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Gabrielito:

I love watching Ruiz fight and was happy for him as his weight came down with each appearance...until this year. His last two fights are not what fans want to see .

Reply

oubobcat:

I'll throw a couple names out there.

One is Ike Ibeabuchi. I really thought he was going to become a dominant heavyweight champion. The Tua fight was something else and he completely destroyed a younger Chris Byrd in the late 90's. But the fight he had with Everton Davis on ESPN really showcased his talent. Ibeabuchi had at times blinding hand speed for a heavyweight and destructive power as well. But as we know he had demons and the demons got the best of him. He could have been great and there was a time back in the late 90's I thought he was going to revive the heavyweight division and be a must see attraction in this sport similar to Tyson.

And the other is one I use to watch back on the old Forum boxing series. His name was Henry Bruseles. Bruseles had natural gifts including power and very fast hands. When I saw him fight in the early stages of his career on this series, I thought he was can't miss and would be a star. He had a solid career and some decent wins on his resume. But never put it all together to be a champion and be the star I thought he would become. Some of you may remember too he fought Floyd Mayweather in 2005 and was dominated in that fight (I believe it was the fight prior to Gatti for Mayweather).

Here is a video of a young Bruseles on the old Forum boxing series I previously mentioned showing some of that eye popping raw talent he possessed in the early stages of his career

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-JycMu82DM

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brownsugar:

Once some fighters lose... They never get quite their confidence all the way back. At least that's my impression. I even heard a local boxer say he was taking ex-lax to lose weight.... A very lazy solution for weight gain problems and the pesky late bloomer growth spurts. Some people continue to grow (not inflate) well into their late twenties. Whether or not the ex-lax rumors are true. Curry and his team didn't handle the weight gain right

Some fighters don't have a good strategy for moving up in weight. Some live in denial and fear of losing status and giving up the number one spot....IMHO.

Sad ending for the promising Curry.

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the Roast:

Some quality names there RG.

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The Commish:

"I like Ruiz - the speed and the hard hitting. He didn't do well Saturday, despite winning, but he's been more impressive than not. Let's see how he does against better opposition. Is he too fat? I think "blubbery" is the word we're all looking for. But he wouldn't be the first heavy heavyweight to make a name for himself. Think of Two-Ton Tony Galento, for instance, who was as rough and tumble as they come."

I, too, like Ruiz. Like Tony Galento and Ron Stander, he's fun to watch. However, unlike them, he can really box, not just stand there and be a barroom brawler. However, realistically, he is going to have to get that blubbery arse in shape before we can seriously think of him getting in with, and beating, a solid top-10 heavyweight.

Ruiz has tried before, taking himself of of action around a year ago, saying he was going to physically change his appearance. Well, that didn't happen. He came back looking like the same 'ol Andy Ruiz.

I think he now realizes what he has to do to go from being a fringe contender to being a serious championship contender. Let's see if he does what he has to do.

When he next steps in the ring, if he looks like the Andy Ruiz we have become used to seeing, we'll know where his boxing future is at. If he looks much different, we'll still know where his boxing Future is.

Two different scenarios, two different paths.

Which one will Andy Ruiz choose?

-Randy G.

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teaser:

nice analysis …JJ jr is still on the learning curve…if he develops that defense and can crack half as good as his dad look out !!

Reply

stormcentre:

"http://youtu.be/dVTnguNg_YQ"

OK thanks for that D2.

I could start off by saying that he needs to stay away from guys that can trace/rake a decent jab on him.

But then . . . it's easier and better to look at the positives.

Dude clearly wants to fight - no matter whether it's in a ring or not.

And . . you can't bottle that up (I am laughing as I write this).

You have to channel it.

Bronco Billy appears to have the experience, mentality and durability to get him past Butterbean level heavyweight boxing.

Rick Hatton . . . listen up please . . .how bout you feed Billy to Lucas Browne for Brownies first Las Vegas gig?

That will tell us how keen Billy (and Lucas) is.

I know one thing.

It won't go past 7 or 8 rounds.

Billy lokos like he would be good for boxing and also reality TV.

Dude takes protecting his family seriously.

But then who doesn't.

What's the consensus D2 (or anyone else)?

Is Bronco Billy going to get a credible version of the heavyweight title?

Reply

stormcentre:

"http://youtu.be/dVTnguNg_YQ"

OK thanks for that D2.

I could start off by saying that he needs to stay away from guys that can trace/rake a decent jab on him.

But then . . . it's easier and better to look at the positives.

Dude clearly wants to fight - no matter whether it;s in a ring or not.

And . . you can't bottle that up (I am laughing as I write this).

You have to channel it.

Bronco Billy appears to have the experience, mentality and durability to get him past Butterbean level heavyweight boxing.

Rick Hatton . . . listen up please . . .how bout you feed Billy to Lucas Browne for Brownies first Las Vegas gig?

That will tell us how keen Billy (and Lucas) is.

I know one thing.

It won't go past 7 or 8 rounds.

Billy lokos like he would be good for boxing and also reality TV.

Dude takes protecting his family seriously.

But then who doesn't.

What's the consensus D2 (or anyone else)?

Is Bronco Billy going to get a credible version of the heavyweight title?

Reply

deepwater2:

http://youtu.be/dVTnguNg_YQ

Reply

stormcentre:

;)

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Radam G:

"Yeh . . and I'm riding with RG on this - I agree with what he said (even if I have no idea what it means).

RG, are you partying too hard too soon?

Santa hasn't arrived yet."


Wow! On that, I was falling to sleep. Hehe! Holla!

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New York Tony:

I like Ruiz - the speed and the hard hitting. He didn't do well Saturday, despite winning, but he's been more impressive than not. Let's see how he does against better opposition. Is he too fat? I think "blubbery" is the word we're all looking for. But he wouldn't be the first heavy heavyweight to make a name for himself. Think of Two-Ton Tony Galento, for instance, who was as rough and tumble as they come.

Reply

stormcentre:

"I told cha that the time is to use laser-eyed robots. They have bit in the fight, so they will not cheat. They won't whoever is beat. Holla!"

Yeh . . and I'm riding with RG on this - I agree with what he said (even if I have no idea what it means).

RG, are you partying too hard too soon?

Santa hasn't arrived yet.

Reply

Radam G:

"First of all, DD, welcome to TSS' wonderful and wacky world of posters and pugilistic prognosticators.

Secondly, thanks for listening to "At the Fights" on SiriusXM. On Monday (Dec. 22), we will be talking/discussing/debating the merits of each of boxing's scoring systems and what they mean, as well as what can be done to improve the judging which has seemingly gotten worse over the last few years.

If you don't mind, DD, I am going to mention your system and credit you.

Quite frankly, when a fight is even remotely close today and heads to the final bell, I get nervous that the wrong fighter is going to be given the decision.

I don't want to hear, "Well, that's boxing for you!" Let the blown calls by officials be in baseball, football and basketball.

The scoring system in boxing is broken.

It's time we stop being afraid of a fight going to the scorecards.

It's time we fix it.

-Randy G."


I told cha that the time is here to use laser-eyed robots. They don't have a bite in the fight, so they will not cheat. They won't care whoever is beat. Holla!

Reply

Radam G:

"I was wrong about Donald Curry. Way back when I thought Donald might be an all time great. Not that he didn't have a good career, it just didn't go the way I thought it would.

As you may have read before the Young Roast fell in love with boxing on the night of September 16th, 1981 when Sugar Ray Leonard came back and stopped Thomas Hearns in the first Superfight I ever saw. SRL was my hero. Problem was one fight later he retired with a detached retina. No more Sugar Ray I thought.

Curry defeated Marlon Starling that same year. Curry won the vacant WBA 147 lb belt and defended it beating Starling again by 15 round UD. I was impressed. In '85 Curry faced and destroyed WBC champ Milton McCrory in the 2nd round. Now I was all in. I thought for sure Curry would dominate everyone on his way up to middleweight where he would beat Marvelous Marvin Hagler. I told everyone Curry was the next big thing. The next SRL.

In his second defense of the undisputed title Curry would fight 5-1 underdog Lloyd Honeyghan. I went over to my buddy's house to watch the fight,"This is the guy I was telling you about. This guy is the best in the world."
Honeyghan mauled and brawled his way to a stunning upset. With a huge cut over his eye and a gash on his lower lip, Curry stayed on his stool and did not come out for the 7th round.
"This is the guy you were telling me about?" Young Roast hangs his head.

Curry had weight problems, managerial problems AND his grandfather had died. The Lone Star Cobra would move up to 154, a more comfortable weight. "That makes sense" I thought.

After two strange wins by DQ Curry gets a title fight against Mike McCallum. The fight went back and forth with both men having their moments but in the fifth round Curry backed out of an exchange with his hands down and got hit with a titanic left hook. Donald crashed down on his back, his head slammed off the canvas. Fight over. Young Roast hangs his head again.
No shame in losing to McCallum. The Bodysnatcher was always underated, a future hall of famer. Curry would be back.
Three fights later in 1988 Curry defeats Gianfranco Rossi for the WBC Superwelterweight title. Surely now Donald was on the right path. No. He wasn't.

In 1989 DC would be be dethroned in France of all places by Rene Jacuot. It was the Ring Magazine Upset of the Year. Again I am shocked by this man, head hanging. It never got better.

In '90 Curry got a middleweight title shot and was stopped in the 10th by Micheal Nunn.

In '91 Curry goes back to 154 with another title chance against Terry Norris. TKOed in 8 this time.
Both of these fights I hoped Don Curry would pull it together and win. I believed he would win.
Curry retired after the Norris fight. Six years later Donald returned and split two fights before retiring for good.

Donald Curry broke my heart. I was so wrong. I would be wrong many other times but not like with DC.
I thought Andrew Maynard might be great. Danny Romero. Micheal Grant.

What about you TSS? Who were you wrong about? Who broke your heart?"

I've been wrong too many to count. It come with the territory, psyche and the honest commitment of the pug and politics.

One of my cannot miss was the "Sheriff" Clinton Jackson. Another one was the 'Cali Crusher" Chris Arreola. One because Arreola was Mark Breland. And before him Harold "Little Man" Petty. Holla!

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Radam G:

"@Randy. It was an article about Gerry Cooney that was in a leading magazine back in the day (A Sports Illustrated, Inside Sports type magazine) that brought up an interesting point. That Cooney was positioned to become the first billion dollar athlete and if you think about it he had all the ingredients: Intelligence, Looks, An insane hook, right complexion, more on that in a bit, right ethnicity, and would have been armed with one of the three best titles in the world (Alongside with Pope and President of The United States).

So my question is at what point in the journey did he stop caring? He fought some monsters so it certainly wasn't a lack of courage. When and why did the fire die?"


Let me answer it for you -- DRINKING and DRUGS and hanging out with a few thugs.

All the big fighters back in da day thought that I was just a cute Asian-kid rugrat every darn where -- in the gyms, hotel rooms, dressing rooms, dinning rooms and in a ringside seat. But I knew when things was not right. I was a good little spy,

Even at two years old, I could tell that "G"GC had been drugging with his sparringmate Lenny "Big Chocolate Chip" Tyler. I even remember snitching him out. Nobody cared because ev'ybodeee and dey were blinded by the billion dollars that "G"GC was going to make.

The leading promoting crook at that time was Harold Smith/Ross Field. And I've already told you cats how my sharp-eyed cousin at Wells Fargo Bank caused the hammer to drop on him for his electronic thieving of giant moolah.

If one doesn't handle the pressure of professional pugilism the correct, gutty kick-arse way, he does not turn into a diamond, he turns into a drunk and/or duggie. Holla!

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King Beef:

Speedy recovery Champ!

Reply

The Commish:

First of all, DD, welcome to TSS' wonderful and wacky world of posters and pugilistic prognosticators.

Secondly, thanks for listening to "At the Fights" on SiriusXM. On Monday (Dec. 22), we will be talking/discussing/debating the merits of each of boxing's scoring systems and what they mean, as well as what can be done to improve the judging which has seemingly gotten worse over the last few years.

If you don't mind, DD, I am going to mention your system and credit you.

Quite frankly, when a fight is even remotely close today and heads to the final bell, I get nervous that the wrong fighter is going to be given the decision.

I don't want to hear, "Well, that's boxing for you!" Let the blown calls by officials be in baseball, football and basketball.

The scoring system in boxing is broken.

It's time we stop being afraid of a fight going to the scorecards.

It's time we fix it.

-Randy G.

Reply

dino da vinci:

@Randy. It was an article about Gerry Cooney that was in a leading magazine back in the day (A Sports Illustrated, Inside Sports type magazine) that brought up an interesting point. That Cooney was positioned to become the first billion dollar athlete and if you think about it he had all the ingredients: Intelligence, Looks, An insane hook, right complexion, more on that in a bit, right ethnicity, and would have been armed with one of the three best titles in the world (Alongside with Pope and President of The United States).

So my question is at what point in the journey did he stop caring? He fought some monsters so it certainly wasn't a lack of courage. When and why did the fire die?

Reply

dino da vinci:

I'm from New England, where JFK walked on water and Rocky Marciano and Marvelous Marvin Hagler could and can do no wrong. Marvelous was scary. If they fought five times I would like Marvin to win all five. That said, Winky could fight a ton as well. The deciding factor for me is I have Marvelous very short list in it's historically deepest division. As Brown Sugar pointed out, the middleweights are special because they can move like lightweights and punch like the dinosaurs. (Heavyweights)

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The Commish:

Pneumonia is no match for Ali.

Ali wins this one quickly!

-Randy G.

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The Commish:

"You guys thought of Chuvalo dancing with Doc Wlad G, but I was thinking Buster Douglas and Gerry Cooney. I pick them both to kayo Doc Wlad K, "Brown Bomber" Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey and Rocky Marciano. Styles make fights and those greats that I named would have ducked Douglas and Cooney. Holla!"



You just may be right, and how can I pick against my sidekick, Cooney.



I can't.



-Randy G.

Reply

The Commish:

The fight was a real yawner and an indicator that Ruiz, while talented, must a considerable amount of weight and train harder than ever if he is to be taken seriously. He constantly says things like "This is how I am built" when reference is made to his beachball-like body.



That's a crock and he knows it. The late James Broad used to say the same thing when critics attacked him about constantly being out of shape. So did Tony Tubbs. And Greg Page. So did the most talented name about to be mentioned: James Toney. Overweight fighters are that way, not from lack of training, but from A) over-eating and also from B) eating the wrong food.



Andy Ruiz has plenty of boxing talent. However, Sergei Liakhovich exposed a glaring weakness in Ruiz. That weakness is lack of prime conditioning. As the fight wore on, and as Liakhovich began to tire and lean on his meaty, blubbery opponent, Ruiz tired right back. Instead of punching each other, then took turns grabbing, mauling, leaning, hugging, clinching and gasping on each other.



Liakhovich is at the end of his career. There are no more championships left in his career, not even more championship fights. Not so for Ruiz. However, this win was a major step backwards for him. Had he come out and dispatched of Liakhovich in the manner Deontay Wilder did in 2013, when he left the Russian convulsing on the canvas, Ruiz might have put himself in line to face a rated opponent later this Winter in a title fight eliminator. Now, with his huffing and puffing his way to a unanimous decision over a shot fighter, Ruiz has delayed his flight to "Titletown, USA."



Get back to the gym, Andy, and away from the breakfast, lunch and dinner tables. Keep away from those snacks, which it looks like you are devouring as if you have a job as a food taster!tester.



If you want to be a figher, live like one. Train like one.



But, if you want to eat, I have a feeling you can be a very successful competitor in eating competitions. In that case, you have plenty of time to get ready for the "Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Championship" on July 4, 2015.



Beating Joey Chestnut's 69 hot dogs in 12 minutes is gonna' take quite an effort, but I just know you can do it!



Fight or overeat. You can't do both.



-Randy G.

Reply

stormcentre:

"Stormie, You said it so nice you posted it twice.

I commented on the possibility or no possibility of the Mayweather - Pac, fite. What I wrote it the truth, if the fight doesn't happen. Take for example the Jack Dempsey vs Harry Wills fight, both have passed away quite awhile ago and the there is still a debate over that fight that never happened. Yes, my friend, if both retire without fighting each other it will be the same.

Pac has at least stated his willingness to fight even at a lower pay. Mayweather meanwhile is setting conditions that put a damper on negotiations. Sure Mayweather has the right, but he is leaving no room for negotiation. "Must get rid of Bob, must fight on SHOWTIME PPV, Testing, the split, pleeeeeeeeeeeeze."


Cool BD - thanks for the response.

There's no doubt that - out of all we discuss - Floyd certainly wants to own, or disrupt plans related to, the Cinco De Mayo May 2015 weekend.

There is a lot of strategic value in doing that for him; regardless of whether he (says he) fights Pacquaio or not.

Reply

stormcentre:

"Stormie, You said it so nice you posted it twice. I commented on the possibility or no possibility of the Mayweather - Pac, fite. What I wrote it the truth, if the fight doesn't happen. Take for example the Jack Dempsey vs Harry Wills fight, both have passed away quite awhile ago and the there is still a debate over that fight that never happened. Yes, my friend, if both retire without fighting each other it will be the same.



Pac has at least stated his willingness to fight even at a lower pay. Mayweather meanwhile is setting conditions that put a damper on negotiations. Sure Mayweather has the right, but he is leaving no room for negotiation. "Must get rid of Bob, must fight on SHOWTIME PPV, Testing, the split, pleeeeeeeeeeeeze."




Cool BD - thanks for the response.



There's no doubt that - out of all we discuss - Floyd certainly wants to own, or disrupt plans related to, the Cinco De Mayo May 2015 weekend.



There is a lot of strategic value in doing that for him; regardless of whether he (says he) fights Pacquaio or not.

Reply

brownsugar:

"I have not had a chance to chime in on this subject yet but when I first saw the topic the name that screamed out to me that would give many all time greats a tough fight is Winky Wright.

Up until the very end of his career, Wright was a nightmare for anyone he fought. He was also very avoided particularly in what was really the prime of his career after he beat Andrew Council and Bronco McKart. It took Wright three years after beating McKart to force his way into a big fight against Fernando Vargas and in my opinion defeat Vargas who at that time was just entering his own prime.

Wright was a southpaw of course. His style was unique though and this is what made him so tough to fight. He was a slick southpaw, no doubt but not slick in the manner of a southpaw who uses his legs and moves to frustrate his opponents. Wright would stand in the pocket and use angles and precise timing to land punches, not always hard punches, but land scoring shots. But he was slick enough and skilled enough defensively, especially in his prime, to slip punches in the pocket and rarely get hit clean. He knew what precise angle to throw at to avoid counters landing and would step away at just the right time to avoid punches while going back on his own offensive. Defensively, in the pocket he was always moving his head and a master at picking/deflecting shots whether with his shoulder or gloves.

There was a reason for example why Shane Mosley had such a difficult time twice with Winky Wright and made to look like silly at times trying to land on him in his two losses to Wright in 2004.

Wright was primarily a Junior Middleweight. But I am going to project him at Middleweight in his prime against a prime Marvin Hagler.

Wright would give Hagler a very tough fight. He would stand in the pocket with Hagler and use the slick skills I mentioned above to fight Hagler standing in the pocket all night. It would one one of those fights that would be very tough to score. Hagler would land but not always cleanly. Wright may land more but not with the thud that Hagler's punches may have behind them. I see a very close fight between the two and one of those fights that would go to the cards with nobody really knowing who actually won the fight.

Hagler was great but Wright's style, particularly in his prime, would give a lot of great fighters fits including Hagler."


That's an interesting scenario to consider Oubobcat, and since we're just having fun with the topic, who's to say what would have happened, although many probabilities are possible?
The middleweights used to be the glamor division for many years after the heavyweights, but I liked them because some middleweights can move like a lightweight while others could break down a brick wall with their power. The best of speed, action, finess, and power.

Hagler was an enigma to me, I was perplexed why he had so much respect for Duran. Marvin would sometimes overthink his offence when facing a notable opponent, sometimes he would leap halfway across the ring (like he did against Caveman Lee) and land a jab with enough force to knock a man down, or attack like a pit bull that has tasted blood, like he did against Hearns, (fearless and unyielding). But when faced with the great Sugar Ray Leonard and Roberto Duran, he uses much more of a chess match mentality.
Marvin can fight a disciplined technical fight to a certain degree, he was very versatile, but the times he used his "Destruct and Destroy" mode, he could be exceptionally dangerous. I think if he would have gambled and attacked Duran, or Leonard the way he took the fight to Hearns, the results would have been much different. Even if he doesn't land often or cut the ring down effectively he still gets credit for being the boss, forcing the other guy to take risks trying to play catch up.

Hagler vs Wright,... could well go as you have stated if Hagler had too much respect for Winky for whatever reason. However physically I don't think Wright is a match for Hagler in the raw strength and stamina department, Wright always stood still which is what the aggressive fearless Hagler wanted the most. I believe he's one of the few boxers who could black Winky's eye by knocking his own gloves back into his face. Winky gets pulled out of the fight by his trainer in 9 for his own safety.
Fun scenario, thanks for the suggestion.

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brownsugar:

Gary is fast, whether he's supposedly faking his quickness or not. but his arms are short, and his offensive perimeter is minimal, sometimes he punches and sometimes he just flicks his punches, he looked like he could have done anything he wanted to his opponent last night, I have to admit, it got a little monotonous in the later rounds, Even Gary got tired as he began to start throwing a spurt of pitty-pat combo's in the end, It's good that Haymon got him back in the ring so quickly, but it was more for Russell's benefit that was for the viewing public. He must come back strong in his next outing.

Reply

Pazuzu:

Look out, pneumonia! The champ is gonna own ya!

Reply

brownsugar:

Khan recently confirmed (during his last fight) what I've said about him for years,... He's Hyper,... possibly ADD, But that same quality is probably what makes his offence so busily lethal against slower boxers. (yes sometimes he gets caught when he gets too busy)
And its also probably why he talks a little too much too.

I generally wait to see what his promoters and handlers have to say regarding his next move.

Nobody Knows what Floyd is going to do next year, Floyd specializes in keeping certain details concealed while the fans and the media exasperate themselves trying to figure out the next piece to the puzzle. But regarding Khan, He's is solid at 147... and he's has separated himself from the pack. He's good enough now to give Floyd a run for the money or possibly upset him depending on how the fight goes.

There have been around 3 dozen fights in the last three weeks, I'm still watching some of the undercards for the first time. Haven't even had a chance to watch Beterbiev yet... hopefully I'll have them all digested within a week. Until then I will reserve comment on many of them and just check out what you guys have to say.... good vid.

Reply

thegreyman:

I'm sure Ali will take this in this in his stride, and make a full and speedy recovery.

All the best champ.

Reply

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Malignaggi Weighs In On Stevenson, Beterbiev

Paul Malignaggi is a boxer, analyst, and also, like us, a fan. He wants to see the best fight the best; that came out when I asked him Saturday morning his after-the-fact take on the scraps which unfolded in Montreal Friday night, and on his network, Showtime. "Adonis Stevenson did what he had to against an overmatched opponent," the 34-year-old "Pride of Bensonhurst" told me. "Hopefully next year he can get in with some big guns." Amen, fight dissector. We are all on the same page there. Er…maybe not all. The blowback against Adonis after...

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Boxing Results

FIGHTER Result Rnd

Adonis Stevenson

Dmitry Sukhotsky

KO Rd. 5

Bryan Vasquez

Sergio Thompson

RTD Rd. 9

Hanna Gabriels

Paty Ramirez

KO Rd. 2

Roman Martinez

Herbert Quartey

KO Rd. 2

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Prediction:

66.7%
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