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Radam G:

Wow! Conninghambone is always talking syet. And making up jive. That is understandable because cops are trained to bluff and make up syet and plant evidence.



Alexander, the not great, is going to look like syet, and make Amir, the not great Khan, look the same. This will be a fight that won't be going down as memorable.



Twenty or 30 years ago, this type jive bout would not have even been mentioned, less alone on television. Holla!

Reply

stormcentre:

"That's boksing! There are tons of fights that should have never happen. But fighters fight, even old, one-legged ones. And we cannot reverse or sanitize history. As Walter Cronkite said: "And that is the way it was!" Holla!"

Yep, SRL knew what he was getting himself into.

Reply

Radam G:

"SRL should have NEVER been in that fight. His last fight had been seven years earlier in New York against Terry Norris. After that fight, I walked into Leonard's dressing room. He looked beaten. His eyes were puffy. He looked a lot older than his 35 years.

"That's it, Randy," he said. "I had to take this fight to prove to myself whether or not I still have it. I don't. It's time to move on."

Well, the roar of the crowd was too great to resist. After watching Hector Camacho beat Roberto Duran by decision in June 1996, Leonard remarked that Camacho had been given a very "early Christmas gift." Naturally, Camacho returned the verbal fire, and soon the two were embroiled in a war of words. Leonard would be coming out of retirement.

The bout took place on March 1, 1997. It never should have taken place. In training, Leonard had torn his right calf muscle. He couldn't run. He couldn't jump rope. He could spar. He could barely stand. Yet, he--unwisely--took the fight.

Before coming out of the locker room, he took a novacaine injection into the muscle. Although it dulled the intense pain he was in, he barely could feel his leg underneath him. He fought Camacho on one leg.

Hector Camacho was a heckuva' fighter. On his best day, however, he was never going to beat Sugar Ray Leonard. But a one-legged Sugar Ray was another story.

It was painful for Leonard and it was painful for many to watch. Seeing him lose to Terry Norris was one thing, but hobbling around and stopped while being blasted on the ropes was another.

For the record, the loss was Leonard's third--and last. Following the fight, he retired for good. The loss to Camacho was his third. As far as I am concerned, he lost only twice--once to Norris and once to Roberto Duran. The June 1980 loss to Duran was his only loss while at the top of his game. On that day, Duran was also at the very top of his game. On that day, Duran would have given any welterweight in history a run for his money.

Five months later, when Leonard reversed the table, it was he who would have given any welterweight who ever lived fits.

The Camacho fight? It should never have happened.

-Randy G."

That's boksing! There are tons of fights that should have never happened. But fighters fight, even old, one-legged ones. And we cannot reverse or sanitize history. As Walter Cronkite said: "And that is the way it was!" Holla!

Reply

The Commish:

"He got knockdown in the bout with the late, great Camacho. Holla!"



SRL should have NEVER been in that fight. His last fight had been seven years earlier in New York against Terry Norris. After that fight, I walked into Leonard's dressing room. He looked beaten. His eyes were puffy. He looked a lot older than his 35 years.



"That's it, Randy," he said. "I had to take this fight to prove to myself whether or not I still have it. I don't. It's time to move on."



Well, the roar of the crowd was too great to resist. After watching Hector Camacho beat Roberto Duran by decision in June 1996, Leonard remarked that Camacho had been given a very "early Christmas gift." Naturally, Camacho returned the verbal fire, and soon the two were embroiled in a war of words. Leonard would be coming out of retirement.



The bout took place on March 1, 1997. It never should have taken place. In training, Leonard had torn his right calf muscle. He couldn't run. He couldn't jump rope. He could spar. He could barely stand. Yet, he--unwisely--took the fight.



Before coming out of the locker room, he took a novacaine injection into the muscle. Although it dulled the intense pain he was in, he barely could feel his leg underneath him. He fought Camacho on one leg.



Hector Camacho was a heckuva' fighter. On his best day, however, he was never going to beat Sugar Ray Leonard. But a one-legged Sugar Ray was another story.



It was painful for Leonard and it was painful for many to watch. Seeing him lose to Terry Norris was one thing, but hobbling around and stopped while being blasted on the ropes was another.



For the record, the loss was Leonard's third--and last. Following the fight, he retired for good. The loss to Camacho was his third. As far as I am concerned, he lost only twice--once to Norris and once to Roberto Duran. The June 1980 loss to Duran was his only loss while at the top of his game. On that day, Duran was also at the very top of his game. On that day, Duran would have given any welterweight in history a run for his money.



Five months later, when Leonard reversed the table, it was he who would have given any welterweight who ever lived fits.



The Camacho fight? It should never have happened.



-Randy G.

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stormcentre:

Man . . in this day and age.

If anyone is knocking or harshly judging SRL they need to have a good look at themselves and also what's going on in the sport.

SRL was an entertainer, brilliant boxer and one mean son of a witch (if you know what I mean).

The guy was a pure technician with almost all the moves, and anything he may not have had in comparison to Floyd Jr. he made up for in spades with balls and the willingness to fight almost anyone at anytime.

Just the fact(s) that he;

1) Had a stellar amateur career.

2) Fought in the 15 round champion match era

3) Fought Duran (meaningfully; before 1989) twice, with the 1st fight being an excellent display of grit and fighting (regardless of the loss). And the second one going down as one of the most famous rematch ("No Mas") bouts ever for various good reasons, including how tough and in his prime Duran was. The percentages on rematch success are not that flash and Leonard managed to turn it into gold.

4) Beat Duran again in 1989.

5) Fought Hearns a few times; once (for what has become a legendary fight) in 1981 for a TKO in the 14th round. And the second time a largely (by comparison to the 1981 fight) forgotten draw over 12 rounds.

6) Came out of retirement in 1987 (his previous fight was in 1984) and successfully fought Hagler - not at welterweight as his previous bouts had been but - at middleweight. Can you get a tougher comeback assignment? Remember how thoroughly confident Hagler was? I can still recall thinking how big-of-a-challenge such a comeback fight was even for Ray!

7) Then went onto, the year later in 1988, to blow out Donny Lalonde in 9 rounds, for the WBC light heavyweight title (whilst Leonard was still really, at heaviest, a super middleweight). (7 months after Lalonde (in 1989) Ray had the above-mentioned draw with Hearns, then approximately 6 months after that he had the above-mentioned 1989 (and his 3rd) bout with Duran. From there onwards Ray had almost a year off, and as a result of this and other factors he declined, and Terry Norris made that quite obvious in 1991).

8) Came into prominence, in 1979, by beating the great Wilfred Benitez - who was unbeaten and 38-0-1 going in with SRL - over 15 rounds.

9) Set for himself, took, and successfully achieved, challenges that were great - sometimes even monumental - even by critics standards.

Is enough for me.

I don't see anyone in this era, perhaps apart from Floyd (and then we have some issues of, stones, genuine challenges later in his career, and/or matchmaking), Calzaghe, Tszyu, Lennox Lewis, B-Hop and maybe a few others like Toney and Jones, that is anywhere near the same all round quality and ilk, as Sugar Ray Leonard.

That's just my 10c worth.

I would have loved to have seen, if Leonard stayed down at welterweight long enough, Chavez Sr. V Sugar Ray Leonard; both in their prime of course.

One can dream.

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brownsugar:

I can understand New yorkers wanting GGG vs Cotto.
Its a valid fight.
Cotto shouldn't have beat Martinez if he didn't want his name tossed into the middleweight lottery.

Also there's no such thing as a different league for natural middleweights and blown-up middleweights.
But I can't see Cotto beating Quillin, Jacobs, Arthur Abraham, Steiglitz, N'Dam, or Murray.

He couldn't get past Trout and barely beat Margarito as Margo was gaining momentum toward the end of their second fight.

He won't fight any of those guys anyway because he probably could only get a decent payday against Quillin and Jacobs and those guys are too big, strong and competent.

I think Cotto's move was a one-off so he could add a title to his legacy.
Canelo should be the only fight Cotto takes at a higher weight.

I actually expect him to confirm this in the near future.

I dont think Cotto vs GGG will ever happen.

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brownsugar:

"After tabulating the votes, here are the new Pound-for-Pound Ratings. You can agree with them, disagree with them, love them or hate them, but they're OURS, voted on by US.



If you don't love them, or totally disagree with them, or even hate them--but didn't cast your ballot, then you must stop whining. Immediately!



Or, you may file a complaint with Editor-in-Chief Michael Woods, and he will take your complaint before The Sweet Science Rating's Commission (of which he is Commissioner, Executive Director and sole arbitor).



Now, YOUR Ratings:



1. Floyd Mayweather

2. Manny Pacquiao

3. Guillermo Rigondeaux

4. Gennady Golovkin

5. Andre Ward

6. Wladimir Klitschko

7. Roman Gonzalez

8. Bernard Hopkins

9. Sergei Kovalev

10. Timothy Bradley



Others Receiving Votes: Juan Manuel Marquez; Carl Froch; Mikey Garcia; Danny Garcia; Nicholas Walters; Miguel Cotto; Anselmo Moreno; Vasyl Lomachenko; Canelo Alvarez; Terrence Crawford





For the second consecutive month, Andre Ward hung in at fifth place. He received several first, second and third place votes, but there were ballots where his name was omitted completely. Nicholas Walters, coming off a recent stoppage of Nonito Donaire, appeared among your votes for the first time.



I am going to hold off the next ballot until the end of November. During that month, at least four of the Top-10 fighters will see action (B-Hop, Kovalev, Klitschko and Pacquiao) as well as a few others who received votes (Lomaqchenko and Crawford).



Nice job, everybody (I'm glad there were no ties this month!).



-Randy G."




A very well balanced consensus from the best boxing fans in the world. Thanks Commish.

I dearly wish that I could argue with the final list but I just can't...at least not yet.

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deepwater2:

"I would rather watch paint dry than watch Mora against anyone.


Cotto should be stepping up to fight GGG for the linear title at mw.

If you have a title in a division there is no "he's little for the division" BS. You have a title then fight defending that title at the established weight.


How about Cotto vs GGG with Canelo vs Kirkland/Jacobs on the undercard of a PPV?

That is a solid matchup for sure."


I have a hard time watching Mora too. Wouldn't you like to see GGG adapt to the snake and put him out of there? I would. The snake always stinks out a fight and lasts until the end. Let's see GGG show up with a mop and bleach and clean up the stink.

I want GGG Cotto more then the rest. But I think he wants the big money Canelo fight first.

Quillin , Jacobs , Taylor will never fight GGG because of tsAH. They are starting a wrestling league or something on NBC I think.

I would love to see GGG vs Kirkland , but Kirkland has a history of being unstable. He pulls out of fights and invokes make believe injuries. He might crack up during training camp. Hopefully he is back with ann wolf full time and he can convince HBO to get on board.

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deepwater2:

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d29VsG35DQM"

AI should of showed up to practice. It instills work ethic and responsibility. It sure sounds funny having a ball player ramble on about " practice" but the truth is AI is out of basketball, broke, and can't even afford a cheeseburger. He should of payed more attention to practice.

Sugar Ray went to practice and that's why despite some losses at the end of a hall of fame career he has his looks, his money and he can afford as many cheeseburgers as he wants.

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Froggy:

"A fight that I wish had've happened was Holyfield - Tyson in 1991, pre-Indiana. Tyson pulled out due to a rib injury/pending legal issues. That would've been both of those guys in their relative prime, as opposed to the version that squared off in 96 & 97 (Holyfield was far more committed to the sport than Tyson then, who was going through the motions at best).



Lewis' KO of Tyson is on par with Camacho's of SRL. That Tyson had checked out of the sweet science long before that night."




I agree Domenic they would have been more competitive fights, although I think the results would have been the same ! Douglas had already destroyed Tyson's aura of invincibility !

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Domenic:

A fight that I wish had've happened was Holyfield - Tyson in 1991, pre-Indiana. Tyson pulled out due to a rib injury/pending legal issues. That would've been both of those guys in their relative prime, as opposed to the version that squared off in 96 & 97 (Holyfield was far more committed to the sport than Tyson then, who was going through the motions at best).

Lewis' KO of Tyson is on par with Camacho's of SRL. That Tyson had checked out of the sweet science long before that night.

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brownsugar:

"Lennox Lewis would not have had that gentile English manner, or accent, if enough sponsership money could have been raised in Kitchener Ontario, where Lewis was raised and where he learned how to box ! He won the gold medal for Canada and went to England, the country of his birth for the instant money ! I told anybody who would listen that he should have went to Philidelphia or Detroit and of course we all know now how Manny Steward did with Lewis after a shaky start to his career . Lewis never ducked Tyson, Tyson's people paid Lewis four million to step aside in, I think 1996 as was mentioned in a previous post ! Bowe always ducked Lewis, throwing his belt in the trash rather than face Lewis ! I never heard of Lewis avoiding Holyfield and would be very, very surprised if that were the case . Lewis was a great heavyweight who would have been even better if Manny would have had his way . Lewis much luckier than the Klitschko's in fighting in such a great era of heavyweights !"



I have heard many different versions of why they never fought. It was during a period in my life when I was out of the loop for a few years boxing- wise. But I know Holy wanted that fight and

For years and it never happened... I'll review the records and respond at a later time.



Thanks for your comments Froggy and Shadow.

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amayseng:

I would rather watch paint dry than watch Mora against anyone.





Cotto should be stepping up to fight GGG for the linear title at mw.



If you have a title in a division there is no "he's little for the division" BS. You have a title then fight defending that title at the established weight.





How about Cotto vs GGG with Canelo vs Kirkland/Jacobs on the undercard of a PPV?



That is a solid matchup for sure.

Reply

Froggy:

Lennox Lewis would not have had that gentile English manner, or accent, if enough sponsership money could have been raised in Kitchener Ontario, where Lewis was raised and where he learned how to box ! He won the gold medal for Canada and went to England, the country of his birth for the instant money ! I told anybody who would listen that he should have went to Philidelphia or Detroit and of course we all know now how Manny Steward did with Lewis after a shaky start to his career . Lewis never ducked Tyson, Tyson's people paid Lewis four million to step aside in, I think 1996 as was mentioned in a previous post ! Bowe always ducked Lewis, throwing his belt in the trash rather than face Lewis ! I never heard of Lewis avoiding Holyfield and would be very, very surprised if that were the case . Lewis was a great heavyweight who would have been even better if Manny would have had his way . Lewis much luckier than the Klitschko's in fighting in such a great era of heavyweights !

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The Shadow:

"I've always said that Lewis avoided Holyfield until he was past his best. The same with Tyson.
It took me years to finally appreciate Lewis...but not on the basis of his long overdue fight with the real deal."


I wish I could say he avoided Tyson but he didn't. He got paid not to fight Tyson back in 1996 and sued Frank Bruno in 1995 when he fought Tyson since he was the mandatory.

He wanted that fight badly after seeing Buster Douglas beat Tyson.

"I already know how to beat him now," Lewis said of Douglas. "You just showed me how to beat him. And I know I'm better than you."

He was trying to fight Holyfield in the early '90s as well. Speaking of which, I was never that impressed with Holyfield.

I know many disagree but I think he got badly outclassed by an old Larry Holmes and he was a filthy cheater on many, many levels. He makes B-Hop and Andre Ward look like choir boys.

If anyone was at the right place at the right time it was him. Being objective, his best win is the 2nd Riddick Bowe fight.

Beyond his recuperative abilities and the way he would let his hands go, he never really impressed me that much.

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brownsugar:

I've always said that Lewis avoided Holyfield until he was past his best. The same with Tyson.
It took me years to finally appreciate Lewis...but not on the basis of his long overdue fight with the real deal.

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brownsugar:

Guerrero vs JMM is a good match.... These guys were made for each other.
Two blown up welters with a lot to give.
A minimum of movement
A maximum of trading
Mexican style.
JMM will have met his match in the "who can take it" department.
Please make it happen

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Carmine Cas:

"Talking about a bit of fantasy boxing. Check out how Kevin Hart is satirizing Money May and Uncle Roger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbC00T-3eS4. Holla!"

"You know I got suga!" LOL. Holla!

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Radam G:

Talking about a bit of fantasy boxing. Check out how Kevin Hart is satirizing Money May and Uncle Roger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbC00T-3eS4. Holla!

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Carmine Cas:

"Wasn't this fight made and scraped already? I don't like any fight involving Devon Alexander so I will root for Khan. Could be a snoozer."

Yeah same time last year I think :p. But Khan foolishly sat out because he wanted to wait for Mayweather in May.

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Radam G:

"That Camacho fight is completely blocked from my memory. I know I saw it but I have blocked every second out. You could be right about those sparring knockdowns and the amateur knockdowns. My first memories of Ray are from the '76 O Games. I wasn't even the Roast yet. Sparring knockdowns don't count. You talking about practice. What are we talking about, practice? When the lights were bright and the cameras were rolling the Sugarman was always ready. Don't talk to me about practice!"

Great! Okay! He got knocked down and eight counts at least five times in amateur national and international competition. He got knocked down nine times and knockout out in the pros. Holla!

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Radam G:

The IBO has moved from a fringe alphabet-$anctioning organization to one of the BIG BOYS. Thanks to the constant noting of HBO, Showtime, ESPN and major newspapers and popular cyberspace boksing universes LOUDLY announcing that the uber popular 3g and Doc Wlad K were IBO champions.

Just as what the uber popular middleweight world champion Marvelous Marvin Hagler and heavyweight world Larry Holmes did with the television powers of ABC Wide World of Sports, CBS Sports Spectacular and NBC Boxing to bring acceptance of the corrupted Robert Lee's 1980$ founded IBF by being recognized champions, 3g and Doc Wlad have done for the IBO.

Now its looking as if number #1 ranked lBO contender Juan Manuel Marquez will be getting his shot to become a five-division champion. Holla!

Reply

the Roast:

Bingo!

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The Shadow:

"That Camacho fight is completely blocked from my memory. I know I saw it but I have blocked every second out. You could be right about those sparring knockdowns and the amateur knockdowns. My first memories of Ray are from the '76 O Games. I wasn't even the Roast yet. Sparring knockdowns don't count. You talking about practice. What are we talking about, practice? When the lights were bright and the cameras were rolling the Sugarman was always ready. Don't talk to me about practice!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d29VsG35DQM

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the Roast:

Nice write up, I have only one thing to add. Lennox Lewis was a great Champion but he is very lucky he fought Holyfield at the end of Evander's run. If the fight or fights had taken place when both were younger and Holy was near his peak, Lennox would have been knocked the F out. Right place right time for Lewis.

Reply

the Roast:

"He got knockdown in the bout with the late, great Camacho. Holla!"

That Camacho fight is completely blocked from my memory. I know I saw it but I have blocked every second out. You could be right about those sparring knockdowns and the amateur knockdowns. My first memories of Ray are from the '76 O Games. I wasn't even the Roast yet. Sparring knockdowns don't count. You talking about practice. What are we talking about, practice? When the lights were bright and the cameras were rolling the Sugarman was always ready. Don't talk to me about practice!

Reply

the Roast:

Wasn't this fight made and scraped already? I don't like any fight involving Devon Alexander so I will root for Khan. Could be a snoozer.

Reply

Carmine Cas:

I think one of the biggest question is does Alexander possess enough power to hurt Khan?

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brownsugar:

A fighter with limited movement against Khan? Guerrero must think he can get lucky.

Reply

brownsugar:

The heavyweight division may be in its period of dormancy... But like a blade of grass bursting through 6 inches of concrete. It shall return.
Maybe not to its previous place of prominence.... Because we have acquired more appreciation of the lighter weight classes due the divisions lackluster state of affairs.
But mark my word....its coming back.

The division is still under the vise-like grip of Dr Steelhammer. However the next generation will soon emerge from its long season of gestation.
Its new manifestation will erase the former malaise of the heavyweight division and propel it into an era of anticipation, excitement and competitiveness.

There are always periods of lulls in boxing ...but it always comes back to its former glory.

Reply

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