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Froggy:

I agree 100% I don't care if one guy comes in 50 pounds under the limit, as long as that is his choice and his opponent is allowed to weigh-in at the maximum for that weight class !

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The Commish:

Oh and Billy, welcome to the site. Hopefully, you'll chime in here frequently on all of the posts on our favorite sport.

-Randy G.

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gibola:

Hi there.



Point taken.



If the upper weight for a Cotto-Mayweather is 160 and they both weight in 152, hell, if they weigh in 142, no problem, they could have weighted 160 if they chose and it's a middleweight fight if one is the legitimate middleweight champ. But saying a middleweight in a title fight can't weigh over 155 or 156 is the problem. It's no longer at the middleweight limit and can't be for the title. We need to be careful or we'll have welterweight champions redefining their weight class as 'up to 144' if you want a title shot. If they weren't sanctioned as legit title fights you'd have some defence against it. As the bodies sanction everything - Pacman/PBF/Cotto can do what they want and that's wrong. If Cotto fights Andy Lee with a 155lb limit is that a middleweight title fight? Not to me. Call me old-fashioned but if both guys aren't free to weight 160 it sure as hell isn't a middleweight title fight. Hagler v Leonard/Hearns/Duran all at 160. None of this rubbish.

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Radam G:

For the record, anything below a weight division is in the division. New Jack attitude is the problem, not the weights and so-called catchweights.



Bob FitzSimmon was heavyweight at between 155lbs and 172lbs. Never was he a real heavyweight if somebody insists that he has to be over 175lbs for the division. Henry Armstrong won the welterweight title at 138lbs. So was he really a welterweight? Tommy Burns fought as the heavyweight champion of the world at between 162lbs to 180lbs. So was he really a heavyweight? When Da Manny beat Margarito for the light middleweight title, Da Manny was 144lbs. So was he really a light middle?



Fans and fanfaronades are bytching a lot about nothing. Boxing is always the way it has always been -- negotiable and corrupted and crooked as a banana. In other words, it is fine as usual. And making a lot of peeps do as usual: bytch, complain and go apesyet. Hehe! Holla!

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gibola:

I have a problem with this whole Pac/Mayw/Cotto era. They're great fighters but the traditions of boxing are being forgotten, swept away. I know this is a rant but here goes...if it's not at the correct weight it's a non-title catchweight match in my mind. Sadly, it seems everything is negotiable these days. Was Cotto-Martinez made at 159? If it was it, wasn't a middleweight title fight and shouldn't be viewed as such. In the same way Ray Leonard didn't really win the lightheavyweight title from Don Lalonde as the Golden Boy was forced to weigh in at 168. If Cotto and Mayweather fight with an upper limit of 156 it's not a middleweight title fight. I read PBF wanted to defend both his 147/154 belts against Maidana? That's impossible - either Maidana has to weight under 147 or under 154. If he's under 147 he's a welter, if he's over he's a lightmiddle. Part of me thinks the whole idea of being a 'champion' of anything is meaningless nowadays. You can set your own weights and still get sanctioned, what exactly is a welterweight anymore? I don't mind the catchweight stuff giving us good matches, but they should not be sanctioned as title fights if they aren't at the proper weight limit. This bull makes me think why don't we just scrap a century of history and classifications and say fighter A is fighting fighter B at whatever weight (fill in the 140-154lb figure) and forget things being for titles or mentioning weight classes? It's virtually where we're at. Rant over!!

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brownsugar:

"bSug



Awesome read my man. Im so psyched for this fight, i just hope GGG haters will give credit when he stops the real deal Geale."




A stoppage would be nice BFF, unless Geale does something totally different I cant see any other outcome....

..But I've yet to see Geale fight a different style. ....anyway Im looking forward to the fight as well.

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brownsugar:

I'm getting that book this week.

I still believe its a possibility. ....The world awaits. Mayweather only has another year left at the most.
If he still has the ability to fight at the championship level ....he should make it count for something. If he doesn't win the paycheck will make for an adequate retirement. Allowing him to maintain his lavish lifestyle.
Hollywood is not going to give the stiff acting boxer too many more opportunities after he retires.
Did any body see Mayweather's cameo in Think Like a Man 2 ?.... Needs lots of work.

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The Commish:

Nice job, Billy. Long post, lot of words. Few truths.

You spent quite a lot of time talking about welter/jr.middle Wendy Toussaint and how I took him away from the gym. The fact is, soon after he first walked into the gym, he felt the owners coming onto him very strong, wanting him to sign something. He was confused and scared. He tried talking to me, but I don't speak Creole, so I had no idea what he was talking about.

To keep things short, I called a friend of mine who does speak Creole. He spoke to Wendy. I told Wendy if you want to turn pro, you should train there and have at least a few amateur fights. It is not what he wanted. I gave Wendy my number, and told him he could call me any time, and if he ever hasd questions, I would make sure to pick him up and take him to my friend, who could translate, and I'd answer them. When I returned to the gym, it was discovered I had taken Wendy somewhere. Frankie and I had words.

At that point, I elected to leave the gym. Wendy called me, then talked to my friend again. He told me he wanted me to work with him. I told him I would get him in shape first, then we would work on the boxing. For close to three months I worked with him. I worked with him six days a week.

Then, he was paid a visit at his home by Frankie. He returned to the gym and started boxing. He is a gifted young man and quite an athlete. I wish him well, but can clearly see he needs a new trainer. Clearly. A few weeks agop, he came running back to me to manage him...said he would sign with me. I turned him down and told him to go back to Frankie. He did.

As for Anthony, he is also a very gifted athlete. It is no secret that he didn't take some segments of his boxing career as seriosuly as he should have and as seriously as he takes his career now. I think you are doing a great job with him and are a much better trainer than you mentioned in the post above.

Dom? No, I don't particularly like him. Frankie & I? We mended fences and shook hands months ago.

I do not disparage or make up stories. Nor do I post pictures of me with celebs and then make up stories about them. When they are on my show I take photos with them. I've also been in this game close to 50 years. I think I have made a few acquaintances in that time. I am out there on the social media network.

Before I ramble as long as you did, I wish you and Mr. Karperis my best.

He has a nice career in front of him.

My best.

With sincerity,

-Randy G.

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brownsugar:

"Good point, he's very small for the weight.



He may very well have a Gamboa beard but I just haven't seen the evidence of his "weak" chin yet.



Same with Ward. I've seen him eat flush shots from Al Green and Carl Froch. But you can read much into the Darnell Boone debacle.



Wlad on the other hand is vulnerable whereas his brother has a jaw of titanium.



Random aside: I don't get the argument for Wlad on the P4P list. If you take away his dimensions - height, reach etc - is he skill-for-skill among the 10 best fighters in the world?



I doubt it.



Now imagine Rigo, B-Hop, Ward or Floyd as 6-7 heavyweights with the exact same attributes they have now.



The mere thought should be illegal."




If Ward ever accepts a fight with GGG or Kovalev you will witness exactly what I'm talking about.

I would include Stevenson but I think Ward could neutralize Stevenson. And he has been dazed on few occasions. ( Edison Miradanda hurt him but Ward kept his composure)



Its not a crime to have an average chin.

Few men are put together like Marvin Hagler or Julio Caesar Chavez.



If you hit most guys on the point of their chins ... They will drop. Sometimes a fighter is in such tremendous shape the can recuperate extremely fast. If a fighter is clipped ....but not hard enough to induce a state of instant unconsciousness.... The subsequent Adrenalin surge can make him temporarily invincible.



I'm just going by my personal experience. And what Ive seen. I had an average chin during my boxing days. But if the adrenaline was flowing I could take a sledge hammer to the face and keep on going. Sometimes getting dropped can be a good thing ... But sometimes the fighter can't get back up...... The adrenalin rush can't always be relied upon.



Regarding Klitschko's pound for pound status. I once heard a locally renound Karate instructer say when he was being praised for his ability....." If only l was born a big dude ".



And while I've always said that Wlad's success was due to his size he has also incorporated some new wrinkles to his game. He's learned how to pace himself so that he can stay mobile for twelve rounds while keeping his punch rate up...and he's learned how to relax when he gets hit , hold on, and just ride out the storm.

And he's no longer the one dimensional one-two fighter he used to be. Its almost scary that he's still head and shoulders above the rest of the heavyweights He's 37 years old and hasn't been tested since his early years.



Well I got off topic a bit...I'll catch up tomorrow.

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The Shadow:

"Marquez is not on EPO. I was just comparing roids and PEDs in general with other users. Hulkquez is likely on some 1980$' syet of "Grorm." And less than 10 years -- maybe five -- ev'ybodee and dey momma will likely know. Stay tuned. Holla!"



F it. I'm just going to say it. I wasn't there but people were.



Marquez is most likely on a designer steroid. It's not as amplified as people think. Doing weights when you've never done any will yield results.



However he's exceeded his natural frame, which is a dead give-away. Homeboy is most 75% on some EPO, he's on HGH and he's probably on the cream. Memo loves the cream.



And Storm just broke it down perfectly. Certain combos give you extra effects.



We're in a forum so we can express whatever we want. We're not held to NY Times ethical standards as posters and that's good bc the truth can come out.



There's some new ish too that may even be more potent that they're doing now. Either way, fact is it's undetectable.



VADA, USADA, it doesn't MADA!



His nemesis is/was on that high-octane sh*t Lance used.



Kryptonite? Come on. It's clear as day. EPO! Everyone knows. (Holla at me Sept 14.)



Khan? All kinds of high-octane crap.



Chavez. But he's gotten popped. Only idiots get popped.



Berto? TEST!



Gamboa? You already know. Dude was likely cycling for his last fight, though this is just what I see not what I've heard.



SP? I'd trust him with my niece but I wouldn't trust that focker with a syringe.



There's so much.



I was reading about Florence Griffith-Joyner, an Olympic-level sprinter struggling to silver medals in '84 and '87.



She starts getting advice from Ben Johnson, gets comic-hero buff, jaw elongates, voice gets deep and she's SMASHING world records while increasing 100m and 200m performance by like 0.30 seconds.



At close to 30 years of age.



Then Johnson gets popped, tests get stringent and *POOF* she retires at the height of her powers.



Then she dies at 38 from classic steroid side effects.



"Things that make you go 'Hmm!'"



And we see a lot of that crap nowadays.



Because we want to believe.



And these jackals deceive.



Some time ago, Dino pointed out something very significant: at the elite level, no matter what new regimen you join, you're only going to improve by 5% at most.

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The Shadow:

"Shadow i don't think he's weak ...but he definitely is not a Caesar Chavez senior in the chin dept.... He's already small for junior featherweight... doesn't rehydrate over 126ish. And even though he recovers exceptionally well, his chin is no better than Gamboas'. Thank God he doesn't fight like Gambia.



Just saying ... Fighters such as Ward, Klitschko and Rigo are sensational on defense. But all those guys are very vulnerable."




Good point, he's very small for the weight.



He may very well have a Gamboa beard but I just haven't seen the evidence of his "weak" chin yet.



Same with Ward. I've seen him eat flush shots from Al Green and Carl Froch. I don't think you can read much into the Darnell Boone debacle.



Wlad on the other hand is vulnerable whereas his brother has a jaw of titanium.



Random aside: I don't get the argument for Wlad on the P4P list. If you take away his dimensions - height, reach etc - is he skill-for-skill among the 10 best fighters in the world?



I doubt it.



Now imagine Rigo, B-Hop, Ward or Floyd as 6-7 heavyweights with the exact same attributes they have now.



The mere thought should be illegal.

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BFF:

bSug



Awesome read my man. Im so psyched for this fight, i just hope GGG haters will give credit when he stops the real deal Geale.

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Radam G:

"Hmmmm . . .

Marquez, if he was on PEDs, and if he was on a AOPES as claimed, was (most likely) not solely on the AOPES.

Frequently AOPES and other - more steroid like - performance enhancing substances are mixed together, and even if they're not some of the new $hit out there breaks down into compounds and molecules that provide other performance benefits; similarly to how cocaine users that drink report a better high - because the two mixed in the body create a Cocaethylene "mix".

Marquez, to me, looked as if he had far too much fluid retention for a guy that was not on the juice and/or only on EPO or another AOPES.

If AOPES's were not beneficial to boxer's performances, then neither is altitude training or any kind of stamina training for that matter.

I disagree with your claims in relation to any artificial oxygen carrying substance (previously referred to as AOCPES in my earlier post http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?16242-Floyd-and-Maidana-Will-Do-USADA-Testing&p=58436&viewfull=1#post58436) but will leave it there as I respect you and your posts.

Not sure whether you're jiving or not with your comments there RG. . . so that's all from me my friend."


Marquez is not on EPO. I was just comparing roids and PEDs in general with other users. Hulkquez is likely on some 1980$' syet of "Grorm." And less than 10 years -- maybe five -- ev'ybodee and dey momma will likely know. Stay tuned. Holla!

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stormcentre:

"You sharp focker, you! ;)"

:)

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The Shadow:

"There is a very good reason Oscar accepted Shane's admission, act and apology and it has nothing to do with his forgiveness or the fact that Mosley was a GBP partner.

Nuff said.

:)"


You sharp focker, you! ;)

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stormcentre:

"
This is a crazy game, y'all. And like TGD says, these guys are way ahead of the testing. Conte says he's apprehensive to speak of it because it gives other dopers/peddlers knowledge to continue coming up with ways to circumvent the testing.

I will say this: Oscar De La Hoya is damn good guy for forgiving Mosley for basically drugging himself to victory in their rematch.

He won the last four rounds in his 7-5 victory, edging it by having the extra conditioning his EPO shots and steroids gave him.

I'm not sure I would've just forgiven him for that."


There is a very good reason Oscar accepted Shane's admission, act and apology and it has nothing to do with his forgiveness or the fact that Mosley was a GBP partner.

Nuff said.

:)

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stormcentre:

"I hear you about Conte. But he doesn't know "syet 'bout boksing," biting off Uncle Roger. Boxing is largely mental. Guys on roids have been going off in gyms for years. We call it "Roid Rage." And tell them to pipe down or we throwdown on their arses. And literally made them CRY.

Every top-dawg pug knows every punk-bytch phony on dat syet. And just wait for him to go off, so that you can invite him into dat squared jungle for a skill-pays-the-bill arse thrashing. There is no shortcuts to boxing glory other being given gift verdicts.

You cannot have agitated rage and be successful against cool, calm and collected adroited boxers and/or boxers-killa-thrilla-blood-spilla from Manila and anywhere else.

The problem with EPO, is that it makes an adroited whup-@$$er into an edgy neurosis. That is what Marquez has become in his metamorphosis of Hulkquez. If Da Manny would not have got eager and oky, Hulkquez would not have come out the next round.

One needs pure mental endurance and stamina. EPO does not relax you or smarten you. That is what you need as the top of the food chain of kick arse. I read you clearly. But find me one guy with mad boxing skills to tell you that he was helped by EPO. He will tellnyou that it takes away, not improve. And it creeks him the double fudge out. Holla!"



Hmmmm . . .

Marquez, if he was on PEDs, and if he was on a AOPES as claimed, was (most likely) not solely on the AOPES.

Frequently AOPES and other - more steroid like - performance enhancing substances are mixed together, and even if they're not some of the new $hit out there breaks down into compounds and molecules that provide other performance benefits; similarly to how cocaine users that drink report a better high - because the two mixed in the body create a Cocaethylene "mix".

Marquez, to me, looked as if he had far too much fluid retention for a guy that was not on the juice and/or only on EPO or another AOPES.

If AOPES's were not beneficial to boxer's performances, then neither is altitude training or any kind of stamina training for that matter.

I disagree with your claims in relation to any artificial oxygen carrying substance (previously referred to as AOCPES in my earlier post http://www.thesweetscience.com/forums/showthread.php?16242-Floyd-and-Maidana-Will-Do-USADA-Testing&p=58436&viewfull=1#post58436) but will leave it there as I respect you and your posts.

Not sure whether you're jiving or not with your comments there RG. . . so that's all from me my friend.

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brownsugar:

"Yeah what he ^ said...

ha..

Bsug like a poet.

I can see Geale trying to come out early and make a stand and pay for it with an early KO if he doesn't start out cautious.

Make no mistake about it, GGG will have his normal emotionless poker face on but what

you wont see is the fire burning in his soul from the passing of his father. I feel sorry for Geale and I am not being funny."


Amayseng ...your so right..

The politeness and respect being shown between these two camps is barely able to conceal the tension.....set to explode into a red mist of carnage this weekend.
All I can say is...if you have ring side seats ..don't wear white!!!!!!

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The Good Doctor:

Thank you sir. Sometimes life gets in the way of the important things....................like boxing.

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Radam G:

Wow! Keep Teddy Atlas. He is legit and passionate. John Scully is an emotional romanticist. Beside, long in the tooth is long in the wisdom for talking heads in boxing.

Teddy is just reaching his prime at 55-years old. He has at least a good 20 years left. Holla!

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amayseng:

"Even if you locked GGG up in an airtight reinforced lead vault, .... it still wouldn't prevent the luminesce of his near limitless potential from shining through.

From his impeccable footwork, which permits him to glide effortlessly towards his opponent while cutting of the ring like a geometry major.... Golovkin simultaneously exudes the technical menace of a cyborg super soldier... Calmly seaching his database for the right combination as he backs his prey into a corner.

His balance is fluid enough to allow him to change direction instantaneously to adjust his offence or defense as needed.

And his polyphasic self adjusting offence is delivered in non repeating combinations that usually solicits a panic attack from his victims.

Its a formless pattern that doesn't allow his opponent the opportunity of predicting when or where the next salvo will land.

A lot of empty praise is being heaped on Geale in publicizing this fight.

Not that the man doesn't deserve respect.
Geale is tenacious, throws in volume and even though he's known to have a sturdy set of wheels...
Geale isn't so mobile that he tries to circumnavigate the entire ring like Lara hoping to pile up pot-shot points from the outside. That's not his style.

However the man has already lost to two fighters who could never win a title fighting in the United States. (Mundine and Barker) those guys are decent but they're not even considered as dangerous threats to our domestic talent.

Geales' title winning effort against Sturms is noteworthy but Sturms is a long way away from being the guy who lost a highly controversial decision against Oscar D L Hoya.
Sturm became an isolated fighter and grew soft taking on middling challengers like Sam Soliman and Ronald Hearns. The same Yearns who was beat up by journyman Harry Joe Yorgey.

however it must be said that Geale is a hands-on blue collar warrior... By the middle rounds Geale will have his earmuffs-on, his chin tucked, standing in the pocket forehead to forehead trying to outbang a banger who is so far advanced in the skills department its like comparing a blue-collar worker to the CEO of the company.

By the 9th round or sooner Golovkin will provide authorizion for the valiant Aussee to take some medical leave ....Either by way of cuts, a stunning knock out or by debilitating body shot.

You never know ....GGG has so many tools he may just want to get creative this time.

Enjoy the show."



Yeah what he ^ said...

ha..

Bsug like a poet.

I can see Geale trying to come out early and make a stand and pay for it with an early KO if he doesn't start out cautious.

Make no mistake about it, GGG will have his normal emotionless poker face on but what

you wont see is the fire burning in his soul from the passing of his father. I feel sorry for Geale and I am not being funny.

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brownsugar:

Shadow i don't think he's weak ...but he definitely is not a Caesar Chavez senior in the chin dept.... He's already small for junior featherweight... doesn't rehydrate over 126ish. And even though he recovers exceptionally well, his chin is no better than Gamboas'. Thank God he doesn't fight like Gambia.

Just saying ... Fighters such as Ward, Klitschko and Rigo are sensational on defense. But all those guys are very vulnerable.

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brownsugar:

Even if you locked GGG up in an airtight reinforced lead vault, .... it still wouldn't prevent the luminesce of his near limitless potential from shining through.



From his impeccable footwork, which permits him to glide effortlessly towards his opponent while cutting of the ring like a geometry major.... Golovkin simultaneously exudes the technical menace of a cyborg super soldier... Calmly seaching his database for the right combination as he backs his prey into a corner.



His balance is fluid enough to allow him to change direction instantaneously to adjust his offence or defense as needed.



And his polyphasic self adjusting offence is delivered in non repeating combinations that usually solicits a panic attack from his victims.



Its a formless pattern that doesn't allow his opponent the opportunity of predicting when or where the next salvo will land.



A lot of empty praise is being heaped on Geale in publicizing this fight.



Not that the man doesn't deserve respect.

Geale is tenacious, throws in volume and even though he's known to have a sturdy set of wheels...

Geale isn't so mobile that he tries to circumnavigate the entire ring like Lara hoping to pile up pot-shot points from the outside. That's not his style.



However the man has already lost to two fighters who could never win a title fighting in the United States. (Mundine and Barker) those guys are decent but they're not even considered as dangerous threats to our domestic talent.



Geales' title winning effort against Sturms is noteworthy but Sturms is a long way away from being the guy who lost a highly controversial decision against Oscar D L Hoya.

Sturm became an isolated fighter and grew soft taking on middling challengers like Sam Soliman and Ronald Hearns. The same Yearns who was beat up by journyman Harry Joe Yorgey.



however it must be said that Geale is a hands-on blue collar warrior... By the middle rounds Geale will have his earmuffs-on, his chin tucked, standing in the pocket forehead to forehead trying to outbang a banger who is so far advanced in the skills department its like comparing a blue-collar worker to the CEO of the company.



By the 9th round or sooner Golovkin will provide authorizion for the valiant Aussee to take some medical leave ....Either by way of cuts, a stunning knock out or by debilitating body shot.



You never know ....GGG has so many tools he may just want to get creative this time.



Enjoy the show.

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The Shadow:

"One of the many mysteries that make the "theater of the unexpected", that much more "unexpected""

Flacko, did you catch All Access Epilogue? They kept talking about school this, school that. They even had Lara's pimp looking uncle in the audience yelling "Escuela Cubana!" And "Welcome to Cuban School!"

Then Canelo's brother started talking ish, "Is this Cuban school? He looked like he didn't graduate kindergarten!"

Anyway, yes, it is very much the theatre of the unexpected. If you see all five parts, you'll be amazed.

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Radam G:

"One of the many mysteries that make the "theater of the unexpected", that much more "unexpected""

Those on that syet don't and didn't do any better while on it. Mosley, Vargas, Bey, Tarver and Hulkquez, to name some.

It is like the prime Sugar Ray Leonard said: "Just give me my millions.... And I've help you feed that shyt to 'em...And whup their @$$$.

From the inside view, I say, "Don't believe the hype of dat syet or the exaggerations of peddling lords Conte and fallen Angel Heredia. Dat syet has at its best a bumped-up placedo effect. Elite of the elitest takes smooth operators, not edgy neurosises. Holla!

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The Shadow:

"Yes Guillermo Rigondeaux is an interesting boxer.

I am just trying to think of when I last saw a boxer whose skills are so beautifully and effectively packaged together as Guillermo Rigondeaux's.

For me, what tops it off, is that (unlike most pure technicians) Guillermo Rigondeaux has KO power, but he doesn't pass up on hiDs absolute "A" game (skills wise) to deliver the power.
So far, like Roach, I don't think I can (yet) think of a previous boxer/fighter I have seen either live or taped whose skills are as beautifully, brilliantly, ruthlessly and effectively packaged together as Guillermo Rigondeaux's.

He would be an interesting technical-boxing case study.

Aside from all the blatantly obvious fundamentals he has; his foot work, calmness, economy of motion, timing, balance, instincts and reflexes are simply freakishly exceptional.

Aside from all that, if the guy was any cooler he would still be in the freezer . . . I mean he basically exploded onto the scene (after a few fights) and took out Nonito Donaire; whom is very capable and the year previous to his Guillermo Rigondeaux fight won fighter or KO of the year!

Guillermo Rigondeaux's won't (or shouldn't) have any trouble finding a new promoter."


Great breakdown/scouting report. Couldn't have said it any better. I can't think of anyone either.

Like Big George Foreman used to say about Mayweather, he's a "natural" fighter. He doesn't have to think, get in stance and so forth; it's as natural to him as walking or as swimming is to a fish.

Even top fighters like Andre Ward and Erislandy Lara aren't natural; they're well-schooled but you can see that they're in fight mode, if that makes sense. Then you have some guys like Cotto who have to find their rhythm by bouncing before they can fight.

I've only really gotten that "natural" sense from Mayweather, Rigo and, to a lesser extent, James Toney.

And guess what, Rigondeaux may be even more natural than Floyd! His motions, movements, everything Storm said. It's like he was made for it. Or like astute said, he's like a mongoose, insect, all that.

And I am not sure his chin is as bad as people say. Dude had 500 amateur fights and vs was never floored. He got caught in one fight fighting outside of himself by following Ronnie Shields' instructions. Then he promptly replaced him.

Then he got floored by Donaire when he was in a position he wasn't used to coming out of a clinch; he didn't think that was fighting time. But it's the pros here, not the amateurs. So I'm not totally sold on that bad chin rep.

(Unlike that fart he just blitzed, he dusted himself off and got right back up and continued the Escuelita.)

When you consider that he didn't start boing till he was 13, you know there's some freakish talent within him naturally.

B-Suge, Alan has his number already. Better believe it.

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BillyD:

"Billy, Billy Billy:



I know a lot of what Anthony was going through prior to leaving that gym. I also am thrilled to hear he is with the same young lady for over a year. I am also happy for him that he left the other trainer. You are doing a great job with him and the improvement is there. But don't get upset when I pick on the quality of his opposition. If an opponent has lost four straight fights and has won one of his last eight, I'll say it. No big deal. If you and Anthony feel there was improvement, that's all that matters. Teddy Atlas didn't seem very complimentary.



As for Wendy, sure, I worked with him. I put him in the phenomenal shape he was in when he returned to the gym. He's a nice kid who plays one against the other. Only recently, after an argument with his management, he came to me and asked me to take him back. I shook my head and told him to go work out his problems. He did. He also returned to the same trainer. I don't buy the language stuff. I had no problem witgh it. Neither did Wendy. He needs a new trainer. Maybe you.



I am not hiding behind any screen name. I sign my name here.



I will continue to write what I write and the facts. If Anthony's next oppoent has three losses in a row, but they were all tough losses which could have easily been wins, I will say so. If he looks great, which I hope he does, I will say that, too. If he looks bad, well, deal with it. I'll also say that.



As for the fighters I train, they are doing well. They're not pro. They are young amateurs. There are three of them.



Keep up the nice work with Anthony. I can't wait to see his progress down the road.



-Randy G."




Randy,



I want to clear some things up. I was not pointing the screen name hiding was about you, my point was I did not come on here and create profile xyz123 and start blasting you without stating who I am. I am not that kind of guy and you probably already know that. I am a respectful person in the sport. Anyone around the scene who knows me, whether love me or hate me, I don't spew BS, steal fighters, discredit people in a gym, feed advice to other trainer's fighters, etc. I think you get the picture about me since you were around the scene with me for years. My point is I am who I am and I have been around a long time and it will be virtually impossible to find a negative thing about me from anyone except being lazy in my career at times for the over 30 yeras I been in the sport.



You are right, you are free to say or express an opinion as you like, but you can expect the same back. I should not have been so up tight about that. Throwing those stone in a glass house like I said shatter things.



After reading your reply, I have to admit you are good, very good with the writing; but I can see through the technique. You have clearly complimented me which I appreciated, but I don't feel the sincerity there. However, I can see you convieniently steered around certain questions while also pointing like you know things some people who were involved don't, and trying to paint yourself as the good guy. My issue is less and less about what was said about Anthony or Wendy. Wendy I know and besides warming him up on the mitts in the dressing room at a few fights and sparring a few rounds with him, I don't have much to say about him. He is a talented fighter as you said, but just like Anthony, he has some things to fine tune; but that goes for every fighter in the world. You were the one who jumped on an Anthony post and started rambling about Wendy, but twice targeted Dom as his trainer mentioning he should be fired. If it were that easy, why didn't you ask Frankie to take over the drivers seat and guide him? Heck, if you did not separate from the gym in such a negative way, you could probably come back and ask Frankie for the controls and I am certain Dom would not have an issue with that. That is kind of how my involvement with Anthony happened, but it was a group meeting that all parties decided I should take over the controls and there were no hard feelings. We are all still a team and like family. You already know I was training Alan G. before his first fight. He decided to sign a promotion agreement and move on to another gym. Are there any hard feelings at all, no. I embrace the guy every time I see him. I still to this day am willing to spar with any of his father's fighters he trains. We are all on good terms and it will remain that way. It is you who got caught in a mess with Wendy who now clearly has hard feelings because it did not turn out as you wanted.



Now I ask since you took target at Dom who I consider family to a public forum (you didn't mention names but let's not beat around the bush anymore), be honest with yourself and tell me if this is not how things transpired? You threw the stones so I am crashing windows now.



Did we all not belong to the same gym for some years?

Did you not convince a fairly new to the country Wendy to leave the gym with you and promise him the world; however, only a few short weeks later he came running back to the gym?

Did you not leave the gym for good at that time being you knew "that was the straw that broke the camels back"? However, whether you know it or not, there was an already strained relationship at the gym with some of your activity or business practices. I will remind you, the CCTV system I donated to the gym some years ago were installed not just to watch sparring, it was moreso about keeping an eye on what went on in the gym. I think you have an idea where I am going with this but we won't air that dirty laundry out in public like that.

Since Wendy came running back to the gym, wouldn't you consider that he fired you as a matter of fact and you hold some hard feelings?

You are on this thread in one post saying how Wendy still doesn't know how to jab, throw a proper right, or an upper cut; however you are posting to me how you got him into the best shape of his life and he was doing great. Come on Randy, a fighter does not perfect something to all of a sudden just forget how to do it and throw it out the window. You are contradicting yourself there man. If you complain he is sloppy with this or that, that tells me your training did NOTHING for him.



There are some other facts you are pretty sloppy with on this thread, but the only one I will point out is the fact Wendy was not signed or locked into any management you metion up until the day before that fight! That I can assure you, and I am in the know, saw it in front of me. So again, don't quote things that are not really facts.



It is clear you are bias, but again I will state in a public forum that Dom the trainer you are picking on was an easy target. You are picking on a gentleman who you clearly know does not have internet, nevermind know how to use it. Since we both agree as you say "deal with what you say" more or less, then deal with what I say. I can honestly say Dom's experience as a trainer dwarf your skills, and that is coming from my mouth who has monitored you both work with fighters. You make money working with white collar clients for the most part and they could run through the same routine buying a Billy Banks Tae Bo DVD in my opinion; so deal with what I say. You locked your scope on Dom as an easy target because you were ultimatley the guy fired by Wendy, and as I said I will not stand for it.



Anthony also does not appreciate you talking about his private life, health issues, lifestyle or anything else. So unless you want those stones crashing the window again, keep the talk on track and pick on his fighting since we are on a boxing forum. Again, there is more dirty laundry many people have, but it will not be metioned unless needed.



Oh, and of course your quick whitted reply to me had to mention the Teddy Atlas comment. Well Teddy Atlas is there to create drama or controversy as a commentator. Just look how he even has to try to spark that situation with the Chris interview in a professional way. What did he really say during the fight? How Duran was an opponent? How Anthony sold 300 tickets? How Anthony's left hood that rocked Duran knocked the rust out of him? Funny part is at the end of the fight, Teddy has the fight scored exactly how I had it at the fights and exactly how I told Anthony it was going between rounds (I do tell him every round if I think he won or lost the round). I also feel among people I know that Atlas as the FNF commentator is getting long in the tooth. The broadcast could use some new blood in that seat and probably bring in more viewership. A John Scully would be an excellent choice as lead commentator.



As for the comments on the fights I had an issue with; I am sure Duran or any other guy you call a punching bag would not appreciate it. Whether you like it or not, he is in there fighting as best he can. The guy was not in there taking a dive, he had a pulse. Someone like you with knowledge and influence in the sport should be the first to acknowledge even a drunk on a bar stool who decides to take that one fight in the ring has big heart. You to discredit a fighter I feel is pretty weak on your behalf. You are the guy who has to wake up in the morning and look yourself in the mirror. You have become the modern day TMZ of boxing by running around taking every picture you can with anyone and making stories up about it, some true and some not so true.



Randy, you know me and I am a normally quiet guy, but you targeted people you should not have. I used to look at you like a real gentleman. I saw what transpired with the gym and all that and I tried to brush it aside, but you kept pushing the button. Maybe you should look to fix the broken relationships rather than throwing stones at the people who did nothing but nice things for you.



I would rather just end this back and forth here and we can eventually close out this thread, but that is all up to you. Your actions caused a reaction and that is what brought this whole thing about.

Reply

amayseng:

What a heart breaking situation. I remember reading about this years ago.

God bless that child and family.

There is little more you can do better than help a child in this world.



Editor Mike the link is coming up an error for me. Is there a different link?

Reply

brownsugar:

John Henry was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame for his exploits it the sport. Its reported that he fought a lot of heavyweights due to the lightheavyweight divisions lackluster appeal. The heavyweight division cast a long impenetrable shadow over the fledgling 175 pounders at the time, John Henry found it more lucrative to fight heavyweights in non title bouts than growing icicles on his gloves waiting around for a decent payday at his regular weight. He also had a victory over the "Cinderella Man" James L Bradock during his peak.
Braddock would later avenge his loss in a rematch.
John Henry Lewis had a remarkable but little known career in one of the loneliest divisions in boxing

Interesting topic.

Reply

stormcentre:

Yes Guillermo Rigondeaux is an interesting boxer.



I am just trying to think of when I last saw a boxer whose skills are so beautifully and effectively packaged together as Guillermo Rigondeaux's.



For me, what tops it off, is that (unlike most pure technicians) Guillermo Rigondeaux has KO power, but he doesn't pass up on his absolute "A" game (skills wise) to deliver the power.



So far, like Roach, I don't think I can (yet) think of a previous boxer/fighter I have seen either live or taped whose skills are as beautifully, brilliantly, ruthlessly and effectively packaged together as Guillermo Rigondeaux's.



He would be an interesting technical-boxing case study.



Aside from all the blatantly obvious fundamentals he has; his foot work, calmness, economy of motion, timing, balance, instincts and reflexes are simply freakishly exceptional.



Aside from all that, if the guy was any cooler he would still be in the freezer . . . I mean he basically exploded onto the scene (after a few fights) and took out Nonito Donaire; whom is very capable and the year previous to his Guillermo Rigondeaux fight won fighter or KO of the year!



Guillermo Rigondeaux's won't (or shouldn't) have any trouble finding a new promoter.

Reply
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Boxing Results

FIGHTER Result Rnd

Guillermo Rigondeaux

Sod Kokietgym

KO Rd. 1

Brian Viloria

José Alfredo Zuñiga

KO Rd. 5

Zou Shiming

Luis de la Rosa

UD Rd. 10

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