wow how foolish. Any other biblical or anatomical and physiology lessons you want to give me I'm all ears.


-The Shadow :

I didn't know all that included in a rotator cuff injury was limited to the extent of a partial or complete tear. Huh . All those years of school for nothing. Thanks.
Also didn’t know a christian can't look at an uneducated and embarrassing statement and think wow how foolish. Any other biblical or anatomical and physiology lessons you want to give me I'm all ears.
I'm not trying to be snarky but that's how I felt every time someone was trying to disparagingly downplay my take on #MayPac (with name calling, in fact, including yourself), even though the outcome turned out to be non-competitive, which I predicted and took a bunch of crap for. In fact, a lot of pre-fight statements looked "uneducated and embarrassing" in retrospect, such as Mayweather being scared, holding up the fight (which I knew wasn't the case), and so forth. And yes, I've been wrong, I was wrong about Kovalev and your take was right. Remember? I wasn't afraid [URL="http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?18214-I-was-wrong&highlight=shadow+wrong">to admit it either. [/URL] And had Pacquiao won I wouldn't have had a problem paying my respects to him (although he of course doesn't need it and couldn't care less). Wish others could pay the same respect, especially when you consider people said my take, which was in the unpopular minority, (though that is exactly how it played out) was Money Team favoritism, I'm sitting with a TMT hat on hugging on Floyd's nuts, etc etc. Anyway, back on topic. I personally would love to hear a breakdown on how he can fight with it because that video doesn't convince me. And he's lied too many times before for me to give him the benefit of the doubt. If anything, I'd like to hear it to learn. Even fueled by adrenaline, is it really possible to fight like he did with a tear, raise the hands and not even wince?


-amayseng :

I'm not trying to be snarky but that's how I felt every time someone was trying to disparagingly downplay my take on #MayPac (with name calling, in fact, including yourself), even though the outcome turned out to be non-competitive, which I predicted and took a bunch of crap for. In fact, a lot of pre-fight statements looked "uneducated and embarrassing" in retrospect, such as Mayweather being scared, holding up the fight (which I knew wasn't the case), and so forth. And yes, I've been wrong, I was wrong about Kovalev and your take was right. Remember? I wasn't afraid [URL="http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?18214-I-was-wrong&highlight=shadow+wrong">to admit it either. [/URL] And had Pacquiao won I wouldn't have had a problem paying my respects to him (although he of course doesn't need it and couldn't care less). Wish others could pay the same respect, especially when you consider people said my take, which was in the unpopular minority, (though that is exactly how it played out) was Money Team favoritism, I'm sitting with a TMT hat on hugging on Floyd's nuts, etc etc. Anyway, back on topic. I personally would love to hear a breakdown on how he can fight with it because that video doesn't convince me. And he's lied too many times before for me to give him the benefit of the doubt. If anything, I'd like to hear it to learn. Even fueled by adrenaline, is it really possible to fight like he did with a tear, raise the hands and not even wince?
First off, having a debate and conversation about how a fight will go or end is not downplaying anyone's opinion. That is what we do, debate, converse, give an idea, receive an idea. Everybody is wrong at some point. I never called you any names, if I did it was possibly out of being sarcastic in light fun. NO one is looked down upon for being wrong when guessing how a fight will go. It is a fight, anything can happen. I was also wrong about Kovalev vs Bhop. I thought Bhop's savy and ring iq would guide him to a UD, Hell I went to that fight, rooted for Bhop and he got white washed. No matter, he is still one of my favorite fighters ever. There is nothing negative about being wrong. No one is punished or looked down upon for choosing wrong. I don't know anything, I am here to learn. Bsug and Rg along with Mortcola and a few others have been my teachers. What I do know though are injuries. I know them from playing at elite levels and I am now educated on how to rehab them. Another thing, Floyd vs Pac was actually a very very close fight when you turn off the sound and slow it down. Floyd is a phenom at rolling and diminishing contact, he is an absolute master. I had to slow mo and pause numerous sequences to see Pac was actually catching Floyd with some shots that I thought he missed in regular time. That is a compliment to Floyd. I still had it 7-5 for Floyd. Finally, Shadow you boxed enough to know that when Floyd is exiting to a southpaws right, Pac in this case to stay away from the left hand, it is Pacs job to use the right hook to either catch him or force him back towards his left power hand. Pac never did this. Why? This is the elite of the elite. I was asking round after round for Pac to do that, he did not throw many right hooks at all. why wouldnt he? He rocked Floyd in the 4th round with a pull counter left ala Floyd and staggered him back to the ropes where Floyd was clearly hurt and covered up. Pac threw thunderous shots with both hands and right hooks and then backed off Floyd. Why?? Because of the injured right shoulder, even if you tire throwing a combo you don't back off a hurt fighter, u dont let him off the hook, you stay, feint, keep your opponent in defensive position to expend energy and continue to control the round and give yourself another opportunity to hit him again. Pac walked back to the middle of the ring letting Floyd off immediately I believe because the right shoulder was giving him trouble. I mean Pac won that round handily then came out the very next round and did NOT do a single thing he barely threw a punch. Why? Injury. If the right shoulder was healthy would he beat Floyd? Who knows, he would for sure have a better chance, you can't be less than 100% and beat a master like Mayweather. No way. Finally, if you give me the exact muscles, ligaments, tendons that were injured, their exact detriment then I can give you an estimation of what Pac could or could not do ROM wise. However, this is not a mathematical equation. Two people can have the exact same injuries and display some physical differences in ability. Pain tolerance, nerve conduction, inflammation and the such. Do I think Pac was faking an injury in which sparring partners state they knew about it and went home early? Where it was reported to the USADA at that time and there are reported to be mri's dated back to a specialist with the diagnosis.. No I do not believe he was faking it. But what do I know, no much.


-Radam G :

Another view: Not for Money May;
->https://m.YouTube.com/watch?v=5Cd7Ot8PBGY. That's some slick retort. Area 51 $yet! Funny as triple heck. Holla!


-Chris L :

I don't understand it. First the fight doesn't happen for five years, largely in part for the reason that Pac can't go near a needle anyday near fight day since it 'weakens him and makes him useless'. But now there is controversy because he wasn't allowed an injection 1.5 hours before the fight?


-The Shadow :

I don't understand it. First the fight doesn't happen for five years, largely in part for the reason that Pac can't go near a needle anyday near fight day since it 'weakens him and makes him useless'. But now there is controversy because he wasn't allowed an injection 1.5 hours before the fight?
Exactly. Isn't that something? Everything is becoming easier to believe with each passing day.


-deepwater2 :

Withdrawing blood against morales did something against PAC wether real or not. Injecting a medicine Floyd injects daily is not the same. Smarten up wise guys.


-Radam G :

I don't understand it. First the fight doesn't happen for five years, largely in part for the reason that Pac can't go near a needle anyday near fight day since it 'weakens him and makes him useless'. But now there is controversy because he wasn't allowed an injection 1.5 hours before the fight?
Don't believe every nonsense fib that you hear from haters, posers, nut cases and fakers not in the loop of the poop. They don't have a darn scoop. If Da Manny was so scared of needles, why does he have so many tattoos? Also, and, when you travel from the Philippines to the mainland USA, you have to take updated vaccinations with "needles." Da Manny allegedly being scared of needles is not only a lie, but a made-up d@mn lie MADE UP BY MAYWEATHER PROPAGANDISTS. In boxing, lies are told by lazies and non researchers, and of course posers and fakers, until they are believed as the truth. I'm reminded of the lie about the late, great Angie Dundee cutting a hole in the glove of the young Cassius Clay after a knock down. And three to five minutes passed before another glove was brought to the squared jungle, giving Clay time to recover. YUP! NYET! Holla!


-deepwater2 :

Getting a damn tat is different from withdrawing a large amount of blood. It is wha it is.


-amayseng :

Withdrawing blood against morales did something against PAC wether real or not. Injecting a medicine Floyd injects daily is not the same. Smarten up wise guys.
Good God agreed. Having blood taken numerous times up to and even on the day of the fight can be detrimental. Since when how is having a pain numbing injection the same thing?


-Radam G :

Once a person believes a LIE, and the person is prejudices too, that lie will stick like super glue. And virtually will not come a loose. Holla!


-deepwater2 :

Hey guys , I boxed with stitches in my hand and lied about it. I held up my right hand twice because the doc wasn't paying attention. My back was injured, my hand was hurt, my elbow hurt , my calf was ripped. A fighter gets in the damn ring. I boxed guys 30 lbs heavier and I shut up. In a super fight I wished Pac postponed it but a boxer fights. Hey shadow I weigh 180. I'm 41. What's your excuse not to spar? Commish will set it up with 16 oz gloves. ...?."...?..


-deepwater2 :

I will give you your $20 either way, but let's go a few rounds.


-Radam G :

My boy Max Kellerman told it all tonight. "Da hurt Manny manned up and fought with an injury. And still won four rounds on two judges cards." At fault for a less than exciting scrap was the NSAC -- D@MN CROOKS! Let's get real with it. The NSAC should have let Da Manny take the D@mn shots. And grown-arse ought to quit following the narrative of "scared-of- needles" syet. Holla


-Radam G :

Good God agreed. Having blood taken numerous times up to and even on the day of the fight can be detrimental. Since when how is having a pain numbing injection the same thing?
When a prejudice exists, there is an immense blindness to the actuality of the reality. Putting in medicine and taking out blood is the same thing to haters, posers, fakers, etc., etc. They will tell you the most amazing nonsense. And believe that they are being sensible. Holla!


-stormcentre :

When a prejudice exists, there is an immense blindness to the actuality of the reality. Putting in medicine and taking out blood is the same thing to haters, posers, fakers, etc., etc.
They will tell you the most amazing nonsense. And believe that they are being sensible. Holla!
Wow . . coming from you? Brilliant. That's going straight to your . . . "I never make stuff up & know every Iota of the (30,000 times per minute cinnamon circulation) boxing game" E&HHOF.
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20462-Tally-List-Of-Un-Substantiated-Posts&p=79438&viewfull=1#post79438 And, even without all your (and we're talking {at least} tens of, if not hundreds of . . . . ) unexplained, unbelievable, (100%) inaccurate/extreme PacWin predictions, and unanswered WildPacQueenPosts . . . . . Including those you have offered (see below links) and/or claimed to explain (then galloped away and/or ran from); which means Donkey (perhaps unsurprisingly) sometimes cant explain . . why it is that he can't explain. . . . . . . . mathematically that's a "can't explain" squared :) . Or . . . A "NunSubstantiate" squared. Or the square root of a negative number, which as you - of self proclaimed scientific (neva make stuff up) mind must surely know - is either "J" or "I". [QUOTE=Radam G;81628]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?21048-RED-HOT-ACTION-Canelo-Steamrolls-Kirkland-in-PPV-Worthy-Scrap&p=81628&viewfull=1#post81628 I have no doubt
in my boksing and scientific mind that "The Mandingo Warrior" cannot go into hell war behavior stability without the sweaty, strong smell and scent of trainer Ann "The Mermaid" Wolfe's estrogen and progesterone blaasting into his nostrils and turning him into a stalking, squared jungle killa. I syet you not! [/QUOTE] Regardless, (of whether you syet us not with your "DonkeyScience") in anyone's consistent language; that's just Pure (hypocritical . . . hide . . run . . from the truth/facts) Gold. Thanks Madam. ("
DonkeyWonderlandMagicPacJuiceSecret: I know Amayseng helped you and spurred you on with some of this "good work" so, in recognition of that, we will work out a little prize and HoF for him too. Don't worry, like a good movie, that's also going to be coming to a thread/post near you soon !!!!") OK, you know what happens now don't you? I know you do. OK . .. come and get him . . . Here s/he is . . .

Donkey . . . . Just "stantiation" specially for (hypocritical . . ""OMG the universe is deteriorating"" {but not from what I say}) you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20968-Shoulder-Statement-From-Pacquiao-and-Top-Rank&p=81486&viewfull=1#post81486 ("
DonkeyWonderlandMagicPacJuiceSecret: even if this galloping wild, "DonkeyWonderlandDeterioratingPacMakeBeliveUniverse" claim is not as unproven and unreliable as all the rest of the posts from the same author, geez, who do you reckon "they" might be DonkeyLaughing at?"). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also, here is a trip down NunHypoMemoryPacCritical lane.

PS: BTW, one (PacJuiceLossIgnored) reason that some folk put "PacHatesNeedles" together with "PacCan'tGiveBloodWhenBothDrugTest&Ariza" is near . . is . . . .. that is . . . if you cats "DodgyNSACform" remember properly . . . because one of the reasons initially given for "PacRefusePEDTest" was . . . that he didn't like needles; "PacQueenHypocrisy" despite being tattooed. As Roy Jones said . . . . Yawl musta 4got. So . . yes . . . ""When a PacJuiceDodgyNSCAformPrejudice exists, there is an DonkeyImmense blindness to the "MermaidHymen Actuality of the PacJuiceDo-DoBirdAchillesTendonAlienCheeryJuiceReality". . . . because . . putting in "medicine ("sure, it's "
* medicine", isn't it Ariza?")" and taking out blood is the same thing ("as 30,000 times per minute cinnamon circulation hand-speed sucked watermelon seeds") to FloydHaters, PacQueens, PacPosers, PacFakers, etc., etc. Donkey will tell you the most amazing nonsense. And Donkey will also believe that he is being sensible, as his "DonkeyWonderlandUniverse" seemingly deteriorates." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Check the embedded video here . . .
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80211&viewfull=1#post80211 Check the 3 minute and 50 seconds point. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree PacQueens you're right because not only of what you say - but also because of what you PacQueen DonkeyDittyDo. Love it. Keep up the laughs. And, keep up the brilliant . . . ""let's - now that both the lights and PacQueenBallerina dresses are off - pat out PacQueen selves on the back, posts"".

Remember me; I'm the PacQueen and I'm up for absolutely anything - so long as; it makes no sense, it doesn't last long, I don't have to explain and/or be accountable (even though my princess self may at times be extreme, hypocritical and completely inaccurate), and so long as it relates to my hero Pac and . . of course pulling my strings. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink; you know what I mean.
Evasion Flashback & Hypocritical Blast From The PacJuicePast
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20462-Tally-List-Of-Un-Substantiated-Posts&p=79438&viewfull=1#post79438
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20462-Tally-List-Of-Un-Substantiated-Posts&p=80121&viewfull=1#post80121
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80211&viewfull=1#post80211
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20722-When-a-Fantasy-Fight-Becomes-a-Reality-Mayweather-vs-Pacquiao-in-Historical-Perspective&p=80117&viewfull=1#post80117
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20544-Garcia-Peterson-Lamont-s-Words-Indicate-Garcia-Will-Dictate-Terms-Of-The-Fight&p=79596&viewfull=1#post79596
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20544-Garcia-Peterson-Lamont-s-Words-Indicate-Garcia-Will-Dictate-Terms-Of-The-Fight&p=79603&viewfull=1#post79603
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20544-Garcia-Peterson-Lamont-s-Words-Indicate-Garcia-Will-Dictate-Terms-Of-The-Fight&p=79625&viewfull=1#post79625
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20544-Garcia-Peterson-Lamont-s-Words-Indicate-Garcia-Will-Dictate-Terms-Of-The-Fight&p=79630&viewfull=1#post79630
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forum...ll=1#post81342
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forum...ll=1#post81320
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forum...ll=1#post81240
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20944-AND-STIIIIIL-Floyd-Bests-Manny-Via-UD12&p=81244&viewfull=1#post81244 [QUOTE=Radam G;81628]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?21048-RED-HOT-ACTION-Canelo-Steamrolls-Kirkland-in-PPV-Worthy-Scrap&p=81628&viewfull=1#post81628 I have no doubt
in my boksing and scientific mind that "The Mandingo Warrior" cannot go into hell war behavior stability without the sweaty, strong smell and scent of trainer Ann "The Mermaid" Wolfe's estrogen and progesterone blaasting into his nostrils and turning him into a stalking, squared jungle killa.
I syet you not! [/QUOTE] Finally, if/when you next come up for air, and - of course - only if you want to take a break from ""syetting both all of us and also yourself not""; is there any chance you could put that self proclaimed ""boksing and scientific mind"" of yours to good use for both boxing and all of us by perhaps putting together a round by round step-through of the MayPac fight, that does the following; A) Highlights where in certain Pac punch sequences throughout the fight he is experiencing pain as a result of not having the injection? B) Explaining how Pac (without pain and grimacing), at times, holds Floyd and pulls him close (rather than rejecting the otherwise painful circumstance; for those with torn rotator cuffs), whilst in clinches and when Floyd's left arm is trapped under Pac's; causing Pac's shoulder to adduct. Why wold a fighter with a seriously injured shoulder do such a usually excruciating action, for his injured shoulder? C) Explaining how Pac manages to (without pain and grimacing) wail at Floyd and miss? D) Explaining how Pac manages to (without pain and grimacing) throw his right (head and body) hook - at full force - as a part of a 4 to 7 punch combination (that almost all lands on Floyd's arms/hands) whilst Floyd is on the ropes and blocking? D) Explaining how Pac manages to (without pain and grimacing), at the end of the fight, throw/raise his arms vertically up un the air, in mock success; when that is typically a very difficult action for anyone with a torn rotator cuff to do - let alone someone that has just worked the torn rotator cuff over solidly through a 12 round fight such that it needs surgery? E) Why Pac seemed to have noticeably less "energy" in this fight against Floyd; than other fights where testing was not quite so stringent. F) Why, if Pac had an injury that is claimed to be a reasonable excuse for both a non-PacLoss and Pac's subpar performance, it is Floyd's fault the fight was boring? G) Explain how your overly confident PacWinPrediction posts - just prior to and only hours before the fight (when you claimed to be in Vegas with Pac and his entourage) - can be reconciled with the (claimed ""I syet you Academia not"") facts that; G1) Pac's shoulder was allegedly seriously injured (prior to the fight) enough; to be a reasonable excuse for both a non or NevaAdmitPacLoss, and also Pac's subpar MayPac performance. G2) You are a self proclaimed member of Pac's entourage and therefore must have known that Pac's shoulder was allegedly seriously injured (prior to the fight) enough; to be a reasonable (PacQueen only) excuse for both a non-PacLoss and Pac's subpar performance - yet despite this critical injury related information (that we are {now, only after the PacQueenLoss fact} told explains not just how Pac could never win - but also how his loss is not really a PacJuiceLoss); that DonkeyMagicWonderland "boksing and scientific mind" of yours - it seems - still just kept on not only "syetting us not" (as you above claim not to do) - but also releasing more hypocritical, totally incorrect, wild and extreme FloydHateLossByKO predictions (none of which were ever; true, eventuated, and explained by you) . . . . . almost as if you had no "DonkeyIdea" about the injury, or perhaps it was that you were not really a part of the central-most PacEntourage, and/or perhaps it was that the "NSACsecretShoulder&PacSteriodRequiringJustB4DaFight" injury was not as bad as now claimed. Or maybe it was all the above? Anyway, as you put that "boksing and scientific mind" of yours to good use on the above points clarification, please also feel free to ask Amayseng for assistance; as he's a PT. "
DonkeyWonderlandMagicPacJuiceSecret: we won't - over here in Oz - hold our breath on your complete/accurate reply." :) One final "scientific mind" thing . . . in your above post - the one where you claimed that you have a
""boksing and scientific mind"" and that
""I syet you not"" - you also PacJuiceClaimed . . . ""The Mandingo Warrior" cannot go into hell war behavior stability without the sweaty, strong smell and scent of trainer Ann "The Mermaid" Wolfe's estrogen and progesterone blaasting into his nostrils and turning him into a stalking, squared jungle killa."" Here's a little scary scientific and real ""I syet you not"" truth for ya . . . Sweat usually contains sodium, which is one of its main ingredients, along with chloride and potassium. There can also be some trace element minerals such as; Calcuim, Magnesuim, Zinc, Chromium, Copper, Iron, Lead, and Nickel in sweat too, but these are usually only present in extremely small amounts . . . think of those small amounts as being similarly miniscule to the quantity of truth in most of your posts. Additionally - as I am sure you scientifically minded know - absolutely none of the contents of sweat stink. It is the bacteria that lays your skin that, upon interaction with sweat, and (usually) only that sweat produced by the apocrine sweat glands; that actually produces the so called "smell" of sweat. Given these facts; how do you DonkeyPropose that; 1) Your above claim related to the Mandingo Warrior is true? 2) Your Boksing, and perhaps more importantly Scientific, mind works? 3) The strong smell and scent of trainer Ann "The Mermaid" Wolfe's Estrogen and Progesterone would ever make it into James Kirkland's nostrils; even if Estrogen and Progesterone were a component of sweat - which they are not - and could be airborne via that process? Please enlighten us with the DonkeyMagicScientificAnswer


-ericfarrell85 :

There absolutely must be something preferable that you can do with your time. I'm trying to recollect a quote on time and its venerated worth as an ephemeral commodity, but most of us feel this intrinsically and so it does not really bear repeating. There is, however a saying that I do remember right now and its from Lemony Snicket, that treasure-trove of elusive wisdom: "Don't repeat yourself. It's not only repetitive, it's redundant, and people have heard it before." You're a bright guy and while you can use a lesson on conciseness, in the past I have sought out your posts for their distinction. They remain distinct, but by way of overkill and a staunch persistence to say again what you have already said. In this way, it hardly bears distinction from Radam and his own version of repetitive persistence. If this is a crusade, you ought to consider that it's self-indulgent. Your dedication, and this really is a GREAT DEAL of dedication, is incongruous with the nature of this place. It's just a boxing website where some guys come to kick back and talk freely, innocently even, about a sport that for most of us has little
[U]true[/U] importance to our lives, our families, our morals, our afterlife. Just tell me what you thought of Canelo last night. Tell me why Pacquiao was unable to cut off the ring. Tell me why Golovkin generates thunderous power, when others aren't able. Tell me these things without annotations. Tell me without a glossary. As for the rest, the lengthy, waffling discursive on substantiation -- write a book, teach a class, run for congress... but IMHO it's asymmetric with the intendment of this forum.


-stormcentre :

When a prejudice exists, there is an immense blindness to the actuality of the reality. Putting in medicine and taking out blood is the same thing to haters, posers, fakers, etc., etc.
They will tell you the most amazing nonsense. And believe that they are being sensible. Holla!
Wow . . coming from you? Brilliant. That's going straight to your . . . "I never make stuff up & know every Iota of the (30,000 times per minute cinnamon circulation) boxing game" E&HHOF.
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20462-Tally-List-Of-Un-Substantiated-Posts&p=79438&viewfull=1#post79438 And, even without all your (and we're talking {at least} tens of, if not hundreds of . . . . ) unexplained, unbelievable, (100%) inaccurate/extreme PacWin predictions, and unanswered WildPacQueenPosts . . . . . Including those you have offered (see below links) and/or claimed to explain (then galloped away and/or ran from); which means Donkey (perhaps unsurprisingly) sometimes cant explain . . why it is that he can't explain. . . . . . . . mathematically that's a "can't explain" squared :) . Or . . . A "NunSubstantiate" squared. Or the square root of a negative number, which as you - of self proclaimed scientific (neva make stuff up) mind must surely know - is either "J" or "I". [QUOTE=Radam G;81628]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?21048-RED-HOT-ACTION-Canelo-Steamrolls-Kirkland-in-PPV-Worthy-Scrap&p=81628&viewfull=1#post81628 I have no doubt
in my boksing and scientific mind that "The Mandingo Warrior" cannot go into hell war behavior stability without the sweaty, strong smell and scent of trainer Ann "The Mermaid" Wolfe's estrogen and progesterone blaasting into his nostrils and turning him into a stalking, squared jungle killa. I syet you not! [/QUOTE] Regardless, (of whether you syet us not with your "DonkeyScience") in anyone's consistent language; that's just Pure (hypocritical . . . hide . . run . . from the truth/facts) Gold. Thanks Madam. ("
DonkeyWonderlandMagicPacJuiceSecret: I know Amayseng helped you and spurred you on with some of this "good work" so, in recognition of that, we will work out a little prize and HoF for him too. Don't worry, like a good movie, that's also going to be coming to a thread/post near you soon !!!!") OK, you know what happens now don't you? I know you do. OK . .. come and get him . . . Here s/he is . . .

Donkey . . . . Just "stantiation" specially for (hypocritical . . ""OMG the universe is deteriorating"" {but not from what I say}) you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20968-Shoulder-Statement-From-Pacquiao-and-Top-Rank&p=81486&viewfull=1#post81486 ("
DonkeyWonderlandMagicPacJuiceSecret: even if this galloping wild, "DonkeyWonderlandDeterioratingPacMakeBeliveUniverse" claim is not as unproven and unreliable as all the rest of the posts from the same author, geez, who do you reckon "they" might be DonkeyLaughing at?"). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also, here is a trip down NunHypoMemoryPacCritical lane.

PS: BTW, one (PacJuiceLossIgnored) reason that some folk put "PacHatesNeedles" together with "PacCan'tGiveBloodWhenBothDrugTest&Ariza" is near . . is . . . .. that is . . . if you cats "DodgyNSACform" remember properly . . . because one of the reasons initially given for "PacRefusePEDTest" was . . . that he didn't like needles; "PacQueenHypocrisy" despite being tattooed. As Roy Jones said . . . . Yawl musta 4got. So . . yes . . . ""When a PacJuiceDodgyNSCAformPrejudice exists, there is an DonkeyImmense blindness to the "MermaidHymen Actuality of the PacJuiceDo-DoBirdAchillesTendonAlienCheeryJuiceReality". . . . because . . putting in "medicine ("sure, it's "
* medicine", isn't it Ariza?")" and taking out blood is the same thing ("as 30,000 times per minute cinnamon circulation hand-speed sucked watermelon seeds") to FloydHaters, PacQueens, PacPosers, PacFakers, etc., etc. Donkey will tell you the most amazing nonsense. And Donkey will also believe that he is being sensible, as his "DonkeyWonderlandUniverse" seemingly deteriorates." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Check the embedded video here . . .
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80211&viewfull=1#post80211 Check the 3 minute and 50 seconds point. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree PacQueens you're right because not only of what you say - but also because of what you PacQueen DonkeyDittyDo. Love it. Keep up the laughs. And, keep up the brilliant . . . ""let's - now that both the lights and PacQueenBallerina dresses are off - pat out PacQueen selves on the back, posts"".

Remember me; I'm the PacQueen and I'm up for absolutely anything - so long as; it makes no sense, it doesn't last long, I don't have to explain and/or be accountable (even though my princess self may at times be extreme, hypocritical and completely inaccurate), and so long as it relates to my hero Pac and . . of course pulling my strings. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink; you know what I mean.
Evasion Flashback & Hypocritical Blast From The PacJuicePast
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20462-Tally-List-Of-Un-Substantiated-Posts&p=79438&viewfull=1#post79438
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20462-Tally-List-Of-Un-Substantiated-Posts&p=80121&viewfull=1#post80121
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80211&viewfull=1#post80211
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20722-When-a-Fantasy-Fight-Becomes-a-Reality-Mayweather-vs-Pacquiao-in-Historical-Perspective&p=80117&viewfull=1#post80117
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20544-Garcia-Peterson-Lamont-s-Words-Indicate-Garcia-Will-Dictate-Terms-Of-The-Fight&p=79596&viewfull=1#post79596
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20544-Garcia-Peterson-Lamont-s-Words-Indicate-Garcia-Will-Dictate-Terms-Of-The-Fight&p=79603&viewfull=1#post79603
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20544-Garcia-Peterson-Lamont-s-Words-Indicate-Garcia-Will-Dictate-Terms-Of-The-Fight&p=79625&viewfull=1#post79625
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20544-Garcia-Peterson-Lamont-s-Words-Indicate-Garcia-Will-Dictate-Terms-Of-The-Fight&p=79630&viewfull=1#post79630
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forum...ll=1#post81342
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forum...ll=1#post81320
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forum...ll=1#post81240
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20944-AND-STIIIIIL-Floyd-Bests-Manny-Via-UD12&p=81244&viewfull=1#post81244 [QUOTE=Radam G;81628]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?21048-RED-HOT-ACTION-Canelo-Steamrolls-Kirkland-in-PPV-Worthy-Scrap&p=81628&viewfull=1#post81628 I have no doubt
in my boksing and scientific mind that "The Mandingo Warrior" cannot go into hell war behavior stability without the sweaty, strong smell and scent of trainer Ann "The Mermaid" Wolfe's estrogen and progesterone blaasting into his nostrils and turning him into a stalking, squared jungle killa.
I syet you not! [/QUOTE] Finally, if/when you next come up for air, and - of course - only if you want to take a break from ""syetting both all of us and also yourself not""; is there any chance you could put that self proclaimed ""boksing and scientific mind"" of yours to good use for both boxing and all of us by perhaps putting together a round by round step-through of the MayPac fight, that does the following; A) Highlights where in certain Pac punch sequences throughout the fight he is experiencing pain as a result of not having the injection? B) Explaining how Pac (without pain and grimacing), at times, holds Floyd and pulls him close (rather than rejecting the otherwise painful circumstance; for those with torn rotator cuffs), whilst in clinches and when Floyd's left arm is trapped under Pac's; causing Pac's shoulder to adduct. Why wold a fighter with a seriously injured shoulder do such a usually excruciating action, for his injured shoulder? C) Explaining how Pac manages to (without pain and grimacing) wail at Floyd and miss? D) Explaining how Pac manages to (without pain and grimacing) throw his right (head and body) hook - at full force - as a part of a 4 to 7 punch combination (that almost all lands on Floyd's arms/hands) whilst Floyd is on the ropes and blocking? D) Explaining how Pac manages to (without pain and grimacing), at the end of the fight, throw/raise his arms vertically up un the air, in mock success; when that is typically a very difficult action for anyone with a torn rotator cuff to do - let alone someone that has just worked the torn rotator cuff over solidly through a 12 round fight such that it needs surgery? E) Why Pac seemed to have noticeably less "energy" in this fight against Floyd; than other fights where testing was not quite so stringent. F) Why, if Pac had an injury that is claimed to be a reasonable excuse for both a non-PacLoss and Pac's subpar performance, it is Floyd's fault the fight was boring? G) Explain how your overly confident PacWinPrediction posts - just prior to and only hours before the fight (when you claimed to be in Vegas with Pac and his entourage) - can be reconciled with the (claimed ""I syet you Academia not"") facts that; G1) Pac's shoulder was allegedly seriously injured (prior to the fight) enough; to be a reasonable excuse for both a non or NevaAdmitPacLoss, and also Pac's subpar MayPac performance. G2) You are a self proclaimed member of Pac's entourage and therefore must have known that Pac's shoulder was allegedly seriously injured (prior to the fight) enough; to be a reasonable (PacQueen only) excuse for both a non-PacLoss and Pac's subpar performance - yet despite this critical injury related information (that we are {now, only after the PacQueenLoss fact} told explains not just how Pac could never win - but also how his loss is not really a PacJuiceLoss); that DonkeyMagicWonderland "boksing and scientific mind" of yours - it seems - still just kept on not only "syetting us not" (as you above claim not to do) - but also releasing more hypocritical, totally incorrect, wild and extreme FloydHateLossByKO predictions (none of which were ever; true, eventuated, and explained by you) . . . . . almost as if you had no "DonkeyIdea" about the injury, or perhaps it was that you were not really a part of the central-most PacEntourage, and/or perhaps it was that the "NSACsecretShoulder&PacSteriodRequiringJustB4DaFight" injury was not as bad as now claimed. Or maybe it was all the above? Anyway, as you put that "boksing and scientific mind" of yours to good use on the above points clarification, please also feel free to ask Amayseng for assistance; as he's a PT. "
DonkeyWonderlandMagicPacJuiceSecret: we won't - over here in Oz - hold our breath on your complete/accurate reply." :) One final "scientific mind" thing . . . in your above post - the one where you claimed that you have a
""boksing and scientific mind"" and that
""I syet you not"" - you also PacJuiceClaimed . . . ""The Mandingo Warrior" cannot go into hell war behavior stability without the sweaty, strong smell and scent of trainer Ann "The Mermaid" Wolfe's estrogen and progesterone blaasting into his nostrils and turning him into a stalking, squared jungle killa."" Here's a little scary scientific and real ""I syet you not"" truth for ya . . . Sweat usually contains sodium, which is one of its main ingredients, along with chloride and potassium. There can also be some trace element minerals such as; Calcuim, Magnesuim, Zinc, Chromium, Copper, Iron, Lead, and Nickel in sweat too, but these are usually only present in extremely small amounts . . . think of those small amounts as being similarly miniscule to the quantity of truth in most of your posts. Additionally - as I am sure you scientifically minded know - absolutely none of the contents of sweat stink. It is the bacteria that lays your skin that, upon interaction with sweat, and (usually) only that sweat produced by the apocrine sweat glands; that actually produces the so called "smell" of sweat. Given these facts; how do you DonkeyPropose that; 1) Your above claim related to the Mandingo Warrior is true? 2) Your Boksing, and perhaps more importantly Scientific, mind works? 3) The strong smell and scent of trainer Ann "The Mermaid" Wolfe's Estrogen and Progesterone would ever make it into James Kirkland's nostrils; even if Estrogen and Progesterone were a component of sweat - which they are not - and could be airborne via that process? Please enlighten us with the DonkeyMagicScientificAnswer


-stormcentre :

There absolutely must be something preferable that you can do with your time. I'm trying to recollect a quote on time and its venerated worth as an ephemeral commodity, but most of us feel this intrinsically and so it does not really bear repeating. There is, however a saying that I do remember right now and its from Lemony Snicket, that treasure-trove of elusive wisdom: "Don't repeat yourself. It's not only repetitive, it's redundant, and people have heard it before." You're a bright guy and while you can use a lesson on conciseness, in the past I have sought out your posts for their distinction. They remain distinct, but by way of overkill and a staunch persistence to say again what you have already said. In this way, it hardly bears distinction from Radam and his own version of repetitive persistence. If this is a crusade, you ought to consider that it's self-indulgent. Your dedication, and this really is a GREAT DEAL of dedication, is incongruous with the nature of this place. It's just a boxing website where some guys come to kick back and talk freely, innocently even, about a sport that for most of us has little
[U]true[/U] importance to our lives, our families, our morals, our afterlife. Just tell me what you thought of Canelo last night. Tell me why Pacquiao was unable to cut off the ring. Tell me why Golovkin generates thunderous power, when others aren't able. Tell me these things without annotations. Tell me without a glossary. As for the rest, the lengthy, waffling discursive on substantiation -- write a book, teach a class, run for congress... but IMHO it's asymmetric with the intendment of this forum.
Hey, I agree Eric. There's no point in wild claim after wild claim, after wild claim. Great to see someone also knows the value of not being symptomatic with these things. One force - even if it is a boxing website - loves to tell porky pies. Another likes to expose them for what they are. Hey, moving on . . . check out the other (tens of other) threads, including the ones about Canelo V Kirkland. In there, myself and others discuss the fight. I admit (and won't argue with you though on the fact that) it is hard to find a MayPac thread that doesn't have a wild, untrue and totally off the wall PacQueen claim. Anyway, there's plenty of other threads for us to enjoy. Great post. Cheers.


-stormcentre :

There absolutely must be something preferable that you can do with your time. I'm trying to recollect a quote on time and its venerated worth as an ephemeral commodity, but most of us feel this intrinsically and so it does not really bear repeating. There is, however a saying that I do remember right now and its from Lemony Snicket, that treasure-trove of elusive wisdom: "Don't repeat yourself. It's not only repetitive, it's redundant, and people have heard it before." You're a bright guy and while you can use a lesson on conciseness, in the past I have sought out your posts for their distinction. They remain distinct, but by way of overkill and a staunch persistence to say again what you have already said. In this way, it hardly bears distinction from Radam and his own version of repetitive persistence. If this is a crusade, you ought to consider that it's self-indulgent. Your dedication, and this really is a GREAT DEAL of dedication, is incongruous with the nature of this place. It's just a boxing website where some guys come to kick back and talk freely, innocently even, about a sport that for most of us has little
[U]true[/U] importance to our lives, our families, our morals, our afterlife. Just tell me what you thought of Canelo last night. Tell me why Pacquiao was unable to cut off the ring. Tell me why Golovkin generates thunderous power, when others aren't able. Tell me these things without annotations. Tell me without a glossary. As for the rest, the lengthy, waffling discursive on substantiation -- write a book, teach a class, run for congress... but IMHO it's asymmetric with the intendment of this forum.
Hey, I agree Eric. There's no point in wild claim after wild claim, after wild claim. But at the same time, we can't expect and bank on MMMMG to keep it real either; it just won't happen. Great to see someone also knows the value of not being symptomatic with these things as well. One force - even if it is a boxing website - loves to tell porky pies. Another likes to expose them for what they are; particularly when they are extreme. No point in being symptomatic and doing nothing about and approving the former, whilst then condemning the latter. :) Hey, moving on . . . check out the other (tens of other) threads, including the ones about Canelo V Kirkland. In there, myself and others discuss that fight. I admit (and won't argue with you though on the fact that) it is hard to find a MayPac thread that doesn't have a; wild, untrue and totally off the wall PacQueen claim. Anyway, we fight the good fight whilst there's plenty of other threads for us to enjoy. Great post. Cheers.


-stormcentre :

There absolutely must be something preferable that you can do with your time. I'm trying to recollect a quote on time and its venerated worth as an ephemeral commodity, but most of us feel this intrinsically and so it does not really bear repeating. There is, however a saying that I do remember right now and its from Lemony Snicket, that treasure-trove of elusive wisdom: "Don't repeat yourself. It's not only repetitive, it's redundant, and people have heard it before." You're a bright guy and while you can use a lesson on conciseness, in the past I have sought out your posts for their distinction. They remain distinct, but by way of overkill and a staunch persistence to say again what you have already said. In this way, it hardly bears distinction from Radam and his own version of repetitive persistence. If this is a crusade, you ought to consider that it's self-indulgent. Your dedication, and this really is a GREAT DEAL of dedication, is incongruous with the nature of this place. It's just a boxing website where some guys come to kick back and talk freely, innocently even, about a sport that for most of us has little
[U]true[/U] importance to our lives, our families, our morals, our afterlife. Just tell me what you thought of Canelo last night. Tell me why Pacquiao was unable to cut off the ring. Tell me why Golovkin generates thunderous power, when others aren't able. Tell me these things without annotations. Tell me without a glossary. As for the rest, the lengthy, waffling discursive on substantiation -- write a book, teach a class, run for congress... but IMHO it's asymmetric with the intendment of this forum.
Hey, I agree Eric. There's no point in wild claim after wild claim, after wild claim. But at the same time, we can't expect and bank on MMMMG to keep it real either; it just won't happen. It's a place to kick back, talk freely, and not rampantly lie and release extreme claims. Great to see someone also knows the value of not being symptomatic with these things as well. One force - even if it is a boxing website - loves to tell porky pies. Another likes to expose them for what they are; particularly when they are extreme. No point in being symptomatic and doing nothing about and approving the former, whilst then condemning the latter. :) Hey, moving on . . . check out the other (tens of other) threads, including the ones about Canelo V Kirkland. In there, myself and others discuss that fight. I admit (and won't argue with you though on the fact that) it is hard to find a MayPac thread that doesn't have a; wild, untrue and totally off the wall PacQueen claim. Anyway, we fight the good fight whilst there's plenty of other threads for us to enjoy. Great post. Cheers.


-Radam G :

There absolutely must be something preferable that you can do with your time. I'm trying to recollect a quote on time and its venerated worth as an ephemeral commodity, but most of us feel this intrinsically and so it does not really bear repeating. There is, however a saying that I do remember right now and its from Lemony Snicket, that treasure-trove of elusive wisdom: "Don't repeat yourself. It's not only repetitive, it's redundant, and people have heard it before." You're a bright guy and while you can use a lesson on conciseness, in the past I have sought out your posts for their distinction. They remain distinct, but by way of overkill and a staunch persistence to say again what you have already said. In this way, it hardly bears distinction from Radam and his own version of repetitive persistence. If this is a crusade, you ought to consider that it's self-indulgent. Your dedication, and this really is a GREAT DEAL of dedication, is incongruous with the nature of this place. It's just a boxing website where some guys come to kick back and talk freely, innocently even, about a sport that for most of us has little
[U]true[/U] importance to our lives, our families, our morals, our afterlife. Just tell me what you thought of Canelo last night. Tell me why Pacquiao was unable to cut off the ring. Tell me why Golovkin generates thunderous power, when others aren't able. Tell me these things without annotations. Tell me without a glossary. As for the rest, the lengthy, waffling discursive on substantiation -- write a book, teach a class, run for congress... but IMHO it's asymmetric with the intendment of this forum.
Hehehe! Good point. Holla!


-stormcentre :

When a prejudice exists, there is an immense blindness to the actuality of the reality. Putting in medicine and taking out blood is the same thing to haters, posers, fakers, etc., etc.
They will tell you the most amazing nonsense. And believe that they are being sensible. Holla!
Wow . . coming from you? Brilliant. That's going straight to your . . . "I never make stuff up & know every Iota of the (30,000 times per minute cinnamon circulation) boxing game" E&HHOF.
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20462-Tally-List-Of-Un-Substantiated-Posts&p=79438&viewfull=1#post79438 And, even without all your (and we're talking {at least} tens of, if not hundreds of . . . . ) unexplained, unbelievable, (100%) inaccurate/extreme PacWin predictions, and unanswered WildPacQueenPosts . . . . . Including those you have offered (see below links) and/or claimed to explain (then galloped away and/or ran from); which means Donkey (perhaps unsurprisingly) sometimes cant explain . . why it is that he can't explain. . . . . . . . mathematically that's a "can't explain" squared :) . Or . . . A "NunSubstantiate" squared. Or the square root of a negative number, which as you - of self proclaimed scientific (neva make stuff up) mind must surely know - is either "J" or "I". [QUOTE=Radam G;81628]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?21048-RED-HOT-ACTION-Canelo-Steamrolls-Kirkland-in-PPV-Worthy-Scrap&p=81628&viewfull=1#post81628 I have no doubt
in my boksing and scientific mind that "The Mandingo Warrior" cannot go into hell war behavior stability without the sweaty, strong smell and scent of trainer Ann "The Mermaid" Wolfe's estrogen and progesterone blaasting into his nostrils and turning him into a stalking, squared jungle killa. I syet you not! [/QUOTE] Regardless, (of whether you syet us not with your "DonkeyScience") in anyone's consistent language; that's just Pure (hypocritical . . . hide . . run . . from the truth/facts) Gold. Thanks Madam. ("
DonkeyWonderlandMagicPacJuiceSecret: I know Amayseng helped you and spurred you on with some of this "good work" so, in recognition of that, we will work out a little prize and HoF for him too. Don't worry, like a good movie, that's also going to be coming to a thread/post near you soon !!!!") OK, you know what happens now don't you? I know you do. OK . .. come and get him . . . Here s/he is . . .

Donkey . . . . Just "stantiation" specially for (hypocritical . . ""OMG the universe is deteriorating"" {but not from what I say}) you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20968-Shoulder-Statement-From-Pacquiao-and-Top-Rank&p=81486&viewfull=1#post81486 ("
DonkeyWonderlandMagicPacJuiceSecret: even if this galloping wild, "DonkeyWonderlandDeterioratingPacMakeBeliveUniverse" claim is not as unproven and unreliable as all the rest of the posts from the same author, geez, who do you reckon "they" might be DonkeyLaughing at?"). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also, here is a trip down NunHypoMemoryPacCritical lane.

PS: BTW, one (PacJuiceLossIgnored) reason that some folk put "PacHatesNeedles" together with "PacCan'tGiveBloodWhenBothDrugTest&Ariza" is near . . is . . . .. that is . . . if you cats "DodgyNSACform" remember properly . . . because one of the reasons initially given for "PacRefusePEDTest" was . . . that he didn't like needles; "PacQueenHypocrisy" despite being tattooed. As Roy Jones said . . . . Yawl musta 4got. So . . yes . . . ""When a PacJuiceDodgyNSCAformPrejudice exists, there is an DonkeyImmense blindness to the "MermaidHymen Actuality of the PacJuiceDo-DoBirdAchillesTendonAlienCheeryJuiceReality". . . . because . . putting in "medicine ("sure, it's "
* medicine", isn't it Ariza?")" and taking out blood is the same thing ("as 30,000 times per minute cinnamon circulation hand-speed sucked watermelon seeds") to FloydHaters, PacQueens, PacPosers, PacFakers, etc., etc. Donkey will tell you the most amazing nonsense. And Donkey will also believe that he is being sensible, as his "DonkeyWonderlandUniverse" seemingly deteriorates." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Check the embedded video here . . .
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80211&viewfull=1#post80211 Check the 3 minute and 50 seconds point. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree PacQueens you're right because not only of what you say - but also because of what you PacQueen DonkeyDittyDo. Love it. Keep up the laughs. And, keep up the brilliant . . . ""let's - now that both the lights and PacQueenBallerina dresses are off - pat out PacQueen selves on the back, posts"".
Evasion Flashback & Hypocritical Blast From The PacJuicePast
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20462-Tally-List-Of-Un-Substantiated-Posts&p=79438&viewfull=1#post79438
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20462-Tally-List-Of-Un-Substantiated-Posts&p=80121&viewfull=1#post80121
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20741-Kenny-Bayless-is-the-ref-for-the-fight&p=80211&viewfull=1#post80211
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20722-When-a-Fantasy-Fight-Becomes-a-Reality-Mayweather-vs-Pacquiao-in-Historical-Perspective&p=80117&viewfull=1#post80117
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20544-Garcia-Peterson-Lamont-s-Words-Indicate-Garcia-Will-Dictate-Terms-Of-The-Fight&p=79596&viewfull=1#post79596
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20544-Garcia-Peterson-Lamont-s-Words-Indicate-Garcia-Will-Dictate-Terms-Of-The-Fight&p=79603&viewfull=1#post79603
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20544-Garcia-Peterson-Lamont-s-Words-Indicate-Garcia-Will-Dictate-Terms-Of-The-Fight&p=79625&viewfull=1#post79625
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20544-Garcia-Peterson-Lamont-s-Words-Indicate-Garcia-Will-Dictate-Terms-Of-The-Fight&p=79630&viewfull=1#post79630
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forum...ll=1#post81342
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forum...ll=1#post81320
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forum...ll=1#post81240
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?20944-AND-STIIIIIL-Floyd-Bests-Manny-Via-UD12&p=81244&viewfull=1#post81244 [QUOTE=Radam G;81628]
->http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?21048-RED-HOT-ACTION-Canelo-Steamrolls-Kirkland-in-PPV-Worthy-Scrap&p=81628&viewfull=1#post81628 I have no doubt
in my boksing and scientific mind that "The Mandingo Warrior" cannot go into hell war behavior stability without the sweaty, strong smell and scent of trainer Ann "The Mermaid" Wolfe's estrogen and progesterone blaasting into his nostrils and turning him into a stalking, squared jungle killa.
I syet you not! [/QUOTE] Finally, if/when you next come up for air, and - of course - only if you want to take a break from ""syetting both all of us and also yourself not""; is there any chance you could put that self proclaimed ""boksing and scientific mind"" of yours to good use for both boxing and all of us by perhaps putting together a round by round step-through of the MayPac fight, that does the following; A) Highlights where in certain Pac punch sequences throughout the fight he is experiencing pain as a result of not having the injection? B) Explaining how Pac (without pain and grimacing), at times, holds Floyd and pulls him close (rather than rejecting the otherwise painful circumstance; for those with torn rotator cuffs), whilst in clinches and when Floyd's left arm is trapped under Pac's; causing Pac's shoulder to adduct. Why wold a fighter with a seriously injured shoulder do such a usually excruciating action, for his injured shoulder? C) Explaining how Pac manages to (without pain and grimacing) wail at Floyd and miss? D) Explaining how Pac manages to (without pain and grimacing) throw his right (head and body) hook - at full force - as a part of a 4 to 7 punch combination (that almost all lands on Floyd's arms/hands) whilst Floyd is on the ropes and blocking? D) Explaining how Pac manages to (without pain and grimacing), at the end of the fight, throw/raise his arms vertically up un the air, in mock success; when that is typically a very difficult action for anyone with a torn rotator cuff to do - let alone someone that has just worked the torn rotator cuff over solidly through a 12 round fight such that it needs surgery? E) Why Pac seemed to have noticeably less "energy" in this fight against Floyd; than other fights where testing was not quite so stringent. F) Why, if Pac had an injury that is claimed to be a reasonable excuse for both a non-PacLoss and Pac's subpar performance, it is Floyd's fault the fight was boring? G) Explain how your overly confident PacWinPrediction posts - just prior to and only hours before the fight (when you claimed to be in Vegas with Pac and his entourage) - can be reconciled with the (claimed ""I syet you Academia not"") facts that; G1) Pac's shoulder was allegedly seriously injured (prior to the fight) enough; to be a reasonable excuse for both a non or NevaAdmitPacLoss, and also Pac's subpar MayPac performance. G2) You are a self proclaimed member of Pac's entourage and therefore must have known that Pac's shoulder was allegedly seriously injured (prior to the fight) enough; to be a reasonable (PacQueen only) excuse for both a non-PacLoss and Pac's subpar performance - yet despite this critical injury related information (that we are {now, only after the PacQueenLoss fact} told explains not just how Pac could never win - but also how his loss is not really a PacJuiceLoss); that DonkeyMagicWonderland "boksing and scientific mind" of yours - it seems - still just kept on not only "syetting us not" (as you above claim not to do) - but also releasing more hypocritical, totally incorrect, wild and extreme FloydHateLossByKO predictions (none of which were ever; true, eventuated, and explained by you) . . . . . almost as if you had no "DonkeyIdea" about the injury, or perhaps it was that you were not really a part of the central-most PacEntourage, and/or perhaps it was that the "NSACsecretShoulder&PacSteriodRequiringJustB4DaFight" injury was not as bad as now claimed. Or maybe it was all the above? Anyway, as you put that "boksing and scientific mind" of yours to good use on the above points clarification, please also feel free to ask Amayseng for assistance; as he's a PT. "
DonkeyWonderlandMagicPacJuiceSecret: we won't - over here in Oz - hold our breath on your complete/accurate reply." :) One final "scientific mind" thing . . . in your above post - the one where you claimed that you have a
""boksing and scientific mind"" and that
""I syet you not"" - you also PacJuiceClaimed . . . ""The Mandingo Warrior" cannot go into hell war behavior stability without the sweaty, strong smell and scent of trainer Ann "The Mermaid" Wolfe's estrogen and progesterone blaasting into his nostrils and turning him into a stalking, squared jungle killa."" Here's a little scary scientific and real ""I syet you not"" truth for ya . . . Sweat usually contains sodium, which is one of its main ingredients, along with chloride and potassium. There can also be some trace element minerals such as; Calcuim, Magnesuim, Zinc, Chromium, Copper, Iron, Lead, and Nickel in sweat too, but these are usually only present in extremely small amounts . . . think of those small amounts as being similarly miniscule to the quantity of truth in most of your posts. Additionally - as I am sure you scientifically minded know - absolutely none of the contents of sweat stink. It is the bacteria that lays your skin that, upon interaction with sweat, and (usually) only that sweat produced by the apocrine sweat glands; that actually produces the so called "smell" of sweat. Given these facts; how do you DonkeyPropose that; 1) Your above claim related to the Mandingo Warrior is true? 2) Your Boksing, and perhaps more importantly Scientific, mind works? 3) The strong smell and scent of trainer Ann "The Mermaid" Wolfe's Estrogen and Progesterone would ever make it into James Kirkland's nostrils; even if Estrogen and Progesterone were a component of sweat - which they are not - and could be airborne via that process? Please enlighten us with the DonkeyMagicScientificAnswer


-Radam G :

Wow! It may be time to let the bipolar El Dude come back. From what I can gist -- because I have the manic Stormcentre on "IGNORE" -- Stormcentre is more obnoxious than El Dude ever was. Maybe El Dude and Stormcentre can have a battle royal. I'm not being disturbed by Stormcentre's crusade of ignorance and circumlocution. Besides, he is a sidekick and surrogate for a couple of readers/posters who have a bone to grind anyway. Holla!


-Froggy :

[quote=radam g;81667]wow! It may be time to let the bipolar el dude come back. From what i can gist -- because i have the manic stormcentre on "ignore" -- stormcentre is more obnoxious than el dude ever was. Maybe el dude and stormcentre can have a battle royal. I'm not being disturbed by stormcentre's crusade of ignorance and circumlocution. Besides, he is a sidekick and surrogate for a couple of readers/posters who have a bone to grind anyway. Holla!

i didn't find time to read his book as usual and never will, if he wants to make a point, make it short and sweet !


-Radam G :

i didn't find time to read his book as usual and never will, if he wants to make a point, make it short and sweet !
Con job and chaos are what he is gunning for. The truth with health business and hurt business are kept short and sweet. And are pleasantly READ and EASY to prove. How many people are really reading his rambling, cluttered circumlocution? Not even those who are using him as a surrogate to instigate. The contest is over. And has lower the credibility and likability of this Universe. Holla!


-Koko85 :

There absolutely must be something preferable that you can do with your time. I'm trying to recollect a quote on time and its venerated worth as an ephemeral commodity, but most of us feel this intrinsically and so it does not really bear repeating. There is, however a saying that I do remember right now and its from Lemony Snicket, that treasure-trove of elusive wisdom: "Don't repeat yourself. It's not only repetitive, it's redundant, and people have heard it before." You're a bright guy and while you can use a lesson on conciseness, in the past I have sought out your posts for their distinction. They remain distinct, but by way of overkill and a staunch persistence to say again what you have already said. In this way, it hardly bears distinction from Radam and his own version of repetitive persistence. If this is a crusade, you ought to consider that it's self-indulgent. Your dedication, and this really is a GREAT DEAL of dedication, is incongruous with the nature of this place. It's just a boxing website where some guys come to kick back and talk freely, innocently even, about a sport that for most of us has little
[U]true[/U] importance to our lives, our families, our morals, our afterlife. Just tell me what you thought of Canelo last night. Tell me why Pacquiao was unable to cut off the ring. Tell me why Golovkin generates thunderous power, when others aren't able. Tell me these things without annotations. Tell me without a glossary. As for the rest, the lengthy, waffling discursive on substantiation -- write a book, teach a class, run for congress... but IMHO it's asymmetric with the intendment of this forum.
Eric - I've been reading this forum for several years now and must say this is one of the finest posts I've seen to date. Unfortunately it appears the message has already been lost on its intended recipient and it took all of one post for it to happen. Regardless I thank you and hope for a return to what I loved about this forum from the first time I read anything on it; all of which you nailed so well in your post. Thanks again for saying it so well and thank you to all who have helped me understand this sport better in a concise informative respectful manner. Peace.


-stormcentre :

i didn't find time to read his book as usual and never will, if he wants to make a point, make it short and sweet !
That's OK Frog. The posts are - by nature with the Bulletin application that runs and publishes them - sectioned off and populated with various simplistic functions, so that even a PacQueen can use them. This assists in many ways, including; 1) For those that can't bear the facts and truth, and show preference to the other; they can ignore and move on; as you cleverly have. 2) Allowing readers to browse through and find the component (please note I leave large spaces between paragraphs and sentences to make this easy for those that are easily confused and tired) of the post that may be of interest. 3) There is also a post hyperlink function, so that - by posting links - (really savvy) readers (that are in a hurry and can't stand long posts or write books themselves) can go straight to the link. These links are highlighted in the color blue, and that assists to make it quick and easy. 4) There is also an ignore button as well; but my guess is that - like most that pretend to use it - many don't; because secretly they like to read and/or complain. 5) For those that want to release hypocritical, pretending, extreme, inaccurate, and (unintended) humorous posts that have nothing to do with reality; they can post numerous short to medium but always similar and PacQueen styled posts so that we swim in unsubstantiated rubbish. Yes it's a forum for all, but given how vehemently some pitch their posts, predictions, and also defend their claims; only to run when explained; it's interesting whom attacks the truth on the basis of how hard it is to use the above features, and essentially read? I was previously putting numbers in my paragraphs for #1 PacQueen (whom recently blew a PacQueen fuse) so that he could leave the post when reading it pushed his comprehension limits, and then know where to pick up from later when he finally returned. I can do the same for you. Otherwise, please bless me with pushing the ignore button. I assure you, I will get over it. Aside from that, thanks for your insightful post.
PS: sorry, but this is so apt and funny, :) but could you FroggyPlease get Donkey to substantiate . . . just 1 . . . . not all (cause I want to keep it simple for you guys) of my above post #77 questions that relate to some of the wild PacQueen claims that have (and I know this will be of interest to you as you have effectively stated you don't like lots of material that is unreasonable and garbage, to you) been released by MMMMG? Hint: just incase you can't read through all the above post, the questions are at the bottom of the my above post #77. Just choose 1, then hold your breath and wait for the truth, to keep it simple. :)


-stormcentre :

C'mon guys be nice to me. I know I have a Meth problem and am not as consistent as use. I thought - after looking at some other posts - that I could just come here and ramble on, create long posts, self proclaim I was brilliant, attack those that disagreed, and in general talk absolute rubbish . . . . . and get away with it. . . . . . . . on the proviso that - unlike what we were fed for almost a year and then some preMayPac (remember that?) - I could both substantiate and/or explain. Are you guys really (even aside from what we endured preMayPac) now telling me, I can't do that? Cause if so then I want to know how come it has already been tolerated. (Please ask either Donkey or me for proof if you disbelieve this :) ). Now, if it's because you can't understand the posts I write, then just point out the section and I will get MMMMG to scientifically explain. Otherwise I refer to my above post #82 and #77. Also, I appreciate your right to favor unsubstantiated and hypocritical rubbish and will not ask why that is more popular for you within a culture sport where pretenders are usually frowned upon (disagree; go to a gym and start talking rubbish and then hop in the ring without a verbal break). OK, where's my Meth pipe? I love use all, and all your wicked posts. Give my love to MMMMG and Donkey (sometimes - or so I have heard - they're one in the same thing) . . . remember he can't read my posts. Finally, if you want to have a little cry about it . . . here you go . . .

Other wise check this out . . . it's a good uplifting tune.


StormCentre Social Avenger Even In NonPacEvenHandedness Matters.


-amayseng :

i didn't find time to read his book as usual and never will, if he wants to make a point, make it short and sweet !
I put him on ignore near two months ago and appreciate not having to read his pretentious propaganda. Any fool can just ramble on and on and on for their own good. This forum exists to converse , learn and educate one another not to hear your own "voice" while you spew nonsense.


-stormcentre :

Con job and chaos are what he is gunning for.
The true with health business and hurt business are kept short and sweet. And are pleasantly READ and EASY to prove. How many people are really reading his rambling, cluttered circumlocution? Not even those who are using him as a surrogate to instigate. The contest is over. And has lower the credibility and likability of this Universe. Holla!
OK, let's say you're DonkeyRight . . And lets just say you can read my posts - which would mean you make stuff up (as you claim I am blocked) - which we know you Cherry Juice don't. Can you please show and teach me (referencing/using your previous posts as an example) how I can both; 1) Not mislead readers and (genuinely) keep it real (as you claim to do). 2) Be true with health business and hurt business in keep my posts short, sweet, and pleasant and easy to read.
PS: get Donkey or Frog to read and assist with this, if I am truly blocked. :)
SecretMagicDonkeyHeadsUp: these next paragraphs are nested, have brackets, have no guiding pictures to assist, and as such they may also require a little bit of comprehension skills. So, please "DonkeySkip" or "FrogJump" over them if you find it all too DonkeyFrog hard, unpleasant, and/or just not to your liking. Also, if it really gets too much; use the tissues above in post #83. OK, thanks. I feel it's been a productive group of (short) posts (see I can do it
* ) and now I am on my way to being what, and like, you guys want.
*SecretMagicDonkeyNote: I have, previously, (I won't provide links though as they're too easy and quick to read :) and don't want all PacQueen injured shoulders hurt as they throw their arms in the air; protesting about the presence of the truth and fact) written a lot of short and also long posts, and I know you Donkeys and Frogs are only looking at the long ones that are not only hard, for you, to understand/read - but also speak the (unpopular) truth. But that's OK, I understand selective perception pretty well.


-stormcentre :

I put him on ignore near two months ago and appreciate not having to read his pretentious propaganda. Any fool can just ramble on and on and on for their own good. This forum exists to converse , learn and educate one another not to hear your own "voice" while you spew nonsense.
The only problem with that Amayseng comment/post - and this is representative of the core ignored issue here - is that when you initially claimed to put me on ignore and reject me; you actually didn't. You see I know and can find out these things. Instead, you continued to read what I wrote; claiming you couldn't read it and hadn't. :) So you not only lied about that - but also forgot to thank me for previously overlooking it; which is probably not only why you and Donkey get on so well - but most likely also why you cats hate the mere possibility of "stantiation". In fact, if we go back in your posts, it can easily b seen that as soon as some of your wild claims were proven to be unsupported and hypocritical; that was the point at which you started the above crusade and not only claimed my posts were "not fair" - but began employing more exaggerated and untrue claims to assist - as that which I highlight above. So, it seems you not only like to mislead, pretend, and cause a little coup yourself - but that you will also extensively equivocate to do (whilst claiming others are doing that) in order so that others (of same mind) will easily follow you. Thanks for the excellent example of what I am talking about. ""
Amayseng; this forum exists for me to PacQueen pretend and say I block people that don't agree with me, but I will secretly do that (and claim otherwise) whilst at the same time portray myself as a patron saint and say the forum exists to converse, learn and educate one another - as I hear my own "voice" and spew nonsense". After all, if I get caught not telling the truth the majority of those that foolishly believed me are doing the same anyway; so what does it matter?" Now, yawl know I am prepared to substantiate that claim; so please don't forget to ask so this great forum can be a better, less misleading, and easy to read place; just as DonkeyFrog would like. Finally, I miss you Amayseng . . . but 2 points in closing; 1) Don't talk it all too seriously. 2) If you're caught telling porky pies, cop it on the chin without being an ""OMG my shoulder is plucked and needs something, just prior to the fight but not before and when the injury started, to mask a PED shot so I can look successful"" PacQueen, OK? Remember (and this goes for all DonkeyFrog PacQueens) just as I can write short or long posts (and number the sentence for yawl) - yawl, also, at the same time, can make a collective decision to cease releasing and/or supporting wild, unsubstantiated, and rampant claims that simply do not align with not only reality - but also what boxing both is and purports to be.

Take a week to think about it; I know it's not easy - but there is a reason explain and "stantiate" is incredibly hard for some, but easy (and hilarious) for others. Now excuse me whilst I move out of your way and allow yawl to point the same high powered (and evenhanded) perception towards Amayseng's "truth" and "motive". Thanks.
StormCentre Social Avenger Even In NonPacEvenHandedness Matters.


-ThatGuy :

Nsac can forever be tarnished for this nonsense what a complete failure as Floyd receives pain numbimg injections at the same time Pac is denied anti inflammatory injection before the fight
Manny ticked "No" to having had any shoulder injuries the night before the fight. The nsac refusing the treatment on the night of the fight was the right thing to do. Don't make the crucial error by becoming too emotionally attached to mayweather remaining money in vegas once again. The fight was the biggest money making mismatch ever. Pacquiao never thanked god during the fight interview, the first thing he said was "it was a good fight.... I thought i won the fight.... He did nothing, he run". He didnt mention the shoulder injury at all, until the post conference where bob arum brought it up. I'm done here.