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oubobcat:

"Good comments OuBobcat.

However I won't hold my breath that anything will be done.

Not in the least as what you propose;

a) Is akin to the courts holding lawyers accountable for their indiscretions, including the fact that lawyers are obliged to notify the courts if/when they feel their clients' affidavits are misleading.

b) Would ensure the big business end of (boxing) town has no way to exert influence over outcomes, fighters and rival promoters and/or businessmen.

I agree that the cards/judging you spoke (wrote?) of was simply abominable and wrong.

There are reasons that we humans don't fix systems that are systemically dysfunctional and repairable, and they usually trace back to plutocracy and/or an evolved familiarity with the "system" which includes the ability to manipulate it and make it work for those that seek control.

Merry Xmas."


I do agree there are reasons the system has not been changed. And some are certainly political.

But its broken. We all know that. So if we all know that, it should be time to do something about it even if the powers that be may not necessarily want to see change.

Grading the judges in a simple system such as I proposed would be a start. As a matter of fact, we can take it out of the commissions hands. As fans, we can get change if our voices are loud enough. If some of us get together and start tracking this, change can occur.

For example, if we see a pattern of a judge grading "F" continually getting fights, start a social media campaign to get that judge out. Publish the scorecards that were in question and ask why they keep getting assignments. It was the voice of the fans mind you that did get CJ Ross out after some questionable scorecards were turned in after high profile fights.

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oubobcat:

Sukhotskiy was no where near a top 10 Light Heavyweight. Its a serious question whether he'd even crack the top 50 in the division.

Sukhotskiy was in survival mode for the first four rounds. Stevenson was cautious early despite all his talk of an early KO and by round four I had fears that this could drag out to a boring 12 round decision. But in the 5th to Sukhotskiy's credit, he did open up a bit. It got him knocked out of course but spared us having to watch a 12 round sparring session.

Back when Hopkins-Kovalev was made, I stated it was a brilliant business move by Hopkins. As long as he did not get obliterated by Kovalev, he'd always have the Stevenson fight for the lineal light heavyweight title to fall back on. It was a no lose situation for Hopkins.

Now I think we see the Stevenson-Hopkins fight get made. With Stevenson tuning down Pascal, who since moved to Kovalev, there are no marketable foes left for him at light heavyweight. Well, with one exception and that is Bernard Hopkins. Stevenson clearly wants to be selective in the opponents he fights. This is why he ducked both Kovalev and Pascal. But a 50 year old Hopkins who is coming off being dominated by Kovalev and who can generate a nice payday for Stevenson, well that is just the fight Stevenson and Haymon desire.

I will state this right now as well. Hopkins beats Stevenson. Stevenson is a counter puncher, period. That's what he does. We saw it in the two fights this year against Fonfara and Sukhotskiy. If the opponent does not lead, there will be dead spots. Once the opponent leads, the left follows. Stevenson fights in the same pattern. Always. Its how Fonfara timed him and put him down in their fight.

And guess who is a master, even at an advanced age, of spotting an opponents weakness or pattern and finding a way to take advantage of it. Well its Hopkins. Hopkins can lull Stevenson into his kind of fight. Hopkins can pot shot and counter the lefts that Stevenson throws in the same pattern all night. It may not be a scintillating fight and it may resemble Hopkins fight with Tavoris Cloud. But its a fight Hopkins can win and dominate.

I look for Stevenson-Hopkins later this year and predict Hopkins will be lineal Light Heavyweight Champion at 50. And will call it a career then on his terms and as lineal champion.

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oubobcat:

Dirrell is working his way back. I got the impression early that he wanted to go rounds here and treated this at times like a glorified sparring session. He is of course still shaking off some rust from almost five years of inactivity. It wasn't the most appealing fight to watch and maybe for his sake would have been better off television. It was what it was frankly.

I guess this was technically a step up for him but that's not saying a lot either.The Froch rematch is not going to happen. We all know that, so does Dirrell. But Froch may have to vacate the IBF belt depending on his course and that is what Haymon is ultimately banking on to get Dirrell a shot.

Dirrell's future depends on Froch. If Froch does not fight DeGale and vacates, we could see Dirrell-DeGale later in 2015. If Froch fights DeGale and wins, then Dirrell sits on the ranking until Froch vacates knowing Froch won't fight him. That means more Derek Edwards type fights for the next year. If DeGale wins, the future is a little more cloudy for Dirrell as who knows if DeGale would jump right into a Dirrell fight. Depending on how the Froch fight played out, DeGale could get a big money rematch or go another direction as well. We'd certainly see some maneuvering from Haymon too.

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stormcentre:

Has anybody at this forum seen this guy fight.

Does anybody at this forum that has seen this guy fight, believe that he is going to make his dreams come true?

Just asking . . . not hating

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stormcentre:

Adonis Stevenson took on Dmitriy Sukhotskiy, but Sukhotskiy didn't really look like he wanted to be in there, especially after he tasted that first clean-connecting left cross from Adonis.

Haymon's cookie cutter is working just fine D2.

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stormcentre:

"Thanks man.

The real Rick Ross was the kingpin but he is out of the system now spreading the message of education,speaks at schools and he calls out most of the hip hop guys on top as frauds that are ruining kids."


Yes, from the aforementioned documentary, I understood/respected the kingpin bit - that bit was very, very clear.

Certainly a dude not to be ffffucked with.

If my memory serves me correctly, he also did considerable time for his kingpin ways didn't he?

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stormcentre:

"Thanks man.

The real Rick Ross was the kingpin but he is out of the system now spreading the message of education,speaks at schools and he calls out most of the hip hop guys on top as frauds that are ruining kids."


Yes, from the aforementioned documentary, I understood/respected the kingpin bit - that bit was very, very clear.

Certainly a dud not to be ffffucked with.

If my memory serves me correctly, he also did considerable time for his kingpin ways didn't he?

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deepwater2:

"Whoa.



I was going to say "that's deep" D2.



But then who am I to tell you what's deep?



After all, you're "Deepwater2"?



You have the 007 licence on being deep and killing for it !!!



RR: All I know is that the real "Rick Ross" starred in a documentary called something like "how to make a million dollars selling drugs" that I saw, and the dude (in his heyday) looked powerful and heavy enough for me to consider not crossing him; no matter what he said/did.



Not sure about his logic about Jay Z's music, but then don't tell him I said that.



Actually . . . I'm not even sure about Jay Z's music - he doesn't even sound like he's sure of it either.



Merry Xmas."




Thanks man.



The real Rick Ross was the kingpin but he is out of the system now spreading the message of education,speaks at schools and he calls out most of the hip hop guys on top as frauds that are ruining kids.

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stormcentre:

I like Andre.

Excellent skills and ability.

Hard to get his conduct and performance against Abraham out of my mind when I consider Andre's ultimate aspirations though.

Hopefully Andre has psychologically improved since then.

Until the competition is stepped up I guess we won't know.

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stormcentre:

Whoa.

I was going to say "that's deep" D2.

But then who am I to tell you what's deep?

After all, you're "Deepwater2"?

You have the 007 licence on being deep and killing for it !!!

RR: All I know is that the real "Rick Ross" starred in a documentary called something like "how to make a million dollars selling drugs" that I saw, and the dude (in his heyday) looked powerful and heavy enough for me to consider not crossing him; no matter what he said/did.

Not sure about his logic about Jay Z's music, but then don't tell him I said that.

Actually . . . I'm not even sure about Jay Z's music - he doesn't even sound like he's sure of it either.

Merry Xmas.

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deepwater2:

Skills pay the bills but all it takes is a punch to end the fight. Pac has the style to overcome Floyd's Philly crab especially at his advanced age. Can it happen?Yes. But..We won't know until they actually fight. That is why the world wants to see the fight.



Puffy said its all about the Benjamins in the 90's but Freeway Rick Ross(the real Rick Ross not that fat rapper) says better things in 2014:



"I was selling drugs for the CIA and I didn't know it. The same thing might be happening with today's rappers." Freeway Rick



Freeway Rick Ross is calling on Jay Z to "do something positive for these lost teenagers." Know why? Because the reformed drug kingpin - who's now using his story as an example to scare teens straight - explains that rappers, like Jay Z, are responsible for dealing ignorance through their music.



"Jay is getting paid by the man to spread negative messages."



When I asked Freeway Rick about Jay Z's deal with Barneys New York, here's what he had to say:



"Jay Z is the one sending kids to the store to spend big bucks on material things. What Jay Z raps about these kids can't afford to buy. If you went to college, you'll be lucky to make 80-100K a year. That's if you even get a job. These kids are going to sell drugs, steal or sell their bodies for the material stuff Jay and other rappers are talking about.



These kids don't read. They believe everything these rappers and the media tells them. I had one kid ask me why I call myself Rick Ross.



I don't hate Jay Z, but I wish he'll do something positive for these lost teenagers. Jay is making a lot of money so he could bring positive workshops to the ghetto. Bring the lawyers and doctors to the ghetto to speak to these kids. I'm truly sorry for what I have done to my people and society and if Jay was a drug dealer in his past he should feel the same. Jay told everybody to stop drinking Cristal and everybody listened to him. Why doesn't he use that power to tell our teenagers to stop living so dark? He can't. Know why? Because Jay is getting paid by the man to spread negative messages."

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Shoulder Roll Defense:

"OMFG! But the haters -- especially Fam May -- uses both of Da Manny child hood knckouts to gauge him. So I guess all is fair in love and war.



You always find alibis because you grew up that way. Mainly from your elders telling you the myths about Sugar Ray Robinson. So it is natural for you create diversions in your mind about Money May. You cannot see in flaws in him, because the mind always tricks and dˇ˘ks the eyes and the brains when you are in love of dis and playa hating dat.



Talking about protected pug? OMFG! Sugar Ray Robinson was the most protected pug of all times. He never fought the best pugs of his era. He ducked more than Money May.



Da Manny is faster and a better boxer and hitter than Money May, Thurman and T-Craw, but you cannot fathom that, because of your inner-ethnic filters of myths about athletic superiority. But that is cool! You gotta believe in something to get you through.



In Cali, as a kid, I had people hating on me because an Asian wasn't supposed to be so athletic in boxing, Amerkano football, Track and Field and basketball. I'm a myth arsekicker. And so is Da Manny.



Since Da Manny is out-of-group to you, you cannot dare see that he is better than your in-group fighters. You will never admit to it, but that it is okay. It is a part of the life of mankind and his prejudices and ethnic-and-race filters. Holla!"




Skills pay the bills and Floyd is on another level in comparison to Manny. Manny's greatest assets inside the ring are his hand and foot speed and power at the lower weight divisions. Manny loses against Floyd because Floyd can neutralize all of Manny's strengths. Floyd has fought fighter's as fast or faster than him and adjusted. I can't really say the same for Manny. Skill wise, Manny is primarily a 1-2 combination puncher. When was the last time he flashed an effective hook? Worse case scenario, Mayweather beats Pac 8 rounds to 4. Easy work for Mayweather, I hope the fight gets made.



On another note, just like Jack Johnson, Sugar Ray Robinson fought for the dough (money) first and foremost. Johnson and Ray Robinson calculated the risk/reward factor before signing the contract and entering the ring. I can't hate on any boxer for doing that because boxing is cold game and a smart fighter will always try to maximize their earning potential. Money May has illustrated the blueprint on how to make serious money as a prize fighter. One of the fundamental rules that would have behooved Manny to follow is "cut out the middle man" as much as possible. The best thing Mayweather did as far as earning potential is concerned was buying his way out of his Top Rank contract. Like Puff Daddy said in the 90's, "it's all about the Benjamins!"

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deepwater2:

TsAH has no shame putting on a joke of a main event like this. Stevenson proclaims himself as the man because know one else will.



Beterbiev was fun to watch.

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stormcentre:

Holla at RG in the howz, and for putting it down real good.

Wonder what KB, who is by no means incapable, will shoot back with?

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Radam G:

""Great perspective. Boxing is a long way from being as racist as Money May and Ben Thompson claim. Maybe the knuckleheads who don't have power are racists, but they don't have influence and cannot make da play to control the pay.



"Let us holla at some history of the reality of the actuality.



From 1905 to 1915, considering today's weak dollar and world inflation, "Unforgivable Blackness" Jack Johnson was making Money May's type of money and was the top paid athlete.



During World War II, the top-paid athlete -- with his endorsement -- was Joe Louis.



During the Vietnam War, the top paid athlete was Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali, who bragged how he could pay the salaries of thousands of troop and buy a couple "M-14 jets," and still not be broke."



That's some distorted reality. Money does not erase the racism he (Johnson) endured, you forgot to mention for years he and the other black fighters were not ALLOWED to fight for the actual heavyweight championship. They had the colored championship. The money does not erase the fact that the Jeffries refused to fight him, or other fighters would fight, let alone spar with black fighters, nor does it erase the fact that because of his victories riots ensued, and the call for the Great White Hope was needed because he didn't fall in line, and he had no problem throwing that in peoples faces. Joe Louis fared alittle better because of his defeat of Schmeling was seen as good for America over Germany. Louis also "knew his position" and was no where near the brass Johnson. Even with that; just because it wasn't documented doesn't mean Louis did experience boxing racism in "1930s" good ole US of A.

Same with Ali, might not be as well documented, but 1960's it definitely was not all good, money or no money. We all know what happened when he stepped out of line. Money May can say what ever he wants, could be right; could be wrong; but I think he is dealing with more bias than racism.

On another note Stevenson and Sukhotskiy just started."




Absolutely nothing I posted is distorted reality. Boxing is and always has been racist but less racist than other sports and entertainment. I've said umpteen times about how no white champ would fight Johnson until Canadian great Tommy Burns gave him a shot.



Besides, you are wrong about Jeffries never fought and/or sparred with black fighters. Holla at the great "Black Prince" Peter Jackson that Jeffries beat. And Jeffries regularly sparred with black pugs. There are even films in existent of it.







I knew that somebody would come at me with dat "GOTCHA" syet. I've not forgot to mention anything. I'm solid as a rock, has the memory by heart of an elephant, and will call a spade a spade, won't hide in the shade and don't have a part in imaginary or real racism that is going on between anybody.



And money always matters. This is why it is call PRIZEFIGHTING. And Money May might come to his senses and stop hiding and being the humbug behind that curtain of his racism. Holla!

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King Beef:

"Great perspective. Boxing is a long way from being as racist as Money May and Ben Thompson claim. Maybe the knuckleheads who don't have power are racists, but they don't have influence and cannot make da play to control the pay.

"Let us holla at some history of the reality of the actuality.

From 1905 to 1915, considering today's weak dollar and world inflation, "Unforgivable Blackness" Jack Johnson was making Money May's type of money and was the top paid athlete.

During World War II, the top-paid athlete -- with his endorsement -- was Joe Louis.

During the Vietnam War, the top paid athlete was Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali, who bragged how he could pay the salaries of thousands of troop and buy a couple "M-14 jets," and still not be broke."

That's some distorted reality. Money does not erase the racism he (Johnson) endured, you forgot to mention for years he and the other black fighters were not ALLOWED to fight for the actual heavyweight championship. They had the colored championship. The money does not erase the fact that the Jeffries refused to fight him, or other fighters would fight, let alone spar with black fighters, nor does it erase the fact that because of his victories riots ensued, and the call for the Great White Hope was needed because he didn't fall in line, and he had no problem throwing that in peoples faces. Joe Louis fared alittle better because of his defeat of Schmeling was seen as good for America over Germany. Louis also "knew his position" and was no where near the brass Johnson. Even with that; just because it wasn't documented doesn't mean Louis did experience boxing racism in "1930s" good ole US of A.
Same with Ali, might not be as well documented, but 1960's it definitely was not all good, money or no money. We all know what happened when he stepped out of line. Money May can say what ever he wants, could be right; could be wrong; but I think he is dealing with more bias than racism.
On another note Stevenson and Sukhotskiy just started.

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Radam G:

Haymaker Haye should go ahead and kayo tabby tub Tarver. I would love to see Tarver going down and still running his mouth about how a star that he is. Dude is a legend in his own mind. Holla!

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stormcentre:

It's an intriguing match-up because both guys appear - or have previously appeared - to possess the style and tools to undo the other's typical approach to winning fights.

Pacquaio represents the high work-rate that Floyd hates (because it threatens his late round rallies and stamina reserves), packaged up in a fast southpaw stance that could present issues for Floyd's most loved defensive moves.

Pacquiao's defence is somewhat of an unknown quantity though, particularly against fast guys that can time him, but that liability may be offset by the fact that Floyd has noticeable issues with fast southpaws; even if they're not as active for the entire 12 rounds as Manny usually is.

Mayweather presents as Pacquaio's equal if not superior in speed, skills, and power; but not work-rate and risk taking. Plus (Mayweather) he has the knowhow and ability to control distance and fire perfect lead shots and/or counters in on Pacquaio's reckless attacks that almost always are accomplished with defensive liabilities that Pacquaio gets away with because most of his opponents can't equal his speed and intensity.

Floyd's ability to deal with a southpaw like Pacquaio who on face value appears to be able to;

a) Present all the issues that the other lefties have that have troubled Floyd - whilst also filling the gaps that made those other lefties fall short and wilt under pressure.

b) Bring pressure and an intensity to Floyd, that Floyd himself is perhaps unfamiliar and/or uncomfortable with - or possibly even concerned about.

Is an unknown quantity.

Particularly at this stage of Floyd's career and personal, public, and legal life.

I can see Floyd baiting Pacquaio, controlling the distance and just zapping him with sweet and fast left jabs and/or right cross leads whenever Pacquaio tries to rush in with those "same-same" cookie cutter attacks . . . that almost always involve the Pacquaio right jab searching for space to shoot the left cross up and through, as he steps out and over to his opponent's left side.

But then, conversely, I can also see Floyd - if his size, limited punch output and other attributes can't control the tempo of the fight - growing uncomfortable with the pace, pressure and tenacity of Pacquaio, and languishing on the ropes too much . . allowing Pacquaio to maul him.

Perhaps not now, but certainly during Manny's rise through the ranks and during his devastation of common opponents and/or those Floyd was said to duck; I don't think there has ever been a possible opponent for Floyd, that he has genuinely (at one stage) considered could knock him out, as much as Pacquaio.

Put that psychological consideration together with the fact that Floyd's mid games leading into any future fight probably won't have much effect on Pacquaio, and - even aside from how (comparatively) fragile Floyd will psychologically be now with all his legal, personal and public problems - you have a psychological situation, that for the first time in a long time, might not favour Floyd as much as it normally does - if at all.

Remember, Pacquaio is used to big fights; even if he is not used to bigger, stronger and faster, or equally fast, opponents; like Floyd.

I doubt Pacquaio is entirely familiar with guys like Floyd whom are the closest thing there is to the complete package, with; speed, defence, agility, experience, and also proven 12 round physical/mental stamina gained through top-level championship experience - all combined with enough power to make Pacquaio reset and/or open up for more.

But it doesn't end there though.

Because (regardless of the weight and layoff controversies) Floyd completely dominated Pacquaio's arch enemy; Marquez.

Plus (and even Marquez - who has fought both guys - also says this) Floyd knows how to control the fight, exchange when he wants, and thus implement his game-plan.

Marquez believes that Floyd would beat Pacquaio easily.

That said, Floyd (in many ways) did Marquez a favour (ask if you are unsure of what I mean); whereas Marquez really dislikes Pacquaio - so Marquez' viewpoints there may be tainted.

Now take all that and also consider that out of Pacquaio's last 7 fights Floyd would more than likely have beaten them all too. Also, aside from Bradley, a good case could probably be made for Floyd really busting up a few of them more than Pacquaio did; such as Algieri and Rios.

I'm not saying he would lose, but I don't know how Pacquaio would handle the Maidana that Floyd fought (at that weight) with Marcos' unconventional punches and relentless aggression - those guys are usually very tough to look good and clearly win against.

That said Pacquaio - during his most controversial career stage and when he was considered by some to be using PEDs - seriously blew out Margarito (probably {as with Cotto} at a lower weight than Antonio was regularly fighting at then), and adding to it all was the fact that Floyd was then widely considered to have avoided, and even temporarily retired because of, Margarito.

In fact Pacquaio has destroyed several opponents that Floyd has taken to 12 round decisions.

Whether or not that's due to Manny fighting the common opponents at catch-weights and/or the fact that Floyd broke some of the common opponent's unbeaten streaks first; is as intriguing as it is up for debate.

What's not up for debate is that Pacquaio comes to fight, take risks, and looks for the knockout; whereas Floyd does not and will often win safely even when it is clear he could easily step up the pace and get a KO - such as with Marquez.

Oscar, Roach, Arum, Pacquaio, many of Floyd's defeated opponents, and also thousands more, would all love to see Floyd fight Pacquaio and lose.

And that's just the situation and environment that Floyd usually flourishes in.

Gotta love it don't you?

For me, I think I need to know some if not all of the below points;

a) That the Pacquaio V Mayweather fight will really happen.

b) What weight the fight will take place at.

c) What weight both guys are likely to enter the ring at on fight night.

d) Whose training Floyd and in the corner for the fight; Roger, Floyd Sr. someone else?

e) What the percentage split between fighters is and/or who is dictating the contractual terms.

f) Who is doing the PED tests.

g) What kind of testing is in place (ie; genuinely random. . with no cut off dates??).

h) Official promotional involvement (ie; to what extent is GBP, TR and any other entity involved).

i) Official broadcaster/network involvement (ie; to what extent is ShoTime, HBO and any other entity involved).

Before I favour one over the other.

Still, don't let that halt the debate and discussion.

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stormcentre:

Good comments OuBobcat.

However I won't hold my breath that anything will be done.

Not in the least as what you propose;

a) Is akin to the courts holding lawyers accountable for their indiscretions, including the fact that lawyers are obliged to notify the courts if/when they feel their clients' affidavits are misleading.

b) Would ensure the big business end of (boxing) town has no way to exert influence over outcomes, fighters and rival promoters and/or businessmen.

I agree that the cards/judging you spoke (wrote?) of was simply abominable and wrong.

There are reasons that we humans don't fix systems that are systemically dysfunctional and repairable, and they usually trace back to plutocracy and/or an evolved familiarity with the "system" which includes the ability to manipulate it and make it work for those that seek control.

Merry Xmas.

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stormcentre:

Good comments OuBobcat.

However I won't hold my breath that anything will be done.

Not in the least as what you propose;

a) Is akin to the courts holding lawyers accountable for their indiscretions, including the fact that lawyers are obliged to notify the courts if/when they feel their clients' affidavits are misleading.

b) Would ensure the big business end of (boxing) town has no way to exert influence of outcomes.

I agree that the cards/judging you spoke (wrote?) of was simply abominable and wrong.

There are reasons that we humans don't fix systems that are systemically dysfunctional and repairable, and they usually trace back to plutocracy and/or an evolved familiarity with the "system" which includes the ability to manipulate it and make it work for those that seek control.

Merry Xmas.

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Radam G:

"Sanders fight: He was still a kid. Using that fight to gauge Floyd is like me using the fight when Pac was a kid and got knocked out by a body shot. Not a very accurate assessment to analyze either fighter currently.

Chop Chop fight: Floyd got clipped pretty good by Corley and chose to primarily stand in the pocket with him. The ref missed a couple of Mayweather knockdowns of Corley that were ruled slips. I have to look at the fight again. Chop Chop was game but was out classed, period!

Judah fight: Judah got out the gates fast, but Floyd adjusted and broke Judah down mentally and physically.

Pac is a very good fighter that has been protected and had the luxury of fighting many of his fights at catch weights. He receives a stateside boxing lesson if he steps into the ring with Mayweather or Crawford and Thurman puts him to sleep. Holla!"


OMFG! But the haters -- especially Fam May -- uses both of Da Manny childhood knckouts to gauge him. So I guess all is fair in love and war.

You always find alibis because you grew up that way. Mainly from your elders telling you the myths about Sugar Ray Robinson. So it is natural for you create diversions in your mind about Money May. You cannot see in flaws in him, because the mind always tricks and dˇ˘ks the eyes and the brains when you are in love of dis and playa hating dat.

Talking about protected pug? OMFG! Sugar Ray Robinson was the most protected pug of all times. He never fought the best pugs of his era. He ducked more than Money May.

Da Manny is faster and a better boxer and hitter than Money May, Thurman and T-Craw, but you cannot fathom that, because of your inner-ethnic filters of myths about athletic superiority. But that is cool! You gotta believe in something to get you through.

In Cali, as a kid, I had people hating on me because an Asian wasn't supposed to be so athletic in boxing, Amerkano football, Track and Field and basketball. I'm a myth arsekicker. And so is Da Manny.

Since Da Manny is out-of-group to you, you cannot dare see that he is better than your in-group fighters. You will never admit to it, but that it is okay. It is a part of the life of mankind and his prejudices and ethnic-and-race filters. Holla!

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stormcentre:

Some good points made above by all.

It's going to be interesting to see who both guys (Pacquaio and Mayweather) fight next, and if it's not each other or Khan, then intrigued to see who he fights next also.

If either of them choses anyone that's perceived to be "soft" the public backlash will be entertaining.

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Froggy:

"I'm being sarcastic. Holla!"

That's what I was afraid of, one can only hope !

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Radam G:

"Radam G, you said he's gonna fall in the round you call, he going to fight him, he going to fight him !!??"

I'm being sarcastic. Holla!

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oubobcat:

Look, this needs to get fixed once and for all. The judging last weekend was hideous in some cases to say the least. I would really like to hear some explanations from these judges as to how they came to their scores in some of these fights.

Did anyone watch the Tyson Cave-Oscar Excandon fight? That was by far the worst scores of the three controversial fights from last weekend. Cave dominated the fight. Escandon was off balance and unable to get punches off all night. When he did throw, he missed often. Cave boxed circles around him. It was an easy fight to score. If you were generous, and I mean generous, Escandon won three rounds. I had it 118-110 for Cave.

But Raul Caiz scored it 117-111 for Escandon. That is a preposterous card to say the least. And Tony Crebs was not much better at 115-113 for Escandon. There is no possible way that Cave could have only won three and five rounds respectively in that fight. No way...I'd really like to hear the round by round explanation from those judges.

Of course, that wasn't the only fight from this weekend. Julie Lederman turned in a horrible card in the Bradley-Chaves fight scoring it for Chaves by a wide margin. That fight turned into a ridiculous draw in a fight that there is no doubt that Bradley easily won. And Mauricio Herrera should have got the nod against Benavidez. At the very least, the margins of those cards were inexplicably wide in the favor of Benavidez.

So how do we fix this. Well, my first suggestion probably won't get much steam but I'll suggest it anyway. Its simple, just take five fifth graders, sit them ringside for a fight and ask them at the end who won. I bet they get it right more often than not and would have had the correct result in the three controversial fights from the weekend.

Okay that realistically won't fly with commissions. So here is what we do. Its time to grade the judges.

Its simple, really. When I was a senior in high school, we had the option of taking one class pass/fail. The grade you received was not "A, B, C, D or F" it was pass or fail. So if you received a "D", on your transcripts all that was shown was "pass."

Grading the judges should be just like that system. Scoring a fight is subjective and we are not always going to agree. And sometimes maybe a card looks bad but is not screaming out loud bad. It won't fail and still passes though we may not completely agree with the scoring.

However Julie Lederman's and Raul Caiz's cards fail. It does not take a panel of experts to see that. Those scores stand out and they need to held accountable for such bad scores. I am not trying to pick on these judges and they weren't the only ones from this weekend that failed. But they were the worst, no doubt.

Basically, a judge's card either passes or fails. We want judges in this sport that receive passing grades consistently. Its not that hard to receive such grades either as again we are failing cards that scream out loud bad.

I understand not everyone is perfect and fails will happen. We all have bad days. But it should be few and far between. Okay, really few and far between. Just a couple and red flag should go up quickly. Get that judge out of the sport.

The judges need to be held accountable. They are impacting these fighters lives in so. many ways. They need to be graded, plain and simple. I bet too if they knew the microscope was on them we'd start seeing better scores. Think about it...at your job, if no accountability then the pressure is off and focus is not there. We are all human, its natural. Why worry and stress if you don't need to? The same thing here...if they know they are being graded, well the focus is going to increase.

One last thought on judging...lets take away a little of the ambiguity and make it once and for all only clean effective punching. Period. End of discussion. No ring generalship,etc. A simple criteria that we all should be able to agree on.

Reply

Shoulder Roll Defense:

""High guard" my arse! He goes earmuffing, and is exposed to body snatching and uppercut catching. The southpaws who put it on him in the pros were -- first:



Reggie Sanders, who confused da syet outta Money May and cut his eye and top lip. Pops Joy May was in jail at that time for being a pusher man, and was as mad as a gorilla bytch.



He cussed Uncle Jeff and Uncle Roger out and told them not to ever let "Lil' fight another southpaw" until he got out of jail. And when he got out of jail, he let Money May spar with the southpaw "Pittsburgh Kid," who also put a beat down on Money May.



Second: DeMarcus Corey knocked Money May down into the ropes, but the blind ref missed it. And didn't call it. DC let Money May get his head with taunts and put downs. Thus, Money May won.



Third: The world saw the hotheaded, immature Super Zab Judah do da do on Money May. But Money May taunting and mocking Judah caused Judah to lose it all by losing his head.



Da Manny is from a different culture. Money May can do nothing to get into Da Manny's head or effect with stateside bullsyet fro the U.S. mainland.



If it would be fight, during the promoting times, Money May would not put his on hands Da Manny, as Money May did Vicious-less Victor Ortiz. Because then it would not be a squared jungle Bout.



Da Manny would beat da smithereens out of Money May on the spot, while Da Manny's stealth security guards of former SEALS Teams, CIA, DIA, Delta Force and Pinoy and other Asian Ninja forces beat da hebejeebeez out of Money May's roids-using big uglies.



Pac haters can deal with make-believe and fantasy all they like. But it is the American way of the locked out and can't be. About one of their ratchet, cruel-to-reality-of-the-actuality heros, they believe bulljive that they cannot even see. And they cannot see it, because of in-love major blindness. Love of Money May's triple jive, makes his fanfaronades and groupies blind to all.



Money May will fall in the round I call. Hehehe! He is on short time, and knows it. And he's scared s**tless of Da Manny. Holla!"




Sanders fight: He was still a kid. Using that fight to gauge Floyd is like me using the fight when Pac was a kid and got knocked out by a body shot. Not a very accurate assessment to analyze either fighter currently.



Chop Chop fight: Floyd got clipped pretty good by Corley and chose to primarily stand in the pocket with him. The ref missed a couple of Mayweather knockdowns of Corley that were ruled slips. I have to look at the fight again. Chop Chop was game but was out classed, period!



Judah fight: Judah got out the gates fast, but Floyd adjusted and broke Judah down mentally and physically.



Pac is a very good fighter that has been protected and had the luxury of fighting many of his fights at catch weights. He receives a stateside boxing lesson if he steps into the ring with Mayweather or Crawford and Thurman puts him to sleep. Holla!

Reply

Froggy:

Radam G, you said he's gonna fall in the round you call, he going to fight him, he going to fight him !!??

Reply

Radam G:

"You are primarily referring to the Judah fight. Floyd's glove touched the canvas and a knock down should have been called. However, with the exception of the first four rounds, Floyd dominated the fight.

This brings me to another point. In that fight and against other southpaws, Floyd doesn't really use the Philly Shell/shoulder roll, except in spots. He is a great defensive fighter and realizes that the southpaw angle does not allow him to roll a "left cross" as he would a "right cross" against a orthodox fighter. Lately, Floyd fights a southpaw by keeping his lead hand (jab hand) long so he can parry the jab and shoot his jab. When all else fails he uses a high guard defense and does a lot of slipping/dipping when cornered. I don't just watch boxing, I'm a student of the game. I have no dog in the fight, Floyd isn't paying my bills. He whips Manny relatively easy."


"High guard" my arse! He goes earmuffing, and is exposed to body snatching and uppercut catching. The southpaws who put it on him in the pros were -- first:

Reggie Sanders, who confused da syet outta Money May and cut his eye and top lip. Pops Joy May was in jail at that time for being a pusher man, and was as mad as a gorilla bytch.

He cussed Uncle Jeff and Uncle Roger out and told them not to ever let "Lil' fight another southpaw" until he got out of jail. And when he got out of jail, he let Money May spar with the southpaw "Pittsburgh Kid," who also put a beat down on Money May.

Second: DeMarcus Corey knocked Money May down into the ropes, but the blind ref missed it. And didn't call it. DC let Money May get his head with taunts and put downs. Thus, Money May won.

Third: The world saw the hotheaded, immature Super Zab Judah do da do on Money May. But Money May taunting and mocking Judah caused Judah to lose it all by losing his head.

Da Manny is from a different culture. Money May can do nothing to get into Da Manny's head or effect with stateside bullsyet fro the U.S. mainland.

If it would be fight, during the promoting times, Money May would not put his on hands Da Manny, as Money May did Vicious-less Victor Ortiz. Because then it would not be a squared jungle Bout.

Da Manny would beat da smithereens out of Money May on the spot, while Da Manny's stealth security guards of former SEALS Teams, CIA, DIA, Delta Force and Pinoy and other Asian Ninja forces beat da hebejeebeez out of Money May's roids-using big uglies.

Pac haters can deal with make-believe and fantasy all they like. But it is the American way of the locked out and can't be. About one of their ratchet, cruel-to-reality-of-the-actuality heros, they believe bulljive that they cannot even see. And they cannot see it, because of in-love major blindness. Love of Money May's triple jive, makes his fanfaronades and groupies blind to all.

Money May will fall in the round I call. Hehehe! He is on short time, and knows it. And he's scared s**tless of Da Manny. Holla!

Reply

michigan400:

"Floyd is not the same fighter he was when he masterminded the perfect title heist against Genaro Hernandez , and conducted a texbook reverse-engineering class against Diego Corrales.
In contrast Pac was still impressive against the likes of Rios, Bradley and Algieri.

But Pac is significantly more challenged when a fighter can control lateral movement and distance.
Floyd can still do both of those things very well.

Make it happen in may."


Agree on all points!! Well said.

Reply

Shoulder Roll Defense:

"Floyd is not the same fighter he was when he masterminded the perfect title heist against Genaro Hernandez , and conducted a texbook reverse-engineering class against Diego Corrales.

In contrast Pac was still impressive against the likes of Rios, Bradley and Algieri.



But Pac is significantly more challenged when a fighter can control lateral movement and distance.

Floyd can still do both of those things very well.



Make it happen in may."




I agree B-Sug. In my opinion Manny would be less of a risk than Thurman or even Khan stylistically and I think Money knows that, which is why we might actually get to see the fight.

Reply

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