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the Roast:

Same opinion from me. It all depends on Perez. If he is ready to rumble it will be a great fight. If he is just gonna waltz around Jennings will out hustle him.

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the Roast:

Did I or did I not read on these very pages of TSS that Stormcentre and Kostya Tszyu are one and the same? I am pretty sure the Shadow was a part of the discussion that night. Am I right or am I remembering this wrong?

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the Roast:

We have talked about this before. I was worried for my man Ray before this fight. Hagler had KOed Hearns in 3 and Mugabi in the 11th. Took their best shots and mowed them down. I saw Hagler interviewed on Wide World of Sports the weekend before the fight. He was wearing that "WAR" baseball hat, he shook his fist at the camera and said, "coming at you Leonard!" I was thinking KO 1.
In that same interview Marvin said "I believe I can outbox Leonard if I want to."
That was his undoing. He thought he could win any way he wanted. Then Ray conned him and stole the fight.
I'm gonna have to watch the fight again.

Reply

brownsugar:

"In an interview Marvelous Marvin Hagler did with me for the MSG Network right before he went into serious negotiations for the fight against Leonard, Hagler disclosed to me just how positive he was he would beat Leonard.

"I would say that the only advantage Leonard has over me is hand speed," Hagler admitted. "But he's not a better boxer, he won't be able to hurt me, he won't be able to take my shots and he certainly isn't going to outpunch me or outfight me on the inside. There is nothing Ray can do to win this fight."

When we had gone off the air, Hagler told me, "Ray is asking for all kinds of concessions to make the fight."

"Like what?" I asked.

"Like bigger gloves. Like a bigger ring. Like 12 rounds instead of 15." Then he looked at me and said, "Ray thinks all of that will matter. It won't. I will knock him out the first time I land hard."

That was Haqgler's mistake, thinking he could take Leonard right out. So, he gave into bigger gloves, a bigger ring and a cut from 15 to 12 rounds. His complacent attitude, along with a complacent fight style which allowed Leonard to dominate and win the first six rounds, cost Hagler the fight.

I spent time with Hagler in 2013 at the IBHOF Induction Weekend. The loss to Leonard still irks him.

While he refused to admit it, I have a feeling he would have started a lot faster in round one--and stayed at that pace--had he known what the final outcome would be by fighting at a slower, more complacent and relaxed pace.

Leonard won the negotiations and with them, won the fight.

-Randy G."


I've heard something like this before. But coming from a living witness makes it that much more compelling. Just one or two variations in the preset contractual agreement and Hagler could have won that fight. Hagler wanted the fight so bad he allowed Leonard to create the perfect environment with which to obtain victory. Wow... No wonder he left the country.

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brownsugar:

"O

The Docusen -- Filipinos -- are my favorite too. Buddy and Max Baer were grand. Does Marvelous Marvin Hagler count with his brother Robbie Sims? The Penalosa brothers -- Gerry and Dodie. The Donaire(y) brothers -- Nonito and Glenn. The Spinks brothers -- Leon "Deon" and Michael "Spinks Jinx." Dirrell brothers -- Andre and Anthony. The Ayala brothers -- Mike and Tony. The Garcia brother -- Robert and Mikey. And that is about it for me. Holla!"




How about Mayweather Senior and Uncle Roger?



You know....walking encyclopedia RG killed this topic for me I'm out.

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brownsugar:

I watched all of the videos and read all of the comments regarding this topic....

Its an interesting argument but Personally I think that besides the ethnic similarities... ( both Tszyu and GGG, like Provodnikov and Shumenov have slightly Mongolian features,)......but that's where the similarities end.

I read somewhere that Tszyu's dad introduced him to boxing because he was hyperactive as a child.
His hyperactivity is also evident in his fighting style ....and style is something Tszyu had no shortage of.

Fighting out of a crouch ...hands low while darting in and out in addition to feignting regularly to set up his power shots .. Tszyu could put on a spectacular show against some opponents.

Its a shame he never fought Del la Hoya, Mayweather, or Mosely.....Then we could have better gaged where he stood amongst the other elite fighters.

Its not totally his fault because Oscar and Shane became full welterweights before Tszyu was ready to accept or offer a challenge and Arum blocked Mayweathers challenge by proclaiming that Mayweather couldnt draw flies...was unknown....didnt bring enough to the table ...yada yada yada.

But you have to give Tszyu credit for beating the best of the rest. He was stellar against lesser ( but still creditable) foes like Zab Judah, Sharmba Mitchell, and Ben Tackle. ...and Tszyu also took on a lot of old former Champions like a 38 year old Chavez... a faded Juan Laporte, a used up Roger Mayweather and Livingstone Bramble.

And its important to note that after 2001, Tszyu only fought once a year in 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 when his management made the fateful decision to turn down Mayweather to accept the less difficult but more lucrative challenge of Ricky Hatton instead. And we know how that ended.

We can forgive Kostya Tszyu because after roughly 12 years in the game he was finished for all intents and purposes.

Its important to note that Pac and Floyd are nearing 20 years in the sport with Wlad K not too far behind.

I watched the amateur vid between Tszyu and Forrest. He looked good... But i would recommend watching Tszyu's 1-4 loss against a Cuban named Juan Hernandez to really get a fix on his deficiencies.

I also watched his fight with a so-called "life taker" named Hector Lopez.... I had to look up who Hector was since he didnt leave that large of an historical footprint.

Apparently Hector was a blown up bantamweight with decent amateur credentials who had the distinction of losing to Sammy Fuentes and Randal Bailey.... To place this in context please note that Tszyu KO'd Fuentes in one round.

I believe everything about GGG is on a whole other level than his Russian counterpart.
Tszyu won 259 fights as an amateur and lost to the Cuban School.

In contrast GGG took Cubans to school in an amateur career that spanned approximately 350 fights.

As Mortcola stated earlier GGG has a more fluid two fisted offence where Tszyu frequently found himself in wild desperate exchanges against fighters like Mitchell ( the first fight) Phillips and Judah.

GGG is far more efficient the way he calmly walks down his opponents. Using a varied attack while simultaneously remaining elusive and defensively sound.
Holding your hands up and tucking the chin is better than playing russian-roulette with your reflexes.

GGG eventually paralyses the opposition. Its like taking all the opponents pawns, knights and bishops before making the final assault on the king.

GGG's dominance is so complete his opponents stop fighting back and are stuck in full reverse before the end comes.

Although GGG's story has barely begun to be written .... In a years time there won't be any more comparisons between him and KT....

By the time he's done at middleweight the discussion will revolve around "Who would win? Hagler or GGG?"

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Radam G:

"Fine examples, Radam, especially coming off the top of your head.

The Docusens, like so many people in New Orleans, had a blended ethnicity. Most reports list them as half-Filipino and half-Creole. I remember that there was some brouhaha about whether they should be classified as "colored." Mixed-race matches were still taboo in some states and the "colored" designation would have constricted their opportunities.

I'm glad we have moved beyond that nonsense."


Whole or mixed Filipino. We are strong it. And refuse that half jive. The Docusens were DOUBLE -- whole Filipino and whole Creole. And New Orleans has a fairly large Filipino population. And always have had one. The ignorance of people around that way back in da day considered us "Native Americans" or Creole.

See when Louisiana was a part or France and Texas was part of Mexico, the Spaniards would bring Filipinos to the New World to be slaves and/or fighters against the Mexican and Native American resistance. We would jump ship and settled in the Bayous of Louisiana, Texas and Mississippi.

A lot of times the three Docusen brothers couldn't fight on cards dumb@$$ racists labeled Pinoys/Filipinos as "Coloreds." Holla!

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Domenic:

Vitaliti Klitschko was a late substitute for Kirk Johnson more than a decade ago in a fight that was then viewed as a borderline ESPN level bout, but is now among the most historically significant heavyweight title fights in the last 35 years. It was aired on regular HBO. This won't be that, but I commend both guys for demonstrating great courage in taking a losable fight. After all, a fighter can lose, but have his stature elevated in defeat. It's great for the sport. Kudos.

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amayseng:

Like I said make no mistake about it, GGG will have his smile on, his poker face, his calm throughout the promotion and into the ring but one thing you will not see is the tenacious spirit and fire within his soul from the loss of his dad.

I honestly feel sorry for Geale, his is a good dude and carries himself and the sport well.

He is going to take a hellacious beating.

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The Commish:

Do you guys really think Chisora faked a broken hand? I have a feeling promoter Frank Warren would have been all over him from the start asking to see X-rays or proof. I have no doubt that Chisora is hurt. I hear he was looking good in training camp...can't believe Fury's goofy talk, rants and tirades scared him off.

And good for Fury in being able to get a replacement.

To Ustinov...thanks for stepping up!

-Randy G.

Reply

Radam G:

Wow! YUP! C-Al's delusional. And has been saying that he is going to "shock the world twice this year and beat Mayweather next year." OMFG! He has not shocked the world once. The Siberian Rocky whupped his arse.

C-Al aka da BobFather's "possible Great White Hope on legal PEDs" is going to get destroyed in Macau.

He has already ignited mad fire in Da Manny by saying that he is going to be the bigger fighter and he may knock out Da Manny. And woulda, coulda, shoulda knocked out tSR if not for the injured eye.

C-Al and his pundits ought to STFU! He is going into hostile territory. And will not be able to handle been on that BIG stage. And tar babying him with the moniker "possible Great White Hope on legal PEDs" coming to Macau to whup Da Manny is worst tar-babying than James Jeffries was done over a century and four years ago against "Unforgivable Blackness" Jack Johnson. At least Jeffries was at home with the crowd cheering for him.

C-Al -- with his big-arse mouth -- will have against himself a hostile-cheering crowd for Da Manny to KHTFO! Nothing ever changes. And Da Manny is going to knock C-Al da double fudge out. Holla!

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The Commish:

"No D, cant improvise, when he did fight in Europe proffessionally outside his comfort zone, he looked mediocre!"

Who is "D" who can't improvise? Daniel as in Daniel Geale?

-Randy G.

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Radam G:

"Is it a possibility that Floyd's fighters have been caught cheating because they are his Ginny pigs to see if they can get passed these tests before Floyd himself uses??"

YUP! And don't think that quacks and $ & oahes -- remindful of Memo and Alex Ariza -- haven't applied to be on TMT's payroll.

Money May even suggested that Alex Ariza come to work for TMT.

However the undercover $ & coaches of TMT have fallen like flies, because particular guinea pigs are caught. Remember Micky Bey being caught with a ratio of 30-to-1. And Money May was popped twice before the corrupted NSAC moved the ratio from 4-to-1 up to 6-to-1. Holla!

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stormcentre:

I don't see anyone getting told to leave for getting caught juicing.

And in answer to your question; yes.

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The Commish:

My "little" Long Island--and all 7 1/2 million of us who live here--is back on the map again, thanks to Chris Algieri.

Dr. Algieri will be a guest on my SiriusXM show this Friday evening between 6-8pm (ET). Listen in to hear what he has to say about what I expect will be his second consecutive major upset come Nov. 22.

-Randy G.

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amayseng:

Is it a possibility that Floyd's fighters have been caught cheating because they are his Ginny pigs to see if they can get passed these tests before Floyd himself uses??

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stormcentre:

:)

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The Commish:

I think Wach is now training your favorite heavyweight, Travis Walker, Bernie, and Povetkin and Chagaev have been hired as his main sparring partners. The rumor is, Wladimir Klitschko wants one more fight this year--after taking care of Kubrat Pulev next month--and he's looking to face your guy, the legendary Travis Walker.

Nice to have you back.

-Randy G.

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deepwater2:

"I haven't heard Mayweather use the phrase "Olympic style testing." I've only heard him say "the test" or "random blood and urine.""



The question is , why doesn't Floyd get tested randomly 365 24/7?



Donaire seems to be the only fighter in the world that allows a lab to test him 365 24/7whether he is in training for a fight or not.



Floyd can do it , why doesn't he?

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The Commish:

I had intended to take that day off and head to the Barclay's Center for a night of boxing. I think I'll take my wife to an early dinner, instead, and watch the card on TV.

-Randy G.

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Bernie Campbell:

No D, cant improvise, when he did fight in Europe proffessionally outside his comfort zone, he looked mediocre!

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deepwater2:

"Spot on.



To be able to say the fight is clean and/or catch them is easy (in my opinion, and I don't want offend anyone here).



All that's required is a contract that explicitly stipulates;



1) Truly independent blood testing (by an independently nominated and unknown {to the fighters, their managers and promoters} laboratory) on a weekly basis.



2) Testing for all known and suspected agents.



3) No confidentiality clauses.



4) Truly independent urine testing (by an independently nominated and unknown {to the fighters, their managers and promoters} laboratory) in addition to the blood testing, but never without it on a weekly basis. Each fighter is then given a box of harmless but different colored placebos (pill) that have a unique chemical signature. The fighter or team is advised electronically (could be by SMS) on which pill to take for what day, and the urine sample is then taken, and either kept by the fighter, given to the collector if they're present, and/or produced when required.



This way no-one else's urine can be used regardless of when the collection takes place.





Done deal."




Thanks. You hit it out of the park.

Year round testing with the protocol you just listed is the solution to the problem.

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Bernie Campbell:

too much hype1 that philly thing! Chagaev and Povetkin would take care of business hands down! wheres Wach lately?

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The Commish:

I got one wrong...the same one as Radam. I didn't know the "Benicia Boy" was John Heenan. My age got me through a lot of the questions (I actually knew Sonji Roi, Aileen Eaton, Nova Spinks and Vickie LaMotta).

-Randy G.

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amayseng:

Good discussion, great info and knowledge



Storm has the educated background for sure!

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The Commish:

Exactly, Storm. If the pre-Mago Perez shows up, any heavyweight in the world is gonna' have his hands full. But, until that bell rings, we are not going to know which Perez to expect.

-Randy G.

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Radam G:

NO! BJ is more an American dope and a hyped-up hope. Hehehe! Sorry! But boksing is real. And he is not the real deal. Holla!

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stormcentre:

If Perez is on his "A" game and not still psychologically impacted from the Mago incident Jennings will be KO'd or beaten up.

The fluidity of Perez' punches, his power and his footwork, will be too much for Jennings; particularly if Perez gets inside.

Still, it's hard to know which Perez will show up.

Reply

Radam G:

I'm the typical boxer who is facetious. And can always agree to disagree. Because I have always gone after boxers on dat syet and beat their arses.

Boxing is largely a mental game. A mind game. A chess game. You know that. Roids and PEDs put stress on the users. And in boxing, if you are in stress, you a mess. You need to be a cool, calm, collected operator. And the cheat syet of roids and PEDs messes up the rhythm and rhyme of your electrical system.

And without that perfect storm of electrical dynamics, you are shortening out. Because it is always mind over matter. And the mind needs to be in perfect working condition -- no bootlegged electrical working. Being slightly off will put one in a perfect shortening out of an arse whuppin.' Roids and PEDs bootleg your syet. And the bodee doesn't play dat for long.

You know what happens when electrical wires fall on to the wet surface. The human's whole bodeee has its own electrical system that is in perfect harmony and balance with the internal bodee wires not dropping onto the wet.

Just as Apple and the late Steve Jobs did for communication, and people didn't know and some still don't know. There are catchers of roids and PEDs users. And dat syet has minimum and placedo effect in boxing. Because boxing is brain over brawn. The love of juice, will be make one in boxing a tasty goose. And as lame as a moose. Holla!

Reply

stormcentre:

I personally don’t think that Olympic style testing is a phrase and/or something to be held in high regard.

The Olympics have an absolutely unenviable reputation in turning a blind eye and also performance enhancing substance testing

Reply
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