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Radam G:

BTW, I see Sugar Ray Leonard as I see my number one guy -- Willie Pep -- on my Top 10 ATGs. IMHO they both had suspected chins, but great defensive moves and super recovery so the typical, and often times the great, opponents would not ever know that until after the fight and in watching the films.



In my qadzillion of films and videos of them -- time and time again -- on 'em I see opponents put da BUZZ, but quickly zooming side-to-side and away the Sugarman and the "Will o' the Wisp" slide, hide and glide by just playing like "that ain't nothin. CUZ! Holla!

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The Shadow:

"That would be a hard call. But it would be Big Money Oscar D wearing a custom-made boxing cup with with footballer-like rib pads to cover his ribs because of some myth that I don't recall. He made Mayorga agree to let him use it.



Another would be Heavyweight King xxxx xxxxx, who actually used to wear pink boksing attire, making his opponent wear lady pink drawers. The dude -- a Big Texan name xxxxxx xxxx -- did it and in later life believe that it made him become gay. He suited some people but that that frivolous lawsuit was thrown out.



Boxing even outside of that squared jungle is the "theatre of the unexpected." And because it is a redlight-district sport, you will be shocked of what goes on.Their is all types of rituals, crime activities, superstitions, bullying to do this and that.



All the dirty haps of the game will forever be on da down low because it is too much money to lose to straighten it out. Holla!"




Get out of here!?



And what was that story of yours with brown trunks or something?

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Radam G:

"In his prime, SRL took one hellva' shot. Undefeated bomb-thrower Thomas Hearns nailed him a few times in their 1981 match, as did Roberto Duran in their first meeting.

Going into their fight, Hagler told me, "I will knock Leonard out the first time I land with anything resembling a hard punch."

Never happened.

Yes, Leonard went down in his pro career, but not when he was at the top of his game.

He is, in my book, an all-time great!

-Randy G."


WOW! Your book is right! Hehehe! No doubt that Ray is an all-time great. He is on my Top 10 list of all time greats. Holla!

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Radam G:

"SK aint going down "to the mat" but he will be wandering around the ring aimlessly wondering what the hell is going on and why can't he corner this old guy and make him fall down like everyone has done for him.

SK only knows one script, one story. BH is a master writer. If he sees the story isn't going like he wants it to, he will re-write the script while the rest of us are reading it still."


AMEN! Nuff said! Holla!

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MCM:

I'm going to savor Nov 8 because I believe this is Hopkins' last fight. And whether he goes out in glorious victory or in noble defeat, I'm going to stand up and applaud when the final bell sounds.



I only wish I would have bought another couple tickets so I can share the moment with more friends.

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kidcanvas:

pac will go through chris like s**t through a goose ... the "friendliness" will just make it easier for chris to lose

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brownsugar:

sorry i missed the deadline... Put in 12 hours yesterday and didn't quit till midnight. I look forward to the monthly consensus

If had enough time this would have been my pick

Andre Ward... Even though he's been a ghost lately
Golovkin
Mayweather ... Highest Paid doesn't = highest rated...show me something
Rigondeaux
Pacquiao
Klitschko
Kovalev
BHOP
Froch
Roman Gonzales

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Froggy:

Kovalev !

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Froggy:

As great as Hopkins is, if doesn't retire at the right time, he is going to grow old before everyone's eyes one of these times ! No shame if it happens against Kovolov !

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michigan400:

SK aint going down "to the mat" but he will be wandering around the ring aimlessly wondering what the hell is going on and why can't he corner this old guy and make him fall down like everyone has done for him.



SK only knows one script, one story. BH is a master writer. If he sees the story isn't going like he wants it to, he will re-write the script while the rest of us are reading it still.

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The Commish:

Come on! A few more sets of ratings. The more the better. A few were just in-boxed to me.

If you're reading this, you should be sending your list. You know the sport. Send us your list. You have until 11:59 tonight.

They new list will be posted first thing in the morning.

-Randy G.

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The Commish:

"I agree with about 99 percent of what you are saying. There is a one percent chance -- of course I'm speculating that -- 3g would have caught Ray. Ray had everything that you said but a great chin. But his speed and smarts kept him from getting finished a lot of times after he got knocked on his butt.

As amateurs and pros, the most chinny great and good amateurs and pros in history would be Sugar Ray Leonard and Howard Davis Jr. They were master at rising from knockdowns and whuppin' butts.

My extended family's boksing libraries have old 8mm and 16mm films, 3/5 and 1/2 betamax and VHS tapes on those suckers. Holla!"


In his prime, SRL took one hellva' shot. Undefeated bomb-thrower Thomas Hearns nailed him a few times in their 1981 match, as did Roberto Duran in their first meeting.

Going into their fight, Hagler told me, "I will knock Leonard out the first time I land with anything resembling a hard punch."

Never happened.

Yes, Leonard went down in his pro career, but not when he was at the top of his game.

He is, in my book, an all-time great!

-Randy G.

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Radam G:

"I love these kind of questions spark much debate, all of them intelligent and all of them passionate. And obviously, without a true answer.




GGG is an era great. He is not yet an all-time great.

SRL is an all-time great.

SRL's speed, power, movement chin, heart and all-around athletic ability would have been too much for GGG.

SRL wins a unanimous decision.

-Randy G."


I agree with about 99 percent of what you are saying. There is a one percent chance -- of course I'm speculating that -- 3g would have caught Ray. Ray had everything that you said but a great chin. But his speed and smarts kept him from getting finished a lot of times after he got knocked on his butt.

As amateurs and pros, the most chinny great and good amateurs and pros in history would be Sugar Ray Leonard and Howard Davis Jr. They were master at rising from knockdowns and whuppin' butts.

My extended family's boksing libraries have old 8mm and 16mm films, 3/5 and 1/2 betamax and VHS tapes on those suckers. Holla!

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The Commish:

I did an interview in NYC (using an interpreter) with Rigo around this time of year in 201. It was shortly before he won the 122-pound belt from Rico Ramos. I asked if he planned on moving up to featherweight before much longer.

"I am very comfortable at 122," he replied. Then he surprised me when he said, "I can move down to 118 quicker and easier than I can move to 126. I don't even walk around at 126. I can get to 118 with no problem."

Indeed, he can. When he beat Ramos for the Super Bantamweight crown, Rigo weighed 120 1/2. In his very last defense, back in July, he weighed 121 1/2.

In his massive amateur record, during which time he won two Olympic gold medals (2000 & 2004), he fought most of his fights as a bantamweight. In several of his earlier amateur fights, he fought bantamweights while weighing considerably less than the flyweight limit of 112.

I'm sure if the money was right, Rigo would get in against Nicholas Walters or Vasyl Lomachenko. He may even beat them. Why should he, though? He is already showing himself to be one of history's great 122-pound champions, and just may drop down and wreak havoc on the world's bantamweights.

We have spoken about era greats and all-time greats in other posts. Guillermo Rigondeaux is an era great who is rapidly closing in on becoming an all-time great.

Hopefully, he doesn't throw away his impending legendary status for the sake of the almight dollar.

-Randy G.

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The Commish:

I love these kind of questions spark much debate, all of them intelligent and all of them passionate. And obviously, without a true answer.



How would GGG do against Demetrius Andrade? How would GGG do against Andre Ward? These are questions which can initiate much debate, with some opinions going one way and some opinions going the other. Just like the other night, when Nicholas Walters faced Nonito Donaire.



Some of us picked Walters. Some picked Donaire. Then, after all the debate, we got our answer.



Such can never be the case with a historical Dream Match. Muhammad Ali vs Jack Johnson. Sugar Ray Robinson vs Carlos Monzon. Roberto Duran vs Benny Leonard. Sugar Ray Leonard vs. Gennady Golovkin. Obviously, there is no answer here which any of us can correctly give. It's just opinions. It's not Walters vs. Donaire, where we gave opinions, then watched as our opinions either came true or fell on their face.



Ah, yes, SRL vs. GGG. Lots of opinions up above. Leonard wasn't big enough for GGG. SRL was really a middleweight. SRL could not have taken GGG's power. And on and on. All interesting thoughts. But all opinion. And speculation.



My turn for opinion and speculation.



GGG is 31-0 with 28 knockouts. He is the baby-faced assassin who takes no prisoners. He has stopped/KO'd his last 18 opponents. The last man--and only one of three--to make it to the final bell against GGG was Amar Amari, who lost an eight-round decision to GGG in Junew 2008. In that fight, GGG won 23 of a possible 24 rounds on the judges' collective scorecards. After that began the knockout streak, the WBA title win, the IBO title win, an impressive debut on HBO and knockout after knockout.



On October 18, GGG did it again. He stopped rough Marco Antonio Rubio in round two. GGG made it look easy. Ridiculously easy. He played with Rubio. He toyed with him. He waded through Rubio's vaunted power (he had 51 knockouts in his 59 victories) as if Rubio were firing spitballss at a battleship. Most of us have had rougher sessions play-fighting with our kids.



GGG is an era great. He may well be on his way to being an all-time great. But right now, he is an era great. He is great for the time period he is fighting in. He has crushed some very tough men in defense of his IBO and WBA crowns. Daniel Geale. Curtis Stevens. Matthew Macklin. Nobuhiro Ishida. Gabe Rosado.



However, he hasn't been in with his top contemporaries: Miguel Cotto. Sergio Martinez. Canelo Alvarez. Hassan N'Dam N'Jikam. Peter Quiilin. Felix Sturm. Jermaine Taylor.



Could/would GGG beat all of them? Perhaps. Maybe even probably. But the fact is, he hasn't faced them. He hasn't moved up one or two divisions. He hasn't fought Carl Froch, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. or Andre Ward.



Leonard fought all the best: Roberto Duran (three times). Wilfred Benitez. Thomas Hearns (twice). Marvelous Marvin Hagler. He moved up. This welterweight, who fought as a 139-pounder in the amateurs, won pro titles in the jr. middleweight, middleweight and light heavyweight divisions. He beat Hagler. It was controversial and always will be. But SRL won. I am on record saying he deserved the win. Would GGG have beaten the great Hagler? I seriously doubt it.



GGG is an era great. He is not yet an all-time great.



SRL is an all-time great.



SRL's speed, power, movement chin, heart and all-around athletic ability would have been too much for GGG.



SRL wins a unanimous decision.



-Randy G.

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The Shadow:

"I'd like to see it. Rigo says he can make bantamweight without any trouble and fights at 122 to get the bigger fights.

Rigo also says 126 is a bit heavy but he may consider it for a big enough purse however he was clear that he wasn't chasing anyone at that weight.

Maybe things will change with time."




Interesting stuff. Where did you see this?

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brownsugar:

GGG is going to have to lure better fighters than the inept bum he fought Sat night.
It not GGG's fault... But it seems he can only lure declining fighters who need a payday.

Tyson had the same problem but we still enjoyed his fights.

GGG just needs that one signature win so he can receive the official stamp of greatness (although he is widely regarded as the best in class)

I think 2015 will be the year of the Beast!

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brownsugar:

I'd like to see it. Rigo says he can make bantamweight without any trouble and fights at 122 to get the bigger fights.
Rigo also says 126 is a bit heavy but he may consider it for a big enough purse however he was clear that he wasn't chasing anyone at that weight.
Maybe things will change with time.

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brownsugar:

"Dude was 173 last night. He cut weight to fight at 165 as an amateur. He's not that small of a middleweight. By comparison, Andre Ward was 176 when he beat then-light heavyweight champion Chad Dawson, who came in at 185.



(Yes, Ward fought at 178 in the Olympics but only because the US team had Andre Dirrell at 165 and Ward was the one skilled enough to beat up on the bigger dudes.)



Ward's lawyer told Jim Lampley yesterday that Ward is ready, willing and able to get into the ring with Golovkin anytime, anywhere.



And from what I saw yesterday, I remain utterly convinced on the outcome."




Wow are you serious? That's not a baby middleweightby any standard, but consider some welters and junior welters weigh that much between fights.

Cotto weighed about 165 for Floyd.

Kirkland and Chavez scale well over 200 lbs between fights.



Ward get up to 183



You have a point

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stormcentre:

I think (and I thought this before Donaire fought Walters) Rigo took something out of Donaire.

Nevertheless Nonito is a quality guy/operator.

Thing is, he hasn't been the same in the gym since Rigo dissected him, and the last thing Donaire needed in his next big fight (yes I know Nonito has fought in between Rigo and Walters) was a (bigger) guy like Walters that also has speed and some power.

Still, tis the fight game and boyz need to get paid.

Someone please put Rigo and Walters in the same ring and tell them winner takes the cash.

Probably not a good for Walter's health though.

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stormcentre:

The Rubio fight - as clear cut as it was - and as good as 3G is - doesn't really show us how 3G is going to handle 10 or 12 hard rounds with someone that can hit him back and make him (meaningfully) think.

Rubio was nothing more than a strategic opponent for Gennady Golovkin – he was never going to last or put up a decent fight.

Gennady Golovkin and particularly Abel Sanchez, before the fight, both knew the outcome was practically predetermined.

Admittedly, Geale didn't have the power, but if you have a look at his movement and how he pivoted when 3G came in and pestered him with a (unfortunately not very powerful) jab; a part of the recipe of how to deal with a guy like Gennady can be seen.

Kassim Ouma did a similar thing, and kept it up for all the fight; it went the distance and that was the last time 3G fought a guy like that.

But it wasn't the last time he fought a really tough and durable guy; I'm not saying 3G is scared - more he's clever and (to date, been) well managed.

Whilst I am unsure whether Cotto would beat 3G, if Cotto took the fight and took it seriously, it would show us how 3G handles someone that can hit hard, read the play and time a guy like 3G.

Cotto is a small middleweight and at the end of his prime these days.

Korobov, after being jilted by Quillin and Haymon, is available for a 3G fight.

Korobov also knows a thing or two about the tricks Gennady Golovkin uses – he even uses some of them himself, and I assume that that alone will ensure he doesn’t get a call from Abel.

It will be interesting to see who, out of, Canelo, Cotto and the other top dawgs that both HBO and Sanchez OK for Gennady Golovkin’s next opponent; really step up.

Stranger things have happened, but even if Canelo has forgot how easy Gennady handled him in Big Bear a few years back; I can’t see Golden Girl and HBO themselves wanting to risk their Mexican cash cow.

Damn it, I wish Gennady Golovkin came along when Hopkins, Toney and Roy Jones were around and in their prime.

As Mora would be yet another entree, or bump in the road, for 3G.

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The Commish:

"The fight will be in Monte Carlo on HBO.



TsAH will never put his guys in a ring with GGG. TsAH had Taylor,Quillin ,Jacobs locked in a closet last night so they didn't see the fight last night.



So who can give some rounds? Who can put up a decent fight? Who has the guts to get in the ring?



Who has never been knockout out before?



I hate to say it because he is so hard to watch ,but it would be nice to see him on the floor since he has never been knocked out.......the Latin snake. Mora."




I am with you on putting the "Latin Snake" in the ring against GGG. He is constantly complaining that he can't get any fights and that nobody will fight him.



If the IBO and WBA could sanction GGG defending against Osumanu Adama in Monte Carlo last February, then can let the "Latin Snake" out of his cage for a shot at GGG.



Mora has won three in a row, including a decision over tough Greg Proksa in 2013. This is the same Greg Proksa GGG wrecked in September 2012 when he was first unveiled to the boxing world. The toughness of Proksa made the fight interesting, as he had never been down prior to being dropped three times and thoroughly whupped by GGG.



Mora's toughness and cockiness could make for an interesting fight. His slippery style may also give GGG problems, and we would get to see another facet of the Golovkin fighting machine. For sure, Mora won't stand there for GGG to hit him with those piledriver shots.



It's going to be a busy year for GGG. He has said he would like to fight four and even five times.



There's nothing wrong with starting off 2015 with a challenge from Sergio Mora.



-Randy G.

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stormcentre:

I thought I had predicted something like what is happening now . . . . .

In my post here . . . .

http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?17140-Miss-Jackson-Suing-Floyd-Mayweather-Says-TMZ


I wrote . . . .

"Once the trend is set, that whole posse of Floyd's might just start thinking what they're sitting on is more than what they're getting. And from what I can tell the parameters of those relationships are pretty blurry even without the application of law of the so called wise".

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Radam G:

"I don't say this to dis him but Andre Ward is veeeeeery hard headed..."

YUP! This type of hardheadedness is what makes a boksingero great. As tons have done in yesteryears, SOG Ward will win it all, then go inside dat squared jungle and win so more. Holla!

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the Roast:

10. Cotto
9. B Hop
8. Kovalev
7. Froch
6. Wlad
5. Pacman
4. 3G
3. Ward
2. Rigo
1. Floyd

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Radam G:

"I was just being facetious with that one, my friend! But like you said, I wouldn't be surprised, I've heard of some strange requests.



If I remember correctly, Radam once allegedly made someone wear brown trunks or something like that to get a mental edge because of some alleged psychedelic effect it would have on the opponent.



Radam, what's the weirdest serious request/demand you've heard from a fighter or that you made yourself?



And after last night, has anyone's opinion on this matchup changed?"




That would be a hard call. But it would be Big Money Oscar D wearing a custom-made boxing cup with with footballer-like rib pads to cover his ribs because of some myth that I don't recall. He made Mayorga agree to let him use it.



Another would be Heavyweight King xxxx xxxxx, who actually used to wear pink boksing attire, making his opponent wear lady pink drawers. The dude -- a Big Texan name xxxxxx xxxx -- did it and in later life believe that it made him become gay. He suited some people but that that frivolous lawsuit was thrown out.



Boxing even outside of that squared jungle is the "theatre of the unexpected." And because it is a redlight-district sport, you will be shocked of what goes on.Their is all types of rituals, crime activities, superstitions, bullying to do this and that.



All the dirty haps of the game will forever be on da down low because it is too much money to lose to straighten it out. Holla!

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The Shadow:

"Ward's lawyer should be on the phone working on coming to a resolution with Goosen Tutor Promotions so that they can get in the ring ASAP. No company wants to be involved with boxer involved with legal proceedings .

If Haymon or any other outfit want Andre Ward then they better get to the table with an offer and a percentage of future fights. I'm sure The Goosen people will be reasonable if Ward puts out a statement exonerating Goosen from doing anything wrong.

Just because Dan passed doesn't mean the lawsuit will end. His family and company is still going to pursue it. Dan thought his reputation was hurt by awards actions and being a very proud man wanted his family name and reputation clear."


I don't say this to dis him but Andre Ward is veeeeeery hard headed...

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Radam G:

"100% agreed there are fighters who are there for the money, all of them really, then there are great fighters and there are great champions, great champions fight anyone without condition after condition to get the fight made, they don;t wait until they think the opponent has nothing left ! Leonard is not who you see in the dictionary when you look up great champion, great fighter yes !"

You will be badly mistaken if you believe that. Name me some great champions, and I will holla at the optical illusions and tricks that they pull. There are no great fighters that fought other great without conditions.

Boxing is a big business, firstly! And lastly. In the last 100 years, there has only been about 30 mayor pridefights. And 25,000+ prizefights. Holla!

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Radam G:

"Does Nonito still work with Victor Conte?"

NO! Conte resigned from working with boxer. Holla!

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Carmine Cas:

"Garcia fought a boxer who was 19-3 and rated number 70 in the lightweight division. Garcia is the light welterweight champion and couldn't be bothered to make the weight for the fight and came in at a higher catch weight of 142.

Rubio is a veteran of 65 fights with 59 wins and 51 knockouts. At the time of the GGG fight he held the interim WBC world championship. Besides holding a silly title Rubio has been in with top champions and held his own. He went 12 against JCCJ and lost by a few rounds.

After taking the interim belt , GGG is now the mandatory for Cotto. I think the WBC ordered Cotto to fight the winner of last nights fight. Of course they will let him fight Canelo first if fees are paid but Cotto might just have to drop the WBC belt and GGG will pick it up against someone else.

Taking on a tough Mexican in Cali was a great business move, a sell out crowd with some of the Hollywood crowd is a good sign for GGG.

No comparison between the set up Garcia - Salka fight card compared to the wonderful card HBO put on last night.

I think Garcia and GGG were both-5000 with the bookies.

GGG has more fans then Garcia because of his style and he says - I like fight.

Garcia robs Herrera then gets a soft opponent next time out and says - I like al Haymon ."


Pretty much nails it.

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Boxing Results

FIGHTER Result Rnd

Gennady Golovkin

Marco Antonio Rubio

KO Rd. 2

Steve Cunningham

Natu Visinia

RTD Rd. 3

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